President Trump is fighting homelessness. Some worry his approach hurts veterans.

0:00It's Consider This, where every day we go deep on one big news story. Today, how the Trump administration is addressing homelessness among veterans. Nearly 750 ,000 people are homeless in the United States, including more than 30 ,000 military veterans. That's according to the most recent government data. President Trump wants to see those numbers come down and signed an executive order to make that happen. The Trump administration is changing federal policy when it comes to handling people who are homeless and living on the streets or in encampments. The new policy reverses putting people in housing first.

0:35Trump's approach favors placing homeless veterans under involuntary or institutional care, like a guardianship, against their will. But advocates for homeless vets worry what that can mean for the people they serve. Rather than make it something traumatic, we're forcing you into it. Let outreach workers like us build the relationship. Consider this. As the Trump administration issued an aggressive executive order targeting homeless people, advocates fear what that will mean for homeless veterans.

1:07From NPR, I'm Scott Detrow.

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2:07It's consider this from NPR. More than 30 ,000 U.S. military veterans are homeless, though that number has gone down in the past decade, according to the latest government data. The Trump administration has promised new housing for vets, but President Trump also issued an executive order that aggressively targets homeless people and veterans advocates fear that includes vets. And P.R.'s Quill Lawrence rode along with some street outreach workers in Long Beach, California, and sent us this report.

2:36Quil Lawrence:Veronica Hood with the group U.S. Vets is loading up with hygiene kits and some hot meals, key tools for doing outreach to homeless vets. I'm so sorry. The truck stereo starts blaring. My phone just automatically connects. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Old school flock of seagulls. Wow. Pedro's like, stop. Turn this off. Make it stop. That's Pedro Harigi, her partner today. My name's Pedro Harigi. I serve two tours in Iraq. They're both veterans, with years of military service between them, and at this point, about as many years doing street outreach. So the first veteran we're going to go meet, his name is...

3:16Kurt. Curtis. Curtis.

3:18Quil Lawrence:And they have a formula, a list of known homeless vets by name, and a philosophy called Housing First, where they try to get the vet indoors, and then after that tackle whatever other problems he or she has. And without sharing too much information, that's his first name. 87-year-old man. Yep. Navy veteran. Okay. And... 87, wow. Yes. You heard that right. We're looking for an 87-year-old vet living in his truck. What's your guess about how long he's been on the street? It's hard to say because he keeps us different dates. Yeah, I think it's been at least 20 years. I don't think, I think that after he got his divorce and he lost his housing, it's just not been consistent housing since then.

4:02What's he driving around? It's a Dodge truck, maroon color. I can't, I don't know.

4:07Quil Lawrence:And that's where he sleeps or? That's his whole livelihood. He switches around so we might have to search for him a bit. U.S. vets, the group they work with, has a bed lined up for him. And it doesn't sound hard, right, to convince an 87-year-old man that even temporary housing is better than living in his truck. But he's reluctant. I think he might think he'd be a burden on people. So he really just wants to do it on his own. And what proud man or vet wants to be a burden on anybody, right? Harigi and Hood say it can take months or a year of dropping by with coffee or a hot meal to get from hostility to the trust that will lure a veteran off the street.

4:47Quil Lawrence:So you guys are like these experts in convincing people to let you know. Yes. We're experts in building relationships. We build relationships and then we use whatever we can to get the veteran the help he needs, you know. It's the same thing, like how I would want Pedro to be treated. I'm sure how he would want me to be treated. And here's the issue that they're talking around, maybe to avoid the politics. President Trump made an executive order last year titled Ending Crime and Disorder on America's Streets. It leans heavily toward institutionalizing homeless people against their will. This winter, NPR obtained a proposal following up on the executive order that would include veterans in that plan.

5:26Quil Lawrence:It's called Safe Harbor. Then in March, the VA put out a memorandum of understanding with the Justice Department about state court guardianships for veterans. We have veterans, not homeless, just veterans who are in our facilities. They have no family. That's VA Secretary Doug Collins speaking at the National Coalition for Homeless Veterans annual conference last month. They have no representation and they really are not in a position to actually take, make competent choices for their own health care. Collins rejected the idea that VA is going to start bringing homeless veterans into treatment against their will.

6:01Quil Lawrence:He said the deal with the DOJ is just for vets stranded in VA hospitals. The court will find somebody in the community, not a VA employee, not a VA attorney, will then represent that veteran with the respect to their medical well-being, moving them along, getting them the health care that they need. Collins says Safe Harbor, still just a proposal, was leaked. And he accused the lead Democrat on the House Veterans Affairs Committee, Mark Tucano, of distorting it. And somebody in our building leaked it to the Hill. And guess what? But Representative Takano happily put out information that wasn't correct.

6:38But when it came out that we were attacking homeless and going after homeless, I wanted to puke. I've got veterans who are sitting in hospitals who can't make competent choices for themselves to get better care and the next level care. We're helping them do that. The attorney general agreed with us on this.

6:54Quil Lawrence:Takano told NPR he doesn't believe the VA secretary's claim that Safe Harbor is just a proposal. Takano says his staff have compiled lists of cases where VA is asking courts to put homeless veterans under guardianship and strip them of their rights. Several veterans advocate groups have expressed similar concerns. Well, are you guys ready? Yeah. Okay. I'm going to ask him if it's okay. Back in Long Beach, our two outreach workers have found Curtis Irvin. He's sitting in his pickup, which is pretty full of stuff. He's got a beard gone mostly white and hair sticking out under a worn Oakland Raiders cap.

7:29Quil Lawrence:He's happy to see them. I was in engineering. Irvin served in the Navy just after the Korean War. I was an engine, a diesel mechanic. And on the ship, that means you're everything, you're an engineering. What ship were you on? The last ship I was aboard was used as Bainbridge, a nuclear power destroyer. Wow. So what year were you born? 1938. My goodness, you look good. I've been trying. Wow. And if I get rid of this beard, I keep telling myself I want to be better because I never want a beard this long. But it keeps the young women away from me. Well, that's the main purpose of a beard. Yeah. Do you mostly stay in your truck?

8:12Right now I'm in the truck. For the last two, three years I've been dancing from hospital to hospital because I hurt my back and my hip.

8:21Quil Lawrence:And I finally got out because they tried to keep me. He says he's been bouncing between hospitals for years, that and his truck. And he honestly can't remember the last time he had a home. But Veronica Hood seems to have built a rapport, and Irvin says he'll be here tomorrow to go with her to the hospital and then get a roof over his head. Okay, and tomorrow he's going to follow me, you're going to follow in the truck, and you guys are going to meet me at the Welcome Center. We're going to park it there, and you're going to go to the hospital. Okay, it sounds good. Okay, I'll see you tomorrow.

8:54Okay. Right here? Right here. Okay.

8:57Quil Lawrence:Hey, it was great to meet you. All right. Good luck tomorrow. Okay. All right. See you later. All right. Thank you. Oh, that's... He's... He's been homeless for a long time, but he's new to this area, right? Oh, yeah. Driving back, Hood and Harigi say they know some homeless people are a danger to themselves and maybe others. But for the most part, they wouldn't want to see vets forced into treatment. As you saw with Irvin, it could be both beneficial or it could be extremely traumatic. Rather than make it something traumatic where we're forcing you into it, let outreach workers like us build the relationship.

9:37Now he's saying, yeah, I'm going to meet you guys tomorrow and we're going to go.

9:40Quil Lawrence:I called to ask and Curtis Irvin came in the next day. And he's now in housing for the first time in who knows how many years. Quill Lawrence, NPR News, Long Beach, California.

9:53This episode was produced by Tyler Bartleman, Catherine Fink. It was edited by Andrew Sussman and Tinbeet Armias. Our interim executive producer is Courtney Dornick.

10:06It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Scott Detrow.

10:17Every episode of It's Been a Minute, NPR's What's Happening in Culture podcast starts by asking three questions. Who? How? Why now? If the culture's asking it, we're talking about it. At NPR, we stand for your right to be curious and indulge your cultural curiosity. Follow It's Been a Minute wherever you get your podcasts, and we'll break down the zeitgeisty topics that are filling your feed. This week on Up First from NPR News, President Trump is at the G7 in France and is supposed to sign a peace deal with Iran. That deal, if it happens as planned, will have big effects on the global economy and more, and we will track the changes as they unfold.

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