Ezra Koenig

27:17There's just something really special about the first three. You can look through so many bands where that represents a unit, a trilogy, whatever. Our first record deal was a three-album deal. So there was so many ways in which after that intense five plus a couple year period of touring, it felt like, OK, turning 30. That was like a speed run through my 20s. The band is now in a different place. And yeah, time for a break. And then six years, six and a half years. Yeah. What did you do during that time? I did. Account for your time, young man. I mean, I want to see receipts. Guilty. I'm his accountant now.

27:54I did all sorts of stuff. You know, working on music, trying a few different things, it's a little hard to remember. But I remember thinking that six years felt like nothing, you know? And I still kind of feel that way. And in some ways, when I look back, I feel like we did it right, which is like, yeah, in your 20s, do it as quickly. Like, push yourself to go as quickly as possible. But that pace into your 30s, let alone your 40s, is insane. Yeah. I can't relate to it. I don't want it, you know? I am so aware that so much of stuff that I've done is because I had to just because I was part of a machine where you now you need to do another one and then you have to do this and then you have to do that and that there was uh uh if I did shows when I felt like I might have done like five shows I don't know do you know what I mean like there's something that some and I don't know if you've had that creatively where creativity can happen in so many strange ways, but sometimes the good thing comes really easily.

28:58Sometimes it comes when, goddammit, we need another song. No, totally. And I've actually struggled with it a bit just because I have, I used to, when the ideas wouldn't come or something, I used to feel more anxious, like it's important, we gotta get this album going. And then I learned a little more how to calm down and how to chill more and then and then it stopped mattering to me that much how quickly things came which is very like positive for my life but not not positive for the output so i i'm a little bit now like it comes when it comes we'll see i've never regretted the amount of time between albums like looking back now so now you know we started this in our early 20s uh this year i turned 40 it's a bit of a milestone looking backwards and i think all right we have five albums out if i'd been like a little more of a nut and probably gone harder and pushed harder maybe we'd have seven albums out eight it just what difference does it make yeah you've got an amazing body of work you've got a great body of work and you can keep adding to it but you're Right.

30:08I mean, first of all, I could take, I think I'm getting better at chilling. Yeah, you are. I think I am, definitely. But I had a major problem with it for a long time. Well, you had a crazy, crazy job for how... Way too long. Yeah. Yeah. Years and years and years of craziness. And having kids just changes you. It changes you so much. And then there's a while where you think, wait a minute, is there be creative versus be happy and then it turns out well no that's ridiculous there's a way to be there's a way to do both it can just come in so many different forms right but when I'm not creative or I do work I don't like now I can blame my children yeah that's why you had them you robbed me of what could have been genius you should do that you should yell sometimes just yell you robbed me of a great song I mean there's also something funny about songs too like Like, I'm not trying to be too negative, but I've always looked at other, you know, I think there's comedians who've done, like, great work late into their life and directors and novelists and stuff.

31:16You know, the number of people who recorded their best albums in their 40s or 50s or 60s, the consensus would be there's not a lot of people who have done that. So there's also some part of me that feels like, well, if you only get a certain number of songs in this life, like really wait for them, spread them out, and, you know, don't rush through it, you know? Right, right. Who are the people that you look to, you know, whether musicians, artists, people that you, careers you look at and think, okay, that. Do you have people in mind sometimes? Yeah, sure. I mean, last time I saw Bob Dylan, here in LA at the Pentagist Theater, and he was touring his last album, which had that, I don't know if you guys heard the 17-minute JFK song, Murder Most Foul.

32:10Yeah, I did hear that. And I thought that was just such a monumental achievement. And I thought, wow, this guy's, this is the best popular music ever recorded by an 80-year-old. He's pushing into territory we've never seen before. So that was inspiring. But then, if I'm honest, I've always been really excited about, story like another famous songwriter of course is leonard cohen he he had cool albums uh up until the end of his life but i really think one of the reasons i was always the most interested in him was because he had that period where he went up mount baldy um you know to study with his uh zen teacher for like seven years and i and then i started to realize that i've always been so interested in people who take serious time off um or people who kind of disappear for a while.

33:01In some ways, those are like the most inspirational stories because sometimes they come back and do great work like Leonard Cohen, and then sometimes they don't. And even that's kind of cool. I find that inspiring too. Just to know that it's possible. So you're telling me to go away. Just like seven years. I'll be dead. I haven't got seven years. No, but I do understand completely what you're saying. And I always think about, I think about people in comedy. I think about that probably a lot more. And I think about the people that have done consistently good work. and, you know, Steve Martin, Marty Short are doing, I mean, they're both faster than and funnier than most people I'm ever going to meet.

33:55And they've got a bunch of years on me. They don't want me to say how many, but they're 115 years old individually, not added up. And that always, I always look to those people. And Bob Newhart, who just passed, was so funny throughout his career, starting in 1960 and going through all these different permutations. He was so smart and so funny and so quick right up to the end of his life. And I lived to be, I believe, 96 and just passed away about two months ago. And I think, I look to those people and I think, no, there is a way to do it. I think we live in a society where people think they have to be trending all the time and they have to be discussed all the time.

34:43And I think, no, I know exactly what you're talking about. People can have, they can have a little peek and then they can go away for a while and think and regenerate and then come up with something else. I get that. I like that. I mean, it's like when there's a We Are the World documentary that was great. A lot of people watched it, really enjoyed it. And you see this moment, Bob Dylan in the mid 80s. Yep. And that a lot of people remarked on. He seems so nervous. and maybe part of it is he felt like does my voice sound good on this song, whatever but also part of it is that Bob Dylan in the mid 80s was releasing his least loved albums they always have a few great songs on them, there's like some classic stuff but either way, he was it probably felt a little bit random for him you know, a guy who in the 60s and 70s crushed it so hard in the 80s still trying to like figure out how he could relate to the sounds of the day and there he was surrounded by these people who were breaking new ground for how big and influential a pop star could be.

35:41Bruce Springsteen in the 80s, Michael Jackson, whatever. So of course, that was like a weird moment for him in his life. And yet, you know, he consistently, I don't know, he never really went away. He seems to like to work. He released tours a lot, releases albums, but you know, he just like kept on trucking and eventually he was back to releasing more loved albums. But then you go back and you're like, that was cool work. I don't know what it felt like for him. Looked a little uncomfortable in the documentary. Yeah, I think in the documentary, too, he's around these people who can belt. Yes. And of course, that's not Bob Dylan's thing.

36:16And so he's working with people who are, you know, kind of saying like, you don't really hit this. And he's like, I don't really do that, you know. And but you're right. You can take a snapshot of anybody at, you know, a moment in their career and it doesn't tell you the whole story, you know? And I think it's why, um, I'm always kind of fascinated. It sounds like I'm making a joke and I'm actually not. I find obituaries to be one of the most interesting parts of the newspaper because, uh, they tell the whole story. Like there's going, there's no more story to this person. This person has passed and they're gone.

36:55And sometimes if it's a fascinating person, I read an obituary once and it was Stalin's daughter. And she had lived this, I mean, she's born, she's living in the Kremlin, Stalin's her dad. She lives through all that. But then after he dies, she goes off and she becomes like a jet setter in London in the 60s. But then she ends up at the end of her life, after 15 different chapters, she ends up being this little old lady who's living in like a small hut in Montana. And you think - Yeah, literally in Montana. someplace in the, you know, like in the plains. And you look at the whole arc of her career and it has like 75 different crazy improbable chapters.

37:36And I thought, that's a life. I love, you know, but you could take any one moment from it and not see the whole story if you just checked in on that one moment. Yeah, totally. And I think what you're talking about is for musicians, you can check in on them at a moment and not see, not get the right picture of what they're up to or where they're going. Oh, yeah, of course. And then also the, you know, timing is everything. So like you release an album, you do your best, you hope that people like it and judge it on its merits. But of course, like when our first album came out, of course, I'm very proud of that album.

38:13I think it's a great album. People still discover it today. But that was also a little bit of a moment where people were interested in bands from New York. You know, it was also this moment when the major labels were a little bit confused. I always think of it as this brief historical period between Napster and Spotify, which kids today will never know about. It was a really brief window. So it wasn't the 90s where people were buying CDs hand over fist, nor was it like the Empire Strikes Back moment where the major labels were kind of like, oh, we actually know how to do this again. We figured it out, yeah.

38:46It was a weird moment and people were interested in, you know, what they called indie. and you know so again i'm not taking anything away i'm very proud of the album but it's good timing yeah you know if that if people always used to ask us questions like does it ever bum you out that people are buying less cds let's pretend it's like 2008 does cd sales are way down do you wish you came out in 1998 and i just remember thinking i have no idea what how we would fit in in 1998 it could have been way worse actually yeah why would i assume that in 1998 we would have been like matchbox 20 or something for all i know in 1998 it never would have gotten off the ground because so anyway these moments you guys would have had huge hair in the 80s right like be dancing with a snake you know right we might have been even more indie in 1998 and so anyway that's all to say that like there are these bigger moments you know the forces of reality that come and go and there's headwinds and tailwinds and at some point you know that's so much bigger than you.

39:43I know exactly what you're talking about because I was very crazily lucky to get into what I was doing in television in 93, but TV audiences started eroding rapidly about seven years into when I'm working on a big network and it's becoming more about cable and everything. And so you could have people say to me, don't you wish you had been come along, started in like 1958. And then you could have, you're like, this is dumb question because then I wouldn't get to do what I'm doing now or we wouldn't have videos online. So there was a time if you took a snapshot of me in the late 2000s, we'd say, well, this is just a terrible time to be trying to do this, be a late night talk show host because it's becoming whatever, it's becoming less and less relevant or audiences are getting smaller.

40:31But no, it was the perfect time because you could, you know, make it your own. So I understand exactly what you're saying. Yeah. And in that window, you, yeah. Was there another time? Cause you got to do like the, in the nineties, the sense of humor you had, would you have been allowed to do that in the, I wasn't really allowed to do it in the nineties. People I worked for were not happy. There was a movement, get me out of there plan for a while, but, um, but yeah, it all, like I say, you have to, you're dealt the hand you're dealt and you, and I think we've both been really fortunate. You know, I think about, yes, you're right.

41:09There was a moment there. I think you're crazily talented and would have found your way in any era. I always, one of the things that stands out about you, Ezra, is your ability to write a melody, I think is very rare. You write some beautiful melodic turns and throughout your music. And I've always, it catches me. and it always reminds me how hard that is. I think that's a very difficult thing to do and it's a rare gift. Oh, well, thanks. I mean, that's also, you know, I wait until I have a song where I feel like it's got a melodic hook. And that's probably one of those things that, especially in pop music, like you can get pretty sophisticated with chords and stuff, but usually the people want something simple and memorable.

41:55And a lot of my favorite music is like that. And yeah, sometimes I can overthink stuff about what the production is supposed to be like or the references or the lyrics and stuff. But in some ways, it's just either you have a good melody or you don't. And sometimes you got to wait for it. But yeah, that's the most fundamental thing. Without getting too technical, what's your process? Because your lyrics are so good. And it's crazy to say they're literate, but they are. They're very smart and they're really well-crafted. And I think, okay, are you sitting down and writing? Do you get the melody first?

42:28Do you write that or can it happen in any order? I just basically want to know how to do this. And I'm not leaving until you tell me. The truth is I really don't know. And that's why I'm not prolific. That's why even when there were times where, you know, once or twice I wrote something that ended up being part of somebody else's thing. Like once there was this demo I made with Diplo and turned into Beyonce's song. So a lot of people were like, oh, do you want to do like more pop writing? And like just deep down, it was kind of an exciting idea. but deep down I just had this feeling like, I can't, I don't know if I can go subject some pop star to just me sitting there and be like, now we wait.

43:06So because I don't have a lot of good ideas, like certain songs, Oxford comma, I sat down at the piano at my parents' house and I started, what do you think there's a fuck about an Oxford comma? And I was like, oh, it sounds like something. And then since then, it's a good question. I'm trying to figure it out too, because I don't want there to be 10 years between every album. But the one thing I know that kind of works for me is when I have no inspiration or something, I just keep a running list of phrases I come across, words on my phone. So that way, if I sit down at the piano or the guitar and I start playing something and nothing comes to mind, I can always scan that list.

43:41Like there's a song on the new album called Prep School Gangsters. It was a New York Magazine cover story from the 90s. It's kind of like a classic cover and the phrase is always so like funny and evocative to me. So, you know, once I've started working on something, I looked through List Prep School Gangsters and it started to come together. So that's the only way I know. Do you ever think, okay, what if, God forbid, you put all of your money into a bad theme restaurant and it's all gone and it's, and I'm going to pitch you a theme restaurant when we're done here. And I really need you to put all your money into it.

44:17Okay. But do you ever think to yourself, what if I had to take this ability that you have, this talent I have and I just had to make money to put food on the table and I mean I had people saying like okay Ezra Wendy's wants a jingle they want a jingle and it's a triple patty right and the meat hasn't been frozen yeah and uh and they're using a new kind of cheese and uh that's really fantastic called Lundlader you got to give us something and you're like damn it I I want braces for my kids. I've got to do that. I have to. I have to. Do you ever think if you were in that position? I don't think you understand rock music.

44:57Oh, I do. Okay. And it can be. Have you, a lot of jingles have a, Yeah, I guess I'd like to think that when push came to shove, I can make Wendy's proud. I'd like to think that. Let's get to Wendy's. I don't know if you're listening. Yeah, because in some ways, maybe the, over the last 16 years, the thing that I've tried to protect and grow is my kind of artistic indie sensibility because that's what I've needed. Whereas in an alternate lifetime, if I could have suppressed that and turned it into something more utilitarian, yeah, I like a challenge. Once the director of the new Peter Rabbit movie asked me to write a song, and I was like, okay, let me really try to think about what it means to write something for kids.

45:43And the truth is, a lot of times when I've thought about what another job I'd like besides music. It has, it's been a little bit like marketing in the food and beverage space. So I really would like to put this together. Again, we're back to Whitecloth. Yeah. Whitecloth, you're listening. I would never guess that your side hustle would. I just think the marketing of food and beverage is something that we need to get into. And you're talking to the rest of the band. Guys, listen up. No, I bring it up because people talk about the great music of the 60s. and obviously there was so much of it. What doesn't get mentioned a lot is I do think some of the best music of the 60s was television themes.

46:23There are incredible, incredible television themes that came from 60s and 70s television. There's a lot of terrible ones, but the good ones are fantastic. They're just great scores. And you think that's people that were like, all right, what are we doing today? You know, okay, what's it called? It's called Mission Impossible. It's called Hawaii Five-0. It's called the Wild Wild West. It's called the Flint. All right, let's go. Yeah, and they had to just churn it out. It's called F Troop. And you think I'm kidding. Listen to those songs. They're fucking crazily good. They're fantastic. Oh, yeah, totally.

46:59And there's something inspiring about that. And also the songwriters of the 20s and 30s, that image of like a couple people in sweater vests sitting at the piano with the - Grinding it out. Yeah, grinding it out. But there is something really appealing about that. Tint Man Alley. Yeah. Yeah. So I'd like to think that there, you know what's tough is just like, it's just the other side of the coin from what I've been doing. So maybe I've never really known how to kind of like do both. Clearly you don't have to. And this is not something I'm suggesting, but it is funny. I'm thinking about it really seriously.

47:37No, but what's interesting to me is when I started my career in 1985 with my writing partner, Greg Daniels, we were put in a room on this TV show. It was called Not Necessarily the News. I remember early on, they just wanted little sight gags from us, little visual, like non-sight gags that they could put music over that people could perform. and we would sit there and we would just grind on these things and our desks faced each other like we were just two bankers grinding away. I went off to do all the weird stuff I've done and Greg went off to do The American Office and Parks and Recreation and King of the Hill.

48:18And he's just, you know, been this machine turning out all this great television. But we started out doing this very, Hey, you know, literally like I would picture someone just throwing a sandwich into the room and then get back to work. And but I don't dislike that part of my career, but it was write some jokes, write some gags. Come on, you two will shut the door. And at the end of the week, you better give us 75 gags. All right, we're on it. And that's that's what it was. And so I've always been fascinated by that side of things. And so I'd like to reach out. I'd like to reach out to Wendy's on your behalf.

48:55No, I love that. And even just the visual of you guys just at the desk. I've always wanted a little more deskiness in my world. At some point, I became a little more mystical, and I felt like Vampire Weekend's its own thing. It'll tell me when it wants the song, as opposed to what you're talking about. But I've always loved, in fact, there's the French band Phoenix. I know them very well, and they were working on their last album a few years ago and I happened to be in Paris. I went to visit them at the studio. For that album, the studio was The Louvre. Oh my God. It sounds like I'm just like making up French stuff.

49:35But somehow they had a connection and maybe because it was like the tail end of COVID. A connection. Hey, you want The Louvre? You want The Louvre? So literally you'd go to The Louvre And you would enter the arts and decoration department. And somebody from the museum took me up. I remember they were like, that's Napoleon's chair. So I walked past Napoleon's chair. And then they were just in a room. Anyway, I'd never actually seen them working on an album. And they had a desk in the middle of the room with like four laptops, as if they would just sit down at the desk. And there was something about, I'd never seen anything quite like it.

50:14Even just the spatial, normally in a studio, you know everybody's kind of looking at the screen and so you're probably sitting you know when i work with like arielle as the main producer i work with you know his back is to me maybe i sidle up behind him a little bit but these are just four guys at their laptops at a desk it it for all you know they could it could have been like working on like a a takeout app or something but there's something i but i remember at the time they do also have a successful insurance company Yeah, but I just love that vision of just that. The university. Them sitting down at a desk.

50:48Like, what are we doing? The same idea of just a couple people throwing around ideas. No, I, well, first of all, we can get, I'm going to make sure, I'm going to talk to Rashida. We're getting you a desk. Thank you. I can get you an iron desk from the 50s. Oh, great. And I wanted to ask you about this because I know that you once compared your discography, your body of work to weed, specifically certain albums having a different ratio of you know thc to cbd that's right yeah and i wanted to bring sony in on this just because you're right yeah you cannot help me understand this but explain to me like when you talk about your first album sake and then maybe comparing it to uh only god was above us your last album what are we talking about here how would you describe them in terms of ratio the weed ratio to cbd yeah well the first album would probably be high cbd um and and the the last album would be very like high thc it's it's a little well this is my you might have more experience than me but when yes sona has more experience than you yeah but we've had nine interventions for sona yeah and she always leaves them yeah and goes and gets more Take a high while you're doing this.

52:06You're like a hot chomp. Yeah, just eating edibles. Yeah, I'm definitely not an expert. Probably whenever I did that interview, that might have just been, I was just trying to think of anything that has ratio. I probably should have said chocolate and could have done cocoa versus sugar. That would have had like less connotations. You could have done something worse too. So, you know what I mean? But once I tried to make a rubric where I was trying to, you know, just anything to try to like think about where the band's going. And I've always believed every album should have a very different vibe.

52:37And so I've definitely thought about them on being on the spectrum of kind of like from preppy to goth. So that was a useful, you know, which is a useful rubric and maybe a little bit like outdoorsy versus indoors. I don't know. So, yeah, when I think of the first album, it's extremely sunny. And it presents as sunny and it presents as young and it presents as fun. And I think every, and I do think there's like elements of darkness in there and maybe. Oh yeah. But still, you know, it's about how it presents. So when I think of the current album, in many ways, it kind of feels like the inverse of the first album.

53:20It's also a kind of like reflective New York album, but it probably has, you know, the inverse THC to CBD ratio. I think to figure out the ratio on this podcast, you know, you know what I mean? Are we are we a mellow? Are we a mellow? Do we mellow you out this podcast or do we? Anyone can weigh in here like what the hybrid version of. Yeah. What are we? Yeah. Is this I think we're mostly THC. I think it's just like I don't even know what that means THC is what gets you high CBD is what makes you It's like CBD ointment If you have like an ache It's late You also partake of the ganja There's a little meth in there We're very meth-y I think we are very meth-y We're that tweaky cousin Who doesn't have teeth When you say we're very Methy I know I'm Methy I think if you're looking at the podcasting industry As a whole we're the Methy cousin It's Sona's CBD Gourley's THC And you're the Meth

54:34I've talked about this You're a nice You're a wrapping paper No I've had I've talked about this I had a doctor tell me Let's talk about your cocaine use And I was like, I've never done cocaine in my life. And he said, you've got to be honest with me. I'm your doctor now. He just took that from the way I behave. Yeah. Not based on your blood work. Yeah. No, no. Your demeanor. I've never done. Yeah. And then after Hot Ones, everyone, the Hot Ones were people just think, oh, I don't know what he's doing. He's probably having a, you know, meth enema every night. You seem like you're able to chill and you like to chill.

55:13Like you're able to relax. Yeah, I've had to learn how to do it a little bit. I said in the interview when we were first releasing the album that some people seemed to enjoy and some people made fun of me for it, but I said my passion in life is chilling. And it really is. And I kind of even remember when the band started getting going and things got kind of intense. Even back then, I remember thinking, I hope there's a time later in my life where I can chill more. I'm still waiting on that. I'm working on it. But maybe you'll be my... I want you, Ezra, to be my spirit animal. Maybe stop taking cocaine.

55:51It's just so good. I'll show up at your house in some white cloth and I'll show you how to chill. I've really needed to learn how to chill. I bet you've never in your adult life had as much time off as I've had. I have not. I haven't had wander around time. And that's not just because... I mean, my career has been a lot of it, but also... kids and this life with her demands. But I, That's Liza. But yeah, you know, Just demanding. Get over here! That's exactly how she sounds. She's the voice of the velociraptor in, Oh my God. Yeah, it's true. True story. Spielberg was like, that's it. Liza, I love you.

56:38And people are laughing because it's the exact opposite of who you are. But anyway, I would like to, I do aspire to that too. And there are times when we shoot these, I do travel shows now. And when I shoot those, there'll be times where I'm like in Dublin and, or I'm, you know, or I'm in, I don't know, I'm in some foreign land. I'm in Norway and I'm walking around and there's a little downtime and I'm walking around and I just love kind of being someone else. do you know what I mean you're just walking and you're going and getting a cup of coffee and you're in a place you've never been before you'll probably never be again oh yeah I have to do that all the time on tour when Rashida was shooting that show in Japan we lived there for six months and so you know she's working a crazy tv schedule our son was in school I didn't know that many people um and I didn't particularly feel motivated to go like set up a studio or something so yeah I I realized all you really need is, you know, obviously people need a little bit of like something to move towards in life.

57:40And I realized it could literally just be a coffee shop that's an hour and 20 minutes away. You walk there, get the coffee, read a little bit, walk back. That's most of the day. You know what I mean? What speed are you walking? There were so many. Well, I always felt like the classic day in Tokyo would be like. Picture taking a step. I take our son to school and then I would walk to this old school vinyl bar. This one's from the 20s that only plays classical music called Lion and Shibuya. I'd walk there. It was about like hour and a half walk. I would get there, have a coffee, read for an hour and then maybe do something in the neighborhood, then walk back.

58:20So easily that could turn into four and a half or five hours. Maybe you get back home at that point. It's like 5 p.m. At 5 p.m. you're allowed to say I did the day. Sure. You know, we start thinking about dinner and stuff like that. Oh, throw on going to the gym in the same day. That's the whole day. That sounds amazing. And it felt, and it did, but even then, even being somewhere like cool like Tokyo, you do that every single day. Like the novelty of being somewhere different wears off. And then you really just have to focus in on how much you really love chilling. You have to find the love. Well, you're talking to the chill chums here.

58:56We know about chilling. We chill. Yeah. I think my lesson in life is that no matter, you can be in the most beautiful place in the world. You can be in Rome. You can be in Venice. You can be in Florence. And if you're there long enough, one day you're going to go, I got to get out of this dump. Yeah, sure. With all this Italian food and beautiful art. I got to get out of this dump. Ezra, I'm going to let you go, but it's been really fun talking to you. Thanks so much for having me. I'm a fan. I'm an admirer. Likewise. And I love getting to talk to really cool, creative people that do things I do not understand.

59:35So you're in that category. So we'll see you next time. See you next time. I'm getting you a desk, by the way. It's coming tomorrow.

59:52As teased in the intro to this episode, we thought we might do some alternate historical timelines and Sona just pitched D-Day as a nice little boat ride, what'd you call it? Maybe they thought, hey, we're going to go on boats. It's a boat ride. No, they're headed to the beach. Yeah, they're going to the beach. Everybody, it's beach day. What happened was it was a very large beach picnic and then it got rowdy. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. That's why most of them were in trunks and they had towels with them. They did not have trunks and towels. Yes, they did. They did. That's what I heard.

1:00:27This is a, first of all, apologies to all the amazing heroes who gave up their lives. Especially the ones that are still living and listening. Yeah. That's true. We probably have a couple of... God, they would be almost 100 years old now. There's a few. Yeah. A few left. Their hearing's not good. Yeah. They'd be so mad. What? We weren't there for a goddamn beach vacation. So you're saying alternate history, meaning... Because earlier we were talking about how just exploring other possibilities. Or maybe a better or easier explanation for why things went down the way they did. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah.

1:01:03Right. Right. So we haven't discussed this. We're just going to brand it. All the things in my mind are so offensive. Come on, don't censor. Just go. I mean, the Manson murders. They thought it was their house. Okay. What? They thought it was their house. And that's what you do when you walk into a house and other people are there. You start, Sona. This is why I want to censor myself. Maybe he was an Avon lady. Okay. He was there to show them how to put on foundation. This isn't happening. I'm telling you, I wanted to stop talking. You guys told me not to censor myself. I wanted you to stop talking 15 years ago.

1:01:43I know, but this was the whole, you did the whole Lincoln thing. Yeah, but it's been enough time. Oh, these are fresh. Yeah, they're fresher. They're fresher. What's the time? What's the cutoff? I think the cutoff should be 1865. Oh, come on. I think anything later than that or not involving death and murder. I know. Do you know what I mean? I mean, that's a tragedy. those are tragedies you're talking about. They're awful. They're terrible. And so I'm distancing myself from you and what you said. I thought we were spitballing here. This is just doing it, baby. Oh my God. Oh my God. We're on an alternate history for this.

1:02:21Yeah. Okay. Hey, I'm spitballing here, baby. Hey, daddy-o. Yeah, there's an alternate universe where Sona's a comedy writer at SNL. Hey, babies, I'm spitballing here. And Lauren's like, who is this? Who is this woman? Hey, just spitballing here, Laurenzie. Hey, cat. Hey, catio. Catio? What do you mean, catio? Give us some more, but do them as that guy. You know, just like, all the ones that I have are not good. So we can't do that. Wait, we're talking alternate histories. Yes. Well, first of all, I'm the one who knows the least about history. This is why yours is the best. I know. Yours are great.

1:03:03Mine are all from this century. I don't, I mean, I can't. Go ahead. I'm not like the Salem witch trials. That's good. Great Depression. Salem witch trials. Great Depression? The Great Depression. Nobody died during that. Alternate history of the Great Depression. It was okay. I think it was a soup craze. A hot soup. There we go. I think the Great Depression, sure, there was some financial distress, but suddenly all across America, everybody really wanted hot soup. And they were willing to line up for it in the cold to get it. And the fashion trend was - Holes in your shoes. Holes in your shoes.

1:03:36Yeah. And also people wanted to like, I feel self-conscious riding trains in the car. I want to be out where the luggage goes. I want to ride the rails. So that would be another alternate history is it was a soup craze that turned - That's good. And yeah. And people's pockets were stuffed with cash. Yeah. But they were just lined up for soup. My dad lived through the depression Okay The real one? Yeah My dad's Oh not the soup crazy He didn't just want soup He was like in the depression He has told me everyone was fine We just went soup crazy He said we were nuts for the stuff He said it's like If you've got the thungries If you're a little thirsty and a little hungry And we said And we all, we were all doing the Charleston one minute.

1:04:31And then someone said, I need soup. And everybody went soup nuts, soup crazy. Soup to nuts. That's where that phrase goes from. Yeah, and they all went, they all lined up. Oh, no. And when you're lined up for a long time, your clothes get beat up. People were like, we should probably put on our rich fur coats. Nah, we'll lose our place in line for soup. So we look a little ratty. And then what ended it all? World War II came along and killed the soup craze. Yeah, people just got over soup. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, then it was time, you know, the minute Glenn Miller started, his tune started hitting them, everyone's like, the soup thing's over, things come and go.

1:05:03And everyone was into malteds, banana splits. Phosphates. Phosphates. An egg cream. Yeah. What a weird, an egg cream never, what did they call it where you were? When I was a kid growing up in the Boston area, older people called a chocolate soda. They called it a frappe, F-R-A-P-P-E. I don't think we have. Have you heard that? I've never heard that. I mean, I heard it in a modern sense, like a frappuccino. Yeah, but they called it a frap. And I just remember thinking at the time, what's going on? And then I heard that in New York, they would call it an egg cream. I've heard of egg creams, but I don't think any of these really got west.

1:05:42We were too smart for that. Sorry. You just called it a milkshake or something. Yeah, just called it what it was. And is it frap or frappe? Well, I think it's frappe, because it doesn't have a little beep-bew on top of it. Pew pew? Yeah. Pew pew. What is it called? Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay. But you guys knew what I was talking about, though, when I said that. There's a theory that in podcasts, it's all good. We're just riffing and it's all good. And you know what? It's not. And yet it is. And it's not. And yet it is. A pew pew. No, we can't. We can't. This one can't go out. It's already gone out. It's already gone out.

1:06:20Okay. People are hearing this as I speak. Yeah. So your fun riff about the murders by the Mansons is out. I thought we were doing a rewriting of his. I'm the only one who came here with ideas. You two dicks sat back and watched me flounder. First of all, you didn't come with ideas. You didn't throw it. You started, you said, I'm going to riff, baby. Let's spitball. It's terrible. I thought we were rewriting stuff. We got to end this. This can't go out. This can't go out. Yeah. This can't go out. Okay. You're going to send this one out, aren't you? Oh, yeah. Jesus Christ. I mean, I don't want to have to record a new segment and waste this.

1:07:00Awful. Yeah. Who am I introducing? This is not an intro. This isn't an intro? This is a segment. In fact, we even covered that this is a segment because it's carrying on from the same episode. And wait, and what am I doing here? I don't know. You know what? I was on television. I was on television. But don't you know - That was as high as I thought I could get. People took you off television and literally put you in a padded room with a team of nurses in disguise as podcasters. Took me off television. They did. They put me in here. Notice you're drinking tea and soft foods? I know. And you're on a farm.

1:07:34I know. I've been put down. I'm sorry. I'm like an old horse. They said, come over here. Literally in a padded room. Come over here. And then you cut to a bottle of Elmer's glue. Alternate Conan history. He's actually in a padded room. Not in a podcast. That's crazy. And you got to keep that in too Because I have no idea how this podcast works Or what we're doing I'm a chimp You guys put in a room And when I throw my poop at the wall You record it You sell it Alright well Hope you enjoyed What is it a podcast? Radio show? Not at this point Well that's the end of this And now will you introduce Ezra Koenig?

1:08:18We just did that I know, I know, I'm joking Oh, Jesus Funny joke You can't joke with people of my vintage like that Quickly, you've got to get out of here The house is on fire I'm on my way, kidding Ha ha Alright, peace out

1:08:49stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy.

1:08:56Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. You can also get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign up at SiriusXM.com slash Conan.

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