Big Company Learners to Emerging Brand Leaders

0:00This week on the NOSH podcast, how do two experienced CPGPG executives approach leading their teams? What should emerging founders keep in mind when developing their own leadership style? And ways to make sure company culture trickles down to all levels of the organization.

0:27Hi everyone, I'm your host Carol Ortenberg. On the Nosh Podcast, we go inside the business of natural, organic, sustainable, and healthy food. Today, we'll hear from two experienced CEOs about their approach to leadership and team building. Joining me today is reporter Adrienne DeLuca. Hi, Adrienne. Hey, Carol. So excited to be hanging out with you today. I know. I feel like I should start singing just the two of us, but I'll spare the listening audience that pain. You don't want to toss them a quick verse before we jump right into these questions? No, definitely not. as a little bit of background was when I was in the high school musical.

1:07You know, it was so coincidental. My mic actually would accidentally break every time it was time for my big solo. So I think that pretty much solidified my lack of a singing career for the rest of my life. What a coincidence that was. Well, Carol, moving on from the conversation between just the two of us, I know you talked to two CEOs recently that happened to make our NOSH Notables list. Could you tell me a little bit about that conversation? What came from that? So I talked to Chris Lansing, CEO of HealthAid, and Miguel Liel, the co-founder and CEO of Somos Foods, about their approach to guiding companies and teams through various stages of growth, while also keeping everyone motivated.

1:54And the two of them reflected on their decades in CPG, sharing some tips that are really I think, applicable to anyone managing a team. That sounds super interesting. Let's get to it. Hi, guys. Thank you so much for joining me today. And congrats on making the Nosh Notables list. Thank you for having us. It was such a pleasant surprise. Thank you for including Somos and me. And I was so happy to be in the same list as Chris. And I was equally delighted. It was a genuine surprise and it's a great company to be a part of. Thank you so much for supporting the industry. So you all made the list for being amazing leaders.

2:35To start off, I want to talk about how you approach leadership. What is kind of your leadership style? Miguel, how about you go first? Yeah, thanks, Carol. Somos is a very young company. As you know, we're just in our second year. I like to describe my style as a player coach. I am very lucky to be surrounded with very talented, competitive, young professionals that have a ton of upside. But a lot of times, because we are just getting started, we are establishing processes and going through experiences for the first time. So I sometimes like to take a deep dive into every function. I love to be in the trenches.

3:22I love to learn together. I think learning together and creating processes together is an awesome way to establish camaraderie. And, you know, something that we go through a lot of feedback sessions with the team and something that I've been told a lot is that my team enjoys that I bring calm when situations, when things are not going our way or when there is a lot of stress. So I try to remind that that's something that they value and bring that with me as part of my style. Does the calmness come naturally to you or is that something now you project because you know your team wants it? That is a great question.

4:05I think it is a little bit of both. I don't think when I started my career, it was something that would come naturally to me. and I am a big baseball fan. You and I have talked about baseball teams. You know, it's that thing that they tell pitchers of let the game come to you. You know, like I think it's a lot less now relevant with the pitch clock, but like set up, you know, kind of like the pace. And I think in business is the same, you know, how long do we have to make this decision? What is the hurry? You know, what are the options that we have? Just calming everybody down. I think it's something that I have learned, But I've also felt that it's something that other people have appreciated as well.

4:48So I try to maybe turn it down a little bit more than it comes naturally. Chris, how about you? What's your leadership style? I've been a CEO in my last two companies, which were both kind of emerging brands, very fast growing, dedicated people working hard to build the brand quite quickly. And what I found to be important at the very beginning is to get really clear on vision, because creating that vision that everyone can anchor to and see how all their work fits to it can add tremendous clarity to the organization. It helps us pick the right things that will allow us to achieve it. And then ultimately, my job is creating that environment to allow people to be successful to accomplish and put just enough structure, just enough data, but really strive for collaboration across all the groups to be able to work together towards achieving these goals.

5:46No one person can do it alone, but having that clarity up front and the environment that supports them is ultimately what I've found to be successful. If I looked back at both of you, let's say 10, 20 years ago, what did your leadership style look like then? How has it kind of evolved as you've grown in different roles? I would actually like to build on what Chris just said. about no one can do it alone. You know, I started my career at PepsiCo. I think, Chris, you did as well. And, you know, when I was at Frito-Lay and I was an ABM, you know, I definitely was very competitive and was trying to put a lot of points on the board myself.

6:36And after a while, I realized that what we do is a team sport. So now I feel like, you know, going back to my previous answer, more like the coach, you know, trying to get the most out of the people, I think, versus closing the finish line by myself. And I would even tell you, you know, right now, with Somos being also a player in the category versus trying to get all the share, you know, for ourselves, which we couldn't do anyway, you know, has proven a lot more successful than, than, you know, doing things alone. If we can convince more people to cook Mexican food at home and help retailers close the gap, the$30 billion gap in cooking Mexican food at home, it's not going to matter if we got a little bit more than our nearest competitor.

7:32It's going to be the tie that rises all ships, right? Carol, you asked about the transition over the last, you know, 20 years. I think with maturity comes a very different kind of leadership style. Like Miguel said, sometimes it can be you feel like early on you need to be the one in front of making things happen. It's all about you. But I think that maturity really allows you to kind of step back, realize that it's a team sport. It's so important to allow everyone to fly and to be able to coordinate and collaborate. And one of the things that I've done in my last three companies is to really integrate that into the company through the value of stronger together.

8:16It's a phrase that we use to really reunite us all. And it allows me to extend my reach as a leader because I so strongly believe in that concept that we win together. And if we're struggling, the only way we get out of that is by working together. And it allows us to celebrate and support each other. Chris, how do you make sure that style and that win together mentality trickles down throughout the organization and that everyone's kind of aligned and running their teams that way? We hire for it. It's one of the criteria that we use as we look at the soft side of candidates and whether or not they are strong team players.

9:00We also every quarter acknowledge it in our town hall meetings. We provide rewards for teams that are demonstrating stronger together behavior. And it's really become part of the vocabulary of how we talk with each other. And people rally to it because inherently we're all social creatures and we love working and winning together. It's been something that people have really been excited about and celebrated. If you have someone who's a high performer, though, who doesn't embody those values, do they still have a place at the company? It's very difficult. And it's something that they need to evolve to over time or, you know, or it isn't going to work.

9:47And I think having worked in large companies, as Miguel has as well, I think we can both remember examples of people who've kind of been a rough shot over the organization. In smaller companies, where you don't have the luxury of support structures and everything else, it's very difficult to be able to have somebody that cannot be a team player. Miguel, how about you? You know, what do you think about what Chris said and how do you make sure your leadership style trickles down throughout all of Somos? You know, I learned a lot about that from when I was working at Kind and it was through the value of ownership.

10:29And we took that value into Cholula and definitely into Somos right now. everybody at Somos is an owner in the company. And, you know, I think before I was a kind, you know, I always thought of ownership was owning a piece of the stock. But to build on what Chris was saying, it's really putting the company before you. So the stock plays a part of it. But, you know, we just went through a well, annual operating planning last week, And you couldn't really tell a person in the role who was in finance, who was in sales, who was in marketing. Everybody was, how do we realize the SOMO's vision in the market and opining on all the different functions and holding other people accountable.

11:23And that is really what I am looking for. I am looking for modeling it, not thinking of trickle down, but thinking of this ownership culture. And I'm also looking at my team feeling like that is the way that it works. Because if they see it and they taste it and they experience it and it is working for them, I know they are going to be the ones modeling to the rest of the organization. And I love what Miguel said about that cross-functional support. I've seen examples where marketing people will say, I will cut my budget because it's more important to invest somewhere else. Rarely does that happen in large companies where the reward structure might be a little bit different.

12:11But if you're all really focused on helping the company win, you make the choices that are going to be really optimal. And I love those discussions, you know, because then it elevates us to an ownership mentality. We just chatted a little bit about your leadership styles and how they've evolved. How have you gone about or go about getting feedback that perhaps there's a place you could improve upon? I think this is particularly important for young entrepreneurs who are developing their own leadership styles and maybe are trying to suss out what's working and what's not working? Yeah, I think it's very much through the culture.

12:56And, you know, when we started Somos, we had a vision, but we started the company at zero. I mean, Carol, when you and I met, our sales were zero dollars. I think we have done$10 ,000 and we have a PowerPoint deck and three people on the team. I really like one founder recently told me that now they're finally putting the P in P &L. Oh, I love that. I'm going to I'm going to steal that from you. That is excellent. So we were, you know, just getting started. And something that I realized on my first year was that even though I had to work with some of the people before, you know, in different experiences, they were not bringing me the bad news immediately and they were sugarcoating a lot of the issues that we were having.

13:52And in one of my conversations with my co-founders, Daniel mentioned that I should create a space where those conversations happen. And I realized it's really the two things together. It's one of them is the culture that we were talking about, this culture of ownership I think if everybody, you know, like Chris was saying, is looking for the goal of the company or the goal for the team on achieving the vision, it's a lot easier to have these conversations. But you need to prompt to create those spaces. So, you know, we've done things that's almost like, you know, feedback is speed dating in which, you know, every member of the team spends 10 minutes with someone else one on one giving feedback.

14:39last week that, you know, we got together to plan next year. We went around the room and I had everybody prepared a reason why you value everybody else on the team and everybody went around that. And I think creating those spaces and those opportunities at the end of every one-on-one, what else could I be doing to support you that I'm not doing today? You know, that was a big learning for me. And I see right now, as soon as, you know, something doesn't go in the way, immediately I'm finding out about it. Because, you know, people see that by creating this space and having this culture, it is not only allowed, but it is expected of them.

15:25Chris, how about you? It's very similar. I genuinely believe in creating learning environments and that really support continuous improvement. We're moving fast. We have big goals. We have big aspirations. We're charting an unknown future. So you've got to take a little bit of risk and you've got to try. And with that will come some setbacks or things that won't go exactly our way. the most important thing is first to try and then secondly to learn and be as self-critical as possible to evaluate and navigate to improve whatever might be not quite on track and making it okay to have those conversations it's not a personal slide on any individual look objectively at a business situation and how we can strengthen it.

16:20And people should be rewarded for quickly learning and improving. You also mentioned advice for a younger entrepreneur and how they could develop their leadership style. And I think for young leaders, it's so important to really continue to be true to their self. You know, you can't really be somebody else. You are who you are. But you can observe and kind of try on different techniques that you appreciate from leaders around you, from things that you admire. It's also important to think not only what works, but how does it make you feel? Because those are important attributes to incorporate into your leadership style.

17:06And again, I'll go back to maturity, being able to pause before reacting. It can be so important in a leader. Reacting too quickly, you could say the wrong thing, you could misspeak, you could set the wrong tone. A bit of a pause helps you really clear your mind a little bit and make sure that you're really focused on what's most important. Yeah. And just to build, I agree 100 % with what Chris said. I remember earlier in my career being very lucky to have mentors that I admire and I'm still in touch with them and they've been incredibly helpful. But sometimes what is successful for them was not successful for me.

17:52And more importantly, I want to repeat what Chris said, how that made me feel was that in line with my values. And sometimes what works in one organization and in one category doesn't work in the other category. I've been, you know, in this meditation journey over the last year that has been very helpful for me. And meditation is self-awareness in real time. So talking about like taking that second pause to see what is the bigger game that you are playing. I think that makes a big, big difference in the long term. And we often talk about the word authenticity, but when it comes to leadership style, people can tell if you're authentic or not.

18:42And if someone is inauthentic, that's not helpful for them. It doesn't necessarily build trust. It doesn't build a team. And finding out who you are, how do you best show up? what's the best environment that you can truly be yourself and be your best at, can only lead to success. I have to ask, what's a leadership style both of you tried on that did not feel authentic to you? Yeah. Earlier in my career, I worked for a large multinational company. And I had a CEO that was very authoritarian and he was incredibly successful. And I remember trying that on with my team and just feeling terrible about it.

19:36And one of my peers pulled me aside and said, hey, this can be very successful for the CEO, but you have to find a leadership style that works for you. And I remember perfectly that conversation. It was probably five years, you know, in the industry. I'm now coming on 25, So 20 years ago, and I've never forgotten it. And every time that I see him, I thank him for pulling me aside and giving me that piece of feedback. And I think to Chris's point, it's not only going to drive the success of what you do, but it's going to make you a lot happier. Finding your place and finding what works, all the other stuff takes care for itself.

20:28So similarly, I've seen styles in larger companies that have not been a fit with me personally. It's a combination of authoritarian, but also kind of the credit-seeking leader that I have seen in larger companies where folks are all about grabbing the spotlight, taking the credit to be able to get the promotions and to move up versus looking at the longer-term success of a company or a project and really being an effective leader. leader of that project. So it's that credit seeking part that I find inauthentic because, as I said, no one person can do everything, nor should they take credit for it all.

21:20Miguel, you mentioned meditation, though. How do you guys or do you guys turn off and take some time for yourselves? And is that something you've always done or it's something you've kind of realized is more important. Miguel, you said you've only started meditation in the last year. Yeah, I mean, I have been in this industry for a while and I think, you know, after, you know, Kettle and Kind and Cholula, there were, you know, three very successful brands that I was very lucky to be a part of those teams. I kind of, you know, felt maybe that I had figured, you know, what was the algorithm on how to work here.

22:04And starting Somos was incredibly challenging. You know, I felt the first year like I didn't have any experience in this industry, that I was doing everything for the first time. You know, the zero to 10, you know, it was a completely new muscle that I had never exercised before. And it is the best thing that I've ever done, but it's also the hardest thing that I've done. And I had to find a program that worked for me and make some changes, some changes. I started meditation. I took a lot more attention to my sleep. You know, I started reading more. I actually started reading a lot more fiction and not business books and just had to, you know, hydrate, do, you know, every day either exercise or do yoga to find the best version for myself so I could be the best team player for the rest of my team.

23:07And then after that happened, you know, just continuing with the theme, I think I I personally became happier. And then, you know, that's where I saw a lot of things in our business just starting to take off, you know, distribution, velocity, profit, you know, all the things that I was like striving to do. You know, I kind of felt like I had to, you know, show up in the best version that I could be in order for, you know, be there for my team. So then these things couldn't look. I'd say that turning off is not my core competency. We share that, Chris. I think we're in line there. I'm not meditating like Miguel, I'll be honest.

23:52Exactly. One of the things I find helpful and that I really enjoy is having some extracurriculars, having a few board roles, for example. It's still work per se, but it allows me to think about other business issues and challenges that opens my mind and actually makes me think a little more creatively about my own business from hearing about these different business discussions that I'm having on totally unrelated categories. So that's one thing I love doing and it stimulates me and I need that kind of stimulus. Because beyond that, balance with friends, exercise, the morning walks are all important just to kind of keep it all in perspective.

24:39Are there any programs you guys have to encourage employees to take the time for themselves? This morning, I was talking to my husband and he said, you know, my boss yelled at me today. What did you do? He said, well, it's a company vacation day. and I sent him an email and he told me to stop working. So what do you all do in your own organizations? We have a lot of activities that we have in place. We have a wellness program so that not only are team members reimbursed for their own personal wellness that they pay for, but we have wellness challenges every quarter. We happen to have one going on right now that includes meditation, which I'm not part of, but also drinking steps and all different physical activities.

25:29And there's a lot of discussion going back and forth on teams as to how people are achieving their goals. I'm taking a lot of notes because I love what Chris is doing. And as it relates to these efforts, I have been trying to do some, but I'm glad that Chris brought it up. I still think we have a long way to go. But we've been doing a lot of walking one-on-one. with my team. So we step outside, we have our one-on-one and we try to get into this rhythm of, you know, just moving the body or being in different places. Let your mind wander a little bit more, be a little bit more intentional in creativity.

26:11And, but again, a lot of more things and I'm definitely taking notes from Chris and HealthAid. That sounds amazing. We focused inward a lot. Let's turn outward. You know, it's kind of a turbulent time financially. Certainly, we read about a lot of layoffs or companies struggling. How have you gone about talking to your team and, you know, reassuring them while also keeping it real? Chris, you mentioned town halls. Is that something where this topic is addressed? Absolutely. Every quarter, we have the Healthy Gut Check, which is our version of town hall. And we do several things. First, we always talk about the vision mission of the company and the key goals.

26:57We then communicate very consistently and transparency about financial performance and business performance so that everybody knows where we are. And then it's important to continue to focus on what we can control and keep people motivated and celebrate the wins along the way. So they're in a turbulent Lent time, there may be some external factors that are beyond our control. But there are many other things that we can and the team's doing a phenomenal job on. So just continuing to keep that constancy of purpose, the small steps that we're making along the way to the broader vision and celebrating is the best way.

27:34Yeah. For us, Carol, we focus on two things, transparency and recognition. So, you know, because we are all owners of the company, everybody gets very excited when they see sales growth, share growth, you know, profit expansion, you know, that's those and definitely, you know, valuations of the stock, you know, those are things that are great. But I think equally or maybe more important than that is the recognition. And my team is excellent at connecting the dots between what team members are doing and how their actions relate to our mission of the company. And we really try to focus on that. We try to focus on the results that you did.

28:28How are they connecting to the overall mission of the company? And I feel a lot of times that goes even further than, you know, looking in Carta to the latest valuation of the stock. You just mentioned valuations. Thinking about employee communications, you both have led companies through fundraisers and exits. What has your leadership style been during that period? And how much do you convey to your team and how much do you hold back and why? When we sold Nature's Bakery, ultimately, to Mars, it was a very strange time because we were going through the sale process in the middle of COVID. All of our employees were owners of the company.

29:17Everyone knew that if there were a transaction, they would benefit from it. But as we went through the process, it was actually a very small group of folks that were aware of it and tightly involved in it. And that was done purposely to keep everyone focused on continuing with the company because otherwise could be quite distracting on things that they can't directly influence. So we ultimately did the entire transaction on Zoom and completed the acquisition having never met an individual in person at the end. How much of the team was involved in those Zoom meetings? just essentially the executive team.

30:05Ultimately, we did need to bring a few more people in under the tent, but it brought out tremendous creativity from my group. We were self-manufacturers and we had two plants that a global organization needed to evaluate. So my IT director took his toy drone and flew it across our manufacturing floor so that we could point out on this video to our potential buyers, everything that are phenomenal assets and everything that they might wish to buy. Okay. I have to ask, how did you create a cover story for the drone growing through the facility? It was on a Sunday and the line happened to be down.

30:52Okay. I was trying to think of a driving experience, checking in on employees. I wasn't sure where we were going to go there. To wrap things up, I want to go back through your history as a leader a bit. What's one piece of advice that you got about being a leader that you have actually discarded or you realized maybe wasn't the greatest piece of advice to be given? I'd say my worst advice was something I received in the 1990s at Procter & Gamble when I was told that I smiled too much. After scowling for the next several weeks, I really thought hard about the feedback that had been gingerly given to me because they knew that it wasn't a great comment and really thought about what does that really, what was, what were they really trying to say?