The Bus Ride

0:01This episode is brought to you by DeeDee's Discounts. Back to school season is officially here and DeeDee's has everything on your list. I'm talking bold styles, cool kicks, backpacks, and even dorm room essentials. All the prices that won't hurt your wallet. So don't sleep on DeeDee's. Whether you've got a second grader or a sophomore, DeeDee's has your whole family covered. Find a DeeDee's discount store near you and go check it out today. I'm Seth Matlins, and this week on my podcast, Create or Destroy, which is a business show, a marketing show, and a show that argues they've always been the same thing.

0:37I sit down with JPMorgan Chase CMO Carla Hassan to talk about how she builds trust in 84 million customers when, amongst other things, her product is in many ways intangible. Turns out it requires real human connection and physical branches, enterprise-wide alignment, and the discipline to admit when you've broken it. Check out Create or Destroy Reimagining Marketing on YouTube and your favorite podcast app.

1:05There wasn't an official evacuation order until August 28th. And that's when Katrina turned into a Category 5. The mayor of New Orleans at the time, Ray Nagin, on that day, he issued the first ever mandatory evacuation order.

1:23Phoebe Judge:This is reporter Joel Anderson. And he called it at the time. He said it's the storm that most of us have long feared and that it was a once in a lifetime event. And so the city did start trying to make some plans for an evacuation. They did the contraflow lane reversal on I-10, which is the highway that runs east and west through New Orleans and on I-55 and 59, which goes north out of town. And then at that point, they decided to turn the Superdome into sort of a refuge for folks who couldn't leave town. But keep in mind, getting out of town is one thing to tell people to leave, but actually going through the process of evacuating hundreds of thousands of people out of an area in one day, that's really, really difficult.

2:09And it's not a surprise that it didn't quite work out like everybody expected. expected. So what ends up happening is that you got hundreds of thousands of people that are unable to evacuate and have to stay there. One of those people was a 20-year-old named Jabbar Gibson. Jabbar lived with his family in the Fisher Housing Projects, a complex of 15 apartment buildings on the west bank of the Mississippi River.

2:37Phoebe Judge:Did the majority of people at Fisher leave or did did people stay? Yeah, Jabbar stayed and the majority of people in Fisher stayed. I mean, consider this as public housing. These aren't people that have a lot of access to wealth. Where are they going to go? Like, even if they had a car and a lot of people did not have cars, where are they going to go? Where are they going to evacuate to? Who, you know, who has the money for a hotel? Maybe you don't have family anywhere else. So, I mean, what you're looking at is a really poor area, with really poor residents who don't have the means to go. And so they sit there and say, well, people are saying this hurricane is bad.

3:16We've heard this before. We're just going to wait it out. And it's not like they had any other options at that point.

3:23Phoebe Judge:It was 6 a.m. on August 29, 2005, when Katrina made landfall in Louisiana. I mean, Ray Nagin had said, this is it. This is the worst we've ever seen. But when did it start to become clear that that wasn't just him saying, the mayor saying that, but that things had gotten bad and were going to continue to get worse? It was pretty clear, like, right after the storm hit and the levee started to fail. And, you know, it wasn't the initial, you know, landfall from the hurricane that created all the damage. It was the flooding. And so as people realized, oh, snap, the water is rising. we've got nowhere to go, that is when, you know, sort of the danger of the situation really starts to come through.

4:11Phoebe Judge:Decades earlier, Congress had authorized what they called the Hurricane Protection Project, which involved the construction of a system of levees and flood walls to try to protect the city from both the Mississippi River and Lake Pontchartrain. One report estimated that when Katrina hit, 60 to 90 percent of the project had been completed. But before Katrina even made landfall in Louisiana, the levees started failing. Soon, at least 80 % of New Orleans was underwater, as much as 20 feet deep in some places. It's been called the worst engineering catastrophe in U.S. history. What did residents at Fisher tell you about how dire the situation was becoming?

4:58They talk about, you know, that the drainage ditches got swollen, that, you know, tree branches and debris had, you know, broken windows, knocked down doors. And then keep in mind, like the storm passes through, the heat comes back up. Well, now you don't have electricity. You don't have running water. You don't have anywhere to go get food. Your toilets don't flush. If you have a health issue, you can't refill your prescriptions because nobody's running any other drug stores. So it was really dire there. People were in a really bad situation. And at that point, you know, people are getting really desperate.

5:37I mean, you know, some people call it looting, but other people were just trying to get access to food, water, clothing, any other things that they ordinarily would not be able to get because they were basically abandoned in a drowning city.

5:50Phoebe Judge:And 20-year-old Jabbar Gibson was in the middle of it. Jabbar was the oldest of four siblings. Their father wasn't around, and their mother wasn't all the time either. So Jabbar often took care of his family as best he could. When he was in 10th grade, he got kicked out of school for fighting. So he spent his time working odd jobs and selling drugs. And Jabbar, you know, like any other kid, he sees all these kids that have nice things and wants them for himself and his family. So, you know, he hustled. Not only would he buy Jordans for himself, he would buy them for his family. You know, his brother, his younger brother, Troy, told me that, you know, Jabbar regularly bought him and his friend brand new pairs of shoes for their youth basketball games.

6:39His sister said that, you know, he would often give her stuff that his mother said that she couldn't have. He got Christmas gifts for them. He took care of dinner a lot. He just gave them cash. He was just sort of, I mean, in a way, he was sort of a parent. Or, you know, I guess maybe a better way to put it is sort of like an adult figure in the house. It's not like he was, you know, making kids go to school and telling her to do whatever, but he tried to fill in the gaps when his mother and aunts couldn't be there. Joel says Jabbar would try to make it to every single one of his brother Troy's basketball games.

7:17Troy told Joel, Jabbar was my father, even though he was only two years older. Talking to people that knew Jabbar at that time, they said that he just seemed a lot older than his age, even though he didn't look it. I mean, he looked like a little boy. But even as a teenager, you know, he had a way about himself. He seemed much older than he was in terms of his personality and his bearing. You know, his sister told me it feels like he's a mastermind. Everybody listens to him. And this is we're talking about a teenager here. Two days after Katrina, people in the Fisher Projects were still trapped.

7:56No food, no water, no electricity. And it didn't seem like anyone was coming to help. So Jabbar Gibson and his friends came up with a plan. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal.

8:17Phoebe Judge:We'll be right back. To listen without ads, join Criminal Plus.

8:32Phoebe Judge:Thanks to Fetch Pet Insurance for their support. You might know I have a dog. Her name is Eight. She's only a few years old, and luckily she's in great health. But last year, I had to take her to the vet after she ate something she shouldn't have. So I know firsthand that vet bills can be unexpected, and they can be high. Fetch is built so you can afford the best care for your pet. The most complete coverage for dogs and cats, according to consumeradvocate.org. You get paid back up to 90 % of vet bills for accidents, illnesses, diagnostics, and more. Every vet in the U.S. and Canada is a network, so you keep the vet you trust, and you can build a plan that fits your budget.

9:09Phoebe Judge:Once your claim's approved, you're paid back in as little as two days. Don't wait until your pet has a health problem. Go to fetchpet.com slash save for your free custom quote. It takes about two minutes. That's FetchPet.com slash save. Fetch. Love longer.

9:49Dee Dee's has your whole family covered. Find a Dee Dee's discount store near you and go check it out today.

9:58So they're sitting there in the fissure, you know, a couple days later, and they realize, well, you know, it's getting hot. We don't have any water, no food. And so they just said, well, we got to figure something out. And so Jabbar actually had the idea to go get some, to siphon some gas. And so they siphoned some gas out of a car, and then they had a truck that they thought they were going to be able to use to escape, but it wasn't reliable enough and just didn't work. So they had to abandon that plan. And so what happens then is that they're sitting at the Fisher, and they notice a school bus coming down the main drag that runs through the Fisher projects.

10:40and, you know, Jabbar goes up to that bus, flags the people down and says, hey man, where'd you get that bus from? And he said, hey bro, I found that bus down at Algiers Point. It's about two miles away from the fissure and which is kind of a few blocks away from the Mississippi River itself. And so Jabbar gets the bright idea. Hmm, I've got some gas. Maybe a bus will do the job. Had he ever driven a school bus before? No, absolutely not. He'd never driven a bus before. He figured out how to drive a bus the moment he got behind the wheel of a bus. Jabbar and his friends went to Algiers Point and found a barn filled with park school buses.

11:18And I thought about it. I'm going to see if I can drive one of these buses. Here's Jabbar. I decided right then and there that I was going to drive one of these buses, but I didn't know how. Jabbar and his friends found bus keys in an unlocked office nearby. So he started trying them. It took 30 minutes to find a bus that would even start. Finally, one did. Orleans Parish School Bus, number 232. And they had a full tank. I started it up. I didn't know what to do. I need the air brakes. I pulled the air brakes off. The bus went to move in. I kind of figured it out from there. And then they drive back to the Fisher.

12:04And so they get back to the Fisher. By this point, everybody kind of has an understanding of what is going on. They knew that Jabbar and some of his friends had gone looking for some transportation. And so there are people at the Fisher that are like, OK, we're going to wait on this guy. Like, maybe he'll be ready. And so when they get back, all hell breaks loose. Everybody was just standing out there, ready to leave. Like, every neighbors, people coming from different parts of the project, ready to leave. Just basically ready to pack up and go. There's people waiting in line with all their stuff on them and just waiting to get on this bus because, of course, they were desperate.

12:41People immediately started getting on the bus. But then the police showed up. Because, you know, it's actually, we're still in the bus. And we didn't have authorization to take those buses. But at that time, I didn't care. It was a state emergency. But still, Jabbar was nervous to be around police. Even at that very moment that he's corralling this bus and trying to get all these people there, he's also facing a pending charge of possession of crack cocaine. And a few weeks earlier, Jabbar had been arrested after leading police officers on a high-speed chase. It had ended with a crash. Some of the officers suffered minor injuries.

13:23So, you know, Jabbar is thinking, oh, man, the police are looking for me, or this isn't a problem. because also Jabbar had had several run-ins with the police by that time. So he had a lot of stuff going on, and he was well-known to the police. So when they showed up, it made sense that he figured that he better get out of there. The police took the keys to the bus and made everyone get off. But Jabbar's mother tried to convince them to give the keys back. What she told me was that, well, look at these people. They're desperate. There's nowhere else to go. Nobody is coming to save them. Nobody's doing anything for them, bringing them goods, services.

14:00They don't have water. She said, look, we need somebody here to help these people. And for whatever reason, the officers listened to her and gave him back the keys and told them to get on the bus and don't stop. Y 'all get on the buses, y 'all have to leave now. And he let us take them and leave out. People got back on the bus, about 60 in all. There weren't enough seats for everyone, so people sat on each other's laps and stood in the aisle. We got it done. Some people and some people were scared. Some people were scared. I didn't know if I can drive that bus. Someone took a photo of the bus with Jabbar behind the wheel.

14:43So you've got Jabbar who, as he says, he looks like he's 12 years old. He looks like he's got a middle school student behind the wheel of a bus. and there's a woman holding a toddler in her arms right next to him. And it is crowded. Like, it does not look like there's a lot of room in this tight little yellow school bus. And you've got this young-looking Jabbar Gibson staring right ahead, driving a bus for the first time in his life.

15:10Phoebe Judge:Do you remember being scared, you know, as you were driving off, thinking, I've got all these people's lives in my hand here on the bus? Yes, I was scared.

15:23Phoebe Judge:What was Jabbar's plan? Where was he headed? He didn't really have one. Now, he had heard from some people in the Fisher and around about going to Texas, where some of the Katrina evacuees were already headed. So, you know, he figured that's as good a place as any, and that's probably far enough away from where the storm is going to be. So he gets on the freeway and gets the hell out of there and starts heading west on the freeway. But even before they get on the freeway or the highway, they're pulling up to State Highway 90. And this is the only route off of the West Bank in the New Orleans area.

16:05Like I said, you know, there's only one way in, one way out. And so there's a barricade there that the police had set up for whatever reason. And right there at that barricade, the cops are standing outside with several people who had had similar ideas to Jabbar. Apparently, they had taken a few mail trucks and were trying to get away. So the police are dealing with these people at the barricade. And Jabbar, seeing that these police are preoccupied with the people at the mail truck, just gently glides by the barricade and gets onto the highway. And the officers never bothered them. They just let them go.

16:37And so they kept on going and headed west. Jabbar says the roads were packed. Cars were lined up bumper to bumper and moving slowly. There were also people trying to evacuate on foot. Eventually, Jabbar started taking on more passengers. Anyone that was on the side of the road that would flag me down, I stopped. He told me about that, that the bus is already crowded. There's a lot of need on there. It's just chaotic, right? But Jabbar sees people walking along the highway, and he starts picking them up because he said he just couldn't leave them behind. And consider, I mean, some of the people that are on there, they're dealing with the trauma of the hurricane.

17:17They're sick, disabled. Some were pregnant. So, you know, Jabbar just, you know, told me, he's like, I just could not let those people stay there. I had to bring them with me. So he picked up at least several people along the way, which is, you know, quite the generous thing. I mean, it's not like they had a lot of space on that bus already. Did they have any water or food? Not really, or not at first. But when they did get food and water, a surprise, it was Jabbar who took care of that. Every time they stopped, Jabbar was the one who got off the bus to buy whatever people on the bus needed. And Jabbar told me there's a reason he did that.

17:57He didn't want a bunch of people running off the bus trying to get stuff. Like, you know, if they had to stop and go to a convenience store or go to a restaurant or, you know, meet each person's individual need, that probably would draw a lot of attention to law enforcement. And as we mentioned earlier, he had stolen a bus. So he figured that I'll be the one to take care of everything. I'll be the one to buy stuff for people. And especially as one of the few people with money on there. And so that's the way that it worked. He bought snacks and diapers. He told me that he thinks he spent about$1 ,200 during the trip.

18:32They also had to get gas, which Jabbar says was hard to figure out how to do with a school bus. You know, sometimes I'm going to pull up and get gas and don't know how I'm going to pull up to the gas pump like. I don't know if I can do this.

18:49Phoebe Judge:It must have been a terrifying ride. I mean, you knew you were getting to safety of some sort, but also just total confusion. Yeah, no, I mean, imagine being driven from your home and not knowing what comes next, right? You know, it's terribly traumatic, scary. You don't know what the future is because, in addition, I mean, you're leaving. You don't know if your home is going to be there. The way that the forecasts were going, like, you don't know if it was going to be ruined by flood water. So you've got all your belongings there. You don't have a job. You may not know anybody in Houston. And also, you've been split up from your family.

19:27And so you're worried about the people that you can't get in touch with. And did they make it out safe? If they did make it out safe, where did they go? And yeah, so it was very, very tough, very scary. Jabbar drove for hours. And a little over halfway to Houston, they stopped in Lake Charles, Louisiana. And Jabbar's getting a couple chests of ice and some water for the people on the bus. And it was the cashier there who told them that the Astrodome in Houston, which the Astrodome, first indoor stadium in America. I have to say that as a proud Houstonian. But the cashier told them the Astrodome was being opened as a shelter for Katrina evacuees.

20:07And he says, hmm, maybe that's where we need to go then. So they head on to the Astrodome from Lake Charles.

20:19We'll be right back.

20:43room essentials. All the prices that won't hurt your wallet. So don't sleep on Dee Dee's. Whether you've got a second grader or a sophomore, Dee Dee's has your whole family covered. Find a Dee Dee's discount store near you and go check it out today. The Hulu original series, Furious, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+. There are three victims we know of. The suspect is female, white, late 20s. Female serial killers. Kill for power. Control. I believe there's a deeper motivation here. You have no idea who you're dealing with and you are going to end up dead. I've been waiting for you. Watch the Hulu original series, Furious, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus.

21:26For bundle subscribers, terms apply.