How to really listen in today's America

0:00For most of this year, we have been bringing you weekly reporters notebook segments, and the goal has been pretty simple, to help explain how we do our jobs. And that's felt like an important thing to do, not because we want to sit here and talk about ourselves, but because we know just how much trust in journalism and journalists has eroded in recent years. We wanted you to hear us walk through the choices we make and the things we prioritize when we're out in the world trying to report the news and bring it to you. The segment is continuing, but this is going to be my last reporter's notebook for a while, because after this weekend, I am shifting over to host All Things Considered on the weekdays.

0:36This week's reporter's notebook comes at a moment when we're all thinking about the deep divides in our country, how hard it is just to talk to each other and listen to each other. And really, that is the most important thing that reporters do, right? We listen to stories, and then we tell them. And no one at NPR listens better than national political correspondent Don Gagne. Here's just one example of how Don connects with voters. He was in Monroe, Louisiana. It was a Trump event at the end of his first term. And people have been waiting outside in line for 8, 10, 12 hours. And they finally let us in.

1:12And we're walking in. And there's a guy there who's a volunteer. And he's telling people, yellow tickets up there, red tickets down here. And as I walked past him, I said, can you tell me about this place? You know, I meant the arena. And this guy, he said, well, I saw Elvis in here once. And, you know, if you can't do something with that, like you got to turn in your microphone. Luckily for us, Don has not put down his microphone. Consider this. In a divided country, it is increasingly difficult for reporters to build trust and engage with a wide range of people. And that is why it is important to find ways to meet them where they are.

2:03It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Scott Detrow.

2:15It's Consider This from NPR. NPR correspondent Don Gagne is the master of finding voters of all political stripes, earning their trust, and getting them to talk to him. Always I try to be approachable. I try to be non-threatening. You're just looking for a way to break the ice and start a conversation. And it's not always walking up to somebody on the street. Sometimes I'm sitting on, you know, the outdoor patio at a little, you know, family restaurant in some town, and there'll be people at the tables around me. If there's an opportunity, You know, if you make any eye contact, maybe you ask them a question about the town.

2:57Maybe you ask them what you should order off the menu. You know, is the perch from Lake Erie good? You know, the batter fried perch. And then you start a conversation. And then I always, you know, let them know what I'm in town for. Invariably, they say, oh, where are you from? And then that gives you an opportunity to tell them what you're up to. And sometimes those conversations turn into interviews and they never had that awkward. I got to walk up to that person and ask them if I can interview them. And then you go places in the conversation that maybe you didn't expect to go to. And then those things will give your story like an unexpected little piece of color or something.

3:40Can you tell me more about those moments when somebody does finally relax or trust you just enough to tell you something you didn't even ask? and what you learn from that. Yeah, it's, I mean, it's usually, you know, with somebody who has already opened up to you a little bit and decided they're willing to talk to you. So, so that's, that's the key right there. But, but when you talk to them a little longer, you might find out something about their family that you didn't even ask, or something about their job or their job situation that you didn't even ask. And sometimes that's all you need to hear.

4:18And it tells you more about them. Sometimes it leads to a follow-up question that somehow does relate to the campaign that you're covering, that helps you understand why they are voting or why they are thinking about voting or why they're undecided as they process all of the issues. It'll give you insight into that process. And that's a really important thing to get. You know, I mentioned we're all thinking a lot about, especially the last couple of weeks, just the way the country has gotten so much more polarized. It is no secret that a lot of conservatives just don't trust the media anymore.

4:57And I'm wondering in that environment, have these interactions, have these interviews changed in any noticeable way for you? It's gotten harder to get people to talk. I can just say that flat out. If I want to get a half a dozen good conversations that somehow kind of represent a certain spectrum of thoughts, the kind of things that we see in polling, I have to talk to more people in order to get people who will agree to do a quick interview. And a lot of that is because they just, they don't trust a reporter and they don't feel there's anything to be gained from talking to a reporter. The other thing that I've noticed, and this goes back probably 15 years, but it keeps increasing, is people have talking points in their head.

5:54And maybe they got those talking points from social media. Maybe they got it from their television news channel of choice, whatever it is. But it's when you talk to, you know, five or six people and three of them give you the exact same answer in kind of the exact same way. That's frustrating. And look, it's not that these three people wouldn't have agreed with one another, but like the way they said it feels like it came right from some pundit on television. What to you is the journalistic value of having all of these conversations? How do they shape the way that you think about whatever you're covering?

6:31and how do you kind of, as a reporter trying to make sense of the world, process all the interviews that you do? Yeah, I can tell you one thing. The more somebody wants to be interviewed, the less I want to talk to them. If somebody's like, why don't you talk to me? Why don't you talk to me? I'm like, I'm okay. I'm good. I'm going to kind of just work the room here because I don't want somebody who's rehearsed and who clearly has an agenda that they want to get to me and that they want to get out. Again, I just want to have a conversation. These conversations, when I find out where a person works, how old they are, how long they've had this job, what community they live in, if they have kids, grandkids, elderly parents, grandparents, these all kind of fill out a story for them, right?

7:32And then you can apply their political beliefs to their life. And then you can take all of that, and then it just gives you a different context for hearing about their political beliefs. And ultimately, when I talk to people, I don't care how they're voting. I just want to know why. So last question, Don. I'm in D.C., you're in Detroit. We're talking remotely. If you had been the voter that I was interviewing, where would you have preferred this interview take place? Where would you have wanted to be Don Gagné, man of the street, and have this conversation? You know, the Detroit Tigers are starting an afternoon game about one mile from where I sit.

8:16So, you know, we could have picked a nice spot out in center field and had a conversation. Maybe we'll scrap this and I'll fly out and we'll do it that way. Don Gagne, thank you so much for explaining how you do your job every day. It's a pleasure. Thanks for asking. That was NPR national political correspondent Don Gagne. This episode was produced by Kira Joaquim. It was edited by Adam Rainey. Our executive producer is Sam Yannigan.

8:46Let's consider this from NPR. I'm Scott Detrow.