Hostage's brother-in-law: we haven't matured enough as a region to coexist peacefully

0:00Phase one of a 20-point peace plan between Israel and Hamas brokered by President Trump is underway. I dreamed of this night. It's been a long journey. That was Middle East Envoy Steve Witkoff. He, Jared Kushner, and Ivanka Trump addressed crowds in Tel Aviv Saturday night, ahead of the exchange of Israeli hostages for Palestinian prisoners and detainees. Throughout the remarks, the crowd was thanking them and cheered one name specifically and booed another. To Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

0:44But even as President Trump travels to the Middle East to celebrate the deal, there's still a lot of uncertainty for Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank. Here's NPR's Anas Bhabha in Gaza. I walk through Gaza City now, and what was yesterday filled with airstrikes and tanks and everything from the Israelis is now slowly welcoming its own people back. It feels like I'm witnessing a place being born again. Israeli troops have pulled back within Gaza, and Palestinians there were told they are free to return to their homes. But in reality, many are returning to rubble. Even still, Gazans remain hopeful.

1:23Here's Baba again. Men returned first, searching for what's left. Some mark the dirt now for tents. Others, they cleared the rubble for barely standing homes here, just to spend the night inside. They are simply glad that there is some walls are still standing. On every corner there is reunion, silent embraces, dust-covered faces pressed together. The joy of surviving here doesn't erase the grief, yes, but for a moment it holds closer. Israel erased and demolished most of the city, to be honest, but there is entire blocks now. Looks like an open grave only depraves. But Gazans here, they don't wait for permission to live.

2:04They carry hope like oxygen. Gaza is not only rubble. Gaza is resilient. Let's zoom out a bit because there are still questions to answer. Who will govern Gaza? How engaged will President Trump continue to be through the next stages of the peace deal? And here's the big one. Do the people, directly affected by the war, see this as the beginning of peace? Consider this. The implementation of a 20-point peace plan is a long road. and both parties have only agreed on the first phase. It's also the end of an excruciating waiting period for both Israeli and Palestinian families. Will the truce hold up once hostages are safely home?

2:47After the break, we'll hear from a family member of one Israeli hostage who's among those expected to return home as part of the negotiations.

3:00From NPR, I'm Andrew Limbong.

3:12It's Consider This from NPR. During the October 7th attacks by Hamas militants in Israel two years ago, over 1 ,200 Israelis were murdered and 251 more were taken hostage into Gaza. Some of those kidnapped were ripped away from families, taken in front of their children. people like Omi Moran, who is one of the 20 living hostages set to head home. We asked Moran's brother-in-law, Moshe Lavi, about what this moment means and his perspective on the possibility of sustained peace. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. What was your reaction to hearing the news that a ceasefire deal was made?

3:50I was in Washington, D.C. last week when the announcement was made. I was there with my sister, Omi's wife, Lishai. We were advocating last week with the Trump administration held a vigil for the October 7th attack with members of the administration, including Secretary of State Marco Rubio. And then the day after the announcement came, it was a moment of joy for many of us who were there. And of course, those families who were in Israel, we gathered together, we put out a statement immediately. I was asked to speak. And so I was the one who was transmitting the message. And immediately after the White House, tweeted it and shared it widely.

4:37And then we went to process it together. And there, where we gather in the house of one of the members of the Hostage Missing Families for him in D.C., Secretary of Commerce, Howard Lutnik, joined us with his wife. And at some point he called President Trump, put him on speaker. We were able to hear directly from the president that he reached a deal. We thanked him and congratulated him, reminded him as well of the 48th hostages who will need to be returned as part of the deal. We were so grateful for him taking the time to speak with us. And then the night continued and we rushed back to Israel.

5:17the following day. And we arrived here on Friday and since then began processing everything and preparing for Marie's arrival, hopefully tomorrow. You actually, you spoke to my colleague back in September, 2024. This was after the bodies of six hostages were recovered from a tunnel in Gaza. I want to play you a bit of what you said. Here's the tape. We'll keep holding the international community accountable. We'll keep going to the media and share our story. We have to for them, for the hostages who can still be rescued. And I hope this will change. This terrible news that we receive will change the equation.

5:55It's been over a year since you said that, and it appears as if things have substantially changed. The remaining hostages are coming home. I guess my question is, did you think this moment would come? I was always hopeful. We can't operate and advocate without hope leading us. otherwise we'll focus on the despair and so I was always hopeful that something will happen that we will return but at the same time I was realistic that this is a very complex process negotiating with a terrorist organization and of course having other priorities within a larger conflict that at times override the priority we have which is the redemption of our captives returning them home and I'm happy we've reached that point although I've yet to see it I still can't believe it's going to happen because it seems so far-fetched if you've asked me two weeks ago that will happen so quickly but then again it is supposed to happen tomorrow morning and we're excited for it but trying to be as cautious as possible because we were disappointed so many times before Is it one of those things you're not going to believe it until he's in your arms?

7:11Exactly. Until Omri hugs Lishai, until he embraces their two daughters, Ronin and Alma, four years old and two and a half years old. Yeah. I was wondering about his kids. What have you been telling them? How are they doing, first off? You know, it has been very difficult for them. They survived October the 7th, and they were held captive themselves alongside my sister Lishai at gunpoint by Hamas terrorists who barge into their home, grouped them with another family, invaded their kibbutz, and they've been managing to grow up and become extraordinary two girls. Very proud of them. And especially Roni, who is four years old, and so she remembers a lot of what happened that day, the trauma carries with her.

8:03And she also remembers Omri very well. we shared with them cautiously that we had successful meetings in the US and that Omri might be returning soon we don't know exactly when but that's the way to transmit the message and hopefully they begin processing it and it seems like they're very excited about the possibility of meeting their father again and having a father figure in the household Yeah, it's been two years of waiting. What have you been telling them about Omri to just sort of keep his memory, keep his life alive in their heads and hearts? with roni it wasn't an issue to be honest she remembers him so well i'm very impressed by how much memory she's able to store as a four years old she remembers of being on his bicycle with him she remembers wishing good night to the stars almost every night he would take her out and they will wish good night to the world and she still insists on that ritual with my sister Lishai she remembers specific moments and and laughters and his embrace she speaks to him and all the time dreams of him with Alma it's a different story because she was only six months old and so she doesn't remember Omri she doesn't know who he is beyond the poster as she grew older over the past two years we try to explain to her it's not only a poster it's her father he's a living person he used to be present in the house that they used to live in in Nakhalos and shared a bit about who he is and what he was for for Roni as a father figure and she's very excited to meet him because she never really is as like she never met him in a way she can remembers.

10:07So we'll see how that's going to unfold in the next couple of days and weeks. I'm sure it's going to be a process for them to digest having Omri back, hopefully, and will be a process for Omri as well to be in a place of love and care after enduring so much suffering, torture, abuse, starvation, deprivation of water, sanitary condition, any basic human rights. And it will be a long process of healing, but I'm confident we'll be able to master that after we mastered the last two years and after he managed to survive in captivity of one of the harshest and most brutal terrorist organization in the world.

10:53I want to ask you about the bigger picture here. Do you believe, given the development over the past few days, that there can be sustained peace? I think in the long term, yes. I also believe that through terrible crises, conflicts, a more lasting peace can be achieved, just like we saw in other cases in Europe, especially a continent that needed two devastating wars so that countries could coexist together, recognize each other after centuries of fighting. I hope that will be eventually the case with the Palestinians in the wider region. I don't believe it's going to be in my lifetime, sadly.

11:41I think we have not matured enough as a region to coexist peacefully long term. But I'm sure eventually this conflict will be resolved. I wish those involved in the conflict realized that it's better to resolve it now and avoid unnecessary bloodshed, making compromises, recognize each other's rights and aspirations. But I don't think we're there, I'm afraid. But President Trump did lay out a foundation for a wider regional arrangement that is better than the one that existed before October the 7th, in my opinion. and the possibility of reducing friction in the wider region, incorporating other countries in the Abraham Accords, and hopefully seeing Gaza rising from the rubble to become a more sustainable place for the Palestinians, but also for us Israelis, because between 2005 after the disengagement plan and until October 7th, we allowed a terrorist base to grow just beyond the border, And that was unacceptable as someone who grew up in steroid and endured terrorism throughout my life.

12:52It was an unacceptable condition. That was Moshe Lavi, brother-in-law of Israeli hostage in Gaza, Omri Muran. Moshe Lavi, thank you so much for your time. Thank you. This episode was produced by Erica Ryan with audio engineering by Hannah Glovna. It was edited by Ahmad Dahman and Sarah Robbins. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan.

13:16It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Andrew Limbong.