Sexual misconduct on Capitol Hill: The problem that won't go away

0:00Lisa Desjardins:A lot has been said about me today through anonymous allegations. That is Representative Eric Swalwell of California speaking in a video message on Friday. The anonymous allegations he's referring to are allegations of sexual misconduct from at least four women. These allegations of sexual assault are flat false. They are absolutely false. They did not happen. They have never happened. And I will fight them with everything that I have. Swalwell was considered one of the top candidates in California's crowded governor's race. But on Sunday, after the allegations were reported, after key backers of his campaign started to distance themselves, Swalwell suspended his campaign.

0:42I do not suggest to you in any way that I'm perfect or that I'm a saint.

0:46Lisa Desjardins:I have certainly made mistakes in judgment in my past. But those mistakes are between me and my wife. Consider this. Swalwell is the latest member of Congress to be accused of sexual misconduct. How common is a story like this?

1:06From NPR, I'm Mary Louise Kelly.

1:10Lisa Desjardins:This week on the NPR Politics Podcast. In Iran, President Trump is both escalating and de-escalating, pausing strikes on energy sites claiming Iran wants to make a deal, but also moving troops to the region. We unpack what we know about where those troops are headed and how talks are playing out behind closed doors. This week on the NPR Politics Podcast. Listen on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:41Lisa Desjardins:It's Consider This from NPR. A familiar story is playing out in Washington. A member of Congress is accused of using his or her power to intimidate or pressure a staffer, someone with less standing, less power. The specific story this time, California Democrat Eric Swalwell, who until last night was running for governor of California. Swalwell is accused of sexual misconduct by multiple former staffers. I need to note NPR has not independently confirmed these allegations. The congressman is denying them. We do know Swalwell is far from the first member of Congress to face accusations of sexual misconduct.

2:23Lisa Desjardins:Almost eight years ago, PBS NewsHour congressional correspondent Lisa Desjardins reported on patterns of abuse in Congress. She spoke to former staffers who were working to change the rules around reporting and consequences. Lisa joins me now. Hey there. Hi there. Hi. So let's ground this by starting with the specifics, what we know, what we don't, how we know it about the Swalwell case. This allegation, sexual misconduct that was reporting by the San Francisco Chronicle and other outlets. Just ground us in the facts here.

2:55Mary Louise Kelly:These are striking and very specific accusations. They are alarming. CNN and the San Francisco Chronicle together detailed accusations that they reported from four different women. The one that is the most serious is a woman who is unnamed, but which in both reports they said they checked her story and check that she had conveyed her story to people at the time. And she says that twice, Congressman Swalwell, once when she worked for him and once after, sexually assaulted her. Once she says she was essentially unconscious that they had been drinking beforehand. She didn't remember what happened.

3:32Mary Louise Kelly:The other time she said she protested, she pushed back, and she is accusing him of rape. The other accusations also run the gamut from inappropriate touching, but to include a lot of inappropriate texting, including of nude photos of the congressman, some over Snapchat. Now, the congressman has said, as you reported, that he is innocent, but he has acknowledged some wrongdoing in the past, and he apologized to his wife. He said initially he was going to fight this legally. His lawyers have put out two cease and desist letters to these women, but he has pulled back now from his race for governor.

4:09Mary Louise Kelly:From the race for governor in California.

4:11Lisa Desjardins:Yeah. You have covered Congress for years. How common is a story like this one that we are hearing now about Eric Swalwell?

4:20Mary Louise Kelly:Well, this is an unusual moment in that we now have multiple documented reporting cases reported by esteemed outlets that seem to have done a lot of homework here. Not just Congressman Swalwell, but Republican Texas Congressman, of course, Tony Gonzalez. In reporting about Congressman Gonzalez and now Congressman Swalwell, I have found that digging beneath the surface, it seems like the problem has actually grown again. Has grown again. That's just astonishing. You know, I think what happened after 2018 is we saw a real acknowledging of problems in the halls of power, inequity of power, especially affecting female staffers, not only female staffers.

5:00Mary Louise Kelly:And I think there was a real attempt to address it then. But then I think there has been taking for granted of the idea that this problem has been solved. And there seems to be there has been a growing problem again. That's fascinating. I mean, you're describing this culture of open secrets that I think a lot of us hoped would be shrinking, not growing in the years since the height of the Me Too movement in 2018. The 2018 Me Too movement did change things in Congress. It rewrote the way that accusers, survivors could raise their cases. Before then, really, they had almost virtually no chance of seeing the light of day or even getting any kind of justice for their cause.

5:44Mary Louise Kelly:It was really truly rigged against them. So that was changed, but now the system remains mired in red tape, to say the least. It is very slow. I've talked to staffers who don't trust it. And in fact, I spoke to one congresswoman, Marcy Kaptur, who said her staff does not trust the process. They believe that their accusations are not taken seriously. They're not sure they should raise them. And the system right now, the ethics system, there needs to be due process, but the due process really does sort of a lot of – there's a lot of critics who say it balances too much in favor of protecting the members, giving them sometimes years to answer accusations.

6:20Lisa Desjardins:You know, I wonder, too, obviously, reports of sexual misconduct have been documented in all kinds of offices, Harvey Weinstein and his case being central to the Me Too movement in a very different industry. But I do wonder about the power structure and the specific power dynamics on Capitol Hill. And I guess I'm wondering, you nodded to turnover every two years in the House, but also just that every member of Congress, they're in charge of the rules for their own office, right? Is there a comprehensive system on the Hill to address this?

6:58Mary Louise Kelly:There is to some degree, but there is no one that really has authority over each member of Congress except for themselves and the voters. So think of it as having basically in the House of Representatives 435 separate little kingdoms where the member of Congress really sets the rules for that office place. There is no one that is really forcing them to abide by other standards. There are House rules that they have agreed to abide by, but it is really ultimately the voters. And then to expel a member requires two-thirds power of each chamber. That is the only other lever that could affect a member's livelihood.

7:38Lisa Desjardins:There have been efforts. Most recently, I'm thinking just a month or so ago, Nancy Mace, Republican congresswoman of South Carolina, tried to pass a resolution that, as I understand it, would have forced the House Ethics Committee to make public all reports of allegations against congressional lawmakers, against congressional aides, allegations of sexual harassment, misconduct. That effort failed. Why?

8:05Mary Louise Kelly:Well, it was a complicated effort, actually. It did fail on the House floor. But immediately after that, Nancy Mace went into a committee, the Oversight Committee, and forced through a subpoena to subpoena those exact same records. Now, usually those subpoenas are dealt with rather promptly. They issue these subpoenas. It's a serious matter for a committee to subpoena something. But, you know, I've been texting that committee. They have not issued that subpoena. But Nancy May says she still wants that information. She still will release those names of members of Congress and staff who have, who settled for misconduct in the past.

8:40Mary Louise Kelly:So it was voted down on the floor, but she did push it through committee.

8:45Lisa Desjardins:So to circle us back to Eric Swalwell, what is the conversation as you work sources? How is this playing on Capitol Hill?

8:53Mary Louise Kelly:Well, we have just seen a statement from the House Ethics Committee saying they are investigating Congressman Swalwell. And that is an important step. That is something that is considered to be part of due process on the Hill. However, members can decide to expel Congressman Swalwell, and that conversation is also very robust among Republicans and some Democrats who are saying they will file a motion to expel him, and that could be voted on as soon as this week. So a lot in the air about him and about Congressman Gonzalez, as well as other Democrats. There's another Democrat who faces perhaps penalties in the next two weeks, Congresswoman Sherphillis McCormick over finances and over accusations that she stole COVID money and used it for her campaign.

9:39Lisa Desjardins:Lisa Desjardins of the PBS NewsHour. Lisa, thank you very much for sharing your reporting. You're welcome. This episode was produced by Lina Muhammad and Karen Zamora. It was edited by Courtney Dornay. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan.

10:00Lisa Desjardins:It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Mary Louise Kelly.