Nathan Lane

27:25And I was like, Oh, you want to go see one? i hear conan's hanging out at the angelica he's in the lobby who is this conan and uh can i call you and he did and then so the next day it was this is happening and it's elaine is writing the adaptation and robin williams is going to play the other part and i said so i would i would be the drag queen and i he said yes and i said well that's that's a very good part and he said yes it is And I said, okay. And I couldn't believe it was happening. Now, you can cut me off at any point. No, no, no. I love this. It's a long story. So we also kind of did a, he wouldn't refer to it as a screen test, but they wanted to see what I would look like in drag and all of that.

28:11And he made it fun, and I sang a song, and many outfits by the great Ann Roth, the costume designer. And then I was supposed to do a funny thing happen on the way to the forum. They were building this around me. And Scott Rudin called me, the producer of Forum, and he said, he's not going to make that movie. That's never going to happen. It's never going to work out. And he went on. And I had to, because of the scheduling, I had to turn it down. I had to say, you know what? I can't really leave these people in the lurch they've been building. and the time frame now that you're talking about, I can't do that to them.

28:54That's a crazy thing to say, no, Mike Nichols. Yeah. I will not co-star in your film. So I said, okay, and I told them. And then I would hear from, I would see Mike Nichols. I was talking about this the other day. I would see him from time to time. He would, like, once, this was afterwards. There was a period where maybe Robin wasn't going to do the movie. This is how long this went on. And maybe he would say, how do you feel about Billy Crystal? I'm nobody. You know what I mean? I would say, I love Billy Crystal. Why are you asking me? And then one day he came up to me. We were at a benefit and he said, Robert Redford.

29:37I said, is he here? He said, no. Robert, he said, Robert Redford as your husband. And I said, well, if you can work that out, all my dreams will come true. And so, and then, so anyway, finally, I think Robin, it was, yeah, he was going to play the other part. And then he calls me. He was in Ireland. And he says, Nathan, and I'm in my dressing room at Lafter of the 23rd floor. And he says, Nathan, I'm meeting people, but I think you're the person. And I said, I said, Mr. Mike Nichols, I have no power here. Perhaps if you called Scott Rudin, something could be arranged. He said, yes. He's like an evil serpent.

30:26Yes. I don't mean to make him sound like that. No, no, no. He was. No, but I know what you mean. He had a, well, an aura, an iconic status. Oh, yeah. And so, yes, I could see him. He's someone who can just say, yes. He called you dear boy. Yeah, and it has a power to it. Oh, yes. And so the next day, Scott Rudin said, you really want to do this movie? Well, why wouldn't I want to do this movie? And he said, it means we have to postpone a year. And I said, I know. I said, I know. I turned it out. He said, OK. And then it wound up, of course, helping us with Forum, because by the time Forum opened, the movie had come out.

31:13And I was not just this New York actor who was, you know, had lucked out in getting this the lead in this musical. But it was always the guy from that film that's doing well. Right. So Jason Alexander, Jason Alexander. And so it's one thing helped the other. And, you know, so I'm grateful to Scott Rudin, Mike Nichols, Robin Williams. It was, you know, I'm going to introduce someone who was one of the things I always say is a is a hallmark of a great career is that depending on who you run into in any age group, they're excited about a different thing. my co-host today sitting with me David Hopping who's here accidentally because Sona couldn't be here he lost his mind when he found out that he was going to be in a room with you because of The Lion King and he we were walking in and Clay was like do you mind sitting in today and I was like with Disney royalty of course I want to sit in here yeah we just did this thing at the Hollywood Bowl it's gonna I think it's it's airing soon um it was a 30th anniversary i can't believe that concert of you know jennifer hudson and um yeah and a lot of people from the the original cast and the new people and people from the broadway show is quite oh that's so cool extravaganza but it was fun to be reunited with ernie sabella who played pumba and he's an old friend and just uh and i also think i had some experience with this working on the simpsons but people don't realize that voice work none of it works if it's not there in the voice i don't care how good the animation is i don't care how good the story is if the if the actor who's doing the voice can't capture it uh and i saw this on the simpsons these people are just brilliant who do those you know it's hank's area and dan casaneta If it's not there, you don't have anything.

33:17And so to be one of those iconic Disney voices is pretty amazing. Yeah. Again, sort of like, you know, as a kid, seeing those Disney films. And I was always sort of fascinated by the voice actors. And so to wind up doing that and with a movie that started as something called King of the Jungle. And nobody seemed to be excited about it. and and and then auditioning for hyenas you know three hyenas and then ernie happened to be there you know we were both doing guys and dolls on broadway at the time yeah and he he had gone in first and he was going to leave and he said i'll stay i'll stay with me get lunch we um and i said well would it be all right if he came in and we read together because it's three hyenas and it'll give me someone to play off of and you know might be fun and and then you know like two months later they said well we're developing these two you know sidekick characters that are the comic relief and you know a warthog and a meerkat i said great um my dream my dream and my dream you know and then we started it was like a two-year process and you they show you drawings and we said to them well well, what do you, how do you want them to sound?

34:34And they wanted him to be lower pitched and me to have a higher pitched voice. But they said, you're doing guys and dolls, so they should be like Damon Runyon characters, you know, in the Serengeti. And so Ernie was just doing, he does a combination of, no one will remember, a character actor named Wallace Beery. Oh, yeah. Who used to talk like this. And then also a little bit of Michael Gotso from The Godfather, who's really high up here. You're on him. You know that he does. So he does a combination of that. And I'm just doing a, you know, Brooklyn Jewish meerkat. That old thing. That old thing.

35:18And yeah, that's how to sort of how they came to life. And then Ernie used to this was the big joke was that we would we're doing a show eight times a week. and we'd go in to record very early. And, you know, we were tired. And so I'd be having coffee and we're going to start and Ernie would just start making fart noises in the middle of, you know, he'd say,

35:45just to make me laugh and get me going. And then they put it in the movie. which is why Pumbaa is a the only the first flatulent character in a Disney film so that's literally just screwing around that was screwing around to make you chuckle yes you know little you know we improvise they use a little of it I mean apparently I don't even remember half of it but they apparently I said you know what do you want me to do dress and dragon doing the hula for some reason. It must've been a long day. And then they made it a song.

36:24Now here's where the businessman in me says, you need a piece of that. Yeah, well. And I bet Disney is very easy to negotiate with. Hey, Disney. Get him on the phone. Yeah. You let me talk to them. Okay. I'll handle it. All right. I've got an in with Disney. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. He's a Disney guy. Yeah. Big Disney guy. I'm curious about this because I have a tendency to squish things down. If things are good, I tend to just squish it down. Like, okay, well, that was a nice thing that happened, but let's just squish that down and put it over here and not think about it and stick to the work.

37:01And it's sort of kind of a self-flagellating, again, God knows where this nonsense comes from uh i suspect we know but are you able i would want this for you i would want you at this stage to be able to say wow god i've done so much good work and i am nathan lane or feel some of that well you know i think it might be hard for you sure yeah it's funny you say that i had my my husband was here visiting and we had dinner it was my i had a birthday recently and we were sitting there and I said to him, you know, it's taken me such a long time to say, you know, I really appreciate, maybe it's age, I just appreciate, I have a lot of gratitude for what I've been able to accomplish with the, you know, so much about luck and opportunity when it, and, you know, as Ina Garten says, be ready when the luck happens.

37:57But, you know, the amount of talented writers and actors and directors I've gotten to work with. And it's, you know, I'm very grateful. And it's something to not only be proud of, but just not that you're resting on your laurels, but you feel like, you know, I have accomplished something. Yeah. And then it's meaningful to people and whether it's, you know, the Lion King or the Birdcage or these, you know, huge, that were huge things in my life and that it meant something to someone means everything. I mean, you know, jumping back to I was in New York doing the late night show when the producers happened and it was it was a cultural phenomenon.

38:49Yeah. That. Rarely happened. I mean, it was a lightning strike, but it was more than that. It was, there are hits on Broadway, but something happened and everyone agreed that this is the greatest thing that's ever happened in New York City. And it was lovely to be around that. And then I remembered thinking, oh, Jesus, you and Matthew have to walk around and everybody wants a ticket. Every policeman, every guy who's there to open a manhole cover. And they're not going to buy, Nathan, that you can't get them a ticket. What do you do about that? It was very, the sanitation workers were a big demographic.

39:34But, yeah, you know, that kind of thing. I mean, like, you know, there's Hamilton and that was sort of another one. But that was I think that show was kind of it was about, obviously, Mel Brooks, you know. Sure. Yeah. That genius. And but it was also kind of a zeitgeist hit. You know, you would come out of a long period of the dark British musicals. And there hadn't been anything that was kind of a return to old fashioned musical comedy. Unapologetic. Unapologetic, you know, you know, a sort of a valentine and yet satirical at the same time. And and with, you know, one of arguably one of the greatest comic plots ever conceived.

40:22Yes. And so we need this thing to fail, which is such a great idea. isn't it? It's just the beauty of that. So, you know, and I certainly was this huge fan of the film. I literally saw the film for the first time in a revival house here in L.A. and with an audience filled, screaming their heads off. And I was like, zero mostelos. I've never seen anyone so huge on screen, physically and emotionally, and yet truthful. Yeah. And gritty and just hilarious in the combination of him and Gene Wilder. And so the notion that when all of that started percolating, I started to hear, he's writing a musical.

41:10David Geffen is trying to talk him into writing this musical based on the movie. And I thought, well, it is a backstage story. It makes sense, you know. And then somebody mentioned, you know, they had talked to him about it. And then I was in, this was the weekend, I hate to mark it this way, but it was the weekend Princess Diana died. And he wasn't my husband then, but my now husband and I were at the Ritz in Paris. We went down to the pool, and in the pool was Mel Brooks and Anne Bancroft. and my husband's favorite actress was Anne Bancroft and he turned to me and he said, that's Anne Bancroft.

41:53He said, I'm too nervous. I can't swim in front of Anne Bancroft. He went upstairs. So I said, okay. And then I went to the pool and I had met them. This is like the benchmark laughter on the 23rd floor. They came, they had come to see it because there was a character based on Mel in the play about which he said, that character based on me, it's a tissue of lies um anyway they were very great i loved it but i loved it yeah anyway he you know we we said hello and i got in the pool and she and was swimming laps she left and he stayed in the pool with me which i thought odd and then he uh swam over to me and he said um I'm working on a musical based on my movie, The Producers, and I think you and Marty Short are the only two people in the world to play those parts.

42:52And I was like, wow. I said, that would be thrilling. I would be so honored. And then, you know, time passed. He had to write it with Tom Meehan. And then, you know, Marty had just done, you know, brilliantly, Little Me, won the Tony. And he had spent a lot of time in New York, didn't want to be away from the family again that long. And so someone brilliantly suggested Matthew Broderick. And I thought that's, you know, in some ways that's a better combination. Yes. You know, his energy and my energy, as it turned out it was. And he was, you know, sensational. And it was the beginnings of this journey that we took together, being in the middle of that tornado.

43:38Yeah. And you think, oh, you know, you'll never, the hype, you know, how can you live up to the hype? The great thing, as you said, you know, all these people, it's Barbara Walters and Kofi Annan are here after the show. You know, you go, really? It's Bishop Desmond Tutu. Loved it. He's coming up the stairs. So you go, wow. Mrs. O 'Brien is here. Alan Greenspan. Yeah. And, you know, people like that. Well, you couldn't believe it. But the people I loved would be like Harvey Korman. Sure. Coming back and saying, when you did that little piece of physical comedy and you go, these are people who understand what it is we're doing away.

44:22These are people that you watched when you were a kid. To me, that was, nothing will ever be more magical than when I get to meet the people that I saw. And sadly, there aren't many left, But I saw them on TV and they made me laugh when I was 8, 9, 10, 12, 15. And if they noticed me in any way and saw what I was doing and liked it, I think, okay, I can die now. Oh, sure. It's not going to get better than this. Tim Conway. Yes, exactly. I met him. You know, these people you idolized. Or Carol. I mean, Carol Burnett, you know, came back and she got emotional. And she said, you know, this reminds me of the old days of what Broadway was like.

45:11And it's like, you know, Mel is throwing this huge party and you and Matthew are the hosts. And it's, you know, it just was, yeah, it was that, especially in the beginning, that show, you know, the joy of it and the anarchy of it. Like anything could happen because it had that, you know, that tone to it. Yeah, that's kind of a once in a lifetime thing. No, it's not, because I've got a new idea. The sequel? Spartacus. Oh, Spartacus. The musical. Spartacus the musical. And I think you're perfect. Not as Spartacus. No, I'm his lawyer.

45:54You know what? You all can't be called Spartacus. There's a legal issue.

46:12so now you're working and it's nice because it's a it's you're working with this cast you're making it's it's multi-cam so you're making mid-century uh uh modern is am i correct linda lavin was part of this yes and she has since passed yes she has sadly the show alice is how i got to know linda sure. That's, but, and that was her iconic TV role. How much did you work with her? Well, you know, in, in the theater, she's a beloved figure, Tony award winning actress. Famously, I remember seeing her in Neil Simon's play Broadway bound. She played his mother and, you know, it's one of the greatest stage performances I've ever seen.

46:53And we knew each other just in passing, you know, as a, I was just a fan and we would see each other occasionally. And we'd always say, I hope we get to work together someday. So when this happened, it was – this whole thing has been an incredibly happy experience. A rare thing. And it's all the people who – you know, Jimmy Burrows is the director. I've always – again, one of these people. Jimmy Burrows, one of these guys that – I mean, cheers. Going back to the Mary Tyler Moore show. Yes. Friends. Taxi. Yep. You know, and it's created by Max Munchenik and David Gohan, who created Will and Grace.

47:37And they've put together this tremendous writer's room and with Jimmy there and what they're doing. And then just the casting is everything. And so Linda was, I don't know, that's another podcast maybe. But it's been, it was tragic and shocking and then emotional. And then they took a week, they pushed a week so that they could write an episode that deals with the death of her character. And also where the show is going to go going forward. And they did a beautiful job and it was overwhelmingly emotional. But she was, you would not believe she was 87 years old. I mean, she was just, and then you put her in front of an audience.

48:30And, you know, she was, as Jimmy would say, with a joke, she was like a heat-seeking missile. She was just brilliant. There is that thing, I always heard it, about George Burns. That when he was, you know, famously almost made it to 100. But when he was like 96, they said, you could wake him up. he could be sound asleep on an airplane and you could wake him up and he could do 10 minutes like because that thing doesn't go away uh-huh you know i mean i know that god knows what'll happen to me but whenever if i'm in a coma and any of my writers come by or people come by or and poke me i i will start doing a bit and um then they'll kill me yeah yeah but what is i mean we just that's i think yeah no she was just i mean in general she was a great actress it means she could do drama or comedy but she was so brilliant this this sort of thing and and um and we just it's just been a very happy family matt bomer and an actor named nathan lee graham who are sensational and matt who i i feel like he's going to be the um the revelation for a lot of people because, you know, he's a big, handsome glute, but also a wonderful, serious actor.

49:50But he's riotously funny. Yeah. And so it's been, it was an ordeal to get through because, and then on top, we did this very emotional episode and we felt like we honored her. And then I started to get vertigo and I'd had it, since we've done therapy, I thought we'd now get to the more medical side of my life. I can do that. I can handle that as well. I think it's a zinc deficiency. Isn't it always? So I had this about a year ago, what's called positional vertigo. And then there's a thing called the Epley Maneuver, which, you know, sounds like a bad off-Broadway play. The Epley Maneuver playing at the village gate.

50:43Anyway, and it usually goes away after a couple of days and some Dramamine. So this time, it really hit me. And I went to an ENT. They gave me a cortisone shot. But I'm holding on to walls. And you really have my equilibrium really thrown. And so I Google Vertigo. And the first thing that comes up is the Dizzy and Vertigo Institute of Los Angeles in Beverly Hills. And the pictures look nice. And they look professional. Never go by the pictures. And I'm like desperate. So I go back. So I make an appointment and I go back to the ENT the next day. Dr. Schnittman. And Dr. Schnittman says, it's not positional vertigo.

51:33And I said, well, I'm going to the Dizzy Institute right after. This isn't real. Which sounds like Nickman says it's don't go to the Dizzy Institute like it should be run by Jennifer Coolidge. Exactly right. And so he says, I that's where I was going to send you. And I said, great. And so I go and it's a very it's a real serious place. And they were they were incredible. And they put me through a series of tests like a NASA astronaut in a chair. You go upside down. All these tests, eye and ear coordination. And and they said what you have is called labyrinthitis, which is a virus you get in the inner ear.

52:18And I got it in the left inner ear, which was causing severe vertigo and nausea. And so they put the ENT, put me on prednisone. And then I had to do a series of exercises, you know, and what's called vestibular therapy. and again, we had to cancel a week so I could get over this and now we did the taping we were supposed to do last week, last night. So how are you feeling now? A little dizzy. No, I feel... I picture when you go to the Dizzy Institute, all the furniture is made of rubber. Like every, you know, anywhere you fall, it's you're, you're fine. I said, I told this teen, I ran into Tina Fey.

53:04Yeah. I told her about the Dizzy Institute. She said, you don't want to go to that parking garage. It's a very dangerous. Crash. Smash. Anyway, it's. Yeah. No, thankfully. Thankfully, I feel great. And it's. Yeah. I made a recovery. But it was. It's a weird thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's. But it's been. It's. It's. You know, my. I have a dicey history with the multicam. Most people do. The first one was not my fault. It was Mickey Rooney's series called One of the Boys. Dana Carvey and I did, I'm sure. Yes. You've discussed this with him. It comes up occasionally. Sure. Yeah. I was the biggest star in the world.

53:501940. Yeah. Bang, zoom. I heard it all. But that was 13 and out. And then I did an episode of Frasier and I was nominated for an Emmy. and they said, you know, if you ever want to do this, we'd love to develop something for you. I said, okay. They had won the Emmy five years in a row. We did. It was not the right fit. 13 and out. Then I did a show with a writer for CBS, Jeff Richman, an old friend, wonderful writer from Modern Family. He wrote a show, you know, did not work out. And you didn't really get much support from Les Moonves, Salt of the Earth, Les Moonves. So, you know, I was like, it's just never going to work out for me.

54:37That's fine. You know, I tried. You know, it's a miracle when friends or those things come together that way. And this time, I have to say, working with, but these are the best of the best. Jimmy Burroughs is standing there with an eye for comedy that's, you know, it's incredible in how they're putting this all together and the writers and the thing. And you're like, I can't believe this. And it feels like and I love these people. And it's and that's really important at this point in my life. Yes. That we're we're as Marty says, it's about the hang. Oh, you know, they're an example on like when I did only murders in the building.

55:16They set the tone. Like you feel good about going to work and having fun and doing good work. Those are all people that the minute it starts to get unpleasant, they're all going to walk. And you're in that category too. There's no reason at this point for unpleasantness. I mean, that's why I adore doing this. It's not a volume business. We're not cranking out. I'm not talking to three people a night, five nights a week, 40 nights a year. this is people that I love that I really want to talk to and have a real conversation with and get to know a little better. And if this started to turn into, oh God, I don't want to know you kind of have to because they're moving.

56:01Okay. Well, they're being real difficult. All right. No, there's no reason anymore. Yeah. Yeah. And you get, in this format, you're getting something else yes people are more relaxed this is this is a real much more real conversation than you know when you're playing to an audience yes you know um i want to wrap this up because i have to and um we've gone much longer than we normally do which is always an indication that i'm having the time of my life and uh i i have one wish for you is that i i'm not when i brought up a little while ago in the interview, are you able to own sort of what you've achieved?

56:41You said, well, I've been very lucky. And I say, yes, that's all true. And that's the great perspective to have. But you're also a crazily talented person who has integrity and you're a very sensitive person. And you have made this happen. And I just want to leave that little nugget with you and hope that you can hang on to it and then go hate yourself five minutes from now. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Well, will you be my friend? No. No. Just no. I don't see it. I really don't see an upside. I don't see an upside, you know? I know. I thought I was pushing it. But, you know. No, no. I was just going by the title of the podcast.

57:21No, it's a fucking gimmick. God bless you and thank you. Bless you. Thank you so much. Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend. With Conan O 'Brien, Sonam of Sessian, and Matt Gorley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Nick Liao. Theme song by The White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy.

57:51Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair. And our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It, too, could be featured on a future episode. You can also get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign up at SiriusXM.com slash Conan.

58:26And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

58:35You