Remembering Paul Reubens

27:47It's just to collect myself because I'm so blown away by your tapping. So are you, to this day, do you wish you'd been a child star? Are you thinking, I mean, it all worked out so well for you. Yes, no, when I actually finally, quote unquote, made it in Hollywood, I was so happy that I was older. You know, I was in my late 70s, I think, when that happened. Right. And I was very, very happy that I didn't make it as like a teenager or a 20-year-old. It goes so badly for anyone who gets in as a child. So badly that the only example they have of it going well is Jodie Foster. Of all the hundreds and thousands of people that have been child stars, they always say, Jodie Foster turned out okay.

28:29So there's one. Everyone else murders and sets fires before they're 15 years old. Is that true, Sona? I don't know. Natalie Portman? Murderer. Oh, okay. She wasn't caught, but she's, yeah, she committed a series of crimes in the Pacific Northeast. Ryan Reynolds? No, I'm thinking about Ryan Gosling. See, you can't even do it. Ryan Gosling was in the Mickey Mouse Club. Yeah, Ryan Gosling, arsonist. Oh. Convicted. You said - Jason Bateman. Yeah, Jason Bateman. Have you hung out with Jason Bateman? Oh, I'm too scared. It didn't turn out well. Yeah. Okay. Ron Howard. Ron Howard stole jewelry from graves.

29:05That's a true story. When I first met. These are all true stories about celebrities, and don't even bother to look it up because it's just that true. And don't bother to mention it to them or their lawyers. Ron Howard, a grave robber. I'm having dinner with Ron Howard as soon as this is over. Well, notice he's. He doesn't know about it yet. Guess what? Notice this. Take a good look. He'll be wearing four watches and six rings, and they'll be covered in dirt. Oh, my God. I was at a meeting many years ago. Well, I have two Ron Howard stories, I'd like to tell you really slowly right now. One of them is when I first met Ron Howard, I auditioned for Night Shift?

29:46Was that the movie with Michael Keaton? Yes, Michael Keaton, I believe, yes. That was Michael Keaton's breakout role. I auditioned, well, that could have been my Rocky. That could have been me. Did you audition for Rocky as well? I did not. Okay. You auditioned for Ron Howard for this big role. You're bringing me back. You bet. I have to. So, yes. And I blew the whole audition. I mean, one of many reasons I blew the audition. But the main thing is I couldn't not go, as soon as I sat down to go, I got to just tell you, Mr. Howard, I was so jealous of you when I was a kid. And I practically had to lay down and tell my story.

30:30You told him how much you resented him as a child actor? Yes, I did. You never do that? I never told you this? No, no, but I'm just saying that what a mistake to tell him I bitterly hated you. Hindsight is 2040, isn't it? Like, isn't that what people say? I would have known not to do that at the time. And I think it's common sense. I did not. I didn't know. So you told Ronnie. That was my second audition. The only other audition I'd ever had for a movie before that was in The Chosen with Robbie Benson. Oh, my God. I can't even say that without laughing, but. Robbie Benson was the teen heartthrob of the day.

31:02That could have been my Rocky. I think we all find the path that we're meant to find. And I read that somewhere. I think it was on a cookie. Well, I later went to a meeting in a skyscraper with Ron Howard and his partner. And in the middle of a pitch, I was just sort of nervously reaching around behind me on the couch I was sitting at. And I stuck my hand in the crack of the couch, and there was money in it. like coins had fallen down. And I stopped in the middle of this pitch and practically squealed like a pig and went, oh, my God, there's money back here. And I stood up and pulled the cushion out and started like pulling like coins out.

31:44And then I turned around and everyone in the room's mouth, jaws were dropped open. And I was like, oh, my God. I mean, people were looking at me like, are you kidding me? You're a disaster. It was horrible. I made so many mistakes like that. Right. And I'd like to tell you all 40 or 50. I want to hear them, but first we're going to take a quick break.

32:09And now we're back. Good break, huh? Oh, that was quick. I feel like we didn't even have a break, but. We really didn't. They're inserting some commercials later on. Commercials that'll earn us hundreds of dollars. Okay. You'll see a small part of that. Us, huh? Yeah, us. Okay. I share the wealth equally with everyone in this room. Yes. Headpoints in this podcast? This particular one episode? I'm just, you know, if you say yes right now, you're on, you're done. Hey, whatever change you can find here, whatever coins you can find here, you can keep and that is your payment. I'd just like to point out I'm not even on a couch.

32:40I'm in a, you know, what is this? It's an office chair. What do you call this, a chair? Can I just say one of the things that delighted me so much in your work is that you would call a chair cherry, that everything was alive. When I was a kid, that was my sense of humor is that everything was alive. And everything ended in E. Cherry, clocky, floaty. Everything ends with E. But I really was the kind of kid that would put something in a drawer and say, thanks, drawer. And the drawer would be like, just doing my part. And, you know, I'm still like that. I still, I love a world where everything's alive.

33:18I think that's the kind of world I want to live in. I used to like that. Now I like a world where everything is dead. Oh, my goodness. Pretty much. No, I'm just kidding. I kid because I'm a professional kidder. Yeah. And I, although you would be the judge of that better than me. I don't think so. I'm not trying to set you up here or myself, but I, yeah. You seem like a kid to me that would have, just based on your sense of humor and what you came up with, that you would have had an active imagination and worked out all these fantasies in your head when you were a kid. You know, there are people like that I, comedians I talk to where I say, yeah, I picture them up in their room creating a whole world, you know.

34:03And then there's the other type of comedian that just angrily goes out and they craft their comedy out of loathing and revenge. Which one are you? I'm going to bet the first one. Hmm. Let me think about that for 15 or 20 minutes. You really don't understand this format, do you? No. No, I was going to ask you, and then we just jumped in so fast, but the pod part of it is the part I didn't really understand. And I was going to look it up before. I don't know. I've not been doing this for very long, and I don't know why they're called podcasts. I don't know anything about it. I do it. People that have put a lot of thought into podcasts are enraged by my indifference to the whole medium.

34:44But I enjoy it, but I don't know what pod means. I don't know why it's called podcast. Yeah, me neither. And I don't even really care. I mean, I'm here, right? I mean, I didn't go like, you know, unless you can explain what pod means, I'm not doing it. You're just here for a free meal. Can I just jump in with one story I just thought of that I was trying to think of? That's the whole point of what we're doing. Oh. You're allowed to, when you think of something that you think would be good. I just put it in a pod and send it off. Yeah. So when I put the headphones on, they still call these headphones, right?

35:18I put the headphones on, and I listen to my voice coming through the headphones, and I'm like, wow, who is that nasally voice there? Because, you know, I just like, I don't ever like to listen to my voice, so I won't be listening to this podcast. I'm just telling you now. But when I made my tape to Walt Disney, soon after that, I believe, I think it was shortly after that, because it was the end of my singing career for many, many years, I went to New York with my dad, and we went in a booth where you could make a record. You put money in, and you would sing into a microphone, and then a record would come out.

36:00And we lived really far away. And I probably sang the same song that I had sang for Walt Disney. This was a couple years later, so it was different technology. I went from reel to reel, tape to vinyl. and I'd like to take a break, commercial break, and then come back to the rest of this story in a couple hours. I held that record on my lap all the way back to Oneonta, New York, like a two or three hour drive from Manhattan, and ran in the house and put it on the record player and listened to about the first four notes. It was, I think, like maybe the first or second time, maybe the first. I probably recorded that thing for Walt Disney and never even checked it.

36:42So this might be the first time you're really listening to your voice. Right. And I freaked out so bad that I grabbed the record and ran outside and smashed it on the sidewalk. And didn't sing again until I auditioned for some musical when I was like a young teen, like 13 or something. So you heard your voice for the first time. I mean, now with phones and everything, the technology we have now, everyone hears their voice all the time. But, yeah, you hadn't heard your own voice. No, no, I had it, Conan, I had it, you weren't? No, it was horrible. Was that laughing or crying? I couldn't tell. I don't know what it was.

37:14Okay, well, it was a bad acting. Finding the change in the couch did not cost you that audition. No. Ooh, ooh. I think it was that crying that did it. Good thing this is your show, buddy. May I call you buddy? I wish you would. I just did. I wish you would. No, I, what can you say? That's pretty comfortable story, that boring. Nothing. That was a good story. Wait a minute. That was a touching story. I just picture you going out, and I picture it being snowy, and there's snow banks, and I picture you rushing out into the snow and hurling it against the asphalt, and it shatters, and then I see a bread truck going by, and Mr.

37:49Panchetta leaning out and going, what's the matter, boy? And you say, my voice, my voice, I'll never make it in the business. He says, here, have a warm biscuit. And he hands you one, and you bite into it, and you know things will work out. It's so close to what really happened, except he leaned out and said, it's GIF.

38:09in that accent that you just said. I don't do accents. You worked with, I want to bring this up because I worked with the man at Sarnet Live for a number of years, Phil Hartman. I know you guys worked together. Did you do improv with Phil? Yes. Back in the day? Yeah, he was in the groundings. He was just so fantastic. I just found a whole bunch of photos of Phil in a box that I'm going through all these, looking for all this stuff to show during the Pee Wee's Big Adventure 35th anniversary tour. And so I found a bunch of photos of Phil. Because Phil worked on the movie with you. Phil co-wrote Big Adventure.

38:45Yeah. Yeah. You know, people always ask me about Phil. And I always say, well, for my money, he was the best utility player that Sarnet Live has ever had. He could play anything. He could be the dad in one sketch, then the juvenile delinquent in the next sketch. And so he was amazing that way. And the other thing I loved about, that was remarkable about Phil, is that all the years I worked with him, people said, well, what was he like? He was always in character, kind of, when I would try to talk to him. I'd come in and I'd go, hi, Phil, and he'd be like, hello, kid. And then he'd say, keep him flying, boys.

39:18To me and the other rioters, keep him flying. That's the way to go, fellas. And he would always talk like he was in a sort of a parody of a World War II movie. And then I'd see him out in the world sometimes. I'd see him walking down the street and be like, hey, Phil, how are you? Oh, it's aces, kid. I thought, so I don't know. No, he was like that. You probably, I don't know if you broke through and saw a different Phil, but that's the Phil I always saw. No, he was just like that with me. Me and Phil and John Paragon were the three kind of guys at the Groundlings. And we would sit in my car in the parking lot and just spend all hours and hours fantasizing about what it would be like if we were ever working actors and made our living as actors and stuff.

40:01But it was just, when I think back on it now, it was so amazing and corny. You turned me on to this amazing, like, secret magic show once, which we don't have to talk about if I'm not supposed to talk about it. No, no, it's— But you took me to—you said, hey, I've got something you might be interested in, and I thought you were going to sell me drugs, to be honest with you. And I was hoping that that's what would happen. But you didn't. You took me into this really interesting part of Los Angeles to this magical place where they put on kind of a burlesque show. and I took my wife, and it was just amazing.

40:35Then there was a party afterwards, but it felt like it was this secret world that nobody in L.A. knows about, and I'm sort of loath to even talk about it because I don't want to ruin the sort of coolness of it. Well, in actuality, they're making a documentary that's going to include quite a bit of stuff about that. The place you're talking about, the actual location of it is called Brookledge. That's the name of this property, And it was at one time the destination for magicians before the Magic Castle. And the family, it was the Larson family that owned that property and still owns that property.

41:12And the two Larson brothers founded the Magic Castle. But their property, one of their property, Brookledge, had a little theater, has a little theater in the backyard that seats, I think it's about a 70-seat theater. It's tiny. And it's over a creek. There's a real creek that runs through this property in the middle of Los Angeles. And it's, there's, I guess, an underground, this is, I don't know, this would be something you might know about. I've never heard of it. You haven't heard of this? Because it sounds so up your alley. I don't know who you think I am, but yeah. There's a, apparently like a river that runs underneath Los Angeles, and then it surfaces, or a creek, and it surfaces in this one little neighborhood.

41:55and it runs right through this estate. So there's a little babbling brook. Part of Los Angeles, I can't say. Oh, I think that's too personal. I think it was a mistake, us even saying Los Angeles. No, the reason is because they're making a documentary about the Magic Castle and this family in Brookledge. And this will be part of it. There's quite a bit of stuff about Brookledge. Well, it was magical. And I think you must know about all kinds of stuff like that. That's the absolute best one I know about. I do know about a few other places. Like a couple of times, the podcast is called Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend.

42:29And you and I have talked recently about getting together and getting a meal. And I don't want to pick the place. I want you to pick the place. I sent you great places, like three places. I thought we'd be doing it after this podcast, but, you know, I never heard back from you. That's not true. It is true. That's not true. Don't make me go and resend that email. You sent me an email that invited me to— I said, like, what do you do after the podcast that I'll be doing on this date, like, weeks ago? Weeks. I mean, I'll give you one thing. It was over the holidays. Oh, that might explain it. You were probably in...

43:03I was in Shtod. ...Santro Pays. No, I was in Shtod. I was in Shtod with some of the biggest celebrities you can imagine. The Weeknd. Oh, my God. True story. I was in Shtod with The Weeknd. Why are you laughing at that? Why is that funny to you? I feel like you just said any name that you think is hip and cool. You just saw Uncut Gems. Yeah. No. I was in Stodd with The Weeknd, and if you doubt me, you can ask The Weeknd. Oh, I'm sorry to use it. Was it for The Weeknd? Yeah, you were in Stodd for The Weeknd. I think you're mistaken. No, I didn't mean that. I want to do more episodes of this. Listen, first of all, we'll see.

43:47We'll see how this pans out. I get it. It's the way you want to be. I know The Weeknd also, by the way. And The Weekday. Listen, all of your references so far have been Betty Grable is the newest reference you've made. The Weeknd. I just said The Weeknd. You just repeated me. And I said it because I think I saw it on a blog. Anyway, I was interested in The Weeknd, so I did not see what you're talking about. And I'm a notoriously bad emailer. I'm not comfortable in the world of email. I prefer a letter in the mail. It's really how I prefer things. I've sent several letters, too. I resorted to email only after, as I was saying to Grace Kelly and Monica just recently about this very subject.

44:29But here's what I want to know. Over the weekend, by the way. Are we going to, I kept thinking, I want Paul to figure this out because I want to go someplace interesting. If it's up to me, it's going to be the Cheesecake Factory. That's where I wanted to go. Did you really? No. I was going to go to the cheese something factory, but. What are you doing? You just grab a pen. I'm going to write down the name so I don't have to say it out loud and see if you've ever been to this restaurant because it's so, you have been there. I have been there. That's where I was going to suggest. Only if you had never.

45:04He just wrote Hooters. Only if. On a piece of paper. I've been there. Only if you had never been here because. But I'd go there again. It's close to here. And this time of year, the view is incredible. We're not talking about Hooters, by the way. That was just, you're just kidding the kidder, right? No, no, no. Of course. I did what was called a joke. I made a joke. It's called who tears. Who tears. Who give. I will go there with you to that place. We can't say because if word gets out, let's face it, Paul Rubens and Conan O 'Brien are going to a restaurant together. I wasn't sure if you could even go out.

45:36Like if you go out places and people just, you know, talk to you all the time. You know what I do? I go out dressed as lesser celebrities so that I'm not hassled. What? I really do. I go out disguised as a celebrity who I believe is a Nacho 2 below me. And I don't want to say any names because I think that's hurtful. But that way— Write one down. Oh, my God. Oh, I'm in total agreement over that one. Yeah. See? But then there's this one right here. Ooh. Ghosty. They're a ghost. No, I want to be bothered somewhat. I don't want to go out in disguise. I want people to kind of recognize me. and that's why I'll go out as someone who was like in a sitcom in the 1980s and hasn't worked much since so that people go oh you know and I get some attention but it's not the overwhelming there's Conan O 'Brien well you can just imagine the mania that would break out if I were seeing this I can only imagine it so you've been with me many times and it gets out of control it does not get out of control It gets completely out of control.

46:44Some people look at you and they're like, yeah. Is it him? No. Yeah. I feel like people look at me and go like, oh, my God. It's no. It's not. It can't be him. Well, let's talk about that because you made it in this huge way as this other entity. But when you walk around, people, do they know it's you right away? I don't think they do. But, you know, you know this, too. Or maybe you don't. Like, I can never tell. And I'm always very into it. As I walk down the street, I'm like, does this person recognize me? Do they recognize me? Are you thinking about that all the time? Oh, every second I'm wondering, are people recognizing me or not?

47:23You know what's funny? So if they do, there's a little anxiety, I bet, that they will recognize you because then you have to engage in conversation and the bubble will be broken. But if they don't recognize you, then your feelings are hurt. So you're in a fucked up situation. I was at your party at Christmas speaking with somebody about this very subject. I'm not making this up. And going, by the way, I am always in situations where people start to go, oh, my God, I really love you. And I love that thing you did. And it turns out to be you, the person that I was talking to. It was Martin Short.

48:02Really? All the time, people. I'm halfway through and I'm like, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. You're talking about Ed Grimley, not Pee Wee Herman. And they're like, oh. I mean they never go like the same difference People confuse you with Martin Short Yes, quite often And Does anyone ever Do you think anyone ever goes up to Martin Short And thinks that they're Paul Rubens If they do Martin Short wasn't kind enough to tell that That would have been nice if he said that to you He could have even made that up You know what I get a lot of If you're listening Marty I know your friends call you Marty God, you're so much You're so filled with venom I am struck a nerve, hit a nerve.

48:42Ooh. Yeah. A lot of people think I'm Greta Gerwig. I get that a lot now. What? They do. Come on. People say, oh my God, you're so young and you're beautiful. You're so much taller than you. Yeah, you're very tall. How did you do Little Women? How did you direct Little Women? And I go, and I'm happy in the first part. And then I suddenly, I'm like, no, no, no. I'm not Greta Gerwig. And then I talked to Greta Gerwig and she said, she does not get mistaken for me. I want to meet Greta Gerwig. I really do. That's a serious, real thing. I'm saying it on your show in case she's out there or any of her friends are going, Greta, he could be sending you GIFs or JIFs or whatever on your birthday.

49:21A lot of celebrities listen to this podcast. Really? And I'm going to say, and I'm not even kidding, there's a 95 % chance that Greta Gerwig is listening right now. Well, I'm out to her people already. Yeah, well, this is faster. All right. You're never going to get through her people. Okay. You know, after Little Women, that's a lot of people. I loved Little Women and I loved the other movie that she made before that. Lady Bird. Lady Bird. If you really loved it. I was trusting you. I knew the name of it. Lady Bird. That's the Lyndon Johnson story, right? It's the story of Lyndon Johnson and the musical score was by The Weeknd.

49:58So it all comes together. Full circle. Yeah. I know a lot of cool modern references. You seem to be very - Backwards. Backwards and back in the 40s and the 50s. But a day doesn't go by that I'm not listening to the latest rap by Awkwafina. What? Or, you know, wearing the latest threads. I know what to do. You couldn't even think of another person to name. I said Awkwafina and I think that's enough. I don't think I should be required to know other names than that. Oh, no. Paul, you and I, I think, don't need to know about the modern world because we both live in our own heads. We're happy where we are.

50:43We don't need to know who all these rappers are, you know? Why do I need to know what Most Def is doing? Oh, my God. You're asking the wrong person, though, really. I mean, you're, this is. Most Def, that's another one, right? Yeah. This is more an actor now? Yeah, I know. The Blind Boys of Alabama leading the Blind Boys of Alabama. Just to make a fairly current reference from a group from the last 40 or 50, 70 years. I don't think you and I should be communicating in this modern medium. The podcast is a modern medium listened to by a lot of very young, cool people. And you and I are not qualified to be here.

51:24What's the difference between a podcast and a radio show, by the way? Exactly. I think that all the time. Because I'm making a radio show, and people keep going, no, no, no, you're making a podcast. And I go, I think I know what I'm making. And they go, no. If you think you're making a radio show, then obviously you don't. A podcast. I love that story, don't you? I like the beginning, and I like the middle. I didn't like the end. The ending was disappointing. I can fix the end. I'll take that note. Yeah. Podcast can be listened to at any time. I suppose that's one of the big differences. Yeah.

51:56Podcast comes from iPod. It's a pun on broadcast, but it was invented or sort of like popularized by the iPod. I didn't know that, and I've been doing one of these for a year and a half, and I didn't know that. I bet a lot of people that are listening right this moment didn't know that. And we would have no way of knowing whether they're lying or not. Yeah. I assume they're all lying. Every single one of them. Look at that. You go angry. They're all liars. You go angry and bitter every time. Right away. Ever since you smashed that phonograph record in the snow. Mother Baker. you're a delightful fellow thank you you really are and I I know you're does that mean we're out of time no you're wrapping it up right now I can do whatever I want oh I'm the great thing about a podcast I'm just curious no one's breathing down my neck conserve my energy are we gonna go out to this place that you wrote down you mean right now I mean I can't go now for a lot of reasons N.A.

52:49not available I can't go now N.A. working hello oh ring ring ring ring ring pick up hello You mean that line of celebrities out there was all waiting to do their next podcast? You mean the Backstreet Boys, Griffin Dunn? Oh, my God. Wow.

53:14That's not good. Damn. Are you challenging me to come up with obscure names? Boys to men waiting out there in the hallway. Men at work. Yeah, men at work out there. Thompson twins. There you go. If it's an 80s name, I know it. We weren't doing 80s trivia, were we? No, but Sade is out there waiting to talk to me. Sade? She told me it was Sade. Yeah, well, she pronounces it GIF also, so. Did you really have this evening booked? Did you think you and I were going to have to go to dinner tonight? because I want to go to dinner with you. I hoped. When are we going to get to go? Let's just say I used the word hope in my mind.

53:59When are we going to go? But as I got in the car to come over here, I realized, yeah, I haven't heard from him still. What is it now, seven weeks? I take it easy. I was in Shtod with The Weeknd. What I want to do is make sure that we do this meal. For three months you were there? Okay, go ahead. It's your show. The Weeknd is a very slow skier. Listen, you and I— Downhill skier. Isn't that the name of a movie? Oh, my God. Downhill racer? Downhill something. Are you okay? What's happening? I don't know. Dunhill? Cigarettes? I'll take things that begin with done for 100. Well, I think we're done.

54:37How about that? Ding, ding, ding. Ding, ding. Segway. Pretty good, huh? Yeah. We are out of time. I do have to go and speak to all the guests that are waiting to speak with me. I have a lot of important things to do myself right now. Oh, you do? Oh, absolutely. You just made it very clear that you had dinner blocked out for me. No. I take it all back. Do you have someone you can have dinner with? Can we do a second take of this whole show? I think we just did. This is fantastic. I think you should be very happy with it. I'm thrilled. I am so thrilled. I'm trying my best not to go dark and bitter right this second.

55:10But, no, I like it. And my people will be contacting you immediately as soon as I get in the car. You have no people, do you? No.

55:22Paul listen you seem really busy I'm gonna let you let me run and that was that was defensive I will you and I are gonna have this this dinner we're gonna have this dinner and it's gonna be a really good time early 2021 I'm thinking right we're gonna do it this month oh we're doing it this month I wish I could I mean I wish I was available you're not you're booked the whole month well I'm going out on tour I don't think I've mentioned that more than two or three times have I How can people see this show? We've got to get the word out. It's sold out. So I have no reason to plug it whatsoever. I love it when people plug stuff that's sold out.

55:58Yeah, me too. Fuck you. What a good feeling. You want to come? Good luck. Good luck. You missed the boat there, Skittles. What's your problem? I'm so sorry. It's a candy. Okay. Paul, thank you so much. When we do go to dinner, I will pay for two-thirds of it. Thank you. And you can't thank me enough, I feel. You can't do enough for me, I feel. You have dead eyes. I'll just say that at the end Just looking right through me

56:28Scared? Frightened? Now you're just making sounds This is the end of the podcast With Paul Rubens Goodbye everyone

56:43Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend With Conan O 'Brien, Sonam Ovsessian And Matt Gorley Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Nick Liao, and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Earwolf. Theme song by The White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering by Eduardo Perez. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent Booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode Got a question for Conan?

57:25Call the Team Coco hotline at 323-451-2821 and leave a message It too could be featured on a future episode And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded

57:44you