Why The Supplement Industry Is Broken and How Momentous Plans to Fix It with Jeff Byers

30:13It's like, A, I don't trust it or B, I don't relate to it. Right. And it's like, but I still buy the things and it's like, you kind of buy them. Like, I think I'm buying something good. Um, anyway, so long winded answer. Definitely. This episode is brought to you by propeller industries. If you run a high growth business and your focus on profitability, extending your runway, and improving your operational efficiency, you probably need a finance and accounting whiz that will grow with you. Well, instead of hiring someone full-time, what would be cost-effective is working with Propeller Industries.

30:46Propeller Industries is the leading strategic finance and accounting partner for venture stage companies and has partnered with over a thousand startups and high-growth businesses across consumer products, consumer tech, and enterprise. Some of the brands that they've worked with are Liquid Death, olipop hymns farmer's dog away movie pass and giphy propeller also provides specialized support for fundraising and m &a with transaction advisory services propellers ta team of former investment bankers and investors can step in on more of a project basis when pursuing full-scale financing and m &a there's a link to propeller industries in the show notes if you want to learn more information no for sure how well no no not at all not at all how how did you think about as well um penetrating the NFL or penetrating, you know, college sports and actually having Momentus be the preferred supplement vendor per se of teams in the, in, in sports.

31:44So imagine that's pretty probably challenging in, in, in terms of, in terms of actually becoming like a trusted partner for. Yeah. I would say like, first off, you have to have the right products. Second, you have to have the right ingredient and sourcing story. And third, you have to have the certifications. None of that matters if you don't have the relationships. Right? Like those are all givens and then you have to go build the relationships in those teams. And so the relationships are a big deal. Right? And again, like a lot of these people who are like, these aren't buyers. Like these are dietitians that are working with the athletes every single day.

32:27Like like buying supplements is a secondary. They have to do it, but it's not their primary. Their primary job is making sure the team can perform. Like they don't have buyers that are like buying these things. Right. Right. Like they're just like sometimes Ph.T., sometimes, you know, masters in in sports science and nutrition, whatever that may be. Like they just don't, like this is their secondary, like they don't know a lot. And so it's like, how do you help them and support them in the right ways? Got it. What was, what is your approach to, and I know this from Amentus on, on the actual sourcing side and the sourcing, you know, raw ingredients, also the manufacturing.

33:10And what do other supplements brands maybe get wrong and where we as consumers can obviously become more educated when we even see labels or supplements? And maybe we actually can't see what's behind the scenes. I kind of boil it down to a couple of things. When I think about the supplement space, why do I want to be like the anti-supplement supplement company? And what does that mean? Like, but like, I think there's a big lack of trust in the space. Like most people are like, yeah, I know these things can be good for me, but what, you know, and like, are these good companies, they know there's not a lot of regulation, not sure how much, then there's a transparency of like, what is actually in it?

33:55Where is it coming from? Doesn't exist, which leads to lack of trust. And then there's this big piece around clarity and like clarity is noise. There is so much noise, right? Like, Mike, you walk into the store, you walk into any grocery store, there's probably a whole half of an aisle of a grocery store dedicated to this category. What do you do? Where do you start? What's important? And so it's like this lack of trust, transparency, and then a massive amount of noise, which lacks clarity. Right. And so, like, that's what's wrong with this space. Right. In my opinion. So you go back to transparency.

34:32This was really eye opening to me. and it continues to be eye-opening to me, is the majority of the raw ingredients from our category are coming from places people would be surprised. Like a lot of raw ingredients come from China, right? And I'll give creatine monohydrate as an example. There is one non-Chinese creatine monohydrate manufacturer in the world. One. It's called CreaPure. They're out of Germany, right? If you don't source your creatine from them, you are buying Chinese creatine. Don't care if it says made in the USA. There is no creatine made in the USA. None. Zero. Consumers don't know that, right?

35:23And I think that is a problem, right? When we think about those things. When you think about other things in health and wellness, food, like these better for you things, it is transparency and clarity. It's like, here are the four ingredients. Here are this. Here's that. Like the supplement space and sports nutrition space is so far behind that, right? It's like so far, it's not better for you. You don't know where they're coming from. Nobody's going to the store and buying organic apples from China. Like that doesn't exist, right but it happens in our space and they're the it's one of the very few categories that you put in your body that you don't know where things come from right and you don't like and you actually don't have the confidence that's what's in it is in it um and so i think that is a a really big challenge that to uncover right in our space of like people don't talk about it because consumers in our category have been a low, lower price wins.

36:26And I think that is problematic. Whereas like, that's not happening in health and wellness in any other category. Nobody's like, I'll go to the cheapest doctor ever. I'm going to buy the cheapest. Like I want to buy health food. I'm going to buy the cheapest health food. I'm going to go buy the cheapest at the grocery store, the cheap, like that is, that is never the healthiest, but our category is the only category that have done that. And so it just led to a lot of systemic problems, my, my belief. And there's a lot of great companies that do it well, but the category is massive. And I think until we have these conversations and help raise this category, because it just, it's a matter of choice and consumers dictate with their wallets and consumers follow.

37:14I mean, businesses follow consumers' wallets. And if we can show this, it only is going to make – the category is big enough for so many players. It's massive. And let's just raise the bar. Anyway, so box it. What's wrong with buying creatine that's sourced in China or even supplements that are sourced in China? I think it comes down to, A, right? And if you don't certify your product, you don't know what else is in it, right? Like the Chinese supply chain is very convoluted in terms of like where things are coming from. Creatine, the manufacturing process is not very clean. It's not like it's a byproduct of of Coke.

38:02Like Coke is in like, you know, making iron or coal. It's a byproduct of that. And that is like that is a problem. Also, it's a very, very dirty manufacturing process. So, A, you don't really know where things are coming from, right? Like, the purity is close enough, right? I would say close enough. However, there's been some cases where it hasn't been. But if you do the proper certifications as a company, it should be safe, right? But it's that transparency and quality. Like, is there anything wrong with an apple coming from China? Maybe, maybe not, right? Like it's just like they have different practices of manufacturing and producing things than we do in the West.

38:44That's not right or wrong. But I believe consumers should make a choice right on there. And like there's a lot of things that are great that come from different places in this world. But food and things we put in our body are not always those things. And again, it's not that it isn't materially different. No, but I don't like consumers don't know that. And when you don't know those things, consumers actually care. And when you find out, trust degrades, right? But also, if you're not third party certified by a top body, you don't know. You fundamentally do not know, right, if it is because a lot of these other companies, like these are the same companies that make and sell pharmaceuticals that could be, right, cross contaminated and other things.

39:34And so it's like, there is a lot of challenges. And I just fundamentally believe manufacturing is very different. And it is like the process that's used in Germany is a very different process that's used in China. And it, like the product is essentially the same that comes out as creatine monohydrate, but how you get there is different. So I guess based on your experience, the Chinese supply chain in your mind, it just tends not to be as transparent when it comes to creatine production or even supplement production. And that's really like the main. When it comes to a lot of the raws, it's like you don't actually know where it's coming from.

40:07And it could be coming from different factories. It could be coming from different regions, different farms. And it's also from our perspective, like it's not a consistent supply chain, right? Because you don't have visibility into it, which is really, really hard in our category. And it's like you're buying creatine from a distributor who's buying it from a Chinese distributor who's buying it from multiple factories in China, right? Right. That. Right. It's just like for us, like. We know exactly where the factory is. We can go visit that factory tomorrow. Right. If we so choose. That is a very different relationship.

40:50Which supplements do you think are much more commoditized or commodities or commodities versus ones that actually are differentiated that you really should be paying attention to which brand you actually choose from? I'm going to throw this one back at you. Beef is a commodity. Right. But if it's grass fed or. There's a very different subset of beef. There's prime beef. There's choice beef. There's select beef. There's grass fed beef. There's natural beef. Right. Like all of these things. There's different cuts of beef. Right. Like, so like, I, that's a dangerous thing to say. Like, I will say most of our industry is commoditized.

41:30Right. Meaning it's coming, like, it just, that is what it is. But the actual quality that you actually can get. So these actually are differentiated products. If we talk about protein, like, if we just go to, like, whey protein. Yeah. Or milk, like, let's start with milk protein. Whey protein isolate. Commoditized. Right? But you have milk protein, milk protein isolate, whey protein concentrate, whey protein isolate. Right? Like, so you have all these different forms. It's like the different grades of beef, right? And then it's like, where are you sourcing this from? Like, what is the pure, like, what is it?

42:08Like, you can get 94 % WPI, whey protein isolate, which is 94 % whey protein isolate. You can get 89, you can get 85, right? Like, you can buy, you as a manufacturer, we can buy different grades of it, right? And so, like, whey protein is probably the greatest commodity, right, when you think about that. So it's just like there is, right? Just like when you go to the store, like apples are a commodity, but you have organic apples, you have Fuji apples, whatever, right? Like you have all these different choices and consumers understand that better in food. But fundamentally, our category is just like protein is protein.

42:44It's like whey protein concentrate is different than whey protein isolate. Also, if you choose to sweeten, like what are the other ingredients in there? Like we as a brand have chosen to never use artificial sweeteners or artificial flavors, right? Sucralose is one of those. And sucralose is an engineered sweetener. But like lots of studies, hey, is it materially bad for your health? No. it isn't good for your gut biome right like it's shown to destroy right good microbes in your butt in your gut and and more importantly increase the bad microbes why would you why would you put something in a product that's meant to be taken daily that has potential implications to your gi system that is actually like now that we know it's like your gut biome is incredibly important And so it's like, but like, that's the difference.

43:43It's like, yeah, it's a commodity. Asterisk, asterisk, asterisk, asterisk, right? Like in there, it's like other ingredients, sourcing, right? Quality, what's the grade that you're looking at? It's just like the consumer doesn't understand it because nobody can, nobody's talked to the consumer about it. Yeah. What are other ingredients besides sucrose that maybe folks should watch out for when they're actually thinking about which, let's say, protein products that they should be getting? Yeah. I mean, I think just fundamentally, whey protein isolate is going to be the highest filtered whey on the market, right?

44:24It's really looking for how many actual ingredients are in the back. Like if it's a laundry list of ingredients, it's the same thing. That's like going to the grocery store and buying the most highly processed foods. Like you don't need a ton of ingredients in your whey protein, right? And it's something that we take a lot of great pride in is like, how do you have the least amount of ingredients that make a high quality product? So I'd say that's sucralose. So artificial sweeteners and artificial flavors are really important. And the least amount of ingredients that you can find in there. And now, right, like if you like unflavored for us has whey protein isolate and prohydrolase, which is a digestive enzyme, which helps enhance absorption.

45:07That's all that's in our unflavored. Now, with flavors like you had cocoa and some salt and some other like natural flavors in there, stevia and monk fruit as like natural sweeteners. but I would just say like it's just looking at the back of the label and it's it's the same thing if you're going to go like like highly processed food versus minimally processed food it's like you want a clean label right that you that you can look at and then I would say it's like way like consumers don't understand the difference between whey protein concentrate and isolate and isolate is right oh like it's like buying prime beef versus select beef there is a difference right absorbability right flavor all those things like it matters um and so that's you know if you're doing something in my perspective you're doing something for your health and longevity like an investment of another 10 so you know is actually not that much but our consumers have been we've been trained to look at our category as a commodity.

46:15Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. Thinking about the 80-20 rule when it comes to supplements, which 20 % of supplements do you think that delivers 80 % of the benefits or ones that it makes sense to actually take every day? Yeah, you're stealing my lines and I love it. But I really believe in this 80-20 rule across the board in life, in how we operate. Like 20 % of what we do drives 80 % of the value, right? Essentially is the model. One of the unique things we've had at Momentus is like, I'm not a crazy innovator or, right, sports scientist or any of that. What we've been able to do is we sit at this really cool nexus, right?

47:03Between practitioners or like the people who are pro in college sports, to scientists, to like the trendsetters or tastemakers that are setting the tempo of health for the next 15, 20 years. Like we sit in the middle of all this. And so what we've been able to do is create a really, really powerful, right, portfolio. My goal is not to have 300 products, nor is it to have one product that does everything. I just fundamentally believe that's wrong. But then it's like, what does this group all really recognize as like the most important impactful thing. So we call the three because this is the question I ask.

47:43I would ask, if you had five things, what would you do? And I ask this of the ecosystem that we have. And of those five that everybody would come back, three were always the same. Protein, omegas, and creatine. No cross-reactivity. Really, really hard to get from your diet or from your lifestyle. And they are the biggest levers you can do when you think about health and longevity, right? Help maintain lean muscle mass, help cellular function, and important for brain health. All things that are really, really important. So like how do we maximize our ability to maintain our lean body mass, which is one of the largest indicators, and train and recover from training?

48:30That is a huge thing. And it's hard to get enough protein. It's like 0.8 to 1.2 grams of protein, depending upon who you talk to per pound of body weight of like, if you're an active adult, that is a lot of protein, right? It's a lot. It's a lot of protein. And it's like, it's not practical to consume it all. Now, do you have to have it? No, but to be optimal and like as a active fit adult, right? That we're trying to like close the gap between lifespan and healthspan. Those things are important and lean body mass is important. So, so those are the three things that, that it's like, that's your foundation.

49:04And I struggle with people that are like, what about this? What about this? It's like, those are shiny objects. And those work for, right, corner cases. But a lot of things can be solved with behaviors first. Like, we have a great sleep product. Sells really well. But if you aren't doing the fundamental lifestyle and behavior changes for sleep, it actually, like, no pill is going to fix your sleep. Right? Can it enhance it? Yes. But you're better off investing in behaviors for sleep than taking a pill. However, protein, creatine, or omegas, those are essential nutrients. Really hard to get from your daily diet.

49:52Magnesium, L3 and 8, apigenin. Those things are awesome. They can help you sleep, but you don't actually need them to sleep. Right, right. That makes sense. I mean, like having a good routine, maybe not enough screen time, for example, right before you go to bed and other kind of habits that actually get you in the mood, your body realizing that, okay, it's bedtime, that you're kind of programming your body to actually go to sleep naturally. That makes a lot of sense in terms of the 80-20. So protein, protein omegas, and then also creatine as the big three per se. And I agree with you. I mean, I try to have one gram per pound every day, but it is so challenging or can be challenging.

50:45to actually get it it's an easy way so to augment that's all it is right like like is there a max is there a max you can have probably of a powder or no i mean you're gonna like right like don't like anything right if you do too much of anything like i'm sure if you consumed all of your protein all your protein by powder that's not you'll probably have some gi issues yeah right like Because guess what? You need fiber in your diets. You need fat in your diet. You need all these other things. Everything else that kind of comes to you is solid protein. This is supplemental, right? Like nothing that I said should take place of a well-balanced, good diet.

51:26If you're like well-balanced, good diet, like that is, right? Like that's like sleeping and moving. Like those things are like requirements of being a human. So I think it's such an interesting thing. And then everything else just cascades beyond that. But if you like master the things that if you do for long periods of time have big impacts. Now, sometimes you need to augment with this or that. Like I'll do collagen for an example. Like collagen has really awesome data around connective tissue health, right? Joins, ligaments, tendons. I play professional football. I've had a ton of surgeries, right?

52:01I've torn a ton of ligaments and tendons. That is a limiting factor in my life. I need to do as much as I can to increase like the longevity of my wheels. Mike, I don't know your background, but my guess is you have a lot less miles on that car than I do. Right. And so therefore, collagen rises up to my level of like that goes right below my big three. Not for everybody. Right. And sometimes it's just like, hey, I tore my ACL scheme. I'm going to do this pre surgery and post surgery. Right. And that's all you need. But it just depends. Once you get below that, it's what are your goals and what are your limitations that you need to look at?

52:47And that's where I think the challenge in our space is people are getting swayed by here's this one thing that does everything. Like the magic pill is exercise and sleep. That's the magic pill. The problem is it's not a pill and they're actually way harder than you think. But I think it's quite clever because I was going to ask you, should supplements be individualized versus general? But it seems like you all at Momentus, you do a pretty good job in terms – I mean, an awesome job – of showing kind of like these are kind of like the core things that you should really focus on. and you also bundle them in creatine, omegas, and then also protein.

53:39But then as well, we have these other options, the other products that actually might be tailored much more maybe individualized in terms of what your needs are, which I think is actually quite kind of clever in terms of having a routine, having a supplement routine for everybody, but then based off of maybe other areas they might be struggling with, here's maybe some more kind of individual ones too. Yeah. As you look through our portfolio, like right below the big three, we kind of have like athletic performance. We have like daily wellness or essentials, right? Like things like vitamin D and iron or zinc and right.

54:15Then you have, right. What we call cognitive longevity, which is, which is powerful. Then we have sleep, right? And our goal is to have the 80, 20 for all of those categories. What is the 20 % that drive the most amount of impact for people in those categories. Like, not have everything for sleep and not have, like, one thing for sleep. But have the core, right? And if sleep is something that you need to help, you need a little help with, let's have what's right in there. That has good data, right? That can have an impact, right? But, like, the not be everything. And, like, let's help guide people into that.

54:52But it does come down, like, and so when I think about, you know, people always ask me what should I do, right? They ask me three questions. What the hell is Momentus? Oh, you're just a supplement company. What makes you special? And then it's, oh shit, what should I take? And that what should I take is where the Momentus 3 came from. Because without knowing you, Mike, the big three, the Momentus 3 are the only things I want to talk about. Master those. But then it comes down to like, you know what you care about. What are your limitations? What are you trying to achieve? And then you go that next level down and pick those.

55:29But I can't just say, well, you should take, you should be taking Iron and our sleep pack and this. It's like, our sleep pack's great. Maybe you sleep awesome. I sleep really well. Like, awesome, awesome. Like, I don't, my sleep is not my challenge. So guess what? It's not relevant to me, right? And so like, I can't tell you, I don't know you enough to know like that is an opportunity to, right, take your foot off the brake by helping you sleep a little better. Don't know. So, and then I think, like, there was this whole thing, like this push to extreme personalization. I think it's really hard.

56:06I think it's unsustainable for a consumer. Because, like, hey, if you get 0.9 grams of protein per pound of body weight versus one, it doesn't matter. Frankly, right, like, as long as you're in, like, a 10 % range, you're fine. 20 % range, even you're probably fine, right? Like if you make it so constrictive and so tailored and so personalized, it takes everything. Like what's the point of being healthy if you can't have fun and have some freedoms and eat a pizza? I don't know. Like that sucks. That's not fun. But the point of life is to live and why you invest in your health and wellness is to do more of what you love and have more smiles and laughs, right?

56:54Like, I don't like we like, it's just like so extreme. And I think it's so narrow minded to be like, we know exactly here. Here's your magic thing, Mike. And it's like, that doesn't take into a kind of like, maybe your blood work says that, but realistically, like you might have other, Like, it's just, we are complex beings. And I just, I don't think like a one, like truly personalized custom thing is what matters. I think you have to figure out what works for you and what's the biggest breaks. Because you also only have so much bandwidth, so many resources, right? And what you will do habitually for long periods of time is the most valuable.

57:37And that might be, I'll take omegas and creatine, but I hate fucking protein. Excuse me. So you don't do it. But guess what? That's better than you taking omegas, creatine, and protein for three weeks, stopping for six, starting for three. Right? What are you going to do consistently over long periods of time? Stick to it. Yeah, that's a really, really fair point. I should think here's a little bit too. Obviously, when you acquired Momentus and became Momentus, you bridge this gap of having all this unique relationships with thought leadership, also being able to penetrate the fitness community and the nutrition community in many different facets and ways.

58:26How do you leverage that? And as well, the inter-human partnership that happened a couple of years later as well, how do you think about taking all this thought leadership that you've built and trust that you've built more importantly, and actually translating and actually building out a consumer business? How are you able to do that? It's actually been, it's hard. I'm a, like my background's not in marketing or brand or content or creative, right? What I care the most about is the Momentus Standard, which is this 15 tenant thing that we built, our ecosystem, right? The people we surround ourselves with.

59:09And we've honestly like what's been so valuable for us is we've never been a marketing company first. We built a brand organically through our people, right, through our ecosystem, through the Hubermans. And that's developed trust. I believe the next step for Momentus is to not just have everybody else say that they trust us. It's to exude trust and become the leader in the space, right, by sharing these stories and by talking about the industry. in a different way and trying to take away the noise and add trust and transparency. And like to your question, it's like, hey, you should just know where your creatine comes from.

59:49I don't, like, does that change people's buying habits? I don't know. But I believe the transparency and sourcing is important for consumers to know. I care. I know a lot of other people do. I still make some choices. But I like to know those things, right? Right. And and so, you know, kind of kind of back to that is. We've done it really organically, a lot of people like, oh, man, your brand and your marketing is so good. And it's like. There's five years where you looked at our website and like when I pitched our business to investors are like, you know what you're doing? Like, nope. But look at all the amazing things that we have.

1:00:32right like we built a brand in the hardest places to penetrate and that brand is now coming to life and i think that's for me like holding that very precious like this being at the forefront of high performance is what will create longevity and momentous right rather than another flash in the pan in this industry that is very very common like what's the next trend or the better flavor this or that, right? Like what we want to do is create a longstanding leader in Momentus in this space, right? Long after I'm probably here is like, how do you instill standards and how do you instill doing it differently and better than it's ever been done before into a brand?

1:01:14And that's what it's been known for. And this is not happens in a week, right? It doesn't happen in six years. It happens over a decade, right? Like it, like always working to do this. And so I just, I don't know, like, I believe what we have to do in our next great thing to take it is, right, like leverage our external and turn it to internal to turn us to like that people are looking at us as a leader, right, versus, right, like, Stacey Sims and Huberman and all these other people like that lifted us up. How do we, right, rise into our own, right, and create change and be different? because most of our consumers don't know our backstory.

1:01:57Most of our consumers don't know, right, as an example, like we've been working on a pre-workout for three years, right? Most of our consumers don't know that we pulled the product off the market. That was about$400 ,000 of net profit a month. And we just gave that up because we did not believe in the science of that product anymore. We're like, those are the stories that we haven't told. And they're important to tell. What's one book that's inspired you personally and one book that's inspired you professionally? So I'll admit, I read occasionally. I listen a lot. Right? On there. One of the books I love more than anything, full disclosure, he's a partner of Momentus.

1:02:47Michael Easter is The Comfort Crisis. i just like i fundamentally like you read that book got me in a rucky like so good how you how we evolved like just doing hard things and like how do we not like it's just something that resonated so deeply with me and i just think really defines some of the the state that we're in as a world as a society um on that a book professionally that was really powerful for me is called Rocket Fuel. And we follow this operating system called EOS as a business. And Rocket Fuel basically is the definition or defines this duo leadership role at the top between an integrator and a visionary, right?

1:03:37And how those two become the strongest dynamic in a business. And so like you kind of got from me, like my background is not in implementing process or making P &Ls. My skill and passion is around innovation, science, sales, like, right, external, like how do we live and show the dream and the vision of what this is? Like I create a lot of energy for the team, set the tempo. Then you need this person behind. How do you harness the energy, put processes in place? So that book Rocket Fuel, really for my co-founder and I, my co-founder came from McKinsey and Company, like, right, one of the ultimate, right, grounds for like business strategy process, right?

1:04:25And her and I have this visionary integrated relationship that is really, really powerful when unlocked. Now, like any co-founder relationship, it can be challenging. Like that, when we read that book, it was like, that is us. And it allowed us to like take apart what we were doing as a business and say, where are our zones of genius? And how do we focus on that? Like, Jeff, you do this. I do this. Erica, you do this. I do that. Right? And that was really powerful. So I would say like most meaningful business book for me was that. I don't like honestly, like leadership books and things like that.

1:05:02Don't not that I don't love them or don't like I just I actually don't love them. Like it's like learning about leadership from a from a pro coach or a Navy SEAL. It's like that's a very different thing than running a company. Like when you're a Navy SEAL, you have the 50 most badass humans in the world that will literally die. It's a very different type of leadership than, oh, I have a 24-year-old marketing manager. Yeah, totally different. It's just like, it's like, it doesn't comprehend, right? And it's like my football, on a football team, there is some leadership traits, but that team, like, they don't all translate because you have the 1 % of the 1 % of the 1 % that will do anything.

1:05:50And in a business, you have this great diversity, right? of people that are just like, it's my first job. I hate what I do. I'm doing it. To people who are like, I'm all in on the mission. To a founder that is so different. It's just like this completely different. Anyway, so I haven't like, I've learned a lot on leadership by doing and seeing from my past life and like morphing what it takes. But it's very different. Final question. Requires a very short answer. It says that you work, well you do work with 31 of 32 nfl teams that helps deliver p performance who is holding out what's the team that's holding out nobody nobody 32 of 32 you're now 32 of 32 okay phenomenal phenomenal okay that's great um jeff thanks so much for your time i really appreciate it no thank you mike and there you have it jeff thanks so much for coming on the show it was tremendous having jeff on i really hope you all enjoyed it i certainly did if you're loving the show please subscribe at theconsumervc.com to receive a weekly newsletter of all the latest deals that are happening in consumer and of course an update of any time we have new episodes you'll be the first one to know about it thanks again for listening

1:07:20Thank you.