Please Continue (Criminal+)

9:23Lauren Spohrer:Big news in the eBay stalking story.

9:25Phoebe Judge:I don't even, but what is the eBay stalking story?

9:27Lauren Spohrer:Well, I would love to tell you. And I think we should also think about it as a TV show and cast it. But basically, two e-commerce bloggers, Ina and David Steiner, in the state of Massachusetts, they have a long-running blog, and they started off just sort of doing general e-commerce news. And then over time, their blog became more focused to help people who are selling things on eBay specifically. And so they would blog about changes to eBay's policies, and then often they would critique changes to eBay's policies. And eBay, including I think at one point publishing that the CEO of eBay earned more than 150 times that of the average employee or something, they managed to get under the skin of the CEO of eBay.

10:15Lauren Spohrer:And he texted another executive about Ina Steiner, take her down. And so then the executive who received this text message that said, take her down, went to the head of security at eBay. And me reading this story, I'm like, oh, and they're going to bust the CEO for being inappropriate. No, the head of security then is like being the muscle, like being the bad guy. And they start this harassment campaign against the Steiners. And being eBay, a lot of the harassment comes in the form of mailing packages to them. So they mail them live cockroaches, live spiders. Wait, the higher-ups at eBay are harassing these e-commerce bloggers.

10:58Lauren Spohrer:And so they mail them a bloody pig mask, a funeral wreath, huge amounts of pizza. They send porn with the man's name on it to neighbors' houses. And then they also start harassing them in person. eBay employees flew from California to Boston so that they could physically vandalize the couple's house and stock their car. And there were documented plans to break into their garage and put a GPS tracker on their car. And then there's all these text messages like saying that the Steiner, that Ina Steiner, the woman is a biased troll who needs to be burned down. And that they wanted to, quote, quote, to see ashes and that they should do whatever it takes.

11:42Lauren Spohrer:Uh, and then this is my favorite part. It culminated in a, what they called a white night strategy, which would mean another eBay employee comes forward and goes to the Steiners and says, let me help you figure out who's doing this to you. And so they could be the, so eBay could in the end be the good guy and win their goodwill and like quote unquote, unmask the person who was harassing them. Can you just see it as a movie? Anyway, there were a number of arrests. People did go to prison. When was this? I think it started in 2019. But then the Steiners filed a civil lawsuit against eBay and the outcome that finally reached a settlement last week.

12:24Lauren Spohrer:And in the end, the Steiners got$56 million. That's not bad. Isn't that just the craziest

12:30Phoebe Judge:story. I just can't believe that who was the bigwig who was directing the employees to do this?

12:38Lauren Spohrer:You want me to tell you his name?

12:39Phoebe Judge:No, no, no. I'm just saying. Oh, yeah. And just to like. To care enough. To become so petty. You and I have also been talking about the story here about the man who bought the house on the cliff. A man bought a house on a cliff very close to the ocean, to the bay, that is eroding. You know, the sand, there's a lot of erosion going on. And so he bought this house. It was very close to the water, to the cliff. And people said it's really close. He had a good deal on it, but it's really close, and it's going to keep eroding. And so, you know, last year or something, the town came and said, we have to demolish your house.

13:23Phoebe Judge:It's no longer safe. The foundation is now so close to the edge. We've got to demolish your house. House gets demolished. He still has a mortgage on his house. He is now refusing to pay the mortgage, saying he does not have to pay the mortgage because he was in a manic state. Clearly, he was in a manic state suffering to purchase a house that was so obviously unsafe and close to a cliff. Do you think that that's an argument? Did it work? I don't know. I didn't get that. Aren't you the one who sent me the article?

13:59Lauren Spohrer:No. You didn't? I don't remember. I'm doing a lot of hitting send. I think, well, the question is not, is it real? It's did it work.

14:09Phoebe Judge:That's right. Did it work? I don't know. We could Google it.

14:13Lauren Spohrer:I think Tom Cruise should play the CEO with the delicate, the eBay CEO with delicate ego.

14:20Phoebe Judge:Did you see Tom Cruise at the World Cup halftime show or intro to the World Cup, the final?

14:27Lauren Spohrer:No, I only saw a few celebrity photos from the World Cup.

14:31Phoebe Judge:He was in this outfit, this kind of black pants, clearly custom black t-shirt. It was a very, very interesting choice.

14:41Lauren Spohrer:Two things about Tom Cruise really stand out for me. One, this is not fact-checked. before he was famous and got his teeth fixed, he had one middle tooth. Like, one of his two front teeth was perfectly in the center. Do you know what I mean? Have you ever seen a picture of it? Just look at a picture of it right now. And then the other thing is I just saw that his daughter just changed her name. Dropped the cruise. All these celebrity kids are dropping. Like Brad Pitt's kids dropped Tom Cruise teeth.

15:12Phoebe Judge:Oh, is it this? No, that's when he had braces. This, this. Yes.

15:17Lauren Spohrer:Oh, no, that's not even it either.

15:19Phoebe Judge:That's got to be it, Lauren.

15:22Lauren Spohrer:What else could it be? That's like an advertising photo for a dental clinic in Turkey. Tom Cruise middle front tooth. That's what I'm searching for. Yeah, see, look. Dead center.

15:37Phoebe Judge:Oh, I see. Don't look at my teeth now.

15:40Lauren Spohrer:If you were a celebrity, would you get your teeth redone? I think I wouldn't. Do you think I need to? Well, I think they all do.

15:46Phoebe Judge:Veneers. Yeah. They all get veneers. Well, someone who tries to stay away from the dentist as much as possible, I don't think I would choose to go in if I didn't need to.

15:54Lauren Spohrer:I was thinking about that the other day when you were making fun of me for my neuroses, and then I was thinking that it was kind of elegant of me to not bring up the dentist in that moment.

16:02Phoebe Judge:What was the neuroses about the other day?

16:05Lauren Spohrer:Private. What was it, actually? It was about the boundaries with your gigantic dog.

16:11Phoebe Judge:So, Lauren and I, we've been here all week. We've been swimming. We've had ice cream. We've – what else have we done? Swimming, ice cream, a little bit of shopping, cooking. But when we haven't been doing that, we've been working together, mostly on the screened-in porch, on a new project. Well, what would you say about it, Lauren? I don't – we're – I'm working –

16:42Lauren Spohrer:Experiment feels really good to be experimenting. It is a sort of live event where it would just be Phoebe. And instead of telling crime stories like we normally do, like if you've never been to a live show, it's usually like six or seven visual heavy stories that have not been on the podcast before. And we try to make it move really fast, and we're conscious of what it means to sort of be at a podcast listening event. But over the years, we've experimented more and more with putting more personal stuff from Phoebe in there. And so we're thinking, like, what if it was just Phoebe telling some stories from her life that we have definitely never shared before?

17:24Lauren Spohrer:But not only that, but sort of talking about how those experiences from her life have influenced her as the host of a crime show. Does that do it? Yeah. So that's like a really weird new thing for us. And I feel like I've had unfavorable opinions in the past about podcast hosts who make things about themselves and their reflections. And so we're trying to think, how can we do this very well so that it feels really worth someone's time and attention? And it's not easy. And you need to feel comfortable, you know? How are you feeling? Are you thinking about it in the middle of the night?

17:59Phoebe Judge:I am thinking about it in the middle of the night and wondering. But it's never stopped us before doing something new, and so we're trying something new. But it is very different for us. It's very different for us because the whole point of the whole – remember when we started Criminal? The whole idea was let's have a show where the host gets out of the way, you know? Doesn't have to comment. Doesn't have to, oh, that reminds me of the time. Let me tell you what I think. Like, and this is very different, you know, it's personal. So, but.

18:33Lauren Spohrer:But funny.

18:33Phoebe Judge:Lauren keeps saying we need friendly audiences.

18:36Lauren Spohrer:Well, because I don't want you to be nervous. So I think if the audience is really, like, even with regular live shows, if the audience is stiff, you're stiff. And if the audience is drunk, you're happy. So that's what we need.

18:49Phoebe Judge:Yeah, I mean, I think that they, you know, people have nightmares about this. People have nightmares about standing on the stage and telling a joke and no one laughs. And, you know, in the past in live shows, you've been up there, you know.

19:02Lauren Spohrer:And I always laugh.

19:04Phoebe Judge:You're always smiling. But, you know, we're able to look at you. And, yes, it's just me talking, but I'm able to look at you and I'm telling other people's stories. So the idea of being up there all alone and telling my own stories is, yeah, I mean, it's pretty.

19:20Lauren Spohrer:Well, we'll come up with some parachutes so that if the audience hates it, you can just like pull the – and then you can just start telling fully canned Rodney Dangerfield jokes. We'll put them up on a teleprompter. Or we can just like cut out and put something on the screen behind you like America's Funniest Home Videos and you can just run away.

19:40Phoebe Judge:Do you remember when we did the live show and we had the very long video of Mark Rogers, the streaker in the Super Bowl? And it was just like so long. People wait so long to see what was going to happen. Yeah. We will let you know. We are finalizing it all right now. And we'll let you know when the tickets are on sale and where. We're going to go all around the country.

20:07Lauren Spohrer:I've been asking Phoebe to watch different stand-up specials that I love to sort of like observe the genre of one person talking. or one person telling one big story, but then lots of little side stories spun in. Well, I'm just going to remember what you've always said, the greatest compliment you've ever given me. Mistakes are charming.

20:29Phoebe Judge:No. Two greatest compliments.

20:31Lauren Spohrer:You're good at diving.

20:32Phoebe Judge:I'm a very good diver. And?

20:33Lauren Spohrer:Good at animal photography.

20:35Phoebe Judge:Yeah, the three best compliments you've ever given me. Diving, animal photography, and? Your favorite. I'm your favorite.

20:43Lauren Spohrer:And chaladas I've ever had. Are you doing it to be funny? Yeah. Well, it's not necessarily a compliment when I say you're my favorite storyteller. You are my favorite storyteller of all time. And I think these stories are going to be surprising.

20:58Phoebe Judge:Anyway, so that's what we've been working on. We've been here bumming around, doing all the work for Criminal and all the other shows. But also, in our free time, we've been trying to write this show.

21:10Lauren Spohrer:Do you think it's harder to record this sitting together than it is normally? I think it's actually fine. What do you think? I feel like it's more... Stiff? Well, I'm very uncomfortable.

21:20Phoebe Judge:Well, that chair is a nightmare.

21:22Lauren Spohrer:And also, I'm looking at you on a screen even though you're right next to me.

21:27Phoebe Judge:Would you like to switch chairs?

21:28Lauren Spohrer:No.

21:29Phoebe Judge:You've got shorter legs than me, so I can't help too much. I also have a broken toe.

21:34Lauren Spohrer:We got a very nice voicemail from someone named Gary. Can I play it for you? Mm-hmm. Hi, Phoebe and Lauren. This is Gary. I'm a longtime listener. Love your show. I'm going back and listening to the old ones and working my way back to current again. And I'm on bonus number three, the other Phoebe judge. And I'm from New England. And I was shocked by Phoebe's dislike of the fall. I think every New Englander loves it. knowing she's from Western Mass, even more so. So it was just a comment that took me just like it took Laura in her back when she mentioned the autumnal time of year. I really got a chuckle out of that when C.D.

22:22Lauren Spohrer:was asking her not to call it that. But just a comment, no reply needed. But I love your show, both of them. Thanks so much. Bye. No, I just like the sound of his voice.

22:37Phoebe Judge:Well, that's a real New England accent. That's a real Massachusetts accent.

22:39Lauren Spohrer:I like the way he pronounced my name, too.

22:41Phoebe Judge:That's a real Massachusetts accent.

22:42Lauren Spohrer:And I was thinking about that because it is freezing cold here today. You would think it was late October.

22:48Phoebe Judge:Well, we are now, we are firmly in the middle of summer. But I kept telling you that. I've been up here and I was saying it's cold, you don't need air conditioning. And you've been here before, so this wasn't, you know.

23:00Lauren Spohrer:I was freaking out about not having air conditioning. and it's been very cold. You're perfectly fine.

23:06Phoebe Judge:Oh, should we need to talk about George Saunders?

23:10Lauren Spohrer:Oh, okay. Time for the latest installment of Reading Club. We read a very short story, very, very short story by George Saunders. Called Sticks. Called Sticks. And we put the link in the Patreon, but if you Google it, you'll find it. It's extremely short. I thought I really enjoyed it. Did you read it? Yes, of course I read it. And?

23:30Phoebe Judge:Well, it's a real Phoebe Judge type of story.

23:33Lauren Spohrer:Why?

23:33Phoebe Judge:I loved it. I loved it. And as someone who, as you know, Lauren was here yesterday, as I unveiled my newest flag, came yesterday, I got a new custom flag for my sister Chloe, for CHJ, to fly on the pole. I loved hearing about the different outfits for the different types of occasions. I loved the different stick families around the crosses. I loved that. On the Patreon, Criminal Plus Reading Club channel,

24:15Lauren Spohrer:Catherine shared with everyone that if you like that story, George Saunders has his own reading club on Substack if anyone's interested. so that's the that's the type of community that we're building there chris said amazing how such a gifted writer can paint such a vivid story with so few words i totally agree um helen says i drive by a farm every weekend where the road curves sharply and the farmer has a mannequin out that he dresses up right on the curve to keep people from speeding that's a really good idea she's very seasonal witch's outfit for halloween yankees jersey for opening day red and white and blue stars and stripes for Independence Day.

24:50Lauren Spohrer:This weekend, she was back in her Santa suit for Christmas in July. Makes me smile every time and slow down. Catherine said it was so evocative. Another Catherine said, I love the author's explanation of how the story came to be. As someone with a frankly unhinged Christmas display each year, I wonder what folks imagine about me when they drive by. Did you read the description at the bottom of how? Oh, I was just going to read it. Oh, great.

25:12Phoebe Judge:So basically, if you haven't read the story, which you really should, it's two paragraphs long. It's a story of a man, kind of a gruff man, who dresses up these sticks in his front yard, depending on the holidays, depending on how he's feeling, and it kind of gets more deranged and odder as years go by. And when George Saunders published a piece in the contributor's notes in Story magazine where it first came out, he said, For two years I'd been driving past a house like the one in the story, imagining the owner as a man more joyful and self-possessed and less self-conscious than myself. Then one day I got sick of him and invented his opposite, and there was the story.

25:53Lauren Spohrer:So good.

25:54Phoebe Judge:So if you haven't read it yet, please go and read Sticks by George Saunders. It will take you two and a half minutes, and you will be very, very happy you did, and you'll be thinking about it all day. I was.

26:07Lauren Spohrer:We've been trying to get him to come on This Is Love for years and talk about how he met his wife. I loved that, the swim in the pond.

26:17Phoebe Judge:In the rain. But the Russian, in the rain, yeah. That's fantastic.

26:20Lauren Spohrer:I thought about that book this morning as we drove to swim in a pond in the rain. There's nothing better than swimming in a pond in the rain. I'm not going to lie. I was really having an internal tantrum on the way there. It wasn't internal. It was external. It was really cold. And I just was like, it was like 8 a.m. I was freezing cold. And I just was like, there's nothing cowardly about wanting to be warm. That's what I was thinking to myself. And then when we got in the pond, I was like, oh, right. Thank God I didn't miss out.

26:49Phoebe Judge:You never forget a swim or a run.

26:52Lauren Spohrer:Who told you this?

26:54Phoebe Judge:Who told you this? My mantra for life? Yeah, but where did it come from? From my head, Lauren, it's Phoebe Judge original. My whole life, I've stayed true to that. Never regret a swim or a run. So, Lauren, we are here together in person, so we're announcing big news. We're announcing that we're working on this new live show. That's pretty big news. The other pretty big news is that finally we have decided to change the name of this show. When we started Criminal Plus, it was Criminal Plus and you got lots of things. You get ad-free listening, you get the live events, you get the chat rooms on Patreon.

27:42Phoebe Judge:And you got this other show, which we just called Criminal Plus because it was the chat show in Criminal Plus. But it doesn't really make that much sense. I mean, so we internally have said, oh, we've got to record Plus, but it's a little confusing because there's this thing called Criminal Plus, but then there's this Lauren and Phoebe show, which is also called Criminal Plus.

28:04Lauren Spohrer:And they know because we've asked for their input. And sometimes when people say, sometimes people refer to the C-plus episodes, which I always think is very funny. That's good C-plus.

28:16Phoebe Judge:Isn't it? Well, for a while we thought about asides. You know, because this really isn't, any of you listening to this show knows it's pretty much just a bunch of asides. But that didn't really seem exactly right either. And then listeners, you know, write in to us often, thank you for doing it, please keep writing in with all of your compliments, comments, complaints. and said, I think it's very funny when Lauren interrupts Phoebe or says something after Phoebe has said something, and Phoebe doesn't respond. Am I saying this correctly?

28:55Lauren Spohrer:I think it's like if I'm laughing, and then you'll say, why are you laughing? Or you get annoyed or something similar, and then I say, please continue.

29:05Phoebe Judge:So we've decided to call Criminal Plus, same show, here we are, but we're going to start calling this show Please Continue. That's it. We're going to have a new tile for it. It's going to be a, well, it's a picture of us.

29:19Lauren Spohrer:A tile. That's not like a term everyone uses. What do you call it?

29:22Phoebe Judge:A logo. Logo?

29:23Lauren Spohrer:A little, these are the words that came into my head, iPod art.

29:29Phoebe Judge:and we're going to just start calling this so what would you say? I'm Phoebe Judge Oh no, we have to redo the beginning? Not for all of us, just try it out Oh, I'm so nervous Lauren I'm Phoebe Judge I'm Lauren Spohr Please continue

29:48Lauren Spohrer:That's not how it's got to be

29:49Phoebe Judge:I'm Phoebe Judge I'm Lauren Spohr Lauren Yes Please continue You're trying to make it into like a thing Not a thing. It's just like, I'm Phoebe Judge. This is criminal. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is criminal. I'm Phoebe Judge. She does this all day. And this is love. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is criminal. Just watering her plants, practicing. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is criminal. I'm Phoebe Judge. Sorry, it's making me feel sick. I'm Phoebe Judge. Please continue. I'm Phoebe Judge. I'm Lauren Spohr. Please continue.

30:26Lauren Spohrer:It doesn't work. I think you need to say, like, welcome to Please Continue. Okay. Or this is Please Continue. You're listening to Please Continue. We're the hosts of, or we could make a little, like, we could make a little intro. I'm Phoebe Judge. I'm Lauren Spohr.

30:41Phoebe Judge:And this is Please Continue. That works. Okay. First time. We just tried it out. First time ever. It has a little bit of the, like, SNL. Like, when they make fun of public radio?

30:51Lauren Spohrer:Yeah, it has a little bit of that.

30:53Phoebe Judge:Well, this could be a Saturday Night Live skit. Do you think, I think this could be a Saturday Night Live skit about those two.

31:00Lauren Spohrer:What if we just have like a, like a, we get like someone to make one that's like, please continue. You know, that's like a digital, like the way the cartoon has an intro and then we don't have to say it. What?

31:10Phoebe Judge:Like beatboxing?

31:11Lauren Spohrer:Well, you know, just like a, like a produced, a little produced intro.

31:16Phoebe Judge:Let us know what you think about the name. It's going to be, well, it's pretty much set. So let us know your compliments about the new name. Please continue.

31:23Lauren Spohrer:What does Frasier say? I'm listening. I'm Dr. Fraser Crane. No, I'm listening as like his tagline. I don't know what the name of his show is. I'm Phoebe Judge. I'm Lauren Spohr.

31:35Phoebe Judge:This is Please Continue.

31:37Lauren Spohrer:Do you like that? And then do you want to say like a podcast about... What is it about? Another idea we had was to make it sort of about an apocalypse, make the title about the word... Apocalypse. Involving the word apocalypse, referring not only to a real apocalypse, but to a private, personal apocalypse.

31:54Phoebe Judge:Yeah, it's how to prepare for real apocalypse, personal apocalypse.

31:59Lauren Spohrer:Just the apocalypse of everyday life.

32:01Phoebe Judge:Mental apocalypse. Just your one-stop shop for advice on how to flee from the tsunami, how to flee from cancer thoughts at 4 a.m. How to break up with your therapist. How to break up with your therapist. Protect yourself from aging. The apocalypse of aging, you know? You'll get your recommendations right here about what moisturizers.

32:24Lauren Spohrer:And the theme song could be Apocalypso.

32:27Phoebe Judge:Apocalypse Now. What about that, you know, the Apocalypse Now, that famous? Yes. And then it just comes flying at you like first aid kits, moisturizers, vitamins, lasers, airplanes.

32:42Lauren Spohrer:Speaking of laser, Phoebe. Pills. Your laser journey is working. I'm proud of you. Why? Because you didn't want to talk about it for a long time. And now you've had some laser treatments, and it's made a huge difference in your redness.

32:59Phoebe Judge:The way that you are concerned about my redness and have been—

33:02Lauren Spohrer:The first time I tried to talk to you about your red face was when we were in Iceland interviewing the prime minister. How long ago was that? No, well, it was when we were in the— Phoebe, I really actually want to talk to you as your friend about your face. It's very, very red. And you were offended. And so it just took a really long time for you to be open. To taking action.

33:22Phoebe Judge:Well, I am going back in two weeks to have another round.

33:26Lauren Spohrer:Oh, I thought you meant you were going to Iceland, and I was like, say more.

33:29Phoebe Judge:Lauren, should we do some things we've been enjoying lately in person? Yes. Anything you've been enjoying this week with me that you've been introduced to? Orange dry.

33:43Lauren Spohrer:Yeah, you can use that one if you want. Something about being here, maybe because we've been outside so much, I've been so thirsty that getting little drinks and teas has felt like an extra special treat to me. You know, that sort of desperate feeling you can get sometimes when you're away from home for a long time, where you're just like, I'm so thirsty. I mean, do you have so many bottles of water constantly around me? Something I've really been enjoying lately is soft serve. And I had already read that soft serve was taking over New York City. I had already heard that the hot trend is frozen Greek yogurt.

34:16Lauren Spohrer:Have you ever had that?

34:18Phoebe Judge:No.

34:19Lauren Spohrer:but I didn't have any of that, but I did see a lot of it in New York. Um, and so, and I also heard that soft serve is the new meetup for a drink after work. And so I went, I had soft serve on the Upper East Side at Butterfield Market. I waited in a super long line to get it. It was very expensive. I got coffee soft serve with no toppings. I'd be proud of that. Actually, that's not true it had oreo cookies i forgot um but the way they do it is they do some soft serve toppings and then more soft serve on top so you don't see the toppings so you look like you kept it together even though you do have hidden toppings it was great and then i had more coffee soft serve today and it's wonderful the first thing that i've been enjoying lately which is a

35:06Phoebe Judge:really odd thing for me to say but uh this came into my house last week and um it's a trader joe's product that I had not heard about. And when I saw it in the refrigerator, my niece requested this. I thought, Alex, what is going on here? Have you heard about this trend? They make something called protein pancakes.

35:27Lauren Spohrer:It's 22. They're pre-made from Trader Joe's? Yes. I've already been down this road.

35:31Phoebe Judge:In this little stack. Yeah. It's more like a crepe than a pancake. And I thought, but I, we didn't have anything here. I heated, we don't have a microwave here. So everything goes in the oven. I heated it up, and I wasn't expecting to like them at all. Fantastic. Fantastic. Protein pancakes. They come in like five, so you eat the whole pack. You heat them up. You could have it with Greek yogurt and berries, which I've been doing. And it's a wonderful treat. Frozen – no, not refrigerated section in Trader Joe's. Protein pancakes. And apparently they sell out a lot. So if you find them, buy yourself a few packs.

36:10Phoebe Judge:I think they're probably about$3 a pack.

36:12Lauren Spohrer:I'm ready to do the Trader Joe's episode because I've actually been going. I know. Let's do it. And some of the things I've been getting have not been very good. And the disappointment is noticeable. Like my expectations for Trader Joe's apparently are very high. Because when something's just fine, I feel pretty disappointed. So we should go. I thought about your niece's interest in protein, so I almost bought her a protein drink. proteins it's basically protein seltzer have you seen this i have yeah and it had 200 milligrams of caffeine that's the problem and i was like well i'm not going to buy this for an adolescent but like uh yeah just that's so not only are we putting protein in the seltzer but we're putting 200 milligrams of caffeine what's something else you've been enjoying um i think that's as far as I got?

37:04Lauren Spohrer:Good. This is on the fly. How about fresh-picked blueberries?

37:11Phoebe Judge:That's pretty good. It's blueberry season here, and wild blueberries, and if you're lucky, you have a neighbor or someone who has blueberry bushes and lots of them, and they invite you to come and pick blueberries, which we are lucky enough to have. So we have been picking a lot of blueberries, and you came to the house the other day and there was a gigantic jug of wild blueberries that had just been picked. And they are very different. Yeah, they're very small. But they're wonderful. And you have been rather cautious lately about eating berries and such because...

37:50Lauren Spohrer:I ate a salad today. That's the first salad I've eaten.

37:52Phoebe Judge:No, no, no. I remember the first night you were here I made all out of my garden the tomatoes and the cucumbers and the beans. It was all from my garden.

38:01Lauren Spohrer:Yeah, it was beautiful.

38:02Phoebe Judge:And you didn't have to worry.

38:03Lauren Spohrer:Yeah, but I haven't had a normal salad in weeks. So wild blueberries, your number two.

38:09Phoebe Judge:Or fresh-picked blueberries.

38:10Lauren Spohrer:What's yours?

38:12Phoebe Judge:The second thing I've been enjoying lately is the thing that I wanted to say last time, but I forgot. Walkie-talkies.

38:18Lauren Spohrer:Have you done this before? Have I done walkie-talkies? I can't remember. It's fine. Go on.

38:22Phoebe Judge:So this was for children who have walkie-talkies, and I wear one. and, you know, I wear it on my shirt. And so then at any moment they can talk and, you know, give updates or things like that. But I would like to just make an argument for walkie-talkies for adults. There's something so great about one, the lingo, 10-4, over and out. Copy. Copy. Knowing the right lingo. But also just you have to be smart about it. You can't just drone on. You know, even in text messages. Text messages, you just have to type, and so it felt like it was a short message, right? Be home in five. Now, text messages, you can talk your voice text, and so you can just drone on about nonsense.

39:14Phoebe Judge:Do you know what I'm saying? Sometimes you'll send me a text message, a voice recording, and it's just long. It's just droning on. No, no, but you know what I'm saying? There was an inherent kind of directness about a text message that I think now has been lost. With a walkie-talkie, you need to be very to the point. And I have just, I think they're fantastic. Do you need to be to the point or it's just like part of the genre? Well, because the other person, you know what could be good for couples therapy? Because the other person can't talk or interrupt until the one person's finished.

39:50Lauren Spohrer:Oh, that's so good. I heard that Orna from Couples Therapy charges$700. From what? Orna, the woman on Couples Therapy. I don't know what that is. The show. I don't know what that is. What?

40:02Phoebe Judge:I've never seen it. I don't know.

40:04Lauren Spohrer:Okay, well, never mind. Withdrawn.

40:07Phoebe Judge:So, yeah, walkie-talkies. And for any of you shrinks out there, couples therapists, please give me credit when you try out walkie-talkies for couples having trouble with communication.

40:19Lauren Spohrer:This is embarrassing. I've done this one before, but I'm going to say my number three is New York City. I hadn't been in a minute, and I had so much fun. I went to the Guggenheim and walked around, and I ate an incredible piece of pizza. And I don't know why I find it so relaxing, even in the middle of the summer. And after living in the suburbs for quite a while now, when I go back, I just feel impressed. It just like works. Like people just know how to walk in a small space together. People just like know how to, there can be like a line in a bagel place with 70 people in it and it moves very quickly and everyone shares the space.

41:01Like it's, there's something symphonic about it for me.

41:06Lauren Spohrer:And I had a great time. Can't wait to go back.

41:10Phoebe Judge:The third thing I've been enjoying lately is watching people set up tents and houses, little living, you know, set up their tents in the forest with their little blow-up beds and blow-up couches and their little wood stove.

41:31Lauren Spohrer:Where are you seeing this?

41:32Phoebe Judge:Instagram reels. I've been loving it. When I was a little girl, I always used to set up this little playhouse, and then I would take it right back down. But I would set it up in the middle of the living room, and I'd make my own little space in there, and I'd love to be in there. And I just – I don't know how they found me, these videos, but I watch them, and I love – they unload the tent, and then they set the tent up, and the little things, and the little rug, and the little wood stove, and they're nice and warm, and it's horrible outside. That's something I've been enjoying lately.

42:00Lauren Spohrer:If you were going to become a type of Instagram influencer, what would you pick? What do you think I could be? I just read an article that said that the bar is being raised, that it used to be you could become an influencer just by posting, like, you in your attractive yoga outfit drinking a matcha, but now people want more. So I think you have to have a skill or a point of view of some kind that people need.

42:21Phoebe Judge:I don't know if anything about me is made out to be an influencer in any way. You know, like, what would I – I could show you pawns.

42:30Lauren Spohrer:That would work. I got really deep on someone's channel the other day where the question was, is this rock thirsty? And then they put a wet sponge on a rock and watched to see how fast the water soaked it up. And you might think, like, that's idiotic. But being here, I pick up a beautiful, shiny black rock out of the water and I carry it in my pocket and I take it out of my pocket and it's just a regular-ass rock. It was only because it was wet that it looked so, so special.

42:55Phoebe Judge:Do you know that there are rock tumblers?

42:57Lauren Spohrer:Yeah, yeah. I'm just saying like you could build a whole influence thing just by off something so niche.

43:04Phoebe Judge:I know. I should find something.

43:05Lauren Spohrer:People like that. I think you need to give eight a voice. Practice different funny voices you could do for eight. And then you do videos from eight's point of view. Put a GoPro on eight's head. Give eight a voice. Just I think there's a few. What's the voice? This has legs. I'm not sure what the voice is.

43:21Phoebe Judge:Can it be my voice?

43:23Lauren Spohrer:No, Phoebe. God. Like give it a funny voice. Don't make 8 have Phoebe voice. What do you think 8's voice really sounds like? Tony Soprano. That's what her voice sounds like.

43:36Phoebe Judge:I think it sounds kind of like Chloe's voice.

43:38Lauren Spohrer:Ooh, like a raspy smoker?

43:43Lauren Spohrer:Well, something I could get into from the influencer standpoint would be tidying. And there is a big market for watching people tidy up a space. and when I think about the emotional labor of setting up a camera and then editing a video there's almost nothing that would make it worth it to me and that's all I think when I watch influencers whenever I watch a video of anyone on Instagram doing anything all I think about them is setting up the camera and editing the video and I just think like this is uh what are you doing

44:13Phoebe Judge:I'm showing you something that I think could be the next thing that I could do I think this seems Oh, scrimshaw kit. This is my scrimshaw kit. Remember I told you about doing scrimshaw? And this is my kit. This is my pocket knife. And then I will, I'm scrimshawing a hair. Do you see this hair? I'm making this hair. I'm going to do a scrimshaw on my pocket knife. How long do you think that will take you? Well, I'm chipping away at it every once in a while, but it's right here.

44:44Lauren Spohrer:You could do a different old-fashioned craft every few months.

44:49Phoebe Judge:Do you want to see a magic trick since you're here? Yes. Probably have a couple of tricks in one of these pockets. I always have a deck of cards around.

44:59Lauren Spohrer:Is that a card from my mom?

45:00Phoebe Judge:This is a card from your mother.

45:02Lauren Spohrer:I was like, I know that handwriting anywhere.

45:04Phoebe Judge:This is a card from your mother writing to me, thanking me for the donation I made when your grandmother died to the hospice.

45:14Lauren Spohrer:Speaking of hospice.

45:15Phoebe Judge:Are you actually going to tell this wild coincidence while I find a deck of cards? In the last, second to last episode of Criminal, the comfort kit, the memory care facility was my grandmother's memory care facility and my grandmother was there at the same time. And so was my aunt and my uncle in Evans, Georgia.

45:36Lauren Spohrer:We did not know that. This is my sanotype. I can't stop thinking about all the times I visited my grandmother and wondering if Rachel was also there. And thinking I think I would have noticed because I almost never saw younger people there. And when I did, sometimes I would try to be like, hey, I can't find my deck of cards.

45:54Phoebe Judge:Well, I guess I'll have to be for next time. Okay. Well, thank you very much for listening. I have a couple of requests.

46:00Lauren Spohrer:Number one, next reading club, we are taking suggestions. Number two, if there is a one-person performance that you have seen that you find interesting and provocative, send it to us so we can include it in our studies. Please, please, please.

46:16Phoebe Judge:Thank you all very much for listening and for watching. We will be back to you soon. If you have any thoughts for us, we're at hello at thisiscriminal.com, 833-822-7850. Lauren Spores on Instagram, and I'm phoebe.judge. We love to hear from you. So thank you again for listening and we'll talk to you soon. Bye-bye.

46:37Lauren Spohrer:Bye. And then you say, please continue.