The State Of The Entertainment Business With Jeff Ross

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1:08Conan O 'Brien needs a fan. Want to talk to Conan? Visit teamcoco.com slash call Conan. Okay, let's get started. Hey, it's our Thursday episode. Normally, we talk to fans in this spot, but today we're going to try something a little different. and I'm going to talk to someone who I've known for 32 years and he's definitely not a fan. I'm talking about Jeff Ross, executive producer extraordinaire. He and I started out together on the old late night show back in the day. And Jeff, you're the guy that understands the business of Hollywood. I don't. I'm kind of an outsider, an artist, because of a Michelangelo roaming the streets, painting his great masterpieces, head in the clouds.

1:53But you, you get the business. What's going on in Hollywood these days? I just want to know, Jeff Ross, what's going on in Hollywood? How's the business? Am I being sandbagged? No, this is not a sandbag. This is me questioning you. What's going on in the business? The business, Jeff. I hear that studios are - It's tough out there. It's tough out there. What's going on? I don't know what's happening. Well, I only hear what's happening because our world is pretty good. Our world is good. Our world is good. Are we thriving in the business? Yes. Okay. Okay. I have no idea. I have no idea what we're doing.

2:27But what a strange world. When we started out together back in 1993, we met in April of 1993. I was 29 when I met you. Now I'm older than that. and not me you've you've somehow got 70 years older and i have gotten even younger but but uh now you know we've got this podcast empire and i'm having a lot of fun it's all great yeah but if i had told you 32 years ago we're not even going to be working in television anymore we're going to be basically doing a radio show that goes over the computer Hunter. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. So that's your analysis. It's crazy. Well, it is crazy. I mean, we have our HBO show.

3:13Yeah, that's true. That's true. I didn't mean to discount HBO. HBO's, and we have a lot of fun with that. Yes. A good time. But again, it's a very different, I'm going to say this. I don't think anyone's ever said this before. It's a very different landscape now. It is. That's a good word. Yeah. Are you talking about specifically late night or talk shows? You know, I think everyone's talking about late night. Byron Allen's taking over. That's what Byron Allen is taking over for Colbert's show. Is that right? Well, yeah, it's interesting. He bought the time. Wait, what's that? What are you talking about?

3:42In other words, he went to CBS. Byron Allen went to? He went to CBS. He's buying the time, the time period. Okay. And he's producing his own show and selling the ads himself. I believe that's how it's working. I didn't know that. That's fascinating. We could just buy time on TV. No, wait a minute. Can I do it? Essentially, CBS is like in profit because they just sold the time to him. Well, wait a minute. So you're saying I could go back on NBC. They'd probably let me go on at like three in the morning if I bought the time. If that. What's that? If that. But yeah. Okay. Four in the morning. All right.

4:13Maybe. I could give the farm report. There's nobody there left. So if you could, you could wind up with. I could get back on NBC. If, now listen, this is where you come in because you understand the business. You understand what kind of money our business has. Can my production company, can we buy the four o 'clock time slot on NBC 4 AM and create our own show and sell all that sweet advertising money that'd be coming in at 4 a.m. Yeah. Is that a good business model? Do you want me to get in the weeds on this? Yes. Okay. I don't think NBC controls 4 a.m. Perfect. Then we can just squat there. Squatter's weights?

4:45We can be like, yeah, people that just, you know, when someone, an old hobo shows up in an apartment and just says, I'm here now, and they can't get him out. Why don't I squat? We did do that. Why don't I squat at 4 a.m.? We did do that. We did do that. How do you squat on a time slot? We kind of did do that for like 10 years at NBC. All right. listen that's terrible um we did fine for them uh i'm just fascinated by this new world i don't understand it but now you can buy a time slot yeah you did it's like syndication it's essential syndication i should go into syndication it's essentially what he okay what about this and i'm just spitballing ideas here but this is a chance for people out there to hear our process i think i'd be great in daytime i think housewives would love me i think i could buy a daytime slot, we could have a syndicated show called, and guess what?

5:34It's called Gun In! And it's got an exclamation point and like a happy face. You don't remember. You don't remember that before we went to TBS, we took a meeting with these guys, a company that's called Debmar Mercury. Right. And they wanted to do a daytime show. Oh. Remember? This is all a blur to me because it was like the middle of a car accident. It was in Rick Rosen's office and we did take that meeting. We took a meeting and they pitched me as a daytime host. Yes. Oh, that'd be awful. I'd be so lovable and fun. No, you said lovable and fun. I said it would be awful. Why would it be awful?

6:04Maybe not then. Because your humor is for the wee hours of the night. I don't know what time people are listening to this podcast. Well, I'm saying that your sense of humor is kind of silly and edgy and goofy. I think Adam could look right now and see when most people listen to this podcast. A lot of moms would just be like, what is this? You also have a good business perspective. And you are the podcast whisperer. Does what I do translate to daytime? Should I have a daytime show? I don't love it. No. Why don't you love it? For the reasons that Sona said, I think like, I just can't imagine that, that demographic sitting around on there, you know, watching in their kitchen.

6:46What is it? Can I say something? Explain that demographic, Adam. Say it. Say it. What's that demographic? Go ahead. Go ahead. Here's what I will say. Oh, you, as you've aged, your audience has stayed very young. You have a very young, mobile digital first audience. I think that the podcast, it makes a ton of sense that you're a successful podcaster, that you have a big YouTube channel. Can I say this? And I say this to Adam. Him here. I say this to Adam with all respect. Fuck you. You know what I just learned? Fuck you. I'm on a roll here. Fuck you. You, how dare you tell me I've aged, first of all.

7:21Sorry. Haven't aged at all. Second of all, this makes me want to shut down the podcast immediately and the HBO travel show immediately. And because I am very reactive, I'm launching a daytime talk show. It's called Conan! And it's two A's. C-O-N-A-A-N exclamation point. Well, that saves it. And it's mostly just to spite me? Yes. Most of what I do is to spite someone around me. I've done so much to spite Jeff. I've done so much to spite Sona. And so much of my career now is about spiting you. But listen, we own it. It's syndicated. And yes, it will do terribly, but we get to own how terribly it does.

8:00What do you think? I actually like the idea. It's interesting that, no, not the idea of you in daytime. I still don't like that idea. I like this Byron Allen idea, though, that linear is now just kind of like up for sale. Like it's real estate. You can just go and buy real estate on linear television. I think that's interesting. There might be opportunities there. I don't think it's daytime. Ellen, when her daytime show did something very popular, she would come out and she would dance. People know that I'm very physical and stuff like that. Here's my thing. I come out and dance and I don't stop.

8:31I dance for the entire hour. I dance the entire hour and people come out and pitch their projects in the background and you barely hear them. And I'm rocking out the whole time. And I could get into the kind of shape where I do that for a whole hour of just dance. And tell me housewives don't want to see that. Is that a derogatory term? Housewives don't want to see that. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I don't want to use a derogatory term. Adam, what's the demo? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Is that offensive to the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City? I'm not the person to ask. I don't know. Okay.

8:59I don't know. It's just I'm spitballing here. Make it good. I was just saying MTV's The Grind was very popular. You could bring back MTV's The Grind. Oh, MTV is so gone though, isn't it? What is MTV now? I think MTV is going to, I don't know. The Paramount thing, we'll see what happens. Well, those VJs do. They're not around anymore. Don't tell me Kurt Loder isn't still on TV. talking to Chris Novoselic and the rest of Nirvana. I mean, come on. You can't fool me. What am I, Rip Van Winkle? I fell asleep for 30 years. I need to know what's going on in da business. What do you counsel me to do? You're my consigliere.

9:43You're my Tom Hagen. I think you should keep doing what you're doing because it's going really well. Okay. So keep going with the podcast. Yes. Oh, yeah. and daytime show should we let that go it's Conan with two A's and I'll go up to three A's here's what I'm going to say do you really want to do a daily show again never okay then forget it okay wait what if he said he did what are you going to say were you going to say something if he wanted to do a daily show you know what I learned being here just in the last 10 minutes this is like the suck up room this is what goes on in here everybody sucks up to Conan not Eduardo we do not suck up to him Big suck up.

10:22Not Eduardo. I'm telling you you'd be great at it. You'd be great at it. I told him not to do it. You told him not to do it, but you said he'd be great at it. No. No, no. Did you? Can I tell you one thing? You got to give Eduardo his props. Eduardo despises me. That's right. And has made it very clear from day one. Just because occasionally I spill water into the electrical outlets. You called me the Sonic Stalin. Yeah, Sonic Stalin. Yeah, you did. Yeah, I did. Yeah, you rule with an iron fist. You've killed so many of your own people. um i'm just saying that he doesn't know i get a lot of pushback in this room okay but uh i i don't know what the next move is we've got you don't well there is well you don't need a next move first of all you can do whatever you want and i think that's frightening and i think that we've talked about various things and things you might want to be interested in doing all of which are possible and you can do you know what no one's ever approached me about a clothing line which i find oh no that's not true gavin no gavin pologne gavin pologne is my I'm Gavin Pallone is my manager.

11:21If we don't even know what Gavin's story is, we never have. He told me he was a manager years ago and I've known him longer than I've known you. That's right. I've known Gavin forever. And he'll come up with these ideas, but they're not grounded in anything. He didn't come to me with a proposal. He just said, you got to sell clothes. And I think for a while, Oh, his one good idea. Hair gel. No hair pomade. A pomade. Right. Right. And I think what you shaking your head. No, I think it's a great idea. I just don't know that it was his idea. Oh, whose idea do you think it was? You can say, I think Liza and I both came up with it on the same day.

12:00Okay. Well, first of all, I don't, I don't want to, but then Gavin wouldn't let it go. Oh, that might be true. Okay. Gavin was pushing coffee. He was put a coffee brand. And you know what? His push for coffee brand was people think you're so hopped up on coffee. It was, they would buy the kind of coffee you're on. That was his pitch. like you should sell Ritalin pills because people think that you're an out of control child. There was also not tequila but some kind of he wanted it. I thought it was a whiskey. A whiskey, right. Yeah, Irish whiskey. He wanted it so an Irish whiskey and no self-respecting Irishman will drink what I'm drinking.

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15:57No clothing company has come to me. No, not a clothing company. No, they have not. Okay. Well, don't say everything. Well, it's been pitched to you. No, but I think people probably look at the way I dress and think, I want to look like him. He's like Don Draper on Mad Men. No question. Okay. How you doing there? I think that if someone has really long legs, they'll be like, what jeans does Conan wear? Yeah. Just for the sizing? Just for the sizing, for your proportions. Okay, what about that? I have very, my proportions are extremely long legs. Yeah. Clothing that's tailored for the man who's had some sort of genetic malfunction and has really long legs.

16:32You know? It's like big and tall, but just tall. Yeah, just tall in the leg. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cone O 'Brien's tall in the leg stores. Okay. And it's just for people who are really long in the leg. Yeah. You know, in the early days. This room's getting really, this room's getting really quiet. Speaking of your legs, in the early days of the internet and of YouTube, for a long time. And we could probably, somebody could probably look it up. The biggest clip on YouTube was you and Spanx. Oh, jeggings. Yeah. I wish I had Spanx. I thought it was in Spanx then. No, it was jeggings. I wore jeggings and that was a huge clip.

17:06It was a thing. It was like a five second clip and it was humongous. you should do something that is way outside of what you would normally do. Like, something charitable and kind? No, I'm saying like a makeup line. You know how like Rihanna came up with a makeup line that's for different complexions. Like you, if you did, if you went up against Rihanna. You know what? Rihanna, Rihanna, Rihanna would shit her pants if she knew I was coming after her. If Rihanna knew that Conor O 'Brien was coming out for the pale man in your life, you know, and it's like it covers up an eye vein and all the stuff that I'm pitching is like, look, we all have a prominent eye vein that shows up on camera when we're doing a podcast.

17:48It's also a really specific problem. Well, this, apply this and it softens it. And your freckles. If you have like a lot of freckles, get what? If you have super thin lips and beady, creepy eyes. Jeff, I think we found it. Yeah, I think so. I think your pitch is perfect. Jeff, what is - It's pitch perfect. Let's be serious. Back to serious for a second. We don't know. I have a question for you that you can answer. all i know is that so many people i know aren't working so many of the writers we know it's very hard to get work now yet i go home and all i see are thousands of new streaming shows there's never been more product available to people but my sense is that a lot of people aren't working what's happening i think a lot of them are made overseas a lot of them and i'm not saying it's the entire issue but i think a lot of them are made overseas but what about so that means that writers don't write them right u.s writers don't write of course writers write them but u.s writers don't write them wow american oh my god yeah yeah it's it's crazy because that is the puzzling part is i go home and liza and i are just flipping through i mean every time you turn on one of these streamers they've got uh you need seven more titles seven more shows yeah you need subtitles but there's so much product and uh and then you wonder well gee that's good i don't think i don't think it's the whole problem i think things got really expensive and out of control and in this country in this town of all places we had a moment on the oscars that was really said a lot to me which is we had an idea for the oscars where i'm backstage and i just had this image flashed sometimes things just come to me as an image and one image was when i'm coming back when they're bumping in from commercial to come back to me i'll be backstage and it'll be a um i'm rolling on the floor with nine golden retrievers i'm rolling on the floor with nine nine golden retrievers and the band's playing and then you hear ladies and gentlemen once again your host conan o 'brien and i leap up and a team of a whole bunch of people with giant um you know uh lint brushes roll me really quickly and i step out on stage and go hi everybody you know cinematography and it was just this quick silly visual that i loved and it's really interesting um one of the producers said, okay, this is going to be incredibly expensive.

20:15And I said, really just getting a couple of golden retrievers. And she said, well, the rule is each dog has to be acclimated with the other dog. So they all have to live together for like two weeks before they can come on, before they can be on camera together. And if they're living together, all their people, their handlers have to live with them too. And she was going through all the things and how the cost got up to i think it's going to cost as much as like uh you know baseline sticker price for like a porsche it was it was like thirty thousand dollars i think it was more than that maybe i think it was more than 30 but it was so not a porsche but a really good high-end and then i think somebody said somebody said then somebody said what about puppies and they went more expensive yeah puppies are more expensive we and and basically it's all this stuff that gets built in over time these different rules and i realized in that moment you know we used to do things in the 90s we used to get away with murder because we would think of an idea at 4 30 a really weird idea and we would throw it out on the air and um then a lot of time goes by and i think rules change and things i also think in the oscars especially when people hear oscars the price goes up yeah i I think you're right.

21:36I think you're right. Yeah. And, but I was, I, in that moment with the golden retrievers, I thought, oh, this is a concrete example of something that's happening. It's making me think, I see why people go to Budapest to shoot something. Yeah. Because I see why, because, um, and I've, I've heard that a lot of, I mean, we used for years, for over a decade, for 11 years, we were on Warner brothers that, and it was, you know humming that things are quieter in some of these lots than they used to be when we left they were building new stages i believe yeah and everything was packed and i hear now that's like half empty i don't know i don't know that can i say one thing i don't know that it's true i will say that happens whenever conan o 'brien leaves the place makes sense mbc pretty much collapsed after i left um you know but that's called the effect when i leave a party in a way it did Good luck to that party.

22:33But yeah, it's fascinating to me. I mean, we're joking around, but then at the same time, I do accidentally have real questions, which is I, you know, we've now been, I got started in 1985. That's ancient history now. Very different. And you know, it's funny. I was surfing the internet the other day and something came up. I don't know if it was on Instagram or maybe it was Instagram, where they know kind of what you're interested in. And they showed me footage of a video store, like a Blockbuster. Blockbuster, yeah. And it was from 1986 or something when I was first out here with Greg Daniels.

23:15And someone had taken a video with like a video camera of all the displays. And now it looks like the footage I used to look at when I was a kid from the 1920s. Oh, trippy. And I realized, you know what I mean? where people are riding around with wearing straw hats and funny. I remember looking at a blockbuster now looks like, oh, that's a speakeasy during 40 years, 40 years ago. And I know that young people now see that footage and think everyone looks crazy. We all look like we're in a flock of seagulls with padded shoulders and we're going, oh, it's my I have to rent a video so I can watch Back to the Future again.

23:52You know, I'm going to go home and put this into a giant 600 pound machine and watch Back to the Future. Yeah. And then rewind it. Yeah. And then. Be kind, rewind. Yeah. Remember when we were in Finland and somebody came up to us, we were at a party and somebody came up to us with a phone and said, hey, look, your show's on. Oh, someone showed us our show on a phone. Now this was like how many years ago? Oh, I mean, this would be 25 years ago or something. 20 years ago. And they went, I'm looking at it and we're like, what? Oh, I felt bad because I said, witch. Oh, no. And I threw hot oil on them.

24:21And then she was a witch. Oh. But it had nothing to do with her having the phone. That was completely the side. but that's good no I remember we were at some event for NBC and they said we were in Washington DC and it was some event broadcasting event and this is in the 90s and they said we're going to show you something called HDTV high definition TV and they had it on a flat screen TV and we walked up to it it was a football game and I was watching it and it was the I mean I don't think HDTV was commercially available at the time. They were just showing us a sample of this thing that was going to be coming very soon.

24:58I remember being able to see the divots in the ground and it blew me away. And now you watch TVs that are probably a hundred times more precise than that one. And we're just like, duh, whatevs. We get so inured to this technology. Remember how expensive they were when they came out? And now they're like, It's like a commodity. Oh, you used to get a flat screen TV and people were like, oh, you're getting a flat screen? Yeah, I went to the bank and I got a cosigner and I talked to my accountant. It's being installed tomorrow by a team of scientists. I mean, Adams can speak to it. Well, this criminal over here can speak to it too.

25:37Yeah, fuck you, mortal. When the games are on, you just have your phone and you're just watching games live. But that's you, Jeff. I mean, I've seen you many times sitting alone at a restaurant. No, these guys too. This guy does it while he's engineering this show. Yeah, remember? Oh, that's right. Eduardo, you like to watch your... Well, you call it football. I call it soccer. But it's a... I'm watching one right now. No, I'm just kidding. That would have been cool. No, it's a whole... It's all... I was just having lunch with somebody just like, oh, wow, you really cracked it. There's no job.

26:08Things have changed. Yeah, but it's just stunning. You can't ever fire us. What's that? we have you have you have to work for until you're like 90 because otherwise we're all fucked so you should get a job that's just ridiculous anywhere else what are you talking no conan you really have to work till you're 90 thank you we'll put it in writing um just until you're 90 thank you then i'll be 96 do you think jeff that you have adapted to the new ways uh i don't know in what sense do you mean um do you know how to work your phone do you know how to

26:45is that the baseline standard do you know how to work your phone i'm saying because david knows full well that i don't know these things jeff has never had to call me to help him log into a streaming service like you do well i have had to call you for a few things every now and then not a lot yeah dig a hole by the way very different you better put my house on the market what started yelling i had to do something oh god oh come on it gets so dark so fast listen oh no i bring you in here and then i expose you as a highway killer yeah well you know um he's called the highway mumbler people are disappearing on the 405 freeway and they all they find is a shoe and they hear some mumbling guilty as charged listen so you say the state of the podcast is good.

27:36We should keep going. Oh, yes. HBO, it's all good. I shouldn't panic. No. All right, well, listen, but... HBO loves you. They want more of whatever you want to give them. Oh, hey. Oh, hey. Well, I'm going to give them a daytime show. Oh, Conan! Watch Conan dance for an hour as guests far behind him yell to try to be heard. Can you imagine just me in the foreground dancing and they're in the background going, the book's called A Time for Summer. they get frustrated and walk away it'll be great we're on for three whole days yeah alright Jeff thanks for coming in I think you brought sanity to a very damaged ecosystem and just for the record Eduardo despises me hate you and I get a lot of hate from this room so I think it's very good yeah that's our job that's what we do happy to join in very happy Conan O 'Brien needs a fan with Conan O 'Brien Sonam Ovcesian and Matt Corley Produced by me, Matt Gourley Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Nick Leow Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino Take it away, Jimmy Supervising producer, Aaron Blair Associate talent producer, Jennifer Samples Associate producers, Sean Doherty and Lisa Berm Engineering by Eduardo Perez Get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign up at SiriusXM.com slash Conan Please rate, review, and subscribe to Conan O 'Brien Needs a Fan wherever fine podcasts are down.