The world commits to new climate goals without the U.S.

0:00Wopke Hoekstra:When the Paris Climate Agreement was signed, although it was fraught with controversy, it was seen as a diplomatic achievement and a step in the right direction in the global effort to counter climate change.

0:11Andrew Limbong:I now declare the Paris Agreement for Climate Change open for signature.

0:18Wopke Hoekstra:Famously, John Kerry, who was U.S. Secretary of State at the time, held his granddaughter on his lap while signing the agreement and later addressed the General Assembly.

0:27Andrew Limbong:We will do our part. We will live up to our responsibility to future generations. And together, citizens of the world, we will work to save our planet from ourselves.

0:40Wopke Hoekstra:In the years since, the implementation of the agreement hasn't gone smoothly, especially among some of the countries that are the biggest emitters of greenhouse gases. In June of 2017, during his first term in office, President Trump made this announcement in front of the White House. The United States will withdraw from the Paris Climate Accord. And this past week, President Trump reiterated his stance against climate action. Here he is at the U.N. General Assembly. And I'm telling you that if you don't get away from the green energy scam, your country is going to fail. Consider this. What can other global leaders do when the U.S.

1:24Wopke Hoekstra:is actively opposed, even hostile, to climate action?

1:38Wopke Hoekstra:From NPR, I'm Andrew Limbaugh.

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2:56Wopke Hoekstra:It's Consider This from NPR. At the United Nations this week, more than 100 countries met to discuss commitments to cut pollution by 2035 as part of a global effort to counter climate change. Also at the UN this week, President Trump called climate change, quote, the greatest con job ever perpetrated on the world, and he called green policies a scam. And he said he was worried about Europe. We're joined now by the Climate Commissioner for the European Union, Wilke Hoekstra. Hi, Commissioner. Welcome.

3:26Andrew Limbong:Thank you very much for having me on the show.

3:28Wopke Hoekstra:So let's start with some of the new commitments announced earlier this week to cut pollution levels, to address global warming. What stands out to you?

3:36Andrew Limbong:First of all, it is hugely important that the world continues to make this effort, because frankly speaking, this problem is getting worse before it gets better, right? So if you just look at the sheer impact on our economies, on geopolitics, on the ecosystem we live in, the damage simply is huge. It is imperative that the global community, the world together also tries to fix this.

3:59Wopke Hoekstra:And so what have you heard this week?

4:01Andrew Limbong:We learned, for example, about the Chinese example, which in my view is a step, but at the same time, disappointing in where they land. They're not going to do much more than some 10 % reduction by 2035. And given that they are the largest emitter on the planet responsible for roughly 30 % of global emissions, it would have been hugely important for them to take more responsibility, more leadership and do more.

4:26Wopke Hoekstra:So, Commissioner, help us understand, what are the EU's commitments for 2035?

4:31Andrew Limbong:So our commitment is a range between 66.3 % and 72.5%. To reduce emissions. of reduced emissions compared to 1990, which was our peak year. You always take the peak and then, you know, the percentage that you managed to drive down by 2035. If you were to put into perspective, because I can fully understand that it's hard to assess is this good, is this mediocre, is this bad, this will put us at the top or very near the top of the most ambitious. Great Britain is probably going to have a target that is even higher, But we will come as a close second, I think.

5:09Wopke Hoekstra:How does President Trump's hostility to climate action impact momentum on the world stage?

5:14Andrew Limbong:I think it is diplomatic to basically refrain from trying to be a pundit and analyze his specific speech. But if I zoom out, what I can tell you is that American leadership matters. In, frankly speaking, all matters that we have, whether it's geopolitics, whether it's the economy, or whether it's climate. The U.S. simply is the most formidable player across the globe. You are the number one economy and you are the second largest emitter. So the fact that the U.S. is no longer being part of these conversations is a major blow to international efforts. That's just the reality.

5:50Wopke Hoekstra:So how do you bring the whole world along when the U.S. isn't playing ball?

5:54Andrew Limbong:It makes it more complicated and it makes conversations with China also more complicated. And with all the other large emitters, all the large industrial nations, which we typically call the G20, together responsible for roughly 85 % of global emissions, it does do something with the dynamics. At the same time, the problem is not going to go away, right? The ecosystem, the planet doesn't give a damn whether this is easy or difficult. It's simply warming up. And the impact in terms of droughts, wildfires is basically continuing. And that will have increasingly a very, very significant economic cost.

6:31Andrew Limbong:So forget about all the lingo about saving the planet. This is an economic reality we need to face. Climate action isn't a light switch, right?

6:41Wopke Hoekstra:It's not particularly nimble. Like businesses have invested and there are new market realities. But how do you face the big challenges when you have these big swings in American policy?

6:52Andrew Limbong:So the interesting thing is, when I talk to businesses, whether they're from the US or from Europe or wherever, it is crystal clear to them that the future will be decarbonized. And that if you don't expose yourself to that economy, you will have a very bad chance of surviving as a company. Not in the very short run, but in the longer run for sure. So that is why in so many industries, CEOs are making sure that they do go into change mode. They might not always use that anymore under the header of climate or of clean. But for many of them, it simply makes business sense to step up. And the numbers show that they are right.

7:33Andrew Limbong:Just to give you one number that I've always found absolutely spectacular. If you look at what happened to the price of solar, that dropped by roughly 95 % in terms of cost just in this decade or in this century, so in these 25 years alone. and the costs are ever further going down. So it is just attractive from a commercial perspective to have exposure to that.

7:56Wopke Hoekstra:The EU has made progress in its clean energy transition, but it still imports Russian gas. And I think that reliance is problematic for the bloc's climate and broader policy goals. So how are you working to reconcile this?

8:10Andrew Limbong:We're trying to eradicate that as quickly as we can, Andrew. I just, just no doubt about it. We have made a severe mistake years ago to believe that this dependency was actually okay and that it was with a trustworthy partner. And then the Ukrainians turned out to be at the receiving end of an absolutely illegal, horrible war the Russians forced upon them. And immediately when we then started to side with the Ukrainians, the effect was that the Russians were trying to threat us with this dependency. So never again. The good news is we have actually eradicated this dependency already for 90%. The last 10 % is the most difficult, but you're absolutely right.

8:50Andrew Limbong:We should step up and make sure that we get rid of that.

8:54Wopke Hoekstra:Often, you know, regular people get lost in these conversations, right? So what stories do you hear from people about what is changing their lives? And what can people concerned about climate do themselves?

9:05Andrew Limbong:I fully understand that people on the one hand are saying, look, I'm worried about all the news I'm getting and what this will mean for my life or for the life of my kids. and at the same time wonder about how measures governments are taking might impact their lives. If you're working in the coal industry and the plant is going to close, well, you might intellectually agree that that is good for climate, but of course you wonder about how you're going to feed your kids. And then it matters whether there are actually jobs available in new industries and whether there's training available to make sure you get skilled in a way that gives you a decent chance for a great job in that new industry.

9:46Andrew Limbong:But it is important to make sure that we facilitate these type of things, in my view. Ulbke Hoekstra is the European Union Climate Commissioner.

9:54Wopke Hoekstra:Kudfen, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you very much for having me. This episode was produced by Daniel Offman. It was edited by Sarah Robbins. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigen.

10:11Wopke Hoekstra:It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Andrew Limbaugh.

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