Oh Walt Whitman!

0:02Ever invest in something that seemed incredible at first, but didn't live up to the hype? Yeah, like all the time. Yeah, I did that with an all-potato restaurant. Oh, no.

0:14Marketers know that feeling. They optimize for the numbers that look great, like impressions, but then they don't see revenue. You know what I'm talking about, don't you, Sonia? Oh, yeah, all the time. Yeah, LinkedIn has a word for that, bullspend. Bullspend. Yeah, instead you can get the highest ROAS of major ad networks with LinkedIn ads. Cut the bull spend. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend$250 and get a$250 credit. Go to LinkedIn.com slash Conan. Terms apply.

0:47Pettivity is an ecosystem of smart devices and at-home health tests that help pet owners provide a new standard of care to the pets they love. You have a dog, Sona. I do. She's very special. I have two dogs and three cats, so this could be interesting for me. These products transform your pet's most important data into real insights about their well-being, giving you the peace of mind that you're doing all you can to provide the best care possible. Proactively monitor your pets with PetTivity. Does this make sense? Yeah, it does. You don't want to wait until your pet has a problem. You want to be proactive.

1:19Yeah, you want them to live forever. Visit Petivity.com, P-E-T-I-V-I-T-Y.com to learn more about all the Petivity smart devices and at-home health tests.

1:33Conan O 'Brien needs a fan. Want to talk to Conan? Visit TeamCoco.com slash Call Conan. Okay, let's get started. Hey, Brooke. Welcome to Conan O 'Brien Needs a Fan. Hey, how's it going? Hey, Brooke. How are you? I'm great. How are you? I'm doing all right. I don't see where you are in the world. Where are you? I'm in New York, currently in Queens. You're in Queens. Oh, terrific. And all I know about you, it says here, and this is fascinating to me, is that you are an intimacy coordinator. Is that correct? Yeah, that's correct. It's the best job in the world. Yeah. Yeah, it is. Well, okay, Sona.

2:15Sona, why don't you tell us? I'm so excited. Clearly, Sona's the one that has thoughts about this. Um, this is I mean, this job is endlessly fascinating to me. And I would think it's become more and more necessary as sex scenes. If you think about, you know, back in the day, it was a it was a kiss and then the camera would drift over to an open window and some billowing curtains and then pan back over and people are smoking cigarettes and the covers are pulled up to their chins. So obviously, as sex scenes become more graphic and realistic, you need people there to make sure that everything's copacetic.

2:55Is that correct? Yeah, I think the position came out of the Me Too movement, where all of a sudden, the awareness of some of the abuses in Hollywood became very apparent. And as a result, producers started being willing to pay for someone to be there, both for guaranteeing that actors can consent to what's being asked of them. in a private setting with someone who's not in charge of hiring or firing them. Oh, right, right. And then also exactly what you're saying, the artistic side of it, which is the fun part, is making the scenes more believable, authentic, compelling, absurd, whatever the need of that project is.

3:42Okay. I mean, I'm curious. First of all, how did you become, how does one become an intimacy coordinator? Yeah, well, nowadays, there's schools you can go to. But I started back in 2016. I was an actor for a bunch of years, and I tended to get cast in roles that involved intimacy or trauma. And I realized that I'd taken years and years of study. I have my MFA in performance, and all of my teachers taught me how to get to the place of grief or fear or terror, but not how to get back from it. And I had a summer that I was doing three shows in a row, three theater shows, where I cried for four months, basically, in every show.

4:28And I was like, I need a way to come back to who I am that's healthy. So I started creating a warm down for actors and theater started bringing me in to teach it. And then I'm queer. I came out late in life. And when I came out, I realized right away I wanted to tell queer stories because I hadn't come out earlier because I hadn't seen representation of bisexuality. bisexuality. So I wanted to tell those stories, but I realized I had a straight lens. And so I took a year and every day for a year, I read something or listened to a podcast or watched a show or took a class all on queer sex and storytelling, BDSM and kink.

5:10And then theaters started bringing me in to stage that bondage scene. And then one day a theater said, hey, will you be our intimacy director again? And I was like, dear Google, what is an intimacy director? And right about that time, it was being named and people were paying for it. And I realized that this thing that I was doing that involved boundaries and consent, choreography and closure, which is the warm down section, there was now a field. And so I kind of had that, you know, when people say that luck is when preparation meets opportunity. Yeah. I mean, that was my journey and it was awesome.

5:51And then when the pandemic hit, I switched to film and TV, film first. And then I got to do my first TV scene on June 1st, the first day of Pride on Harlem. And it was a queer scene. And that was pretty awesome. And I was hooked. Oh, well, good. I mean, first of all, congratulations on, I'm very happy when people find it takes a long time. Sometimes, you know, it can take all different amounts of time, but it can take a very long time to find sort of your calling, you know, what you, what you feel like you were put here to do. And it found, it sounds like you, it didn't happen overnight, but you found it.

6:27And that's got to be incredibly rewarding. I have to say one thing is that I could see a lot of charlatans getting into the business and saying, yeah, I'm an intimacy coordinator, but they're not, are there ways that you can say I'm licensed? Is there a license you can get? Is there any way that they can patrol it so that it creeps like me don't become intimacy coordinators? That's what I'm saying. You're like, do it, guys. Yeah. Hey, you guys, why don't you do it? And I'll watch. Conan, why are we doing this at a campground? Quiet. This is my method. You know, this isn't even in the scene. Yeah.

7:05Why are you taping this with an old Super 8 camera. So, yeah, that's what I'm saying is, you know, we need to stop people like me from becoming NBC coordinator. How are you doing that? I'm really glad you brought it up because I am here specifically to stop you from doing that. Yes! Yes! Oh, okay. All right. Well, just try. There isn't any licensing. There are schools that offer certification or accreditation or a diploma. But really, the marker, in my opinion, is SAG-AFTRA came out with guidelines for intimacy coordinators, which is a number of things you should be trained in. It adds up to a minimum, I think, of 75 hours.

7:53And then in order to be on the SAG-AFTRA registry, you have to have worked on a SAG set for at least 60 days. so if a producer's really looking for someone who's super qualified then that's one way to tell to tell but i also think asking someone about their process is really useful because not every ic is great for every project right and i'm a big believer that uh you need the right ic for your project um what is uh i mean i want to get into some of this because there's so much i don't understand, but, um, there are, are there devices or kinds of garments that people wear because you can't really have, uh, people, you know, touch, touching each other certain parts.

8:41Right. So what's, what is the barrier to that? What is, cause I've always heard that there are these things and you hear about it and you're like, I don't know what they're talking about. Yeah. You're exactly right. It's called a barrier. Okay. And if it's a SAG-AFTRA film, there can be no actual sex acts. So a barrier can look a number of ways. It could look like this. Oh, yes. This is... That is the least sexy thing of everything. Sona went, oh, yes. And you're basically holding up what looks like a giant eye patch. And Sona's like, oh, yeah. I'm glad she has props with her. Okay, so what is that?

9:22That's a barrier. So you're correct that sometimes filming these scenes is the least sexy thing you'll ever do. This is a modesty garment with a barrier. It's made by Covier in New York. And basically, this is for someone with external genitalia. Some might call that a penis. And basically, you would put everything in here, and then you would pull it tight, and then it's taped to the top of, like right below your belly button and inside is a barrier. And a barrier is meant to reduce sensation and prevent the transmission of fluids. Okay, now a couple of things here. First of all, that thing seems huge.

10:06What do you do with all the extra room? Is that for cash and credit cards too? Absolutely. Cell phone? I'm just looking at that thinking, and thinking like there's a lot of extra room. You know, I don't know what kind of freaks you're working with, but I'm keeping a book in there. But Brooke, okay, fluids. Yeah. We have to talk about this. Is this something, and I'm asking if you're listening right now and there are children in the car, you know, what are you doing? But do people get themselves in a state while they're acting where there could be various secretions? Honestly, not very often, if at all.

10:55Okay. If someone were to get aroused, for example, there are lots of things you can do to let that go. Just think about baseball. That's what I do. Just think about 1975 Red Sox and it all goes away. Oh, wait. No, it comes back with a vengeance. start thinking about Dwight Evans. That's a good looking man over there. Yeah. Right field. Anyway. So it doesn't happen that often. What is, oh my God. What is the thing that's depicted in most sex scenes that you see? That's the most inaccurate. You know what I mean? Something where you're like, yeah, they always do this in scenes and it's not how it really works.

11:40Well, two things actually, I would say, One, a very fast orgasm, where it's like we started touching and now we're all orgasming together at the same time. Yeah. But the other I would say is we often don't see the moment of insertion where all of a sudden they're just having sex. Yep. But in real life, it takes some effort for the penis to find a vagina, for example. and you mean the actual moment of coordinating this part goes into this part and it takes a second right yeah and i think because we're not actually doing it people forget that there needs to be that moment of reaction of like oh something new has happened whether it's a breath or a slight shift or something yes well first of all thank you for getting the word out there that sometimes there can be some fumbling,

12:38some confusion about what goes where. Which hole? No, hold on a second. Maybe one knows the hole, but it's dark. You're getting yelled at. Do you know what I mean? You're getting yelled at. Yeah, what are you doing? Some people like that. How can, so many years and you didn't get better? That kind of thing. oftentimes you're trying to eat a sandwich with one hand, you know, cause you didn't get a chance to eat after the podcast. I'm speaking very generally. Absolutely. You know, you've got, you're looking, you're trying to watch, uh, you know, television at the same time. Well, old clips of yourself, not current clips, but old clips of the TBS show.

13:27And before that, the NBC show. Oh, okay.

13:37This message is brought to you by Original Penguin. Original Penguin's been a staple of American style since 1955, known for blending vintage-inspired flair with an effortless original cool. This May and June, the focus is on Father's Day and preparing for summer style. The latest drop features bold prints, vibrant colors, and new swimwear. It's the perfect time to update the wardrobe with pieces that say vintage cool without trying too hard. I've had a couple of penguin shirts for years. I wear them all the time. I always get compliments. You look great in those penguin shirts. They like make you look buff.

14:09Yeah, they make me look buff. I think it's because there are muscles sewn in to the chest. Oh, okay. No, I'm just kidding. But they do. They look great. They feel really good. It's a timeless classic. So head over to originalpenguin.com and use code Conan for 20 % off your first order. Terms apply. Original penguin. Be an original.

14:32Hey, this summer, if your group chat's thrown around, we should get away. Consider Scottsdale, Arizona. Yeah. Sure, it's warm. That's kind of the point, isn't it? Because summer in Scottsdale comes with some very cool perks, like luxury resort rates starting at just$109 a night. For a luxury resort? Yeah. Sign me up. Ease into your trip and get your zen on with sunrise yoga, evening stargazing, and generous summer specials at Area Spas. Area Spas, sign me up. or book a sunrise tea time at a world-famous golf course at rates way less than usual. Plus, summer is the easiest time to land a reservation at Scottsdale's award-winning restaurants.

15:10You know, the ones people usually humble brag about getting into. Do you ever do that? Yeah, I sure do. I'm like, yeah, I got into that resort. Sure I did. Yeah. No shortage of indoor air-conditioned spots to visit museums, boutiques, art galleries in the Southwest's largest shopping mall. I've driven through Scottsdale. It's very nice there. I like Scottsdale. It's fun. It's a good time. Visit summerinscottsdale.com and start planning your trip.

15:36Peyronie's disease, also known as PD, is a condition that isn't talked about often, but it's more common than many men realize. Some men may even feel embarrassed or reluctant to bring it up. PD may involve a buildup of scar tissue that forms under the skin of the penis, which can cause a noticeable curve of the bump during an erection. That curve can lead to pain during intimacy, it also may affect a man's confidence and mental health. It also can lead to frustration, depression, lowered self-esteem, and even withdrawal from sexual activity and physical intimacy. If you notice a curve with a bump down there, it might be PD.

16:08The good news is it's treatable. A urology specialist can diagnose Peyronie's disease and talk through treatment options. To learn more, visit talkaboutpd.com.

16:20Petivity is an ecosystem of smart devices and at-home health tests that help pet owners provide a new standard of care to the pets they love. You have a dog, Sona. I do. She's very special. I have two dogs and three cats, so this could be interesting for me. These products transform your pet's most important data into real insights about their well-being, giving you the peace of mind that you're doing all you can to provide the best care possible. Proactively monitor your pets with PetTivity. Does this make sense? Yeah, it does. You don't want to wait until your pet has a problem. You want to be proactive.

16:51Yeah, you want them to live forever. Visit PetTivity.com. P-E-T-I-V-I-T-Y.com to learn more about all the PetTivity smart devices and at-home health tests.

17:08So much of intimacy is about reaction. So if we don't have those moments of reaction, we lose it. And so much of us get our education from media, our sexual education. and so when we show these things are impossible and of course we can traumatize things but we're doing we're doing a disservice to folks well people now watch these things and they think oh uh you know it's easy to do it standing up in the kitchen um do you know what i mean and it's yeah i'm telling you it's not it's not easy especially if the fridge is open it's cold you know what i mean? And then you try to incorporate cake batter that's nearby.

17:54Well, because you see it and you think this will be a good idea. And then you get yelled at again. I need to throw up.

18:02Cake batter. Come on. I can't. I got to go. Where are you going? You got nowhere to go.

18:11What do you use? Do you use drawings, charts? What do you do to try and instruct people when you're explaining how the sex scene should work? Kinds of things. Sometimes I just use my words. Like, sometimes I do use images. Sometimes I use action figures. You use action figures? See, we've got a little position. Wait a minute, what's happening there? I need to try and figure out what's happening. So this gentleman on the bottom is laying down, enjoying himself. Couldn't tell what the sex was of that person because it looks like a Lego. Yeah, and this other gentleman is up, one knee on the ground, one foot up, and he's pleasuring this guy.

18:45And if we wanted to turn it into a threesome. Right. we could just add her. Okay, she's underneath him. And she's gonna grab onto his leg and she's fisting. Oh, she's fisting? Yeah, she's gonna fist this guy. She's pushing her fist. Okay, so, all right. That is two males and one, right? Describe what's happening here. Yeah, two, in this case, it's two men and one woman. You've gotta check out the video, by the way, and it's on YouTube. You've gotta see it. It's incredible. um but yeah this is a this this would be a kind of particularly difficult scene to just talk through yeah i mean try to try to explain that that's a yeah so i have that's an escher drawing you don't know the stairs are turning into more stairs are turning into more i mean it's a very confusing that's a dolly painting there's a melting clock in the corner uh so yeah okay i see what's happening that's not a situation that it probably comes along every day you know no not that one specifically yeah probably not and what movie was that for is that toy story 5 what is that you just got fired from it they're now editing me out of toy story 5 as we speak don't worry it's a 100 million dollar fix at the last second pixar has the money um so you have those uh those figurines ready to go.

20:10I mean, it's not like you have to improvise with a G.I. Joe and a Thor and an Iron Man, right? No, I have a whole kit of stuff I bring to set. I bet you do. Whether it be the barriers you saw, these guys. I use this for a barrier sometimes. What is that? That looks like a turkey. This is just a Squishmallow. But sometimes if someone's having a rough day, it's a little bit hilarious if I just put this between the two people. Because you can't have a bad day when you've got a Squishmallow near you. So. I think I'm aware that I'm not an actor every time, a true actor every time I see a sex scene.

20:46And I think, I don't know how these people do this, you know, because there's 75 people around them. Yeah. And I just can't imagine how they do it. Orgasm, you know, pretending to orgasm. Yeah. It's just, you know, And then there's a sound guy, you know, two inches away from you who just had a liverwurst sandwich. And you know what I mean? Yeah. Or a cha, tobacco. And it's insane. Absolutely. I mean, this is why we don't get aroused very often because there's all these people around. But you could do it if you wanted to, Conan, because it's actually so technical. Like, I worked with an actor recently on an orgasm, and we choreographed it.

21:33We, like, voice-ographied it. with what the breaths were going to be, what the vocal sounds were going to be, so that she didn't have to make any of it up. It was ready to go. Anyone can do it if they want to do it. Okay, but here's my question. Do people ever, because sometimes they're drawing from personal experience. So when an actor is pretending to orgasm, they're really telling you often what they sound like or the sounds they make, which is very personal. Right. Isn't that kind of strange? Has anyone ever revealed their sounds to you? And you're like, oh, boy, you know what I mean? Well, someone comes in.

22:15That's why this position. Go ahead. But I'm just saying I'm going to take this a little further. Oh, no. Let's say you were working with me and I was in a movie where it's required that I have sex. OK. And there's a scene and you say, okay, Conan. And I'll say, well, let me just freestyle the first one. And we've got the little squishy between me and the actress. And squish, squish, squish. And I'm there and I'm going, I just, you hear me freestyle. I'm going, oh, oh, oh, Walt Whitman, you know? and you realize that, oh, Jesus Christ, those are the sounds Conan makes. And then when he reaches his climax, he shouts the name of one of our great poets, Walt Whitman.

23:08I mean, I've just revealed to you, and I think I just did right now, to everybody listening, what my jam is. That's my jam. I think that's one of the reasons that it's so important to have an intimacy coordinator because actors should not have to bring their personal experience to set. Brooke is going to her job. I know. So you're saying you would prevent me from using my true noises and my certain peccadillos in a scene? I would give you the opportunity to do something that the character would do rather than what you're suggesting. But what if the character's name is Cronin Orion? and he's a tall Irish guy from Boston.

23:52You know what? You go for it. Okay. Yeah. I just, I think it's endlessly fascinating. And I bet you they're always coming up with new technology. They're going to keep coming up with new things. Like here's a spray that the guy can put on his penis that encases it in a inert goo that will, you know, keep his penis from becoming around. You know, they'll come up with all kinds of crazy new stuff. you know i know they will i don't think they have i want this spray come on science hey nasa let's get on it that's what we need is nasa in the intimacy coordinator i think we could make a partnership here i'm just saying um i i do think all foolishness aside which is a lot of foolishness aside, but it's really good that you're there doing this.