The Confession, Part 1

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1:07Who are you really? Introvert? Extrovert? Maybe you're a Pisces. According to some scientists, we're thinking about it all wrong. I always say that, you know, academic personality science needs, like, a PR person because we're not really good at spreading the word on what personality actually is. That's this week on Explain It To Me, new episodes Sundays wherever you get your podcasts.

1:36At that time, it was just kind of like, you know, just underground artists that weren't really, like, you know, signed to labels, but, like, were doing stuff on, you know, like, whatever beats they wanted to do, you know, just kind of like an underground scene, you know what I mean? This is Trevelle Coleman. When he was in his early 20s, in the mid-90s, he was a rising star in the underground rap scene in New York. He was known by his stage name, G-Depp. Trevelle had always loved music. When he was younger, he'd make his own cassette mixtapes. He had a dual cassette recorder that allowed him to record snippets of songs and beats on top of each other.

2:19And then he'd record himself singing along, sometimes other people's songs, or songs he'd make up. Travell would play the songs for his mother, and she eventually bought him his own keyboard and sampler. His mother loved music, too. She always had something playing when Travell was a kid. My mom, my mother, you know, she was a young mother, so she, you know, she used to play music a lot, and, you know, I used to, I remember just sometime needing it to go to sleep. Like, you know, like if she had it on really loud, the louder the better, you know what I mean? And I could lay there and just, you know, just go to sleep.

2:59It was kind of soothing to me. Do you remember some of the people that she liked? What music she liked to play? Yeah, she used to like Kool and the Gang. You know, Luther Vandross was one of her favorites. You know, Michael Jackson. Did you like the music too, or did you just like the fact that there was music on? or did you like Michael Jackson? Did you like Luther Vandross? I mean, it was a little bit of both. I really didn't understand what was kind of playing until after a while, you know, we started watching TV a little more, and I was able to associate who was who. Oh yeah, that's Michael Jackson right there.

3:37And, you know, she had albums of, I don't know if you remember the Michael Jackson Off the Wall album where he was standing on the wall, so I knew what he looked like. and, you know, so I was kind of familiar with music. Did you ever think when you were young, maybe one day I'll be a musician, I'll get into music myself? I mean, not when I was really, really young. You know what I mean? When I was really, really young, I thought I was going to be like a bodybuilder or something. You know what I mean? I'll never forget that, man. There was a little kid on Ripley's Believe It or Not. I don't know if you remember that show.

4:15And the kid was about eight years old. He was like a super, super buff. And I always looked up to that as a youth. I was like, wow, man, I want muscles like that. But, you know, I didn't really, you know, follow up with that. But, you know, that was my first aspiration, though, to be a bodybuilder. Travell remembers he spent a lot of time outside with his friends. They liked to play basketball. Like, we would cut like a crate, the bottom out of the crate, tie it to the fence and play basketball, you know, stuff like that, you know, normal stuff. Travell went to a performing arts school. He took a lot of drama classes and was in a few plays.

4:57He learned how to play the trumpet, and he took a class in acrobatics. They came one day and they were like, yo, listen, we need some acrobats for this opera. or it's gonna be in Lincoln Center, so who's your best acrobat?" So they pointed at myself and two other people, but nobody, like, it was only, they pointed at like four of us, but only two of us wanted to do it. Everybody else, I ain't doing that. And they say, we're gonna pay you$75 a show. So, you know, I was like, wow, that's great. I'm telling you, I was in eighth grade, you know,$75. I was, you know, a pair of sneakers or whatever, you know, whatever, you know.

5:34So my grandmother, I told her about it when I went home. And she was like, I'll take you, you know. So she used to take me every Saturday. It was just a fun memory of me and her. Tell me about your grandmother. Were you close to her? Yeah, that was my girl, man. She was, you know, she was, when I was younger, she was like, you know, kind of harder, like the traditional grandma. You know, oh my goodness, don't, you know, don't get grandma upset, you know. But as I got older, you know, I started to get to know her, and I started to really understand who she was, and I just felt in love with her even more, you know?

6:11Travell remembers his grandmother had a good sense of humor. He says she was always laughing. He eventually moved in with her in Harlem after his mother got married and moved to New Jersey. And he says it was around this time, when he was 13 or 14, that he started selling drugs. It was just one of those things where, you know, believe it or not, it was kind of like a status symbol where I lived out to, you know, sell drugs. You know, you were kind of like, you were in the in crowd, you know what I mean? So, you know, that was kind of just, it was everywhere. All I had to do was just come outside, you know what I mean?

6:47And what were you selling? Oh, I started selling crack at first. Were you making money? Yeah, I was making a nice amount of money. I mean, you know, for a kid,$20 was a nice amount. You know, I just wanted to just go to the store and buy some candy or whatever, you know what I mean? So I wasn't really worried about how much I was making or whatever. I just was doing it. You know, at that point, it just seemed like that was all I had, you know what I mean? Like, I really didn't see any other, like, option, you know what I mean? Travell spent a semester at college, just outside the city, before dropping out.

7:32He told his mother he wanted to try to become a rapper. He and a friend would pool their money to pay for a few hours here and there at a recording studio. They'd record a handful of songs, and then they'd try to play the songs for people who might be interested or know someone in the industry. Sometimes they'd stand outside record label's offices, Def Jam and Atlantic, and try to get people who work there to listen to their tapes. He was still selling drugs. He says that's where he got the money for the recording studios. Travell also decided to buy a gun. He says it felt like something he was supposed to have, just in case.

8:14It was like an accessory, you know what I mean? Like, you know, you got, you know, your keys, your wallet, you know what I'm saying? It was just something, it was an accessory. He says he never used it until one night in October 1993. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal.

8:44We'll be right back.

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11:12In October 1993, Travell Coleman was 18 years old. Late one night, he was riding around Harlem on his bicycle. And I didn't plan on actually doing anything. I just had a gun. And I was riding around, and I happened to see a guy, you know what I mean? And I was like, okay, well, you know, I could just rob this guy, you know. He remembers seeing a man smoking underneath some elevated subway tracks. He says he got off his bike and pointed his gun at the man and asked for money. And then, he says, the man reached for the gun. And, you know, I wound up, you know, doing something that I didn't, you know, mean to do.

12:01You know, I wound up shooting the guy. And, you know, we kind of struggled, you know, for the gun. And like I said, I wound up shooting the guy. Travell says he quickly got on his bike and left. And, you know, I came, you know, after that happened, I came back around, you know, the block just to, you know, see what actually happened because I kind of ran. and I came back around, you know, and it was like that fast. There were already people on the scene, and I like kind of looked, and I saw people like kneeled over him. And so I kind of just, you know, I was, you know, then I started seeing sirens and, you know, flashing lights.

12:48So I just, you know, jetted into the projects. But I never knew what happened, though, you know what I mean? I wasn't sure what happened that night. What happened when you went home after that? Well, when I went home, I just, it was one of the things, I just kind of like buried my head in the bed. And I was like, kind of like wish that didn't happen. You know what I mean? It was like, it was just like a kind of like a nightmare. You know what I mean? And I remember just like laying on my stomach with my head in the pillow. Like I couldn't believe it. And then I just, and I just fell asleep. I just kind of like passed out.

13:29Did you, were you thinking to yourself, I wonder what happened to him? Yeah, you know, it was kind of like mixed emotions. It was like, what did I just do? Like, what happened? You know, like, I hope nothing happened. And like, no, this didn't happen. And then I just kind of just went, you know, just fell out with those thoughts. When you woke up the next morning, did you tell anyone what went on the night before? Nah. Nah, I didn't talk about it after that. The next day, did you hear anyone talking about a shooting that had happened? Yeah, actually, when I came out, I was riding the same bike, and some officers kind of, like, pulled me over.

14:19And it was, like, weird. I was like, oh, here we go. You know, I really, I really, I was like, could they, you know, I was like, how could they have known, you know, something like, you know, to that extent. So I was like, you know, but I was nervous, you know, and then they, so they pulled, they said, they asked me, they said, do you know anything about a shooting that happened last night? And I was like, nah, you know, but, but, but by them saying shooting, I kind of felt like, I thought maybe he was like, all right. because they didn't say, like, murder or anything like that. So I was like, okay.

14:55And that kind of, you know, kind of eased me, eased my, you know, even though I know it was still, like, bad, you know, but I was still like, well, he didn't die. You know what I'm saying? So I was, you know, I kind of was like, you know, kind of eased my mind a little bit. You must have been so nervous seeing those police come up to you. Yeah, I was nervous. I was riding a bike. I'll never forget I was riding the same bike, and they just pulled up in the street. And I just happened to catch their eye, and they just like, come here. You know what I mean? And then they was like, yo. And I said, I don't know.

15:32And they let you go? Yeah, they just let me go. What did you do with the gun? Well, I had it for a second, and then I went and threw it. I had it in a box and then I went and threw it in a river. You know, I saw that in the movies, you know, so I said, all right, let me do that, you know, just get rid of it. So that's when I went and did it. Did you think in the days later, kind of the following days, were you always thinking to yourself, at any minute I'm going to be arrested, the cops are going to show up, they're going to stop me? Yes. Ten days after the shooting, Travell was walking around with friends when a police car pulled up.

16:22He was handcuffed and taken to the police station. He kept asking what was going on, and remember someone said something about a gun. He kept waiting for the police to say something like, we got you. But they didn't. And then he was released. It didn't have anything to do with the shooting. Later, he was arrested again for selling cocaine, three times in two months in 1996, and ended up serving seven months in prison. Were you ever thinking, if they found out that I shot someone, I could be in here for a lot longer? Yes. Yes, that's what I thought a lot. You know, it was like a grave fear. It was a grim feeling.

17:14to think about that. And I used to look around, you see the older guys, and you see if, you don't know their situations, but you just think they've been in there forever. You know what I mean? So he's like, wow, I'm going to be one of these guys that's just been in jail all his life. And the fear used to be really, really heavy and intense. Because I can imagine that they've got you in prison right now. So I'm in prison right now. All someone needs to do is figure this out, and I'm never walking out. They've taken the first step away of getting me in here. You hit it on the nail, Phoebe. I'm not really going to lie.

17:53That's actually exactly the feeling. Like, I'm never going to get out of here. You know what I mean? Like, I'm feeling like it's a possibility that I'm not going to walk out of here, you know, and then I'm going to have to be in here for years. You know, when you're young, you can't fathom years. You know what I mean? So it's like, I was like, you know, it was bad, you know. But I just kind of just got around, you know, I just got through the time and came home. When he got out of prison, Travell decided to try to focus on his music. By this time, people were starting to know who he was. You know, I had a song that I did, and somebody had heard it from the industry called Gangstar.

18:40I don't know if you remember Gangstar. But they heard it. And so one of the guys, the way they heard it was a guy from my neighborhood was in their group. And he told me that they shouted me out and put me on the back of their album. You know how they put the credits and they put my name. So that was like my first taste of the industry. So I'm like, wow, people know my name. But that was a little bit before I got locked up. So when I came home, I kind of had that motivation because of that. I was like, well, I felt like I was part of the culture at that point. So I kept doing mixtapes and stuff like that.

19:22And I did a demo in a song called Dollar Bill. And Black Rob, I don't know if you know who Black Rob is. He was signed to Bad Boy, Bad Boy Entertainment at that time. And he heard the song. He was like, I like this guy. I want to meet him. And I met him. Long story short, he wound up putting me on his album in 1998. He said, yo, I want you to get on my album. And he wound up, he really called me and said, yo, you ready? And I was like, wow, really? He was like, yeah. When Travell got to the studio, someone from Bad Boy Records, the label founded by rapper Sean Combs, was there too. He was like, yo, look, would you want to sign to Bad Boy?

20:04And that's just how that went. In 1998 I got signed. You know at that time, that was the biggest label, biggest rap label probably in the world. You know what I mean? They had Biggie, Biggie Smalls, they had Mace, they had Black Rob, they had Craig Mack, Total, Puffy. You know what I mean? So it was like that was the label to be on. You know what I mean? So it was like, you know, when they asked me to sign, it was like a dream come true. I was like, wow. They were just huge, man. They were everywhere. So it was definitely an honor to be, you know, considered, you know. Travell remembers his grandmother was very proud of him when he told her the news.

20:49I used to walk in the door, she's like, bad boy. Tell me about how life changed once things started happening. Well, it kind of, you know. Did they give you a lot of money? Yeah, I got a significant amount of money, especially, you know, for my, you know, at the time. You're talking about 1998. You know, I signed for like$350. He remembers he got a nice apartment for his girlfriend and their new baby. I just took care of my family, you know what I mean? You know, we moved and I just had a daughter. So that was just right on time. it was definitely a blessing because I just had a daughter. By the time he was signed to Bad Boy Records, it had been five years since the shooting.

21:37You know, the euphoria of being signed, when it wore off, that's when I, you know, started, I was right back to, you know, how I thought again, like, okay, now, you know, this would be terrible if they come down, you know what I mean? Like, you know, so that's when I think I started, like, using heavy drugs a little more. Like, not heavy, but I just, you know, I had, I just started using drugs even more. Like, more weed, more liquor, you know what I mean? I wasn't doing anything else but that. But it was like, you know, I was trying to kind of, like, you know, just, you know, forget. Just be on autopilot, like, you know what I mean?

22:19Because I felt like, you know, whatever's going to happen, it just needs to happen. you know but I'm not gonna you know I can't think about it right now you know what I mean you know I just it was one of them things that must be such a horrible way to live worried all the time yeah yeah it was because you're never you're never really in your right state you know what I mean you kind of always you know you're kind of like an animal kind of like you know what I mean that's kind of just like you know erratic and you know not really thinking you're not you're not really You're being and functioning the way you should be functioning.

22:52So that's kind of how I was, you know? I was just kind of like, you know, just existing, you know, just taking whatever came my way, you know what I mean? In 2001, Travell's first album was released under his stage name, G-Depp. The singles from the album Let's Get It and Special Delivery both made it into the top five on Billboard's Hot Rap Songs chart. Vibe magazine gave his album 4.5 out of 5 stars. And the website Rap Reviews wrote, G-Dep is the latest protege of rap's royal family. Travell was featured on songs with other artists, including Missy Elliott, Snoop Dogg, and Genuine. He was invited to appear on Soul Train, the very famous variety show that had hosted stars like James Brown, Aretha Franklin, and Michael Jackson.

23:48And then, in 2003, Travell's grandmother died. She was 73. You know, she was kind of sick. I didn't know she was sick. You know, she was the type of person that she didn't really tell you, you know, what was going on with her health. Like, she would, like, insinuate, like, you know, I'm not going to be here forever. You know, one of them things. But, you know, she, when she passed, you know, it was kind of like, you know, I didn't really see, you know, I didn't really understand how much, you know, she was, you know, how big of a part that she played in my life until she left. you know I was like you know kind of like it's like I kind of got hurled into like you know really really being responsible for my life when she passed and I think that had a lot to do with you know the way I started thinking you know what I mean cause it was like you know there's no buffer between you and and reality anymore you know what I mean You know, and I think that's what, you know, when family members pass, I think that's what happens.

25:09You kind of get more and more in touch with, you know, reality, like who you are, what you've done, you know. So, you know, when she passed, that's kind of what I went through. I kind of started realizing that I had to, you know, step up to whatever I had to step up, to deal with, you know. After Travell's grandmother died, he says he started doing even more drugs. Then I started smoking PCP. I started smoking dust a lot, you know. This was probably about 2003, 2003-ish. As soon as she passed, I started, you know, I was kind of indiscriminate. I didn't really care, you know, as far as like, you know, trying to uphold some type of, you know, discretion or anything, you know, I was like, you know, it doesn't matter, you know.

26:11What happened with your music career? Was it starting to kind of fizzle out because you were just not able to be there and be doing it in the best way you could? Right, yeah, that's actually what happened. And, you know, after a while, the label started, you know, you know, they started seeing that I wasn't as serious as I should have been, you know. So, you know, after a while, you know, people can only, you know, they tried to, you know, get me to go the right way. Yo, listen, man, you know, you should maybe, you know, try to clean yourself up, try to, you know, you know, they didn't really know what was going on.

26:49But after a while, they started being a parent. Like, well, yo, listen, you know, you're going to either have to go to a rehab or, you know. And then soon or later, they just backed up, you know. They were like, listen, you can get yourself together and, you know, call us. You know what I mean? It was one of them things. About a decade had passed since that night in 1993. By now, Travell had met a woman named Crystal Sutton. They had twin boys together, Tyler and Travell Jr., and they got married. In those years, was that night still coming in kind of your lowest points? Were you still thinking about that night?