Celebrating Marginal Revolution's 20th Anniversary

24:52That's right. What did this guy do? What did he have a job or? Oh, professor. He was in professor of economics, but chaos theory, mathematician, Soviet economy. Yes, Soviet economy, yes. Well, here's your chance to kind of lift up the best commenter. So who in your mind right now or throughout the history of MR? Who stands out to you as a good commenter, someone who always says, Right now, sure is the best commenter. I don't know who he or she is, probably it's a he given our comment section, but just a lot of concrete points, especially about the healthcare sector. A medical system, yeah. Probably a doctor, very knowledgeable, sure as good, Dan, one, one, one, one, or one, one one one, I don't know which one, good.

25:35But it definitely changes over the years. Not everybody has come as long, so it changes. But it's like the intellectual calculation of the comments section. There will be lists of comments, and maybe every comment is bad, but actually in the aggregate, you will learn a lot from triangulating against it. Well, here's what these people would say. Well, adding the up -the -featured to me was like long overdue, but I substantially improved the quality of the comments section. Right, the Reddit style, like being able to just see the top comments versus waiting through it all, I think it's been a big improvement.

26:07There's a lot of manipulation though. I think it's an improvement, but a lot of people coordinating among their friends and failing to upflow their comment and manipulate the... They write scripts, I believe. Wow. It's possible to do, but it's a sign if out... Of course, but yeah, every time, writing scripts to hack the comment section, I'm like, wow. And most critical people are our biggest fans in my view. It's like, you're bothering to go after a lot of different... love and the opposite of love is not to hate it's a difference. It's very exactly. Very close to you, I think. Exactly. There are people who are very invested in the maintenance and operation of the Margin Revolution comment system.

26:44And so much to this, you can put any name you want. And people who have probably commented maybe as long as Ross or did want their identity protected. And it really bothers some people when they can't do that. that anyone can claim to be who they are. Have you thought about giving people that ability or changing it in a way that it's a little less gameable in that sense? If people register, it can be hacked, or they maybe they don't trust us. So I don't want to force people to have these identities. This is one fellow. Actually, when he was a kid, he trademarked the name Bill. He has IP in the name Bill.

27:22And there's another Bill who comes along, violates this guy's property rights. So the first bill calls the second one fake bill and they slug this out and first bill the guy with all the IP rights to the name He's convinced fake bill is actually equestrian Any right sauce and tells us look at the posting of the timing and look at what was it must be You guys need to get rid of fake bill and There's no grand conspiracy. It's just there are many bills Let's go back to eras of MR. Okay, so we did 06 to 2016. And I think the third error of MR is 2016 to 2020, which is the rise of populism, Trump. It's a smaller, shorter period because of COVID and things that happened around 2020.

28:08But what about that specific time? Both for MR and again, the kind of intellectual discourse online. It definitely fell. And the thing which marked it to me was actually our most common, I believe it's our most commented on post was just Tyler's post and it just said Sarah Palin that was it that was it and that is the most Knet just picture yeah, yeah nothing else. I didn't heard of her I just want what do you people gonna say I was very innocent on the point and and the the comment section Just went nuts and like everybody has got an as got an opinion and it was it was it was a little of distressing in the sense that that's precisely the sort of thing that Tyler and I don't want to do.

28:55But at the same time, if you don't give the comment section an opportunity to speak on the so -called issue of the day, they will take some other post which is on something entirely different and say, well, what about Sarah Falen? So you have to give them that outlet. That's right. They sound like children. I think we're the children, we're dealing with them. And they may be disturbed some times or just very smart people wasting their time. But I think in this era of the political discourse, the level -headedness of MR, which sounds both truly reflective of your natures, but also an intentional norm that you tried to establish was as needed as ever, right?

29:40The cool -headedness, even in the Trump era, I can't recall any posts that were over the top in their emotion. We had some very good think pieces in that era. I thought, both of us. What is a think piece like longer? Like a longer, but about politics, but not candidates about politics at a conceptual level. What is going on here? How can this be happening? Sort of pieces. Yeah, I mean, MR is market share of my mind's definitely increased during that period. I think definitely so. Other spaces, declining inequality. And MR didn't see what's great credit, for each other, English grade. Now, kind of a short lived year because in 2020, obviously pandemic, and then somewhat resulting from that, though, some of this stuff was seated before we have these big essays on progress, state capacity libertarianism, but also, of course, pandemic response.

30:32So maybe we've separate those two, but COVID, and just becoming similar to the financial crisis, is similar to other examples like this where everyone's learning in public, everyone's trying to figure out what's going on. What was that like for you to? We were stuck inside for one thing, so we put out more books. Links would have 10 rather than 5 or 6. Definitely a strange era. I found myself, I was invited to give this talk to the White House, the domestic policy and on using incentives to accelerate vaccine development. So I get on the call and turns out that they had invited me and Michael Kramer, who's a number one world expert on precisely this question.

31:23And I was very direct. You know, I said, you got to do this, you got to do this. It's when the economy was losing, you know, like $200 billion or $250 billion a month, right? And so there was almost nowhere you could go wrong, right? So I was promoting an operation warps, what turned into Operation Warps Speed, saying, you look, you got to spend some money here. I said, look, I'm known as a conservative, free market economist guy. I've never said these words in my entire life before, but now is the time to throw money at the problem. And Michael Kramer turned out was in complete agreement, which was good, gave me a lot of credibility.

32:00He's more soft -spoken, but that was a good teamwork. and then afterwards, they invited us, they asked us to write a report. And then Michael got a bunch of other people like Susan Atty and Chris Snyder, top economist, and we wrote this report promoting something like what became Operation Warp Speed. I have no idea what influence we had, but we certainly put it out there. And so then I became, because of the blog, I sort of became the spokesperson for some of these ideas. First doses first first dose is first and fractional dosing and using incentives operation more speed all that kind of stuff and then what was peculiar I think strange so I had that role and then Tyler started fast grants so we both had this tremendous kind of involvement in one way or another but in a very different respect yeah And MMR became a kind of information clearinghouse with other blogs gone clearly there was Twitter for the pandemic But if you wanted one website where you didn't have to scroll or Fend off other things We made that the place to go.

33:08It's amazing to me and retrospect how many people have held that against us Because a lot of what we did was just covering different facts held what against you that we gave so much attention to the pandemic They think we're like but did they interpret to the fake pandemic? Oh, I see gotcha Yeah, the one with the vaccines

33:30Remember? Yeah. I hadn't really thought about it in that way that marginal revolution enabled both of you to have applied real world responses to the pandemic, but in separate ways. Yeah, exactly. To do your independent thing, your both on the blog, obviously covering this stuff, getting your ideas out there. But then, Alex, you're much more giving policymakers a very specific idea of something to do, and as quickly as we can. And fast grants raised over $50 million, and most of the donors were MR readers. And I think in part they felt they trusted me in the operation because they had known of MR for so long, and they knew Alex was doing Operation War Speed, and it felt very credible.

34:21And I wonder if this is a good time to talk about the differences between the two of you and the way that you write and the way that you engage with the world, because your co -authors and obviously share so much. But the differences are sometimes amusing to see. So I was telling Alex earlier, I always know what I'm in my RSS reader looking at MR posts that I have to click on the ones where the capitalization is proper in the title of the post because I know Alex will capitalize the words in a post where his title will do lowercase, you know, words in the title. Then obviously Alex posts infrequently longer form usually, Tyler's relentless daily output.

34:55Talk about some of the differences between the two of you in terms of how you think, how you right? And are these subtle differences that show up at MR revealing of any deeper difference in your approach to life, worldview, work style, et cetera? You wrote a post on this, right? Do you remember what you said? So I said something like, if the post has got, you know, five different explanations for the same phenomenon, right? Then it's a Tyler post. If it has one explanation, you know, simplifying everything down, then it's an Alex post. If you don't understand what the post says, it's a Tyler post.

35:27If you do understand what the post says and you hate it, then it's an Alex post. I think that that rules pretty well. The way I put it is that the first thing I do when coming to a problem is strip away as much complexity as I possibly can and get down to what I think is the nut of the problem and try and deal with that. While the first thing that Tyler does is think about let's think about the five or six or seven things which could influence this and then we'll work with those seven different things and try and come up with a solution. And so we're very different in that way. But then if you force me to add in some complexity and what about this, what about this, this period of time.

36:12And then if you were to force Tyler to take away some complexity, which is really hard to do. So you have to get Tyler, you have to gang up on him with Brian Kaplan and Garrett Jones, people at lunch. If you gang up on Tyler and make him strip away the complexity and you make me add complexity, then actually we come to the same place, but from very different thinking styles. And how about the cadence of the output? Alex, are you ever tempted or inspired to publish more frequently or Tyler, have you ever thought about doing twice a week or what's that about the difference? No, I have no plan on changing.

36:44I think one thing I try to do in many of my posts is to mix moods. So I presented this notion of mood affiliation. People are like optimistic or pessimistic or they have their loyalty to the mood. And that's usually a cognitive mistake. And I found a few mixed moods in a post that you can say things that are entirely correct. And people will just get angry, they'll think you're confusing them. You're kind of messing with their minds. And this is deliberate, but I think it's trying to teach people a lesson. And once I wrote the book, The Great Stagnation, the title, The Great Stagnation, okay? But the whole last chapter of the book is about how we're going to get out of it.

37:22All these wonderful breakthroughs will be coming because of the internet. No one ever mentions that last chapter. They only take one mood away from a book. So I'm happy with the post. If I feel I've sent mixed moods, and what I'm saying I think is true, and it's going to bug people and confuse them, then I'm like, yes. Interesting. It reminds me of the post that I wrote last week on the World Coin, where I think... That's a good example. Right, what are the things that happened? Is that the people who are pro -World Coin basically said, like, look, you know, the haters are crazy, if it's how it explains it really clearly.

37:53And then the people who are anti -basically said, like, look, here's the section where he outlines what the four crazy risks are. And people, you know, it seems like everyone just walked away, yeah. I mean, I hope some people, I think lots of people did get interesting information, but definitely many walked away just a certain that, you know, other existing opinion is correct, which is unfortunately the default response to most writing anywhere. To answer your question, Ben, it's not about being tempted, being tempted to write more often. The production function just doesn't encompass that ability.

38:25And people, they don't believe Tyler reads as much as he does, but he honestly does. It's true. I only cover a small fraction of what I read. That's a funny thing. I mean, it's true Tyler's skims, but the way I would put it is this is that he very quickly is able to find something in a book which he doesn't know. And then he reads that section. But what this means is that the more Tyler reads, the faster he can read, because he just skips the stuff he already knows. So I mean, he's just a unique ability. And there's nobody else I think in the world who can produce as much original, interesting new content as Tyler.

39:05So I'm very grateful for that. since I feel I don't have to feed the blog quite as much. Speaking of reading, let's move to a segment I'm calling Mysteries of MR. So a couple times I think from like O6 to O8, you hosted book clubs. There were maybe two or three. There was a Keynes book club on the general theory, and it just stopped halfway through. Why did it stop? I'm not sure I remember. I was happy with it and the comment section on those posts was often quite good It stopped at chapter 12 and your last post is basically a long quote of the chapter You know an excerpt of the chapter and then you say a lot of insights in here 12 is the best chapter of the general theory.

39:51So maybe I just felt it would be going downhill Okay, not a satisfactory I Feel like I'm the only one in the world is wonder thing I was participating at the time and to me it just ended and it was never spoken of again Maybe 13 will be coming soon. Who knows? Why no more book clubs. The common section is worse. I think we're also not in an era of that many seminal books. So there aren't books I'm tempted to cover. I think there's a large number of excellent history books coming out, but they don't make sense for book clubs. You need some theory in a book for a definitive to a book club. So everyone can say something.

40:28What do you think is the last book that was like even on the level of things like human action or the stuff that's animated a lot of people in the last century. I feel there was a 15 to 20 year period, maybe starting with Jared Diamond, Consturhamson Steele, where you have at least 30 or 40 books. And I couldn't remember which was the last, but things like the Requeen, Sophosjean, or many different free economics. And everyone had to read all those books to be intellectually literate. I don't think we're in that time anymore. Yeah, I've definitely found for myself at having a harder and harder time answering the question What's the most interesting book that you've read?

41:09So I just mainly read history and those are interesting especially if you read them in clusters or clumps I'll read about the history of Ireland for six to nine months, but there's not any single book like oh you have to read this book And everyone's still trying to write books like the Jared Diamond kind of book I'm not saying they're all bad books, but I don't think they're really succeeding in grabbing anyone's attention. It feels played out that genre. Do you think we're just in like a lot of a big idea age and in more of a many small ideas age? The big ideas are things people do, like large language models, Ethereum, and so on.

41:45And those are the big ideas. They're fantastic, but they're not books. In a sense, the books were a poor substitute for the actual big ideas. It's the way I look at it. I'd rather have the big ideas if superconductivity comes through. How many books is that worth? So for a long time, you've made the claim that you've never missed a day of posting a margin revolution. Tell a claim. It's a fact. Please. I've often wondered if anyone checked that. I've checked. I've checked too. And it's not true. What? Alex, your first post was on August 21st. Okay, okay. There was no post on August 22. So Tyler, you hadn't started yet.

42:25So maybe you can still keep this claim. But there is one day that I've only been able to find where there is no MR post. Ah, have there been any close calls like, you know, playing Got Delayed? It's 11 .50 p .m. Post hasn't gone up or is it? It's not actually a thing that we try. I mean, I've evolved into trying, but I just have had a lot to say. Yeah, it's just, yeah, it's just Tyler's natural pace. Do you have any memory of, you know, so you wrote the first post on the 21st and then Tyler, you just started two days later. Do you have any memory of why Alex started first or there was the two day delay?

43:04We were doing all these practice posts, thinking no one would read them and we would just get up to speed. And then we learned people were writing us like, oh, love your post, just like, oh, someone read that. Wondering, oh, what did we say yesterday? And you also understand, okay, Tyler is not that good at technology. Okay, come on, Steve. So, I set the blog up, right? So then I had to, to hear as your password, Tyler, you know, here's how you post. So it took Tyler a week or two before he really hit stride. No, I still come to Alex with very simple questions. How does this work? And yet at the same time you've been a more active user of Chad G .P .T.

43:46than probably the great majority of other people. I don't think I'm good at the technological side of it. The conceptual side, maybe there are things I grasped because of my background in the humanities. That would be it. Let's move to probably the last official segment of the conversation, but this is the recurring segments and memes of marginal revolution. So I'll throw out a few that I've noticed in Vitalik and Ben, you jump in with any you know. But throughout the history of the blog, there's been these recurring things. Best sentence I read today. A very early one claims my Russian wife laughs at.

44:20I don't know if you remember that sentence. You won't let me call her Russian anymore. So that's one reason that one disappeared. Sentences to ponder, shout it from the rooftops, pictures of puffins. And Alex, I don't know how long you've done this, but every at the end of the year now you do a stats rundown, and I where you show off the most popular post of marginal revolution. And to me when I read it, I think this is Alex's way of saying, like, I don't write nearly as many posts as Tyler, but I usually have the top ranking post on marginal revolution. Is that, is that am I correct in that? Or is it you're just providing a public service?

44:53That's fair. Yeah, it's also to be fair to have the top post, which I don't always do by any means. That's not necessarily a good thing, right? That goes back to, you know, if it's an alley, if you understand the post and you hate it, it's an Alex post. So those tend to get a lot of comments. I think they, one of my favorite points of levity in MR is when I think Tyler, you once wrote a post after you know all these assorted links, of course, which is a standby on the blog. One day you just did assorted link. And the whole post was just number one with a link. It was like, what a clever reversal.

45:28But I think it would be remiss if we're talking about memes, Jeff, I feel like we have to honor the third co -author of the blog who's not here with us in this conversation, but that's Tyrone. And he's given a lot to marginal revolution over the years and just, you know, curious Tyler, just be honest with us. Where is he? What have you done with him? He lives in the attic, Tyrone. There hasn't been that much Tyrone in the last six or seven years. And I think the reason for that is the real world itself has become so weird and bizarre. That what is a tyrone post or what is funny in a tyrone post?

46:01It's changed and it's somehow more tragic and I would like to let tyrone out of the attic. But I also find it's a lot of emotional energy to write a tyrone post much more than to write a tyler post because you have to keep it within certain bounds but you have to let the juices flow and that's really hard. It has to be plausible enough, but people should not think, as indeed, they shouldn't. That tyrone's view is Tyler's, because we all know that's never true. For the uninitiated, Tyrone's worldview or essential style is what? For those who haven't been part of the blog for a long time, they've heard about Tyrone only in the abstract.

46:41How would he characterize his... I'm so close to Tyrone. I think we have to let Alex answer that question. I mean, I will say Tyrone will come to lunch, but he never announces himself. So the way that Tyrone operates is he will say something outrageous. And then everyone will, you know, at the lunch conversation we'll try and I would argue overcome. And then it will give a lot of good arguments for this. It's very disturbing because then you go home and oh my god, I wrote this mess with my mind. You know, what was wrong? It seems totally wrong and yet the argument seems logically correct. And so Tyrone is a troublemaker, okay?

47:21He's troubled and a troublemaker. So that's what I would say. And Tyrone uses his gifts to do evil deeds, okay? Tyrone uses his gifts to benefit the world and to create fast grants and emerging ventures and to stimulate all kinds of people. Tyrone uses his gifts to confound people and confuse them and set them on wrong paths. So we want to keep Tyrone pretty boxed. My father wanted to name me Tyrone That's where the name comes from and my mother refused. She's like Tyrone. That's a terrible name She held firm. I became Tyler, but it's some kind of modal reality in the David Lewis sense and every now and then readers should be allowed to peek behind that curtain If we should all I suppose reflect in ourselves at this moment of who is our inner Tyrone and how do we touch with our shadow?

48:12That's part of the point of the post is There you go. It's actually a tool from, I think, maybe cognitive behavioral therapy to give your negative thoughts a name and say, oh, that's Tyrone talking, that's not Jeff. So maybe I'll steal yours. Yeah, I feel like Strowcy and I some kind of is a meme in itself. But I think a lot of people misread that. I feel I've expressed forthright opinions on more topics, possibly than any economist ever. And it is true that when I write a post, I never or hardly ever explain the references or give links. It's super informationally dense. Partly doing so, boars me, partly trying to mess with people's minds a bit.

48:52But if they know all the references, it's actually crystal clear. And there's plenty of topics where I'll just... Here's what Tyler thinks, and I say it. I mean, hundreds, thousands of topics. And people think I'm the Strouseian. I tell people like how to find the Strouse and others. All right Alex. Okay, some general questions to close. How much time per week right now do each of you spend directly writing thinking about the blog? All of it. But look, writing it takes way less time than people think. Way less. All right, let's say just writing. Writing. Just actually crafting the posts, getting them ready to go.

49:33I don't know, two hours a day? Yeah, I mean, when I write, it does take some time, because I think, especially when you have a lot of readers and you think, well, I think, you know, if I can save a reader a few seconds of time and you do the, you know, expected altruism sort of calculation where, well, you got thousands of readers, so if I can, you know, my minute for me and saves them, you know, hours. I don't do that in that way. Tyler just likes to get it down. As your audience has grown, is there a sense that the stakes seem higher? Are you gonna spend more time sort of thinking reviewing posts, perhaps even self -sensoring?

50:09Like, gosh, and the old days I would have published this but now that I've got all these influential readers, I can't just... You've gotta resist that. And there's a few recent times where I did resist that. And I'm glad I did. But for me, a key thing is like, can you ever sit there and still giggle? And if that disappears, I feel I'm doing something wrong. But I definitely can still sit there in Gagel. Yeah, I wouldn't say we self -sensor. I don't feel I self -sensor, but except in the following sense, there's just a bunch of topics that I think the world just does not need to know my opinion.

50:40Right? A, wouldn't be useful and wouldn't be useful for them, wouldn't be useful for me. So, like, you know, what why bother? So there are things like that. So obviously... And what do you think about this topics? I will tell you. The floor is yours. So the blog has allowed you to gain so much influence notoriety. What's kept you at Mason and Mercatus? Have you had offers? What's kept you at this kind of institutional home? I've had good offers or potential offers, but support for what I'm doing, great people to work with. Alex must have all, but not only everyone at Mercatus, and where it is, I think it's the best location in the United States to be for a number of reasons, at least for me.

51:21It's been great. I go to economics conferences. You go here, some talks, and they're often boring. Then I find myself, it's bizarre, but I find myself, I want to go here, Tyler's talk, or Robin Hanzo's talk, or Brian Kappens. I can speak to these guys every day, right? Why would I possibly do this? Yet, it often turns out, they are the most interesting people on the agenda. And, you know, Tyler, like I talked to Tyler every single day, but he'll go present at a conference and he'll say things I've never heard him say before. So it's not like, you know, I say Tyler is like a heracletian thinker, you know, you can never enter the same waters twice because every single day it's something different.

52:08What a joy, what a pleasure, what a honor, you know, it is for me to be in a department with just an amazing group of thinkers who stimulate and you know, you're trying to keep up even a little bit and it's incredible. We never get to give it. And George Mason's a good school for free speech. Definitely. Yes. We feel supported there. What are the types of blog posts that you think have generated the most impact in the sense of cultural resonance or influence? Are they like the very prescriptive policy things? or they the philosophical treatises, what do you think? Is it one poster? Is it actually more of the chorus?

52:50It's very hard to know, but two things I would say. One is my post on state capacity libertarianism, which is still a good statement of where I am philosophically. I think that's held up well. And when I coined the term, that's the case where I was sitting there giggling. Like, oh, this term is so absurd, no one will ever use it. So it's just right. And people still use it. But I wrote a post about Emerge Inventures. We're at the Emerge Inventures winners meet up, and I outlined the philosophy behind Emerge Inventures. I don't think it's our most red post. I don't think it's our most cited post, but a lot of donors read that post and were persuaded.

53:26Without that post, I don't think we would have Emerge Inventures as a large thing. So given how much talent we now have over 400 winners have come through Emerge Inventures, that's like a super influential post. even though at the surface level it may not look that way. We try and keep either increase the over -to -the -window or trying to stop the over -to -window from shutting down. I think some of the COVID posts like on First Oasis first and things like that, even though in the United States we didn't do First Oasis first, but Britain and Canada did. Hopefully I may have had some influence there.

54:03But what I think is interesting is that when we did monkeypox, CDC went along with first doses first for monkeypox. So that's what I mean by sort of keeping that over to the window. So even though like no one's going to cite, you know, Oh, Tabrock said this on first doses for COVID, it made it possible for people to think that this is an idea we should be thinking about, right? And so the next time the virus of virus came around, you have a bigger pot of ideas from which to pull. And this idea which once seemed totally radical now seems, hey, maybe we can try this. So I think that has been... On first dose, first, there was a major decision maker from an actual country who just sent me a message, like, hey, do you guys really mean this?

54:56And I said yes. And the next day it happened. And now I'm not saying it happened because of that only thing. But people are really listening to an extent that is scary sometimes. Well, I think there are two vectors of influence from MR. One is the specific Jeff Post's specific ideas he put forth in the world that had a real impact. But there's another vector of influence which I think is more subtle. But it's probably how I would identify being influenced. because if you ask me, what are the five posts that have most influence me? I probably can tell you the five. But there's this general mood, a temperament, an approach to the world, a way of thinking about ideas, a level of hedonist, that kind of like a fish and water after hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of posts, just seep into every aspect of a world view in a way of thinking about the world.

55:44And I think that's the really profound legacy of MR to me as a reader. hard to put my finger on exactly how or where, but I think it's ultimately a much deeper level of influence. I'm perhaps a smaller number of people, but it's really, really incredible and I'm so grateful for that. Before I close, Vitalik, any general questions you had? Other things are curious about? So how did it happen that the two of you are on the same blog and Brian and Robin are often there on a separate playground? Could things have ended up differently? I can speak to that. And this is the origin story of MR. Correct me if I'm getting any wrong.

56:21But Alex came into my office one day and he said we we order right a textbook. And I said something like that's a great idea, Alex. But first we need to write a blog and become much better known. And then we'll write a textbook. And without Alex, I wouldn't have done it. And I love Brian. I love Robin. But I wouldn't have done it with them. And whether Alex might have done something with them, he could speak to. And I've supported their writing a lot, but I don't feel it meshes with mine somehow. The thing that Ben just outlined, this kind of cumulet division of a way to be. I think Alex has taken that is different than mine, but I feel his doesn't interfere with mine and it supports it and complements it.

57:02And for Brian and Robin, it doesn't. And that's why I didn't pick them. Yeah, I think that's great. We both have pluralist ways of thinking in a slightly different way. Yeah, that's why I agree with that. And it's worked well for the blog. You know, Tyler is obviously posting every day and I'm giving people a little bit more of the red meat, which sort of keeps coming back as well. So I think, and you know, we've done the book, we've done Marjorie Evolution University together. So we have a long history of projects which have come out pretty good. We've worked together now 33 years, I believe.

57:36Well, before MR, keep that in mind. We wrote a bunch of papers together. What would be the reason to end marginal revolution? Death, signility. Not superconductivity, though. Would signility actually end marginal revolution, I guess, a sufficient amount of it would? Well, you could take away the keys for me, Jeff, right? Okay, the responsibility lies in my hands. Yeah. Congratulations on entering your third decade of larger revolution. I think I speak for Ben and Vitalik and myself and all the readers that we look forward to continue reading and to hearing your ideas and seeing your influence in the world.

58:21So thank you Alex, thank you Tyler, thank you Ben, Vitalik, and thank you all for listening. Let's see another 20 years. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for listening to Conversations with Tyler. You can subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. If you like this podcast, please consider giving us a rating and leaving a review. This helps other listeners find the show. On Twitter, I'm Attyler Cowan, and the show is At Cowan Convose. Until next time, please keep listening and learning.