Dan Levy

23:43Well, Father's Day is coming up. Hint, hint. June 21st. Wow. Not your children. What? My children are not getting me anything. So it's up to you guys to get me Father's Day. They have never bought into Father's Day, but you guys are going to. You're my employees and you have to. Well, guess what? Luckily, Macy's has a wide range of options, the expertise to help you find the perfect gift. Macy's is the answer for Father's Day. David. Yes. As my sort of surrogate son. Okay. Oh, that's nice. The son that I hired to buy me things. Exactly. I hope that you're prepared for this Father's Day, and I hope you've consulted Macy's.

24:26Oh, I sure I have done both of those things. First. Oh, there you go. You love a pun. We got you a shirt that says The Grillfather. I love that shirt because you know what? I love the Godfather movies, and I love grilling, and they've combined them with The Grillfather. And are you ready to combine it even more? Let's see the next gift. Ooh. A ninja indoor grill. Can I say something? That looks really good. It does. And then, you know, sometimes when you're grilling, You know, you might want to get rid of that scent, that smell. So we got you some Dior cologne. Oh, is that Sauvage? It's Sauvage.

24:56Oh, my God. I love Sauvage. And I love that it does mask the scent of charred meat really well. Yeah. So happy Father's Day from us and Macy's. You know what? I want to say thank you. Those are cool gifts. I love it. Check out Macy's online gift guide for more ideas at macy's.com slash gift guide.

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25:51That's when I throw my phone into the Grand Canyon. Oh, okay. Literally filled half the Grand Canyon with phones. Then I got T-Mobile and never had to chuck them again. You know? Good. So wander over to T-Mobile.com and switch. Best based on analysis by Ookla of speed test intelligence data for 2H 2025. Wow, that's some sentence. T-satellite with capable device in most outdoor areas in US where you see the sky. That's important. You got to see the sky. Yep. Service may be limited or unavailable. Included with experience beyond or$10 per month. Auto renews. Cancel any time. That was probably meant to be said by a robot really quickly, but I just did it slowly so you could really understand.

26:32Disclaimer. Please do not throw your phone into the Grand Canyon.

26:38Ever invest in something that seemed incredible at first, but didn't live up to the hype? Yeah, like all the time. Yeah. I did that with an all-potato restaurant. Oh, no. marketers know that feeling. They optimize for the numbers that look great, like impressions, but then they don't see revenue. You know what I'm talking about, don't you, Sarah? Oh, yeah, all the time. Yeah, LinkedIn has a word for that, bull spend. Bull spend. Yeah, instead you can get the highest ROAS of major ad networks with LinkedIn ads. Cut the bull spend. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend$250 and get a$250 credit. Go to LinkedIn.com slash Conan.

27:19Terms apply.

27:26Schitt's Creek, initially, the reviews were mixed. And you were taking some heat for like, oh, is this, you know. I believe the New York Times called me untalented. Oof. Yeah. What the fuck? Well, and yeah, in the review of season one. And the problem with doing press around something when these articles are coming out is you then have to swallow the fact that the New York Times, everybody is reading the New York Times. Yes. Reading like, I don't know if it was the word was untalented, but that was the takeaway that I took from it. It was not kind. Yeah. And then you kind of had to go and be like, I'm really excited about the show that I'm making.

28:12Anyway, cut to six years later, they wrote a glowing review of our final episode. And you sometimes just have to keep working to prove yourself. And I'm fine with that. Yeah, I mean, this is funny because you mentioned this with the, in Canada, you don't want a leg up. You almost want the punishment. I realized that I had kind of a self-hating thing that was very comfortable with the punishment early on. Sure. And then when things turned around, And by the time they turned around, I felt much more confident because I felt like I hadn't been floating along on a lot of hot air, certainly. And it can feel beneficial, you know, to to to walk through that in the beginning.

28:56Absolutely. And I feel very lucky about the fact that nobody really watched Schitt's Creek until it was done. So we were able to just make the show we wanted. How rare is that? To make six seasons of a TV show with absolutely no expectations from an audience. Nobody cared. We were hustling till the end. And then it wasn't until I had finished writing the last episode of our sixth season, the series finale, that people started to pay attention. So we had this wonderful kind of window where due to, you know, luck and circumstance, we were able to stay on the air for six amazing seasons. Yeah. But nobody cared.

29:34But also so great. I cared. I definitely cared. But also what's nice is now they're done and we are a culture now. I think there is upsides and downsides to the modern streaming world we live in. A big upside is shows that I love like an Arrested Development or a Schitt's Creek. They're there for me at all times. Right. And you can go through and you can page through them like having a classic novel around the house. Sure. It's really lovely. And I remember thinking this before she passed. I remember thinking it was such a nice thing for Catherine to have that role during that last decade of her life where she was playing someone who is beloved.

30:21People love the character and they're really getting to see yet another way that she's really funny. and she was very proud of it. And I think people were always coming up to her saying, we love you on Schitt's Creek. It was such a nice thing for her that you made happen. She made it happen. I just made sure that I was prepared. Okay. That's really what it came down to. Like, so much of Moira Rose was Catherine. Yeah. As is every character she, I mean, you know, Seth Rogen was talking about this recently about, you know, how the amazing thing about Catherine is she would email them the night before being like, gentlemen, some thoughts about the scenes we're shooting tomorrow, and it would be a full top-to-tail rewrite.

31:08And as soon as he said it, it was like, I got those emails. Yeah, that's great. Gentlemen. It always started with gentlemen, some thoughts. And then it was an unbelievable rewrite of the scene. And that is what the amazing, all the great Catherine roles were when she found collaborators that wanted to give her that platform. Yeah. You know, because she had so much to offer and she was so, the way that she thinks is so on another level that as a writer, you can't get into her head. So all you can really do is set the table, wait for the email, gentlemen, some thoughts, read the scene and say, fuck yeah, you know?

31:51And like, just be prepared. Sure. You know, she told me how she wanted to look on the show. My job was to make sure that in a wardrobe fitting, we had everything that would excite her. Well, this I have to break in because you just brought up a topic that came to my mind, which is the wardrobe for the show was, you know, a star of the show as well. Sure. And it always reminded me a little bit of Gilligan's Island where the premise was these people get together for a three-hour tour. A storm hits. They're washed up on an island. And every time you see the Howells, they're wearing these absurd different outfits.

32:29And they just said, yes, they brought a trunk of their clothes with them on a three-hour tour. And it was a trunk that was like out of Hogwarts. It was infinite. That could last for years. There's Belgian armor in there. there's Shakespearean garb every single thing you would ever need and I remembered having that thought about Schitt's Creek which is they had money and then lost it but got to keep every piece of clothing and somehow store it in a motel very small motel often booked up so in our mind all of their clothes were stored in the upstairs above the lobby of the motel but also I love that's how we rationalized it I love that.

33:11I love that. You do seem to me like someone who does his homework. I'm sure you were doing all of the character work and figuring out down to the smallest detail. But to that point, those clothes did so much of the character work for us. All I had to do was make sure the racks looked good and they were nuts. And that we had, you know, huge sky high heels and like knee high boots and mini skirts made out of latex. And at some point there were some, I would source these, these designer pieces that sometimes required us to contact the designer to find out how to put them on. There's a dress that Catherine wears.

33:53You enter through the arm. No joke. So there's a very classic scene where Moira Rose is being photographed in a field by a character we called Sebastian Rain, who was played by Francois Arnault, who is now of heated rivalry fame. And she is in a latex dress that had to be tied with a shirt underneath. and we couldn't figure out how to tie the latex because putting a tie around latex is like rubber rubbing against rubber. So at one point, there were like four people around Catherine, like one with a foot on her back, one trying to tie the latex. I'm like swirling around her being like, can you breathe?

34:37Are you feeling good? Is everything okay? Misting her. And that was when Catherine was like at her most excited. Yeah, yeah. When the costumes were so insane that it took five people to put them on and then boots that were laced up that took 10 minutes and then she'd walk onto set. You would hear kind of gasps from the crew because they never knew what she was going to show up wearing and looking like, depending on the wigs as well. And it was the joy of seeing Catherine excited. There is no greater joy for me. But also, I mean, you got to wear great stuff. I wore a lot of drop crotch pants and they were all really comfortable, actually.

35:19So that's all you can ask for. I mean, wearing double-faced cashmere in the dead of summer in Toronto outside was tough, but I won't complain about it. We all pay our dues. That's exactly it. I always heard that Sarah Jessica Parker owned, like, her deal when she was making Sex and the City was she gets to own all the dresses and that they're in a massive warehouse somewhere and she owns them all. And I'm thinking, I hope you had that deal with Schitt's Creek. Are you fucking crazy? Do you understand how little that show cost? We had to sell every piece of clothing to pay off the debts that the show had, even in our sixth season.

36:00We got no cash. It was like slim pickings from the very beginning and then incremental sort of, I think it's like a standard 15 percent, whatever it is that your budget can increase. But, you know, 15 % on like a pile of shells and a feather is not giving you much. So we had to sell it all. I kept four looks. I kept four of Catherine's looks, four of Annie's looks, and four of my looks. Unfortunately, my dad's suits we can just buy in a store. But, so I have some. The retrospective will be small. But I do have some of the looks. So the museum is going to be like a little nook in a mall. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

36:41It'll be a corner. Yeah. Here they are, the four outfits. That's right. Moths got to them, but it's fine. They were kept in my parents' basement in Toronto, where they still are, in a plastic bin. So we'll see. How the show ends, and I know that people are probably all saying to you, as they do in this business, or really any business, once you have a success, hey, what's the next thing? That's right. And I have never known what the next thing is. and go into like a weird, slovenly funk. I did say to my wonderful team of people, I cannot hear the word momentum ever again. Right, right. It means nothing to me.

37:27Momentum, I feel like, is a word that forces people to make bad decisions. Wow, that's good. I just, and yet this is an industry that's like, you're hot, you're hot, you're hot. What about this? and someone says yes and you do it and suddenly you're spread too thin. We see it all the time. I don't know. I feel like I've been lucky enough to really care about the quality of the work because to me, if what I'm putting out there isn't good, then why am I doing it? You know what I mean? I worked at a bakery in a video store. I can go back if I have to. Oh, the video store. Wow. You can trim that, right?

38:08No, we can't. I worked on a TikTok. We're going to put that on a loop. it's not fun yeah and there's no i mean you know to work on things you don't care about it's just not fun so i would rather take the time and risk the lack of momentum right and put something out that continues to like excite people then take every opportunity and not be maybe even the best fit for the opportunity that crosses my path yeah it's a really interesting point you make about momentum because that is a thing. You got to strike while the iron is hot. You know, you just had a hit movie. You've got to write a book instantly.

38:46Yeah. And no, I sell Tostitos chips. Absolutely. Do you regret it? No, you do not. Absolutely not. I was making a Canadian TV show. Okay. Even at the end, we weren't making like, yeah, it's different. So when Tostitos, I love a Tostitos chip. You know what? Anyway, can I just say one other thing? It's a good chip. It's a good chip. Are you preparing yourself for eventually becoming a Tostito guy? I'm thinking, I'm just putting it out there. But if Dan wants to do something with me in the Tostitos. Again, the humble side of myself was like, don't make it seem like you didn't take the, you know, the ads.

39:24I took the ads. I enjoyed them. I was able to make them my own. Yes. Well, to me, the great revenge is if you can make one of those things funny and in your voice. That's it. Then it becomes something you would have made anyway. Exactly. which is always the dream that is but I'm just curious you're in this period then where you need to think you need some time and time goes by and you've worked on other things but then this idea comes along and did you have this idea this show idea this show idea well in between that show I made a very small movie called Good Grief for Netflix which was exactly what they wanted me to make after the success of Schitt's Creek a small film on the rumination of grief, just examining the small ins and outs of how a group of friends deal with grief.

40:14You want laughs? We got laughs. And I was so aware of it at the time when I pitched it, too. You know, you're looking at very kind executives being like, and then, and that's it. Okay, great. And they made the movie, and I was so happy because it got me through such a hard time in my life, and I'm so proud of the film. But yes, now we are back to comedy. Yeah. And I'm, again, but I do think if you have curiosity, you have to, I think that's why the second album from an artist is always kind of the experimental one. Yeah. Because when they have success in one area, like a record, you'll listen to an unbelievable record, like Jagged Little Pill, for example.

40:57And then you have supposed former infatuation junkie, which is like similar, but very different. but I think you need the freedom to play in another area to show yourself that you have the ability to do other things because the industry can make you feel like, oh, you're that guy. Yeah. Yeah. So that's what you do. And you'll do that. And I did. I got like really a lot of scripts where I was asked to play essentially a worse written David Rose. Yeah. And I was like, I did that better than this. So I don't want to do that again. I want to tell a small story about friends who are dealing with grief.

41:41And then I'll get back to the comedy. But I have to know what else is out there in order to feel confident enough to come back into the space that gave me everything I have now and be excited to come back to it. Right. Well, I mean, as I said earlier, David and I were watching a couple of the episodes and really enjoying it. It's really funny. and the first thing I noticed before the show even began is that this is something that you worked on with Rachel Sennett. Yes. And I thought immediately like, well, love Dan, love Rachel, very much looking forward to this and then didn't disappoint. Thanks.

42:15You know, it was really funny. I'm really happy with it. And you know what's interesting is right away, it's revealed that your character is a pastor like in the first frame and it almost so felt like you throwing down a gauntlet like, no, this is not David. it's not david it's not david you and in what it was so smart because in this one fell swoop you're like oh he this is no by by making him a pastor you're a completely different person that's right um it was you know i i wasn't even a conscious thing i think it was just curiosity i wanted to do something different i never get the opportunity to be part of a crime thing i've You know, it's just not, I guess, what people see me as.

43:00So part of what was exciting to write the show and when I thought about like, well, you know, when you commit to TV, it's a long it can potentially be a long journey, exciting journey, but a long journey. You better like what you're writing. Otherwise, you're in trouble. And the idea of finding a way through both comedy and crime felt really exciting to me because it's so far from my comfort zone. the idea of being blackmailed into organized crime is a horrible phobia that I have. That is the most specific phobia I've ever heard of in my life. Generally speaking, I hate being trapped in things.

43:34Yeah. So the concept of being blackmailed into organized crime, you are stuck. You're not getting the chances of you getting out of that situation. There's one way out and it's not good. And if you're me in that situation, you're done. Bye bye. So that felt exciting. and I brought the idea to Rachel. She loved it. We worked on it for, you know, eight months and wrote the pilot in a night. And it was just, it was great. It was so fun to act. It was so fun to write. I have to talk about your sister is played by Taylor Ortega. Yeah. And she's really funny. And I was not as familiar with her. I didn't know Taylor.

44:18And I'm watching her with you in this show. And it feels like a real brother-sister thing. Yeah. It feels very real. And one of the things I think works so well is you are so good when your character is in peril and desperate. You're so funny doing not even quiet desperation, but you play that so well. And what you've put yourself into consciously or not is a situation where you are always in terrible peril. That's right. From maybe six minutes, five minutes into the show, you're in peril. And then the show just keeps turning the crank. Yeah. So you keep getting funnier and funnier and funnier as you're in more and more peril.

45:08And of course, you have this sister, Taylor, who's very different from you and, you know, more assertive. Sure. And but also she's really funny in these situations. And the fact that you two still bicker when your lives are at risk made me really happy. So that to me was the was what is the show? Yeah. It's like, you know, playing with the audience in terms of saying, OK, what if this were you and your sibling? You wouldn't change the dynamic just because of the circumstance. You would be bickering in the back of a truck. Yeah. Well, this is, you're pointing out one of the situations, and I don't think I'm giving away too much.

45:50It's just a little thing that gives you a sense of the show is you guys are in the back of a truck. You're in great peril. And then you see an opportunity to flee. So you start to run. She starts yelling at you that it's not a good idea. You start, stop, start yelling back at her that it is a good idea. And you two are fighting about whether or not you should flee while the bad guy comes back. And I thought the fact that sibling bitterness and bickering overrides the instinct to live. That made me really happy. That's the joy of the show. These are two people that will, if they're forced to get into a common grave, will be arguing with each other about who should get shot second as opposed to first.

46:39Yeah. And I feel like, okay, you've got a lot of runway with that idea. Oh, that's always like the greatest realization when you're like deep into a season and you're like, oh, we're just getting started. You know, like that's the fun. And in finding Taylor, again, it's like I had this with Annie in Shits. Finding somebody who has done the work, found the job and is ready to go and showing them to the world. That's a thrill. Yeah. One of the many thrills of this show, you know, working with Laurie Metcalf, one of the. Oh, who is it? By the way. She's your mom. And she is, even when she's doing the subtlest thing.

47:22Yeah. She's absolutely hilarious. And, you know, the insufferable mom is a character that's been played a million times. And then Laurie Metcalf does it. And you're, it's a whole new thing. It is. And she's so good. And it was, I mean, I've been a fan of hers for, you know, like it goes back and back and back. But yeah, you know, Taylor is, I'm so excited for people to see her. I'm so excited for her to get what she's worked so hard for. You know, I think that's, there's something thrilling about introducing somebody to an audience. Because so often now it's like, you can't green light a show unless it's a stacked cast.

48:04Yeah. So to continue to tell stories with relatively up-and-coming actors is, for me, is thrilling. I include Laurie Metcalf as a relatively up-and-coming actor. You'll make it. You know, this was the project where I finally thought— This is her breakout. She's arrived. I'm so excited for her. You've talked a bunch in the past or in interviews about anxiety, feeling insecure when you're growing up. And this is a topic that fascinates me because like it or not, I think we probably have to accept that that's an essential ingredient sometimes to the mixture. Sure. And I can't explain why that would be the case.

48:46And I feel like I'm legitimizing that kind of anxiety or those kinds of mental issues. But at the same time, I also think that was a big part of my situation coming along. And if I had to do it again and didn't have that, I'm not sure that I would be here. There are certain ingredients, albeit painful ingredients, that are necessary to, in my case, to the storytelling. So much of what I write about is how families interact with each other under difficult circumstances. And if you come from a yelly family, I think this show in particular celebrates yelly families. I think of people who don't come from Yelly families will probably watch this in shock and horror.

49:34But if you come from a Yelly family, it is a celebration of the fact that anxiety and nerves manifest in very loud aggression between people. And if I didn't experience that and inherit it, I wouldn't be here today. Right. So as hard as it is, there does come a point. I think age is a big part of it, too. Like, I'm now 42. I don't care as much as I did when I was 20. When I was 20, everything was consequential. And so when everything is consequential and you are an anxious person, you will worry about everything because you're so unaware of how little it matters in the end. so now I think I get to look back on my own experiences and kind of the experiences I've had with my family and all of that kind of stuff and and celebrate it yeah instead of continue to wear it I'm a less anxious person than I am now and I do actually think at the core of the show it's an it's an examination of what we inherit what that kind of ancestral trauma that kind of trickles down from, in this case, like, matriarch to Lori to the kids.

50:53You know, the very first scene of the show, Nona is dying and she's a yeller. And then you instantly see that this yelling streak has just found its way through three generations of this family. And all we try to do as a generation below is push back against what we're inheriting. Yeah. And sometimes you can do it and sometimes you can't. You just have to let it happen. But it's fun to be able to, like, write about the minutia of anxiety and how it affects people. I think it's endlessly entertaining. Now, where do you—so when you're making the show, is the show made in Canada? Is it made in Los Angeles?

51:33In New Jersey. Okay. Yeah. So where do you live? And I need an address. I'm well I I have been in LA and relocated to New York City to make the show that's so cool we shot in New Jersey and it was very exciting to be back on the east coast so what to you is is home when you think of going home is that Toronto is it LA now it's LA LA yeah okay that's it's because I think that um I'm always fascinated by that because home used to be Boston for me but it's not anymore because I've been gone too long. And I think the more that the hometown changes, the less you can relate to it. Like I was just in, I just came from Toronto yesterday night and I look around and it's just not the place that I grew up in.

52:23So when you look around and the place doesn't reflect the memories that you have, all you have are the memories. It becomes less and less about the actual place. so my life now is in los angeles most of my friends are in los angeles and um that is home the hometown is is is a memory at this point yeah but also i think even though my parents are still in my family house oh oh is that true right now same house all these years yeah by the way your mom's really funny she is very funny she's arguably funnier than my dad yes yeah who by the way and He'll admit that. Yeah. Yeah. And I've told your dad all the time, I've never found him amusing.

53:05That's right. And his eyebrows go up. Uh-huh. No, he is such a lovely man. And I met all these people for the first time when I did a Aspen. They asked me, would you come out to do the Aspen Comedy Festival? And this is just when my show had kind of clicked in and it was starting to gel. I remember being younger and thinking that was the coolest thing. The Aspen. That he got to meet you. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. You got that wrong. But it was, I remember they said, Conan, will you, we want someone to, you know, interview all the SCTV greats. And I thought, this is a make a wish. Like I must be dying and no one told me.

53:48But I went and, you know, talked to everybody and interviewed them and did my preparation and we did the thing. And when it was over, your dad said, hey, everybody. everyone was starting to disperse and your dad like a camp counselor said hey everybody I think Conan put a lot of work into this and did a really nice job and I think we should you know give him a round of applause and I thought what a like incredibly nice man to do that that's so nice you know like he was taking care of me right he was he saw like oh wait a minute this guy let's before we all go let's make sure we do this and that always that touched me a lot he's a very sweet man.

54:23Yeah. He's a very well like soft well intentioned sweet person. I did not inherit his goodness.

54:35It says that here in your information. Genuinely kind like he just it is I can't just I can't explain it. Yeah. And the number of people that come up and are just like your dad is so nice. And I'm like I know but I can't help you You are also something.

54:57Well, the show is Big Mistakes. It's really funny. And I'm very happy for you. Thank you. And please come back anytime. And also, you're part of this. I get, I say this a lot, but I get very excited when I meet and get to hang out with, even briefly, younger talent that's part of this whole ecosystem. And the fact that is, you know, because we've had Rachel here. Oh, yeah. And having you here. And I'm just always very pleased when I get to be around this whole, what I consider to be a childlike generation that's doing really good work. It makes me happy. Like I get to relax. Listen, I'll take that compliment, simply the youth factor, because I don't think I'm young at all.

55:36Guess what? I am now. I love that. I am at a vintage now where I'll meet what I think is a kid and say, I think this kid's really coming along and I want to help this kid. And someone will tell me they're 55. That's their third hip. That's right. I'm so glad I invest in facials. You know what I mean? It's good to keep the skin looking. Whatever you're doing, keep doing. That's right. Anyway, I appreciate that. Thank you. This was great. Thank you so much for doing it. Thank you for having me, everybody. Appreciate it. Thank you.

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57:31all right we gotta get to the bottom of something uh recently on a podcast episode it came to my attention uh because i blay was was babbling and blurting and blay you mentioned that your mom does your taxes. It was then revealed to us that, well, she doesn't do your taxes. She takes, she calls another tax service. She uses TurboTax. She uses TurboTax to take care of your taxes. Yeah, it's fantastic. For you. That's right. She demands to do it, by the way. I just want to make that clear. I'm not asking her to do it. She gets upset when I even toss the idea out of me. Sure, understood. Okay. And that's not what we're going to go after here.

58:11Okay. What I want to investigate is you brought up at a certain point that you write off your various, I'm going to call them trinkets, doodads. What do you call them? Memorabilia? I would say arcana. That style feels reductive. They're objects of power that I love to buy. What are we talking about? So listen, listen. You like. I'm a collector. I like stuff. I'm a collector of great items. Okay, and things like, I'm going to give you a great example. You're like Channeling Jordan, a collector of great items. No, no, no. I just, I want to - Swords, like battle swords. Okay, yes. Like, I bought a really cool Batman statue.

58:51A statue of Batman. That's right, a Batman statue done by, in the style like Sergio, you know, the Mad Magazine guy. Yeah. I think it's Aragones, I believe. Aragones, that's right. I have a number of swords, you know, flamethrower. I just got an axe. but not just weapons but also not just weapons you also have like stuff relating to various things you're into I have a dinosaur egg a brontosaurus egg a real one that's right okay and you know meteorites I have several like three or four meteorites I have a cool it's actually 70 million years old it's a whale vertebrae sure it's a giant it's kind of like the size of two a big coffee can I shouldn't have said memorabilia you collect shit and you have a lot of shit and you write it off because you said you managed to mention it on the podcast.

59:43Well, we use it for the podcast. How do we use it? Because it's the basis of comedy bits like this today. It's a big drama comedy bit. You just listed 20 things. And also like, so for instance, summer s'mores. So you're buying summer s'mores. I bought a big broadsword at the Ren Faire, which is your idea. Here's my point. I don't say, wouldn't it be cool if someone here had a broadsword and you said, I happen to have one and you brought it in and then you were able to write it off. You go out and buy stuff and then you insert it into the podcast so that you can then write it off. And that's why I brought in Mr.

1:00:19David Melmed, who is our attorney, who's helped us many times in the past. I sense fraud. I don't know about fraud. See, there we go. But, but, but, but, in terms of what the IRS may be looking at, we're talking about section 162 of the Internal Revenue Code. What is section 162 say? Ordinary and necessary expenses can be deductible. Now, I guess the question is, are those ordinary and necessary? Sure, Buenos Aires egg. Are they necessary? It says and necessary. necessary and is comedy necessary to this don't wait a minute wait a minute it's not comedy a bronchosaurus egg is not comedy until you foisted upon the podcast um and you you barrel your way into the podcast and say look what i got i got a brontosaurus egg and we're all like what the fuck are you talking about let's let melmond fish okay so what's the rest of the law let melmond finish when you don't like the way i'm going i like the way you're going let's rest in connection with the podcast.

1:01:22Yes, okay. All right, so let's take your brontosaurus egg, for example, right? Let's. Let's get past the ordinary and necessary. If you didn't bring it into the podcast, would someone bring it up? Or is this something that you're doing to get a write-off? Ooh. And I'm not going to put you on that. Well, how do they know I have a brontosaurus egg if I don't bring it in? Well, okay. He's mentioned it. We all know he has a dinosaur egg. This is becoming an insane who's on first routine. Yeah. No. No, I wouldn't have said, you know what this podcast needs is a broad sword or what it needs is a brontosaurus egg.

1:01:57I would never bring up any of those things. Sure. And they're not comedy in and of themselves. You are buying this stuff because you love it. And then you're saying, I got to get this stuff onto Conan's podcast. And then you're claiming that it was a necessary part of your job. Sure. That to me feels all backwards. It could. Well, so I'm going to go a little deeper on this. Let's let the law decide. I'm going to go a little deeper. So there's really two sides to this, right? There's talent, right? And company expenses. So if he's bringing this on as on air talent, using the mic, that's one thing.

1:02:34If you are, for example, using this as a company expense or an expense that the company would deduct, that could eat into the net revenue of the podcast. So can I ask a question? Yes. In terms of company expenses. So you're saying if I were to use the sword to defend Conan off mic, that's a company expense. No, it would have to be in connection with the podcast. That's what I'm saying. Like he comes in to do the podcast and I'm using I'm defending him physically from attackers. I'm seeing why you're not a lawyer. Jesus. It's now apparent to me. I'm just asking a question. Socratic method. All right.

1:03:08You know what I'm saying? So the act itself is not deductible. Right. But but the but right. Right. So you coming in with your sword. Yes. But us sort of cleaning up that mess could be deductible. So I'm just saying like that mess. But I'm saying like, OK, there's two things. There's talent, right? Yes. There's talent. OK. So also to make Conan safe. I didn't fall asleep. I just got super sad. When we were in Altadena, when we recorded Summer S'mores, I brought in my sword. Yeah. We did a bit where we could hear wild animals that were crazy screaming in the distance, right? Yeah. So could I argue to the IRS, I'm there to defend Conan.

1:03:45No, boy. That's a company. No, boy. You're being crazy. You think that people don't write stuff off in crazy ways? I'm bobbing and weaving. You know, hold on a second. I don't treat the IRS that way. But I guess you like to bob and weave and try and trick Uncle Sam out of his rightful do. Johnny Law's got his scratch. He doesn't need my couple books. Okay, you got to settle down. I'm going to take you off mic for a little bit. Okay. I wish I had a button that silenced play. Okay. And I would use it so routinely. I might have to just put a bunch of books on top of it. I'll stop talking. I'll stop talking.

1:04:14I want a silenced play button right here, and then I'm going to build permanent structures on top of it. I'm not comfortable with this interpretation. I do think we all need to pay our fair share. I think that those things you're buying they bring you pleasure they bring you joy I haven't unreleased the button yet this is the button and when I touch it I have a question too when you're done okay you'll have the floor after me and then anyone else who wants that but anyway yeah I guess my issue is these are his hobbies and then through the grace of some god we don't understand who works in mysterious ways he has access to this podcast and he's bullied his way up to a mic and now he's inserting himself into the show and saying, hey, you know what I was thinking about this morning?

1:05:04I was thinking about the Scarlet Witch's cape. That's what I was thinking about. I'm like, the Scarlet Witch? Yeah, she's a Marvel heroine. I was thinking about her cape and I bought one. Let's have fun talking about that. It all feels manipulative. It feels sinister. and it feels like it is, I don't know. It doesn't feel like it's in the spirit of the law. It's a bit overreaching. Yes, yes, overreaching. And then let me, hold on, we'll get to you, Blay. Eventually, I don't know what month, but we'll get there. Sona, what do you want to say? I wanted to say all of these things are what make Blay, Blay.

1:05:45I know, yeah. So, and you've mined a lot of that from him, who he is. You've talked about his watches a lot. You've talked about the fact that he has a giant wall size print out of his face in his apartment. Yeah, we don't need to say if we don't need to give him what is Blay without the dinosaur eggs. But listen, I can see his watches. I can see these things. And I Blay doesn't need to work at making himself seem more ridiculous or man child. He doesn't need to work at it. it's all this is my problem sometimes with play is that he should just trust in his natural nerdiness and his natural peter pan syndrome you know no and this is all the stuff that you have it's natural and i can see that you wear a different ironic watch every day that never costs more than three dollars and often doesn't have hands on it so you can't tell time because you've got nowhere to be i can see all this shit myself i don't need help but when you come in and your plan is today I'm going to dominate the podcast with my brontosaurus egg that I just bought, then I smell a rat.

1:06:52I smell a rat. Can I speak? Yeah. Okay. Here's what I want to say. I think it is, to Sona's point, we come up with a lot of bits on the spot, on this podcast, and yes, I have a lot of cool stuff, all right? No, you don't. No, I got a lot. You don't have a lot of cool stuff. Fine, fine, fine, fine. But my point being, I have this stuff anyway. I think it's, what I want to say is, I don't go into. You have it anyway. Well, no, no, no. You just said that. Listen, listen, listen. You may want to revise that. Hold on, freeze, freeze. You may want to revise that. Go ahead. You don't, if you had it anyway, you probably couldn't deduct it.

1:07:36So I'm giving you a chance to revise it. What I'm saying is like this. What I'm saying is this. Do you want to fix what you just said? I'll say this. I'm not going to fix it because it's honest. I have a sword. Okay. Right. I have a sword and I'm going to the rent fair. All right. And I'm at the rent fair and I'm like, oh man, I should get a sword and bring it in. Cause it could be a good comedy bit. So I buy another sword and that's what I'm writing off. Cause it's for a comedy bit. I'm not writing off the one I already have. I'm like, I'm taking things from my life and heightening them to use a comedy.

1:08:10Why do you think this show needs so much help with comedy? I don't think it needs help. Why do you think this show is bereft of all entertainment unless you go out and buy a feathered helmet? And bring it in to save us. To save poor Conan O 'Brien. No, no, no. Can't think of a thing. Guess what I bought? I just bought some underwear made of caramel at a rent fair. I would buy that. That's projection. I do not do that. As a producer, I like to give my host a buffet of choices. From which he can pick and choose. Maybe he's going to, maybe I'm offering mac and cheese. Maybe when we're saying, what should we do for a segment?

1:08:50And Sona says, oh, this happened to me. Hopping is like, this happened to me. I say, hey, I just bought a sword at the rent fair. What do you think about this? Sometimes you choose from my bucket. Sometimes you choose from others. And if you choose from my bucket, then, you know, it's all worked out. Choose from my bucket. What I do is I live for this podcast. Can I write off stuff, too? I live my life in service of this podcast. Can I write off my edibles? He can't stop. You can't stop. I want to write off all my edibles. You talked about going to Disneyland with your kids. Yeah, can I write that off?

1:09:22Can she write those tickets off? Okay. All right, I'm going to use my wife's favorite phrase, which is there's a lot to unpack here. That's for you, Liza. Stop saying it. And we are going to continue this in another episode because this is vital, vital to the American interest. Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend with Conan O 'Brien, Sonam Avsessian, and Matt Gourley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Nick Leow. Theme song by The White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy.

1:10:01Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnick Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message It too could be featured on a future episode You can also get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign up at SiriusXM.com slash Conan And if you haven't already Please subscribe to Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

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