Sen. Ron Johnson blames state and local leaders for Alex Pretti’s killing

0:00Midnight, January 30th. That is when funding for the federal government runs out. We've all been here before, many, many times, everyone waiting and watching for Congress to come to an agreement on a continuing resolution to keep money flowing into the government. Remember last year? I'm saying that Congress, with the help of the White House right now, is not doing its job since they are now barreling toward a shutdown if they can't agree on a spending deal by midnight tonight. Or remember back in 2021? Well, the clock is ticking. The threat of a government shutdown is looming right now if a short-term spending bill isn't approved.

0:37And let's go even further back. 2018. In just an hour, the federal government will partially shut down. But this time feels different. Because there was a deal. The vote in the Senate this week was supposed to be just a formality. That was until immigration enforcement officers shot and killed Alex Preddy on the streets of Minneapolis. If Republicans refuse to work with us to rein in ICE and to end the violence, they're telling the American people they're choosing to protect ICE over choosing to protect people's safety. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer stood on the floor Thursday challenging the funding that has been set aside for the Department of Homeland Security, even though his Senate Democrats do support the rest of the spending package.

1:21Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of California told NPR's Steve Inskeep how ICE operations must change. I'm not prepared to spend another dime on ice unless there's just a massive set of reforms. Consider this. Democratic resistance to the immigration enforcement operation in Minnesota could result in a partial government shutdown. With hours left, can lawmakers even reach a deal? And will Democrats even get the reforms they want?

1:52From NPR, I'm Elsa Chang.

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2:19It's Consider This from NPR. Unlike his Democratic colleagues in the Senate, Wisconsin Republican Ron Johnson doesn't think that DHS funding should even be pulled into the battle over the immigration enforcement operation in Minnesota. Johnson says he does want an investigation into the shooting of Alex Preddy, but not at the expense of government funding. I asked Senator Johnson if he thinks ICE even needs reforms. Well, what I agree is that we needed to secure a border. What I believe is that what we're dealing with right now is the enormous mess created by President Biden and Democrats who opened up our border, allowed millions of people to flood in this country, where ICE is doing enforcement actions, just like they've always done under the Obama administration and the Biden administration, where they're doing these enforcement actions and local police are cooperating.

3:11There's no violence. There's no problem. We're just enforcing the law. And the problem in Minneapolis is we have a governor and a mayor who are resisting. You don't think that ICE needs any reforms then? There should be no changes on the federal government side when it comes to immigration agents. When you ask that question, when Democrats focus on that, they're focusing on the wrong problem. The root cause of this problem is the border. They opened up the millions of people, including criminals, that they've allowed to fund this country. And now law enforcement has to take care of that problem.

3:43So what changes do you think need to be seen for law enforcement to better take care of this problem that you have identified, that you have characterized? The first change was we secured the border. It has to remain secure. The second change is there are people that need to be apprehended because they're criminals, murderers, rapists, sex, human, and drug traffickers that need to be apprehended and either jailed or deported. And that right now is what the sanctuary cities and people like Mayor Fry and Governor Walz are resisting and that have led to the tragedy. Had there not been an organized effort to resist those law enforcement actions, those two individuals in Minneapolis would still be alive.

4:21President Trump has tried to shake up the leadership for the federal immigration crackdown in Minneapolis. He's replaced the Border Patrol official Greg Bovino with Border Czar Tom Homan. Homan said today that he is going to, quote, fix the situation there. Do you believe it is possible to fix the situation in Minneapolis with this change of leadership? If Governor Walz and Mayor Fry would cooperate with ICE rather than resist them, rather than send people into harm's way to create these types of martyrs, yeah, I think it can be fixed. Again, I personally, I want to target the criminals. I don't want ICE targeting other people who are peer working and contributing to society.

5:00But there are a lot of criminals. There are a lot of criminals that have been let in that need to be apprehended and jailed and deported. OK, you keep shifting blame to the mayor in Minneapolis and the governor in Minnesota. Can you tell me specifically what you need to see from that? Well, what do you need to see from them that's specifically to fix the situation in Minneapolis? Do what other governors and mayors have done. Cooperate with ICE. Cooperate with federal law enforcement when they're carrying out completely legal enforcement actions. cooperate with them. Don't resist. Don't send to your citizens their harm's way to resist them and protest against them.

5:38Cooperate. When you arrest an illegal immigrant, hold them for detention. And what are state and local officials supposed to do if they see federal immigration agents doing unlawful actions, such as fatally shooting people when it's not in self-defense, when there is no imminent danger in that situation. There is no weapon being wielded right in the face of the federal agent. Their open borders, their lack of cooperation, created the circumstance for that tragedy. So they should have cooperated on the front end. Right now, there will be a thorough investigation in terms of exactly what happened.

6:19And I'm just saying I've got a great deal of sympathy for those ICE officers who are under constant threat. How would you like to be in law enforcement? And all of a sudden, you've got people who are opposed to what you're trying to do, showing up. You don't know whether they're armed, whether they're just brandishing cameras. You don't know. You're going to be on hair trigger alert. And that's what caused that tragedy. There are still legal requirements for when any law enforcement officer can use lethal force. It's not just if they don't know if the person is armed or not. Last question, going back to the federal spending package.

6:51Democrats, at least at the very least, they just want to split DHS funding from the rest of the spending package to keep the government open. Do you agree with that idea? Then they will never fund DHS. So it's a ploy. I mean, they'll do it. They'll convince people like you that, oh, they're just being very reasonable. This is a way that they can defund DHS just like they want to defund the police to disastrous consequences. So I can't support that effort. Republican Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin, thank you very much for joining us. Have a good day. Take care. That was Ron Johnson, Republican Senator of Wisconsin.

7:26This episode was produced by Brianna Scott. It was edited by Christopher Intagliata and Kelsey Snell. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan.

7:39It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Elsa Chang.