Maria Bamford

18 Sep 2023 · 1 h 4 min

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In short

Podcast Notes: Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Episode with Maria Bamford

Episode Overview

  • Title: Maria Bamford
  • Description: Maria Bamford joins Conan O’Brien to discuss her memoir *Sure, I’ll Join Your Cult: A Memoir of Mental Illness and the Quest to Belong Anywhere*. They cover topics such as her experiences with mental illness, her journey in show business, and reminisce about Conan's 30-year anniversary in late night television.

Key Participants

  • Conan O'Brien: Host
  • Maria Bamford: Guest comedian and author
  • Matt Gourley: Producer and co-host
  • Sona Mufsesian: Producer and co-host

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Key Themes and Discussions

  1. Friendship and Connection
  2. Maria expresses her excitement about the potential friendship with Conan, highlighting the podcast's goal of fostering real connections.
  1. Maria Bamford's Journey
  2. New Memoir: Bamford discusses her memoir which delves into her struggles with mental illness and the search for belonging.
  3. Background: She shares humorous anecdotes from her early jobs, including a bizarre experience performing a *Star Trek* character at a mall.
  1. Comedy and Mental Health
  2. Open Discussion on Mental Illness:
  3. Maria talks candidly about her battles with OCD and bulimia, emphasizing the stigma and challenges surrounding mental health treatment.
  4. They discuss the difficulties in accessing mental health care and the emotional complexities tied to money and treatment.
  1. Conan's 30-Year Anniversary in Late Night
  2. Conan reflects on his journey over 30 years in the late-night show landscape, recalling the challenges and milestones.
  3. Notable Guests and Influence: He mentions how feedback from audiences and young comedians shaped his perspective and career.
  1. Humor in Dark Times
  2. Maria masterfully intertwines humor with her struggles, making poignant observations while ensuring the conversation remains light-hearted.
  3. She emphasizes that laughter can be a powerful tool in discussing serious topics like depression and mental health.
  1. Social Commentary
  2. Maria and Conan touch on topics such as societal expectations, the absurdities of modern life, and the challenges of performing stand-up in various contexts (e.g., during meal times).

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Important Quotes

  • Maria on Mental Illness: "Once you name it, you take away its power."
  • Conan reflecting on Comedy: "I feel very fortunate today to just have been around for this ride."
  • On Performance: "I think you need empathy for those who are hurt, like they're hurt by me asking for money."

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Conclusion This episode of *Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend* offers a delightful blend of humor and heartfelt discussions on mental health, the pursuit of belonging, and the trials of comedy. Maria Bamford's unique perspective and Conan's reflective insights create a meaningful dialogue that is both entertaining and enlightening.

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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:03Hi, my name is Maria Bamford.

0:07And I feel excited about being Conan O 'Brien's friend If he needs my friendship Also don't want to push it on him Fall is here, hear the yell Back to school, ring the bell Brand new shoes, walk and lose Climb the fence, books and pens I can tell that we are going to be friends Yes, I can tell that we are going to be friends

1:01That's the key. Sitting here with, of course, Matt Gourley. Matt, how are you? Hi, I'm good. Thanks. Usually I introduce Sona first, but I thought I'd flip it up. Oh. Show you that I'm agile. I have an agile mind. Sona, how are you? I shake things up. How are you? Introducing Matt first. Yeah, yeah. You never know what's going to happen here. Keep it fresh. Keep it fresh. How are you? I'm good. I'm not bad. I'm cool. Okay. All right. Very good. Do you want me to say more? No. I think that's adequate. You know, you did the minimum amount that you should do. I am fine. And you. I think AI is... Do you think AI can ever replace Sona?

1:34Everyone's talking about what AI can do. There already are AI podcasts of, say, Joe Rogan, and I'm sure there's already been some of you. You think so? Yeah, probably. I think this is very easily AI-able. I don't know. My mind is so hard to program or categorize. I could see algorithms being confused by my magical brain. Really? Because the listeners should know that Sona and I are just sitting in a room with an AI machine right now. I think the two of you are not AI-able, but I think I am. That's not true. I laugh and I just go, oh, God. Like, that's what I do, and that's fine. You're right. Yeah.

2:10We could probably just take clips of Sonar. Oh, absolutely. You know, oh, boy, huh. Oh, really? Really? That's what you think? Yeah. And then we just split our salary? Well, I would retain it all, I believe. Oh, what's in it for me, then? Oh, nothing. You get nothing, and I get more falcons. I really got into falconry over the summer. Yeah. Oh, you did? Wouldn't it be great if that was something I got into and I had the glove and I had a whole bunch of falcons and they had the little blinders on and I had the jackets that they wear when they - You should do that. No, you'd be the least falcony guy that's ever falconed.

2:47Because you'd just be like this the whole time, like covering your face. Cowering. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd wear a, you know what people wear when they're fencing? I'd wear one of those complete cages around my face. and the falcon would be rolling his eyes a lot. Oh, God. They'd put the blinder on just so I couldn't see it roll its eyes. That's what they're there for. I would have sarcastic falcons. Sarcastic, passive-aggressive falcons. Anyway, I've always been fascinated by the idea of falconry. You should do it. Have you ever done it? No. I think we did on late night, we did so many animal segments over the years that I know I've probably had, I'm sure I've had a falcon on my shoulder and a falcon on my arm.

3:30Fans can look for it and I'm sure it'll come up instantly. Whenever I say no, I've never done blank, instantly someone can find it on the internet. So yes, I'm certain that I've done it on television. But no, I don't even know how I would... Actually, to be honest with you, I don't even know what it is. I think it's a thing now actually in the LA area, like a sort of thing that hipsters can go do and stuff. Hipsters do everything that comes from another time and has no use. Right. Do you know what I mean? like churning butter. Yeah. Axe throwing. Axe throwing. Surgery. What? I want a hipster surgeon.

4:06When it's time for me to have surgery, I want a hipster to do it. These are authentic rust-laden tools from the 18th century. Exactly, yeah. These are, no, and exactly, we do surgery before, the way it was done before the 20th century because it all got so sterile. Yeah. We do it with these rusty tools and we all grow weird beards and we don't clean them. And then the beard, the oily beard hair falls into your open wound. Fuck you, hipsters. Is that what we're doing? No, we're not doing that. Oh, I thought we were doing that because you guys got a little... That's half of Matt's friends. You got to admit.

4:45No, I don't have hipster friends. You don't have hipster friends? Come on. No, I don't think I do. I think I have pretty square friends. Okay. Yeah. Well, some squares are also hipsters. I guess that's true. Maybe. I don't know. You can't judge yourself from within, huh? What? What are you guys talking about? You know what? You've tried to sell that poster to college campuses. You can't judge yourself from within, and it's a cat hanging on a limb. Or it's Einstein sticking out his tongue. I bet I could sell that to hipsters. You can't judge yourself from within. It would be great to just come up with terrible slogans and try and sell them to college campuses.

5:21You would be so good at that. you're the one that you knew you had to be and then there's a turtle bumping heads with another turtle just try to sell those on campus watch yourself get married I mean just what's the image no the image never has anything to do with the saying like this glass of water yeah it's just that glass of water and then the saying is whenever you think you were that was what it was it's just a yellow Volkswagen it's a yellow Volkswagen and tomorrow is yesterday's idea of what you ate. And then it's a baby elephant sleeping wearing a sombrero. We're going to sell that to somebody.

6:07Yeah, we really have to. These are good. Merch. I'm smelling merch. Merch. I want more. Can you do another one? These are fun. Well, okay. Come on, make me laugh. Clown. This AI is working pretty well. It is working really well. It gets him. Sunshine is the regret you used to know during daylight. And then just put underneath it, Thoreau. You can just put anybody's name under it, Thoreau. You know what I'd love to do is just sell a whole bunch that are like, shit's going down, Gandhi. That's good. You know, that's what I want to do. Who farted? Fack array. Back that shit up, Jane Austen. I want to sell those right now.

6:57We're on it. Right? Isn't that the one? Isn't that? Back that shit up. Jane Austen.

7:12That's what we absolutely have to do. We're going to get sued by everyone's estate. Oh, come on. They're not paying attention. Fair use. Their copyright is expired. Everyone knows how Jane Austen talks. Yeah, if anyone knows, it's you two about copyright law. There we go. We're good. I'm crying. I'm actually crying a little bit. Back that shit up got me really good. Drop it like it's hot, ho. Melville.

7:46I'd hit that. Mary Todd Lincoln. Oh my God. We're going to sell these. We should. And I don't see any legal or moral reason why we should. I don't think there could be. Because you can do anything with those historical figures. If you've liked what I've just said, write to me, care of make that poster, dude. At 2222 Scooby-Doo Avenue. Yeah. And I'll get right back at you. Postage included. No city, no state. Oh, come on, man. Yeah. State of cool. Oh. City of here and now. Yep. Shabba doo ding dong. Habba scabba day. A dab doot doot doot. I got to pull the plug on this. What is wrong with you? I'm the one person, my wife is going to have me attach to a machine and then pull the plug.

8:40Just so she can. She's going to have the plug inserted just so she can pull it and I'll be perfectly healthy. Smart. All right, we got to get into it. Yeah. My guest today is a hilarious comedian who starred in the Netflix series Lady Dynamite. She now has a new memoir titled Sure, I'll Join Your Cult, a memoir of mental illness and the quest to belong anywhere.

9:07Maria Bamford, welcome.

9:12I've talked to so many comedians, either on Late Night, but especially on this show, and they talk about these early jobs they've had. People have had some really crazy jobs, but you had one that you talk about in the book where it's early, you're trying to get into show business. It hasn't quite gelled in stand-up yet. And you get this gig doing some kind of a Star Trek show. Deep Space Nine. Deep Space Nine, but it's a live show that you did at a mall? Yes. What? And, okay. Paramount had a subsidiary named Paramount Park, so I'm sure has been dissolved. and a man named Stan ran it. It's always a Stan.

9:53Stan would tell us about fantastic new gigs. We're doing a Jack of the Brocks promotion. Do you and a Klingon want to go out? And we'd drive out to Pomona and stand around saying things like, Greetings, I'm Major LeLanka of the planet Bajor. Get the fuck away from me. So you had to memorize? You had to memorize all this stuff. Well, I can sometimes be half-assed when it comes to certain jobs. So stand-up I really care about, but that one, I know I could have gone deep into the Bajoran history and Star Trek itself. I did not. You didn't do it? Were you in makeup and stuff too? Oh, yes. This is my genetic makeup.

10:41Do you speak of spirit gum? oh so you had to if any kid said to you hey nice mask you'd have to say mask of what do you speak earth creature that kind of stuff yes oh yes well that's what i did no one told me to do it did you go oh it's just a natural natural gift and what is the uh in you go in the book you talk about going off script a bit yeah yeah which was really funny well because the i did read a little bit of up those horns and it turned out they were kind of what i felt like it was sort of the world war ii jewish experience of that uh realm and so um and this is sci-fi yeah it's not real but you decided to go deep into that and then bring that to the mall and tell kids about it is that correct my parents the last i saw from them i was in the attic of my parents house yes we had houses Yes!

11:36We were not animals. Oh, you have a wrinkly face. We are not too different, you and I. And I was playing with my paper dolls, and yet all I have left is my parents' this bloody paper doll. I heard their screams. You were saying this to kids at a mall. Listen. Hey, lady, I just want some Jollibee. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got a 45-minute shift. I got to keep their attention. We're in the food court. Oh, that would have my attention. Our whole race was destroyed! Oh, you think I should be with a Ferengi? Because you'd like to see what would come out from us. What child we would have. You just think of all the kids out there right now that are going to be stand-ups and write books like yours because they went to the mall one day.

12:34Oh, there's a fun alien. How dare you look at me?

12:41I was molested by a grorgar. Nine tentacles it was. Even though I felt a little pleasure, that pleasure. Oh, wait a minute, what? Well, the confusion of the trauma is that you can't feel the shame of pleasure.

13:04we've got to get this to the Star Trek people. This is good stuff. This is very good stuff. No, but I want to acknowledge that the Star Trek, it is a real world, and I did not mean to poop on it. Well, I don't think you did. Okay. It's not like when you do a show, you have to acknowledge the native land that you're on. It's fair game. No, you do with Star Trek, too. You do acknowledge this was all taken from Gene Roddenberry. Let me issue Okay, first of all An apology You have to tweet out an apology Number one, I have to find out what I did wrong That's the thing when you do an apology You say, what is it that I did wrong?

13:43Oh, Maria, you know You know, deep down, you know No, because then I have to That's what I do Then I repeat what the person says that I did You know, paraphrasing And then I take that in And then I order a book About it and then I say, I bought this book. Is that a book to get? And then they usually say, yeah. I mean, I didn't really, it wasn't a big deal to me. I was just, I didn't think you would read this.

14:15So wait, Maria, the torture you put yourself through in the smallest ways and you're such a lovely person. I want to lift that burden from you. I do. I'm not going to. No, no. But I, you know. There's a delightful safety in OCD in feeling, you know, that feeling of like, oh, if I did just the right thing, then you can find relief. It never happens. It never happens. Everybody's wondering. But no, yeah, I like to feel like I fully executed the best. I'm sorry. Have you had to apologize for things publicly? Oh, sure. Yeah, pretty much my whole career. but it's been I think of my 30 years is one long one long apology one long backing out of a cocktail party you want to give it another shot right now just to cover some more we've covered it okay but America you know I meant well my mom at the end of her life was just sort of like constantly saying sorry sorry sorry you know just sort of like a water off a Doug's back like I'm just gonna keep going and apologizing as I go whoops whoopsie it's not a bad strategy because sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry means that you're gonna get it right sometimes yeah exactly it's not a bad default it's a good thing for you to just sort of do now yeah I don't think so okay now we're in an interesting time as we record this because the writer's strike is going money let's talk about it well wow you really lit up right oh my god Yeah.

15:54Oh, people are fighting over money and all kinds of stuff. And so but one of the things about the writer's strike is that there's this rule that and we all want to do the right thing that podcasts, you know, can't promote certain projects. But I am allowed to talk about books that I love that people have written. And that's why I wanted to talk to you, because you've written a book. Sure, I'll Join Your Cult, which is a fantastic title. Sure, I'll Join Your Cult by Maria Bamford. and you are adored. You are a beloved stand-up comic and you wrote a fantastic book and I just wanted to start off by saying congratulations and to everyone listening right now, go get this book.

16:37It's fantastic. And there's so much to talk about here because your whole career has been, you are so open about what you've been through and man, you've been through a lot. Listen, I like to, well, monetize self-realization. Yeah, I like telling everybody everything, and it turns out that's a cash cow. So were you going to say monetize your pain? Yeah, well, or just like, have you ever read the book The Giving Tree? Yeah, yeah. Where, which I'm trying to rewrite it as The Giving Condo. All there was was the shade of the condo. You can lay in the shade. You can't come in because you sold it to Russia.

17:21the giving tree the premise is the tree gives everything until finally all there is is a stump for the little boy to sit on who is now an old man and yeah I have nothing left to give except you know stories I do like I like open book accounting that's one of my last things I had to give I'm a multi-millionaire I am worth 3.5 million dollars in assets so that's multi and you know so I feel like my dad passed away which means he was a physician I am white. It was generational wealth. So I'm doing okay over here. And I think the one thing I have to give is full, you know, open book accounting. Full disclosure.

18:00Yeah, because I love companies that do that. Chobana Yogurt, where they taught everybody in the company, got to take accounting classes, and then find out what everything in the yearly report means. so there's actually some way you can argue for a raise or to go oh that's why I'm paid that amount I'm listening listen I go a different route than Chobani see I go more of a I don't know let's say Vladimir Putin route it's no one's business how much wealth there is in the walls of the Kremlin no mysteries And yeah, if people ask any questions, they just go away. Yes. There's a lot of poison. Poison in the muffins.

18:47Yeah. By the way, Gourley, have a muffin. Wipe my doorknobs before I use them. No, but it's. And I put that in the book. Like I put in a financial bit of like, because I find that stuff fascinating. And not because I know anything. Like I don't know anything about money, nor do I know if I'm doing the right thing or the wrong thing. But it is such an emotional topic. I find it, you know, people get so mad or so embarrassed or so ashamed, including myself. Like every time I see my accountant, I'm just like, it doesn't matter what they're saying. You know, oh, you're in the same amount. Oh, how dare you?

19:30Like, it doesn't, yeah, the emotions don't match the numerics. It's interesting. It can flip so quickly from the flip between gratitude that you have something and rage that you don't have more of that thing is so instantaneous and it's such a human thing. Yeah, there's somebody asking, have you ever been asked to do something for free? Oh, yeah. Right. So, which sometimes, you know, if I think, like sometimes, let's say, and this is a current shtick I'm working on, but Grimace. who I know Grimace, it doesn't even matter who the person is, but sometimes you get a text from a famous person at around midnight on a Saturday night who says, you know, in sort of a business, you up?

20:18And let's just say it was Grimace, which is the liminal space between the Hamburglar and Mayor McCheese. Yeah, I remember Grimace. Yeah, lovable. Wasn't he the, he was the purple guy. Purple mountain. Yeah, purple, but didn't he represent the shakes, the milkshakes? Well, didn't they just put out a Grimace shake in commemoration of his birthday or something? Yeah, yeah. No, he's definitely doing well. Grimace is finally having his moment. Yeah, and I love Grimace. Yeah. But then Grimace said, hey, do you want to work on this thing tomorrow? Wait a minute, Grimace, the character from McDonald's?

20:47It's a placeholder. It's a placeholder for someone I know. Vladimir Putin. Oh, I see. Let's just say it's Vladimir Putin. I see. You could have just said someone I know. Why are we talking about Grimace? Because it has to have the weight and the celebrity and the authority and the fear involved, the anxiety involved of meeting someone as powerful as Grimace face to face in your own living room. Yes. Like there's some sort of like your new shake a little bit. And I basically, and I also, the minute you said Grimace, I know what celebrity you're talking about. But go ahead. So I, you know, I texted all my friends in Debtors Anonymous, which is a 12-star program, which is a lot like Tony Robbins.

21:29If Tony Robbins was a small, it was about 4 '9". and talk like this. Anyways, but, and I said, you know what, I really want to get paid for this. And so I asked, I asked Grimace for about 800 bucks and 300 bucks was to pay the venue that he wanted to use in my neighborhood. 100 bucks would be the tips for the barista to keep it quiet. 200 bucks to, oh no, 100 bucks for the person who we were going to commandeer into doing something with us. And then 300 bucks for myself because I have an addiction to clogs. Anyways, This all sounds, by the way, this all sounds very reasonable. Reasonable. Yeah.

22:08So now Grimace, who I adore, I think the way he paid out the money was in hundreds in a very slow fashion. Passive aggressive. Yeah. In a way that suggested he did not have the money. And I know that's not true. Can't possibly be true. No, Grimace. I mean, all that money from the shakes. I mean, it's not Grimace, but, you know, yeah. billions served. Right. So I just, yeah, it's that kind of thing where I think I need to have empathy for Grimace because obviously they're hurt. Like they're hurt by me asking for money. Like there's something offensive in me asking for money. And then, you know, and also I'm, it's just interesting.

22:51Was it for a charitable event? No, no. Oh, okay. That's so different. Oh, wow. I do a lot of things and I don't want to, you know, shoot my own horn, But I give and give and give so many charitable causes. But that I get. I understand. Sure, I'll show up and do the thing. And here's my argument with charity gigs. I am often asked by a fan. The people they're trying to get money from are not fans. They are very wealthy people in Napa Valley or somewhere where I recently did a benefit and bombed so hard. because people in Napa Valley, they've had some wine. They don't want to hear about schizophrenia research in my chunk on suicidal ideation.

23:36They would like to have Howie Mandel come up as soon as possible. And that's why I refuse to do benefits because I just think I'm hurting people. I got to a point, and there's no way around it, but tell me if you agree. Performing for people who are eating, I that's just the thing that when I hear chewing and I hear silverware and gulping when I'm trying to tell a joke that I sweated over I I'm very unhappy thanks a lot Gordy's also eating a massive cobbler right now with a big wooden spoon yeah it feels sad and if there's I mean I don't know if some people are enjoying themselves for me uh i feel like it's like a a gig where it's like combat duty where i'm like taking a bullet yeah you are for somebody and so it's like it's unnecessary and everybody's suffering i think it's right and healthy for you to say okay here's what i need in return it's not outrageous you just wanted to pay off some people and you wanted some clogs that is very reasonable thank you so much well and i i just it's also fascinating just I'm a comedian who, you know, I'm in the middle of the pack or whatever.

24:51So the opening salary for comics has not gone up in the 30 years that I've been working. So people are still getting 100 bucks a week, 200 bucks a week. And I think many, I didn't know that. And so I started asking people and I was like, say what? Like, because I'm making tons more than that, you know. I mean, depending on what city I'm in. But let's be honest. Tulsa, Oklahoma, not so much. Not a draw. Not a draw. I won't be back. I won't be back. It's fine. Do you realize you're crying right now? Yeah. Lots of tears. But I find it very interesting, including for myself. Like, there is no reason I should ever feel afraid or angry about money ever again.

25:37Ever again. And yet I do all feel like this weird thing. And also with Grimace, like I did not have to do the gig. I didn't. I could have said no, because like I got friends, you know, I got I got enough love in my life. Like, what is it that's pushing me to feel like, oh, I got to get the the prestige or the bride, you know, like someone to pay more attention to me, which is so sad, which I loved about John Mulaney's special of like, now I just need to get a little more attention. that's the only thing I need but yeah so and that's weird too you know like and it's about greed of attention but greed of you know which I think is a part of our society in terms of you know why are the rich getting so much richer and why you know anyways

26:32I'm sorry I fell asleep in my own narrative

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26:46okay this is what i'm taking away from from what you just said and also from your book which is you are constantly i mean just now you're talking you're analyzing society but also yourself but also what does money mean there's so much that you're thinking about all the time and it all goes back to this I want you to say compulsion yes to think and consider everything yes and you talk a lot about OCD and how you've been battling OCD really your entire life yeah I mean now it's not so bad because you know once you find out what the thing is you know you go to it and then they go oh that's just that and you go oh once you put a name on it yeah once you put it you take away It's power.

27:27Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I have intrusive OCDs, which usually are taboo thoughts. So whatever is taboo in your society, you know. When you were a kid, you told your mother. Yes. Because it's in the book. You told your mother that you had these thoughts of harming the family. Yes. And she said. Honey, it's okay if you're gay. All right. Well, now you just added a whole new set of. Yep. That's how a gay person comes out. I'm thinking of murdering the family. And somehow being homosexual was worse in the 80s than being a serial killer. Right, right. Why can't you be more like Ted Bundy? He's heterosexual.

28:12At least like the ladies. You say that your mom, because you talk a lot about your mom, and you talk about how she was kind of, you think, one of the catalysts or one of the maybe moving forces behind you getting into show business. Totally. Why? How? My mom, well, she loves things that are shiny, but she also, and this is something I realized after she passed, I always thought she had like style, like she knew what was the best thing. And now I realized, oh, she just chose to see everything she got as the best. So this microphone is just darling. No, you can tell it's quality. It's made, it's handcrafted by someone in the water.

28:54Oh, I love it, Conan. And I love it. I'm a lucky kitty. But that's actually a lovely quality. Yes. So how does that translate into you wanting to go into show business? Well, because she was often distracted, which I think may have been a result of not getting enough calories. But, you know, always sort of like it needed to have some shine on it. So my sister became a physician. that seemed to get her enough attention, like, oh, well, my older daughter is a doctor and she has four children with her husband, Mark. And then, you know, and then it was sort of me on my end. It was quiet for a number of years.

29:37Well, Maria's just figuring it out. She's just figuring it out. But like, oh my God, as soon as, you know, she has been, well, the first TV spot I got was on your show, you know. That's in 1999, I think. Yes. Yeah, you came on late night. She is on Conan. She's on television. Like she would just light up about, yeah, consumer or anything with a, yeah, she loves status. Loves status. I have, and I've talked about this, I think, before on the podcast, but I have this picture on my desk that someone took when I was at an event. It was my parents. It was probably like 15 years ago. And it's both of my parents laughing really hard because I'm on stage in the picture.

30:18I'm not in the picture. It's just both my parents laughing really hard. And I asked, someone showed me that picture. And I said, can I have that? And I framed it and I keep on my desk because if anyone ever needs the reason why, and it's very primal. Yeah, yeah. But it is, see those two people that made me laughing? That's why. That's why. That's the whole thing. And as you know, I'm wondering if it's, in your book, you make it clear that when you get up on stage and you get that kind of approval and laughter, it does resonate because you've felt it before. It's when you were a kid and your parents were going, yay, get out in the box for Papa.

31:00Yeah, it's the same dopamine hit. Oh, it's just delightful. I don't know if anybody's heard of Suzuki violin or it's a way people teach their kids music and it came out of Japan. And it's all about if you teach a kid early enough, they can do anything. So you start at two years old, you will have a weirdly, you know, talented, whatever it is. Very unhappy. Yeah. Perhaps unhappy, dependent on. Malformed hands. But you can, you know, kids can do anything. So, and you talk about this in the book because you did Suzuki violin. What age did you start? Three. Now, whose idea was it, Your mom or your dad?

31:42Well, they said, honey, you can do dance or violin. And I didn't really know what either of those were. Yeah, you're three. I was three. So I said, why not the V sound? And then started doing that. No, little did I know what she said, which I didn't understand that either. She said, you cannot quit until you're 12 years old. And I didn't understand time and how that worked. But yeah, I mean, the great thing about that, it kept me off the pipe, off the pole. and also Actually it's something you could use on the pole. Yeah, I mean kids are incredibly malleable and if you look as a parent that you're pleased at the actions that they're performing, whether that's factory work in a chicken parts situation you will do it.

32:30You will continue to do it and get better at it. How good did you get at piano using this method? I mean piano, violin. It'd be funny if you got really good at the piano. That'd be very strange. You know, weirdly good where you go, oh, wow, that's crazy. You know, where I think I got to book eight out of 10 and I went to the Interlochen music camp, international music camp. Did it give you any joy? Not really. I did not enjoy it. The part I liked was getting up on stage. I liked that part. And then I kind of like the feel of victory. Like if I whooped somebody, like if somebody didn't do well and then I did well, like, which is monstrous.

33:09And what I like more was getting laughs and stuff because I did some theater and stuff as a kid and speeches. But then I moved to Los Angeles. There were two other comedians who are female doing acts with violence. And so I said to myself, I think I can kick this to the curb now. Henny Young Women? Henny Young Women. And I, well, and yeah, I think Henny Young genuinely loved to play. I have. And Jack Benny famously played. I see, played much, I think, better violin than he let on. Right. But it was part of his act as well, which is everyone hates my violin playing, you know. Right. That's a good act.

33:51There's so many themes you touch on in the book. Food is one of them. Yes. Let's talk about food. Take me through your food journey because it's been fraught. Fraught. well I mean I think you know and I've talked to other comedians said I was bulimic which bulimic bulimia is it's one of the ways you can be bulimic is just binge and then purge through exercise you don't necessarily have to have been a vomiting purger so maybe I don't count to some people because it is a competitive sport and I did oh vomiter eh oh my god you get into treatment and people are like So, I mean, have you blown out your exophagus?

34:33Like, it does get. I mean, are you really a heroin addict? Like, it always gets competitive at some point. This is so fascinating to me because this is what human beings do. Everything is a competition. You could be on a raft in a boat with three other people starving to death in the ocean because you've been at sea and you're drinking your own urine for six weeks. And people are like, you call that skinny? Yeah, I get it. Look at this over here. my pelvis is cutting through my skin alright? there's something so you're saying that you're in treatment and you're getting attitude from people that don't think you qualify oh shit yeah yeah no like what are you here for?

35:16I worked at a grocery store so I could binge carrots and my skin could turn orange you know that type of thing it was bad enough that I was unable to get stuff done, you know? So I was unable to leave my dorm room when I was in college. And so I called a suicide hotline, said hello. And they gave me the number to Overeaters Anonymous. What? A white woman who's bulimic? How did it start? Anyways, so it's not that interesting of a story. And in fact, I've told comedians and they're just like, yeah, that's everybody's, well, then everyone has an eating disorder. And I'm like, well, okay, fair enough.

35:55I don't think you should be looking to other comedians for sympathy because we're all the worst people. So that's the first problem. Hey, that's not funny. You got to punch that up. Yeah. The part where you call the suicide hotline. No, no. You don't end there. You punch it with this. OK, you're talking to the wrong people. Well, and 988 if you need to call it. But sometimes there is a 45 to 90 minute wait to call anybody. I called Hertz Run a Car, South Pasadena, California. They picked up on the first ring. Anyways, just FYI, 988 is not always perfect. Are you being serious right now? I am being totally serious.

36:31You text. And this is important because you've been through this experience and you've had very dark thoughts. And this is something to take seriously. Yeah. 988 is the number you call if you're having. Suicidal thoughts or fear of hurting yourself or someone else. But if you don't get them, do you really believe that you should call anyone else? Oh, I think, yeah, lower the bar to accessing mental health. Because there's such, I don't know, I think it's such a load of bullshit. Like they have all these memes going, hey, you asked for help, you know, tell someone. And it's like you cannot get an appointment if you even have insurance for six weeks, six to eight weeks.

37:07And then only see you maybe four times if you've had a traumatic event. And that event, you can only have a therapist like Kaiser is notorious for this, where they can only see you once a month. even if you have a shit ton of money you can throw money in the street and burn it and they'll sometimes there's some shitty i went to uh i went to the hospital to for because i was uh concerned about myself uh for a night for a three three day hold and um i thought they took my insurance turned out they didn't uh they said they needed all the money in cash which made me laugh uh in retrospect, because isn't spending an enormous amount of money on something that's going to be worthless a sign of mania.

37:53But it was not good. It wasn't great. Like, if you look in the back of the New Yorker and there's all those mental health care places, if you read about experiences people have had there, it's just a holding take. I went to this one place where it was very expensive. They said they had yoga classes, a pool. You get there, nothing's going on. Nothing's happening. It's a lot of carbs. There's hash browns. You will put on at least 20 pounds and the pool is closed. Pool is closed due to insurance concerns. This is most motels I've stayed in. Most motels. There's hash browns and the pool is always closed.

38:29Yeah, well, that's why. I think you went to a motel Hampton Hampton Hampton but just yeah yeah that I think you can feel like you've been gaslit sometimes like oh am I not getting the right care and just know it will be shit like and be surprised if you get anything a little better than uh you know if you get any eye contact you know just I just I hate I hate that thing where it's like hey you with the ongoing trauma on the schizoaffective disorder, get a massage! Take a walk! You know, and it's like, it's not that easy. Yeah. Nor is it always pleasant. One of the things that you do so well, so effectively is, and effective is a cold term, because I admire the way you do it.

39:20You're brutally honest about all these painful things you've been through, and you never, you're always funny, too, at the same time. You managed to get the salty and the sweet mixed up very beautifully. And I think that's edifying. That's helpful for a lot of people. That's my current thing in terms of, well, this is a punchline, but now I call the anti-abortion people because all their literature says life is a gift. Have them take the time to prove it to you. I recently called, hi, I'm not pregnant. My mother was. And that saucy bitch, she kept it. Now, it's 52 years later. What's the plan?

40:01I would really like to be placed in a loving home.

40:12That's beautiful. I've got some phone calls I'd like to make. I think we all have some calls we'd like to make. Yeah. But yeah, and I think we can also be there for each other a lot more that the peer advocacy, I've just trained to be a peer advocate and a lot of you can have lived experience, take a test and then be paid to work in the mental health system if you have lived experience with addiction or mental health. and I think we can help each other a lot more by being more open with it and then also the availability of like, hey, you don't have to go into a hospital necessarily or find the right therapist, which is a thing in Los Angeles.

40:59You've got to see this guy. He's a psychopharmacologist. He's on retainer, so it's five grand a month, but I see him on a helicopter pad. and he lets me do ayahuasca. He really helped. He really helped. He helped Grimace so much. Yeah, yeah. And I love Grimace. Let's be clear about that. Well, you know, that's the other possibility is that we used to live and, you know, I always think about evolution. We evolved and we evolved to live in groups of about, I don't know, 50, 60. All of us would live in a small area and the postman would come in when he brought you the mail and sit with you and you'd offer him a piece of coffee cake and you'd talk for 20 minutes and there was a lot of that kind of bonding.

41:43Yeah. If I don't want my postman to come in and there's no coffee cake, but get to know the names of your barista. Who knows what they've been through or taken at a, you know, community college? Like, I feel like that is genuinely can be like, I mean, I try to mention I'm bipolar everywhere I go so that, you know, if somebody needed something just because I think they're that that kind of safety net of, yeah, you're just you're surrounded by people who can help and who want to help. Everybody wants to feel useful. Everyone wants to have a IRL experience. So you've been diagnosed with bipolar two.

42:25Yes, which is the that's the the the easier sort of bipolar for one of my part. So you've had a competitive conversation with someone who's bipolar one. Oh, bipolar 2. Well, that must be a nice holiday. So, you've never had psychosis. I was told to murder by my dog.

42:44And you've been in several psych wards. You talk about that in the book? Just two different ones. Glendale Adventist Psychiatric Medical Center. I was in West, Psych West. And then I was at the Last Encinas, still in business. Do not recommend it. you just gave them a bad yelp review well no no i never give bad reviews i always feel like everyone's having a hard enough time okay uh well here's the thing the psychiatrist there who has since retired uh he when i went in because yeah i got to see a psychiatrist which is amazing and he not only uh he googled me during the session but then played some of my act back to me and said, oh, you're pretty funny.

43:33Unless I say I'm Richard Pryor, you know, like and wait until I've left. You know, if I'm having some sort of experience where I think I'm somebody else and just assume maybe she's a comedian, like maybe she is like because I think I said I was a comedian, which is always a terrible idea to say in a hospital circumstance. But I. Isn't the first thing you get, tell me a joke? Uh, yes. Or wherever I've seen you or, you know, and all jobs have that sort of thing. You know, I know I've heard people say, you know, I'm an administrative assistant. Oh, like, you know, sometimes you don't get any questions.

44:15Right. And you have a lot to say. When you go to these places and you're in that state, are you ever thinking about comedy or looking around and thinking? No. No. No. I mean, if you're having an emergency event for any sort of, whether that's a physical or a mental issue, you're not. Yeah. No, no. You're in a completely altered state. Yeah. Just. Yeah. No, I wanted to. I wanted to die. I was not feeling good. Yes. So, no, it's like something's broken or you don't go, you know, this pain. I don't. Somebody take notes on this. Maybe you are. I worry that I would, but I'm deeply like, how could I use this?

45:05And but the pain you're describing, to be honest with you, is a pain I have not felt. So I cannot relate. Yeah, I hadn't. And I hadn't felt that either. I don't think I had felt that, you know, of just like your brain. I wasn't there. I wasn't there. And that feeling of like, oh, there's no me here. And yeah, I just did not, like every moment was excruciating. I was so grateful when they came around with the meds. I was just like, oh, my God, knock me out with a hammer. And they don't do that anymore. That was the 60s. that ended with the three stooges but that was really nice like Jonathan Winters he had had I think a few psychotic episodes and in the 60s I think they would just everyone was just there was just a big jar of allium and then they would they'd just numb you out and he was there for months but my friend I have a friend who's friends of his and I was so out of it I was just like He's like, I'm calling Jonathan.

46:14He'll tell you it's going to be okay. And I'm like, okay. I could barely talk, but he was like, oh, you have a good shrink. I said, well, yeah. You know, just keep going. All I can do is keep going, which is really the only advice anyone can give you. It's also that generation, depression era, World War II, fighter pilot, keep going. Yes. Which sometimes is the right advice to get, like pull yourself together and keep going. Well, and I think that the experience of like a suicidal depression really has given me empathy for people in my life who have committed suicide. I think there's tremendous guilt, but also sometimes people are angry at people who commit suicide.

46:59And that you just don't know the level of suffering someone has experienced. And anyways, I don't know why I'm laughing. That's inappropriate. That makes you kind of a monster, I think. Well, ouch. Ouch is not the appropriate response to me calling you a monster. Hitler, you're a monster. Ouch.

47:24Stalin, you're Satan. Ouch. Oh, hey, oh. Spicy.

47:33You said that one of the causes of your break was you'd lost your dog. You were really connected to your dog. Yes. Blossom. Blossom. The awesome pug. Blossom, the awesome dog. She's a super. Anyways, you guys don't know. What was that? It's a song. He read a song for any dog that you get. You write a song for him. And she's a beautiful girl. And I was, I think I was kind of going into a hypomanic state. And so, but one of the things I did is I forgot to put a ramp back to our back of our backyard. And so she Thelma and Louise did out to the back. She was around nine years old and she died. And it really sucked.

48:19And I felt so ashamed. And the great thing is that if you do anything horrible, you can Google it and someone else will come up. And so, you know, I started talking about on stage. People are like, I sat on my rabbit, you know, like. But on purpose. Yeah. Oh, no. Oh, but. That's how I took my rabbit out. well I thought it was the quickest way I said you're gonna get a little sit down mister but everything miserable has happened to somebody you know somebody's left a baby in a hot car and then you know written a book about it and is now on tour and that's the great thing about the internet is that you can find that you are never alone but yeah that was just I felt so awful but you know it is I know you have a dog you have Oki I have Oki.

49:06And you have Margo. Margo. You know Margo. Yes, yes. And I have two dogs. And you get really involved in these animals. And in a way, you get more involved because you feel like almost you could have, I don't know. They're just always there for you. I'm never sarcastic with one of my dogs. You know what I mean? I'm just like, you, I love you. All the emotions are very pure. That's the difference between a dog and a cat. I feel like I'm always there for my cat. And she's very sarcastic with me. Oh, no. Counts are assholes. Yeah, but this one. Counts are the worst. She's a plus-size model. Oh, let's be.

49:43Oh, she's a sassy lady. Does she put on a kitten heel? Sassy stuff. She puts on fishnets and then eats them. Maria, I want to say something about you, which is you're a terrific comedian, and I think you're a really brave person because you just put these things out there that I think would be difficult for a lot of people to talk about and you're honest about it and you, whatever alchemy you're performing to make it funny, something nice for other people, but also informative, that's a real gift. So thank you. Seriously, thank you for being here and for doing this. Thank you so much for having me and it's been a delight.

50:25I'm sorry I didn't get to talk with any of these other lovely people who seem, what are you guys doing over there? Well, that's the thing. We don't know who they are. They just sit back there I'm actually not listening to this podcast I have another podcast That's Eduardo Eduardo designed this studio Really? He asked to be paid and I said Come on, I'm a friend We're buddies I paid my parents I paid my parents to work for me They didn't get union rights But they were in one of my specials And I paid them 900 bucks a piece as well as gave them dinner. Oh, wow. Yeah. That's really nice of you. Spent every penny.

51:08I had my parents intern for me. And they never got paid. And I said they'd get college credit. Yeah. And I never gave it to them. Bad. Wow. Yeah. That's another way to go with it. I had them doing like yard work. It wasn't even my yard or anything associated with the show. No, just pulling weeds. Yeah, it was just, exactly. Yeah, my 94-year-old dad was weed whacking when he took both of his legs off. And he went, oh, no. Anyway, he's doing well. He's a happy torso. Maria Bamford, thank you very much. Thank you for having me.

51:55I think we're celebrating recently a very special anniversary. Yeah, we tape a little bit ahead, so I don't know exactly when this is going to come out, but today is September 13th, and my whole career in late nights started on September 13th, 1993, so it's been exactly 30 years. Wow. Since I started. And it feels like a long, because so much has happened. It feels like a long time ago, but I will always remember that day. Yeah. We did our first television show. And a lot of young people don't know or rightly don't care. But at the time, it was kind of, who is this guy? I was a complete unknown and hadn't been on television.

52:41And so people were, I think half the audience was tuning in just to see someone try to jump their motorcycle over a canyon and fail. Oh, no. But I have very fond memories of the show. It was a really fun first show. It was electrifying to get to do it. You were a baby. I was 29 when I auditioned. That's crazy. And then I had just turned 30 when I got the job. And then we put it together very quickly in a couple of months. And I do have to get this all down on paper someday because it is a wild story. but uh with the help of really talented funny people and got a good crew together some of whom are still with me today jeff ross still with me um mr frank smiley still with me paula davis uh gina um of course batista yeah um and uh it has and and and andy i still see andy almost every day because he does his podcast here in the building.

53:43And so we see each other a lot. And Andy was out there with me, uh, and he had been hired as a writer. And immediately I thought this guy, I just want him next to me because I'm, I'm going to them the nose cone of a rocket into space. I'm probably going to get killed. I'd like to have this funny guy next to me. And so that was a blessing. So there was no original plan for you to have a sidekick. No, there was no original plan for anything and the whole thing had to come together very quickly uh but that first show we worked really hard robert smigel my original head writer he and i had this vision of what we wanted and we worked very hard and jeff ross was there helping us make it happen and he was instrumental in the whole operation and we decided uh that we wanted this very silly kind of sense of humor and we worked so hard.

54:36We had pre-tapes. We had everything just lined up. So we knew our first show was going to be good. We knew it was going to be loaded with a lot of good stuff. So people subsequently said, oh, you must have been terrified that day. And I remember thinking, no, I was just excited to get going. Really? Yeah, I was. I was so excited to get going because the whole summer people were like, who the fuck are you? And that was my mom. speaking of that you know how I heard about you from my mom I was away at college and she said this is the new guy they're putting on Conan O 'Brien and then she really liked you she watched the show oh that's nice yeah I didn't have a TV at college or I would have tuned in it was a different time no one had it's funny I go back to colleges now and they have televisions and computers whatever I just I didn't have a of course there weren't televisions when I went to college we had curve top radios but anyway it was uh it was a really special day and so it was just funny to wake up today and think huh i had some texts from people saying wow 30 30 years ago today and that changed my life completely um obviously lots of ups and downs but uh just i wouldn't change a thing been very fortunate there been uh different eras or sections and so went through that whole late night thing and then And Sona, I don't meet you till really the end of the late night thing in the beginning of the Tonight Show.

56:05Thanks for your help with that. Oh. Sounded like you were blaming me. A lot of people are. A lot of people are. Okay. Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, I'm sorry. Well, you were the one thing that changed. Oh, okay. Everything was going along swimmingly. Then I came along. I can help. Oh, no. Look out. you showed up and then that whole era like the tour and everything at TBS and this podcast and meeting you Matt I mean I just I'm very I know it sounds sappy but I cannot believe my good fortune I just keep meeting new people that challenge me in different ways and I get to have more and more fun it just seems like I'm off the charts blessed so half your life you have been a figure no that would that would make me 60 no oh I'm sorry oh okay Yeah, we're putting out a press release that I am one third of your life.

56:57I am 40 years ago. Oh, okay. We're putting it, my publicist had this idea this morning. I'm going to 44 now. Do you want to go back at the opening of this segment and say we recorded this in 1998?

57:15Yes, I do. Okay. Well, I think President Clinton's doing a bang up job. I also just want to take a second to say no. Yeah, I'm 60 now. And I was, yeah, 29 when I auditioned, then 30 when we did the show. Yeah. And it's so funny when I look at clips now from that first show or that first year of that first show. I can't believe they let that guy on television. He's so young and goofy. And my hair was insane. I don't know why, but I feel like, you know, you found your stride very quickly, too, though. I mean, I feel like you started and everyone just started talking about you. That's true. I heard about you from my mom, but then it was all my friend circles and we would just watch and eat it up.

57:59Oh, that's nice. I would never tell you probably enough what a fan I was of you. You have never mentioned it. I've mentioned it at least once. Talked about this. Yeah, maybe in my sleep it came out. Yeah, I think so. No, I really, really. Well, you know, it's interesting, and I actually think this is the way things should be, But most of what we heard about back then, because there wasn't an internet, was we just heard from TV critics who were not happy. And so we heard all this negativity and the network wasn't happy. And so we were only mostly just getting negativity. and then um i remember the first summer that we you know we made it through the fall and this long dark winter and a lot of criticism and uh it was tough and then we made it to the summer and kids got out of college and they came to see the show live in rockfarrer center and suddenly i'd walk out and the audience and robert smiegel i talked to him about this he remembers it too starting in June, I'd walk out for the monologue or for the warmup and the crowd would go crazy.

58:59And I would think, is there someone behind me that they want to see? But we had no idea. We had no idea. And it was so nice to finally. And then, of course, they all went back to school in the fall. Do you think that you would have read stuff if people talked about it? Because you're very big on not reading. No, but I would have. It maybe would have. There are all these young performers today uh comedians uh who were watching then who tell me who are so established and good and they tell me that they were watching then and really liking it and my reaction is always to a hater or malaney or a nick kroll or any of these people why didn't you tell me and they're like that was a kid idiot we didn't know i thought everyone hated me and i did i sent letters i shredded all the letters if there wasn't cash in there i shredded them but uh but 30 years That's truly remarkable and impressive.

59:57And it is an amazing because it won't I don't ever see anything like that happening again, where they just take someone who no one has ever really heard of and then make them host a storied franchise. Well, also, I think the television business has changed so much that at the time, now there's so much television that you're always, you can go home at night and you can watch 10 ,000 television shows literally on all these streaming services. And they can be populated with people you've never heard of. Or you can go on the computer and watch YouTube clips. And it's everybody you've never seen before.

1:00:30But this was back in this other era where literally there's, well, there's two late night shows. And, you know, and now there's going to be this there's this third one. So we're giving a third person in America a chance. Who shall it be? What's the population of America? About three hundred and forty million. All right. Who should it be? Lauren Michaels. What do you think? I think maybe Conan O 'Brien. Done. Let's see. We'll need another man. Yeah. Yeah. So it's just so weird because it's crazy. It's crazy. I shouldn't have had that chance. and got it and I've just been and then as you know Sona I met my met Liza shooting a remote on the show so that would never have happened and you met your husband because of the show I met my husband because of the show and I'm marrying Matt Gorley because he's here on the podcast which wouldn't have happened if it weren't for the show other people on the show have married each other and met because of the show like there's there's babies because of this show oh yeah many people made babies at 1230 at night back then that's true Because there was nothing else.

1:01:37So many people used to say, I watched you last night because I was up fucking. I'd say, what an awful phrase. That's too much. That's TMI. That's the key to your longevity is that you're an aphrodisiac and then you made another generation of people that were holding to you. They made it very clear they were having sex when a cat stepped on the remote and the TV came on. God damn it, I can't finish. Why? Because that idiot's on. hair's going every which way he's jerking around he's talking too much his voice is weird that comedy's abrasive and strange and this is you talking no no with an accent yeah all right well very uh feel very fortunate today to just have to have been around for this ride yeah and now goodbye forever oh no wait that was unforeseen well I know it just felt like I should ride off now no no no okay I'll stick around we need you to keep going all right okay I have a house okay I've seen it tonight's hour.

1:02:37Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend With Conan O 'Brien, Sona Mufsesian And Matt Gourley Produced by me, Matt Gourley Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Nick D 'Leal And Jeff Ross at Team Coco And Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Earwolf Theme song by The White Stripes Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino Take it away, Jimmy Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair And our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples Engineering by Eduardo Perez Additional production support by Mars Melnick Talent booking by Paula Davis Gina Batista and Britt Kahn You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode Got a question for Conan?

1:03:19Call the Team Coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message It too could be featured on a future episode And if you haven't already please subscribe to Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

From the publisher

Actress and comedian Maria Bamford feels excited about being Conan O’Brien’s friend (if he needs her friendship).

 

Maria sits down with Conan to discuss her new book Sure, I’ll Join Your Cult: A Memoir of Mental Illness and the Quest to Belong Anywhere, the compulsion to consider everything and to share everything, being trained in the Suzuki method of violin, and the roadblocks of getting treatment for an eating disorder. Plus, Conan and his team celebrate the 30 year anniversary of his debut on Late Night.

 

For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com.

Got a question for Conan? Call our voicemail: (669) 587-2847.

 

This episode was recorded on 8/8/2023.

Get access to all the podcasts you love, music channels and radio shows with the SiriusXM App! Get 3 months free using this show link: https://siriusxm.com/conan.


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