How does diplomacy work during a military deadlock?

0:00It's Consider This where every day we go deep on one big news story. The war with Iran is in a deadlock. American warships have redirected more than 40 vessels in their ongoing blockade of Iranian ports, according to U.S. Central Command. On Sunday, a U.K. maritime watchdog set a cargo ship near the Strait of Hormuz was attacked by small boats. And Iranian state media has published warnings like this one transmitted to vessels in the area.

0:41On Sunday evening, President Trump said on social media that the U.S. would attempt to help neutral ships leave the strait starting Monday. As for peace talks, there is no permanent ceasefire. The newest proposal is from Iranian negotiators. This past week, they submitted a 14-point response to a previous U.S. proposal to end the conflict, and state media says the U.S. has responded. President Trump was vague when asked by reporters about the proposal on Friday. So they want to make a deal, but I'm not satisfied with it, so we'll see what happens. The president has oscillated between comments like that one and threats to resume the American bombing campaign if he does not get a deal.

1:23I mean, do we want to go and just blast the hell out of him and finish him forever? Or do we want to try and make a deal? Those are the options. Do you want to go blast the hell out of him? I'd prefer not. On a human basis, I'd prefer not. But that's the option. All this is complicated negotiations, which the U.S. and Iran are holding through intermediaries. Consider this. A diplomatic solution will be critical in bringing the Iran war to an end. So how do leaders try to negotiate with countries they're in conflict with?

2:05From NPR News, I'm Emily Fang.

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3:21It's Consider This from NPR. Suzanne DiMaggio is an expert on diplomacy with U.S. adversaries. She's a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, where she's conducted unofficial negotiations with countries that have no diplomatic relations with the United States, like North Korea and Iran. Welcome. Glad to be with you. Thanks for having me. So both the U.S. and Iran have indicated they think they're winning this conflict. How would you characterize the current state of peace talks with Iran? Well, I would say right now we are in a stalemate, but the Iranians have now put forward a new proposal, which I think seems like a new opening.

4:03They had been assisting that the lifting of the U.S. naval blockade in the Strait of Hormuz was a precondition for any return to talks. But in this latest proposal, they appear to have dropped this precondition, and now they're instead proposing a 30-day period to negotiate a permanent end to the war. And I think that's what's important. They just don't want a temporary ceasefire. They want a permanent end. I think what it boils down to is this. The Iranians want a real negotiation with the understanding that both sides will have to make concessions. sessions. In other words, the unconditional surrender that President Trump has been seeking is not likely to happen anytime soon.

4:46This sounds like progress then. I think it could be progress as long as the U.S. sees it that way. If they hold on to President Trump's wish for some magical thinking that the Iranians are going to come to the table and concede on everything, that's just not going to happen. Where does the U.S. then go from here? I think there's a potential way forward here, and that would be for the U.S. to announce the end of a blockade. And the Iranians, in turn, or perhaps simultaneously, if that could be negotiated, would declare the strait as open and commit to the negotiating process. As you mentioned, there's no direct talks between U.S.

5:31and Iranian negotiators. They're going through diplomats from Pakistan, Oman in some cases. In the past, is there any way you can talk about perhaps some of the creative ways you've employed to get the two countries, the U.S. and Iran, talking, even though they cannot have face-to-face conversations? It's a very good question. One way that I would recommend is what I would call secret talks about talks. and these days it's very hard to do anything in secret, but I think it can be done. Before the JCPOA was reached... This was a nuclear agreement between the UBIS and Iran. That's right. There were a series of secret talks that were convened mainly in Oman and this was an opportunity for the Iranians and Americans to get together quietly without the glare of cameras, without that pressure to talk about what would be an acceptable set of parameters for the talks and what are the expected outcomes.

6:33Also to clarify intentions. And I think that went a long way towards establishing some degree of trust, but also a very realistic roadmap for getting there. That's missing at the moment. So that would be my suggestion. The Trump administration engaged in something similar with the North Koreans that I was also involved in. So this is a tried and true method to really get to direct discussions with an adversary. There have been proposals for U.S. and Iranian officials to meet in Islamabad and Pakistan, but those have been called off. Was that a mistake? I don't necessarily think that was a mistake, because if you remember, the context of that was quite actually weird.

7:22President Trump called for the talks, said they were going to happen, but in actuality, the Iranians never agreed to it. And I think one of the reasons is a high degree of distrust. The Iranians want to have a framework in place first, and then meet using that framework as the basis for negotiations. So they want to proceed on an action-for-action basis to build confidence. And this is due to the distrust resulting from the surprise attacks in June 2025 and then in February 2026, which occurred while diplomatic talks were underway. So the Iranians are very wary. They don't want to walk into that trap again.

8:09Suzanne DiMaggio, she's a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Thank you. It's my pleasure. Thanks. This episode was produced by Henry Larson. It was edited by Sarah Robbins and Tim B. Armias. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan.

8:38It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Emily Fang.

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