What do Tuesday’s primaries signal about where the Democratic Party is headed?

0:00It's Consider This, where every day we go deep on one big news story. Today, what does the future of the Democratic Party look like? What a race. You know, in the words of Muhammad Ali, we shook up the world. That's Abdul Al-Sayed, political progressive, former public health official who narrowly defeated Haley Stevens, a more moderate candidate in Michigan's Democratic primary for Senate. It was a big win for progressives on a night that also saw establishment candidates pick up wins, including Representative Wesley Bell in Missouri. We can disagree over here, but we can still do the work. We can disagree over there, but we can still do the work.

0:43Because progressives are supposed to make progress. Let me say that one more time. Progressives are supposed to make progress. The results are fueling a tug of war between two wings of the party, one backed by the Democratic establishment, The other by progressives like Vermont Independent Senator Bernie Sanders. Consider this. There's a fight for the future of the Democratic Party. What do Tuesday night's results tell us about where it's heading? Coming up, I speak with Senator Sanders.

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2:46It's Consider This from NPR. A fight is unfolding in primaries across the country, ballot after ballot pitting moderate establishment candidates against progressives, like what we saw on Tuesday night. So what are the takeaways? A question I will put now to Senator Bernie Sanders, independent from Vermont, self-described Democratic socialist who endorsed Abdul Al-Sayed, the winner in Michigan's Democratic Senate primary. Senator Sanders, welcome. Good to be with you. How do you see the stakes in what happened in Michigan last night? Was this the most important test yet for where Democrats and the Democratic Party is headed?

3:24I think maybe. I think it's important to appreciate the extraordinary victory that Abdul won last night. He took on the Michigan Democratic establishment, virtually all of that. He took on the National Democratic establishment. and most importantly, he took on in what I think is unprecedented, and I've never heard of this, close to$70 million in one state, the state of Michigan, from super PAC money, half of which were$30 million, of which was from AIPAC. And I want to talk about the money in just a second, but I do want to just push you, this was not a blowout. This was not the cakewalk that early polling suggested it might be.

4:06Why do you think not? This is the most extraordinary victory in modern American politics. He took on everybody and over$60 million that he won by one vote would have been an extraordinary victory. In terms of polling, I don't know what to say about Michigan polling. They've got to work on getting some better polls. I remember when I ran for president in 2016, they told me the polls said you've got a 99 to 1 percent chance of winning in Michigan. We won in Michigan. I think they need some new posters there. Here's to better and good polling. Okay, on the money, how big a factor was AIPAC-affiliated money yesterday in Michigan?

4:48It was huge. The fact that she lost speaks to Abdul's campaign and the fact that he had many, many thousands of people knocking on doors. The fact that he won does not mean that money does not play a role. I have never seen a campaign where so much money and so much establishment support went to the other candidate and another candidate won. Aaron Ross Powell Electability. We're talking about elections. We're talking about electability. As you know well, Senator Sanders, the conventional wisdom has been moderate Democrats are going to have a better shot at winning in the general election once they get past the primary because they might have a better shot at picking up undecided voters, swing voters and so on.

5:30Does that conventional wisdom hold in 2026? We're seeing, if there's anything we're seeing right now in this very unusual moment in American history is conventional. Wisdom is no longer conventional. It's out of touch with reality. What you're seeing, again, from all over this country is people who have never run for office before, people who are trade unionists, iron workers suddenly running and winning primaries in Montana or in Ohio and so forth. But the way you win elections, to my mind, is that you have to generate excitement. The American people now are very frustrated with the Democratic Party and the Republican Party and Donald Trump.

6:13They are hurting. They can't afford health care. They can't afford housing. Can't afford a decent retirement. And they're looking around them. And they're saying, does the government do anything for me? And the answer is not much. And the reason for that is you have a corrupt campaign finance system and members of Congress can't stand up to the money. So when you have candidates, progressives going out and saying, you know what, I'm going to take on these guys. It is insane that we have more income and wealth inequality in America than ever, that we're the only major country not to guarantee health care at all people or paid medical and family leave.

6:44You know what people are saying? Huh, maybe I will get involved. Maybe we can change what's going on in America. Maybe we can create a decent society. Can you see a progressive? Can you see a democratic socialist winning the White House in 2028? Sure. Absolutely. Who? I'm not going to go. You know, one of the things that does bother me is that instead of talking, you have to try. But we should be talking about why we're the only major country on earth, not the voluntary health care to all people, not speculating on an election which is going to take place in two and a half years. You know, I think we spend – we have endless campaigns.

7:17But what happens right now is going to shape what's happening in 2028, surely. No, but let's talk about it. I think as a nation, we need to focus. Why do we have the highest rate of childhood poverty of any major country? Why are we spending$1.1 trillion on the military, including billions for endless wars in support of Netanyahu? We need in a country to have a serious discussion about the very serious issues facing the American people. The political process will play out. Candidates will come up. They'll run. Some will do better than others. We'll see what happens. But I think two and a half years before an election, it's a little bit silly to talk about candidates.

7:50Last question. For many years, you've been pushing for universal health care. You've managed to do it multiple times in this conversation. Are we any closer? Yeah, we are. Poll after poll makes it clear. The American people understand this system is broken. It is dysfunctional. It is insanely expensive. We spend twice as much per capita on health care as the people of other nations. But all over the world, they manage to guarantee health care to all people. It's a human right. The American people want Medicare for all. And if the Democrats gain control of the House and Senate, my top demand will be you pass Medicare for all within the next few months of your taking power.

8:32Vermont Independent. Senator Bernie Sanders speaking with us from his office on Capitol Hill. Senator, thank you. Well, thank you very much. This episode was produced by Michelle Aslam and Karen Zamora with audio engineering by Tiffany Vera Castro. It was edited by Mallory Yu and 10 Beat Air Muse. Our interim executive producer is Courtney Dorning.

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