In short
Podcast Notes: Consider This from NPR
Episode Title
Can the global economy handle a world with fewer kids?
Episode Overview
- The episode discusses the significant trend of declining birth rates in many parts of the world, particularly in wealthier nations.
- It explores the implications of an aging and shrinking population on the global economy, personal lives, and societal structures.
Key Themes and Discussions
Declining Birth Rates
- Birth rates have dropped globally, with the average number of children born to a woman decreasing by over half since the 1970s.
- Countries like Japan, China, and various European nations are experiencing pronounced population declines, raising questions about future economic stability.
Personal Stories
- The hosts introduce Ashley and Nick Evancho, a couple who have chosen to have only one child, reflecting a growing trend in many families.
- Ashley shares her perspective on parenthood and how choices regarding family size are becoming more personal and less influenced by societal expectations.
Economic Implications
- Experts warn that an aging population could lead to significant economic challenges:
- Increased difficulty in finding employees, especially in sectors requiring younger workers.
- Strain on eldercare and health insurance programs as the population ages.
- Potential need for individuals to work longer before retirement.
Community Impact
- A case study in Malone, New York, highlights the local effects of population decline:
- The community has lost a significant portion of its population, leading to closed businesses and empty storefronts.
- Economic development officials express concern about the lack of young workers impacting local business growth.
Global Perspectives
- Economists like Lant Pritchett discuss the broader implications for countries with shrinking populations and how modern capitalism was built on assumptions of a growing workforce.
- The episode emphasizes that several G7 countries are on a similar trajectory, with births not keeping pace with deaths, particularly in China, Italy, and Japan.
Varied Expert Opinions
- Claudia Goldin from Harvard argues that concerns about population decline may stem from societal shifts and backlash against immigration rather than an impending economic crisis.
- Melissa Carney of Notre Dame warns that the rising costs associated with raising children may dissuade couples from starting families, further entrenching the trend.
Changing Attitudes Toward Parenthood
- Ashley Ivancho reflects on how modern attitudes toward motherhood and career choices are evolving, leading many to opt for smaller families.
- The episode concludes with the notion that society and the economy may need to adapt to the new reality of smaller family sizes.
Conclusion
- The podcast episode raises important questions about how declining birth rates will reshape economic landscapes and societal norms.
- It encourages listeners to consider the implications of these demographic shifts on their lives and the future of communities globally.
Production Credits
- Produced by: Paige Waterhouse and Connor Donevan
- Audio Engineering by: Jimmy Keeley
- Edited by: Andrea De Leon and Courtney Dorning
- Executive Producer: Sami Yenigun
Additional Information
- Part of NPR's ongoing Population Shift series, exploring the causes and implications of global demographic changes.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:01Spin through NPR's archives and you'll find a whole bunch of stories that are variations on a theme. Birth rates in the European Union are so low that the population of the continent is declining. Japan's birth rate has plummeted. Unless things change, the population soon will start shrinking. It's a picturesque island in the middle of Casco Bay, a 90-minute boat ride from the coast. And its population is shrinking. Whether it's a continent or a country or an island off the coast of Maine, lots of places have faced the same question. What happens when the population goes down?
0:37different reasons for the declines. In China, it was decades of a government-enforced one-child policy. In 2015, a year before that policy was canceled, a village Communist Party secretary named Chen Jiru told NPR about how he used to have to be on the lookout for pregnant women.
1:00Having a second child wasn't allowed, so we had to work on them and persuade them to have an abortion. At the time, our work as a village cadre revolved around women's big bellies. Russia's population started to shrink in the 2010s, a delayed effect of fewer people choosing to have kids in the turmoil that followed the collapse of the Soviet Union. Gayanei Sufarova put it this way to NPR back then. The number of potential mothers is not big, so we can't expect the growth of the number of births in the future. For all of these places, an aging, shrinking population means big economic challenges.
1:40And the phenomenon has spread. Consider this. People around the world are having fewer children. That could shake the foundations of the global economy.
1:56From NPR, I'm Juana Summers.
2:07It's Consider This from NPR. Here is a dramatic statistic. Worldwide, the number of children born to the average woman has dropped by more than half since the 1970s, according to the latest United Nations data. NPR's Brian Mann has been exploring the consequences of this change, and he found that it's challenging basic ideas about capitalism. Thinking about something this big, how the world's population is changing, how that's transforming the global economy, is overwhelming. So I want to start really small with just one person, Ashley Ivancho. My degree is in finance, and I work in financial services.
2:46Ivancho is 32, lives in a suburb of Buffalo, New York, and she's built a great career thinking in practical ways about the economy. A few years ago, she and her husband Nick decided it was time to have a baby. Their three-year-old daughter, Sophia, is a joy. But Devancho says they also reached another decision. I don't need another one. I don't want another one. I love having only one child. It is, I think, a very elegant choice because I still feel like I have balance in my life. That choice was deeply personal, but it's also one tiny part of a massive shift. Families across the U.S. and in a lot of other countries are having too few children to maintain a stable population, a trend that's been deepening for decades.
3:27Melissa Carney is an economist at the University of Notre Dame. This demographic issue is poised to potentially remake so much of our society in a way that people just don't seem to be thinking about. To get a sense for how this can play out in a community and a local economy, I traveled to another upstate New York town, Malone, near the U.S.-Canada border. The main street is lined with handsome brick and stone buildings, but many of the storefronts are empty. The decline that you can see started a long time ago. Jeremy Evans is in charge of economic development for Franklin County, which has lost roughly 10 percent of its population.
4:07So few babies are born here, the hospital closed its maternity ward. Sitting in his office, Evans tells me he's worried. Our population will continue to decline. More worrisome to us is the decline in population of younger people. There are actually plenty of jobs in Malone, Evans says. And he thinks more companies would come here, but there aren't enough workers. His biggest economic goal is trying to stabilize and rebuild the population. If you're an entrepreneur and you want to grow and you can't find employees, that can be really, really frustrating. Our number one mission is 18 to 39-year-olds.
4:44A growing number of economists say this could be the future for much of the U.S. In the 1970s, the average American was 28 years old. Now the average is 39. Every expert I spoke to said America's working age population will continue to gray and eventually shrink, a pattern that will accelerate if the U.S. maintains sharp new limits on immigration. Lant Pritchett is a visiting professor at the London School of Economics. It's hard to maintain the dynamism of the economy. I mean, you know, you can't get people to do all kinds of work from electricians to plumbers to everything else. Pritchett says the impact of this population shift would be big, even if it were only hitting the U.S., the world's largest economy.
5:25But families in other G7 countries, the world's other big economies, they're shrinking even faster. I say if you live in Europe or parts of Asia, this is everything. Economists say many of the basic assumptions of modern global capitalism evolved when countries were seeing rapid population growth. Businesses could count on a constant increase in young workers, new consumers, and bigger markets. That helped governments shore up pension and public health programs. But now deaths already outnumber births in at least three of the world's biggest economies, China, Italy and Japan. Pritchett says it's not clear how economies will work as populations age and shrink in more countries.
6:06Hard to tell what's going to happen when things that have never happened before happen. We just don't have any example of countries doing this successfully. The place where this population shift is already happening on an almost unbelievable scale is China, the world's second largest economy. Researchers say over the next two decades, China's working age population will plunge by more than 200 million people. We met Mia Li, who's 20, outside a bustling shopping mall in Beijing. She doesn't have children and she worries motherhood would be expensive and risky. Having children requires financial support, but if the economy goes down, how can you possibly afford to raise them?
6:45In this crowded city, it's hard to see the scale of depopulation and rapid aging already underway. But Li works in China's sagging real estate industry, and she says she's already feeling the change. Housing prices will fall, and the number of homebuyers will decrease as well. Economists say most people around the world still aren't aware of the scale of this population shift, which is overshadowed in most people's lives by short-term concerns, everything from unemployment and inflation to trade wars and immigration. And some experts, including Claudia Golden at Harvard University, say they're not worried about the impact of an aging, shrinking population on the world's economy.
7:23I am not worried about that. Scarcity is everywhere. Trade-offs are everywhere. There is no optimal birth rate. Golden thinks much of the concern about population is a backlash against high rates of immigration and the empowerment of women. But a growing number of economists think the impacts of these demographic changes will grow. Melissa Carney at Notre Dame worries the world faces a future where the cost of having kids, everything from lost career opportunities to high daycare prices, will encourage more couples to opt out of parenting altogether. other. The more we become a society that's moving away from one oriented towards children, then the cost of having kids go up and the benefits of remaining childless and pursuing a childless life, the expectations of the workforce, all of that pushes towards amplifying the trend we're already on.
8:14After talking to economists all over the world about this population shift, I wanted to check in again with Ashley Abancho, the financial planner and young mom in Buffalo, New York. She doesn't think families will get bigger again. Couples and women just think differently now about their lives and careers, Ivancho says. And that means fewer kids. Today, there are options. We have education. We have the ability to make our own choices in life. Motherhood is not the only option for us anymore. And that's OK. Ivancho says the economy and whole societies may have to adapt to what for many families is a new version of normal.
8:53NPR's Brian Mann. This story is part of a broader NPR reporting project looking at the causes and implications of the global trend towards smaller families. You can find a link to the series in the episode notes. This episode was produced by Paige Waterhouse and Connor Donovan with audio engineering by Jimmy Keighley. It was edited by Andrea DeLeon and Courtney Dorning. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan.
9:24It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Juana Summers.
From the publisher
Experts say a rapidly aging and gradually shrinking population in the world's wealthiest countries could force sweeping changes in people's lives, causing many to work longer before retirement, making it harder for business owners to find employees and destabilizing eldercare and health insurance programs.
This story is part of NPR's Population Shift series.
For sponsor-free episodes of Consider This, sign up for Consider This+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Email us at considerthis@npr.org.
This episode was produced by Paige Waterhouse and Connor Donevan, with audio engineering by Jimmy Keeley. It was edited by Andrea de Leon and Courtney Dorning. Our executive producer is Sami Yenigun.
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