In short
Risk of being hit by space objects—meteoroids/meteorites, larger asteroids (planetary defense), and man-made space debris (including “urine crystals” and Kessler syndrome).
Guests and backgrounds
Dr Hadrian de Villepoix, lead scientist for Australia’s Desert Fireball Network (triangulates fireballs, predicts likely meteorite landings, searches for recovered samples). Kelly Fast, acting planetary defence officer at NASA HQ; leads NASA’s Planetary Defence Coordination Office (tracks potentially hazardous asteroids, coordinates response/deflection research). Steve Wokes, chief engineer at Astroscale UK (builds debris-removal satellites with docking and robotic capture).
Key claims
Most meteoroids burn up; no warning; meteorites hitting people are ~1 in a trillion per year. ~10 m asteroids can cause dangerous shockwaves (Chelyabinsk 2013 injuries from broken glass). NASA can retire threats like 2024 YR4 via tracking; DART proved kinetic deflection. Space junk re-enters under licensing rules (≤1 in 10,000 risk to humans); debris has injured people but no deaths recorded.
Notable examples
Massachusetts ocean meteor (sonic boom); Ann Hodges (1954 roof hit); Chelyabinsk fireball; asteroid 2024 YR4 (1% impact probability later ruled out); DART mission; ISS paint fleck dents; 2024 Florida house debris; China early-2000s debris injury; Iridium vs dead Russian satellite (2009).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOListener's Curiosity About Meteors
0:30 to 0:56
A listener questions the risk of being hit by a meteor.
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Listener's Curiosity About Meteors
1:00 to 1:40
A listener questions the risk of being hit by a meteor.
Understanding Meteor Terminology
1:40 to 3:56
Explaining the difference between meteoroids, meteors, and meteorites.
“into your back gardens or local parks or onto roofs, and looked up at the infinite mystery of space?”
The Desert Fireball Network
3:56 to 6:38
Dr. Hadrian de Villepoix discusses meteor observation and recovery.
“So, what are the chances that a space rock is going to come hurtling out of the sky with no warning and, in Scott's words, take you out?”
Frequency and Impact of Meteors
6:38 to 9:19
Discussing how often meteors hit the Earth and their potential danger.
“So if meteorites survive, then we make predictions about where they fall.”
Calculating Meteorite Impact Risk
9:19 to 13:20
Calculating the likelihood of being hit by a meteorite during one's lifetime.
“The vast majority of them just burn up completely or explode when they hit the atmosphere and fall as dust.”
Exploring Larger Space Threats
13:20 to 13:56
Transitioning to discuss larger cosmic threats beyond meteors.
“recorded by instruments that it's really hard to put tight air bars on how often they happen.”
Introduction to Asteroids
14:00 to 14:15
Exploration of larger celestial threats beyond meteoroids.
“There are some much bigger and scarier things out there.”
CrowdScience Introduction
14:46 to 15:19
Introduction to the show and the question posed by a listener about meteoroids.
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The Threat of Asteroids
15:19 to 16:48
Discussion on the potential risks of large asteroids impacting Earth.
“I'm Marnie Chesterton and I'm trying to answer a question from Scott in California.”
Show all 24 chapters
NASA's Role in Planetary Defense
16:48 to 18:36
Insights into NASA's planetary defense efforts and responsibilities.
“something that could do damage reaching that level was very significant.”
Cataloging Asteroids
18:36 to 20:30
Explanation of how NASA tracks and catalogs asteroids that may pose threats.
“So yes, you are a defence officer, not just for the US, but on a planetary scale.”
Estimating Risk from Asteroids
20:30 to 21:44
Analysis of the frequency and impact of large asteroids hitting Earth.
“So do we know where all the dangerous asteroids are?”
Consequences of Asteroid Impacts
21:44 to 22:37
Overview of potential consequences of asteroid impacts on Earth.
“Not just flattening by the rock itself, but crushed by the energy pulse it would release as it hits the atmosphere, or sliced apart by flying glass as the sonic boom shatters windows.”
Deflection Techniques for Asteroids
22:37 to 24:19
Discussion of various techniques being researched to deflect asteroids.
“Well, as you might expect, the Planetary Defence Coordination Office is ready to do some planet defending.”
Success of the DART Mission
24:19 to 25:09
Details of NASA's DART mission and its success in asteroid deflection testing.
“It was called the Double Asteroid Redirection Test, or DART.”
Understanding the Risks of Asteroid Impact
25:09 to 26:08
Reassurance regarding the low risk of asteroid impacts on daily life.
“When we're talking about the kinds of large asteroids that you work on, what's your answer to Scott?”
Empowerment Through Planetary Defense
26:08 to 26:58
Discussion on humanity's capacity to prevent asteroid disasters.
“Yes, this really should be empowering for people.”
Wonders Floating in Space
26:58 to 27:32
Introduction to various objects beyond asteroids that float in space.
“The smaller they are, the more likely they are to burn up entirely before they reach the surface of our planet.”
Space Junk and Its Risks
27:32 to 28:05
Understanding the implications of man-made objects in low Earth orbit.
“Because there's more than just meteoroids or asteroids whizzing about above your head.”
The Dangers of Space Junk
28:05 to 30:39
Learn about the accumulation of space debris and its potential impacts.
“When it's ejected into space, you know, it will freeze and form like crystals.”
Re-entering Space Debris
30:40 to 33:36
Understand how space debris may re-enter Earth's atmosphere and the risks involved.
“Yes, the Kessler syndrome is all about this cascade effect where one satellite gets hit by something in it and explodes, and that causes thousands of pieces of small fragments of debris.”
Close Calls with Space Debris
33:37 to 38:00
Explore instances of space debris falling to Earth and the associated risks.
“So a fair bit has come down over the years.”
The Future of Space Safety
38:01 to 38:40
Discuss the risks posed by space debris and the likelihood of future incidents.
“or a massive asteroid taking out you, all your neighbours and maybe even the entire planet, there's always some risk that we could meet our end at the hands of a space rock.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.
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1:39How many of you have gone out at night, into your back gardens or local parks or onto roofs, and looked up at the infinite mystery of space? When I was a very young boy, I had a telescope. The most interesting thing I saw was the rings of Saturn. I had seen pictures of it before. And I could see the shepherd mood too, which was great. You are listening to CrowdScience from the BBC World Service, the programme that launches itself into the infinity of science, fuelled by curiosity, on a mission to find answers to your questions. I'm Marnie Chesterton, and the voice you just heard is listener Scott.
2:21He may sound like he's speaking to us from space, but he's actually on a phone line from California in the US, where he's been keeping his eyes on the skies. Well, last month, a meteor crashed into the ocean off of the coast of the state of Massachusetts. And I was wondering, what kind of risk do we live under of getting taken out by a meteor? What's the likelihood of me getting hit by a meteor? That's my question. OK, tell me more about the meteor. How did people react to it at the time? Well, my friends back east, they heard a sonic boom and that was it. Were your friends back east genuinely concerned about getting hit?
3:04No, they didn't care at all. They just shrugged it off. New England is man. They were just like, ah. I reacted to it because I'm from Massachusetts, you see. And I left in 1992 and I thought, wow, I almost got hit. But it is one of those things. You know, if I want to avoid being hit by a tram, I won't go anywhere near the tram tracks. But if something comes from space and it's going to get me, there's nowhere to hide, really. Why didn't they see that one coming, man? That's what I want to know. OK. You want to know why we didn't see it coming, how many of them we don't see coming, and then do some maths.
3:44What chance is there that we might get struck by one? Yeah, exactly. I want to know. Am I going outside today or what? Thank you, Scott, for that cheery question. So, what are the chances that a space rock is going to come hurtling out of the sky with no warning and, in Scott's words, take you out? Could we predict when meteors are coming and maybe get out of the way? And in a world that seems to be getting more chaotic every day, is being hit by a meteor really something I need to be worrying about? First things first, I think we need to find out a little bit more about meteors. No, wait, meteoroids.
4:29Or is it meteorites? It is really confusing. Even for us working in this field, sometimes we get it wrong. So the current definition for these things is if you've got a rock in space, It can either be called an asteroid if it's rocky, or more of a comet if it's got icy material in it. But once you get to kind of smaller sizes and less than a metre, we call those meteoroids. A meteoroid is the rock out there flying through space. Like an asteroid, but under a metre in diameter. The optical phenomenon is what people see as a shooting star or meteor or fireball if it's really bright. The light show, basically, if you will.
5:06When a meteoroid passes through our atmosphere, it starts burning up and leaves a fiery trail behind it. That's when we call it a meteor. These things typically come at 15, 20 kilometres per second. An object that's a metre across will be as bright as the full moon, which is pretty cool to see. And then if it's the ground on the Earth, we call that meteorite. A meteorite is the rock once it's landed on the Earth and cooled down and hopefully been picked up by a scientist. So yeah, lots of terminology, confusing even for us. A scientist like this one, perhaps. Right, so I'm Dr. Hadrian de Villepoix.
5:47I'm originally from France and moved over to Australia to join a programme called the Desert Fireball Network. I've become the lead scientist of this fireball observation programme in Australia. Desert Fireball Network is a brilliant name, can I just say. So you're lead scientist of Desert Fireball Network. What does that entail? So the idea behind this observation programme is we've got these cameras looking up out in the outback in the network configuration, constantly taking pictures until we record one of those fireballs. The Desert Fireball Network doesn't just record the meteors as they streak a flaming path through our atmosphere.
6:27They use their cameras to triangulate the path each takes, predict where it might land, and then get out there to try and find it and bring it home for science. Oh, so that's the fun part of the job. So if meteorites survive, then we make predictions about where they fall. We can usually do that to a couple of square kilometres kind of uncertainty, but finding it is still a big challenge. A couple of square kilometres, trying to find something the size of a tennis ball, does sound like quite an advanced game of hide and seek. Yeah, or needle and a haystack, if you will. We don't always find them.
7:02You need a team of like six people looking like for days or maybe a week or two weeks to cover that whole area. So tell me about finding the treasure. What is it like? Oh, it's hard to describe. It's also hard to believe. We're actually doing some scouting of a site with a colleague of mine back in Australia before the main team was going to search. We were just having a look around. It's like, what does the ground look like? Is there lots of vegetation that's going to get in the way? Not hoping to find anything. And then we basically nearly stepped onto this rock. And looking at it to me, it was clear that it was a very convincing meteorite.
7:42But at that point, I thought my friend, my colleague had planted it there for us to find as a joke. So I did not believe him. He had the same suspicion about me. So we're in that funny thing for like a couple of minutes. It's like, are you tricking me? That's great. It turns out it was the rock we were after. And it's just incredible. Do we know how many meteors hit our planet on a daily basis? So meteors that people might be able to see, we get millions of those. But the bigger you go in size, the less frequent they are. And that's a real good thing. because once you get to like multi-kilometre sized objects, thank God they're not very frequent.
8:21Okay, and you are looking for meteorites. How much advance warning do you get? We get no warning. We basically know about them once they hit our atmosphere, so about 100 kilometres up. That's when they start making a light show. But while they're out in space to detect 10 centimetre cross meteoroids, you need a really, really big telescope. so most of them like we just don't detect we get zero warning until they hit our atmosphere oh wow and then how much time have you got between them hitting the atmosphere and them potentially hitting the ground the maximum warning you would be able to get is a couple minutes so there are millions of meteors hitting our atmosphere every single day they're too small to see them coming and once we do see them they'll hit the ground in mere minutes so far it's sounding like Scott could get a direct hit at any moment.
9:15But there's a twist. Not all meteors produce a meteorite. The vast majority of them just burn up completely or explode when they hit the atmosphere and fall as dust. Those aren't going to take anyone out. Phew. It's not just size, it also comes down to strength. If you've got a rock that's light and fluffy, not really well bound together, it will break up pretty quickly when it hits the atmosphere. whereas if you got say like a pure iron asteroids that impacts like this one's got much higher chance of surviving in one piece to the ground for example. Hadrian looks for the meteors which fall out in the barren Australian desert and there's not much chance of them harming anyone out there.
9:58Most of the earth's surface around 71 % in fact is ocean and the ones that fall out there are unlikely to hurt anyone either although one could knock out an unsuspecting fish I suppose. But of course, they do fall on human habitats as well. We've had several cases of meteorites going through roofs. Sometimes the easiest way of finding them is somebody reporting that they got a hole in their roof and a weird rock that's landed in their living room. It sounds unlikely, but actually this happened quite a few times. Bad news, Scott. Staying at home is not a foolproof strategy when it comes to avoiding meteors.
10:36The only known person in history to be hit by a meteorite was Ann Hodges. It happened in November 1954 in Alabama in the US. It was a big one too, about the size of a coconut. It left a three foot wide hole in her roof. Yeah, so I think what happened is the meteorite actually bounced off something else and then hit her on the leg. She got a pretty bad bruise. But we haven't had any recorded cases of people getting killed by meteorites. Our listener Scott wants to know what the chances are of being hit by a falling meteor. Is there any way of calculating that? I mean, how much risk do meteors pose to the average person during their lifetime?
11:20Yeah, that's an interesting question. So I run some numbers. We got some statistics on basically how often you get a meteorite big enough to survive atmospheric country and very rough back of the hand sort of calculation. If I was to estimate like what's the chance of you over the next year getting hit by one of these things, yeah, somewhere around one in a trillion. So really not a lot, definitely not something to worry about. The ones that you study are mostly fairly small, what centimetres, tens of centimetres. What happens, Hadrian, when larger rocks head our way. So what size does a space rock stop being an interesting scientific specimen and stop becoming something that might destroy a city?
12:05Yeah, what size does it become a problem? That size is around 10 metres. You've got an asteroid that's around 10 metres, punching for atmosphere at high speeds. It creates a shockwave. That shockwave is what does a lot of the damage. And that happened last time in Russia in 2013. So the Chelyminsk fireball over like central Russia. Ah, yes, I remember watching the dashcam footage. Yeah, it was a pretty impressive fireball, wasn't it? And the fireball was brighter than the sun as well, which was crazy. But that didn't hurt anyone. What really hurt people is a couple minutes later, once you got that giant sonic boom, creating like an overpressure and breaking windows and the broken glass is what hurt people.
12:47A lot of people. The Chelyabinsk meteor left 1 ,491 people with injuries serious enough to seek medical treatment, most of them from flying broken glass. Luckily, it didn't kill anyone on that occasion, but basically 10 metres is when things start getting dangerous. We're still working out the statistics on those objects, but something around the 20 metre size at Shell Bains, maybe once every 50 years. And as you get towards 50 metre size range, like maybe every 100 or 200 years. But those events are so rare, and they've been so rarely recorded by instruments that it's really hard to put tight air bars on how often they happen.
13:27Okay, so there's millions of meteors arriving every day, but very few of them survive all the way down to the Earth's surface, where they could smack you on the head. And when you factor in how much of our planet is uninhabited, the chances of one hitting you are really very small, one in a trillion, if Hadrian's very rough back-of-the-envelope calculation is to be believed. So far, Scott, I think you're safe. But meteors aren't the only things that might be hurtling through the cosmos on a beeline for our pale blue planet. There are some much bigger and scarier things out there. The meteoroid's big brother.
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15:18You're listening to CrowdScience from the BBC World Service. I'm Marnie Chesterton and I'm trying to answer a question from Scott in California. What's the risk of being hit by something plummeting to Earth from space? And if you thought a space rock the size of a washing machine was scary, how about one the size of a 15-storey tower block? Earlier in 2025, we were faced with an asteroid that was estimated ultimately to be about 60 metres in size. A terrifying threat with a less than terrifying scientific name. 2024 YR4. 2024 YR4 was discovered at the end of 2024 and by early 25, where it could be in 2032 intersected the Earth.
16:09This is the disaster scenario Hollywood dreams of. A massive asteroid zooming through space on its enormous four-year-long elliptical orbit around the Sun, but this time on a collision course with our planet. Well, kind of. Scientists' predictions indicate it was heading for our neighbourhood at least. To know if it would hit us, they need more data. It also went way, way off the Earth. It could have been anywhere around there. But for the first time in about two decades, this was an asteroid approaching a 1 % chance of impact in the future. It sounds low, but in our world, something that could do damage reaching that level was very significant.
16:51And as we got observations every night from the World Wide Network of Telescopes, the probability of impact in 2032 continued to rise. Kelly Fost is part of a team that detects massive asteroids out there in space and checks for the possibility of a direct hit on Earth. We weren't frightened because we knew that there was a high likelihood that eventually the impact probability would drop. but we took it very seriously. To be honest, when I spoke to the chief scientist of the Desert Fireball Network earlier in the program, I thought that that was going to be the coolest job title we were going to get.
17:33Kelly has just raised the stakes. My name is Kelly Fast. I am the acting planetary defence officer at NASA headquarters in Washington, D.C. I lead NASA's Planetary Defence Coordination Office. Planetary defence officer. Is that the best job title you've ever had? Absolutely, absolutely. It's a heavy responsibility, but it is fun to have a cool title to go with it. Back to that asteroid, 2024 YR4, hurtling our way and that 1 % chance of impact. Kelly and her team watched and waited for more data to come in. We've done exercises with hypothetical asteroids that could impact at some future date. All that's been very valuable, but to actually live it for real, I wouldn't say it was scary, but it was sobering.
18:27And ultimately, over time, we were able to get enough observations and be able to say, it's going to pass by the Earth. It's not going to be a problem. And that was a great test of the system to be able to retire a threat like that. Right. So yes, you are a defence officer, not just for the US, but on a planetary scale. So what does that entail? Well, here in the United States, NASA has the Planetary Defence Coordination Office taking the lead on finding asteroids and tracking them and getting them in the catalogue and looking to see if any pose an impact threat. Asteroids in our solar system are, like Earth, on an orbit around our sun.
19:06But they're not as neat as our nice, even, mostly circular orbit. They zoom way out wide and then back in tight on an elliptical orbit, which means there's a chance their route could overlap with ours. You can't just spot an asteroid once and then know where it's going to be in the future. You have to get multiple observations as it moves across the sky to be able to tell you, 10, 20, 100 years into the future, is it going to be in the same place at the same time as the Earth? And what kind of objects that might come close to the Earth are you interested in defending us from? We have a metric to find the asteroids that are estimated to be about 140 metres and larger in size.
19:53Unlike the smaller meteoroids, like the ones Hadrian is scanning the skies for, or the ones Scott saw on the news, asteroids of this size are visible out in space. They're so big that they reflect sunlight as they hurtle through the dark so telescopes can pick them up. Everything Kelly and her team find gets logged in the catalogue. We catalogue anything we find because asteroids smaller than that could pose a threat. We're finding asteroids of all sizes, getting them into the catalogue and then being able to check them off and say, OK, that is not the asteroid we're worried about. Let's keep looking.
20:32So do we know where all the dangerous asteroids are? If you talk about like the one kilometer and larger asteroids, you know, something that could have global effects or they like to talk about the dinosaurs with those. The nice thing is we're not finding many of those at all every year, maybe one or two. Those are the planet killers, right? Yeah, some people say that. And the nice thing is, we're not so worried about that because we know that population pretty well. So let's now look at the ones that could, we're maybe not so much worried about global consequences, but what about regional consequences?
21:05And so that's this size range, 140 meters and larger. That is estimated to be about 25 ,000. We have about 46 % of those, but there is still a ways to go. So how often do asteroids large enough to cause regional damage actually hit the Earth? That's like a one in 5 ,000 year event. So, I mean, we are talking very infrequent. As you go larger in size, it would be even less frequent as you went up to like the 140 meter in size or larger than you get to tens of thousands or millions of years even for these really large ones. you know space is big for the earth and an asteroid to come into the same place at the same time it's a rare event we are talking about something that might not happen in our careers or lifetimes or for thousands of years or or next week we're not sure with these bigger asteroids although the chances of being hit are still minuscule there are a lot more ways of meeting your end if it does happen.
22:11Not just flattening by the rock itself, but crushed by the energy pulse it would release as it hits the atmosphere, or sliced apart by flying glass as the sonic boom shatters windows. Trees or buildings could be levelled, if one falls into the sea there could be a tsunami, and there could be knock-on effects in the weeks or months afterwards, dust particles in the atmosphere or climate disruption. So what do we do if one is heading our way? Well, as you might expect, the Planetary Defence Coordination Office is ready to do some planet defending. We do fund teams who look at deflection techniques.
22:53Gravity tractor, what if you positioned the spacecraft as a mass next to an asteroid and you had lots of time to just sort of tug it with gravity? ion beam deflection, where you use like an ion engine on your spacecraft, firing ions at the asteroid in these slow push techniques. We even collaborate with the US National Laboratories here on modelling what Hollywood likes to go to, you know, a nuclear deflection option. Okay, so you've got kinetic impactors, so fire things at it, or you've got gravity tractors, So use gravity to try and pull it to a different course. And you've got nuclear to blow it up.
23:32Or to deflect it, yes. And it really, all of it, it does depend on the asteroid because you might want to say, OK, that's a rubbly asteroid that we want to be careful how we deflect it so we don't break it into multiple pieces. Those are all important questions. And honestly, all of that really does depend on the asteroid. And this work isn't just in the hypothetical realm. In 2021, NASA sent an actual unmanned spacecraft to an actual asteroid, well, a small moonlet orbiting an asteroid, smashed into it at around 14 ,000 miles per hour and successfully knocked it very slightly off course. This wasn't an asteroid heading for Earth, just a test of the technology.
24:18But it worked. It was called the Double Asteroid Redirection Test, or DART. With the DART mission, NASA was hoping to actually test a deflection technique, the kinetic impact technique. That's a technical way of hitting it really hard. Yeah, right. That's a way of saying you want to hit an asteroid with your spacecraft. Very expensive spacecraft, but it's for a good cause, yes. And so NASA's goal was to, first of all, test the technique. Like, can we even hit an asteroid? But then to actually measure what the deflection was. And so that actually showed us we can actually change the path of an object in space.
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25:00We have the power to do that. So, you know, it is possible to actually avoid this type of natural disaster. So going back to our listener, Scott, who wanted us to find out how much of a risk it is. When we're talking about the kinds of large asteroids that you work on, what's your answer to Scott? Hmm. I don't have like the statistical odds in front of me or anything, but some of these smaller asteroids that could do damage if it's like a once a century or once every 5 ,000 year event, you know, he can just live his life and be happy. Bottom line is he should not be losing sleep over this because, honestly, all the other natural disasters happen far more often.
25:45This might not make him feel better, but there are other risks in life that happen every day. It is so low on the list. And if anything, he should be encouraged by the fact that NASA is doing something about it. The worldwide community is doing something about it. And so it's not something that should keep him up at night, that's for sure. Do you feel that humanity is now entering an era where, for the first time in Earth's history, we might actually be able to prevent a natural asteroid disaster? Yes, this really should be empowering for people. I know that people get worried about asteroids.
26:24You know, they see sensationalizing in the news or they see the movies and they can get worried about it. But this should actually be really empowering. It's a natural disaster that we actually, for the first time in history, have the power to potentially prevent. So we're just doing what we can to make sure that we're ready for something that might not ever happen in our lifetimes. If it's not for us right now, then it's for our descendants, this gift to the future, to keep surveying the skies for something that is truly very rare but still could happen. So, meteoroids and asteroids come in all sizes.
27:01The smaller they are, the more likely they are to burn up entirely before they reach the surface of our planet. And the larger they are, the more likely we are to be able to see them coming and get out of their way. Or get them out of our way, with the help of Kelly and her team. This is all pretty comforting news. But Scott, if you're worried about the kinds of things up there in space that could come crashing down to Earth and potentially bounce off the top of your head, I'm afraid there's one more thing we haven't accounted for. Because there's more than just meteoroids or asteroids whizzing about above your head.
27:41There's lots of wondrous things floating around there in space. So there's toolkits that came off, I think it was the ISS that was being serviced and they lost a toolkit. There's a glove as well, urine crystals that are floating around there for some of the Apollo day emissions. So tell me about urine crystals. I'm fascinated by this. So, hang on, so early space missions, they just jettison astronauts P out of the spaceship? They definitely did do that, yes. When it's ejected into space, you know, it will freeze and form like crystals. But then it's just flowing around space. And like everything floating around in orbit is going at 7.5 kilometres per second or faster.
28:17That could still cause a problem. And I'm not an expert on neural crystals, I'm afraid. I can't really give you much expertise there. Stephen Wokes might not be an expert in cosmic urine crystals, but he is an expert in the kinds of man-made space junk that's floating around in low Earth orbit in huge quantities. Since the space age began back in the 60s, there's been all nations putting up a lot of satellites into space. In the early days, people used to launch these satellites, they did their mission for 5, 10 years, and then they just died in orbit. And that was just acceptable, and then you launched some new ones.
28:53So over the decades, there's a lot of build-up of dead satellites. And in addition to that, there's been some break-ups of satellites where things have either hit each other or things have happened internally and fragments have broken off. In low-eth orbit, you're moving at 7.5 km per second. At that speed, even if you're a 1 cm piece of aluminium, you're going to just shred the thing you're hitting. So that's a serious problem. We've had in the past flecks of paint cause dents in ISS windows. So ISS, the International Space Station. It's been hit by flecks of paint and they've dented the glass.
29:26So can you imagine how much mass a fleck of paint has? It's tiny. But the problem is it's travelling faster than a bullet. So you feel it when it hits. I've suited up in squeaky clean overalls, protective hairnet and little blue booties to come in here, one of the clean rooms at Astroscale UK. Chief Engineer Steve is directing my attention through the enormous window in front of me to an even cleaner room where their satellite is being built. So that is the current spacecraft that we're building. There are other spacecraft in design phases, but they're much earlier on. This is the one that by the end of the year will be ready to launch.
30:03Because Astroscale are in the business of trying to clean up space. So our satellites are designed to get close to and then interact with other satellites, docking to them or doing other services as well. But for this satellite, it's going up and then it's going to bring down some pieces of debris. some old dead satellites that are tumbling, that's quite tricky to do, to grab a tumbling satellite. In fact, it's never been done before, so this is the world's first. Astroscale, and to be honest, the whole space community, are concerned about bits of this junk smashing into a live satellite and taking it out.
30:39But there's an even scarier scenario that could be on the horizon. It's known as the Kessler syndrome. Yes, the Kessler syndrome is all about this cascade effect where one satellite gets hit by something in it and explodes, and that causes thousands of pieces of small fragments of debris. They go on and impact other satellites, and they explode, and it's like a chain reaction, and more and more satellites explode, and you just get millions of pieces of debris, and you have a cascade effect, and suddenly no one can use space. There have been in-orbit collisions between satellites. There was one in 2009 where an Iridium satellite hit a dead Russian satellite, and both of them got pulverized into thousands of pieces of debris.
31:17and everyone's worried at that point always is to start the Kistler syndrome but it hasn't led to a chain reaction event the question is how many things have to explode like that for you to actually get this chain reaction it's it's not an easy question to answer and the end case scenario is so many tiny fragments that we can't use space anymore that would be a serious problem for us because we rely on space for a lot of communications and weather you know hurricane warnings and things like that is a serious problem. It's clear that space junk can cause serious issues up in space. In this program we are more interested about ourselves on the ground.
31:54Do we know how much to worry about this stuff falling to Earth? So the Earth's atmosphere obviously kind of decays almost exponentially as you raise an altitude but even at 500, 600, 700 kilometers it still has an effect on the orbits of spacecraft. It's very gentle but it's always there. That means over time and the orbits very slowly decay, that's a lot of things sitting there that eventually, at the end of their life, are going to come down and re-enter the Earth's atmosphere. Now, when they do that, hopefully they burn up. Good use of hopefully. Yes, so they are designed to burn up. So in all Western cultures, the US, Europe and things like that, you need a license to launch.
32:37And part of the regulation around that is you need to ensure that when your satellite re-enters the Earth's atmosphere, the threat it poses to humans on the ground is less than 1 in 10 ,000. And that's fairly standard across most of the space-faring nations. What bits are more likely to survive? If you pick it apart, like a screw versus a bracket, what's going to survive? Small bits of electronics and aluminium and brackets, they're usually not so much a concern. Aluminium melts at a fairly low temperature, so normally if it's made of aluminium, it doesn't reach the ground. whereas titanium tanks they tend to survive titanium's got a much higher melting point and it's much more resistant so aluminium just kind of vaporizes and then just goes into the upper atmosphere yeah essentially it reaches melting point then it'll ablate and it'll just become like gas in the upper atmosphere yeah so if the risk of something in your satellite coming back down to earth is lower than one in 10 ,000 then you get a tick and it's allowed to go up there.
33:42Yep agreed. Has much space junk fallen to earth? Has any of it hurt anyone? So a fair bit has come down over the years. Most of it of course when it comes down it hits the ocean, goes to the bottom of the sea floor, it's gone completely. But there have been some close calls, there's been property damage. There's a case back in 2024 where a Florida house was hit by a piece of debris. There were people in the house at the time and it went through the roof the upper floor and hit the lounge and it didn't harm anyone but if they were sitting in the wrong place or standing in the wrong place they would have been hurt or killed yeah so there's been some close calls there's been two people actually hit by debris to date the first one was in america before 2000 but they weren't injured it was a piece of like i think carbon fiber from the description so although it came down and hit their shoulder it didn't do enough any significant damage at all the other Another case was in the early 2000s where a kid in China got hit by a piece of debris and it did actually injure him.
34:37I think it broke his toe and it skimmed past his head. No serious long-term injuries and thankfully no one's been killed to date. It's never happened. But the risk is growing as more satellites get put up there. And it is inevitable. Unfortunately, at some point, yes, the likelihood is someone's going to die. Astroscale's solution is to get up there and get cleaning. And that's where the spacecraft I'm looking at comes in. We're going to get the old dead satellites and bring them down. Because this spacecraft is designed to go up, grab a piece of space debris, bring it down and then go up after another one.
35:10So it can do multiple pieces of space debris removal in one mission before itself then de-orbiting. I think a key bit of the technology that we ought to talk about is how your satellite gets hold of another satellite. Can you talk me through that? So they're equipped with a docking plate, a feature that allows you to grab hold of it and it's designed to be grabbed. What does a docking plate look like? Aha, well my colleague has one right here. Oh, can I touch this? It's small. This is the Astroscale docking plate. It's about 10 to 15 centimetres in diameter and it's got these legs which support it.
35:47It is magnetic and you can grapple with it mechanically as well. Ah, okay, so this feels like a miniature table that I could just put on my desk and put my cup of tea on it, but it's magnetic you say? So these three legs bolt onto the satellite? and then the tabletop, as I'm going to call it, that's magnetic and your satellite just pings onto it in space. Yeah, it comes in and it snaps onto that surface. And these docking plates, how many of them are actually in space at the moment? Got to be close to about 1 ,000 now of docking plates that are fitted on craft. But it's still a fraction of those satellites that are up there.
36:25And the regulators are putting more demands upon all satellites that are being launched to be serviceable, because they know there's a problem with satellites getting launched and then they die prematurely and you can't bring them down. So they are saying to satellite manufacturers everywhere, you've got to have a backup means of bringing down your satellite. But the industry knows it needs to get better at this, and we've got to actually regulate this harder and put more consequences on if companies don't do this. Astroscale also have a robotic arm, which they can use to grab on to bits of space junk which don't have their docking plate attached.
36:59And it's not just trash removal either. With their docking plate, Astroscale can also get there and service satellites which need repairs before they die so that they don't become space junk in the first place. But until this kind of innovation is on every piece of tech we send into orbit, there's still a risk of satellites falling to Earth. Over the next 10 years, the likelihood is one person will die from piece of space debris. If you compare that to the number of people that die over the next 10 years from car crashes, or airplane flights, or disease, or hurricanes, this is still a very low number given that this is one person in the world's population.
37:38So that's one person in 8 billion is going to die over the next 10 years. So it's not great, I wish the number was zero, but it's still a very low chance of any single person listening to this that they're going to get killed. The chance is very low. So, whether it's smaller meteoroids crashing through your roof, bouncing off your coffee table and smacking you in the head, or a massive asteroid taking out you, all your neighbours and maybe even the entire planet, there's always some risk that we could meet our end at the hands of a space rock. But it's far, far more likely that we'll be the agent of our own destruction.
38:19A chunk of dead satellite is far more likely to be the thing that takes you out than anything from the outer edges of our solar system. We've used low Earth orbit as a dumping ground for our space-age trash, and one day it'll come back to us. Still, CrowdScience listeners, I don't think you need to panic here. All of this is fantastically unlikely. You can put away your titanium umbrella for now. thank you Scott for a great question and over to you for the credits you've been listening to CrowdScience on the BBC World Service the question was from me Scott in San Francisco California the presenter was Marnie Chesterton and the producer was Emily Knight if you've got a science question you'd like the team to answer you can email it to crowdscience at bbc.co.uk or voice note at whatsapp.
39:21The number is plus 44-8000-314-773. That number again is plus 44-8000-314-773. Thank you for listening and don't forget to look up.
39:47Hello, Greg Jenner here. I'm the host of You're Dead to Me, the BBC comedy show that takes history seriously. Every episode, I pair up a top historian with a fantastic comedian, and we have a lovely, funny, fascinating chat about a different subject from world history. And in this new series, we're beginning with an epic voyage through the story of Homer, the Iliad, and the Odyssey. And that's with Kyle Smith-Bino joining us. And then we'll be learning about Francis Galton and the racist, discredited pseudoscience of eugenics with Desiree Birch. We'll meet many medieval saints in their bone boxes with Rachel Parris.
40:20So if that sounds like your sort of thing, listen to You're Dead to Me wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. Bye.
From the publisher
Stare up at the night sky, and if you’re lucky, you might see a shooting star. Some people might make a wish, but CrowdScience listener Scott in California in the USA, thinks differently. He’s wondering how dangerous they might be.
Shooting stars are actually meteors, ending their incredible journey whizzing through the depths of space by burning through our atmosphere, and crashing down to earth. And Scott’s not wrong to worry about them! In May 2026, an enormous meteor exploded off the coast of Massachusetts, causing a loud sonic boom before crashing into the ocean, releasing the equivalent energy of 300 tons of TNT!
So, how many meteors make it to our atmosphere in the first place? How many of them survive long enough to make it to the surface? How many come down in places where people live, and how much should we be worried about it happening to us?
Marnie Chesterton is peering up into the sky for answers.
PRESENTER: Marnie Chesterton
PRODUCER: Emily Knight
EDITOR: Ben Motley
(photo: Meteor Impact On Earth - Fired Asteroid In Collision With Planet - Contain 3d Rendering - elements of this image furnished by NASA - stock photo- Credit: RomoloTavani via Getty Images)
