Judd Apatow Returns

24:27First of all, why tell you, oh, and one more thing before you hang up. And I just thought, this guy has Kermit taught me to read. Like, this is the warmest man. It's like Kermit telling you to fuck off. That's so great. But in a way, I think he was right. Like I was probably like repressed and self-conscious and, and like, he was smart enough to go, you know, like, like I could feel it when I was around Sandler, Jim Carrey as a kid, like they are just way looser than me and just charismatic. And I'm just like in my head. So I think it hurt me because I'm like, he got me. He knows I'm, I'm too shut down right now.

25:04And so then when writing opportunities came up, I thought, well, Jim Edson thought I should be a writer. I would just take the writing opportunities and do less of the performing things. I always think. And then he died. Yeah. Like not long after that. So I'm like. Before he could take it back. Yeah. Like I was so upset about it. And I'm just like, oh, God, what does he know? This jerk. And then they're like, he's dead. I'm like, oh, like he's the most important person in a young person's life. Sesame Street. I mean, I put in a billion hours watching it. So, yes. He sounded like Kermit when he spoke.

25:38Yeah. Which makes it even worse because it's Kermit saying you don't have warmth. You don't seem like a warm person to me. You lack warmth. Yeah, you lack warmth. You're just not warm. Fuck off and die. Go shine your shoes, you mutt. Yeah, I did get to clean it up with him later. I'm fascinated by the leap to directing. What made you think, oh, no, I will direct? Well, I went to college and studied screenwriting and took some directing classes, and I was just so terrible. my films I mean if I think about them I won't sleep at night about that I showed them to people yeah like I couldn't even believe that the two pieces of film you would tape together that you would see them and it would like change images I was like I was like a four-year-old and and so I lost confidence in my ability to do it I also had an irrational fear that I would get the eyelines wrong and I would cut a movie together and everyone would be looking in the wrong direction like that probably made me not do it for 10 years was an irrational fear of eyelines it is a real problem in your films i've gone back even your biggest hits no one's looking in the right direction very distracting and even now i don't know what the lenses do you know i always have to like hire like janish kaminsky to shoot it because i'm so bad that i need like a really smart person so i delayed it when we did the ben stiller show i never pushed to direct any of the sketches i just was so afraid and then i was working at larry sanders and then one day Gary Shandling just literally just walked in my office and goes, you're doing next week.

27:11Great. Off of nothing. Great. No conversation. He threw you into the deep end of the pool. Yeah. Like immediately and came down to set and, and helped me and was so helpful. Yeah. And, um, that was the first time that I ever did it. And I just had to figure it out. And then we did Freaks and Geeks and I did a bunch of those. Yeah. And a bunch of undeclarers. So your confidence is growing. Yeah. But once you start working with a huge budget and it's a movie, how terrified were you with your first what was your first directing experience in a movie well i just worked as a producer on anchorman yeah and that was mckay's first time directing a movie and so it was really fun to be there and watch adam go through the experience and adam was very improvisational and so in addition to this amazing script he wrote with will he you know he was doing what stiller was doing which is a lot of like playing in addition to the the script so when we were doing the four-year-old virgin i thought okay i'm gonna i'm gonna do that even with the dramatic scenes i think there's something good could come out of riffing.

28:06But I remember like two days before we were going to start shooting, I was just really nervous and it also grells the lead. So I'm going like, I think this is the guy. And I watched a TV show that Steve was on, like a sitcom that had been canceled and they were burning off the episodes, like a terrible show. And two nights before we started shooting, I just watched an episode and I watched Steve and I went, oh, this could be that bad. Like if I don't do a good job, I could make Steve look so bad because this show made Steve look bad. And Steve's a genius. And it really scared me to my core. Like, oh, there's a way to really be a terrible director.

28:45And so I just shot so much footage, like a million feet of film. I had Steve and everybody improvising for hours. The crew hated me. They were so bored. Like, it was the crew from The Unforgiven. For real? It was literally Clint Eastwood's crew. And guess what? Clint Eastwood famously is a one-take director. Do a take, and he's famously like, well, it's 5 o 'clock, everyone go home now. They love Clint, and then you come along. He's fantastic. And I'm doing like three hours of improv on like Steve peeing with a boner. Yeah. And the whole crew would look at me like, I can't believe, I can't believe this.

29:24And the DP, when he saw the finished movie, he just said to me, oh, now I see what you're doing. But they really did look annoyed, and that kind of made me scared. But I just thought, I just have to go into editing knowing that if it's not working, I have other stuff to fix it with. Whenever someone has a great success, they can actually send the wrong signal to other people. And I think one of the things you did is you made these terrific movies, got all these really funny people. And yes, you had a good script, but you're also letting them play. You've got a deep bench. You're trying different combinations of things.

29:57And I think people started to watch your early films and think, oh yeah it's just letting people riff yeah and you think well if it's judd and he's got all of his people and he knows exactly what he wants to get yeah i think other people who don't know that world took that as oh that's how you do it and then i remembered seeing just a ton of comedies where they would just let you know people who shouldn't be riffing walter cronkite and uh Dame Edna, and they'd be just, it would be painful. Yeah, because if you can tell an actor thinks they're being funny, it instantly is awful. Like if there's any self-awareness of like, this is really working.

30:40And so the cockiness of doing improv well, even if the jokes are good, like takes you out of the scene. It only really works if people are so deep in character that when you're in editing, it could seem seamless, almost like a documentary. Like when it works, it's like, oh, this was like a documentary of peeking in on people. And when it doesn't work, it looks like someone thinks they're hilarious. And then that creeps you out, you know, like you can't have that in it. I recently saw one of the Pink Panthers, which are my touchstone movies, Peter Sellers, Blake Edwards. It was one of the later ones.

31:12And I think it's a scene with Diane Cannon. And this is how clearly she was directed to do it. So it's not on her, but it's Clouseau's being Clouseau, Peter Sellers. And she's laughing and finding it really funny. And I was watching it with my son. This is a couple of years ago. And both of us were like, oh, no, no, you can't. No one in the scene can think he's funny. this is you know someone just poured sewage into our soup we can't eat this do you know what i mean it was just so awful and but i love that my son saw that too who was the guy that played cuso's boss herbert lom oh my god is he funny oh my with the with the twitching eye yeah yeah you didn't get that out first though i noticed conan got that first i was helping i thought she tried to jump in with herbert lom yeah yeah yeah and then she realized she doesn't know what we're talking about and she never ever will because i remember seeing being there and at the end of being there during the credit sequence they show raw footage i mean we had seen like bloopers before in like smoking the bandit but we but this was literally just a working like watching the dailies of him he's in the he's in the operating room and he's riffing and you know who that really pissed off her mom no oh good but uh good guess okay you're both idiots i just want you know we've been wondering are you really idiots but now the proof is in you can tell your doctors it's been confirmed no um they put that in and peter sellers flipped out and he said this ruins the whole movie it doesn't but he's kind of right that he's created this character and now you're going to show a blooper reel at the end it shows that they were just so nervous because you know the movie ends with him walking on water and it's this very surreal ending and then you cut to him going, you tell Raphael.

32:54It's like this really funny, dirty riff. It's basically him breaking up. He can't get through the speech without laughing, but he just was appalled that Blake Edwards put that in. I'm not Blake Edwards. I'm sorry. I forget who it is. Hal Ashby. There you go. But you could, you know, because you would think, oh, you're going to forget what the movie was about. But, you know, I had a similar thing at the end of This Is 40. I had over the credits, Melissa McCarthy and Leslie and Paul Rudd in the principal's office. Yeah. Because I just remembered Melissa riffing, saying the meanest things ever to the principal, was one of the funniest things I'd ever witnessed in any space.

33:31And so I put it at the end of the movie. I showed the movie to James Brooks and he's like, what do you think about having those bloopers in there? Like, what do you think in there? As he should, right? He's like, do you think that kills the spell of the movie? And I said, well, I kind of feel like I've put people through a big emotional journey for like two hours. And this is like my thank you for hanging in with me. And he goes, all right, man. Okay. So you don't want to take my advice. I'm one of the most iconic comedy writer producers of all time and directors, but I just offered you some advice.

34:08Now you talk about comedy nerd is the title of your book. And this is interesting because I didn't even know I was a comedy nerd when I was a comedy nerd, but now in retrospect, I see I was a comedy nerd. You were aware when you were a comedy nerd that you were in fact a comedy nerd. Yeah, because I think people were into like sports and I, you know, I like how you said sports. Like you're describing some inner gas out there in the end of the universe that no one's ever seen. People were into athletics. I'd be nerdier. And so the idea that I had found something that was just mine because no one else cared at all.

34:48I mean, even with Saturday Night Live suddenly coming on the air, it wasn't like there was anyone who liked it like 5 % as much as me. But I also thought, oh, it's cool that I have a hobby that no one else has. And I also really liked the fact that no one liked it. And I also thought there weren't many people in the country who cared about comedy. So even as a little kid, I thought I could get a job. There's only seems to be about 100 people doing this on earth. Maybe I could slip in if I really care about it. And you were living where? You were living - On Long Island. Had you ever seen famous people when you were a kid?

35:20Because I had no exposure to any famous people. And that fueled my belief that this is something that couldn't be attained if you lived in Brookline, Massachusetts. Like, no, you can't do that. That's a different universe. I had the opposite. My grandma was buddies with Toadie Fields. And she was like - Legendary comedian. Kind of like a Joan Rivers, self-deprecating comedian. There's a really funny clip of her on YouTube on the Mike Douglas show. And the other guest is Gene Simmons from Kiss. Oh, Jesus. Perfect. And she goes, wouldn't it be funny if we found out that you were just a nice Jewish boy under that makeup?

35:55And he goes, and he kind of makes some comment like, hey. And And then she just goes, yeah, I can tell from the hook. What? Jesus. Oh, what? Jesus. You're guessing she's Jewish as well? Yeah, she is. She is. Okay. She's allowed to do that. She was allowed to do that. Yeah. But so I went to see her as a kid and she had her leg amputated because she had diabetes. So she did this comeback tour where they came out like on a golf cart and they put her on the chair. And then she would do jokes about having had her leg amputated. And she had all these funny jokes about going to get the spare tire out of the car at the gas station.

36:31The guy's seeing her other leg, you know, it was all like, like riffing about it. And I remember getting standing ovations as like a 10 year old and thinking, oh, wow, she's made herself cool. Like she's the coolest person in the world. This kind of like chubby lady with one leg and like people are adoring her. So I think somewhere in my head, I'm like, that seems like a good, that was my, you know, 10 from your show of shows. Yeah. And then, of course, you get into Pryor, Steve Martin. That's just, you know. Well, that era, I mean, George Carlin albums were coming out. Those Richard Pryor albums were coming out.

37:02So, I mean, it's kind of insane when you look back, like between 75 and 85, what happened. So if you were obsessed with it, you were just getting fed Monty Python and then Second City. And I just couldn't get enough of all of it. And then the thought, well, I wonder how could I do something? Like, what would I do? And I didn't really have a take on what I would do. Right. I just thought, oh, I'll be a comedian. and that was never going that great. It was going like, okay, I would do some of those like evening of the improv shows. But then I met Stiller and then we came up with the Ben Stiller show and that's the thing that kind of switched the gear of the whole thing.

37:32It was also an interesting time because we came up sort of in the same wave. There was much less comedy. It was a big deal when we were kids. I mean, now we are those guys from the 19, from the Depression who we're talking about when we were kids would gather around the curvetop radio. But in the 70s, I would know that Marty Feldman has a weird comedy special that's going to come out this summer and there's only going to be three episodes of it. My brothers and I would wait for it. It was an occasion. Yeah, you track it. Andy Kaufman is going to be on Taxi. Yeah. And you knew months in advance.

38:04Yeah, now there's so much stuff. Like, people go, why don't people go to comedies? I'm like, because all they're doing is looking at good comedy like on TikTok all day and you could go, is it good or not? Yeah, it is. Like, someone like pooping in a hot tub is better than everything I've ever done. You know what I mean? It's the funniest falling down joke. It's the funniest second. That's what I keep thinking is that you've given, essentially given however many billion people there are on Earth. And you know the answer. Herbert Lomb. Eight. Herbert Lomb, yeah. There are Herbert Lomb, many people.

38:35Eight billion. Okay. Eight billion people on Earth. And let's just say, I don't know, let's just be kind and say four billion of them have a phone that can record, or five billion have a phone that can record video. if you've got that many people out there, if one of them is going to beat any professional comic mind because they were actually shooting their grandmother when a lightning bolt hit her and her wig went flying off and landed in the suit. And then they put a funny song to it. That's never going to happen to that person again. But they have put that out into the universe and you look at it and you go, oh my God, it's the footage you've shown me of the mascot slipping on the - Yeah, the guy falling.

39:16And I think I could get Judd, I could get all the funniest people I know. We could work really hard. None of us are going to come close to mascot slipping on the ice while they're trying to interview him. It's just so funny. And the person who shot that will never do that again, but it doesn't matter. Because there's a couple of billion other people out there who are going to take a shot. And we're competing against that. That's why I think one of the things people like best from my movies is Carell getting waxed. because it is the equivalent of a YouTube video of just watching someone being abused.

39:46As soon as it starts, you're like, oh, geez, this is real. I could just see it. Like the audience, we didn't tell them it was real, but they literally could just feel it. That's why like Jackass is the funniest thing ever. You just have to stop thinking you can compete with it and then just muddle along. I'm determined to do a better stunt than anyone on Jackass and I'm going to do it too. Yeah, you should. Conan O 'Brien died today. If you just want me to punch you in the nuts, I'm happy to do it. You mean again? We could take turns. Okay. Yeah. Do you have the ability to be sentimental and really attached to just like all the experiences that you've had in your career?

40:24Or have you worked on yourself? Because a lot of people can't. A lot of people were just, they stay in the moment and they're like, I gotta make this work. And I know that you work on yourself a lot. You read a lot of self-help books. And is this something you're working on to like trying to be able to access? I'm so lucky. I can't believe I get to do this, all that kind of stuff. I think, you know, my parents never talked about anything with therapy or religion as when I was a kid, like nothing. It didn't bring it up. Although my dad did, when my parents were getting divorced, leave out a book of what was called Growing Up Divorced, like hoping I'd read it.

40:58So he just left it on a coffee table. And then his way of helping you was just homework. Yeah. So like, so we never talked about all the pain. And then one day, like three years ago, I mentioned to him, like, you know, you never talked to me. The only thing that even ever helped me is I found this book in the house. And it was a little helpful. He goes, yeah, I left that book out for you. And I'm like, you left it out? Yeah, I hoped you read it. And I'm like, well, you didn't ask me if I read it. Like, you didn't know that I read it. Yeah, but, you know, it got moved. It was in a different spot.

41:34This is what passed for a real heart to heart in our era. I think when my mom was pregnant with my youngest brother, someone left a book out that was called Mommy and Daddy, you know, are having a baby. Yeah, I remember that one. And I remembered when you get to the crucial part of how the baby was created, it's just a drawing of the mommy and the daddy lying in bed with their covers up to their chin, looking straight up at the ceiling, smiling, and it just says, mommy and daddy had a nap. And you're like, they get to the crucial point. That is how your family does it. I know, exactly. Well, that's, that is how we do it.

42:13Oh, I have a very traumatic story about that book because that book was called Where Did I Come From? And it was like funny cartoons of like a sperm in a top hat, you know? And then they would say, you know, an orgasm is kind of like a sneeze but different. And then it would show... It comes out, not your nose, but your dick! Jesus, book! They had like the mom naked with her boobs out. It was like, some people call them jugs. Some people call them titties. This is not... We're not talking about the same book. My book had none of this. I would remember a sperm with a top hat. So this was the book in our world.

42:53And my friend had the book. And I was like, literally like seven or eight. And I'm like, I need more time with that book. And so I steal the book and I take it home. And then my mom sees my knapsack. She's like, what's this book? And I'm like, oh, I took it out from the library. She's like, well, there's no library card thing there. I'm like, I don't know. Maybe they didn't put it on that one. I don't know. But she's like, you're lying to me. I'm like, I'm not lying to you. That's where I got the book from the library. And, you know, so then she's like, well, when your dad gets home, we're going to have to deal with this.

43:23Oh, boy. So, you know, my dad comes home and he's just like, don't be a liar. Don't be a thief and a liar. And so my family didn't have the instinct to go, I think he wants to know the facts of life. He wants to know. They are pursuing the wrong avenue. Where did the book, where did the book originate? No, no, no. He's clearly crying out to learn about sex. Yes, yes, yes. but bookstore or library stolen or borrowed i never left it out for you in silence my dad comes home and then like i'm getting like a spanking like i'm gonna give you a spanking and i'm like i didn't steal the book and they're like just say you stole the book and we won't spank you and i'm and in my head i thought i will never admit it ever like i i literally like had an idea like never admit it no matter what happens right now and i just like took this like spanking And then my parents start like crying because they can't believe I'm so crazy that I won't admit I stole the book.

44:18And I'm like John McCain in the Hanoi Hilton. To compare your experience with John McCain at the Hanoi Hilton is treason, sir.

44:36and finally my dad's just like if you just admit it we'll never spank you again and i went yeah i stole the book and then they never spanked me again what a good deal you got though man you really won that negotiation but that's how you become the guy that uh makes the 40 year old virgin yeah you know that kind of trauma just lives in you there are so many um jason siegel's character in knocked up that i remember having that moment of seeing that in the theater and and so much i loved about that movie and still do but his character of the way he talks yeah to katherine heigl and says like oh the you know talking about her body yeah and it's he's actually being quite warm, but it's also he's he's not I don't think he's crossing a line, but he's on a line and he's kind of crossing it.

45:25It's douchey. It's yeah. But the other thing, too, is like he's just so and because he's so lovable and sweet, he's the perfect guy to do it. But I thought, oh, this is new ground. Like I haven't seen anyone do this guy before. I think he said, I see the milk came in. Yeah. Wasn't that one of his lines? Yeah. Yeah. You know, if someone said that to me, I'd be horrified, but I'd also be like, I'm impressed that you know that. Oh, no, he knows so much about what a woman goes through. And he's saying it with such empathy that you have to remind yourself he's a guy. He couldn't. But I mean, it's. Well, it was funny because when we were shooting Knocked Up, you know, we had gotten canceled with Freaks and Geeks and Undeclared.

46:07And I felt really bad because I thought all these people are so great. And we keep getting kind of crushed by people. So when they said OK to Knocked Up, I'm like, oh, I could make Like all of Seth's friends, everyone I think should be a star. Right. And just like, and in one movie, if I can make them all funny, then they all can like work and do cool things. And so everyone was very aggressive. So it was almost competitive on set. You know, I would even have, sometimes have two people do the same scene and go, hey, let's just see who does it funnier. Like it was kind of not even nice. Looking back, it was gladiator days.

46:40Yes. And, but everyone was a lot of high energy. and then Siegel was doing this kind of mellow douchey guy. And I remember thinking, I don't know if this is working, but I'm going to just go with it. And then I got into editing and I realized, oh, he had countered the vibe of everyone else and everything he did killed. He's playing a different part of the guitar neck. He's getting a different, he's in a different register completely from everyone else, which is fantastic. Yeah, no, so funny. Jason was always the funniest to deal with like on Freaks and Geeks when he was miserable and in love with Linda Cardellini and you knew if you asked him to sing Lady to her and make her cringe, he just was so hysterical doing it.

47:19Yeah. And he really is that sweet when you hang out with him or talk to him. He's got that sweetness. He can access that. It was funny the other night seeing Siegel and Seth at the Emmys. Yeah. Like sitting in the front row next to Harrison Ford. I'm like, I was like so excited. Something's been a fold in the universe. I think one of the big lessons that comes away from me when I talk to you or flip through your book is my favorite part of this whole business has been collaboration. To me, that's the great scam of this business. It's madness that you get to be around these people and it's just, it feels like I should have paid for the privilege, you know?

48:00Yeah, because you love it so much. Like I've been editing a documentary about Norm MacDonald, which will be on next year. So I've watched all of his clips with you. Yeah. And they're just, they're so good. you kind of can't believe how many times something magical happened on the show. You don't realize until you kind of really line up all the things Norm MacDonald did, how many times he did some breakthrough riotously funny thing. But the thing that I was delighted about while making the documentary is when you go through his whole life and you go through all the clips, there was a simplicity to Norm, which is he loved comedy more than anything, like comedy and his family, and that was kind of the main thing.

48:38and he just loved to make you laugh. Like more than almost anyone where you go, oh, that was just the whole thing to him. In fact, I think he said, well, maybe it was like Jon Stewart was talking about this and maybe I'm conflating it. He loved that Norm loved his joke so much that he didn't care how you reacted. Oh, that's the other thing. I mean, I remember this so clearly, Norm being on the show and being fantastic, but he had more nerve than anyone I've met in comedy. so he's done and he leaves the stage the band's playing and andy leaned over and said norm doesn't care in a way that frightens me and i was like that's exactly it it's just terrifying because he will he just and you can see him on update all those times he would lean in and hold the camera if the joke doesn't work he slows down he slows down he's not gently speeding up to get onto the next one.

49:35He is, uh, and he just, I don't know. He was a magical, magical person who somehow knew I won't be here long. I apologize to no one. This is how it should be done. Yeah. Because when I was a kid, like the dream was like, could you ever be around Bill Murray or Gilda Radner just to even watch it happen? So sometimes I think the only reason why I ever did anything was just to be able to watch like, like all the work I ever did was just to sit in a chair on the anchorman set and watch them sing Afternoon Delight. Like, oh, I found a way to have credibility to be a fan. Yeah, yeah. You know? It's a lovely thing.

50:10I just always think this is a dodge of some kind. We snuck our way into this thing, and soon they will find out and escort me out. But I'll take it. The book is called Comedy Nerd, and it's a delight. It's just so nice to have all of this here, and even just flipping through it, you get hit with so many images of hilarious moment, hilarious moment, hilarious moment, you know, and there's photos of you in there. I know I didn't, and I didn't clear them. And the money goes to a fire, uh, charities. Now that I'm suing you, the money goes to me. An 826. Breaking news. Conor O 'Brien taking fire funding, much needed fire funding over a small dispute with Judd Apatow.

50:55Um, and you've got all these, you're constantly, making these documentaries, which this is a new thing for you. I mean, the first one I think you did was Gary Shandling. Is that right? Well, the first one was 30 for 30 about Dwight Gooden and Daryl Strub. Yes, that's right. That's right. But I think the first comedy one was what you did for, and I think I told you at the time, this is a mitzvah for Gary because Gary really, really deserved the full treatment and you gave it to him. And then I'm looking forward to all these other ones and I'll be in some of them, I suppose. You're in a lot of them.

51:28You're talking about Elvis during the Maria Bamford documentary.

51:35He just, Elvis just had a thing. It's Maria Bamford. I'm just talking about it. Maria Bamford took black music and white music and fused them at a time after World War II. All right, go with God. That's what I say to you. Thank you.

52:02We're back. Part two with fake lawyer, David Melmed, who works here at Team Coco. We're talking to him about music rights. We are talking, I was going to get there. Oh, sorry, because this is a different episode. Among many other things, too. I mean, you devoted a huge chunk to how good-looking he is. Unlike a certain lawyer, I don't drone on and on. Unless you're talking about how attractive he is. Well, and you're being built, so we can talk as long as... Your meter's running? Absolutely. We can go all day. We can go all day. Fortunately. All day, buddy. I love that. I'm going to get a bill tomorrow for$900.

52:38Keep going. I love this. David Melmett is his name. He does a wonderful job here at Team Coco. And we had a legitimate question. We're following up this previous conversation we had. This is part two. Can we sing popular ditties on the show, even if we're singing them badly, out of tune, using incorrect lyrics? Do we still have to pay? And David, your answer was maybe. And the thing that got my attention is that you say whatever happens, you have to start making phone calls and writing emails to people to ask if we can buy it, which is sounds draconian to me. It can be. But it's also you have to look at what you're trying to clear.

53:17So you mentioned Led Zeppelin, Beatles, Michael Jackson. I mean, these are iconic bands, music. if you were, let's say, in that band and you created this original work, right? You would not say you necessarily want to be compensated for it, but certainly credit. And that's something that you have brought into the media space that you are protecting. Okay. So I think you had mentioned Conan before, wouldn't you want your material out there being promoted? Wouldn't you want to be on the Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend podcast of music? It depends on who you're trying to copy, if you will. Okay, I'll be Paul McCartney.

53:58Sure. You've called Paul McCartney because I sang a quick snippet of Let It Be. You call me, hello. Sure. Paul McCartney came on your podcast. No, I'm doing it. I'm doing it right now, David. I understand. David, this is a role play. This is a role play. Are you a lawyer and not a comedian? I wouldn't be talking to Paul McCartney, but if I had been. No, no, listen. David, your improv skills are terrible. I would not be talking to him. That would not happen in this scenario. But if I was. Okay, that's what we're doing right now. You just rang the phone. Hello, who's here? Who's there? Hello, is this a telephone?

54:38Who's here? Who's on the phone? Is this, I just picked up me phone and I was wondering, you went all jingly-wingly and I picked it up. Who's there, please identify yourself. This is David Melamed with Team Coco slash Sirius XM. I work with Conan O 'Brien. Oh, Conan O 'Brien. Yes. He was on his podcast, I think, and he's interviewed me a few times. He's a very good musician and singer. What was your question? My question is, we would like to use a few seconds of your Let It Be. Oh, that's not fucking happening. No fucking way. that's a song I wrote and that's a big song 1969 it was on Let It Be and you know I just had a little tune in my head and then I came in and he said hey John what do you think Let It Be and he was like I don't know and I was like oh that's Ringo and Ringo was like I'll just play the drums and then George was like oh I'm kind of grumpy and then I said you know he made it so no I wouldn't what do you want to do to Let It Be what do you want to do Hi this is Michael Jackson I think I actually own all the rights so I'm willing to sell That's a great point Oh, I forgot to mention that I'm here having tea with Michael Jackson's ghost.

55:50Oh, by the way, boo. That sounds so scary now, is it? He wouldn't say boo. He would say boo.

56:00Oh, so it's so funny. I never knew Sona was the super funny one, but she is. She's like the funniest one on this podcast. And she was just Conan's assistant. I'm kind of a deep fan. I go really deep on this stuff. What? Paul, you know who I am? Oh, yeah. You're hilarious. Oh, cool. Remember you were on the tour and you've done a lot of funny videos with Conan? I follow you religiously. And hey, shout out to the Armenian community. Oh, my God. Yeah, I'm sorry about... I read your book. Michael, could you just lay back a little bit? Sure. Okay. I'll be over here. Oh, he just walked out of the room backwards.

56:33Something he does. You know, with the Beatles, we just sang the songs. We didn't do all the leaping and the jumping around, but he did it really well. So listen, David Melman, do you mind if we switch to Zoom for a second because my line isn't so good? Can we switch over to Zoom? Absolutely. Oh, fuck your hands. Thank you. Thank you, Paul. Oh, much appreciated. Does that change your opinion? You've got like a golden glow and I don't fancy the fellas too much. But I've got to say, you're a very good looking. Thank you. You might not be a lawyer. I've heard you question. You're a very good looking fella.

57:05Thank you. Does that change your... Oh, not at all. The law is the law. do you mind undoing that one button just undo it this little bit no David whatever it takes to get these cleared so you know what I would say you know what I'd say whatever it takes now the lawyer's the funny one the assistant's the funny one the lawyer's the funny one and where's Conan and all this he's been quiet for a while haven't heard I guess he makes all the money he's out counting the money oh I got to make some pounds I make some pens David I got to go but no you can't have let it be It's no way it's a special song to me.

57:39Unless it's something Conan wants and then I'll do it instantly. Well, there you go. Okay. Much appreciated. We are going to send you a sample, Paul, of Conan singing Let It Be in His Form. And I think we're going to change your tune. You know what? No pun, Paul. Cut to the chase, David. I give you oral permission right now. And I'd like to give you oral another way. If it's okay, I'd also like to, from this point on, give Conan a songwriting credit. it's Lennon, McCartney, and O 'Brien on Let It Be. Fantastic. I think what he's doing is a bang-up job. He's surrounded himself by people who are very funny.

58:14Let me write, I'm writing this down. Yeah. Paul, thank you. Well, anyway, I've got to sign off now and turn it back over to Conan. He's, what a career, what a career arc. Oh, fantastic. I love him. He's great. He's amazing. I'm going to go now. Okay, thank you. Okay, doop-dee-doo. Oh, that's a good song. I think I'll write that down. Doop-dee-doo. That could be pretty good. Doop-de-doo, doop-de-doo. Let's put that out. Okay, I'm back. Okay. I would say that would get me nowhere, and I'll tell you why. Because it's oral. No. Oh. Because it's Paul, and it... Okay. Oh, I see. You need it from the actual people who...

58:44Now, if he wrote... You know, we need the publishers, so we need the writers, so I assume Paul and who else wrote Let It Be? Help me out here. Well, it's... I mean, McCartney wrote it, but it's back in the Lennon-McCartney days. Sure. Okay, so we would go to Lennon's estate, right? We'd have to go to Paul. Okay, Paul's great. Let's do it. Then we have to go to John Lennon's estate. Then we would have to go to the record label and say, hey, we would like to do this. What a nightmare. It's a nightmare. I'll tell you what. I hate your life. I mean, I wish you had a better life because this is an awful job.

59:12Well, you know what? It's probably, you know what? It's actually a problem song because I'll tell you why I like doing it. Because if you come to me and say, we want to do this, I think my joy is to try to make that happen. It really is. Like I. It's good for you. I really, because once we get down to step 12 and I can, I have not been able to convince you to do something else. And you say, look, Conan wants to do this. Then you just try to make it work. This is amazing. And I'm not my money. Can I just chime in with a genuine statement that David is to his credit. And this is he, everyone loves him for a lot of reasons.

59:45But one of the reasons is that he is a genuine problem solver. Anytime you come to him with an issue, his answer is yes, we'll figure it out. At Team Coco. There's a lot of people around here who just want to bitch and moan and make problems. You are the rare person who actually gets in there and tries to solve a problem. You're like a fixer. You can get rid of a body. That's a real morale booster for the team. Oh, I think, you know, I want to call this company Deadweight. 90 % is just pure rot, you know, and everyone's just bitching and moaning all the time. And Jeff's back is out again. And, you know, whatever.

1:00:17I don't want to hear it. Everyone shut up. Can you just, if he does do something and someone calls and says, hey, he used our music. Can you just be like, no, he didn't. Yes. What about lying? Yeah. Just lying or hanging up on them or like just avoiding it completely. What are you talking about? This is a pizza place. You know, that kind of thing. So you're saying that a podcast that goes out to a million. We get a million. Our numbers are way higher. Okay. Four million. Whatever. You're on our side. I don't really follow the numbers or even listen, but I know it's a lot. I know it's a lot. You're one of the biggest podcasts in the world.

1:00:49Okay, biggest podcast in the world, and you're saying that wasn't Conan, right? Yeah. I don't know if that would fly. Okay, that's what I would do. I want to say that I have just made some jokes today about, oh, you're not a real lawyer. You are a lawyer. You're a terrific lawyer. Thank you. We're lucky to have you. I'm going to double down on maybe the best looking guy on staff. Sorry, Blay, but Jesus, Mary and Joseph. Well, thank you. I try to get on as many Zooms and meet in person. You know, it does help the conversation. It does help the conversation. It does. It would help a lot. Paul and Paul.

1:01:20Now, I don't know what's going on in your personal life. What's happening there? Wow. Stop! What? You can't ask these questions. I can't ask that. And he's the lawyer. Hey, and guess what? If you don't answer me, I'll fire you. Well, what am I going to do about that? I'll tell you what I'll do with that. I actually work for SiriusXM now. Not Team Coco. I don't know if you can fire me, Conan. Because I'm a phone call to Mr. Scott Greenstein. There you go. And you're a pounding pavement. That also means it's okay for you guys to have a relationship. That's true. Hey, if you work for SiriusXM, we can have a relationship.

1:01:49We can.

1:01:53My personal life. Out of control? Out of control. David, I applaud you. I applaud your good works, your golden hue, and everything that you do for this podcast. Your golden hue. He does. You're obsessed with it. He's a renaissance painting. I don't know how they let him out of the Louvre without setting off an alarm. David Melmed, our thanks to you. Thanks for clearing this up. and I guess we just Clearing it up? We can't sing a song. What? I am no closer to understanding anything. We can't do anything. But I think that's good though. I think that's where we should leave it because we have plausible deniability if he educates us too much.

1:02:28That's right. I consulted my lawyer and I'm still confused. What are you gonna do? Sue me? Uh oh. Absolutely. David, thank you. Yes. Thanks for having me. And when they go, you sir, you stole our money and it's here on this podcast and you go, I wasn't listening to that. I was too busy sexually harassing my lawyer. That's your defense. Sir, I was busy making my lawyer very uncomfortable. So you don't have a leg to stand on. And what a leg. Yeah. I didn't get started on his cabs. All right, peace out, Tupac. But not going to sing any of the song. Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend. With Conan O 'Brien, Sonam of Sessian, and Matt Gorley.

1:03:15Produced by me, Matt Gourley Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Nick Liao Theme song by The White Stripes Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino Take it away, Jimmy

1:03:30Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair And our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns Additional production support by Mars Melnick Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. You can also get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign up at SiriusXM.com slash Conan. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

1:04:15Thank you.