In short
The episode examines how Steven Spielberg’s early hits helped invent and perfect the modern summer blockbuster, then asks what that form means now—using Spielberg’s current release Disclosure Day as a test case.
Guests (hosts)
Alex Schwartz, Nomi Fry, and Vincent Cunningham (all are Critics at Large hosts from The New Yorker). They share personal “first Spielberg” memories and each watched a different Spielberg “blind spot” film.
Key claims
- Jaws established blockbuster mechanics: massive promotion, summer release timing, merchandising, and wide mass distribution.
- Spielberg’s recurring concern is “knowledge”: what the public deserves to know, and the dangers of obliviousness.
- Disclosure Day argues “people have a right to know,” framing alien contact as an ethical issue, but the hosts debate whether it delivers Spielberg’s usual emotional pull.
Notable examples
- Jaws (Roy Scheider, Richard Dreyfuss, Robert Shaw; shark attacks near July 4; Spielberg’s decision to show less shark due to animatronic failure; ~$9M budget, ~$500M box office).
- Close Encounters (Roy Neary; UFO contact; family disruption; benevolent aliens; government secrecy).
- Jurassic Park (Grant, Sattler, Malcolm; dinosaur recreation; hubris and catastrophe).
- E.T. (emotionally central alien-child bond; Spielberg’s divorce-linked themes).
- Disclosure Day (Josh O’Connor as Daniel Kelmer stealing evidence; Emily Blunt as a Kansas City weatherwoman contacted by aliens; Colin Firth as a mind-invading villain; nun subplot and large-scale chases).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOThe Rise of Blockbusters
1:29 to 2:42
Exploring the phenomenon of blockbusters, starting with Jaws.
“That's quince.com slash nycritics for free shipping and 365-day returns.”
The Rise of Blockbusters
3:20 to 6:12
Exploring the phenomenon of blockbusters, starting with Jaws.
“You yell shark, we've got a panic on our hands on the 4th of July.”
Cultural Impact of Spielberg
6:12 to 6:45
Discussing the cultural significance of Spielberg's work and its relevance today.
“So buckle up, because today we're talking blockbusters, the huge Spielberg hits that invented and then perfected this form.”
First Encounters with Spielberg
6:45 to 7:48
Hosts share their first experiences with Spielberg's films.
“You know what my first encounter with Steven Spielberg was?”
Analyzing Jaws
7:48 to 9:50
A detailed look at the themes and plot of Jaws and its societal implications.
“definitely not on Martha's Vineyard where Jaws was, I later realized, was shot, but on the West Coast.”
Behind the Scenes of Jaws
9:50 to 14:01
Insights into the making of Jaws and the challenges faced during production.
“I'd never seen Jaws, but boy, did I know what it's about.”
The Making of Jaws: A Movie Disaster
14:01 to 16:40
Explore the chaotic production of Jaws and its unexpected success.
“I just want to come back, if I can, for one second to the moviemaking of Jaws itself, because it's one of the great moviemaking stories.”
Close Encounters: A Human Story
16:40 to 19:50
Discuss the themes of human experience and chaos in Close Encounters.
“and also because it figured out very quickly that people loved this movie.”
Jurassic Park: The Dangers of Knowledge
19:50 to 22:30
Analyze the themes of knowledge and hubris in Jurassic Park.
“Roy Neary, who works as a telephone lineman and lives with his wife and three kids, has an encounter, a close encounter, with a UFO and is forever changed by it.”
The Human Element in Blockbusters
22:30 to 26:31
Understand the importance of character development in Spielberg's blockbusters.
“It's a wonderful movie because I think what you're saying, Alex, similarly to you, and I think you know this, I'm not a sci-fi person.”
Show all 24 chapters
The Human Element in Blockbusters
27:27 to 28:27
Understand the importance of character development in Spielberg's blockbusters.
“But unless you're working with an unlimited budget, sometimes that's easier said than done.”
The Human Element in Blockbusters
28:32 to 28:42
Understand the importance of character development in Spielberg's blockbusters.
“How about a creamy mocha frappuccino drink?”
Upcoming Playlist for July 4th
28:59 to 30:24
The hosts discuss their plans for a collaborative playlist about America.
“Before we get back to the episode, we want to tell you about a project we're working on and we're really excited about.”
Emotional Impact of E.T.
30:24 to 32:18
The hosts share their emotional reactions to watching E.T.
“And I was crying as if it was 1982 and I was watching it for the first time.”
Comparing Aliens: E.T. and Alf
32:18 to 33:29
Discussion on the cultural significance of E.T. and the character Alf.
“So he's always tugging at his own heartstrings first.”
Disclosure Day Overview
33:29 to 35:56
Hosts provide a synopsis of the movie Disclosure Day and its themes.
“Well, I think that just even the mention, the brief mention of E.T.”
Critique of Disclosure Day
35:56 to 40:38
The hosts share their critiques and thoughts on the film's execution.
“These poor aliens who seem kind of, you know, frail and sympathetic.”
Reflection on Alien Perspectives
40:38 to 42:00
Exploration of the themes of alien life and societal perspectives in films.
“Which is itself interesting to me because Spielberg has given interviews lately in which he makes it very clear that he does believe that alien life exists and that he would like to meet it.”
Exploring the Alien Overlords
42:00 to 44:38
A discussion on the themes of power and human identity in a recent film.
“Crowds gathering in the streets today for some reason obscure to me.”
Transition to Blockbuster Discussion
44:38 to 45:36
A brief transition leading into the next topic on blockbusters.
“That's in a minute on Critics at Large from the New Yorker.”
Transition to Blockbuster Discussion
45:39 to 45:56
A brief transition leading into the next topic on blockbusters.
“Send us your questions, pictures, and any thoughts to bakeclub at bonappetit.com or find us on Substack.”
The Current State of Blockbusters
47:23 to 54:18
A deep dive into the evolution of blockbusters in relation to Spielberg's legacy.
“Does Disclosure Day, maybe it's box office success, maybe its actual existence as an artifact, does it make you think differently about where this form, the blockbuster, is headed?”
Legacy of Spielberg and New Filmmakers
54:18 to 56:00
Discussion on Spielberg's impact and contemporary filmmakers who might follow in his footsteps.
“But I don't think it is pointing a new direction in the way that Backroom's an obsession is.”
The Legacy of Spielberg's Blockbusters
56:00 to 57:04
Explore how Spielberg's films have impacted box office dynamics and audience engagement.
“To make money back, it's going to have to generate a huge amount of money.”
Transcript
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3:01Vinson Cunningham:This is Critics at Large, a podcast from The New Yorker. I'm Alex Schwartz. I'm Nomi Fry.
3:07Alexandra Schwartz:And I'm Vincent Cunningham. Each week on this show, we make sense of what's happening in the culture right now and how we got here.
3:19Alexandra Schwartz:Let me paint you a picture.
3:21Vinson Cunningham:Please.
3:22Alexandra Schwartz:It's June 1975. Colors are bright. The pants are bells at the bottom. School's out. School's out for summer. Damn right. It's hot. The height of summer. What are you going to do? You're going to go to the movies. And what are you going to see? What about a little film called Jaws?
3:52Alexandra Schwartz:You yell shark, we've got a panic on our hands on the 4th of July. Shark! Jaws, in case you haven't heard of it, it was a big hit, okay? It's often said to be the first modern blockbuster. Directed by Steven Spielberg, the most commercially successful director in history. After the success of Jaws, he goes on to make Close Encounters of the Third Kind, E.T., Jurassic Park, The Indiana Jones movies. The list goes on and friends, you know it. Guys, what are some of the hallmarks? If we're talking blockbuster, what are the hallmarks of the blockbuster as genre? What does the term conjure in your minds?
4:30Vinson Cunningham:Big action, posters everywhere, lines out the door, which I think was not a phenomenon until Jaws even. Enormous promotion. The promotion is perhaps as important as the movie itself. Huge box office take.
4:46Alexandra Schwartz:Fast-paced, maybe an explosion here or there. Definitely. Definitely. There's the blockbuster for you. It's been decades, though, since Spielberg had a big new summer jazzy hit. And that's put a big question mark around his new release, Disclosure Day.
5:04Vinson Cunningham:Do you think there could be others?
5:08Alexandra Schwartz:People have a right to know the truth.
5:09Vinson Cunningham:What are you going to do?
5:12Alexandra Schwartz:Full disclosure to the whole world, all at once. The question is, can it excite audiences in the way his earlier films did? Now, we have a partial answer to this. It's already been named his first summer blockbuster since Minority Report 24 years ago, if you can believe it. But still, the question persists. What is the blockbuster today?
5:34Vinson Cunningham:Yeah. Spielberg is re-entering this field. And he's tried to get back there before. But as you say, Vincent, it's been 24 years, not quite as long as the Knicks run since their last championship. But we're looking at a big pause between— A generation. A generation. From a huge commercial summer hit to another huge commercial summer hit. And there's a lot riding for the movie business on this question and then for the culture sense of itself as large. Are movies still important? Are people going to the cinema still a thing? Are the youth like we were? All of those questions, those big cultural questions are coming up through Disclosure Day.
6:10Alexandra Schwartz:Big questions, big movies. So buckle up, because today we're talking blockbusters, the huge Spielberg hits that invented and then perfected this form. How Spielberg picks up on those in Disclosure Day and, you know, we're hot off the huge success of films like Back Rooms and Obsession, a very different kind of movie that younger audiences especially are responding to. I'm wondering whether this old idea of the blockbuster still exists today, still matters, at least in the Spielberg mold. That's today on Critics at Large, Steven Spielberg's blockbusters.
6:55Vinson Cunningham:You know what my first encounter with Steven Spielberg was? It was a camp romant, my Jewish summer camp. And there was a, I think it was a rainy day. There was a presentation on important American Jewish cultural figures. I mean, I was just going to say, and I know I always say this, but Steven Spielberg is truly, truly the pride of the Jews. Well, someone showed up dressed as Albert Einstein. There was a second, can't remember. And then there was a counselor wearing tan shorts, like a safari outfit, which later I would understand referred to Jurassic Park. Who was that man? I didn't know who Steven Spielberg was.
7:33Vinson Cunningham:I had no idea. I just knew, Nomi, as you say, that he was the pride of the Jews. There we go. He was the pride of the Jews. I'm trying to think of my first encounter with Spielberg. I think it might have been, I remember being on the beach with my sister, definitely not on Martha's Vineyard where Jaws was, I later realized, was shot, but on the West Coast. and my sister telling me, you know this is the beach where they shot Jaws. And I kind of knew ambiently what Jaws was. That's dirty. That it was about a killer, you know, shark. And I did not go in the water. Yeah, that's not cool. I mean, it's very cool, but it's also not cool.
8:16Anyway, but I think that was my first encounter with Spielberg. Yeah. Making me not, literally not go in the water. Yeah. Just like after you watched Psycho, you didn't want to go in the shower.
8:27Alexandra Schwartz:Yeah. Yeah. For me, it's definitely like the sort of great like miracle year or one of the great miracle years of his career where in 93, both Jurassic Park and Schindler's List come out. I mean, I was just the right age to be totally freaked out by but riveted by Jurassic Park. Every single kid I knew had a Jurassic Park shirt. I still remember the logo for the movie just because I can see it on, you know, against the background of a black shirt. Oh, yeah. I saw one at a vintage store just yesterday. Really? Isn't that crazy? It's a great show. Iconic. But Vincent, there was a Spielberg movie, which famously you did not see, as we discovered when we chatted about it.
9:12Yes. And we were shocked to discover this horrible blind spot in your cultural diet. Shameful.
9:19Vinson Cunningham:Well, all of us have blind spots. Let me step in and defend my friend and colleague here. Absolutely. I have many, many, many blind spots. So the idea of kind of Vincent's blind spot made us think about all of our respective Spielberg blind spots. And so in preparation for this episode, each of us watched one of these blind spot Spielberg films. and we're going to talk about them a little bit and discuss them kind of leading up to Disclosure Day. So, Vincent, do you want to start?
9:54Alexandra Schwartz:Absolutely. Yes. Well, here's the thing. I'd never seen Jaws, but boy, did I know what it's about.
10:00Vinson Cunningham:Yeah. It's one of those things, right? You knew to whom the Jaws belonged.
10:04Alexandra Schwartz:I knew to whom the Jaws belonged. I knew that there was a big-ass shark and that that wasn't a great thing, okay? and that it was scary. I knew a lot about the movie before I saw it. But news alert, I liked Jaws. Jaws is good.
10:19Vinson Cunningham:Jaws is awesome.
10:21Alexandra Schwartz:This is the news I'm bringing to our listeners. Jaws is a great movie. I, you know, watched it, was not just frightened by the idea of it as like a five-year-old when my sister like, you know, freaked me out about not going in the water because Jaws will get me. But later actually watched it, you know, in my teens and liked it. Yeah. But then didn't watch it for many years, returned to it during the pandemic, during lockdown. And I remember how much it struck me then that it was a movie about COVID. You know, the conflict between kind of like private enterprise and, you know, individual decision making and kind of like the greater good.
11:06Right. Right. And the kind of like binding of that against kind of like a force that comes from the outside and terrorizes a small town in this case. But I was like, wow, this is really deep. Do you want to like give us a little synopsis?
11:22Alexandra Schwartz:Jaws stars Roy Scheider. He's the police chief of a town called Amity. And the police chief has a problem, which is that there has been a rash of shark attacks. right before, right around this time of year, right before the 4th of July. And to your point, Nomi, about the common good, the first half of the movie is setting up this sort of problem, this commerce versus public safety versus economic advancement, etc. The mayor's like, no way, man, we're not shutting down. If we make an effort today, we might be able to save August. August? For Christ's sake, tomorrow's the 4th of July. And we will be open for business.
12:06Alexandra Schwartz:It's going to be one of the best summers we've ever had. Now, if you fellas are concerned about the beaches, you do whatever you have to to make them safe. But those beaches will be open for this weekend. First big beach day happens, and predictably. Chomp! There's blood in the water. The police chief, Brody, goes out to sea with a marine biologist played by Richard Dreyfuss, who is, I think, just so good. Also great outfits. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Dreyfuss is wearing a raglan sweatshirt out on the boat. Beautifully. I just love this gray sweatshirt. It's so true. And Robert Shaw plays this briny, professional shark hunter named Quint.
12:51Alexandra Schwartz:And they go out on a boat, the three of them, in the sort of radical miniaturization of the crew in something like Moby Dick. It is, for me, it inaugurates this film, Jaws, which had a budget of$9 million, and then had almost$500 million in box office. At the time, it was the highest-grossing film ever. It was the most successful movie that had ever been made. What it inaugurates for me, in the other Spielberg movies that I've seen, and enjoyed, that we'll talk about, is this primacy of knowledge. What do people, the mass of people, deserve to know? And what does that knowledge prompt us to do?
13:34Alexandra Schwartz:This happens a lot in Spielberg. It's like a sort of cognitive or sort of informational or political or commercial elite. And trying to figure out what they owe to the masses of people in terms of sharing a kind of knowledge.
13:51Vinson Cunningham:Absolutely. I think that's something that would be great for us and for listeners also, honestly, to keep in mind. over the course of the episode, because I think that is one of Spielberg's biggest concerns. He just hit the nail on the head. He's concerned with civics. I just want to come back, if I can, for one second to the moviemaking of Jaws itself, because it's one of the great moviemaking stories. Our colleague Michael Schulman has a great chapter on Jaws in his book, Oscar Wars, the podcast that I'm very into that I always love talking about, What Went Wrong, moviemaking podcast, has a great episode about it.
14:22Vinson Cunningham:But what is kind of crazy about Jaws in retrospect is that everyone thought it would be a big, flop and no one expected it to work. The studio, Universal, had already purchased this novel, which was forthcoming to adapt. Then the novel comes out and is a huge hit. So they need to move up the shooting like from a year and a half to basically two months. They have to cast this thing immediately. That all is going on. The technology of the sharks was a complete mess. And I really encourage people, if you like stories about just like disasters, basically the movie Jaws was a disaster too. They could not get these huge sharks to operate.
15:01Vinson Cunningham:They couldn't do it. And that failure led to the genius of Jaws because Spielberg came to realize, and Spielberg was only 26, which was really mind-blowing to me, but he came to realize that not showing the shark would be more terrifying than showing these big animatronic sculptures of sharks that they kept trying and failing to operate. He came to this Hitchcockian view of things. And Nomi, I think you referred to the shower of psycho before. I mean, that's it. I think Spielberg quite literally said he wanted people to have that, to feel about going to the beach like people felt about going into the shower after psycho.
15:41Yeah. And I think this connects back, this links back to this issue of knowledge where it's like the most dangerous thing is being oblivious in a sense. So like these people on the beach, these happy fools, there is that water. It looks so inviting. Hot summer day.
Read the full transcript
16:02Alexandra Schwartz:And what could be better? What could be better? And yet under that water, that shark we don't see. And I think that as again, as you said, this is something that repeats again and again in Spielberg's movies. What don't we know? and what danger lurks in that which we don't know.
16:25Vinson Cunningham:Totally. So when we talk about Jaws inventing this form of the blockbuster, there are a few things we're talking about. The first is promotion. It seems obvious to us now, but at the time,$1.8 million was spent on promoting Jaws, which was huge because the studio was trying to ride the high of the successful novel and also because it figured out very quickly that people loved this movie. People were spilling their popcorn, screaming at this movie. The studio was like, this is a thing. Let's spend money to make it more of a thing. There were television spots promoting the film. All these things that seem super obvious to us now that were not so obvious at the time.
17:00Vinson Cunningham:The summertime release, another like no-duh thing that actually was quite a duh because most big releases had happened in the winter and the spring. And suddenly you get summertime and wow, kids are out of school. Teenagers want to go see this movie. The teen market is huge. Let's market movies to teens. That begins there. Merchandising. Guys, there were Jaws T-shirts. There were Jaws plastic cups. There were Jaws record albums. There were Jaws beach towels, bicycle bags. Not beach towels. Blankets, costume jewelry, toys. And then, finally, I would say the other big, big element that makes up a blockbuster and seems obvious to us now but was invented by this was mass distribution.
17:43Vinson Cunningham:Because up until that point, studios were still testing movies in certain markets, rolling them out slowly. And with Jaws, the movie was just an event. It was released wide. It was everywhere all at once.
17:54Alexandra Schwartz:Alex, you had a Spielberg film that you hadn't seen, Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
18:01Vinson Cunningham:Oh, yeah. I had never seen Close Encounters of the Third Kind. This is true. This is Spielberg's movie from 1977. And science fiction and the idea of science fiction and aliens had never totally been my thing. And I say had because it's an amazing movie. I think, like, this is going to be the theme. We each are watching a known minted Spielberg classic movie. Like, surprise, they're awesome. But in a way, I kind of think I like our, I mean, I'm anticipating Nomi's reaction to her choice and maybe she'll have hated it and I'll be completely wrong in my prediction here. But I do think that this is something that has dogged Spielberg forever, where because he became such a commercial filmmaker so young, because Jaws ended up being this huge surprise hit and because then he repeated it with Close Encounters.
18:49Vinson Cunningham:And then he blasts out of the park with Jurassic Park. People like to think of him as, you know, oh, he's like the popcorn guy. And then you watch his movies and you're like, these are amazing. What a great filmmaker. What is amazing about this movie is that it's a really human movie, even though it's about aliens. It's something is going on in the skies. People all around the world are noticing weird stuff. in India, a whole group of people is ecstatically singing a melody. Ha, ha, ha. Do, do, do, do, do, do, do. And when they're asked, where did you hear this sound? They all point with their four fingers to the skies.
19:31Vinson Cunningham:Francois Truffaut is running around in the guise of La Combe, the character he plays. I mean, guys, there's an amazing Truffaut performance accompanied by a wonderful Bob Balaban as his assistant translating from the French. That duo would have watched a whole spinoff about that kooky duo. They're trying to figure out what's going on. And in the middle of all of this, Richard Dreyfuss, who here is playing a guy called Roy. Roy Neary. Roy Neary, who works as a telephone lineman and lives with his wife and three kids, has an encounter, a close encounter, with a UFO and is forever changed by it. And one thing I love about the movie is that Spielberg pays really close attention to the human cost of wanting to know more.
20:18Vinson Cunningham:There's a depiction of this totally chaotic family, which I really loved. I love the honesty about how much chaos there can be in a family with kids. It's so like 70s divorce, this movie is. So much so. What it is, is family therapy. I mean, we all go. We all talk. No one is singled out. And maybe it's not your fault anyway. Oh, it's waterproof. It still works. Boy, come to me and you'll go. Please. You cried, baby. You cried, baby. You cried, baby. I cried right here. He's making a fucking mess in the living room trying to create this, like, weird, like, mountain that he keeps envisioning in his mind.
21:00He makes it out of mashed potatoes. Then he makes it out of dirt in the middle of the living room. Like, the family is gone. The family is like destroyed in the name of this kind of seeking. Yes. And I think it's also, I mean, obviously we also know, you know, whoever watched The Fableman's like.
21:21Alexandra Schwartz:This is autobiographical for Spielberg. This is autobiographical. You know, Spielberg himself was a child of divorce, et cetera. But there's also something that is so, you know, post-60s about this movie about like, this is a person who wants something different. and the family is collapsing because of that for like better or worse, you know, for this idea of kind of a self-fulfillment that has been wrought by societal changes.
21:50Vinson Cunningham:I love that take, Nomi. Yeah, that's so smart. Yeah, exactly. Oh, dad's having his midlife crisis, so we all have to, so the family breaks out.
21:57Alexandra Schwartz:Everybody's going to talk about aliens.
21:59Vinson Cunningham:Exactly. And then, of course, there's the aliens of it. These are Spielbergian aliens. And by that, I mean kind, cute, not as cute as E.T., but cute aliens who want to make contact, who are benevolent figures. It has the stuff, Vincent, that you mentioned that's going to be important for Disclosure Day also, where there's a government body that doesn't want people to know things. It's trying to keep people in the dark. But there is a benevolence and a hopefulness to this movie. So great. It's a wonderful movie because I think what you're saying, Alex, similarly to you, and I think you know this, I'm not a sci-fi person.
22:42I'm not a fantasy person. I'm a realism person, canonically. And yet this is one of my favorite movies because it's a movie about people. That's right.
22:54Alexandra Schwartz:And just in keeping with our theme here, Close Encounters, it's no Jaws, but it does really well at the box office. He made it for less than$20 million. It makes more than$300 million. Yeah, pretty good. You know, this is Spielberg at the crest, one of the many crests of his career. One of the many crests. And on to another crest. The crest. The crest, perhaps. The crest of crests. Which was my blind spot. I shockingly had never seen Jurassic Park from 1993. And my co-hosts were shocked and dismayed to hear that that was the case. And so I hastened to rectify. Also excited. And excited. I hastened to rectify this.
23:39And I watched Jurassic Park for the first time a few days ago. Great movie. I was glued to my seat. I was riveted. Then in this movie, we have these three scientists, Alan Grant, played by Sam Neill. We have Dr. Sattler, Ellie Sattler, played by Laura Dern, his colleague. And we have the kind of like submitted good looks mathematician, Ian Malcolm, played by Jeff Goldblum. And they are chosen to go to this new theme park that is being kept heavily under wraps, where scientists have managed to recreate dinosaurs. How fast are they?
24:22Alexandra Schwartz:Well, we clocked the T-Rex at 32 miles an hour.
24:27Vinson Cunningham:T-Rex?
24:28Alexandra Schwartz:Mm-hmm.
24:29Vinson Cunningham:You said you've got a T-Rex?
24:31Alexandra Schwartz:Uh-huh. Say again? We have a T-Rex. It's once again that thing about, like, the dangers of knowledge and what is done with knowledge that is hidden from many and used by few. There's a kind of like scientific and is actually kind of like I felt was very appreciate about these kind of like Elon Musk-y type figures who are like, I am God. I will create this like my own wonderland and nothing will go wrong. Of course. And then, of course, when there's that hubristic impulse, all hell breaks loose. And it's a great movie. Did you have a favorite among the dinosaurs? Okay. I thought the raptors were super scary.
25:21Alexandra Schwartz:Yes. Like, I was like, okay, I don't want to tangle with them. I kept being like, why? Why? Yeah. Don't do it. Yeah. I like the sick triceratops. We like them sick. Yes. Yes. The sicker the better when it comes to dinosaurs, I would imagine. Do you guys remember watching Jurassic Park? Oh, of course.
25:45Vinson Cunningham:At Lara Fox's home on her kitchen TV in, I want to say, 1997. Yeah, I had not been allowed to see this. I was mesmerized, absolutely mesmerized. And I didn't understand. I was watching something that had grossed$1.058 billion. $1 billion. I mean, my lord, did people love this film. And again, what Spielberg is so good at is bringing the human to the fore in these extreme sci-fi kind of circumstances. And Jurassic Park does that in an amazing way. I remember the dinosaurs when I think of Jurassic Park. But what I really think about is Laura Dern and Jeff Goldblum and the people and how they faced this situation.
26:31Vinson Cunningham:And that's what makes a great blockbuster.
26:38Alexandra Schwartz:In a minute, from the classics to the present, Disclosure Day. Critics at large from The New Yorker will be right back.
26:58This week on The New Yorker Radio Hour, a Democrat and a Republican in Congress on how the immigration crackdown is changing America.
27:04Vinson Cunningham:They're going to see vast swaths of our workforce disappear. They're going to see our economy contract. Mr. President, you've got to change the way when it comes to immigration. Otherwise, we're not going to have a Republican Party. That's the New Yorker Radio Hour from WNYC. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Your living space is your sanctuary, and you want it to feel like an expression of you, right? But unless you're working with an unlimited budget, sometimes that's easier said than done. And that's why I love Wayfair. I don't think there's a room in my house that doesn't have a little something from Wayfair.
27:40With their breathtaking selection, shockingly affordable prices, and incredibly easy delivery process, making MySpace feel like me was a snap. Wayfair offers everything you need for your home, yard, or office. Seating, grills, appliances, storage, lighting, rugs, decor, and so much more. And if working at Allen Key isn't your thing, they can handle delivery, installation, and assembly. You just pick what you want and they deal with the rest. With over 20 million five-star reviews, you can shop with confidence. See real customers, real homes, real feedback before anything hits your cart. Especially in the summer months, my porch is truly my happy place.
28:14I like to have my coffee in the cotton weave chair hammock and then read for a bit on the gorgeous wooden porch swing. Both Wayfair finds. Do I sleep in a Wayfair bed frame at night? Actually, I do. And I'm not mad about it. Ready to upgrade your home for way less? Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home and get your space ready for less. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R dot com.
28:35Alexandra Schwartz:Wayfair, every style, every home. Tomorrow morning is knocking. Stock your fridge now. How about a creamy mocha frappuccino drink? Or a sweet vanilla? Smooth caramel, maybe. Or a white chocolate mocha.
28:47Vinson Cunningham:Whichever you choose, delicious coffee awaits. Find Starbucks frappuccino drinks wherever you buy your groceries.
28:59Before we get back to the episode, we want to tell you about a project we're working on and we're really excited about.
29:06Alexandra Schwartz:July 4th is on the way, as I'm sure all of our listeners know. 250 years of our country, America. And I've been wanting to develop a playlist made up of songs about America. I guess really songs about our feelings about America, whatever that means right now.
29:24Vinson Cunningham:Yeah, and we want this to be a joint project. We three are each going to pick some songs to share. And listeners, we really want you to help us pick some songs, too. And we'll work all of our picks into a whole episode built around this idea of America seen through music. Right. I mean, the song that you pick could reflect, you know, the hopes you have for America or the fears you have for America or the things you hate right now about America. And get specific. Tell us about the lines that speak to you, the lyrics that speak to you. Yep. Give us a range. Contemporary, old, in between, whatever you got.
29:59Vinson Cunningham:We're here for it. I'm so psyched for this. And so I want you guys to pick up your phones, record a voice memo and tell us what song reflects your feelings about America today. And then please send these voicemails that you record to us at themailatnewyorker.com, subject line critics.
30:24Elliot.
30:25Vinson Cunningham:I'm keeping him.
30:30Vinson Cunningham:What is it? He won't hurt you, Gertie. He won't hurt you, Gertie. I'm not going to hurt you.
30:41Alexandra Schwartz:Can we talk E.T. for a second? We can always talk E.T. I watched E.T. on the plane a mere few days ago. On him. And I was crying as if it was 1982 and I was watching it for the first time. That's right.
30:56Vinson Cunningham:That's right. That's right. That's right. I mean, I'm going to just come out and say it. E.T. is a movie I'm afraid to rewatch because I don't know if I can go to that place emotionally right now or ever. I will. This episode will inspire me, and I'll probably be sobbing within a number of days along to E.T. But the emotional nakedness of that wrinkled little alien and that shriveled up little old man baby. That little guy. And the abandoned children who care for him. Yes. It is the most— Again, the children of divorce. The children of divorce. That American scourge. What happened to the American family, my friends?
31:41Vinson Cunningham:The way that E.T. has been baked into the culture, I think it's still there. Growing up, not even just with E.T. itself, but with the commercials for the Universal Studios ride, E.T. ride, All I wanted to do in my one life on Earth was to get in that little bicycle ride and go. Go. Go up.
32:00Alexandra Schwartz:Silhouetted against the moon.
32:02Vinson Cunningham:Amblin. Send me up. Send me up. Vincent, have you seen E.T. recently? What's your feeling about it?
32:08Alexandra Schwartz:Again, it's a very emotional film. Again, Spielberg's autobiographical penchant, you know, it's sort of based on an imaginary friend he created after the divorce of his parents. So he's always tugging at his own heartstrings first.
32:23Vinson Cunningham:Yeah.
32:24Alexandra Schwartz:And thereby tugging at ours. But yeah, I just remember it as, maybe it was my, I mean, between E.T. and Alf, I'm not sure which one was my first engagement with the sitcom Alf, which centered around a furry puppet who was also an alien, right? Yeah, it came from Melmac. There you go. Never forget, Melmac. These were my first aliens. Alf was sexy, though.
32:56Alexandra Schwartz:that's i don't even know i'm sorry but it's so you what because he's so her suit
33:02Vinson Cunningham:because he has like a little you know kind of hair tough yeah he's here her suit and he's a
33:08Alexandra Schwartz:little mean no me like tortured troubled chest hair the next in one second we're about to hear
33:17Vinson Cunningham:that elf had submitted good looks and we're just not going to know what to do with it i've been Sorry. Apologies to everyone. Whereas E.T. is merely heartbreakingly cute. Exactly. Yes. We brought it back. We brought it home.
33:29Alexandra Schwartz:Well, I think that just even the mention, the brief mention of E.T. is a great way to get now on to Disclosure Day. Yes. Which is in theaters now, doing very well, as we mentioned before. Who would like to offer a synopsis of Disclosure Day? I feel like we have only one woman.
33:49Vinson Cunningham:I'm kind of feeling it today, guys. For this job. I'm feeling it.
33:52Alexandra Schwartz:I see the spark.
33:54Vinson Cunningham:I'm feeling it. We got Josh O 'Connor, my man Josh O 'Connor, as a rogue. Of course. Josh O 'Connor the rogue has been working at a sinister corporation whose name I want to say is Hendrix, even though that's not its name.
34:09Alexandra Schwartz:It's close to that. What is it?
34:10Vinson Cunningham:It's like Wembex? Wembex. What? When? Windex. He's been working at Windex. I'm sorry. Wardex. Wardex. Rolex, Windex, no, it's Wardex. Wardex. I just love thinking about how they workshop to find the appropriately evil name. Wardex has some information it doesn't want the people to know. Namely, as we find out very quickly, that aliens have made contact with the human race. The word is not out, but fortunately, Josh O 'Connor, whose name in this movie is Daniel Kelmer, has lots of little files that have all this evidence on them. He's stolen them from Word X, and now he's trying to get away. Meanwhile, over in Kansas City, we have Emily Blunt as Margaret Fairchild, a weather woman.
34:59Vinson Cunningham:And she, one day, sees this cardinal pop into her window and begins speaking every language on the globe. And this is because the aliens have made contact with her. And these two need to find each other. They are the pieces in the puzzle that will allow for Disclosure Day, which is going to be the day when Daniel Kellner lets the whole world know this has been going on. The nemesis of this movie is Noah Scanlon, an absolutely unrecognizable Colin Firth.
35:27Alexandra Schwartz:It took me a minute.
35:28Vinson Cunningham:Yeah. He has a little device that looks like a mezuzah, and he likes to hold it. And that evil mezuzah lets him drop in on other people and speak to them inside their own heads. And it's a chase. It's a chase. Are the good guys going to be able to reach the global population before the bad guys can stop them? Because this movie has a very clear ethics, which is people deserve the right to know. And something that is very painful is the mistreatment of these aliens that is being revealed. These poor aliens who seem kind of, you know, frail and sympathetic. They're very similar in appearance to aliens we've seen in Spielberg before, E.T.
36:11and Close Encounters, kind of Wemby-like.
36:15Alexandra Schwartz:Well, they are Wemby-like. Wemby-like, perhaps slightly shorter, but, you know, kind of like. Many little Wemby's. That is very painful. And in fact, you know, this also reminds me of Schindler's List. You know, there is, I think, in Spielberg's work, and this might be like the Jewishness or I don't know. I think there is this kind of fear or pain around the idea of abusing or repressing a more vulnerable race or group or whatever you want to call it. I don't know. I mean, in terms of whether we liked this movie or not. Well, did you? Let's start there. um i will say the first 45 minutes or so i was like fuck this is great like spielberg is so back like this is amazing emily blunt is amazing she's so good she was great she was great she's funny and she's like she's so talented and she does a she does a great job and it's just like very gripping you know you're like what's gonna happen oh my god it kind of starts in medias rest um immediately you're kind of tossed into this world of danger and intrigue and you don't totally understand what's happening and so I was gripped and I was really enjoying and I was like yes Spielberg is like yes he's doing his blockbuster thing where it's like great performances really well written but also like really taught and kind of like action-packed but then it started I felt like there was a lot of that was superfluous, I guess.
37:57I was like there was the whole kind of like story with like Jane, the Eve Houston girlfriend character, her faith and her like like coming up as a nun or aspirant nun. And like those theological questions that kind of like I felt like weighed down the kind of the main crux of the whole thing. I felt like Coleman Domingo, you know, great actor, love him. But I was like, how has he suddenly become like the new Morgan Freeman? You know, this kind of like soft eyed, you know, kind of like wise black man who knows everything and can lead us to the. It was like a little much I felt like. And also just like on the level of plot, there was a lot going on.
38:47And I was like, couldn't we have, like, whittled this down a little bit more?
38:52Alexandra Schwartz:What did you think, Alex?
38:55Vinson Cunningham:I think I appreciated this movie more than I enjoyed it.
38:58Alexandra Schwartz:Mm-hmm.
38:59Vinson Cunningham:I appreciated a few things. I appreciated being at a movie theater on opening weekend with a bunch of people around me. Yes. Bad experience. Fun. Fun. I appreciated the chases. Enjoyed them very much. Bursting through buildings. Mm-hmm. A nice train chase sequence, which feels old-fashioned, just the fact that a train was involved, but trains still ride among us every day. They're out there. Use them. Good. Big train sequence. Big train sequence, jumping around on trains. Love Josh O 'Connor and Emily Blunt. And yet, I felt that this movie, I don't want to say it felt formulaic because it's not Spielberg exactly painting by numbers.
39:40Vinson Cunningham:I think it's Spielberg revisiting many of his obsessions and themes with a huge sincerity to him. You know, we did an episode on earnestness, listeners may recall, and this movie would fit right in there. This movie deals, treats this question of human life and extra human life with great earnestness and religion with great earnestness. There's a nun has a very prominent role. It's the second big movie in recent memory. The other one is Paul Thomas Anderson's One Battle After Another, where a nunnery, a convent, is treated as a place of refuge and political resistance. That was kind of interesting to me that that idea came up for both of these filmmakers.
40:19Vinson Cunningham:But all that said, I just didn't feel the human element in the way that I really want to in a movie, and particularly in a Spielberg movie. And I felt Spielberg trying for it, but I just wasn't touched by it. And the intellectual ideas about what it would be like to make contact with another species, I feel that Spielberg has treated – more than species – I feel that Spielberg has treated more interestingly before. Which is itself interesting to me because Spielberg has given interviews lately in which he makes it very clear that he does believe that alien life exists and that he would like to meet it.
40:56Vinson Cunningham:This is all coming from a very real place for him. Vincent, what did you think?
41:02Alexandra Schwartz:Yeah, it's interesting because I do think that it's not really tugging at the heartstrings, partially because to me, of the Spielberg films that I've seen, it seems to me the most sort of conceptual and abstract. I think it's trying to sort of rearrange, again, our society and see it through the pain of a different window. It reminds me of a poem by Robert Hayden. I might have even mentioned it on this podcast. He has this poem. It's called American Journal. And it's from the point of view of an alien visiting America. Can I read a stanza? Please. And so the poem is, as the title suggests, it's a journal by this alien who has been sent by his overlords to come and sort of take notes on America.
41:58Alexandra Schwartz:He's like an alien Tocqueville or something like that. Crowds gathering in the streets today for some reason obscure to me. Noise and violent motion, repulsive physical contact, sentinels, pigs I heard them called, with flailing clubs, rage and bleeding and frenzy and screaming, machines wailing, unbearable decibels. I fled lest vibrations of the brutal scene do further harm to my metabolism already overtaxed. It's this being who— It's about UFC at the White House. There you go. Just like confused by American bloodlust and dynamism. But also, as we see throughout the poem, we kind of come to understand that the alien overlords are also kind of softly authoritarian.
42:46Alexandra Schwartz:and he's like sort of also attracted this alien to, I don't know, some like sort of charisma of the barbaric Americans or something like that. And we get to see through this film too, you know, there is this moment when the, I don't know, slight spoiler. There's a moment when the tapes are finally released and there is a newscaster who is seeing them concurrently with them being shown to people on television. And she's kind of almost crying and she's saying it just like, this just calls into question our place. And you can tell she means this existentially and like, what is a human being and what are they for?
43:30Alexandra Schwartz:But also as they show these scenes of like, you know, aliens, aliens being whatever, like operated upon or like proto waterboarded or whatever, you know, what is our place? Like, what, what, what are we, what, that we would do this to, you know? So there's all these, I think that question comes so much to the fore in this film that it overrides, and I think purposely, any human drama. Which is, to me, plays against the Spielbergian thing. I don't think it's ever trying to make us cry or weep or feel for a human being. Or even the aliens, really. it's a thought experiment where the existence of these beings and their sort of the unmasking of this fact I don't know creates this grand like counterfactual so I was kind of riveted by that I thought it was really funny so I think I may I think and I'm still working through this I saw it last night I think I liked it but I'm still thinking about it I'm thinking about it
44:37Alexandra Schwartz:When we're back, the state of the blockbuster and Steven Spielberg's legacy. That's in a minute on Critics at Large from the New Yorker.
44:56Vinson Cunningham:I'm Jazzy Sefciak. And I'm Shilpa Oskokovic. And we're senior test kitchen editors at Bon Appetit and the hosts of the Bon Appetit Bake Club podcast. Bake Club is Bon Appetit's community of confident, curious bakers. We love to bake. Some might even call the two of us obsessive. And we love to talk about all the hows and whys and what didn't works that come with it. Every month, we publish a recipe on bonappetit.com that introduces a baking concept we think you should know. Then you'll go bake, send us any questions you have. And we'll get together here on the podcast to talk about the recipe.
45:29Vinson Cunningham:And this month, we're making tiny tomato galettes. They are these adorable, maybe four-byte little galettes. So cute. Head to BA.com and come and bake along with us. Send us your questions, pictures, and any thoughts to bakeclub at bonappetit.com or find us on Substack. Join us the first Tuesday of every month as we debrief about our latest bake. Find BA Bake Club wherever you get your podcasts. Happy baking. Who is going to win control of Congress this November? and what is it going to mean for the final two years of Donald Trump's disruptive presidency? I'm Susan Glasser. I'm Jane Mayer. And I'm Evan Osnos.
46:08Vinson Cunningham:We host the Washington Roundtable on the New Yorker's Political Scene podcast. We're following what key races could tip the balance of power in Washington this fall. We're also going to go deep on the influence of dark money and tech billionaires. So join us in the run-up to the midterms in 2026. Subscribe to the Political Scene wherever you get your podcasts.
46:33Vinson Cunningham:Hi, I'm Nicole Phelps, Global Fashion News and Features Director at Vogue and co-host of the Run-Through Podcast. Each week on the show, our listeners get an all-access pass into the world of Vogue. On Tuesdays, join me as I interview influential designers like Calvin Klein, Rachel Scott, and Simone Belotti. On Thursdays, join Chloe Mao, Head of Editorial Content at Vogue US, and Choma Nadi, British Vogue's Head of Editorial Content, as they explore fashion through the lens of culture with guests like Doja Cat and Margot Robbie. Listen and watch the run-through with Vogue wherever you get your podcasts and Vogue's YouTube channel.
47:18Alexandra Schwartz:So we've been talking about the state of the blockbuster. Does Disclosure Day, maybe it's box office success, maybe its actual existence as an artifact, does it make you think differently about where this form, the blockbuster, is headed? I think one of the main things that we haven't really talked about yet is that this is not an IP-based movie, right? I mean, we've had blockbusters. We have blockbusters. We have all of the Marvel movies, which are enormously expensive and usually do enormously well in the box office. but they are not original stories and there was like before when i was sitting i went to see it in a theater on the upper west side uh friday afternoon so you know the theater was full yeah you know there were like 10 trailers before almost all of them were some form of like ip kind of like mega entertainment type thing.
48:27Yeah, like Supergirl. I was like, I could not be less interested than seeing a movie about Superman's cousin. How dare you? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. The only movie that I saw that I was like, okay, this is maybe like super stupid, but I'm like so in, was the movie about like Brad Pitt and his dog. Did you see that?
48:48Alexandra Schwartz:I didn't see that. I didn't get that. There is some action movie where Brad Pitt, has a trusty dog and they go through to hell and back together. Holy shit. And I was like, okay, this is, I mean, it's Brad. Yeah. And it's a dog. And it's a dog. It's Brad and it's a dog. Sounds like a formula. Heart of the beast. Heart of the beast. I was like, I'm gonna fucking gonna, I'm gonna see this movie because it, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's also an original story. There you go. And I was like, here we go. Set in the wilds of Alaska. Set in the wilds of Alaska.
49:26Vinson Cunningham:I'm like, we're so bad. In a harsh landscape that would likely kill any other man or dog. I know. And so.
49:36Alexandra Schwartz:Yeah, man. And so I was like, okay, you know what? This might be like totally stupid. But I'm like, Hollywood still got it. You know. A man and his dog. It's magic. But not just any man. Not just any dog. I mean, listen, Brad looks incredible. I was thinking, and I'm going to offer my answer first because I've been thinking about him a lot. But I wonder what you guys think of who is working in the Spielberg vein these days. And it's a hard answer because, of course, part of what the Spielberg vein is is working in many different veins, right? At least genre-wise. I've been thinking about Ryan Coogler a lot.
50:20Alexandra Schwartz:because like you know yeah like sinners yeah doing like sinners but then also having fruitvale station is like it's like having jurassic park and schindler's list you know right he's this very versatile but also very commercially minded filmmaker who is nonetheless trying to really speak in language we can comprehend like on the level of society or whatever are there other people doing the thing this thing i mean i think that i think that the combination of kind of history and fantasy politics you know society and and sci-fi i think yeah i think kugler yeah and and just within even sinners in and of itself that combines so many of these impulses i think that's a great um read interpretation um i'm also thinking about someone like Jordan Peele who directed the movie Nope, which came out in 2022.
51:14Alexandra Schwartz:Nope is very, very much in the vein of this film. Yeah, yeah. And this kind of like wonder of the 80s, you know, someone who grew up. Hands Across America and Us, yeah. Clearly grew up on Spielberg. And yeah, and the kind of like, I guess, playfulness, I would say. Yeah. Yeah. To me, it seems like if there's a legacy there, it's almost like what we call poptimism in music. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Criticism that, like, the assurance that you can make art in the context of not only genre, but sort of— The market. The market. The other person that I was thinking about in this vein was Greta Gerwig. Yeah. Who, you know, Barbie next is Narnia, but also has, you know, very indie-seeming films at the onset of her career.
52:06Alexandra Schwartz:And seems unashamed to say, yeah, I can do all of that and put forward a vision, whether it's literally how could you get more commercial than Barbie or something else. So that's, you know.
52:16Vinson Cunningham:I think that's so right, Vincent. I think that one of the paths that Spielberg blazed was being a kind of auteur within the big capitalist commercial framework. And he's gotten shit from both sides for the fact that he straddles this divide, you know, whether it's being called not an artist or what have you. But when you talk about blockbusters and movies that are getting people in their seats, beyond a question, the movies to be talking about right now are Obsession and Backrooms. And those are what makes this an interesting story of the blockbuster where Spielberg fits in is that we have 79-year-old Spielberg going up against two guys who are roughly the same age he was when Jaws came out.
52:55Vinson Cunningham:So we have someone, he's not done making movies, I hear he's about to make his first Western, can't wait to see it, all in. But we have someone at the latter part of his career, in the end of his career, who's back again trying to use his own formula, reinvented, to make a big hit film. And then we have these two other super scrappy filmmakers. A lot has been said about them. They're coming from the internet. They're making these movies on shoestring budgets. But these are both original horror concepts that just keep giving and giving and giving and generating great excitement at the box office.
53:31Vinson Cunningham:So I think we're spying. I don't know, and no one knows if those things become a kind of Spielbergian formula. But we have like Grandfather's special, which is a blockbuster at the moment, and we have the young guys thing. And Spielberg's movie is very successful. About 59 % of its audience we've read was over the ancient age of 34, you know, us three included. I think there's a lot of general complaining about, of course, we know there is, about Gen Z killing the movies and they don't appreciate it with the screens in front of their faces. Like, actually, no. Here the young people are showing up to watch movies in the theater to enjoy them.
54:11Vinson Cunningham:And it's really older people who have not come back in force to the movies since COVID. So Spielberg has got them back. And for that, I'm very glad. But I don't think it is pointing a new direction in the way that Backroom's an obsession is. What do you think, Vincent?
54:25Alexandra Schwartz:I think that's probably right. Again, I do think it's trying to—it's almost like Spielberg is trying to bring sort of a space of like, I don't know, almost discourse about belief. This is, to me, the whole thing about the nunnery and the conversations. Yes, they do a nunnery. I insist on calling it a nunnery. Laura asking these questions, but by what right would you bring it to light? And all these, you know, I do think he's trying to do something else, which I think is interesting to do in the space of the blockbuster. It's almost like Spielberg created the blockbuster, but then also created a space within the blockbuster to not parody the blockbuster, but comment on it.
55:11Alexandra Schwartz:Like he's like, he created the blockbuster and the meta blockbuster or something like that. But it's interesting to me that these new films, Backroom's Obsession, are horror. And therefore, they are still following a now time-tested path. It's like, we'll trust you if you could scare us real good first. Like, you could say that that's what JAWS is, you know? If you could do that, then we'll let you, you know, we trust you. You can take us anywhere you want to of a summer, you know? So I do think that they're still working in a tradition. To your point about the demographics of Disclosure Day, we should just say it made$44 million in North America over the opening weekend, which is quite respectable.
55:55Alexandra Schwartz:And, you know, as we have been saying, he is back.
55:58Vinson Cunningham:Yeah, I mean, we have no idea if this movie will turn out to be considered overall a success. It's funny. We're at the beginning of it. To make money back, it's going to have to generate a huge amount of money. The other thing we should say about Spielberg blockbusters, and I'm sure many people listening know this, is that the other thing that Spielberg did was not just deliver enormous opening weekends. It was keeping movies in theaters for a very, very long time. Movies that people – that kept generating intense interest that people wanted to see for months and months and months. which was and remains extremely rare.
56:30Vinson Cunningham:So that's going to be the test. Does it have staying power? But Spielberg is Spielberg. And, you know, I just keep thinking back on some episodes we've done and how nicely Spielberg could have fit into so many of them because, like, the suburban episode we did, you know, Spielberg, the bard of the suburbs, just for one example. And he really just is still going. Still going. Bless him.
57:03Alexandra Schwartz:This has been Critics at Large. Alex Barish is our consulting editor and Rhiannon Corby is our senior producer. Our executive producer is Stephen Valentino. Our show is mixed by Mike Kutchman and we had engineering help today from Pran Bandy with music by Alexis Quadrato. You can listen to all of our episodes anytime at newyorker.com slash critics. Remember, send in your entries for the America in Song episode we're working on. Send us a voice memo about one song that gets at the way you feel about America today. Good, bad, or anything in between. Get specific. Tell us the lyrics that really stick with you, the musical moments that you remember.
57:47Alexandra Schwartz:Send that to us at themailatnewyorker.com slash critics. We can't wait to hear from you.
58:06Alexandra Schwartz:I'm Vincent Cunningham.
58:07Vinson Cunningham:I'm Nomi Fry. I'm Alex Schwartz, and we host Critics at Large from The New Yorker.
58:12Alexandra Schwartz:Each week, we pick a starting point. The new novel you can't stop thinking about, the movie everybody's seeing this weekend, and we kind of go galaxy brain with it.
58:21Vinson Cunningham:Right. We take the ideas at the center of these things and trace them across history, across mediums, all to get to the bottom of why this particular text is important right now in politics and culture and also in your everyday life. We go highbrow. We go lowbrow. We go everything in between.
58:38Alexandra Schwartz:Food culture to meme culture. Charlie XCX to Toni Morrison. K-pop to the Kennedys.
58:44Vinson Cunningham:From horror movies to heated rivalry. From the Oscars to the Met Gala. The Golden Bachelor of Wuthering Heights, great expectations to desperate housewives.
58:52Alexandra Schwartz:That's what we're talking about over here. We're having fun. It's Critics at Large from The New Yorker, every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts.
59:06Vinson Cunningham:Hi, I'm Rebecca Ford. And I'm John Ross. And we're the hosts of Little Gold Men, Vanity Fair's podcast for film, TV, and awards lovers. And just because the Oscars are done, for now, doesn't mean we are. Join us every week for coverage of the biggest stories in Hollywood, interviews with today's brightest stars, and so much more. Listen to Little Gold Men every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts.
59:34Vinson Cunningham:Hi, I'm Nicole Phelps, Global Fashion News and Features Director at Vogue and co-host of the Run Through podcast. Each week on the show, our listeners get an all-access pass into the world of Vogue. On Tuesdays, join me as I interview influential designers like Calvin Klein, Rachel Scott, and Simone Belotti. On Thursdays, join Chloe Mao, head of editorial content at Vogue US, and Choma Nadi, British Vogue's head of editorial content, as they explore fashion through the lens of culture with guests like Doja Cat and Margot Robbie. Listen and watch the run through with Vogue wherever you get your podcasts and Vogue's YouTube channel.
From the publisher
When “Jaws” hit theatres in 1975, no one—neither the studio executives involved nor the film’s twenty-six-year-old director, Steven Spielberg—was betting on its success. But it dominated at the box office and promptly revolutionized the way movies were promoted, distributed, and merchandised. On this episode of Critics at Large, Vinson Cunningham, Naomi Fry, and Alexandra Schwartz trace how Spielberg inaugurated a new phenomenon in Hollywood: the blockbuster. He would tap his own playbook again and again with such hits as “Close Encounters of the Third Kind,” “E.T.,” and “Jurassic Park,” all of which drew impressive audiences and profits. The hosts talk through his filmography, culminating in his new release, “Disclosure Day,” which both replicates and iterates on themes and techniques found in his earlier work. Though other directors may share his capacity for spectacle and action-packed set pieces, much of his appeal lies in his profound earnestness. “What Spielberg is so good at is bringing the human to the fore in these extreme, sci-fi circumstances,” Schwartz says. “And that’s what makes a great blockbuster.”
Read, watch, and listen with the critics:
“Jaws” (1975)“Disclosure Day” (2026)“Minority Report” (2002)“Oscar Wars,” by Michael Schulman“What Went Wrong” ’s episode about “Jaws”“Close Encounters of the Third Kind” (1977)“Jurassic Park” (1993)“E.T.” (1982)“Alf” (1986-90)“Schindler’s List” (1993)“One Battle After Another” (2025)“American Journal,” by Robert Hayden“Heart of the Beast” (2026)“Sinners” (2025)“Nope” (2022)“Barbie” (2023)“Obsession” (2026)“Backrooms” (2026)
New episodes drop every Thursday. Follow Critics at Large wherever you get your podcasts.Critics at Large is a weekly discussion from The New Yorker which explores the latest trends in books, television, film, and more. Join us every Thursday as we make unexpected connections between classic texts and pop culture.
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