Robert Smigel (and Triumph the Insult Comic Dog)

23:35But his dream was not that. Like you say, you did Happy, Happy, Good Show, and you were always the funniest guy in the room at SNL. And I was more like, you know, broody Tom Janovich, you know, just brooding writer. My hero was like Sylvester Pat Weaver, the guy who created the Today Show and the Tonight Show. I love the idea. I think that's the saddest thing I've ever heard anybody say. I was a pathetic nerd. Blair doesn't understand. Did you have a big poster of Pat Weaver? I do, I do understand. He understands. No, I would go to the Museum of Broadcasting or whatever, radio and television, and revel in these old, like Dave Garroway, talking to a chimp on the Today Show in the 50s.

24:16But what was interesting is, so they came, they said to me, okay, you're gonna do this. And I said it then, I say it now, I said, I can do this if I do it with Robert. I said, I can do this if I do it with Robert Smigel, but I can't do it if it's not with Robert Smiley. And I don't think I ever heard that. I know you said, you told me you wanted me to do it. I know. I didn't tell you I wanted you to do it. I said, you have to do it. And then I remembered there was stuff about, well, Robert's contract. We're not sure. And I was. Lauren just didn't want me to leave. No, I know. But I was yelling at NBC, give him every, you know, like give him, take stuff from me and give it to him.

24:52Like we have to do this together because I knew then I had a shot. And, and, and it's true. Don't get self-conscious because I'm complimenting you. Take the paper away, that's my job.

25:13We had very little time to put the show together. I mean, it stuns me now that I think by the time, by the time I was done doing the affiliates dance and everything, I think it was June and the show had to be on the air in September, September 13th of 1993, it's June. And there's just a big empty space where Dave's studio was. And we had no writers. We had nothing. But I knew Robert and I will just start, we'll go. And we worked our, we didn't sleep. We worked like crazy all summer long. It was the best. It was so, it was my dream job. And I was working with you. It was just like the best guy I could work with.

25:50And I have to confess, when he first told me, and you know this, you remember the conversation, I'm sure. When you first told me, Lorne wants me to audition, there was a part of me that was like scared yeah like hey guess what me too but but i'll never i'll remember this very clearly you were like gee i don't know because if it's hard that's a hard way to break into show business that's what i said if you if you it's gonna be hard for anybody i mean the only person it wouldn't have been hard for is i think gary shandling gary shandling was a name they were oh yeah and if he had done it it would have been absolutely brilliant from day one and because he's gary shandling but everyone else would have taken some knocks for not being dave But I was gonna take a lot of knocks because complete unknown and no experience.

26:31And I remember so clearly, I remember where I was. I was living in this little apartment on Weatherly. And I had this tiny little nook. I had a phone and a phone machine back when you had a phone machine. And I'm talking to you and you're sort of saying, I'm saying, yeah, they're thinking maybe I should audition because they're looking for the right person. And Lauren said, you know, he's got a look and maybe and Conan's funny. He's a look and he's very polite and he's got the hair and the funny first name. And it may be, that's a thing. And so - And he'll be cheap. And he'll, oh, trust me. You'll get him for nothing.

27:05And so they - My salary, non-negotiable. Just because I'm saying you're gonna save money on him, not me. So I remember talking to you and you were rightly - I was shumbly. You were shumbly. You were saying, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. And then in the background, I heard like a Charlie Brown parent voice go, womp, womp, womp, womp, womp. And I said, what was that? And you said, well, that was Michelle. Yeah. Because, you know, your wife, and not wife at the time, girlfriend at the time, I think. Yes, yes. And you said, and she said, womp, womp, womp, womp, womp. And I said, what's she saying?

27:42And she's saying, and you said, Michelle said, he's got nothing to lose. Right. And then you said, huh, I think that's kind of true. Like, why not? And then, of course, I thought, yeah, I guess I could be a national joke. But that was the fear the first year. The fear was the first year was who's the famous national joke. I have to say also that like so then I did hesitate a tiny bit. It was like a few hours. I was like, wow, man, I don't know, man, if he can do it. I just he's never been on TV. And and then I just thought to myself. So, like, you know, we both love performing and I got to do a few things on Weekend Update.

28:20I did. And Conan was already with the Simpsons. And I just remembered like this guy helped me for hours with my stupid weekend update feature, Moron's Perspective. And I'm like, I'm hesitating. It's a fucking asshole. And I called you back and I was like, yeah, yeah. I mean, this is my buddy. But then I had, I never once celebrated. Like I end up, I audition, they think about it and then they give it to me and never, I was always scared and always filled with the sense of responsibility. And here it is now over 30 years later. And I have never once, I don't think I celebrate anything. I mean, I don't, but I just was always like, well, we'll see, we'll see.

29:00And still now I'm 60 and I'm going, we'll see. We'll see. We'll see how it happens. But I think it was appropriate not to celebrate getting that show because it was not like getting cast in an amazing role. It felt to me in a very Catholic way, like this is a test and you're going to have to walk through hell. And then that's what happened. That is what happened. But I remember. So then he had that audition, which was incredible. I mean, I guess it was. And then I asked him about it and he said, well, I had nothing to lose. And he was like in front of, I don't know how many people were in that room.

29:35I don't know. It was a tiny. No, it was a good size. I don't know, 100 people. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and he interviewed Jason Alexander and Mimi Rogers, and his Mimi Rogers interview was just like professional, hysterical. And then I just turned on a dime. I was like, this guy's going to be enormous. And then he was so funny and hilarious. When we assembled writers, we all got incredibly overconfident. Yes. We're like, everybody's going to have a pompadour within six months. I really believe this. I was like, everybody's gonna wanna have long skinny pants. I was positive. And so everyone's gonna be one I have kind of like ambivalent, ambiguous gender.

30:19It was a good thing though. He's kind of a guy, but also just a little bit of a girl. For his, he stayed nervous, but the rest of us were so confident and it was great because it made us try everything. We were fearless. We tried every idea. And obviously some went to shit, but it's still the proudest achievement of my whole career easily is how much stuff we did generate. If you look at the first two years, that's the thing that I'm stunned. Well, even if you worked at the first three weeks, there's so much material that you did forever. Yeah. On the late night show. We did the clutch cargo in the year 2000, actual items.

30:56There's so many things that, but then we kept, we never stopped trying to try new things. And I remember people used to, who were in the business would say, I mean, I remember even David Letterman saying, that's insane. Because we were basically trying to do Saturday Night Live every night. Yes. Which is impossible. And then finally, you could smell the smoke of like the gears grinding. Yes. People going insane. No one's sleeping. It's funny because like so many, I think I've told you this story. So like in 19, and it was a lot of it stemmed from people on the staff who just didn't believe in us.

31:31some people, some people really believe, you know, like Frank's back there and Paula and, and, um, but then, uh, you know, like, so in 1999 or 90 or 2009, I visited the Fallon set. And yeah, cause back then when we did it, people were like, it's every night live we're doing over here. I visited the Fallon set and everybody was like all perky and happy. And they were doing really ambitious shit when he first started in late night. They were doing all these detailed film pieces and literally crew members said to me it's like every night live they were super excited about because jimmy had been on television for like 10 years yeah it's it's interesting you said that there's one thing i wanted to bring up was uh last year we lost uh one of the most important people that ever worked on the show bill tall yes bill tall was a legendary prop master who looked, just if you want a visual, Bill Tull started with us and was with us for years and years and years and years.

32:32And Bill Tull looked like a Nordic god. I mean, very tall, incredible build, incredibly handsome face. Yeah. And then we started using him in sketches, so you could look him up. Yeah, later on. Later on. But long, long white hair. Yeah. And he looked like he could, you could put him in a Thor costume and he could say, you trespass here. I mean, he had that amazing look. He had a deep voice too, yeah. But he would do anything. He would do anything. And at that point in the show, like, you know, sometimes it felt like we were almost at war because there were people on the staff who just were like, why are we doing this fucking key screen behind the band or whatever weird thing?

33:14We were trying all this weird stuff. Trying all this stuff. And then there were people like Frank, like who would do anything and think of ideas. I got something for Alex Rocco. You're going to love it, whatever. I remember I'll just tell one quick Bill story. Like, so we won the Rangers won the Stanley cup in 1994. And so I had this idea that have like a dancing or running around Stanley cup, like a live Stanley is anthropomorphized. Yeah. Yeah. The Stanley cup has come to life and is dancing around in our studio. And of course, because I was a, you know, a big baby, I wanted the giant Stanley cup, but to have like tighty whiteys visible at the bottom.

33:54him so the legs are really cute but he's wearing tighty whiteys and it's kind of disturbing yeah so but i had this idea literally at like two in the morning and like brian leach from the rangers was going to be on the show the next day and so i call you know and the writers were all there laughing about this and i call like the wardrobe department like what the fuck are you talking about that's not gonna happen you can't do that yeah then i call bill toll he's like okay yeah Okay, so you want me to build a whole thing? Okay, so it's like eight levels. How many levels are there? And it's like three in the morning, and so he gets right to work, and then the only thing that he can't figure out is the Stanley Cup has this bowl, this big silver bowl on top.

34:34So Bill Tull calls the Rainbow Room, finds out that they have a silver bowl, goes up there. Which is, by the way, for anyone who doesn't know, one of the most swanky, incredible, elite places. rich people have their weddings in the rainbow room. So he goes to the rainbow room. He goes to the rainbow room. Hey, you guys got a silver bowl. I need it for a guy wearing underwear. A Stanley Cup thing. And so the guy, he gets the manager of the place. I'm like, well, we kind of need that bowl. Listen, what can I do? How can I get the silver bowl? And literally, the guy says, well, there's a kind of hot security guard downstairs.

35:14And if you can get me her number, set me up. so I can call her. I'll give you the bowl. So he goes down to the ground floor. Of course he does. Talks to the security guard lady. Says there's a guy in the Rainbow Room and he gets the number. And he goes back upstairs and comes back with the bowl. And this is like on no sleep. No sleep. Unbelievable. And the whole point is that like... That was the spirit of the show. That was the spirit of the show. And like Chilemi's here another long time. I call Chils the warrior. Yeah. because he's still, I shoot things now, I'm in different countries for this thing I'm doing for HBO Max.

35:51And who's there? Yeah, he's another one. He was there. Yeah, he gets it. But one of the things was really, I'll say this and then, because we have so much to talk about. I'm sorry. No, but we were always, no, no, sorry. We were always, this is just gonna have to be a seven hour episode, but this is what I remember about Bill Tull, was we needed some kind of crazy looking thing that basically was gonna look like an animal skeleton, but it had a clock for a head or something. And so at rehearsal, they reveal this thing and it looks kind of perfect. And I'm like, wow, how did you fake this animal skeleton?

36:23And Bill's like, oh yeah, well, I went upstate New York. I knew a guy who, he has a farm and he told me where all the animals are buried. So he went out at night with a shovel and dug around until he found a dead sheep and he dug up all the bones and reassembled it for the prop. Just beyond belief. I mean, literally, he's a ghoul in the night. You know, the giant moon behind him and a silhouette of him digging and then assembling bones. And then he just talks about this matter-of-factly on the best episode of Inside Conan. You should listen to it, Bill and his partner, John Rao. And, you know, the whole point is that, like, it was such a struggle that first year.

37:05It was the best job, most exciting job I ever had, but it was such a struggle. The network doubting us, and... You know what I remembered very clearly? if there are five things you need to have a successful television show, meaning the networks behind you, the critics like you, the numbers are strong, and then like a couple of things. We had none of those things. We had absolutely, I remembered sitting around going, let's see, what are the things you need? And then making a list of the five and going, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. All we had was a great show. We did have a great host. You know what was really nice?

37:40You know what was really nice was that we made it to that first summer and suddenly colleges got out. Yeah. And all of a sudden we had these audiences that were fine. And if we did something really funny, they would laugh, but it was always touch and go. And then suddenly I walked out, would have been June of 1994 after this slog, this crazy slog, which started the summer before and went all the way into the following. So it was a solid year of no sleeping, always worrying, people on the street telling me to drop dead, Oh my God. Those were network executives. I thought it was bad form. They were worried I didn't get the message.

38:22It'll make him stronger. It's okay. He's over there. He's in Central Park South. Get him. Thanks, Lauren. No problem. It'll toughen him up. Now about my money. My getaway car needs a better driver. But I remember that walking out one day to do the warmup because I would do the warmup before the show. And I came out to do the warmup and the minute the crowd saw me, they were, yes! Yeah. Whoa! And I was looking behind me like, is Jerry Seinfeld standing behind me? What's happening? This was, it was really spectacular. You know what else is interesting? All these people who were criticizing you, I realize now they were not the audience.

39:02But they were 11. Well, we did have Dave who came on to the show. Yeah, Dave came on the show. That was the biggest thing that ever happened. Yeah, that was February of 94. That was huge. Yes, and he said it backstage, and then he said it to your face, which is what really mattered on television, how great the show was. Yeah. And that changed a lot of, took a lot of pressure off the network. But the last thing I want to say about Bill, just in general. Bill Tull. Bill Tull. Just that, like, for people who work on a show like this or any movie set, you could have the opinion that, you know, my job's not that important.

39:35There's a finite amount of effect that I can have on a show, but like, it's not true. If people are supportive of the creative people at the top and they give off that vibe that they believe in you and that they'll do anything for you, like Bill and other people from that staff, it makes an enormous difference. Yeah, and I say, you know, and not to embarrass him because I know he's right outside this door because he still works with us, but, you know, Jason Shalemi, who you mentioned, is the same kind of person who started with us as an intern, But I swear to God, if Jason thought it was, if he sensed that it was important for us doing something comedically, whether it's now for the podcast or for a travel show I'm doing for HBO Max, whatever, and it involved him getting shot at.

40:20It's just Max now. Yeah. Oh, is it? Okay, whatever. I like to throw the HBO in to let people know. That it's actually quality. It's a, it's a. That it's not pornography. Yeah. When you just say Max, people think, oh, well, it's people fucking, I guess. So I can whack off to this? Yeah. I've never been able to walk off the corner. This is exciting. He's really evolved, like they say. His porn is so creative. All the furniture in the room is talking too. The guy and the girl are going at it and then the couch is like, yeah, what a schlong. Quiet couchy, I'm losing my concentration. I like that porn with anthropomorphic props.

41:02Wow, he's really giving it to her. Shut up, alarm clock. The pizza's watching. The pizza's rubbing its pepperoni nipples. Oh, I love it. New meaning to the word food porn. Yeah, exactly. But no, if Jason thought it was important, and you know, I was just with him, we were shooting in South America, and he's like, I think if he thought this was important to me or somehow important to the comedy, but it involved him running across a firing line where actual ammunition's being shot, he would do it. Which is my point is that he's stupid. No, my point is that it's he makes you like this. The last day I was on the show, I had to give a speech, which was painful as can be.

41:43So I love the show so much. And I remember saying I thanked everybody. And I said, there are people in this room who have said Conan and I have inspired them to do great work. And I just wanted to tell everybody you you inspired us. And that's really true. I like Jason, a guy. So many people who they have your back. and it makes all the difference in the world. And I do think in light of, it's a great message too, that people, you know, in the light of all these strikes and everything and people say, well, it just comes down to commerce and money and yes, is money part of it? Of course it is. But when you see the level of, when people get excited creatively and then other people around them, whether it's people working cameras, pulling cables, but they're excited too and they're kind of going the extra mile to make it happen.

42:35Makes such a difference. And then it becomes kind of like a religious experience in a weird way. It becomes spiritual and you're making something and then you get the money. And you don't share it with anybody. Maybe.

42:54He's, and Jason, you know, now you're making me think about Jason's predecessor, Mr. Jordan Slansky. Yep. who I always credit, Triumph Remotes wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Jordan. Because the first time we did one, we were never gonna get it. Let me back it up just a little before, which is Triumph comes out of this sketch you're doing on the show. And you come in with this dog whose talent is, he's an insult comic. And then I think what we have to do, which I have to give you credit for, two things. The choice of the puppet is exceptional. and like I say, the fact that the puppets has kind of a realistic face, but the eyes are dead.

43:36And so he says these jokes and stares and I think, not unlike why I often found Norm MacDonald so funny, is Norm could make his eyes go dead and just kind of stare at you after he said a joke. And I do think that Triumph has that, I look into those puppet eyes and I can watch it forever. I know. But the other thing is the voice because anybody else doing it who had that idea, oh yeah, it's a dog who's an insult comic, would have done Borscht Belt. Hey you over there, what are you, sock? You know, Armenia, hey, Armenia, is that even a country? Sounds like a tiny diarrhea, you know? What? That's a good one.

44:13No, don't write it down. Yeah, it's really good. Armenia, diarrhea. Side of. Yeah, but anyway, what I'm saying is that's what anybody else would have done. Robert is the only person I know who would have done, I think it's an old Russian Jewish woman. Am I correct? I had grandparents that were first generation immigrants, you know, who, who escaped Russia during, and they actually emigrated to China first. They'd be so proud of what you've done. We must escape persecution. So that, so Robert can turn us into a - may be able to watch to witness a realistic looking puppet have sex with a live animal on television and she's like, oh yes what is this television?

45:02well it's going to be a thing starting with Milton Byrne they're trying to kill us but if we can escape then one maybe one of our grandchildren will contribute will turn us into a horny puppet I have to credit my wife. So because she's the one who, so I found triumph on this rack of whimsical puppets that were when we were shooting, when we were newlyweds and we were hunting for furniture at a country store and we saw this and the puppet was so funny to me. These dog puppets and there was a sheep and a cat. So I immediately put on one of the dog puppets, sniffed her ass with it in the room, in the furniture store.

45:46And of course she found it funny because she's the perfect woman for me. And then she surprised me in February, two months later after we were married, with seven of these puppets. And that's what gave me the idea for this Westminster thing. And Dave was having Westminster dogs run up and down the aisles of the Ed Sullivan Theater. Very Dave, very found humor. And I was like, so - Our version of that. Our version is make it up. Yep. Yeah, so that's - Well, so I remember that. And then I remember early on, before there were remotes, we'd have guests on and triumph would roast them yes we would always catharsis for the audience yeah and and and so triumph would be over behind this little stand and then and and i would have interviewed the guest already and then they go after the guest and i'll never forget guests would say yes to it not knowing what it was simon cowell is on it's the height of uh the first couple of years of america maybe the first year of american he was like the biggest thing he was He was huge.

46:45And he comes on the show and we said, do you mind? And you went, oh no, you know, please, whatever it is you chaps do, go ahead. I'll just be here with my too tight t-shirt. And so you're ripping into him and he's watching. And then when it's over, I say, we'll take a break. We'll be right back. And he turns to me and he's covered in sweat. He was covered in sweat and he said, that was rough. Like a guy who had just been beaten with a stick. So funny. And then later I saw him afterward and I was like, was that okay and he he had come to understand by then he was like no this is uh this would be good for me in some way would be able to show that i can laugh at myself and blood came out of his tear with blood in it but then you go to do a remote westminster dog show and of course i think chilemi goes with you no it was that the first one was jordan was jordan and we couldn't get in first because apparently Andy had done something at Westminster that they didn't like so they weren't going to let us in and I was like okay I guess we'll never do it and if I'd never done it maybe I would have never done a remote because that was the obvious one to do Sweeney suggested why don't you go to Westminster and hit on these dogs yeah and uh real real dogs yeah because I've been well I've been sort of doing it on the show yeah but here's all these dogs and I loved it but so then Jordan like creates this scam like we gave us he printed out all these fake NBC passes He broke the law.

48:10He broke the law and he figured out a side entrance. And he said, it's not technically it's not technically deception because we actually are NBC employees. You know, it's very Jordan rationalization. Yes. Yes. But we got in and it's all because of him that these remotes exist. We tip our cap now to a man I professionally loathe. Yes. I've made a career, a fifth career, out of being irritated by Jordan Schlansky. But no, in real life, he saved the day. And then, you know, remotes come fast and furious, and then the iconic, crazy Star Wars remote, where there's not, it was all still, again, before the internet, like things couldn't go viral.

48:51But I remember the night we played that, the audience screaming and going wild and thinking, there's only some way this can be replayed for everybody throughout all time and fortunately now there is no but actually it was the first thing on the show that did because before youtube there was something called iFilm Blair will know this because he's a pathetic nerd right yes that's true okay that is why everybody even knew it back then it was the first thing on the show that that was like put on iFilm or whatever it was called and um it was the happiest experience I ever had doing triumph because everybody was like i don't really like making people feel bad i know it's good television sometimes especially if it's like a person nobody likes but it's so much more fun these guys were fans of you yeah and they knew what triumph was it was like they wanted to meet triumph and it was like when i met don rickle what makes it so nice is that because i'm the same way if i think i've hurt someone's feelings yeah i don't sleep for like two days if i think they really got, you know, and so I'm just saying that to appear nice.

49:57You must never sleep. I sleep like a baby. No, you know how he solved that? It was like an aversion therapy. He decided to be mean to everybody. And that way he got numb to it. Yeah, yeah. My son, I'm just, everybody. And so, but I think the magic of that was all the people in line who you're making fun of for being, never seeing a woman or, you know, Which button do you push to have your mother come pick you up? Whatever. All of those. They're all, all loving it. And that's the key. And they're just delighted. And now they're part of history. They're like the funniest straight men that you could ask for.

50:36And the fact that they're enjoying it just made it like just a mutual pooper and poopy. United as one.

50:49It's just beautiful. It's a beautiful thing. when Cooper and Pooey come together. There are so many, you know. Beautiful. I mean, this is the thing where it gets tricky because I could reminisce with you about all of this for maybe 15 hours and we would only scratch the surface. But something, I just want to make sure that I get in here, that I state that you've gone on. You know, we worked together all those years and then we've continued to work together. We come back together, we work, we just did. I mean, one of the highlights of my recent life was you and I wrote Hans and Franz musical together with Dana Carvey and Kevin Nealon.

51:27And then it just got lost to time because it was never made. And of course, foolishly, we wrote it so that Schwarzenegger, rather than being a cameo, is in nine tenths of the movie. It was the best. It was nice to see that come around. And you've been doing all this amazing work in comedy for all these years but i i have to celebrate that leo you wrote this uh movie leo and it's an adam sandler animated film and i saw it the other night and i my i was completely blown away it is obviously funny which i knew it would be but it's also so sweet and so nuanced and that's and has a great message and i thought well this is a classic and then uh i think yesterday Yesterday I was told that it's the biggest animated hit already that Netflix has ever had.

52:19Like it's a complete smash. And I was practically crying. I'm so happy for you and for Adam. I wrote both of you guys. Adam's lawyer got it. Sandy Werner got it. I don't know. I think we got a red line this thing. Let me give it a look to the lawyers.

52:44he was really funny because i called him he ended up calling me after i wrote it no no not but adam after i told him i texted him i said that robert i'm so happy for robert i'm so happy for you it's so well done and he calls me up and he was like asking me about how my kids are doing stuff like that and then he was doing this whole riff because my son is very gifted at computers and right he loves computer engineering so he's looking at a lot of engineering schools and a lot of like super scientific schools. And Adam was like saying, Connie, I'll write him a letter. Those people love me. And I went as a joke.

53:15And I was like, it's okay, Adam. He's like, it's already done. I took care of it, buddy. I'm gonna send it to every engineering school. And I'm saying, no Adam. Proemptively. No. No Adam. He's like, these are my people. He was, I was crying. I was laughing so hard. Don't worry, Coney. He's gonna be great. Oh, he's the best. Yeah, he's the best. Goddamn. I was, you know, it was so funny because he does, the voice he does in this for Leo is so unique. It's kind of Bernie. Yeah. Yes. It's Bernie Brillstein, the famous manager that we all knew and worked with. What I do know is people don't understand that as an animation, the voice is everything.

53:56Like the voice is more important than the actual animation because it's the soul of who the person is, I think, in a lot of ways. And that voice that he does is so unique and it really works beautifully. Yeah, it's like cranky and warm at the same time. Yeah.

54:20It's funny because like when I had written it and we were about to do a table read and I had told him a couple of days early, I kind of seen like a Peter Falk kind of thing. and then like right before the read through he says hey buddy i think i i want to do bernie i was like oh okay go go for it and then he killed it with the bernie and it was just a great instinct it's very funny because bernie i taught him years ago he never fucking know when we fucking when we cast alf remember remember during look well so bernie was an executive producer of look well because conan was with brilstein and let me back up because i just Sometimes we go fast and I want to bring people up to speed.

55:02But Robert came to me once when we were at SNL and he said, because we both love the 60s series Batman. Adam West. And he said to me, you know, I have this idea. We've got to do something with Adam West. And we started talking about it and he was saying like, you know, maybe he's an out of work actor, but he solves crimes. Still thinks he can solve crimes. But because he made these shows, he thinks he can solve crimes. So you and I sat down and pretty quickly wrote this script. Yes. And we called the guy Ty Lookwell. And that was your name. Yeah, it was great. And then we go on this quest to get Adam West to do it.

55:33And he does it. We make it. And there's a lot of, that's a whole saga in and of itself. Because no one wanted us to make it. The network. But then finally. Tartikoff got it. But Brandon Tartikoff said, I get it. But then he left immediately. So anyway. In Lauren's getaway. Anyway. And so we make this pilot and we deliver it to the network. And you and I were so excited. Because this is, we're on SNL. This is a bunch of years before late night. We really think this is our ticket to the top. We love it. We think it's really ahead of its time. It's so cool. And Bernie, because you can do the voice, but I'll never forget this.

56:05So we're over at Bernie Brillstein's company. He's this big guy. Looks like he's a Jewish Santa Claus. Yes. And he's - Santa Claus, cowardly lion. Yeah, Santa Claus, cowardly lion. He wears all black because he thinks it's slimming. Slimming. It's fucking slimming. So anyway, we're in his office and he's telling us this thing is going to go through the roof. Adam is going to test through that. It's going to be huge. It's going to be big. It's going to be. And he's in the midst of this long rant about how he knows show business. He knows TV. And this thing's going to go all the way. And you guys have to start figuring out now which mansions you want to live in in Beverly Hills.

56:40He's going on and on and on. When his assistant says a phone call from the network, Bernie goes, put it through. Rick Ludwin. So they put it through. And all we can hear is Bernie's side of it. So Robert and I are just flying high and he gets on the phone. And the first thing he goes, what? What? the fuck yeah and then and then he starts sabotaging this is the best because he also managed lorne michaels yeah and lorne michaels had two projects look well because he was you know and he also had a jack handy pilot based on tunes is the cat it was a collection of jack handy sketches and tunes was the glue to it and so rick ludwin is telling bernie that um yeah yeah Yeah, look well, didn't test terrific with our crew.

57:25That's fucking insane. Adam, this is a fucking genius fucking script. And then what do you fucking say? Tonsus. Yeah, yeah, we're thinking of, Tonsus might make it. Tonsus might make the September schedule. Are you fucking kidding me? That thing is going to fucking tank. You're going to put that thing on? And that's his client too. That's also his client. That's also his client. But Bernie didn't have, but Burlestein Gray wasn't producing Toonce. Well, it doesn't matter. No, it mattered to Bernie. Lawrence's big meal ticket. And he's like, Long can't find his ass with three hands. And it's just, but anyway, the point is you and I are sitting there, these kids.

58:06And all we hear is, What? And then he said, and the first thing he said was, it's the first thing you screened after lunch. People are digesting. I'll never forget sitting there listening to that. Fucking Sue Mangers told me this 45 years ago. You fucking idiots have no fucking clue. So we, I saw you today for the first time in person since Leo came out and I felt emotional because I'm so happy for you. You're my friend, but also I was saying you and I have collaborated on so much stuff and there's a lot of noise out there and I'm very proud of the stuff we've worked on together. but I saw this thing and I thought, oh, this is going to be a movie that kids are watching and with their parents, because it's really funny.

58:55They're going to be watching it like 50 years from now. I don't know how. They'll be putting drops in their eyes and watching it. But no, it's really, I think it's lasting. I think it's a classic. That's amazing. And I was just delighted, just really delighted for you because Jesus, you know you deserve it. Thank you. It feels like the first thing I've ever done that everyone agreed on at the same time. Like, you know, our show was amazing and we loved it more than anything. And there was an audience that got it. And I've had, you know, and then little segments that I've done, like the cartoons on SNL.

59:36But any independent project that I've done, even the ones that were successful, like the Zohan or Hotel Transylvania, it wasn't a critical success. This is like everything. Everything's coming together. Yeah, it's never happened to me in my whole career. So it's like, it's just weird. But I love it and I'm very excited. And yeah, I'm very happy. And it was, I really stuck my, I know. You've been working on this for four years. You've been telling me about it. And I've been saying enough with the talking. Where is it? I know, it was maddening. And I would like go on Zoom meetings, like, you know, because like first you animate it to like black and white drawings.

1:00:15Animatics. animatics and we tested it and it did great and it's like great now make it do the whole thing over and that was like the creative process working with board artists now you're converting the whole thing to 3d and it's almost like okay we just want it to be as good as the animatic now like we've made most of the creative decisions and it's just so technical and like sometimes there'd be zoom meetings where my other two directors like my notes were usually about acting and they'd be like leo's tail it has a little bump it's off model and shit like that i would literally just to be sane i would like mute myself on the zoom and start making animal noises just like what do you think cow and i would send it to friends with like they would hear the meeting in the background the cow doesn't like the idea sorry you know we we uh the other thing i should point out is you write the the music in this there's a lot of there's a lot of there's a lot of really great songs in it oh that's nice and um but it's it was fun for me because you and i one thing we always had in common was we always wanted sketches to turn into songs i know just and so we we thought sketches should have a theme song so when we were working on mr short-term memory that was like the first we wanted it to have a song yeah and lauren was like can't it just be because don pardo for years would just be on now another episode of short term memory man yeah and we literally said can't it just be an hour and we were like no it has to be and and oden kirk and and and uh greg daniels were working on this too but we wanted we were like no no it has to be a song mr short term memory yes he shouldn't have sat under that pear tree yes and it's sitting under a pear tree and a pear drops and hits him on the head now he has no memory he'll frustrate you so but he'll never know because he's mr it was one of those things it was like the first one yeah i i love the elegance of that first line and but then that became like a a plague on the show like everybody started putting jingles at the top of every yes every character everything had to have a jingling had a jingle but yes um actually i i would have to the the biggest thrill of this movie on some level is just the balls to write songs and music like i was so scared to do it on one hand but then i like i knew a composer this brilliant composer david yasbeck i can't even play a musical instrument i just sang these into garage band and like and then i sent them to him and i was like do these suck and he was like no they don't suck and i was like oh god the song at the end with all the children saying how old they are when i was 10 yeah that's beautiful into the next age thank you amazing yeah that's that's my favorite and um yeah i love it because it's funny it starts out really funny because the premise is like probably an old peanuts premise like a kid thinking oh back when i was seven things were you have no idea how what you what you're looking right but um but i just love like the word the lyrics get are very silly at first like you know we all get left milk for santa claus my mom was not in menopause and that kind of thing and it's all very like heartfelt and they're in a spotlight.

1:03:27And then it turns at one point, one girl's reminiscing about her grandfather and my gerbils are still alive. It's still kind of funny. And then another kid says, I didn't care that people died, which is something that's based on something I experienced with my son, Rowe, who's also in the movie. He plays the whatever kid, the allergy kid. Oh God. The drone kid. But anyway. That's great. I love the drone. Oh, the drone's amazing. When he goes full Bridget Jones and starts eating the chocolate ice cream. I love that. Thank you. But so Rowie, when my dad passed away, my kids used to laugh at the idea of death.

1:04:07I don't know if you have a similar, but my kids - I still do. Well, you sort of get over the shock and then it's like, realize how funny it is. After your own parents die. No, so Rowie, they would like death, man. What is that all about? and they'd giggle about how weird it is when they were like four and then like my dad passed away when they were eight and he had a long illness and a beautiful long life so the part of me was relieved but the thing that really made me cry was like hearing broey experience it and cry he was crying really hard i was with my mom and so i spoke to him on the phone and i realized that not only is he crying because he adored his grandfather but because he's taking in this right reality so that part gets me every time you know that's when that's when i get emotional when i hear that song well it's a uh absolutely beautiful movie it's nice when it all comes together i finally i'm looking at this leo has had this is crazy 34.6 million views in its first six days i don't know what that means but it sounds like a lot that's the biggest debut ever for a netflix animated film That's nice.

1:05:18So that's, I mean, as long as you have a big piece of the merch, you're okay. Oops. Somehow I do. Lorne, somewhere in Maine. Somewhere in Maine. A blueberry farm just got a little bigger. He has a blueberry farm, right? Yeah, he has a massive blueberry farm. You know the - And also, this is like, we have to do it because we all do Lorne voices and make Lorne jokes, but you and I would be completely unknown to everybody if it weren't for Lorne Michaels. Oh, without a doubt. We love him to death. We love him to death. But we love doing his voice. We love doing his voice. The blueberries. And then he has a giant blueberry farm in Maine.

1:05:57Wait a minute, so it's like, you know, the blueberries, we don't sell the blueberries because they're ripe. We sell them because it's 1130 on Saturday night.

1:06:15Well, Robert, I should probably wrap this up, but there's got to be a part two at some point. But thank you for doing this. I love you. You changed my life. You're the best. You keep changing it, ruining it, but also making it better. Then changing it back. Yep. Fixing, smashing, and then making it. Enjoy. I want you to be happy. You should be. I can't believe you could even say that you're still nervous. You are. I'm not nervous. But it's like I'm so happy for you because I think it's, can I take two seconds to just remember? Okay. So I remember like that summer. conan would do these uh practice shows 1993 i'm talking again and like dino like a couple of writers would be out there and there's no audience and conan would just be so fucking funny just relaxed on stage and there was a part of me that was like why do we have to have an audience why do we even have to have an audience it's just gonna get in the way and you know he figured it out and obviously had an amazing career on late night television but this show is everything that you are.

1:07:13It's so amazing. We get to see how smart you are and thoughtful and spontaneously funny. And I'm over the moon for you. You have this and how popular it is. I know you're happy. No, no, I am. I'm very blessed. Anyway, love you. Everyone has already seen Leo twice by these metrics, but go, everyone go see it nine times and congratulations. Thank you. Mazel. Mazel. Mazel. I'm filled with Mazel.

1:08:09our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering by Eduardo Perez. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.