Uzo Aduba

26:47And I had made it up in my mind. I was on Monday going to call my agent and call my manager and tell them that I was going to go to law school. I'm good. The ultimate humiliation. And cheap.

27:08Can you imagine there are lawyers listening right now? They're like, damn it! I had hung in another day. Yeah, right? But I did. I was like, legit, that was what I was going to do. I called my sister, Chi-Chi. I ordered some wine, I ordered some sushi, and we were going to be like an I'm out party. And then 5.45 p.m. on the nose. Oh, and my phone rang, and it was my team saying, hi, how are you? I was like, I'm good. How are you? And they're like, remember that audition you went on for that show, Orange is the New Black? And I was like, yeah. And they're like, you remember the part you went out for?

27:49Because it was a different part. I was like, yeah, I remember. And they're like, well, you didn't get it. I was like, I'm leaving at the right time now that agents are calling you to tell you when you don't get jobs. This is a new part of our service. But you failed. And we want to talk about it for like 40 minutes.

28:10And I was like, okay. They were like, but they'd like to offer you another role. and I was like wow and it was I'd never done anything on TV it was wild and I was just like this is crazy and I definitely did not know at all for real for real for real for real for real that that was going to change my life in anyway it knew that it kept me in you know like but I had no idea that it was gonna do anything You talk about this in the book. So you get the role of Crazy Eyes, and the time between you getting that role, I think it's within a year, maybe less, between getting that role and sitting at the Emmys, nominated when you hear your name as the winner.

29:05Yes. That's crazy. Yeah, that's fantastic. And who gives you the Emmy? Morgan Freeman. Oh my God. Morgan Freeman. It was wild. I was like walking up there and I was like, for some reason listing like his resume and I was like, glory, Bruce Almighty. Like driving this stage. Shosh in redemption, a favorite. Going. Yeah. Like this guy's amazing. Yeah. And he was just handing it to you. We started talking about the life cycle of the penguin. No Morgan, no.

29:44Yeah, but I mean, it's such a funny thing about this business, but talk about famine and then feast. It's just there are long periods or stretches of disappointment and misery. And then I'm always reminded of there's this movie that was made, I believe, in the 1950s. And it's one of the later Humphrey Bogart movies, Humphrey Bogart, Katharine Hepburn. It's a great movie called The African Queen. And it's about the they're basically it takes place in the beginning of World War One. and they're trying to make their way down this river because they have this idea to accomplish this mission together.

30:18And they're in this tiny little boat and it's impossible odds. And they're going and they're going and they're going. And then finally, and John Huston directed this movie. It's brilliant. And there's this scene that just resonates with me so many times where the river has gotten really low. And so Humphrey Bogart is pulling them through the river and he's covered in leeches. And then finally the weeds just get too thick and they feel like we'll never get to the main river. We're going to die here. And they resign that it's over and they get back in the boat and he takes the leeches off of them, peels them off and then they just cover under a blanket and they've lost.

30:52And the camera pans up and you can see that they're about 20 feet from the river. That always hits me. That has happened to me so many times in my life where I didn't know how close I was. And what happens is overnight it rains and their boat just floats onto the river. but I think about that just that image a lot which is you got close to saying well this isn't going to happen and if you could pan up it's like no no you are you are seconds yeah seconds yeah from being there yeah you just didn't know I I needed that message B um thank you um yes like Like, I didn't. I really didn't. Like, I felt like all the time that I had put into this thing that I loved, and I love it, you know?

31:45Like, I really love it. I love it still, you know? And to not feel like I could, like, was getting to do it, you know what I mean, was really tough to wrestle with. and make peace with. And I didn't want my, and I've said this since the beginning, I'm like, the minute, and I do mean the exact minute that I no longer enjoy this, I will go find something else to do. And I was just feeling like this seer and this worry, really, that I was not going, I couldn't love this, this idea of just trying to make something happen that maybe God, the universe or energy, whatever we're calling it, was telling me very clearly, like, no, this is not for me.

32:36And then, you know, when that happened, it made me think of that quote from The Godfather. It's like, just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in, you know, and I tried to get out and I was like, no, you're supposed to be doing this. It came like right in the minute that I needed it to happen, like I said. and it was not something that I had any expectation of other than the two to three episodes that I was asked to come on to do. And that felt like enough when I got them too. Like when I did two episodes, I was like, that was enough. And they're like, we're going to see you back. I was like, oh my gosh, I'm going to get to do that third episode.

33:10Awesome. You know what I mean? And I was cool with that. It was totally enough. And then it became more than enough. And I was like, wow. Like just blown away. Then what really happens in the showbiz cycle Well, as then, nothing becomes enough. What? You call this first class? I can't lie down completely. It is, there is a sick thing. I've witnessed. God bless that it's never happened to me. Tona, more tea, please.

33:49the um and then later you get you get to you play shirley chisholm just this great historic character and you get an emmy for that as well wild and and it's just uh and like i say it's when it starts to rain it really pours i mean to me because so much of this book is about your mom and getting strength from your mom and perspective from your mom and reading your mom's journals and going back and reading after she passed her journals. And there's a part where you're reading her journal and she's writing in her journal. You didn't know this at the time, but man, I'm really worried about Luso. I don't know that she's going to make it.

34:29And she would, you know, leave food, put food in your refrigerator. Yeah, like she, after I moved, you know, I'm reading these, true story, like reading these journals. And it's like, she's in there just like constantly, you know, like this path that I've chosen. And she's like praying. The thing I think is she's prayed every night. Like she's like, I pray every night. I'm like, that Uzo, Uzo. I'm worried about Uzo. She never calls me. She needs money. She called today. And I gave her what I had, you know, and it's like she's stressed out. She would come up the first time she came when I moved to New York.

35:00And I didn't have anything. I was waiting tables. I didn't have anything in my fridge. And she was like, where is your food? And I was like, you know, I just eat at work. It's fine. You know, like they give a pre-meal. I don't know if any of you guys waited tables, you know, like pre-meal. They give you pre-meal there. I was like, they give me pre-meal there. And so I eat that. And, you know, in the morning I just have like a little oatmeal or like some couple of hard boiled eggs. It's fine. And right before she's leaving, she took me to the stop and shop. So I was in Queens. She took me to the stop and shop over there in Sunnyside, a store on the Astoria line, which is a big grocery store.

35:36And she was like, get whatever you want. And I was like, no, I'm fine. And she's like, whatever you want. And she like would come and either bring food from home or like help me stock up my fridge because she was like, I can't do much, but I can do this, you know? And would just like, you know, contribute in that way. And I'm forever grateful. My mom was an amazing lady. I just need to go on record as having said that she was not a good mother. She was an excellent mother. Well, I mean, that's such a big part of this book, talking about that. You said your mom was very, not a tall woman. No. She's like five feet tall?

36:12Yeah. But she seemed really tall to you. Huge. She was a giant to me. My whole life. In my child memory, and probably because I'm like two feet, I'm like looking up at her, you know what I mean? And I don't think it was until well, well, well adulthood that I realized it was like, you're like, not only are you not tall, you're actually short. Like, you know, like you're small. She was wearing incredibly high platform She got these Elton John shoes That's right Elton John estate sale That's right She wore them to intimidate Took them off when we were all Yeah, she was that But she was spunky and had such a big personality and I was trying to be I'm a big, big personality too in my house and would talk and be like, no, we need to do it this way.

37:08My mom's, like, number one comment to me all the time was, Uzo, there's only one captain on this ship. And you're looking at her. That's, like, her go-to life. What's interesting is you talk about so much. People always think they need to change or mold themselves to make it. when sometimes, for example, you know, like the way that you said, I was interested in, you were interested in changing your name when you were younger. You were interested or you had people tell you early on in acting, you've got this gap in your teeth. You should probably do something about that. And there are a lot of people who go through these cosmetic changes to try and fit into something that someone else thinks they should fit into.

38:00But now that whole idea This just seems crazy. It does. And I can't imagine if I had done that. You know, frankly, for me, you know, there were so many pictures of me when I look at myself as a small kid. I just did not smile because I was so conscious of my gap. I do this like, you know, closed mouth smile. My mom would always be like, smile, smile, smile. And then my senior year, I had a photographer for my senior yearbook portrait. You know, you get your senior pictures. It's like the fancy one. Right. So we had like the outside guy come and like do the like yearbook picture. And, you know, like every time we'd be talking, I'd be smiling.

38:41And then as soon as he picked up the camera to shoot, I'd close my mouth and not smile. And he's like, why do you keep doing that? You know, what's that about? And I was like, um, I don't like my smile. And he was like, really? I think you have a beautiful smile. And I didn't smile in that picture, but I did immediately the rest of that school year start smiling. And even now when I walk on carpets and I'm supposed to give, you know, like face or whatever, I find myself wanting to smile and it's because I want to like make up for these lost smiles, you know. And I feel like it's such an identifier for who I am.

39:20And if I change that, that's so much of my ancestry in this space. Between my teeth, it's who I am. It's the smile my aunt has. It's the smile my great aunt had. It's a smile so many of my cousins have. We call it my mother's maiden name, Anjoku Gap. And I would have taken a piece of myself away. You know, and now I just wear it proudly. And when asked to take it out, in the beginning of my career, I had a choice. And there was an early part of my life when I wanted to really fit in and thought taking away the parts of me that made me unique would make me better. Yep. And at this stage of my life, when I was approached with this idea of closing my gap, I really understood that the parts of myself that made me unique are actually what make me better.

40:14Yeah. Yeah. And it's just. It takes a little bit of living to figure that out. For sure. Especially when you're. I had this experience where Mike Wallace, the great, you know, like journalist and host of 60, kind of one of the lead hosts of 60 Minutes. he was on our show once and um this has been much commented on i'm not just white i'm translucent i go beyond white uh i'm a whole other thing and uh a side effect of one of that is that i have this uh vein underneath my eye that you can kind of see and um i remembered i was doing a you know talking to the great Mike Wallace and we're having this interview.

40:59And then I say, okay, well, you know, we'll take a break. We have more with Mike Wallace right after this band. And Mike Wallace just takes his finger and he reaches over and he puts it on the vein underneath my eye. And he said, what are you going to do about that? And the thing is, he wasn't being mean. mean he was well no i i have a lot of respect for mike wallace and and he was very nice to me what he was kind of doing was just saying like as a guy who'd been in broadcasting since the 1940s or 50s he was kind of just saying oh yeah that's something you're gonna you know you're because i was early in my career he was probably saying like oh yeah so what's uh what do we do about that is there a kind of makeup you can put on or something or can you get get rid of And I thought, well, it is, I think it's supplying blood to my brain.

41:54So I could just see going to a surgeon and having it removed and I'm just like, welcome to the whole section of the speaking part of my occipital lobe is gone. But man, his eyes look good. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, I just remember thinking - The lobotomy. There are all these things about me. I was, you know, I had a weird name growing up and looked a little different and wasn't sure where I fit in. I'm like an Irish Catholic kid, but I don't really like sports. And I like to read and I have a weird brain. And I remember just thinking like, I don't know where I fit into the whole thing. But then later on, those things become, oh, thank God.

42:38I mean, I'd still like to fix the vein. But what are you going to do about that? I'm having it removed tomorrow. But I know it's interesting that there are many different forms that can take for lots of different people who are listening that if you can ride it out, those things. And I think, unfortunately, social media and also the rise of all these different cosmetic surgeries or injections people can get has, I see so many people that have clearly injected their lips, injected their faces, done things, and they just look like everybody else now. And I think, well, that's too bad. I love character.

43:21Yeah. I really do. Like, I love those little touches, whether it's in the face, in the hair, in the mouth, whatever, that just makes you look stand in a different way. And I actually think those things make you more interesting. Oh, yeah. In a beautiful way, you know, personally. That's my thoughts on it. Well, I disagree. I think you're out of your mind. In the book, you mentioned that as the years go by, you think more and more about maybe would you visit or would you maybe move back to Nigeria? Yeah. When I say move back to, I mean, you're born here, but you think about maybe going back to that country for a while?

44:10I do think about that. Like repatriate there? Yeah, I do think. I do. I do. I really do. I do. And it was something I used to sort of say, like, back here, behind the back of my head, you know, abstractly, that I wanted to do for, you know, like, with my kids, you know, when I have them. And now that my daughter is here, I do think about that because I think about the line of connection for me to the country was direct from my parents and who lived there the whole lives and then immigrated to the U.S. And then when I think about her, for just a section of time, I would like to, because it's like she's now once more removed, you know?

44:53And I want her to be steeped. It's more about like I don't want to lose the culture for her, but then I also don't want to lose it for me. Like, and I think especially now that both my parents are gone, it's a way like almost like a socket of like plugging in for a little bit and getting a charge that maybe will be enough to last me the rest of my life. But I also do know in having something that I'm learning right now in real time, especially with motherhood, is that they're with me still. Like my mom, I was so nervous, you know, when I was pregnant. There were times where I was wondering, you know, how am I going to do this?

45:39Like, am I going to know what to do? My mom's not here. Like, who's going to show me how to do this? And the reality is that I've come to learn is that she soaked me in who she is and put so deeply into each of us, my siblings and I, so much of her belief system, her values, foundation, how to mother, that a lot of it does come out, even if she's not here. So, yes, I want to go back. This is like a super long answer, but it's like, yes, I want to go back. But if I don't, I also do simultaneously know that I'm like soaked in it still, you know? Yeah. I had an experience not too long ago where I was shooting this travel show for Max, and we went back to Ireland, and my brother, through the help of my brother Justin, and we also used this really good genealogist in Ireland.

46:42And between the two of them, they figured out exactly where my town was that my great-grandfather came from. And I was thinking, you know, I'm not going to feel, you know, much. We're going to go and we're going to see a field where, you know, and my people, you know, had no money and they were tenant farmers. and they worked on this tenant farm in Galbally. And so I was just not expecting to feel anything. And I've been to Ireland a bunch of times, but I thought, okay, I'm just going to see a piece of land that I don't really have any connection to. And they took me there and we have it on camera, but I was blown away by how powerful it was to stand and think, oh, they were here.

47:27And then in one day, this Thomas O 'Brien, I think, just looked out and said, we got to get out of here. And like an idiot, I was looking at the gorgeous mountains and everything saying, why did they leave? And this woman said, you can't eat the view. They didn't have any food. They had to go. And so he just struck out. And so that's the reason. And now I'm back and I've got a camera crew, drones, producers standing around. I flew here on a, you know, it's insane that I'm coming back in this way. Yes. And I was surprised because I'm, I was, the sentimentality of it and the power of it was a bit of a shock to me.

48:16I didn't think that was going to happen. And it does. So see, and I believe that. And like, do you think you're going to feel that way when you come with me to Ireland and look at that piece of dirt? OK, it's gonna be very powerful for you. Almost like the African summit.

48:34I love a special where I take to my town in Ireland and try and like a lot of probing. Like, how do you feel? Is it hitting you? No. No! I mean, it's a feel, but no, this isn't Nigeria. Yeah, but isn't it kind of the same? No! Not at all. Couldn't you just eat the view? Wouldn't your mom be proud that you came back to Galbally, Ireland? No! Who is this idiot, Conan? No. Galbally. Yeah. Well, I'm first of all blown away that you wrote this beautiful book and shared because it's a gift to people. There are a lot of people out there who don't understand. They look at what you've accomplished and they think, well, she caught her break or they don't see the whole arc.

49:32And I think it's really a big part of this podcast is I want people to understand how much all of us have in common and that you just, there's a lot of insecurity, a lot of frustration. There's a lot of ups. There's a lot of downs. And your book chronicles so much of that. And I think it's going to be a tonic for a lot of people out there. So good for you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for that. Thank you for having me today, too. Well, I just thought I'd probably get a free book. Oh. That's why you did this? Well, as a mentor. That's the only reason. I only book people if they're going to bring me free.

50:14You took your watch off. Yeah. I could take that watch. She gave us books. What's that? She gave Sona and I free books. Yeah, I saw that. We have books. Yeah. Plus beautiful jewelry and watches. So much jewelry. Yeah. Free trips to places. We're going to Nigeria with you. Yeah, exactly. You're going from here to visit the Obamas? Don't tell Conan. Actually, the three of us are going to Ireland without me. We're going to Galbally. They're going to Hawaii to visit the Obamas. The Obamas just, but Conan's not coming, right? No, he's not coming. Okay, fine, fine. Well, Uzo, thank you so much for being here.

50:48The book is The Road is Good, and it's fantastic, and it's out in just a few days. And do yourself a favor and grab it because it's a terrific story. and it made me feel really good reading it. And thanks for being here. Thank you. This was awesome. It's only awesome when an awesome person comes. That's true. It is true. Thank you. I can't take non-awesome and get it to awesome. I just can't. I can't. I don't have that power. I do not have that power.

51:30Okay, it's time to do a segment here on the podcast. Do you know what a segment is? Usually we have an idea of what it's going to be. It's like, oh, let's review the reviewers. Right. Oh, pretty good. Yeah, one of your little trickaroos, one of your... Yeah, come on. Some category, if you will. But today we really don't have an idea. There was nothing loaded up. And so Sona had the idea, let's just do some verbal jazz. Let's just start riffing, talking. And the three of us, because we're such great verbal tacticians, musicians, will find it just in the groove. So this is verbal jazz with Conan, Sona, and Matt.

52:10And we're just going to start talking about things. Do-do-do-do-do. Do-do-do-da-da-da-da. And we're going to find it. And we're going to find a great rhythm and people are going to say, hey, I love that. These guys can take empty air and turn it into atonal jazz. As you can tell, I don't love jazz. But we're just talking here. We're just talking about what's going on in our lives. Sona, how are you? Yeah, I'm cool, man. You were in the same old corduroy shirt you wear all the time. Well, it's denim. It's not even close to corduroy. Yeah, I don't know what you're talking about. I just said something.

52:43It's verbal jazz. It's chilly in this studio. Very cold. It's very hot outside. It's hot as balls outside. But I think they overdid it on the air conditioning here. I disagree. It's so hot that I'm still burning from having been out there an hour ago. It's so nice and cool in here. Well, it's really hot where you live, I have to say. In Pasadena. Yeah. And you, of course, you live in Altadena. And you're at a higher altitude. It might be a little cooler for you, but Pasadena, ooh, that's a frying pan over here. Are you not kidding? No, I'm not kidding. No. This isn't a joke. No. This is just verbal jazz.

53:12We're just... Really hot out there. If you cracked an egg on the sidewalk right now, it would scream. Oh, that's it. I see what you did. That's an egg? Yeah, it was verbal jazz. Sizzling. Okay. Yeah. How come you didn't get it? I don't know. I did. Yeah. What's this? The bass. Here, I'll do a transition from Seinfeld.

53:40Who are these people? This is terrible I was going to say we're doing so well so far Can I say something? I think the minute I misidentified Misgendered your shirt And said Which is male? I said corduroy Corduroy or denim? Instead of denim And they're just I don't know my cheap materials that well Wow And so You know I know all my silks In a threadbare t-shirt Oh please I know what are your cotton shirts? This isn't a t-shirt I just painted my bare chest.

54:16Jazz. Jazz. Verbal jazz. Not as good as having something worked out ahead of time. Were you doing a boom-boom-boom bass? But isn't it a boom-boom-boom-boom-boom bass? Depends, man, not if you're Jaco Pistorius. Yeah, that's right. Oscar Pistorius? No, Oscar Pistorius. The former... Yeah, the Blade Runner. went to prison for murder verbal jazz hey you don't know what hey we're on the weather one minute then it's Oscar Pistorius you never know man let's get back to Patrick Dempsey outbreak wasn't that in the intro I know but same episode oh I just called back a riff from the beginning of the show you know I realized he's really the only professional He was working in podcasts for a long time before us.

55:11He's the guy that puts all these things together. You're constantly fucking up. Yeah. Calling back references that are from an episode that we take. Are you saying this segment got fucked up somehow? Also, he's not the only professional. You were in broadcasting for 30 years. Have you seen what I did? Does anyone think I was a professional? No, not once. Has anyone said, hey, you're that professional from the television. that's never happened everyone I just I look like someone you're a professional amateur exactly I kind of am you are I refuse I refuse to be a professional jazz verbal jazz I think you know I'm look like jazz itself I don't know if this is good or bad what we're doing I know that I've been charged a cover fee to be in here I'm having a drink I don't understand it but I see a lot of people around me snapping their fingers so maybe it's good Blay how do you feel this is going so far Well, you know what?

56:08I think Miles Davis once said there's no wrong notes. It's, you know, like there's no wrong notes in jazz. It's more what comes after it. It's context, man. Yeah, I guess it's kind of, I mean, do you want my honest opinion? Yeah, no. This is unusable. It's terrible. It is terrible. It's terrible. But you do have the riff going of you say that it's jazz, so it's kind of on life support. I don't think we've really hit the point of which it's a real segment yet. Are you serious? This feels all like prologue. I agree. That's the thing about jazz. There's not a hook. There's not a melody per se. Right, there's nothing that would make you want to listen to it.

56:45What are you talking about? No, there's hooks in jazz. Eduardo's upset because he actually likes jazz. And you're shitting on jazz. Yeah, I cannot take this slander anymore. I can't either. Wait a minute. I'm talking about the basketball team. Oh, Utah jazz. Okay, okay. Yeah, I'm just not a fan. That's what I've been meaning the whole time. As a music form, jazz, fantastic. My favorite. You can't name a jazz song or performer I don't love. Utah jazz, don't get me started. They're atonal, arhythmic, and hard to listen to. Okay, fair. Jazz. Jazz. We'll be right back. Wow, unusable. Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend.

57:28With Conan O 'Brien, Sonam of Sessian, and Matt Gourley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Nick Leow Theme song by The White Stripes Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino Take it away, Jimmy

57:46Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair And our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns Additional production support by Mars Melnick Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. You can also get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign up at SiriusXM.com slash Conan. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

58:31Thank you.