Trump says he's pulling U.S. troops from Germany. Does it matter?

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1:05It's Consider This, where every day we go deep on one big news story. Today, the U.S. military alliance with Germany. American troops have been stationed there since the end of World War II. It is still home to the biggest U.S. military footprint in Europe, Rhein-Main Air Base, which closed in 2005, served as an important hub for treating U.S. troops during the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts. In 1981, that same Air Force Base was the setting for the joyful return of the 52 American hostages who had been held hostage for 444 days by Iranian militants. And then the Americans took their first steps into freedom.

1:49Today, about 36 ,000 U.S. troops are stationed in Germany, and they're a key part of the U.S. military ecosystem, and they're a key part of the U.S. military ecosystem and the NATO alliance. Now, President Trump plans to reduce that number. We're going to cut way down, and we're cutting a lot further than 5 ,000. Trump has grown increasingly and publicly frustrated with NATO allies. This time, he's taking it out on German Chancellor Friedrich Merz, who said the U.S. has been humiliated by Iran. Consider this. Trump is once again threatening NATO allies. What would a reduction of U.S. troops in Germany mean for security and the U.S.

2:31military?

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4:08It's Consider This from NPR. German Chancellor Friedrich Merz finds himself in a spat with President Trump. The spat started when Germany, along with other European countries, refused to help the U.S. with the war with Iran. Then last week, Chancellor Merz said of the U.S., an entire nation is being humiliated by the Iranian leadership, especially by these so-called revolutionary guards, end quote. That did not land well with President Trump. He threatened to shrink the number of U.S. troops stationed in Germany. Among the many questions raised by this, what are U.S. troops doing in Germany anyway?

4:48We'll put that to Jeff Rathke. He is president of the American German Institute. Welcome. Thanks so much, Mary Louise. So I'll fill in just a little bit of the history here. The American military footprint in Europe dates back to the days after World War II, the defeat of Nazi Germany. I know the size of that footprint and the mission has changed quite a bit over the decades. But start with that basic question. Why are there U.S. troops still there 80 plus years after the end of World War II? It's a good question. And I think the fundamental answer is because the United States has an interest in what happens in Europe.

5:27For decades after the end of the Second World War, the United States saw itself as a European power. not only because we cared about Soviet attempts to dominate Europe, but because it was the most important economic partner for the United States in the world. And it still is, by the way. The troops in Germany, also U.S. stations troops in Italy, in Spain, in the U.K. To the specific question of what they do, I often see this described as logistical hubs, like helping support the U.S. military effort, the U.S. war in Iran, for example. What does that actually look like? Yeah, well, the United States has armed forces from the U.S.

6:09Army, also from the U.S. Air Force. Those are the bulk of U.S. forces in Germany. The Air Force in particular runs the Ramstein Air Base, the headquarters of the U.S. Air Forces in Europe. And that is where you hear about the logistical hub function. Because if you look at the map and see U.S. flights, whether those are refueling, air-to-air refueling flights or other kinds of logistical support, many of them are routed through Ramstein Air Base. And it also plays an important information hub role beyond the planes moving back and forth. I'm glad you raised the information role. Personal note here, I was born in a U.S.

6:52Army field hospital in Germany because my dad was an Army intelligence officer and he was stationed there. I raise that because the U.S. military footprint is bigger than the top line numbers suggest. There are spouses there, there are kids, there are U.S. Army hospitals and schools and PX, and it can look like a small town. Yeah, absolutely. So there are some 36 ,000 U.S. troops in Germany. Why would withdrawing that number we just heard from President Trump, 5 ,000, why does that matter? Well, it matters for a few reasons from my perspective. First, as we talked about earlier, the United States has an interest in what happens in Europe.

7:35And in the particular troops that the United States would withdraw in this scenario, we don't know which unit it is, but probably these would be from the U.S. Army. It would be what they call a brigade combat team. So in other words, forces who would play a role if there were a land attack against Europe. And with a war being waged by Russia just a few hundred miles away in Ukraine, it's not an abstract scenario. And what the Trump administration intends to do, it seems, is to go back down where the United States was before Russia unleashed its full-scale war on Ukraine. And what would be lost if that happened?

8:16Well, on the one hand, I think you lose the ability to deter Russia in the way that we have along with our transatlantic partners over the last few years. So fewer American troops in Europe means less threat from a Russian perspective that the United States will respond robustly and effectively if Russia threatens, let's say, a NATO member in Europe. That's, I think, the most immediate concern. So if I'm reading between the lines or listening between the lines to what you're telling us, it sounds like what you're saying is this is not some American gift to Europe. This is a way for the U.S. to project its values, its ambitions, its military might worldwide.

9:04Sure. The United States has an interest not only in European security, but in the ability to play a global leadership role. We do that mostly through our alliances. And those alliances depend on trust and predictability. So anything that undermines trust and predictability is also a lesson to others when they try to figure out how many of their eggs they should put in the American basket, how much they can rely on the United States for their security. And that's what's at the bigger, that's the bigger issue that's at stake in these kinds of decisions. How confident are you that this will actually happen?

9:47Worth noting that President Trump back in his first term tried and failed to reduce the U.S. troop presence in Germany. I think this is quite likely to happen. There's a difference to 2020. In 2020, there was not the planning to back up the president's declaration that he was going to withdraw about a third of American troops from Germany. In this case, the president made his announcement just as the Pentagon was getting to the end of a review of the United States global force posture. So in that regard, the Pentagon was moving in this direction before the president made the announcement. And I think there's every reason to expect they're going to carry it out.

10:34So big picture, if this troop reduction does go ahead, what might that mean for U.S.-Europe relations? What might it mean for NATO? Well, I think German government officials have been trying to downplay the significance of this move. They've highlighted that they knew there could be changes to the U.S. presence in Europe. And they themselves are making massive investments in their own defense capabilities. The question is really one of time. How quickly are they able to ramp up, expanding their armed forces, developing and buying new weapon systems that would then take the place of the U.S. forces that are there?

11:19So in that sense, there's an understanding that this would happen. But the key question from European allies has been, can we make this an ordered, predictable transition of the burden to European responsibility? And when you have announcements that come out of the blue without prior consultation, then they start to get nervous because you don't know if that's the end of the story or is it just the beginning. And are they able to pick up the slack that the United States might be leaving? It's been argued and there's truth to it. The Europeans are generally rich countries that have the industrial ability to produce weapons, and to replace a lot of what the United States does.

12:10The question is, can you do that in an orderly way that preserves American leadership and preserves security on the European continent? Jeff Rathke, he's president of the American German Institute. Thanks so much. It was a pleasure. This episode was produced by Theo Gehrin, Tyler Bartlam, and Karen Zamora. It was edited by Sarah Handel and Courtney Dorning. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan.

12:42It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Mary Louise Kelly. This message comes from KeyBank. Scaling a successful business takes more than just grit. It takes the right relationship. KeyBank pairs the right strategy with the right financial tools to keep your business moving forward. KeyBank opens doors. More at key.com slash b2b. This message comes from Mint Mobile. If you're tired of spending hundreds on big wireless bills, bogus fees, and free perks, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop plans at mintmobile.com slash switch. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.