The Confession, Part 3

0:00Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start? Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin, or what that clunking sound from your dryer is? With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top-rated pros, see price estimates, and read reviews all on the app. Download today. Support for this show comes from Odoo. Running a business is hard enough, So why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odoo. It's the only business software you'll ever need.

0:38It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com.

1:27like satiated and turned more or less completely to living wisely and well. Listen to The Gray Area with me, Sean Elling. New episodes every Monday, available everywhere.

1:42Travell, how are you? I'm well, I'm well. I'm very grateful and I'm happy to be talking to you on this side. On this side. How long have you been out? Well, today will be like a little under a month. Thursday will be a full month, a full full weeks.

2:06Last month, Travell Coleman was released from prison after nearly 14 years. We first met him at Fishkill Correctional Facility last summer. In 1993, when he was 18 years old, he shot a man three times in Harlem. And I didn't plan on actually doing anything. I just had a gun. And I was riding around, and, you know, I happened to see a guy, you know what I mean? And I was like, okay, well, you know, maybe I could just rob this guy, you know. Travell rode away on his bicycle without knowing what had happened to the man. For years and years, he didn't tell anyone about that night. The police never suspected him.

2:54We shared Travell's story in two episodes we released last fall. They're called The Confession, Part 1 and 2. Travell told us that he always thought about the man he'd shot. And 17 years after the shooting, Travell walked into a police station and turned himself in. He was 36. You know, I started thinking about it more and more. I'm like, well, look, if anything did happen, that would be... I just felt like that was the only way I can resolve it. You know what I mean? I just thought about it. Well, if I turn myself in, I can find out what happened to him. And if something did happen, then here we go.

3:39You know what I mean? And then I can kind of move on, whatever happens after that. Because you didn't know if he was alive or dead. No, I didn't. I didn't know. After a while, I told myself he was all right, but I still didn't know. I didn't know for sure. Did it get to a point where even though if he had died, you knew that you would be going to prison for a very long time, it didn't matter anymore? Nah, it didn't matter. It was like, it is what it is at that point. That's how I looked at it. Like, whatever happens, you know, this is it. After he turned himself in, he learned that the man he had shot had died.

4:31His name was John Hengel. Travell Coleman was sentenced to prison, 15 years to life. Travell's lawyer, Steve Zeidman. You know, I've heard of people turning themselves in, but it's usually soon thereafter the crime, or it's somebody who knows law enforcement is looking for them. What makes this entirely unique is that Travell was never a suspect in the first place. So no, I've never experienced anything like someone coming forward 17 years after the fact. So no, this is absolutely extraordinary. When we last spoke with Travell and Steve, they had submitted a clemency application and were waiting to hear from the governor's office.

5:14And then, in December of last year, Steve got a phone call. Getting that call from the governor from my perspective, it's hard to put in words, because clemency is so rarely granted, even in as compelling a case as Trevelle's. So when a call comes, you know, there have been times they've actually said to me, take a seat, we have some good news for you. This was one of those moments. Trevelle was being granted clemency.

5:44That feeling right there was probably more concentrated than actually getting out. Because at that point, you know, we were anticipating, you know, something good happening. But then again, you have these doubts like, well, maybe not. We don't know. You know what I mean? So it was kind of like a, you know, kind of a roller coaster of emotions that I was going through at that time. And so it was like a weight was lifted type of thing. You know what I mean?

6:15they can, the governor has the power to commute a sentence and basically say, you're going home tomorrow. Or they can do what they did in Travell's case. They can say, we're reducing your sentence to make you immediately eligible to see the parole board. So I was thrilled to hear the news that clemency was granted. I was not so happy to hear that he wasn't immediately going home because the parole board is never, you know, you can't guarantee that. Tell me a little bit about what you heard the clemency was going to be granted, and then you were going to have to go in front of the parole board.

6:47What did you have to do to prepare to go in front of the parole board? Was that meetings between both of you? What are we going to say? What's our case here? Yeah, the process of preparing for the parole board, it's pretty daunting. Travelle and I met. We talked about the interview. We exchanged a lot of emails about what to expect. What are the trickier questions? What are the hard questions? How do you respond? I know Travell on the inside working with peers. There was a parole preparation workshop run by the men inside. But it's gathering materials to give to the board to make the best case possible, keeping your fingers crossed that you don't get some of the parole board commissioners who are unlikely to release anybody, frankly.

7:31Once you get a parole board date, it's just a matter of chance. about who are going to be the parole commissioners. And remember, this is on video. It's not in person. There's supposed to be three parole board members. Often there are just two. And not a lot of notice about who's going to be in front. So you can only prepare so much. From my perspective, I prepare for the worst. And by the worst, I mean the commissioners who are going to ask, frankly, what I think are ridiculous questions. You know, why do you deserve parole? What would you say to the victim's family? Those sorts of questions, which there really is no good answer as far as they're concerned.

8:02So you try and prepare. You go through every possible permutation and then trying to make sure that Travelle feels as ready as he possibly can. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal.

8:24And are you thinking the whole time, if this doesn't go well, we've got one shot here? You know, it's interesting you say that. When Travelle got clemency and was made immediately eligible to see the parole board, there are a bunch of folks saying, well, the governor gave him clemency. Of course the parole board is going to grant release, which to me is like that anybody would just assume that is a little frightening. So you see the board, if you're denied, they can set your next interview two years down the road. If you're denied then, they can set your next interview two years after that. So the stakes remained real high.

8:57So it's not as though, okay, we'll be back next week. Correct. We'll take another number. We'll wait. It's years, potentially, of life. There have been people who have been denied parole 10, 12, 14 times. One of the first people I ever worked with was in 44 years on a 25-to-life sentence. He'd been denied parole 14 times. The day of the parole hearing, Travell was brought to a building at Fishkill. The parole hearing would take place over a video call. While you were waiting to be called, were you with other people who were going up against the pro board that day? Yeah. Yes, it was about 10 of us.

9:37Did you talk beforehand? Yeah, we talked. It was, you know, a lot of it was nervous chatter. You know what I'm saying? We were just consoling each other. Not consoling each other, but just, you know, kind of helping each other get through it. Yo, man, you know, don't worry about it. You know, you should be all right, you know? You know, one of those things, yo, look, how long you been in? Oh, man, don't worry about it. You know, stuff like that. And, you know, it was a couple of guys there that I actually knew, that I actually worked with. So we sat there and talked, you know. How does it actually work?

10:13I mean, Travell, what happened during the hearing? Steve, you were there on Zoom? No, you can't have anybody present. Travell's there on his own. I was just there. I was, you go in a room, and you go, you sit down, and you write in front of like a TV, probably about that big, and then the people pop up, and they pan around, and they introduce everybody, and then they usually have one central person to ask all the questions. Were you nervous? Yeah, I was nervous, because, you know, I mean, you know, it was just intimidating. I never experienced anything like that, you know? I didn't know if I was going to say the wrong thing.

11:00I didn't know, you know, I didn't know the temperature of, you know, how those things work. You know what I mean? Do you remember the first thing they asked you? I think the first thing they asked me was, how do I see, like, how do I think I'm different now? I think that was one of the first questions. because when I first sat down, they just kind of just ran down everything. Like, they were talking. You know what I mean? They didn't, like, ask me anything. They just were like, oh, okay. You know, you're Travell Coleman, and is that correct? You know, I think that was the first question to me.

11:35You know what I'm saying? I was like, yes. And then they decided, so you committed this crime this day, and this and that. And then they started winning, and they went on and on. But then, you know, that was the first question. And he said, so why do you, how do you think you're different now? Do you remember what you said? I mean, I just told him that I was a follower back then, you know, and, you know, I've learned to be more of an individual these days. And I understand that I had to have a more righteous direction in order to live, you know, unlike, you know, I was living, you know what I mean?

12:11And I understood that. Travell told them about what he would do if he got out. He wanted to get a job and work on his music. When it was over, how did you feel like it went? Were you still nervous? I was. I was nervous because I wasn't nervous. I was uncertain. I didn't know, you know, at that point, you know, no, they don't give you any indication of what they're going to do. They're just, okay, you know, all right, good. Thanks for coming today. And I saw, you know, I knew a couple of guys that went in there And, you know, it seemed like they did well, you know what I mean? And then they wound up, you know, telling me later, like, yo, man, I didn't make it.

12:53You know what I'm saying? So I didn't know what to think, you know what I mean? I was like, you know, all I could do was wonder. But the only thing that did help me get through those long, long seven days, they said, we'll be getting back to you early next week. And this was maybe a Wednesday. She said, we'll be getting back to you early next week. So, you know, the first thing I thought, Monday, I should have an answer. You know what I mean? So that's what kind of helped me get through the weekend. I said, okay, Monday. We'll be right back.

13:38Support for this show comes from Odoo. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odoo. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com.

14:39says he wishes he'd done it sooner. It was easy. He kept his phone and contacts, and the service works just as well. This year, you don't have to just get them socks. You can get them premium wireless for$15 a month. You can shop Mint Unlimited plans at mintmobile.com slash Phoebe. That's mintmobile.com slash Phoebe. Limited time offer, upfront payment of$45 for a three-month plan. $90 for six-month plan or$180 for 12-month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Greater than 35 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. Capable device required. Availability, speed, and coverage varies.

15:22See mintmobile.com.

15:28Steve, you know, you knew the day that Travelle was going up against the board. Were you differently, of course, but in the same way thinking, oh, what's going to happen? What's going to happen? Kind of on pins and needles. Very nervous, very anxious. And you know, the thing about it too is a case like Travelle's, because of who he is and the high profile nature, that adds an extra element of concern because ultimately, whether it's the governor, the parole board, they know that their decision is going to be public, right? It's going to be scrutinized. It's going to be in the media. And in the back of my mind, I just kept being fearful that somehow that was going to tip the scale in the wrong way.

16:09Were you trying to be positive, though, to Trevelle? Were you trying to not let your quiet fears show? Yeah, always, always. I remember the last time we saw each other, just saying, and I know it sounds like a cliche, but you know, you got this. He had the answers to every question. We really didn't need to even prepare that much. And it's also the way people come across. And I know that that's subjective for all of us. But I mean, some people come across as just thoughtful, mature, humble. And to me, that matters to the parole board, whether it should or not as a whole other thing. But I, yeah, confident and, you know, trying to convey confidence and keep some of my own fears to myself, you know, just because with each passing day, there are two ways to think about it.

16:52You know, you're thinking, okay, is it with each passing day, is that good or bad? You know, There was a way in which I was hoping, okay, this was Wednesday, Friday. They should just let you know Friday you got parole. And when we didn't hear Friday, that kind of made me a little concerned. Trafal, did everyone know that you had gone up against the parole board, your friends? Was everyone kind of waiting along with you to hear what was going to happen? Inside, not outside. I mean, of course, outside. Yeah, well, inside, just the people that I dealt with, like the people in my unit. you know I mean it's kind of a big thing when you go to the parole when you're inside because everybody knows with time it's a certain set like a certain week when everybody goes to parole so you know I like ran into a couple people while I was walking over there so people know that you're going to parole you know so.

17:43Did the guards know? Did you speak to any of the guards about what was happening? Yeah some of them like I said there's no there's really no secrets in prison, you know. Even the guards, oh yeah, I heard you went to parole the other day, good luck, you know, stuff like that. They were mostly supportive. On the Tuesday after his parole hearing, April 2nd, Travell was called into an office at Fishkill. And you didn't know when they just said, come down here, you'd know it could have been... Yeah, it could have been bad. So the thing is it's true now I know it's not really a legend, you know what I mean?

18:20in prison, they say when you go in the office, if you get a small envelope, if the envelope is really, really thin, if you see it and they hand you that, then you'll probably be coming home. You know what I mean? But if you get a thick envelope, that means it has all your stipulations, the reasons why they denied you and all of this stuff in there. So if you see a thick envelope, kind of understand what's getting ready to happen. And I kind of saw someone at the desk, you know, so I'm like, oh, I didn't know which one was mine, you know what I mean? So I'm like, oh, man. So then I sat down, and then the lady, she said, she like reached over, and look, and my envelope was like super thin.

19:03Like, I was like, wait a minute, this might be good right here, you know? So I opened it, and at first I really didn't know what I was reading. She said, she said, all right, go to the second page, and I went, and I'm looking, you know, I expected it to have old letters approved. So I was looking, and all I saw was a date, and I saw the date. So I looked at the date, and I really couldn't believe what I was reading. I was like, how come it say 42924? And she was like, if that's what it says, you made it. She was, according to her, she didn't know what the result was. But she said, well, that means you made it.

19:46You know what I mean? I was like, oh, really? So I was like, wow. I said, praise the Creator. And she said, yeah, I mean, you made some good decisions. So congratulations.

20:00What was that walk back to your unit like? Just talking about it, it's like I got a little jump, you know, butterfly. You know, the feeling was just so liberating. Like, you know, I was able to walk and look at, you know, in Fishkill, you could look at the highway when you're walking by. And it's just, it was like, wow. You know what I mean?

20:29But the funny thing about jail is, unless you're walking out the gate, you're still like, I'm still in jail, you know? I still, the only thing that was going through my mind was like, I still have to wait 25 more days, you know what I'm saying? So I'm like, okay. The part that then became a little sticky, and this is where corrections and government officials can be a little cavalier about time, because they had the time, the release date wrong. Technically, Travell was eligible for immediate release, but that's not what the paperwork said. And to try and get someone to pay attention, because their first response is, hey, the guy got paroled.

21:09Good enough. This is great. He's going home in a couple weeks. Everything is good. What do you need us to look into? So it wasn't done yet. You saw that and said, okay, well, now we have to fix this. It's not, you know, it's from my perspective, and this is an outsider looking in, it's not done until you walk out the gate. And I tell family members, you can't, don't exhale completely. Clemency is beautiful. Celebrate, but we're not there yet. The parole board, the interview, looks like it went well. and even when you get the letter saying you're going home until you walk out until you walk out then you can exhale, then you can fully celebrate you know that day everybody that went to the parole boy, you know I saw them they all called us all at the same time so people were coming from wherever they were coming from but you saw them with their papers in their hands some of them were looking sad some of them were you could tell that they made it you know what I mean so for me when I got back Like, you know, I was overjoyed.

22:05You know what I mean? But then, so when I got back, Steve, my daughter, and my wife, the first three people I emailed. Boom. Emailed them. Sent it out. And I called my mother. And she told me, she said, look, if you get paroled, don't call me and say, you know, get this long, drawn-out thing and just try to, you know, look, my guy. Say it quick. Yeah, she said, say it quickly. like just call me and just say, I'm coming home. You know what I mean? So when I called her, that's exactly what I did. I said, I said, Ma, she picked the phone up. And she knew something was up because I don't usually call her before 1130.

22:46And this was like, it was about 930-ish. So I called her. And she said, what's going on? I said, Ma. And I was getting ready to draw it out too. And then I was like, oh, I remember what she said. I said, I'm coming home. And she just was like, oh, she just screamed. We were so loud. I was like, ah, man. We just laughed and just, you know, it was just a joyous occasion, man.

23:09We'll be right back.

23:19Support for Criminal comes from Saks Fifth Avenue. Saks Fifth Avenue makes it easy to do holiday shopping your way, whether you're looking for the right gift or the right outfit. Saks is where you can find everything from a Jimmy Choo bag for a sister who's hard to shop for to a Prada jacket for yourself to dress up for holiday dinner. If you don't know where to start, Saks.com will filter just for items that match your personal style so you can save time shopping and spend more time just enjoying the holidays. Make shopping fun and easy this season and find gifts that suit your holiday style at Saks Fifth Avenue.

23:53Black Friday savings are here at The Home Depot, which means it's time to add new cordless power to your collection. Right now, when you buy a select battery kit from one of our top brands like Ryobi or Milwaukee, you'll get a select tool from that same brand for free. Click into one of our best deals of the season and stock up on tools for all your upcoming projects. Get Black Friday savings happening now at The Home Depot. Limit one per transaction. Exclusion supply full eligible tool list in-store and online. Everything was lined up for Travell's release on April 29th.