Claire Danes

25:52Like that was something I wanted to remain involved with. And then, yeah, and I think I was, I got a little, I did get a little dizzy and overwhelmed at a certain point and was being given a lot of opportunity and didn't quite know how to channel that, focus it. You know, I didn't have a filter yet that I kind of needed to establish in a safer place like, you know, a campus. And I was a little lonely. You know, I mean, initially I was so relieved to be jettisoned out of the hell of junior high and high school. Was it a hell? Yeah. I think it was going to get less hellish because I was moving through high school and I think kids just get increasingly less desperate and cruel.

26:48So you were getting bullied? Yeah. I had a really hard time in middle school. What do you think that bullying was about or do you remember? Well, there was a few things. I mean, I went to a few different schools for funny reasons. It's not like I was always living in the same place. But, you know, I had a teacher that my mom wasn't that thrilled by or I don't know. There was always a reason to try out a different school. So I was often the new girl and sort of conspicuous and a little targeted for that reason. But I also was just like very sensitive to the injustices that were often on display and couldn't help but, I don't know, kind of take the bait.

27:36And I don't know, the politics made me insane, the social politics. I wasn't strictly bullied, but I was vulnerable. And I was also, I really liked learning, you know, I was nerdy and kind of didn't get the memo that you're supposed to pretend that you're not so engaged and curious at a certain point as a girl. Right, right. So my hand remained very, like, high in the air. You know, ooh, ooh, ooh. Yeah. And I, yeah, I think I got punished for that. Anyone but Claire? Yeah, please. And I think I was legit annoying, too. I mean, I think that was fair. Yeah. But I don't know. And yeah, there was always like a girl.

28:23I changed three. I went to three different junior high schools and there was the same prototype, archetype, archetypical girl who was crazy smart and very troubled and decided that I was somebody that they were going to, you know, make very unhappy. Yeah. Yeah. And they just kept like materializing. I wish I had known. There's so many things you wish that you knew you could go back in time and tell the younger you. And I would just, the one thing I would tell the younger me is when people are really mean to you or bullying you, it's because they're miserable. I think that would have helped me somewhat.

29:01I mean, I think I kind of knew that. I didn't know that. But it didn't. I didn't know. It wasn't much of a tonic. Yeah. Like you're still stuck. And once that dynamic is in play, you're sort of screwed because you're just in a cage. There's nowhere to go. And yeah, it's funny. My son now is 10 and so he's starting to enter that point. And he is he's such a wonderful, tender, clever goofball like he's. But and I see all of his kind of vulnerability. And but it's funny because a mom from the school texted me about her son being aware of some bullying that was happening in his grade. And but Cyrus is just sort of like oblivious or or just not very moved by it, you know.

29:53And her son was. And I was like, oh, gosh, I was your son. And I'm so grateful that my son isn't. It's a kind of amazing defense to just not really care. Once you have kids, the notion that someone would not be nice to them hurts more than anything else in the world. It's brutal. Although my four-year-old son, Rowan, he could go the bully route. Like I'm, I'm terrified. Oh, he's got talent. He's got talent. Yeah, no, but it's like, I'm terrified that my older son might be bullied. And I'm terrified that my younger son might be the bully. Right. And so it's, um, it's good to have one of each. Most people think that having one of each means a boy and a girl.

30:38It's like, no, no, I have a bully and I have someone who is bullied. Yeah. We've done it both. But I'm glad they were born in that order because it would be really problematic if it was reversed. Um, and I think we just worry, you know, for what I, you know, it doesn't take much to. yeah yeah yeah i'm one of six kids and the last one uh justin was born um i think my mom might have been 42 or 43 and this is the early 70s and it's not as common yeah yeah i still keep saying to justin i you know i i'm glad you know i'm glad he's here yeah i really am i'm glad he's here now i can't imagine uh him not being here but uh he he showed up so late and um what's the age difference between you guys oh my god uh i am let's see my mother had a child a year oh my god because this was the 60s and we're irish catholic so i think neil's born in 61 luke's born in 62 i'm born in 63 kate's born in 64 what slight gap then jane's born in 67 and then some you know then there's a long gap and then i think justin shows up in the early 70s and so there's a 10 year gap between Justin and I.

31:46And I remembered someone saying, what a wonderful, later on, it was about five, 10 years ago, someone said to me in front of my father, isn't it wonderful that your youngest was born, your youngest brother was born so much later because all of you could help nurture and raise him. And I said, what are you talking about? It's like they threw a brand new tire into the ape cage and we just tore him apart. We really did. We really just did start throwing him around it toughened him up yeah it toughened him up but no there was not a lot of careful nurturing of this poor guy my mom is one of five um and uh i just just again the deepest deepest admiration and respect for for those women i mean i can't imagine my mother was once told by some soviet women before you know before the wall fell but she was at some event and there were some women from the soviet union there and they said in the soviet union you would be awarded a medal for providing this many children.

32:43Like seriously, a serious medal. Oh my gosh. There's like an order of, you know, whatever Melanchenko that you get if you've had because you've delivered that many children for Mother Russia. Yeah. And I thought, you know, I should probably go Mother's Day. I should get my mother. They should bring back medals. Like, yeah. They should. I hope you got something good on Mother's Day. I did. I did. Because you know what? Father's Day is a total crock. We get nothing. No one believes in it. No, no. And you know what? But I think it's dismissed. It's dismissed. And I think with good reason, because I look at I look at everything my wife does.

33:18And I think that she deserves a medal. She deserves all these great things. She deserves like those epaulettes that they had in the British Navy. She does and a sash and she deserves a sword. All these great things for doing so much. And then, yeah, I think I deserve nothing. I have to say, my husband is is pretty spectacular. I mean, he really, he's the cook. He makes the doctor's appointments. Oh, wow. Yeah. No, he takes on a kind of disproportionate amount of the parental duties. So, big shout out to Hugh Dancy, who's pretty wonderful. I'll have that taken out. Okay. I don't know. Why would I do that?

34:02What a spiteful person I am. We're talking about a show that centers around divorce? No. Yeah, exactly. Well, with that in mind, when I was starting to watch Fleishman, it's interesting because I had a friend, a really good friend who's also a massive fan of yours. And at first, when you first start watching this show, and again, I don't want to give anything too much away, but it's a couple that's going through a very painful period. And then you as the wife, you sort of disappear from the scene. Yeah, and she's really unsympathetic initially. I mean, to put it mildly. Very unsympathetic. And you don't realize that you're seeing the marriage strictly through a lens.

34:41And the lens you're seeing it through, which is so interesting, is Jesse Eisenberg plays your husband. And of course, Jesse is so good at looking at being put upon. And I mean, he looks put upon in real life. And a lovely guy, by the way. Yeah, he really is. He is one of the sweetest guys. but he has such a good way of looking like he's just got the world on his shoulders. That's a really good point, you know, because it's true, he can flip so easily from, you know, a kind of puppy to, you know, this kind of wounded, you know, on his back person to a real villain, you know? Well, I mean, you look at the social network and you see that he's obviously a terrific actor who's able to access all of that.

35:32But in this, and I thought this show has exposed, either exposed my sexism or tricked me into being maybe more sexist than I already am. But I'm really looking at it and I'm thinking, I so sympathize with this guy, this poor guy, and he's trying to take care of these kids. And where is she? And not being at all sympathetic to your character. And then there's this thing, And again, I don't want to give anything away, but there's this scene that where your character, Rachel, goes to this yoga retreat and these emotions are being drawn out of you in this scene. And there's this kind of whale breakdown that you have that came through the TV set and slapped me around in a way that is, this is a compliment.

36:25I don't like being, I'm not into that, by the way. Claire, not into that. I'm sick of that rumor that I like being slapped about. A whipping occasionally. But no, I felt like you had reached through the TV and it was so. And then, of course, I start talking to my friends who are also watching the show and we're all talking about that scene. And I think that scene is the most striking moment I had in television in memory. It just was like, oh, my God, it completely turned me around on your character in a moment. But also I walked away from that thinking, I do not understand. I know that there are great actors in the world.

37:12I do not know how Claire Dames was able to do that. I do not know how you were able to do that scene. Well, I mean, again, it was really it was written, you know, and I could I recognized it. I find it unimaginable that you would go to set and they would put a camera on you and they would say action and that you'd be able to. I'm basically asking. Well, so in advance, I do this kind of this mental work and then I have to totally let that go and then just be in a visceral space. So I have to be very clear. And, you know, and it was funny when I went to college and didn't act for about three years, I was caught in the wrong gear.

37:51like I forgot that it was largely an intuitive process also because I had just been writing essays for a long time um so I had to kind of return to the more in connection to the work which is the more important one right um but so both are at play and really when the camera's rolling you have to just you know be in a non-thinking space in an emotive space um but I I see myself, hear myself not like taking, maybe it sounds like I'm not taking credit for my contributions, but I can't do that so freely if I don't feel held by the people that I'm working with. And John and Val, who were the directors on the episodes that I was doing the heavy lifting in, you know, they were they were just so right, so connected and present and kind.

38:50And they didn't make me do things a million times, you know, like they understood that some scenes were a little scarier and trickier than others. And so they were very careful and how they set it up. And, you know, a lot of them, we only needed to do one take. I was going to say, if someone, if a director after the take that you did said, if anyone said, okay, that was great, let's do four more. Yeah. And I've also worked with wonderful directors who do work that way. And, you know, I don't only begrudge them that. You know, like sometimes there is value in seeing what happens. But I was glad for their sense of economy.

39:27It got really in vogue, the improvising, especially in comedies. And a lot of improvising and people being encouraged. And I think I was on a set once and the director was literally saying things like, all right, try another one where you are the murderer. Now try one where you're the murder victim. Like you're changing massive things. Do you know what I mean? Right. Yeah. But what I do understand what you're saying, something that resonates with me, because I always try to look for, is there any common ground here I can have with Claire? and there might be a psychological reason for this, or it just might be my lack of ability.

40:06I don't know what it is, but people were telling me in my early 20s, you've got something, you should be in front of people. And I was feeling that, but I couldn't see what it was. And I was like, you know, it's not standup. I think it's improv. And then one person said, it might help your, I started doing improv a lot. And someone said, you should take a serious acting class. So I took one downtown, and I don't remember which one it was, but it was like a Stella Adler serious class. And I went in and signed up and paid. I think it was about 23 or 24. And there was a, they asked me at one point to do a scene where I get up with another woman and I tell her how much I love her and how much she means to me and how heartbroken I am.

40:50And I said, I can do this if it is in the purpose of being funny. Like if there's a joke to it, I can actually, that would be the only way that I could act. I think in any kind of, was if it ends, if it's going in the purpose of a joke. Right. Or if it ends in a. That's so interesting. I know. And now you're my therapist. But I'm serious. I have done sketches where I'm looking at myself saying, I think I'm kind of acting here. But it's because I know that it's in the service of a joke. And to me, that's my wooden barrel. I can go over Niagara Falls, but I need to be in my wooden barrel of it's comedy.

41:33Whereas what you're doing, you're going over the falls. There is no barrel. It's so naked. And I find that terrifying. I'm in awe of it, but I just find it terrifying. Yeah, well, I would find comedy terrifying. But I think I - But you're very funny. You are really funny. Thank you. No, you are. You are very, I mean, I've always could tell that you're being a very funny, light, silly person at a party. And that's something a lot of people don't know about you. Yeah, I guess. But I doubt that that's true. I mean, I think you've decided that along the way. And I don't believe it. I'm just saying.

42:16I also think you're a very good fighter. I've decided a bunch of things about you. You're also an undersea explorer, Claire Danes. You didn't know that about yourself, did you? No, you haven't. But you are. It is funny because you've you've you've carved out so many roles and iconic roles where, you know, as I said, whether it's in Homeland or even starting out with my so-called life where it's you're dealing with complicated stuff. And then in person, you have this lightness that's so much fun, which I'm sure you brought to, you know, you bring to other things, too. But you're so it's amazing.

42:50You have a wide bandwidth, I think. Yeah, I hope so. Yeah, no, I would. I'm always eager to do something a little less intense. But I do have kind of a good time with the intensity. And also, I don't know, people keep throwing it my way. um but uh i wouldn't change anything in your career it'd be great if i talked you into something you know no i've you need a sitcom well i've said that i want to do a comedy for a long time but um yeah no it's uh i'm not it doesn't seem to land i've heard that you like a good party you like to throw a costume party i you know i had this which terrifies me by the way also i do not like uh wearing a costume i had the best bachelorette pad for for a while um I had a loft on Worcester because I went to LA for about four years and always knew I wanted to come back to New York my parents stayed in LA but I I came back and it didn't occur to me that I could live anywhere other than where I had lived as a kid so I was just kind of recreating that and and bought this loft on uh Worcester Street and it was It was just this open space, and it was a great place to throw costume parties.

44:07I had a swing. My parents had a swing. They had a swing. They had a trampoline. They had a trapeze. I mean, my mom also ran a toddler school, but this was even before she had the... Right. And they're not circus people. They're not circus people. Recreational. They're very playful people, I guess. Sure, yeah. That's nice. So I was kind of appropriating that, and it was effective. Now, of course, you and I got married and we were going to have kids. So we now live in a very sensible family home. It's the total inverse. It's this kind of long and narrow townhouse with many stairs and stuff. But there isn't this like, it's not a dance party venue.

44:46Everything changes when you have to baby proof. Yes. My wife and I have this little house in the country that I got in another lifetime years ago that I've hung on to. And I remember when our daughter was born, Nev, screwing in the brackets for the baby gates. What an iconic moment that was for me in my life. And then I remembered a couple of years ago, noticing they were still there and that both our kids are kind of grown and unscrewing them. And I got weepy. Because we were like, this era is over. I'm headed to my grave. And then I got very Irish and dark. The one consolation is that when I get very old, I know my wife's going to have to put in gates for me to keep me in place.

45:32Yes, they will come back in a slightly different context. But yeah, no, I had a lot of great parties and I miss them. Easter sometimes falls on my birthday and my 30th birthday happened to be one of those years. And Hugh went as a severed ear. there's some he went to like boarding school and I guess was just inhaled these biblical stories you know it was just like swimming in the water so he was a severed not a man with a severed ear he was a severed ear it was very impressive that's when you knew you were in love kind of yes and he convinced me that I should go as the 30 coins of silver that Judas was paid to betray Oh, my God.

46:20But it was really fun. My brother went as the black jelly bean that nobody wants. I don't know. It was great. There were a lot of Playboy bunnies. It was secular and religious. Yes. But people are, you know, once you, the great thing about a costume party in New York, too, is that they're stuck there because people party hop in New York, especially in their 20s. And once they're there, you know, they're. Once you're a severed ear, you're not going anywhere else. You're not going anywhere. So the numbers build and it starts to come to a boil. And people, you know, they're not, they're a little, they're a little unhinged.

46:57You know, they do things, they're not themselves exactly. Well, I will tell you this just as, and I only know this from being a sketch player, again, not an actor. But when I am, when I do put on a costume for work, whenever I've, whatever that is, I want to be that. It has a funny power. It has a childish thing, but I was in a sketch once and we were shooting it outside and I'm dressed as a policeman. And then I wandered away as the policeman and I was telling people to move it along. And then suddenly I have like a 19th century Irish accent. Like, move it along now. What is this asshole doing?

47:29I had a nightstick. Make way for ducklings. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I was just like, well, it's the power of, you know, I had to do something recently. I think we're in Norway and they dressed me up in a ridiculous fisherman's costume. and I asked for a hook because, and I have a pipe. And the minute you give me a pipe, it's bits left and right. And, but it's, it's just childish. It's child's play, but it's really fun. It's the best. It's what I do professionally. Yeah. So it's what we do. It is a whole other level with you as is clear. I can't say it enough. Again, I'm just going to say it as your old uncle who had you on the show years and years and years ago, you've always been very funny and classy and polite and then crazy talented.

48:17So I'm just very, you know, it's not earned, but I'm proud of you. Oh, no, that's so nice. I am proud. I'm just like, I'm like, I knew her when she was a child. Yeah. And people say, sit down, old man. But it is, it's a thrill to see you. Oh, well, I'm sweating, but thank you. It's very hard. to receive that level of appreciation, but I'm grateful for it. So thank you. Okay. Well, if I can make you sweat or in any way uncomfortable. Yeah. I'm a little pinned here. Claire, such a joy to have you here and see you again. It was really nice to see you too. Very cool. Thank you. Thank you.

49:10Let's do a little review the reviewers. This is where I go to Apple Podcasts and I pull a review and we talk about it and see how good people are doing at reviewing our show. Yeah. Okay. Well, this is where we get to judge their judgment of us. Essentially. Although this one is a bit more of a, what would I call it? Like I got an ax to grind. Oh, good. Yeah. All right. This is from Shmoopy. It's five-star review. And this is just representative of many comments we've gotten. All right. A while back we did an episode A Conan O 'Brien Needs a Fan episode Where I mentioned Ink-a-dink A bottle of ink And you all looked at me Like I was crazy Yep Well people are coming out Of the woodwork to defend me Oh good That's nice It's nice to know And you know what If anyone should defend you It's Shmoopy It's not often you hear Shmoopy to the rescue Well also Terry Bagels And Gefivir Well And No man is an island Freaky Fritz and Sean the Bomb 07.

50:08Yep. Yep, you stand. So here's one of the rules. Those are your apostles. You're quite the religious leader. Matt is right. We did this every time we played hide and seek or ghost in the graveyard to see who was it. We actually had one more verse to it as well. Ink a dink, a bottle of ink, the cork fell out and you stink. Not because you're dirty, not because you're clean, just because you kissed a girl behind a magazine. Love your podcast, love the chill chums and Conan is okay too. Behind a magazine? I don't want this person as a fan. That was not something I remember. How about who says time for our little sexual indiscretion?

50:44Meet me behind the magazine. What does that even mean? That was not in the version I had as a kid. What's Ghosts in the Graveyard? I don't know that one either. Is that a thing? It must be. I've never heard of Inka Dinka. I think some of these things are regional. Yeah. I remember that when we would play like a game of, you know, touch football on the street when I was growing up. This is like the early 1970s. And again, I lived in Brookline, Massachusetts, which is right up against Boston. So it's the closest town to Boston, really, where we would play a pickup game. And if there was any kind of dispute, like that was a foul, you fouled him or no fair, you interfered, whatever, any kind of, or no, you were out of bounds because you stepped over towards the Sices lawn rather than staying on Kennard Road.

51:33Whenever people said stuff like that, if you wanted to passive aggressively tell the other side, okay, you can have it. You'd say, let them have it. Let the babies have their orange juice. I remember we all said that. I remember people, that was something people said just in our area. And people took offense to that. Like they understood it was. Oh, they understood like, no, he really was out. No, it's fine. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I was out. let the babies have their orange juice. And I remember saying that with great conviction. And then, of course, living in different parts of the country. And nobody says that.

52:10Oh, okay. I thought you tried saying it to someone and they were like, oh, I like orange juice. I'm sure I've said that. I'm sure I have tried that in LA throughout my career, whether I was in New York or LA, and someone said, no, that joke doesn't belong in the sketch. It shouldn't be there. Okay, okay. let the baby have his orange juice. And I'm sure people just said, oh, what? First of all, orange juice is not something you give to a baby. It's way too high in sugar, way too acidic. Yeah. So the more I've learned about babies, the more I've realized that it doesn't even make sense. The baby doesn't want the orange juice.

52:49Did you have apple, peaches, pumpkin pie, whoever's not ready, holler I? No. I grew up in the 20th century. What was it? You guys, nobody makes me feel more like a child of immigrants than the two of you. What? You guys are, this is a lot. Bubble gum, bubble gum. What's that one, Eduardo? Bubble gum, bubble gum in a dish. How many pieces do you wish? One for the money, two for the show, three to get ready. What's up, my bro? What? I don't think it went what's up, no? I don't think it went what's up, my bro. Yeah, I don't think you should ever say what's up, my bro. Or the classic, right? Eeny, meeny, miny, moe.

53:25Yeah. Yeah. Eeny, meeny, miny, moe. Catch a tiger by the toe If he hollers Well that goes back to like Yeah I know that one That goes back to the Civil War Yeah You know But the ones they're saying Do you know them? No You're a child of immigrants like I am Correct And this is real white Well which ones do you know Eduardo? Superman Superman Fly Away I know Superman Well let's hear it You're so tentative That's it? What? You're never gonna make it in this country Eduardo If that's all you've got Superman Superman Fly Away And what else have you got? That's it get out of my country. USA, USA. Did you say no cuts, no butts, no coconuts when people would cut in line in front of you?

54:05I've heard it. I never said it. I know that one. Okay, I don't know. That's one I know. There you go. I'm American. These are the things that should be on the citizenship test when you enter the country. No, it should not. Oh, you're right. It shouldn't be. No, no, it shouldn't be. No, we're doing a list of what shouldn't be on the citizenship test. Yeah. I know. Yeah. Like, let the baby have their orange juice. I think people can go in this world without knowing that. Maybe that's just a Boston thing. I don't know. That's a weird one. It's really weird. Let the babies, and I remember it saying it with great, you know, you know, sort of intensity.

54:37Yeah. Let the babies have their orange juice. We shall move on. Wow. What a stupid thing to say. God, I was stupid. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if we've, if we've arrived at any conclusion here. It's that I'm the idiot and that you, with your inka dinka bottle of ink. Yeah. There's a guy, I think he stinks, If he buys a coat, I hope it's mink. No. Now you're mocking. What's up, bro? What's up, bro? He needs mental health. He should see a shrink. Go have some orange juice. Yeah, baby. Yeah. Ipsy dipsy daddly doo. Yeah? Yeah. I was young, but then I grew. My favorite food was beef au jus. Oh, come on. There's always beef au jus with you.

55:23I'm in Britain. I've got to use the loo. That's the one I'm going to use You know That's what I'm using I want to see how far it can go Can you remember it? Do you remember what I said? Ipsy Bipsy Bodily Boo Yeah I was young but then I grew Yeah My favorite food was Beef Ha Jou I was in England and I used the loo Yeah when I'm in England I used the loo How did I I forgot it immediately But why can't that become legitimate? I want to hear kids saying that Okay Ipsy Bipsy Bodily Boo Yeah I was a child but then I grew Okay My favorite food is beef au jus. That's where I think where you lose everybody.

55:57I don't think so. Okay. You know what? I was on a, I had to play the stage at Bonnaroo, the main stage. You were there for this. When you were on tour. When I was on tour and it was a C. It was just that, that reverse shot you see at like Woodstock. All you see is people. And then the distance, you see some towers with lights. Yeah. And I had to go out there and I remembered there's no subtlety. this is a crowd that can hear plugged in rock and roll through giant stacks you can't go out there in front of that crowd so i remembered what they liked was when i'd come out and i'd and i'd go like bonnaroo how do you do and they'd go and i did a couple of variations of that and then i'll never forget i had this microphone where i went let's go get some beef au jus No!

56:52Hundreds of thousands of people suddenly got very quiet. I knew it was time to say. I just imagined them parting down the middle and leaving. I remember when you did that, you came back and you're like, all I have to do is ask questions. Yeah. Yeah. Are you ready? Are you ready? It was a lot of that. I realized that's what they like. Yeah, just questions. You know what? When you start rhyming beef au jus, it's time to bring pink out there, you know? Let's jump in pink! Remember Nas? Yeah, I do. I was like, it's not time to bring pink out. I think it's time for you to go into a home. Yeah, it's time for me to go.

57:34All right, God bless, Godspeed. Get some beef out. Inka dinka. Bottle of ink, the cork fill out. No, no, no, no, no, beef au jus. Conan O 'Brien needs a friend. With Conan O 'Brien, Sonam of Sessian, and Matt Gourley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Nick D 'Leal, and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Earwolf. Theme song by The White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering by Eduardo Perez. Additional production support by Mars Melnick.

58:14Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and BritCon. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 323-451-2821 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

58:47Thank you.