A fact checker hangs up his Pinocchios

0:00Pinocchio. It is not the name at the top of President Trump's list of grievances, but it has repeatedly popped up in his speeches over the years. I have to be always very truthful, because if I'm a little bit off, they call me a liar. They'll say he gets a Pinocchio, the stupid Washington Post. They have Pinocchio. I mean, even if you like saying things perfectly, it's a Pinocchio. There's nothing you can say when you don't get a Pinocchio. That is from a campaign rally in 2019. Pinocchios are the reading system used by the fact checker at The Washington Post. The project launched in 2011, joining outfits like PolitiFact and FactCheck.org with a simple mission, evaluate politicians' claims for truthfulness.

0:47Their verdicts ranged from four Pinocchios, just flat out totally wrong, to the rare Geppetto checkmark, completely accurate. In its 14 years, the fact checker has debunked a mountain of dubious claims from both sides of the aisle. We will keep this promise to the American people. If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period. President Obama's promise about his still-in-the-works Affordable Care Act eventually earned him four Pinocchios. The Mitt Romney ad from the 2012 presidential race got tagged for two. Under Obama, we've lost over half a million manufacturing jobs.

1:28And for the first time, China is beating us. Seven times Obama could have stopped China's cheating. Seven times he refused. And then, of course, came Trump. I am officially running. for president of the United States, and we are going to make our country great again. Trump made more than 30 ,000 false or misleading claims during his first term, according to an analysis by The Post's fact checker. But neither Trump nor his backers seemed to care. That's the grim reality that Glenn Kessler grapples with in his last column as the fact checker. He took a voluntary buyout. He's leaving the Washington Post after a 27-year career.

2:17Consider this. In a world swamped by false claims, can fact-checking still make a difference? From NPR, I'm Mary Louise Kelly.

2:37It's Consider This from NPR. Glenn Kessler is one of many journalists making high-profile exits from The Washington Post, some of whom cite the new direction the paper's leadership is taking. We did get into that in our interview, but we began at the end with the last line of Kessler's last column. It reads, In an era where false claims are the norm, it's much easier to ignore the fact checkers. Sobering words to close out a career at one of the nation's great papers. I asked Kessler how difficult were they to write.

3:11Glenn Kessler:So I have been running the fact checker now for 14 and a half years. And what struck me was how when I reviewed the 3 ,000 or so fact checks I had written or edited. 3 ,000? Wow. Yes. There was a very clear dividing line in the period, which was June 2015. And that's when Donald Trump took the escalator down and announced he was running for president. Before that moment, politicians paid attention to fact checks. They would be shamed by the Pinocchios that I would award. And they tried to keep their claims tethered to the truth, as much as you would expect a politician to do. But Trump really changed the dynamic, and he said many things that were false.

4:02Glenn Kessler:And even though he was fact-checked as false, he would simply double down or triple down and keep saying them. And now he's back again, and you can see falsehoods are actually being used to determine government policy. So where does that leave you? So feeling like the exercise of fact-checking was still worthwhile, still worth doing, even if it didn't alter the behavior of the politicians who you were tracking? Right. The fact-checking business, so to speak, is still very valuable and important. I didn't really fact-check claims to change the behavior of politicians. They're going to do what they're going to do.

4:47Glenn Kessler:The fact checks are intended to make people better informed about complex policies. The more complex the issue is, the more apt a politician is going to try to mislead it. This main thing is that with the rise of Trump and the rise of social media, there are just so many false claims that it's kind of hard for people to sort out what's true or not. So I hear you saying that there is still great value in fact-checking. You've said you would have liked the fact-checker, the column, to continue with somebody else writing it after you were gone. Were you given a reason why that was not possible at the Washington Post?

5:29Glenn Kessler:Well, we tried to work out a period of time, and I was hoping for a longer period of time than the Post was willing to grant me. and the period of time that was finally offered did not seem worth it to actually locate someone and train them. They've left it open as to whether or not they will revive the fact checker. I hope they do. It's an important part of the core of the Washington Post which as its motto says, democracy dies in the darkness. What the fact checker did was bring light to falsehood. and hold people to account. Now, Donald Trump may not listen to them, but he was quite fascinated with the Pinocchios and would often talk about how he hated getting Pinocchios.

6:19Glenn Kessler:So clearly it made an impression on him. He was reading even as he disliked what he was reading. Exactly. And he would also cite Pinocchio, when I gave Pinocchios to his foes. He found it effective that way. He liked those columns better. Yes. So I mentioned the new direction that the Post's leadership is taking, including owner Jeff Bezos' decision that the editorial pages should, going forward, should promote personal liberties and free markets and not publish pieces that oppose those principles. For the record, Glenn Kessler, were you ever censored? Were you ever told by your bosses at the Post, hey, maybe stay away from fact-checking that one thing?

6:59Glenn Kessler:No, not at all. I had complete freedom. I had extraordinary freedom. And I should note very clearly that there's no indication that Jeff Bezos has ever interfered in any of the news side of the newspaper. As the owner, he, of course, has the right to impose whatever kind of policies he wants on the editorial page, the opinion page. I mean that's a traditional prerogative of an owner and I don't begrudge him for – if he wanted the editorial page to be libertarian or super conservative or super liberal. That's his decision as the owner. I do want to ask about what is happening in your newsroom to the extent that you can comment on it.

7:42some of your colleagues, former and current, have described a hollowing out of the Post newsroom. Is that the way you see it?

7:51Glenn Kessler:I would agree with that. It's very sad to see so many talented, experienced reporters and editors leave the newsroom, particularly some who are at the height of their careers who go to some of our competitors, like the New York Times or the Atlantic. and I don't quite understand the rationale for offering this buyout so broadly. I mean, it worked out well for me, but I think it's a mistake because you're losing really excellent people. Well, Glenn Kessler, I wish you well, much joy, and much luck in your next chapters to come. Thank you very much. This episode was produced by Alejandra Marquez-Hansa and Connor Donovan with Engineering by Ted Meebane.

8:41It was edited by Tinbeet Hermias and Sammy Yenigan. Sammy is also our executive producer.

8:50It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Mary Louise Kelly.