The DOJ released the final Epstein files. Where do the survivors go from here?

0:00Millions of documents and thousands of images and videos later, the Justice Department says their review into convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein is done. This review is over. I mean, we reviewed over six million pieces of paper, thousands of videos, thousands, tens of thousands of images. That's Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche speaking to ABC News on Sunday. Last November, Congress passed the Epstein Files Transparency Act, which legally required the DOJ to release all the files with redactions for sensitive information related to victims. That is not exactly what happened. This release included pictures of nude women or possibly girls and the names of victims.

0:42A DOJ spokeswoman subsequently told the New York Times the department was addressing victim concerns and making additional redactions. And Blanche said that Friday's release means the department is now in compliance. On CNN, he dismissed calls for additional prosecutions. There's a lot of horrible photographs that appear to be taken by Mr. Epstein or people around him. but that doesn't allow us necessarily to prosecute somebody. The victims want to be made whole, and so we want that. But that doesn't mean we can just create evidence or that we can just kind of come up with a case that isn't there.

1:19Consider this. Survivors of Epstein's abuse have demanded the release of all files. So where do they go from here?

1:35From NPR, I'm Scott Detrow.

2:10It's Consider This from NPR. Annie Farmer is one of many people who testified in court about Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. She says they sexually abused her when she was 16 years old. And she's also been a leading voice in calling on the Department of Justice to release all records related to Jeffrey Epstein. Now that they're out, we wanted to hear from Annie Farmer again. Things considered. Thanks for having me. You've been vocal about wanting all the documents released. Your sister Maria was one of the first whistleblowers in this case. She made a complaint to the FBI way back in 1996.

2:43It's a complaint that went unacknowledged and uninvestigated for decades. I'm wondering, how does this latest, maybe final release make you feel? I'm feeling really upset. This weekend, as I was sorting through files and people were sending me things, just became aware of how many violations of the law there were in terms of victims' names coming out. As you mentioned, nude photos of girls or young women. It's really disgusting. Look, on one hand, there's pressure to get these documents public. And at the same time, the law made it clear files needed to be fully redacted. And that didn't happen.

3:27The names and images should never have been released. What do you make of that? Honestly, at this point, it's hard not to wonder if this is intentional in some way. It feels like weaponized incompetence. If you see some of these documents where there will be a list of 50 names and one is redacted, you know, there's just no explanation for how it could have been done so poorly. They've had victims' names for a very long time. I don't think this is just about rushing to get this information out. It feels like they want us to give up on transparency, and it's extremely problematic how they've gone about doing this.

4:09I mean, the internet is such a weaponized place at this point. Have you had conversations with other people who have been in your position who have been vocal about this, about what to do at this point when names and pictures are being circulated? I think a lot of people are feeling a bit at a loss of, you know, how to best proceed because it is beyond what any of us had worried about. But what I do feel clear about is the fact that we still believe transparency is important and we're not giving up on demanding that the law be followed. What we're talking about right now is a huge concern. In the bigger picture, in terms of the information released, the new revelations in this trove, what to you was the value of this?

4:59Do you think anything important has been learned? Do you think anything important has been underscored in terms of the scope of what went on? Yes, I think a couple things. One, that victims have been speaking out for a long time and have been, you know, naming names and that, you know, there's clear evidence of very consistent reports over time. But what is not clear is what was done to investigate. I think we see that there was a very strong case in 2006 that the feds were trying to put together. And we know obviously with that sweetheart deal, it didn't unfold the way anyone believes it should have.

5:36But even after that, you can see records of people sharing information and that nothing was done for so long I think is extremely problematic. And you also see just how deep ties were that Epstein had to people in positions of power, wealthy people, people in government. You know, you can just see clearly how that web of power protected him. Given all this, what is your response to Department of Justice officials saying that additional charges for anyone are unlikely at this point? I think that it is really disturbing to know that, for example, you can see Virginia Roberts-Jouffre was providing detailed information about the scopes of these crimes in 2011.

6:25You know, there's depositions that include names of other individuals that she reported. So when they say, you know, the information's not there to pursue charges, I just I would say, you know, what did you do with this information? Where's the evidence of the investigation that shows charges are not warranted? That, I think, is not clear. It's very hard, you know, with so many files and them being so disorganized to see the trail of, you know, what was done to follow up on things. But so far, I think we have a lot more questions about why. You talked to Morning Edition about this last summer, and you told my colleague Layla Faddle something that I wanted to ask you again about.

7:03You said that the evolution of this story, your story in public has left you feeling out of control, like you're not being considered or included. And I'm wondering, has that feeling changed or evolved at all for you over the past six months? You know, I think there have been times when personally I have felt a lot of agency in being able to highlight these, you know, crimes to explain them to others and to highlight the negligence of the government. Right. But I think, you know, a moment like this, again, you know, my own personal information, you know, being date of birth, phone number, things like that leaking out certainly makes me feel out of control.

7:46But I really feel so much worse for those. I had a decision to come forward. And I know there's so many for lots of good reasons that chose not to come forward. And I feel really sick to my stomach just thinking about the fact that because of the way this was handled, they feel so out of control right now. And in some cases, you know, may feel very unsafe because of their circumstances. And so, yeah, I'm just really thinking about those women now. You're a licensed therapist. Yes. I'm wondering how your training has helped you navigate all of this. Well, I think it's been really crucial for me in being able to sort of put into perspective my own reactions to some of this.

8:26You know, there's so many levels of trauma in this story. And it's certainly not just what happened, you know, initially with Epstein and Maxwell. It's really understanding that what's happened with these institutions, it can be just as traumatizing, if not more traumatizing. And so having those conversations, I think, amongst survivors, being able to draw on that and bring some of that information and normalize that, I think, has been very helpful. Given your professional background, given your personal experience in this, I'm wondering what your advice is to other survivors in your situation as this all plays out in a very public way.

9:06I think that it's really important for people to understand that there is a difference between healing and justice in the sense of what can come from the government or from our justice system. Right. That really healing oftentimes is about finding your places where you feel safe. And oftentimes that's in community with others. And so knowing that, you know, there are people that want to support you if you've been through this, being able to name it and speak it and find your people is such an important step towards finding the healing that you deserve. That's Annie Farmer. Thank you so much for talking to us.

9:52Thank you. This episode was produced by Janaki Mehta and Karen Zamora. It was edited by Sarah Handel. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan.

10:05It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Scott Detrow.

10:22That's plus.npr.org.