Sir Paul McCartney

27:19McCartney. Clearing the throat, I think, more than anything else. I love this photo of such a great shot, John, George. And this is, I think I recognize this, it's from a very famous picture that you guys took outside the Olympia, I think theater, bright blue bricks. And it's a very iconic shot of you guys, but I think you grabbed, this is probably in between takes with the photographer and I think you might've grabbed this shot. And you can see, again, this is you guys at work. This is in between, you know, taking a photo session. And this isn't the, hey, we're the Beatles. It's guys working.

28:07Yeah. And I mean, you know, seeing them after all these years, what good looking boys. Yeah. Come on. Yeah. Good looking. You do say in the book you talk about how we were all beautiful in our when we were young and I beg to differ I've got some photos. I'll show you when I was 20. Oh, it's a good. It's not so good But you guys obviously looked spectacular what I love another aspect of your perspective here is the world is looking at the Beatles at this point but you're you guys are looking back and this is a great shot of what it was like to be you and the other guys and actually the gentleman in the hat very famous photographer who took a lot of great snaps of you guys is that yeah is it dejo dezo hoffman dezo hoffman yeah who was uh slovak um yeah he became a good friend you know so uh but he would get out with all the other photographers and snap us but yeah we saw this a lot and so I thought well yeah I'll take a picture of them it looks so good you know they're all lined up so yeah but this for this was a daily occurrence yeah you'd get used to this very quickly but it's fascinating to when you're being photographed to turn the tables and say I can do this to you yeah which is really fun and you see the look on their faces they quite liked it it's like you know um this next one might be one of my favorite photos because of its honesty and again i think only you could get this is john and again biting he's doing that thing again yeah and anxiety i see vulnerability and i see some anxiety it's uh i could be reading into it but that's what it feels like to me I don't know about the anxiety, but vulnerability is very true.

30:10And at this time, I wouldn't really know that. Later, when I thought as an adult about John's upbringing, he had a really tragic life, really. Because, you know, as a kid, his mother was decreed to not be good enough to bring him up. Julia, his mom, who we would visit, and he loved her, and wrote a beautiful song about her. But she had to give him up. The father, Alf, had left the home when John was three. So that's not too wonderful. And so John grew up with these sort of little minor tragedies throughout his life. he was taken in by his aunt Mimi and was brought up by her but one night mum, Julia, was visiting them come to see her son and on the way home she got run over got killed by apparently an off-duty cop who maybe was a bit inebriated it never came out of course they cover it up but so John was having that taking off his mum, his mum dies you know so it made me realize why he had that vulnerability I always admired the way he dealt with it because I'm not sure I would deal that well with the stuff he went through.

31:44Also you have it's him with his glasses on, these are very thick glasses and that was something that was kind of verboten is shots of John with his glasses on when the photographer's around but it's you so he can have his glasses. Yeah, that's right. It's really sweet. But he was very short-sighted, as you can see, with the glasses. Right. Oh, I'm sorry, I advanced. That's okay, we can go on. If you can just spoil my story, it's okay. It's your show. That was the idea. Please, Paul. Please, Paul, there's no time for your story. Nobody wants to hear you talk about John. Look what I can do. He's gone back.

32:25I did that. Wow. Did you have more? Lots. But I'm not telling you now. That's it. All right, screw it. Okay, I'll tell you one. Go back. Go back. You're making a fool out of me. Well, it's easy.

32:55okay well so john was like really short-sighted and he used to come down from his house which was mile or two away from where i lived and we would write songs and and have a little session and this occasion it was Christmas and then John after we finished he would walk back up in the dark to his place I knew the route he took and it was a place called Booker Avenue and on the corner was this little kind of little posh bungalow so he walks home and then he we talked in the next day he said he said you know that the house on the corner Booker Avenue so I went past it said those people are crazy i said why what do you mean he said well they were out you know what time was we finished midnight he said they were out on the veranda on the porch playing cards at midnight i said i don't get it so i went up and looked it was it was the manger it was the baby jesus

34:00he wasn't going to put his glasses on And a baby won all the money. All right, now we talk about, again, you've got an unguarded Ringo, and again, we're seeing this backstage life. A little pensive, waiting, and this is you, a technique which I think you really liked, which is you could surprise people, you could catch them if you shot into a mirror. Early paparazzi. So it's your fault, is it? No, you're right. You know, it's just I knew Ringo was just being natural. He was acting naturally.

34:40And so, yeah, I knew I could get that shot without him looking over and going, oh, you know. So, yeah, there was a lot of this backstage. And again, the light was quite nice, you know, so it was a good shot to try and take. This one is kind of spectacular to me because there's a flurry of activity, And it's a great shot to me because it feels like John is almost pulled into himself. Things are heating up. It's getting crazier and crazier. And he seems like he's just trying to be zen. Yeah. I think you had to be, you know, because there was a lot of craziness going on. And you had to take that moment for yourself.

35:21The good thing was he knew no one would be worried. It's not like anyone would say, come on, John, lively up. you know he could just knew he could just sit there and as I say I always admired that about John um you know now I realize I was like a big fan of John's we all were actually in the group he was like a very cool guy you know very witty very funny but also very deep um and real so These photos show that from an early age We have one you are underrepresented obviously because you're taking the photos but someone took this photo with your camera and I love it. It's backstage and I Never looked that good But I think we know that but I also love This almost feels Victorian that wallpaper that light switch.

36:21Yeah, this is you know, a different, it's show business from a different era. You guys were changing all the rules, but you're still in those dressing rooms. Yeah, that's right. I always think we were on the cusp because often we'd play on a bill and there would be people from the previous era. And we were like the rock group. This is the modern thing, you know. But there were plenty of like jugglers and strange people. So yeah, we were in that world, which I liked. I liked coming out of that and sort of emerging. I mean, now, you know, you go to a show and it's all rock and roll. You know, it was a rock and roll show.

37:08But then you got all sorts of different acts. So yeah, so it was interesting. It made it interesting for us. if you wanted to chat to some of these people, you know, and see what life was like for them. What's funny, you came out of that, it really was the English music hall tradition, which I think influenced the music too. You guys came from that world, which had been around since the turn of the century. Yeah, and we'd grown up with that. And then suddenly rock and roll hit, and we were now going to take it further in a different direction. but yeah we'd grown up with that my dad used to actually operate the limelight the spotlight at a theater in liverpool called the hippodrome and um it was a limelight which not many people know was a piece of lime that you lit and it burned phosphorescent and then you that went through a lens and became the limelight beam i had no i've never heard that before i know it's a sort of educational show this

38:23i love that you assumed that i didn't know anything no so he was in that world you know he was in that world and um so it would went right back to all the old musical acts, you know. And so he knew a lot of the songs. And he would go home to his sisters in the interval, the two houses, he'd go home. And he'd sing the songs to them, they'd remember them. So that's what all come out of the family sing songs. And also, he would take home programs for the event that people had left, and he would take them home. and the girls would iron them, make them new again, and he'd take them back and flog them.

39:10A sense of enterprise. No, yeah. But it was that world. Like you're saying, it was a whole different world. That's what I, when you arrived backstage and I saw you go into your dressing room and I think, you know, some things just don't change. Here you are, another dressing room, we're putting on a show, it's exhilarating still to be part of that tradition. Yeah, I feel very lucky with that, you know, because so many of your mates at school went on and did uninspiring things. Yep. Yeah, all right. So, you know, you felt very lucky. It must be tough when you show up at a high school reunion. I think I did pretty well.

39:55I've got a nice hardware store. I think I did as well as it. Oh, Jesus! It's McCartney. Yeah. Yeah. We have a picture here I adore. Yeah, this is John wearing many hats. I mean, sorry, George. I get them all confused. You're the drummer, right? But I love, it's that sense of comedy too, of don't play the joke. You know, there is nothing funny happening here, which is the funniest way to be. I'm gonna wear these two hats and I'm gonna give you the most serious look in the world. Yeah, I know George is very good at that Yeah Yeah, you know he had a good dead plant sense of humor And these hats were just lying around They're probably the dancers Hats looks like the kind of thing to dancers would get a cane one of those hats and a scanty costume and Do all sorts of dancing.

40:56Yeah So he picked up the hats. To that point of that's the show business you're in. There's some dancers here. We're going to take these hats and goof around. Yeah. This looks like, I believe you're at a recording studio. I believe it's in Paris. Yeah. And this looks like a Chet Baker album cover. It's absolutely, it's a stunning photograph. You guys are ushering in a whole new era of music, but you're still working alongside these other guys. Yeah. It's funny. I never knew who these guys were. I just it was I think it was a rehearsal hall and I never knew I just liked that looked so cool You know, I just took the picture But I never knew till very recently Who they were or what was going on and?

41:40It turns out Elvis Costello Texted me just the other day and he said he's got amazing text from a friend of his was called Ray. And Ray said, I've got the book, and on page 161, there's this photo of my dad playing guitar. What? Ah. He said, my heart skipped a beat. So now we know who that was. That was Ray's dad.

42:15Now things really pick up. This is the famous flight, Pan Am 101 you are going to New York City and You don't know what you're gonna find when you get to New York City, you know You have a you're on the charts a number one hit. You're gonna do the Sullivan show We all know what happens Hmm, but you guys on the way over you don't know America's the big prize The country's in mourning after JFK's assassination, which is two months earlier. What are you gonna encounter? Is it gonna work? yeah exactly you know so we were very excited just to be on a plane to new york you know that's like enough but um what happened was the pilots always radio ahead to idle wild as it was then right before his name kennedy um and so the word got back to us that's it there's a big crowd at the airport yeah oh wow getting exciting um so yeah we kind of half knew what to expect but then it was a really big crowd yeah and so um yeah we were just bowled over yeah um it was america where all the music that we loved came from um so we were just happy to be there and then with a big crowd of admirers screaming girls.

43:36It was great. And then what was nice after that, immediately we did a press conference at the airport. And it was like, hey, Peter, Peter, and all that again. But we knew that whatever they laid on us, if there was any sort of insult, we knew we could come back with, well, we're number one in your country. Yeah. Boom. Yeah. Gotcha. That's called a mic drop. Yeah. This is what you encounter when you get there. And I love this photo you took. We've all seen, of course, the other side of it. But this is what you guys saw outside the plaza, which is absolutely amazing. And again, probably you would have seen this in Europe, but to realize that this isn't happening in New York City has got to just be an incredible moment.

44:27It was great. Well, the whole thing, too, the fans, at the police, the policemen. And, you know, when you see some other photos, they've got the old-fashioned police uniform with the big buttons. And there were mounted police, too. So it was very exciting for us, just in a car. It was like being in a movie. Because every time I drive down Fifth Avenue, I tell everyone that story.

44:58It's funny because you are tourists think about it. Yeah, I think George had been to New York once But the rest of you are tourists and this is your first view of New York City Mm-hmm. Not many people encounter this when they show up in New York for the first. That's not what it's always like

45:17Well, of course I do but You know I'm me this I love Columbus Circle I was there this morning and I knew I'd be talking to you and I've read the book 50 times uh because I adore it I love how different it is now and I can see that you're starting to take pictures of signage you're taking a lot of sort of uh these almost still lifes in it it's a different idea now that you're playing with which is this is America yeah I mean you know you're just taking photos so you're not necessarily taking portraits you're just taking anything appeals to you. So to me, that's America. And actually on that little needle that's on the thing, it's a weather thing, and it's always telling the temperature.

46:03And you can see there's one little bit that's worn away. So that must be like the most popular temperature. It was the number one temperature in the country. I just like the picture, you know, so I took it. You guys, this is a great shot of the amazing Ronnie Spector of the Ronettes. It reminded me of something I don't think can be stressed enough is what you guys did when you landed is you completely gave it up for girl groups. And you were a group that played a lot of songs by girl groups and promoted them. And they were songs that you loved. Ringo would sing boys, didn't even change the gender.

46:44It was just, We're gonna sing please mr. Postman baby. It's you And that was I think at the time unusual when everyone was asking you guys What do you love and you said we love these girl groups? Yeah mostly black American music really except for you know if I feel like Elvis and Carl Perkins and things So yeah, we love these girl groups and as you say Ringo sang boys, we never thought you know, that's strange It just was a great song. So we just liked how it sounded. I don't think we really worried about what the lyrics said. And see, it was great for us to meet Ronnie, you know. Yeah. Wow. All your heroes are turning up and they want to meet you guys.

47:34Yeah. It's true. This one is also from inside. It's a double exposure of John. I was struck with you guys were slobs

47:47Yeah, I'm sorry Yeah, but we you know we got time off

47:55It'd be unusual if it wasn't sloped this is yeah

48:03This is a shot we've seen so many shots from different angles of the Sullivan set But this is what struck me Look at how small the riser is for Ringo's drum kit. I know I can't believe and as a guy who I started out as a bad drummer before I moved on to bad guitar and then bad comedy what I What struck me about this is guitars. I mean drums move when you hit them. Yeah, it's a miracle. He didn't fall off. I know That's he's Ringo Ringo didn't fall off. He didn't fall off No, but I agree. I mean, how did he get up there? Yeah. It's like, did he jump? He was lifted. I don't know. It's all this raised so many questions for me.

48:50But it does make me in retrospect terrified for him on that Sullivan appearance that he the drums didn't just fall off in the middle of the first song. He used to have a hard job with all that stuff. We played in Washington. Yeah. And for the first time ever, they said, you're going to play in the round. We didn't even know what they were talking about. But there was like a little round stage in the middle of the room. You know, I now know it's to get more people in. Yes. That's why they were doing it. But they said, well, you'll have to play to these people. Then you'll have to turn around and play to those people then those people So we just about managed it.

49:33We'd sort of move our amps and so Ringo had to move his whole drum kit As his riser didn't move there's footage of this and it's Ridiculous because you're the biggest act in the history of the world and in between songs Ringo's jumping down And it's like he's moving somebody into their dorm room, you know It's ridiculous. I know. And there's no one running out and doing it for him, and he's pushing and shoving, and you guys are like, come on, Ringo, let's go. Well, he did it. Yeah, he did it. He did what you had to do. He did it. This photo you took out the window, it is miraculous, I think. It's such an angelic shot of this.

50:17Yeah, I love this picture. Her looking in at you and you looking out. Yeah. And she's ethereal, you know? she's really she really is yeah she's uh so serene and you know normally we'd see people like this and they'd be sort of shouting or screaming or waving but she's just got this very cool look yeah it's like um so you you want to paint a portrait she's got the head scarf and i wish i It's a newer story. Yeah, it's really nice. Who knows, you know, maybe one of these days someone will say, that was my auntie. It'll be Elvis Costello that gets in touch with you. I know her too. He's such a liar, that guy.

51:08He texts me all the time too, Paul. I don't believe a word of it, none of it. After Sullivan, as you said, you guys go down to Washington, D.C. and I love this photo because so much of your art so much of your music is about working people, you know, and Barbers Eleanor Rigby firemen nurses poppy on a tray you have this way and I love this photo because You're looking out the window you're at the eye of this hurricane and you see this man And you take this photo and you seem drawn to people that are out there doing their job and he's anonymous us yeah because um that's my world you know growing up in liverpool these are the people you knew and you hung up with also i mean i could have just been in liverpool i could have just been to the right clearing up after him you know these that could be my own call so i i it isn't but um it's Ray's uncle no no but you know I just I'm drawn to people's working people's faces they just look good and also the other thing I'm drawn to them for people tend to think working-class people are a bit stupid mm-hmm yeah he's look at the job he's got he's been stupid but some of them you know if you know them and you kind of you visit their houses or like my uncles and aunties they can be really clever people and i love that yeah i mean i i had a an uncle who was really all right you know very hard i just got liverpool you know talk like that like you know um so you would have thought well he's a bit thick um i wouldn't people might have thought Yes, yes.

53:00Well, he was great. And I would bring homework home from school. And he was the one in the family who would know the Shakespeare and the epic poems. He'd been taught it and he'd remember it all. So these hidden depths are what I love about working people. Never underestimate them.

53:33Well, we move on. This is, we're now getting to Miami. You land in Miami. And John once had a quote. He said that the early Beatles touring days were like a Fellini film, Satyricon, just madness. And here you really see it because get this book and you look up close. There are beauty queens. Yeah. There are, I mean, all kinds of just insanity. There are all these people there, and you're thinking, why are these people here? Yeah. And, you know. What about the guy or girl in the hat there with the sort of leopard skin thing? Oh, check this out. I saw the same thing, and I wanted to punch in on this.

54:16Punch in. Look who's greeting you, holding, I don't know if you can see this, holding a chimpanzee.

54:28You know... Why? Well, you know, I think we appeal to everyone. Even monkeys. I just love this moment. I know, isn't that wild? And I mean, on the day, I just took the picture, but I couldn't ever see that detail until the book. God bless. I saw that and I thought this photograph captures, yes, this is Beatlemania. And then we had to call the monkey to clear the photo, which did not go well. This is a fascinating photo because you are zeroed in on the fact that this is not something you saw in England. You didn't see it in Liverpool. You didn't see it in London. This was new to you. Yeah, no, this is when we arrived in Miami, and we had a police escort.

55:27And this guy on the motorcycle just pulled up right beside us. And I had my camera, so I just snapped this picture of him. Because I was so amazed at seeing, like, a gun, an ammo. Because in England, we were very lucky. The cops don't have guns. Yeah. So this was like... Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Well, we are very lucky in that respect, you know. Yeah, our laws never included the Second Amendment. But, yeah, so I was fascinated by this guy, you know, and the gun and everything. And I didn't want his head. I just wanted that bit, you know, just to remind myself of what America was like. This is, I'll just love, there's a girl here in the center, and to me that says it all.

56:25I've never made anyone that happy in my life. Unbelievable. Yeah. And I mean, when I, again, like I say, took the picture quickly in the car and drove into the hotel kind of thing. I mean, then I discovered her when I looked at the picture. Yeah. I can almost hear her screaming. Yeah. Today should be medicated Yeah The parents would be like No, no, no, Ritalin for you But it's an unbelievable moment And just the looks on all the people's faces You've got the kid there who's come from school He's got his books You know, girl along there Who doesn't quite know what to think of it And then the cop who's ready to blow his whistle Yeah He's ready

57:12He still hasn't blown a whistle all these years later. No. Well, now it's The Wizard of Oz. You switch to color. And you guys suddenly hit Miami, which must have felt like a dream because now you are at the top of show business. The reviews are in. 78, 80 million people watch you guys on Sullivan. The world's going crazy. And then you hit this incredible water in Miami. Yeah. And you're having fun. You're relaxing. Yeah, we were very lucky. and I think Brian Epstein was instrumental in that. He always put in a little bit of leisure, even though we worked crazy days, I don't know, like 300 days a year probably, but he would always put in like a visit to the beach.

58:01Yeah. You know, and we were really thankful. So they'd hired a boat and we just went out for the day and it was so good because after that, You wouldn't mind doing a show, right? You know you felt so good You're here to do another Sullivan appearance but down in Miami which Suddenly everything's different and I think you can see that in this photo. Oh Yeah, which is oh baby. I mean that's an album cover that is the That is such a spectacular photo of George and are we thinking that's a would that be a rum and coke a scotch and coke What were you guys having at the time? I think it was a Scotch and Coke, yeah.

58:46That's what we were doing. But no, that is George living the life. I mean, you know, and he took to it very well. Yes. So he's got the tan. He's in Miami. He's got the tan. He's got a girl, beautiful girl in a sensational bikini. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, a designer. I would have to tell Stella about that one. He's got the ciggy, he's got the drink, he's got the shades Oh my god, yeah It looks like he's got some suntan lotion on It's all good It's all good All good Yeah, that photo makes me very happy And these next ones are just you guys rehearsing Well, actually, you're getting ready to rehearse This is, of course, Ringo And there's a lot of Beatles paraphernalia He's wearing, like, a Beatles souvenir hat Yeah That someone handed to you And he said, all right, I'll put it on It's a good hat.

59:40Yeah, it's a good hat. It's free. And it lets you know who we are. Do you still have any of that stuff, that free Beatles stuff they gave you? No, no, I don't. Well, it'll probably turn up one of these days. It's in there. It's in that locker you have. It's still there somewhere, yeah. No, the nice thing about this stuff in this series of photos, the hotel provided you with, you know, normally you'll get a robe. Yep. Or a dressing gown. You go in a hotel. They had these little terry towel jackets. very cool. I think you see them next because you guys are rehearsing. We didn't take them off. No.

1:00:17In all the rehearsal shots, you can see that you guys are wearing...

1:00:29I'm surprised you didn't wear them for the next three albums. And just a shout out to That's Mal in the background. Mal Evans, who was your roadie. and he's got a sunburn. Mal, yeah. Mal was a lovely man who was our roadie and a big bear of a man. And he was a sweetheart. You know, he just, he loved us and we loved him. You know what's incredible too is you look at what a band travels with today, there hasn't been a band nearly as big as you guys since and yet your entourage is very small. It's a mind-boggling by today's standards. Yeah. Two people, Mal and Neil. Yeah, taking care of instruments, hotel rooms, in and out, taking care of everything, baggage.

1:01:19Yeah. And one of them was here with you. That is, of course, George Martin, and I believe his fiancée. She was fiancée at the time, and they later got married, yeah. Judy Lockhart Smith. Oh, that's a nice name. Very posh. she's still alive she's a lovely lovely lady well she is Lady Martin now as George was knighted but they were great they were a lovely couple and of course George was a brilliant man and a great producer he also had a fantastic sense of humour so he and Judy got on very well and yeah, they were a great couple. Also, I just have never seen a photo. I don't think I've seen him in a bathing suit.

1:02:12It's just such a... I am always seeing him iconic, even late in the Beatles days when everyone else is wearing whatever. He's always suit and tie proper. You know, EMI. This is the way we do things. So this picture was, I thought, very arresting for that reason. Yeah. There's a later picture where he's got Judy is going to throw her in the pool. But that was lovely. You know, just having these moments of leisure. And then these friends of ours who were on the trip could join us. This photo is so funny. You're there, I think, on the beach. And you see an ad go by. And you take a picture of it. There is only one Mr.

1:02:57Pants. And it's true. Have you ever seen another Mr. Pants? I have not. Me neither. There's only one. But I love the idea that Mr. Pants decided, I'll buy an ad. We'll have the plane fly by where the Beatles are. Maybe one of them will take a photograph and show it 60 years from now. And I'll get some free advertising. Yeah? Oh, man. So what do you think it was? Like a trouser firm? Mr. Pants. Yes, it's got to be trousers. It's got to be trousers. And back in the day, trouser firms, as we called them, were all the rage. Firm trousers. Yeah. A trouser firm.

1:03:44You made it sound like a law firm. I love it. Welcome to the trouser firm. This is one of my favorites because it's George as happy as anyone could possibly be. Yeah. In the toweling jacket. In the toweling jacket. no you know that i can say you've got to imagine my joy yeah at first of all rediscovering these and then seeing this yes it just you know it just takes you back it's like your family snapshots but these are shots my family snapshot but they're of the beatles and um just so lovely to capture a moment of george like that yeah you know you you don't kind of see him like that yeah uh and we We were on a boat in Miami, and we were loving it.

1:04:31And then I'm going to end on the photo that's on the cover. Oh, no, I'm sorry. There's one more to go. I wanted to get in one before we wrapped it up. That's me being horrified by the fact I've caught a fish. Yeah. Yeah. You didn't intend to catch one. You got one, and I think you put it back. I did put it back, yeah, in a hurry.

1:04:57Already, the inner vegetarian in you is saying, this will not work for me. You may go, fishy, you may go. Yep. And then I wanted to end on this one. This is the cover shot. Just for fun, I walked over there today. It was amazing how much it's changed. But also, what's still the same? I looked at this photograph and I thought, there you are, I think shooting out the back of the window. I think you're on your way to the plaza, maybe from the Ed Sullivan. but just the fact that you had the presence of mind to take some photos while all this was happening is miraculous to me it's a great shot well thank you you know the thing is we were so fascinated being in america seeing american life american cars american buildings new york so yeah you know if people are running up the street that's to us that was fascinating and you know, wow, we've made it.

1:05:53Yeah. Well, I want to make sure that I wrap this up. I have to tell you that I have been lucky enough to be in my business now for, you know, 30 some odd years and I get to talk to everybody. I can't think of a single person who's brought more joy to more people than you. And it is, I mean that, seriously. and

1:06:23I really mean that and I don't just mean I don't just mean with the Beatles I mean and my son would agree Wings the solo work the work that you've been doing McCartney 3 you just don't stop making really lovely beautiful music and so when I arrived here today, someone in your group said, well, thanks for doing this, Conan. And I said, what are you talking about? This is an absolute joy and a thrill and can't think of anything cooler than to get to spend an hour with you and look at these photos. So I think on behalf of everybody here, I want to say thank you, Paul McCartney. Thank you. Thank you.

1:07:33Thank you.

1:07:58Thank you.

1:08:16you