The reality of voting security in America

0:00Hey, it's Scott Detrow. We have made it to the end of another week. And tomorrow, officially, we will have made it one whole year since Congress voted to eliminate more than a billion dollars budgeted for NPR. PBS, and our stations across the country. We continue to do what we do best, to inform and connect the public because of donations from people like you. We know that a free press doesn't just happen. We, the public, have to protect it. Please join the community of people who power this work. Make a donation today at donate.npr.org. And thank you so much. It's Consider This, where every day we go deep on one big news story.

0:40Today, unpacking President Trump's election claims. Tonight, I'm announcing the immediate declassification and release of critical intelligence, revealing shocking vulnerabilities in our election infrastructure. In a primetime address Thursday night, Trump once again tried to sow doubts about the integrity of U.S. elections. This evidence shows that the election system we have dangerously exposes and really exposes like levels never thought possible to hacking, exploitation and foreign interference. He tried to convince Americans that the election system was vulnerable to fraud. For many years, Americans were blatantly lied to about the security of our election infrastructure, including electronic voting machines and ballot counting systems.

1:32Dishonest almost all. They're vulnerable and they're easily compromised. And people within our government knew that. But the president presented no new evidence of a single fraudulent vote in any election. Instead, the documents largely highlight existing concerns about voting equipment. Susan Greenhall of the left-leaning advocacy group Free Speech for People told NPR she has worked to shine a light on some of the same problems Trump mentioned. Two things can be true at the same time, that we have ignored vulnerabilities in our voting systems for a long time. And there is no evidence that the election was rigged in 2020.

2:13and everything that has been put forth purporting to provide that evidence always falls apart like a cheap suit. Consider this. President Trump has spread disinformation about U.S. elections for years. What do recently declassified documents actually say about election security and what can be done about it?

2:38From NPR, I'm Scott Detrow. On the latest NPR Politics podcast, we separate fact from fiction in President Trump's primetime address on election security. Two things can be true at the same time. We have ignored vulnerabilities in our voting systems for a long time, and there is no evidence the election was rigged in 2020. The truth and the politics behind President Trump's claims about voter fraud on the latest episode of the NPR Politics Podcast. Everyone wants to know if AI is conscious, but consciousness is really hard to define. It's the experience we're having right now. What it is like to eat chocolate or to look at the blue sky.

3:17So how do we know who or what is conscious? Check out the new ways scientists are finding to measure the elusive phenomenon on Shortwave. Listen on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Tanya Mosley, co-host of Fresh Air. When I interviewed the screenwriters of The Invite, Rashida Jones and Will McCormick, they called it a sex comedy that's not about sex. It's about wanting to be seen and heard and valued. Get a peek into how the script came to be on Fresh Air on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

3:57It's Consider This from NPR. To talk through President Trump's claims and the politics around his Thursday night speech, we are joined by political correspondent Ashley Lopez and White House correspondent Franco Ordonez. Hey, Franco. Hi to both of you. Hey there. Hey, Scott. Ashley, I'm going to start with you. The White House also released a number of newly declassified documents about some election topics. You cover elections and voting. What are people in those worlds saying about Trump's speech in these documents? Well, they're saying he didn't really provide any new or old information that proves U.S.

4:28elections were interfered with. Some of the information was already released publicly. Other things have long been known by election security experts. I've heard experts point out that there is evidence of foreign influence in our elections. That is well known. However, influence is a very different thing than interference. I talked to Pamela Smith about this. She's the president and CEO of Verified Voting. She said she's worried about how this all landed with voters who are hearing a lot of this stuff for the first time. So it might sound alarming that we have this document and we have that document, but there wasn't anything new in the documents.

5:00And look, voting experts have been pointing out for years that our voting systems have vulnerabilities. A lot of voting infrastructure around the country is aging. But then she made this really key point, which is that elections have multiple safeguards, including the fact that almost everyone votes with paper ballots. And these ballots are used to audit these systems. So, Ashley, you said that some of these claims and issues were already known. Can we just take one example and walk through that? Sure. OK, so let's go with something that caught my ear last night. President Trump talked about China accessing millions of Americans' voter data.

5:30What should listeners know about that? Yeah, this is a good example of something that was already known. There was U.S. intel back in 2020 that said China had accessed voter registration data from some states. A lot of these documents from the White House were heavily redacted. So we don't really know much else about how China acquired this information. But many states have publicly available voter rolls. Anyone can ask for them. And actually, those White House documents point out that China purchased some of this voter data commercially. Let me jump in here, Scott. I mean, it's not surprising, though, that a country like China would be trying to gather so much of this information about Americans.

6:04But actually, as Ashley pointed out, there's no evidence that those adversaries have been able to change votes or affect an outcome. All right, Franco, now you've hopped into the conversation. Let's talk a bit about the politics here. You know, Trump is not on the ballot this year, but the midterms loom. How do you view the speech from a political lens? I mean, I view it very substantially. I mean, one of the most powerful tools that a president has, a political tool, is his bully pulpit. Trump's using a primetime address that's often saved for the most important and sensitive discussions, such as, you know, making the case for a country going to war.

6:40But Trump did not, for example, use this speech to further explain why the U.S. decided just a few days ago to restart the war with Iran. Instead, as Ashley laid out, this was primarily about rehashing old claims. Especially given that timing. Why do you think President Trump did this? We know voters are focused on things like the economy and this Iran war. What possible political advantage could Trump get by using a high profile platform like this to talk about election security? Yeah. I mean, Trump's been sowing doubt on election system for decades. He also wants to pressure lawmakers to pass his legislation that would overhaul elections, legislation that's been stalled in Congress.

7:19But one other thing, Scott, this speech may also be about redefining the terms of the debate going into the midterms. I mean, voters are very concerned about the economy in Iran, and that's been hurting Trump politically. But election security is something that has energized Trump supporters in the past. So even though many of these claims have already been debunked, Democrats actually risk being drawn into a prolonged back and forth with Republicans on proposals that they think are popular instead of spending that time talking about the economy. Flip side, though, is there a political risk to Trump from dredging up these old election claims and also kind of talking about them in such a conspiratorial way?

7:59Yeah, for sure. I mean, there were a lot of concerns actually ahead of the speech that this could hurt Republicans and make them look out of touch. I mean, many Republicans have been clamoring for a while now that Trump should focus on the economy, especially those Republicans who are running for reelection in swing districts. But Trump has not really heeded those requests, even announcing he would not sign a very popular bill to lower housing costs out of protests, actually, for the party not doing more on this issue. You know, as some lawmakers have said, Trump either doesn't realize or he doesn't care that members of his own party are running in swing districts with a lot of moderate voters.

8:38But as we've reported before, Trump rarely adjusts his message for moderates. Yeah. Ashley, back to you. Franco mentioned that Trump's claims are undermining confidence in elections. Is this something election officials are worried about? I mean, it's what election officials are most worried about. As I mentioned, there are all these safeguards in place to protect our voting systems. Actual interference in the counting of votes is not what keeps election officials up at night. What does is voters not trusting outcomes. And because this wasn't the first time Trump has tried to sow distrust in elections, officials know and are preparing for the fact that this is unlikely to be the last time the president does this.

9:11That is NPR's Ashley Lopez and Franco Ordonez. Thanks to both of you. Thank you. Thank you, Scott. This episode was produced by Vincent Acavino, Caden Mills, and Karen Zamorup, with audio engineering by Ted Meebe. Our director is Jonas Adams. It was edited by Kelsey Snell, Ben Swayze, Christopher Intagliata, and Tinbeat Ermias. It also included reporting from NPR's Miles Parks. Our interim executive producer is Courtney Dornick.

9:39It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Scott Detrow. This is Ira Glass of This American Life. Do you know our show? Okay, well, either way, I'm going to tell you about it. We make stories that hopefully pull you in at the beginning with funny moments and feelings and people in surprising situations, and then you just want to find out what is going to happen and cannot stop listening. That's right. I'm talking about stories that make you miss appointments. This is American Life, wherever you get your podcasts.