169. Matt Stephens: Pogačar's crash, women's Monuments, and transfer talk

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1:39Welcome back to another episode of the Cyclist Magazine podcast. The clocks have changed, but we are still exactly the same. I'm Will Strickson. I'm here with Robin Davison. Robin, it's your show today. How are you feeling? I'm feeling great. they they gave me the keys and i've turned them and now i'm on the road but i don't have my driver's license you're being you're being driven and it's your favorite time of year halloween like everyone i'm sure listening that they they wait all year round for halloween when they can go and scare little children and things like that um we weren't dilly dally too much in the intro we'll save the dilly dallying for the end because that's the best place for doing such activities yeah we weren't no no scary intros this time we'll just let because this this interview as you've probably seen in the title who it's with so it's very exciting so Robin you did this one solo so I'll let you let you guide us in oh I'll guide us in on the cyclist magazine podcast today is a man that needs a little introduction I would say former professional cyclist current cycling commentator and very interesting on Instagram.

2:50It's Matt Stephens.

2:58So I'm joined here today on the Cyclist Magazine podcast by the one and only Matt Stephens. Matt, how are you? How are things? What's going on?

3:09Robyn: I'm good. I'm still a bit weary from traveling. it's been a really big year but no, although the cycling season is sort of winding down now I was at Lombardia over the weekend which was great and Gran Piemonte on site for the Italians which was fantastic took my little folding bike with me so that was quite, that was lovely it's a long gig in terms of Lombardia because it's flagged a line but Piemonte is only two hours of commentary and then the rest of it is hanging out in a lovely part of Italy so it's like, it's good but I'm good I've got a lot more coming this season before it properly winds down but I'm good yeah I've just lived it out of a suitcase really at the moment but that's what I do and it's a privilege And what do you have going on for the rest of the season?

3:54Because I know we say Lombardia is sort of the end but what's coming up for you?

4:01Robyn: What's coming up? Without consulting my diary my electronic diary so I'm off to the LeBlanc Festival on Wednesday morning so I go down to the airport tomorrow in London. So that'll be a lot of fun. We've got Marianne Vos, we've got Marcel Kittel, we've got Wout van Aert, and all are Adam, Danny, and me and the gang, and another roughly 600 people hanging out, riding bikes, having a boogie, and eating nice food. So that'll be fun. That's till Sunday. Then I get back and... Oh, it's the Tour de France launch next week, isn't it? Yeah, it is, yeah. So I'm heading over to Paris to hook up with Froomey, Chris Froome, and I'm working for Skoda on that one.

4:45Robyn: So we're just going to cover the Tour de France fam and the Tour de France chaps, the roots. The Tour de France chaps, yeah, abec chaps. Do that for a couple of days. Then it's quite busy. Then I'm doing an event in Trenton Gardens in Stoke-on-Trent, an evening with me for a little cafe there. Then I'm doing the National Hill Club Championships down in Devon, at Pawlock. So I drive down to Devon, do an evening's chat on the Saturday, then I host the National Hill Climb. Then I drive to London and get on a plane to fly to New York for a charity event. And I'm there till Thursday. That's a charity called Star Trek, which basically has been raising money for the last 20 years for kids in deprived areas in New York, getting them on bikes.

5:34Robyn: And so far, they've seen a couple of riders go through the ranks there and end up in the World Tour, which is really cool. So I'm doing that with, I think Wiggo's coming over, and we've got Jasper Philipser. That's through Zwift, who, again, I do a lot of work with. So New York. And then I've got a couple of secret cafe rides. I can't disclose the guests, but two more of those in November. And one's in Portugal, one's in Belgium, that's all I can say. Okay. And then Ruler Live as well in November. And then it drops off. then hopefully I can, me and my wife Holly can go on holiday somewhere. So, but that's what it looks like.

6:11Well, I'm surprised we've managed to book you in. You're so booked and busy.

6:16Robyn: Yeah, no, I saw this little slot and I thought, yeah, I've obviously found of your work, Robin, and it's a lovely magazine. So I thought, well, I've got a little window. I had a lion this morning and I've had a couple of cups of coffee. So yeah, I'm happy to sit and have a natter with you. Oh, well, thank you for the kind words. So we are actually talking off the back of Ilombardia. Yeah. And that was frankly incredible to witness because obviously we saw riders protesting at the very beginning, protesting for safer racing conditions. It was brilliant to see the peloton so united. I think sometimes it can be a bit fractured for whatever reason.

6:57But the fact that they had come together to demand safer racing conditions, I thought was incredible. What's your take on it?

7:04Robyn: I think it was wonderful. It's a shame that it had to come to this after, you know, we lost Finn Tarlene. But there's been a couple of other incidents very recently that I can't believe somebody wasn't more seriously hurt. And two of them, it was, so one of the Italian, was it Tre Valli Veresine, where a couple of Tom Peacock's teammates were hit, weren't they, by a police motorbike going in the wrong direction. So there's that, there's been a lot of other incidents this year. and I think it's good to show that unified approach. It came as a little bit of a surprise, I think even to the organisers, but because me and Ned Bolting, who I was commentating with, were on-site working for RCS, the Italian organisation who owns that portfolio of races, including the Giro, we were very close to the organisers and even before I think Eurosport came online or TNT, HBO Max came online, we were privy to some of the pictures and there was a lot of discussions going on between Giulio Ciccone and Remco and the organisers.

8:04Robyn: And I thought, oh, something's brewing here. And then we had the announcement. But to get the microphone there, normally we just hear, I think it's quite unprecedented. We've had statements from riders, we've had statements from teams, we've had statements from the riders' union, but we've never had a talismanic leader such as, oh, he's taken on the mantle of that, Remco, or anything like it, grab a microphone and use the PA system to address the peloton, on the organisers, the public, and the wider public in such a fashion. It's utterly unique. And I'm glad that they were allowed to do that. And what me and Ned took from it was, firstly, it wasn't a direct dig at RCS at all.

8:42Robyn: It was more before the biggest, well, the final race of the year. It's going to have a big global audience. And especially off the back of the proximity of the interns that we've talked about, it was the right thing to do. And I just hope that it's a really, it shouldn't be a complex issue, but it is. And we, off the back of that, me and Ned had quite a long discussion. A lot of you in Britain wouldn't have heard it because we do the world feed, which basically goes out to countries that don't have Eurosport, etc. And who take this language. But I've no doubt other commentators were talking about it too.

9:14Robyn: But it's, we've got, not ironically, but sadly, the smaller the race, the less budget it has. Generally, you have riders who are just looking to turn professional, the under 23 ranks. You're looking at younger riders who are bizarrely exposed to more dangerous conditions. That's the takeaway from it. And right at the top, you've got the Tour de France, which is the safest race because they've got the budget to literally block off every single road. And we're not just saying putting a police officer or a locally appointed government volunteer at a road junction. If you've been to the tour, which you have, Robin, you'll know that They put concrete blocks, tractors, lorries, everything literally is blocked.

9:54Robyn: So they cannot be, even if anybody's minded to want to actually actively get on the course to cause disruption or injury, they can't do it. But not every race can do that. Road racing has its inherent dangers, but surely there must be something we can do to come together to try and look at limiting. Well, there's no way that cars should be allowed on the course. the mind actually boggles but because of budgetary restraints not every road is shut and all it takes is a member of the public to either naively just drive onto the course or not adhere to police instructions and there isn't a lot in between and then they're on the course and then we've seen what can happen so it is a very difficult one but road racing is inherently dangerous but there are certain dangers which I think riders accept just riding on the open roads and the risk of just crashing in the peloton.

10:50Robyn: We know they're tackling that now, aren't they? Quite possibly with these protective suits that kind of pop up, stuff like that. So there's lots of other things being looked at. But cycling is inherently dangerous. But some of the more recent incidents just should not happen. And it's how do we address that? And where does the money come from? Because it can't just be... It's not something you can click your fingers and change. Going into next year, you're not going to see... Most races do have a rolling road closure at the very minimum. but you're not suddenly going to see every road junction marshaled next year.

11:20Robyn: We are still going to be exposed. So how do we protect from these instances going forward? And it is a nuanced, complex issue, but it does need to be at the very top of the agenda, ahead of everything else. I think what frustrates people is, I know the UCI have always, you know, I'm not defending them as such, but they do have a complicated job. But some of the rules that have come out, really, and clearly the effort that's gone into looking at those rules and getting them written up, you do wonder. I think safety should be where the vast majority of the budgets are set at. Obviously, we need to keep bikes not looking like they're motorbikes or recumbents, but I do think that more money should be moved towards ensuring that there's safety across all races, even if it's a percentage of the bigger organisers helping out the smaller organisers, or there's a central pot for organisers to focus on safety.

12:15Robyn: so I don't like road racing doesn't I mean ASO make a lot of money I don't know if RCS make a lot of money but surely there's something central that can be done so everybody can take a little bit of the slice of some money to actually ensure the riders are going to be saved because it just isn't good enough sorry that was a long ramble wasn't it it's complex but simple want to keep them safe but when you look at how do we do that you cannot just magic people out of the air to protect these vulnerable locations in races But I think ultimately what we might move towards, I know there's a lot of changes in the background.

12:51Robyn: A few I thought would be announced are going to be announced soon. But I think we might be moving more towards circuit-based races, which for a smaller race organiser, you can actually relatively easily ensure that a circuit's locked down. Even like 15, 16k circuit. that's the sort of road racing that we saw in the UK when I was racing I know the racing team in the UK is enormously diminished unfortunately because of the money that isn't available the anti-cycling lobby that's knocking about as well but essentially when I was in my formative years there'd be literally dozens of races every weekend on a left-handed circuit where you could marshal them pretty safely and you wouldn't get a car on the circuit in an amateur race so when you look at that I think that might be the way going forwards but then the big classics which have got massive budgets, you can lock those down because of the budget that's available.

13:46Robyn: I think that's what we might, we might be heading towards a model, something like that. That's the way I look at it anyway. No, yeah, I would say that I agree with you there. I think definitely a sort of central part that trickles down to the races that do almost need it most is definitely a solid concept. And it's almost crazy that, at least that I'm aware, it hasn't happened just yet. Yeah, also, it's unfortunate to start the podcast on such a sombre note, but it's such an incredibly important, the biggest issue that's facing cycling right now, and it has done for years. So, yeah, thank you for your take on that.

14:22Robyn: No problem at all. And fair play to the riders for taking that call. As I say, cycling is quite a big family, but ultimately, when you look at it, even extending through the riders and the teams, the press corps, the organisers, brands, generally it's quite a small world and we all we all know each other and we've got to look after each other and first and foremost is safety and then the rest is built on top of that otherwise it's pretty shaky foundations and unfortunately we are whether i know that there's um i don't know what it's called but there's some sort of bit of research that's been ongoing for a couple of years actually measuring the safer system yeah but as well as yeah it's actually quantifying how many crashes there are in races and what's the reason because we have a perception primarily due to the amount of bike races that are on telly and the subsequent social media focus, we do have a perception that racing is becoming not as safe and I don't know whether that is the case because certainly when I was racing there'd be accidents left, right and centre, even moving at slightly slower speeds with poorer tyres poorer brakes, so I think it'd be interesting to look at the data but I think because every single crash in a bike race is put on Instagram and it gets thousands and thousands of views it is rightly at the forefront of our mind and I think it's probably due to the exposure that racing has now and some of the serious injuries and unfortunately fatalities is that it's really a big focus because it's constantly always moves to the front as it should and that it's not being sensationalised, it's just underlining how dangerous the sport can be and that there's still a lot of work to be done But well done to the riders for showing a really unified front there.

16:02Robyn: You know, they're all, you know, wanting to take chunks out of each other at the back end of a hard race, but ultimately a lot of them are friends. Everybody knows each other. They're all in the same boat, and it was nice to show a unified front. I just hope that something is done about it, and I hope that it is at the top of the priority list for the UCI and race organisers and that everybody comes to the table and sorts something out. Completely agreed here. There we go. in terms of the racing as well you've been front seat for a lot of it on commentary duties we have had some of the best racing I would say to close out 2026 unfortunately as a result of Tadej Pagacar's injuries which no one wishes which result I guess surprised you the most somebody if we go to the Vuelta first we look at Tadej Enric Mas's victory didn't surprise me I just liked the open racing I mean none of us wanted to see Tade crash and I was having this conversation with Ned and somebody else the other day when you look at Tade's run of well the shape he's been in or just the rider he is over the last 5 or 6 years and he's had relatively although he has had a few offs in races like he's had some crashes in the Tour where he's slid out taking skin off he's crashed in Man San Remo then went and won it and his most significant crash and subsequent injury was breaking his wrist in Liege, wasn't it, a few years ago, which clearly did affect his running to the Tour, which he lost to Jonas.

17:29Robyn: But comparing him to other riders like Remco, even like Mathieu, Wout, he hasn't had that many crashes, and he hasn't had that many obstacles thrown in his way in terms of injuries, and that could be due to just his innate skill as a bike rider, the fact that he's always in the right place at the right time. There's an element of luck there, but quite often there are certain riders who crash more because they just don't ride as well. they're not quite as astute, they don't have that innate sense of where to be but even factoring in that, the inherent skill of a rider what you've got to look at is just math, like probability and the probability of Tadej Pogacar not having an incident I mean, we were looking at the probability was just like well, he cannot continue this run of not finishing a stage race, for example and he's never not finished a stage race since about seven years or something something ridiculous through his junior ranks every stage race he's entered is generally one.

18:25Robyn: Is it 56? 56 or 57 stage races is finished in a row. I'd say 56, but I'm not 100 % on that. Yeah, it's in that number. We agree roughly on that. Anecdotally, that's the sort. You've got to look at just the probability and there was a certain sense of inevitability that Tade would crash at some point. And unfortunately for him and the team, it happened in the Vuelta. but what that did is open the race widely and we had a really exciting Vuelta every stage was breakneck speed I was confounded a lot of the times by what was going on you kind of had to rip up the rule book you had to rip up your perception and understanding of how a race should be won how teams were riding so I really enjoyed the chaos once he was removed because he's so dominant and his team are so dominant you can start to predict what's going to happen on certain stages.

19:23Robyn: And the fact that he could dictate terms meant that a lot of the racing had the kind of oxygen throttled from it. And that's not a criticism of Tadej at all. Because if I had his capabilities, I'd be winning everything I wanted to. And I think I'd have a responsibility to not give anything away. And if anybody wanted to step on the podium alongside me, then good luck. You do not give anything away. I think a slightly different story when you look at certain stages that maybe they could have backed off and let the breakaway stay clear. That's, I think, a separate conversation. But it meant we had this power vacuum, very much like a country where a dictator has fallen and suddenly you've got all these different factions moving in, different governments wanting a slice.

20:06Robyn: I'm not going to use a particular place, but you know what I'm talking about? You could use it almost like in a geopolitical sense. And suddenly you had this, you had like almost like civil war going on in terms of racing and it was absolutely fantastic. all these different factions, all these, and people suddenly, in a moment, in one day, having to think, right, we've got to rethink the way we race, you know, and you're going to have to use riders for different means, and we can actually legitimately think about winning this bike race now, or winning stages. So there's the trickle down, there's the riders having to, or having the opportunity to step up and try and win overall.

20:40Robyn: And also, the in-between bits were filled in, where there's stages, intermediate stages, that could have had Tadeh written on it or might not, that now were legitimate breakaway days. So we saw even more teams getting involved in trying to be active in breaks. So we had pre-Taddei racing, which was evolving anyway. Then we had the Taddei racing era. And now for the short window of a couple of months, including Lombardia, which we'll touch on in a moment, and the Worlds, we've got post-Taddei racing. Now what 2027 looked like remains to be seen because no doubt he'll be back and probably stronger than ever, but it might be slightly different.

21:16Robyn: So it's really, really interesting when you have such a dominant rider with such a good run of shape, luck, probability. His luck's run out, as it does in cycling. This isn't a fault of his, it's just numbers. And what it's created is this chaos at the end of the year, which we had a beautiful Vuelta, and then we had a wonderfully chaotic world championships, which I thought was just bonkers. I don't know what you thought of it. I mean, both of them, the elite championships. I mean, the elite women's championships which was more of a what you thought might happen, you know, Demi v Cassia v Elisa.

21:51Robyn: And that was just brilliant. The way that race came together, went away, and thought, oh, Demi's going to ride away. Oh, no, she's not. She's caught again. And it was, the tension and the drama there was brilliant. And then Cassia cramping up in the last few metres. And the men's race, even more, like, tactically nuanced. It wasn't, I mean, all the hitters were there or thereabouts, but all of them, all of them, apart from the Americans, were just showing their hand. Here's how strong I am. Here's how strong I am. All of them were doing it. and ultimately within that you had Brandon McNulty and the whole American team, they rode an absolute blinder of a race being represented up the front and then McNulty did one move in the whole race and that won.

22:31Robyn: Yeah, that was the winning one. Yeah, just brilliant. Attacked at the right point. We know how strong he is and also I know he's quite a surprising world champion but when you look at what he's achieved over the last few years and why he can ride in the service of Taddy and the Grand Tours, he's got a big engine, that lad. But you rode smart and you rode strong. But importantly, the Americans just played a blinder. And they just were quiet. They were present, but they were quiet. And they took their chances. But two completely different road races. But otherwise, I think it might have been a Tade domination again.

23:05Robyn: Just wait at me, going with maybe, we don't know what would have happened. But we can imagine various scenarios. But what we got instead was an absolutely thrilling bike race. which I think Taddy would have looked on and been a bit more than disappointed he wasn't there but to have the rainbow jersey back in the team or remaining in the team is going to be an interesting one and especially next year how they're going to use him it's going to be an interesting proposition It will, I was thinking as well some people might forget that it's not Pigaccia in the rainbow jersey so they're like oh there's Pigaccia going again and it's actually, no it's the American this time Yeah exactly, do a double take But the women's race though oh I was really looking forward to these world championships and I did think that Demi Vollering would break away but the absolute determination of one Cassia Nui-Odoma Finney just the she had like the bit between her teeth and I don't know whether it was from losing out on the Mollie Jeune at the Tour de France Femme she just seemed to possess this almost extra level and I love talking to Cassia I think she's an incredible athlete and it was just it was so fitting I guess that she managed to claw her back.

24:12And then it was the Tour de France femme podium as the same one, two, three. But then you even had Marlon Royce, who could have been in the equation if she didn't, she was caught out in the wrong place when feeding. It was so enthralling. It does, and I did want to ask you this question. Do you think that there should be a women's version of a Lombardia? Or do you think that they should get their own different monument, I guess, to build up? because I know that there's all this pre-TV coverage and people know what's going on with Lombardia. So they would then know what's going on. But yeah, what do you think?

24:50Not to step on your moment.

24:52Robyn: Yeah, no, firstly, just to address the other world and I touched on it. I was there, I had to get back. I didn't see the men's world on site, but I did catch it. And luckily, because the time gap, pretty much saw the whole race on my phone and the hotel TV when I got back home. But I was there for the women's race at the side of the road. I was on the final corner. I was walking around part of the route. Again, I was there with Zwift, my little pop-up there, and I went for a wonder. And firstly, the atmosphere there was bonkers. I mean, well done to Montreal and to everybody that made the effort to go and watch.

25:24Robyn: It was brilliant. But I was on that final corner, and you'll point on... So I was... That final descent they did through the Flamme Rouge and then right up, it was a horrible drag to the line. It was 500 metres, wasn't it, to the line. You could just see the finish line. I was on that corner, filming them as they went up. And basically you had Cassia and Demi sprinting it out with Elisa just behind. And then in the same, they were all in the same finish rate. And then you had Marlon, so they're all in the line, groveling up this horrible drag with a slight headwind to the finish, with all this cheering going on.

25:56Robyn: And the helicopter overhead, there's all of the monuments and the grand tours have their own clear identity, and they have their own essence, and something that hits you in a different way culturally. culturally, but the world, regardless of where it ends up, has something that remains the same. And there's nothing quite like the World Championships, but it really was, I got like hairs on the back of my neck, but it was just brilliant. But yeah, the racing was so close. And like you, I thought when Demi went for the first time, was it 30k to go? Something like that, roughly, wasn't it? Yeah, it was like almost a lap too far out.

26:31Like it was surprising that she went from that far. Yeah, it was about 30k.

26:34Robyn: It was something like that, wasn't it? which is about two laps or a lap and a half or whatever it was, wasn't it? But I thought, okay, this could be it. But when she was brought back, then there was the counterattacks. It did surprise me, but Cassia... Well, everybody just gave it absolutely everything. You know, Cassia's been on the podium in the Worlds before. And I did think at one point she might actually pull it off, but Demi's such a fierce campaigner. And as we know, there is this respect between those two riders, but they are very, very different. They're very different characters as well.

27:05Robyn: They're different, fiercely independent individuals. That's what we want in sport. It is nice when riders are friendly, but they are fiercely competitive and respectful of each other. But I do like the contrasting personalities, going head-to-head. It was a fair sprint, wasn't it? And we didn't really know to the last 50 metres until Demi just punched through and Cassia just didn't have anything left. It was just brilliant. And also, the faces of everybody on the podium, Elisa, clearly, she could have done no more. and there was no I think in the women's race maybe apart from Marlon I think everybody played a reasonable tactical game they did what they could the men's completely different I mean you look at like van der Poel's delighted with second unexpected Brandon not really knowing what the hell had happened and Mathieu van der Poel looking like this yeah it was just the three but in the women's podium look at the faces everybody's I know Cashew was disappointed but she was beaten fair and square she didn't screw up no she didn't screw up she can't look back and think I didn't give it everything like you said she absolutely gave her all at least the same but they were just by when you do a fake smile you use different muscles on your face and you can completely tell when somebody's faking a smile all the smiles on the podium were real doesn't reach their eyes when it's fake that's it the whole face is engaged when you smile naturally and although A big fan of Mathieu, that wasn't a real smile on his face.

28:36Robyn: He was like, shit. Yeah. Damn it. No, two different races, two brilliant races, two contrasting races, but both mightily entertaining in their own right. But just to tackle your in Lombardia question, because I do quite a lot of work for RCS. We've been talking about it for a long time behind the scenes. It took a couple of years for Milan or Sanremo to come into fruition. but I think there's two questions here. Should the women's races, I mean, we've seen the pattern because there's four now, isn't there? We've got four monuments for the women and they're the same as the men's. Calling a new race a monument, I think is very, very hard.

29:16Robyn: But I think it's very legitimate that if there are new races that we could have that the women could call, the women's cycling could call their own and then grow it into a monument or do you just, is it just Lombardia that we have as a monument? And I think, given the fact we've got the four, it's the latter. I think it should be one. And I know they are working really hard behind the scenes, but I don't think they would do it half-heartedly. And there's a little bit of controversy around in Lombardia where, was it Paul Sexass was asked to, I think the mayor asked to take a photo with him or something, and it's a mayor who's pretty anti-cycling apparently.

29:52Oh, really?

29:54Robyn: So yeah, or has had his issues with like, yeah, and then wanted a bit of reflective glory on the day, but then isn't particularly a big fan of cycling. But no, I personally think there should be one. It fits the pattern. And also, it redresses, it just redresses a lot of, I don't think we've even, we've never ever had a little Lombardira of women because there was, we've never had even like one that everybody's forgotten about in the 80s. There's never ever been one. But yeah, I think the only other one that you could grow into a monument, which I would definitely sign the petition, is Strada Bianca.

30:28Strada Bianca. I felt you were going to say that, yeah.

30:31Robyn: But again, I think that's quite easy, isn't it? That's not the most, yeah, that's quite a predictable thing to say perhaps. But yeah, let's see. But I don't know whether it's going to happen as quickly as 2027. But by 2028, it will be nice to have it on board. A lovely way to wrap up the women's season as well as the men's as well. So let's see. But yeah, 100 % behind it. But I do think it might be quite difficult to actually set up a race which carries the status and the history. although I do I am behind an argument that we should start a new race but then the sixth monument doesn't feel right either you know it's and also these monuments although they are recognised as monuments it's only through just the way they've been built I don't even know when the first mention of them being called monuments was because they didn't they weren't created as part of a monument system they just evolved because they're all very different in age as well you've got Lombardy which is 120 years old you know is it um the age is even older isn't it you know the old lady yeah yeah but i think it was i because i think i looked at that maybe probably towards you know the classic season this year and i think it was one sort of almost throwaway mention and in like a french newspaper or something that said uh monument and it's just it's they're so they almost defy categorization but they have categorization, but no one can almost agree on said categorization.

31:58Robyn: Exactly, exactly. Yeah, they've just fallen into this category, haven't they? But they're obviously here to stay. I think it will happen, it's just when. There's definitely the desire there. But I know that Como has agreed with RCS to host the finish of Lombardy for the next two or three years. Three years, yeah. Yeah, three years, that's it, yeah. historically it's bounced between Como and Bergamo hasn't it and we've had a couple of other locations as well but like going back quite a long time but it's going to stick there and I think there's it's just getting over that because it's a busy sassy you know what not Como's like I assume you've been but it's I've never been no I'd love to yeah you should get yourself down there it's a it's a great race to go and do you could do the go and see Gran Pimonte and then drive a couple of hours and head to Como it's um it's just a lovely part of the world generally the temperature's nice honestly it's just I couldn't recommend it enough but um yeah it's closing I mean it shouldn't be it shouldn't be a question but it is um like closing uh coma for another day or for the you know because it's we're doing Milan San Remo on the same day aren't we it's just do they do something similar for that race so obviously a shorter route with the same finishing circuit it could work and and there would be little to no added disruption using the same infrastructure but then you could argue, which is a legitimate argument, that the women have the race on their own day, on the Sunday.

33:22Robyn: There's a sportif on the Sunday, I believe, and like Paris-Roubaix was before it moved back to the same day and got no coverage, which is another subject. But let's see how it unfurls. But a lot of it is down to money, politics. As is the world, really. As is the world. Everything, actually. So including Il Lombardia for women. Yeah, including that, yeah.

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35:25In terms of 2026, what have been your best moments to witness or commentate on? Just what really sticks in the mind?

35:34Robyn: I've tried a couple down, but I think they're the ones that everybody, I would imagine has got pretty close to their hearts. Firstly, and somebody asked me this the other day, the standout moment of the year, really, in terms of excitement, was Melan San Remo. The men's race, Tom versus Tade versus Van der Poel. Just that last 20 minutes. And I know, I think Melan San Remo is a race for the real connoisseurs. And I don't mean to sound elitist, but it's for, because it isn't exciting all day long. And let's be honest, Melan San Remo, for the vast majority of the day, go out, do some bird watching, go the hoovering, take some stuff down to the tip, come back, and it's still one rider on the front, isn't it?

36:16Robyn: Still Sylvain Delia on the front, for example. Bless him, doing a five-hour shift, a four-and-a-half, five-hour shift. But the thing I like about Milan San Remo is that waiting, is that conservation of energy, is the really nuanced part of cycling that is very difficult to talk about and understand. And you've got all of these 180-year-old riders or the particular job, but all trying to conserve, conserve, conserve as the day just ticks on, as the sun goes across the sky and you get ever nearer this last 25km of racing where they know it's going to be like an on-off moment, literally, bang. Well, a little bit, the speed obviously builds up, but there's nothing quite like that final 20km.

36:59Robyn: And we know there are only a couple of places where the race can be opened up or possibly opened up. And because of that, it makes those places even more intense and even more of a focus. So I think there's just, it's a race with this kind of sleepy nature, almost though you want to doze off, but that is part of the story. That is what allows the contrast of the explosivity, the excitement, the unpredictability at the end. And so you are, as a spectator, as a fan, as a commentator, you run the gamut of experiences from almost nodding off to being on the litter on the edge you see jumping up and down and so it's the graph it's like from there to there everything so that's what I like about it it's a work of art that race and this addition with Tellez ripping it up early going away with Van der Poel and then attacking and attacking again and then cracking and then leaving him with Tom it was a tight sprint in the end wasn't it we didn't know till the last 50 metres who was going to win it it was just brilliant i just loved everything about it i i think i was i was commentating on it yeah i was just thinking back because i you know when you feel so i do quite a lot of races and i can't remember if i had a day off or i think i was in the studio i think i can't remember i think i'll have to check on my diary but um because it's such a great race and this is what is interesting about my job sometimes i'm so invested in a race i can't remember whether I'm talking about it or whether it's an inner monologue or whether I'm just watching it on the telly because I love it that much and occasionally I'm talking about it and occasionally I'm just watching it like you guys at home and and they bleed together and I think because Milan San Remo was such an experience my work as a commentator and my joy as a fan fused together leaving me in a position now where I can't quite tell you whether I what role I had I think I was there I was there maybe I was there in spirit it's all the same it's all the same So that was my highlight.

39:03Robyn: That was my highlight of the year. And then, and the next obvious one is Wout winning Paris-Roubaix. That was a great race, wasn't it? That was just wonderful. Yeah. Again, because he's such a popular figure. And again, he's had a different career path, hasn't he? And I was commentating on this one. And I was in the studio with Orla and Adam and Sean. And one of the things we said at the end was, once we dissected the tactics of the race and today's efforts to try and win the fifth monument. It was more that the world felt, we live in complicated, challenging times, don't we? But the world, for a brief moment, when Wout won, felt like it'd right as itself just for a few moments.

39:45Robyn: So it was just like, yeah, it felt right that Wout has now won the Paris-Roubaix and is a Paris-Roubaix champion. So maybe for different reasons. And being on site as well, my third big takeaway was Kassia. winning on Vontu. And I was up there working for Eurosport TNT as a reporter, so not commentating, but doing the start and finish interviews. And I've done that for the last five editions of the race. And that was just brilliant. And Cassie, I classed her as a friend of mine as well as somebody that I report on and interview. And that was brilliant. Just the way she... I mean, it was not just her strength, it was her tactical prowess.

40:28Robyn: And when she went, knowing that there would be a bit of a stalemate between the two. Because when you look at the riders that were there, you could say, well, why don't one of them just follow? But she knew that given the fragility of the cooperation that you get quite often. I think women's racing is just brilliant on its own, but I think there's a more brittle... A lot of the lads in the men's racing get on a lot more, and I think the relationships in women's racing are a bit more fractious, a bit tenser. And I think we see that reflects in quite a lot the standoff tactics we get and I think that's brilliant and we saw that on the road there but Cassian knew that it potentially could happen so attacked at a certain point and they kept bringing her back and then dropping off because they got to within seven seconds didn't they?

41:13Robyn: before it went out and then to over a minute and then coming back at the end and it was just fantastic so I think that was the bit the hair standing up on my neck and driving up and seeing the fans and seeing her win that one although she ultimately lost the race Demi was by far the strongest. There's not much more than she could do. And Kashi doesn't win much either, does she? We know, relatively speaking, she's a great champion. But when she wins, she wins big. And it hits harder, doesn't it? So that was brilliant. That's my other big standout moment of the year. Being on the race, feeling the vibes and seeing that win.

41:47Yeah, all three, I think, also gave me some goosebumps as well. Because as you say, it's like you have to allow it almost to build to that crescendo. and then you get all the all the feelings that come with it and oh it's just incredible i love that race totally totally me too and well we're talking on the day of giulio cicconi has just announced his transfer from from one of the teams little trek who's incredibly busy on the transfer market to another in pinarello q36.5 pro cycling i almost i always want to say q35.6 and i'm like

42:25Robyn: that's not right don't confuse me because if you start saying that i'm going to say it wrong

42:32and do you would you class their signing potentially as the best one so far this

42:37Robyn: year or do you have another one in mind no i when you uh pop up the question that you you can ask ask me um i was thinking well what other transfers have made me think oh and and there aren't a lot a lot of them are more riders going to a team to build around a particular leader there's been no talismanic kind of signings. And I wouldn't put Ciccone in the talismanic bracket, but he is one of the big riders out there. And clearly he's had one of his most, if not winningest, but most consistent seasons. And it is a real potent force. And for whatever reason, and I don't want to speculate, and I don't actually know, so I don't want to go into, like Little Trek is fundamentally changing as a team, in terms of the riders, in terms of the staff.

43:17Robyn: Stephen de Jong has also left. So clearly the team are rebuilding the staff, potentially its culture a little bit as well has shifted since the management changes. We've got Andy Schleck at the helm now, who's obviously doing a really good job. But I think, yeah, that is probably the most significant move. And it's his three-year deal he's gone to? Yeah, three years, yeah. But I think the only thing about that's going to leave Lidl with is who is their big grand tour potential winner now. You've got Ayuso there still. I mean, not that Ciccone was in that role anyway. I think it was only this year that he finally said, I'm going to the Vuelta before stage wins.

43:59Robyn: Because he fell in that bracket of... He bleeded between categories almost. Yeah, just bounced between and there was glimpses of all. He could do this and then no. So I think Ciccone going to pin another to Q36.5, it's not surprising because it's been rumoured, but now it's official. I think it's a good move. I think him and Tom, Tom having a legitimate foil at the back end of one of these big races would really open the door even like a Milan San Remo I mean Ciccone's got a real punch and he's got that staying power we know how quick Remco is and we know how obviously that European Championships loss still sticks in the throat for Ciccone but he's a rider you could argue is at the peak of his powers and he's just got better and better every season so he will be a wonderful foil I think and I think Q36.5 as well at the moment they're a team built around one rider around Tom but the signings they've got and they're building out they're not just building up they're building out the team so they can win across I mean they feel now like a world tour team don't they and I think no doubt in the next so it's not next year it's the year after isn't it I think or that the world tour changes again I think they'll automatically take the step up but they're clearly building a bit of a medium to long-term future.

45:15Robyn: And I think Ciccone is a great signing and will really help Tom out. And help Ciccone out. He'll be a big, he'll be not an out-and-out leader, but he'll be a co-leader with Tom. And also, it might take the pressure off Tom a little bit. So Tom can go and do his thing, Ciccone can do his. And then for some of the races, they can combine to really give each other options. You know, because Ciccone at the back end of a lot of races for Lidl, it was just him. And then Tom's generally on his own. But I think they're quite similar riders. So if they could combine, they could be a real potent force, which could cause a few issues in the classics next year, which is great.

45:52I would agree with you there. I was also wondering, it's interesting with the relegation and promotion system. I know Picnic got a one-year license subject to, I think it was meeting financial criteria that had been set out. and I know that there's been discussions about whether they actually go step down to protein level and I think that the likelihood is then they would continue as 17 world tour teams but I was wondering Pinarello do feel like they could easily fill that gap but I feel like they probably wouldn't promote a team midway through the promotion and relegation cycle or maybe they would yeah

46:34Robyn: if that is the case I didn't realise that Pitnick could step down a year early yeah I don't know I don't think they'd bend or break the rules because with if Pitnick did that and there were 17 World Tour teams automatically given the system with the pro teams is that they would just fill them with pro teams wouldn't they and Pinarello would be the next best ranked so they're going to get picked for all the Grand Tours now anyway I think or they would if that happened but yeah in all but name really yeah Pinarello Q36.5 feel like a world tour team and they're clearly heading in that direction I am right, it is 2028 where you'll get the new round just making sure but yeah they've had a really challenging year and their roster is quite depleted, there's a lot of very talented young riders there but they don't have a lot of heft and they don't seem to be making an impact in the racing that they used to and I think it's because they just don't have the depth and strength to fight out the big in the big in the big world tour races and clearly they and when some of the lineups you look at and i say this with the utmost of respect they're quite unfamiliar names names a lot of the time younger riders coming through who are still learning their craft or riders who may be at the tail end of their career so um the structure is slightly weak i think and they and i've no doubt they would concede that otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation about them possibly stepping down and taking a couple of years to to reconfigure and reform and look at different objectives and find out what their identity is, if you know what I mean.

48:08Robyn: Because most teams have a kind of clear identity. Some are more vague than others, but I do think they need to have a little look. Because they're a team that everybody was looking to for a while in terms of their infrastructure. They had these under-23 campus and a really ambitious team looking at taking young riders through from the junior ranks and then straight through to the World Tour and looking after them long term. and yeah, it's certainly not fallen apart, but it's been, I think it's fair to say, probably the worst year of their existence and that's not, I think that's just a fair statement, isn't it?

48:38Robyn: But yeah, hopefully they can turn things around. And in terms of questions about Matt Stevens himself, I always kind of, I do wonder this question, so obviously you used to be a former cyclist. Who do you see now that you see yourself most in, in the peloton? Bloody hell, blimey, that's a big question. I mean, gosh. God. Do you know what, Robin? I wouldn't really... Because my tenure at the good level was only quite short. I kind of wish it had been longer. But I was pretty decent all round. I couldn't really sprint, but I could climb really well. And the harder the race got, the better I got.

49:18Robyn: I didn't necessarily go any quicker. I just didn't go any slower. So to compare... I don't really want to compare myself. I don't mind. I don't want to compare myself to anybody else. No, that's fine. but I was the type of rider I was good there's a few races performances and the level I got to British champion rode the Olympics and top 10 in the world in Colombia the races that I'm very proud of I was capable the harder the race the more capable I was not necessarily high mountains but I used to like the world for example I never rode in Lombardia but that was the sort of race I could have done well in.

49:57Robyn: But just the harder, the longer, the better. So, and I would just generally just kind of creep away. I suppose you could look at, you know, like the way Balcombe used to win races. Like, always there or thereabouts, and we didn't win a lot, but won quite big. It's really hard to get rid of. And then you'd be in a break, and the next thing, he's 15 seconds up the road. So how did that happen? That's kind of what I was like a little bit. I wasn't this super quick, dynamic rider, but I just could suffer and I was quite tenacious. And the more tired people got, I could find something more. And I was at home when everybody was screwed, basically.

50:36Robyn: That's when I could start taking chunks out of people was when everybody was on the deck. So I was just a survivor. I was a survivor. Yeah, I was a survivor and took my chances. So I have ended up comparing myself to Bulkamolima, which is quite funny, isn't it? But there we go. I think he would also take that as a compliment yeah I know Ryder's now retired as well I know yeah it's a little bit stressful that Ryder's I grew up enjoying watching and now retiring I feel like I'm entering that space now and I'm like oh this is how it must have felt for other people well it's when you see the likes of Tadei heading towards nearly 30 you know and like wow are maturing to their 30s but we've got sex I said we had 20, just 20.

51:25Robyn: We can't not talk about him, yeah. Sex has in Lombardia, blimey. What a year, but that lad's a talent, isn't he? I just hope, I can go on the record, I hope he stays with the Cathalon CMA CGM. I really do. So when his contract runs out, like after that, like an extension or for this next year? Yeah, I hope he's, because there's rumours that I know that there are some teams that want to buy him out. So it's not, although he's got a contract through 2027, I just hope he stays long-term. I hope they can find their finances because he might end up being one of the highest paid, well, he will be one of the highest paid riders in the world, understandably.

51:58Robyn: But I just, if that team is the right place for him to go, he should stay. I don't mean that like arbitrarily, he's got to stay there. It's like, well, clearly they've given him, I don't want him, I wouldn't want him to move to a super team necessarily. Yeah. Or a team that, like, a little track would work because he'd be the out-and-out leader. But if you went to UEE, it might be more complicated for example they've got quite a lot of leaders as it is but I kind of the traditional part of my cycling brain would like to see maybe slightly selfishly and I'm probably aligned with a lot of French people or just see a Frenchman in a French team winning the Tour I think it would redress the balance wouldn't it and also be good for French cycling as well which are in need of a true champion I mean, they've got some really solid riders at the moment, but a rider to take on the mantle of a potential Tour winner, we are seeing it in Sex, aren't we?

52:58Robyn: So part of me, yeah, wants him to stay there in a French team, and I'm sure they'll look after him. They've looked after him thus far, haven't they? And he seems to be, they've allowed him to ride the Tour, which was quite controversial at the time, wasn't it? You know, 19-year-old riding the Tour, ends up fourth, and now he's won a monument. and again, aside from Tadej, but the way he took that race apart in Lombardia was impressive, wasn't it? It was mightily impressive indeed. And it probably makes him feel better after he was so angry at himself for the world's performance. Bless him. Yeah, that was brutal.

53:36I'm not going to lie, it was a bit concerning.

53:40Robyn: Yeah, I totally agree. When I read the quote, I was like, oh mate, you don't want to be that harsh on yourself. But what it does tell us, firstly, he's a kid still. He is a young man. He's riding like a monster at the moment. But we're seeing more and more of that. That's becoming common that young riders are not fully developed, but they're unlocking this potential a lot earlier for multiple reasons. But that doesn't happen to your brain. You've only been around for 19 full years. You're still a very young man, teenager essentially, just a couple of weeks ago. I think he was unfair in himself.

54:16Robyn: But what it does tell us about him as an individual, he does have the DNA of a champion. Champions are very, very self-critical and they will do a lot more than everybody else. There's stories of him in the training camps when there's really, really bad weather earlier in the year. All the riders say, no, we're not going out in the snow or the rain and he'd just go out on his own. So he has set himself apart already and he is self-critical. But to come back after the world, train, because a lot of riders have just been doing recovery rides after the Worlds and just ticking over because of how hard the season has been.

54:49Robyn: But he, I mean, we're talking about a two-week window between a disappointment of the Worlds and Lombardy and then saying that I went out and I trained hard to make sure that didn't happen again. And he's done what he's done. We are dealing with a serious customer here, aren't we? Yes.

55:05And to get back to yourself as well, in terms of transitioning from cyclist into commentator into podcaster into you have your hand in a lot your head in a lot of different hats or whatever the expression is what is that

55:19Robyn: expression we're different we're a lot of hats or you could say i've got my head inside a lot of different hats but that would be quite an unorthodox way of saying the same thing yeah how how was that sort of going from transitioning into that because it's easy to talk about something but it's hard to almost get the balance right I imagine yeah it's it's a question I do get asked quite often and I do like talking about it really but I think um it's not just the transition from being a rider into a commentator I mean I was a pro back in the 90s so just put in a bit of context and I'm sure you know this but just for the listener the viewer who might not know I rode through the 90s as a very good amateur um went to live in France when I was 20 for three years for an amateur team with an objective and ambition to turn pro.

56:09Robyn: That didn't happen in the early part of the 90s, so I didn't turn pro properly. So I won the British Championships when I was 28, the Elite Championships, and I was working full-time at Marks & Spencer's at the time. So I needed to pay the bills and have somewhere to live, but knew that I could balance the two and race the best rider in the UK at that time. I was actually working full-time. managed to turn pro but it only lasted a couple of years then I was a police officer from 2001 to 2013 and I still rode my bike then I took a half a year off racing and then joined the Sigma Sports shock team that developed into a UCI team which I rode for and managed so we rode the Britten and stuff and had a nice program so I really enjoyed that so I was a police officer full time and then I rode for and managed a UCI team at the back end of the noughties, which was a lot of fun.

57:01Robyn: And then I came to a natural end of my racing career. I was quite a road for a long time until I was 41. And a crash ended abruptly, but I was going to roughly kind of quit then anyway. And then during this time I was in the police. And that I think is where I'm able to answer your question. It's just having a love of cycling, not knowing I was going to ever do what I'm doing now, then joining the police and learning to communicate. So the job that I did in the police was in the final six years, that was where it was fundamentally different was when I was in, I worked in domestic violence and child protection.

57:36So, and historical

57:37Robyn: allegations of sex abuse. So that's what I dealt with. And so within that, you have to, well, as a police officer anyway, so I'm very good at it, quite a lot, very bad. But yeah, learning how to get trust is massively important against, with some of the most vulnerable people in society. So you have to be able to communicate. And that's where I really found that I could communicate pretty well. And then the flip side of interviewing vulnerable people, firstly, making sure that they're looked after, showing empathy. The flip side is I was interviewing all the alleged offenders and prosecuting them as well, taking them to court and getting justice for people.

58:18Robyn: And that's quite complex. There's a lot to that. So you have to use, it's cerebrally enormously challenging to do all of that, but rewarding because you can, from time to time, get outcomes that are really positive for people within the justice system and also changing people's lives and getting them out of very difficult situations. So when I came to the end of my career there, I was coming towards the end of the career, the moving into cycling and speaking on TV and interviewing people, which is what I love the most. I love commentating, but I love the art of the interview or whatever, the art of conversation.

58:56Robyn: That is where I think I learned a lot of that from interviewing hundreds and hundreds of people in various different scenarios and also dealing with a variety of different situations and having to communicate to get the best outcome rather than fighting somebody. So it would be in very dynamic, dangerous situations or situations that if they weren't necessarily dangerous, if you didn't get it right you could change the outcome of somebody's life including your own that's when you really understand and you find how to communicate so now doing this I'm able to just do that in a slightly different way but I think that's why I'm reasonably good at interviewing people and having conversations but I think I learned that through or it was honed should I say in the police and we got my love of cycling talking to people for a living essentially and solving problems and then ultimately leaving that career behind and then now i've got this innate love of cycling and an ability which you know isn't the finished article we all we all learn till the day we die but um i think it's that period of time that's enabled me to um be a reasonable communicator and an interest in the arts and stuff like that as well books and music films and interesting culture gives you something else to to sort of delve into and come out of and so there's a kind of rich language to which you're able to draw from when you're talking about sports so I think that's that's where that's where I am now anyway.

1:00:24I did wanted to touch on that as well because on your Instagram for people who don't know you'll typically post art inspired photos with a similar caption and I wanted to ask where does that does that come from I mean, you're just sort of a student of the arts.

1:00:43Robyn: So I do like having a laugh and not taking myself too seriously, but I do have a love of the arts. A relatively recent one, really, in terms of I do collect art. I read a lot about art, go to galleries and stuff, and it's a massively important part of my life, as it is other people, as is music. But those photos came about, I was doing a lot of hairdryer reviews, which I think you were around when I was, yeah, you definitely were. I think I bumped into you and I might have done one a couple of hours before. So I did the hairdryer reviews in hotel rooms and then I basically ran out of hairdryers because they're all the same and I thought I need to mix it up a little bit.

1:01:18Robyn: And then some of the idiosyncratic hotel rooms that we go to or that I visit with Sigma on the tour on the Jura or whatever, some of the rooms are quite interesting. But the first thing I do is I look at the room and then come up with, oh, this could look nice. So it's the first thing I do. and I get my wheelie case, play with the lights, come up with something that could be quite unusual and then put the camera with a nice lens outwards on a 10 second timer and take a series of shots, have a look at one that might work, run it through a couple of filters, play with the lighting and then I'll sit, I'll generally get a glass of wine, sit in a cafe somewhere and then come up with a random kind of story behind it which is very free, this sounds really pretentious but basically I look at it and think I want to come up with something really strange and obtuse but also gently within the you know when you see quite pretentious interpretations of pictures so I love galleries and stuff but sometimes I find them a little bit pretentious I'll be honest with you and and I think that's the problem with art is that it can be so pretentious that actually people don't want to get involved because the language spoken yeah but I quite I lean because I love comedy as well, so I just gently lean into that language and just play with it.

1:02:34Robyn: So that's what I generally do. I absolutely love it. So the photos are fun, and also it's showcased in some of the bizarre rooms. And the room that I was in the other day, I took the latest photo of me on a lozenge on the bed. There was a lozenge on the floor. I thought, that's weird. And then there was a frieze of a statue. It was a B &B hotel, one of these French company, B &B hotels. So it was quite a sterile hotel room, But that and that weird freeze of a statue, I thought, oh, I can do something like this. And then I'm a big fan of Kate Bush. So I've got an image of her and I like her looking at me, looking at the statue.

1:03:09Robyn: And then I thought, let's play with that. And that was it. So first and foremost, I like weird photos and I like having a little bit of fun with the text. None of them are serious, but the stories are kind of, yeah, they're freestyle and just fun. And I like them. And people seem to like them as well. So that's the story behind those. They morphed out of the hairdryers into something a little bit more still life. Have you ever had that moment where you have discovered your favourite art painting? Like you're in a gallery and you just go, oh, that's the one. That's the one I really like. And it just sort of stays with you.

1:03:46Robyn: Yeah, I think there's a lot of paintings that I like. And I wouldn't want to choose my favourite. but I think one of the most impactive paintings is in the National Gallery. It's enormous. It's very famous. The first time I saw it, I don't mind saying this, it moved me to tears. And it's the death of Lady Jane Grey. I can't even tell you the artist. But it's the death of Lady Jane Grey where you've got her in the centre of the picture, blindfolded, fumbling around, and there's the block where she's going to be beheaded on. Then you've got the executioner with his sword looking quite sombre. and you've got a priest behind her gently trying to help her find her place and you've got her, I think there's two ladies in waiting just behind in tears.

1:04:28Robyn: And it's just, it's just the power that is rendered through that image of the last moments of, she was 16 at the time she was beheaded. Can you imagine the fear but also the grace with which she meets her final moments. It's fucking wild. And that, so that's the picture that hit me in the feels the most. There's others that do similar but that's the one that If I had to pick one, that would be it. When I saw that photo and I was sort of looking at the details, it's the nature of the executioner. And you can tell that he does not want to do this at all. It just ties it all together. And I stood there and I was taking this in and I thought, oh my God, this is wonderful.

1:05:08This is art. This is what it means almost. This is it. I get it. I understand it now.

1:05:15Robyn: Yeah, I think I'm reading a biography of Francis Bacon about a very different sort of artist and so that that piece of art there was it's in a very classic art where there's a clear story to be told um obviously something that happened in history and generally if you go back another couple hundred years generally most of art was basically painted to tell a story generally biblical tales or or urban or sort of legends basically but as you as you move through to the back of the um the 1900s sorry the 1800s things sort of changed you get more abstract work so the work of like turner and matisse and people like that where they were basically subverting traditional views on art where art became more impensable and then you moved into like picasso and stuff like that like art is a form as is music where if you could write it down in words, you'd write it down in words.

1:06:11Robyn: So there are pictures that clearly tell a story that could be conveyed in words, although art, a painting could be more powerful. But then some abstract works hit equally as hard, but cannot be explained and transmit something that can't be conveyed with words. So abstract art can do something different. And Bacon famously said that if I could say it, why would I paint it? And refuses to explain any of his work. He's explained a little bit of it, but will just let people interpret his art in the way they want to without giving any answers. And obviously he never will because he passed away 34 years ago.

1:06:47Robyn: But that's also the power of art as well is the abstract nature of art. Art exists as marks on a board or marks on paper in its most human form that are left for us to kind of interpret whatever way we want to. And quite often art is there because words can't do what art does. that's the way I look at it that's beautiful oh I almost don't want to wrap up this interview because I love talking to you quite frankly but my final question for you and you know we're always sort of growing and evolving much like the hairdryer chronicles but is there sort of an avenue that you would like to explore maybe you don't know what that is yet you just have a vague area that you think oh and that's interesting but if there's yeah another another chapter for Matt Stevens what do you think that that would look like I've often at the moment I'm I'm really really busy with motorcycling stuff and you can probably tell by these little forays into music and art that that I'd like to do something around art I think or music I don't know what that might look like but there's a few brands companies that I'm working with um that you might see some interesting stuff in the coming months, maybe probably into next year, where there is a tiny cycling element, but most of it is to do with the artistic side of things.

1:08:12Robyn: So I think I'd like to do more conversation-led pieces, like my cafe ride, for example, but nothing to do with cycling. So move out of cycling. I mean, I still love cycling and always do in that. But as I get a little bit older, I am having thoughts about doing something slightly different but not replacing i mean cycling will be i hope if people keep employing me be a constant but i definitely like to do something else outside of cycling what that looks like yeah i don't know but i think it will be something within the arts within music film and yeah and painting stuff like that so not me actually but like maybe exploring how important art is in general and why it should be protected and um i don't like it when the arts are cut wanting to get politically because without art, without love and stuff like that, without the emotions what is it to be human?

1:09:02Robyn: We have to question why we're here and art, you work and then generally we'll all go and buy a record we'll all stick on Netflix and watch a movie that makes us scared or happy terrified or it creates an emotional impact and artists are there to basically that's what fundamentally human is being, it is to create art for people not everybody can be an artist I think we all could but you have artists and then you have the rest of us you know who seek out stuff to to stimulate us and that is ultimately what it is to be human so I think I want to do something like that oh well what a point to end on everyone watch this space that sounds absolutely brilliant I can't wait to see it might take a year or two yeah but it's definitely that's where I that's where things are leading I think but um yeah but But most of the time you'll still hear me talking about what we all love and that's bike racing.

1:09:54Robyn: That's my constant. But yeah, I'll definitely be wandering off into the woods to try and find something new as well. Oh, wonderful. Well, thank you so much for your time today. My pleasure. My pleasure. Thanks for having me on. Have a lovely time in Ibiza, partying it up. Yeah, it should be fun. Yeah, it's always a good laugh. It's a cracking few days and I get to ride my bike and the weather looks good. So thank you. Thanks very much, Robin. What an interview, I have to say, which I've definitely listened to all the way through as we discuss this. I'm sure anyone that has feedback for the podcast or wants to suggest questions for future interviews, suggest guests maybe, you can get in touch.

1:10:40Our emails are on the website. Very easy to guess. Once you know one, you know them all. So Robin is very active on social media and she will see your messages. to make them nice. But all feedback's welcome, unless it's not nice. Robin, I gave you, to sort of round off the conversation, I gave you a couple of things to prepare to sort of tie a bow in a very Christmassy, Halloween-y way on 2026 and look forward to next year's season, even though we're not quite there yet. The first question was, I'm sure you've got a really good answer prepared, what was your favourite race of 2026? Well, I mean, first off, when Will says he gave me time to prepare, he always throws the question at me five minutes before we record and then I start like panicking.

1:11:24But I would say my favourite race this year was the Port de France Femme. I think the amount of times that Maia Jean changed hands, I think we got a very credible challenge from Cassia Nuiadema Finney instead of, you know, because we're so used to Debbie Vollering being an actual powerhouse it was kind of crazy that she wasn't just allowed to kind of run away with it almost so I would say the Tour de France fam what is yours William? So I've got I've got one one for men and kind of two for women as cheating so I'm gonna I'm gonna need some help deciding so men's race actually looking back on it my favorite men's race of the year was the UAE tour because of that crazy new climb which just made it absolutely insane Del Toro got dropped right at the start and you're like oh my god is Antonio Tiberi actually good and then everything changed and it was it was very dramatic and it lasted quite a long time it was very steep and I think that stage in particular was good but we have to give a shout out to Enric Maas don't we for winning Love World Tour because yeah that's great I'll always give a shout out to emirate mass yeah yeah exactly and then my two women's races i picked i couldn't pick between giro and the vuelta yeah you just had to go different with it and not pick the tour is good but the giro was absolutely insane last day just completely turned around finestra was good i think the giro would get it if they didn't have to cut that on short i feel like there was some more drama to be had and then the women's voilter kind of looked like vanderboden had sewn up paula blasi came from no and then the last stage on the end it was just like oh my god here's paula blasi paula blasi's music exactly so the drama of that was really good it probably was the tour but would just add those in just for extra boost which should be good next year um which the the Blasi thing leads us very nicely onto my next question, which was, what's your favorite transfer?

1:13:34And I have, again, I've got a few that I'll need to whittle down. What's your favorite transfer? Looking forward to next year. Okay, wait. So like you, I have a few that I find really interesting. I think Cassia to Little Trek is an interesting one because I feel like she had the support at Canyon. she had the ability to get on the podium of like the Tour de France fam and now it's just like oh it's a new environment everything's different she won't really need much time to settle in you know she's not new to this but I'm just like oh I wonder how that's gonna go and then another one relating to Little Trek is Giulio Ciccone I think it's good that you stepped away from Little Trek I think it's getting far too busy over there to go to Pinarello Q3 6.5 pro cycling which I always have to pause it's ridiculous I think it'll work really well with Tom Pidcock um I think it'll be interesting to see so I think a lot of people maybe expect him to sort of lead out Pidcock but you know he's not exactly at like the end of his career like he's still got an explosivity he's still got mountains there's classifications in him people write him out I think and then my last one is Paula Blassie to Movistar I'm really looking forward to see how that one goes Home Rider on a home team she's got Maldon Royce yeah I didn't think Royce would like that transfer well I feel like Royce maybe said the other day she was like oh yeah well you know I'm going to retire so there you go Paula Blassie came over she's like I'm not having this yeah I also like a free Paolo Blasi.

1:15:15I'm getting my predictions in early that she's going to win the Tour de France next year. Because she probably should have done it this year, but she got kind of sidelined. Chikone was one on my list. I think that is a really good move for both him and Pinarello. I think that's really, and I'd also put a lot of money on him winning polka dots next year. The route's kind of tailored for it and not Pogaccio to win that. So there you go, Giulio. Take that one home. I'm sure Pinarello would be very pleased to see that happen. let me just go I've got a long list actually so we've got Julio off the list I've got that I'm now looking at another tab of incognito window to find who I've written down okay I'm going to make each one of these really quick because I've got maybe like 10 or 12 Jesus you've got like the whole transfer list yeah I've got almost everyone that's moved teams my first one you won't be surprised to know is Ivan Garcia Cortina who's gone from Movistar to Alpsin I think that's that's excellent he's really good in the classics and can be an extra lead up man great rider if you don't know you will know he's excellent exactly and Spanish riders in the classics it just hits different it just really does speaking of next one another Movistar exit Lorenzo Malese going to wait for it Sudau safety jogger get used to that one he was really standout in the Giro for Movistar this year putting some big shifts in and he'll be a big part of Sudau's Safety Joggers Basics team Don't like that name alongside Ben Turner who's leaving Net Company Ineos for Sudal Safety Jogger Is it one of those things where you have to keep repeating it to get it inside your brain?

1:16:57I think everyone's going to struggle not to say Quick Step for at least two years Yeah So hopefully the floor industry picks up a bit and they can come back in as the main sponsor Yeah Ben Turner Free Ben Turner he got really mugged off by Ineos this year so it would be good for him to actually be able to try and win some races, hopefully. A couple more riders that are being hashtag freed. Shirin Van Anroy leaving Little Troik to go to Canyon Sram. Who is leaving Canyon Sram next year? Antonia Niedermeyer, yes. Antonia Niedermeyer, hello. She's good, but outside of that, it's been very much Kashiach-focused for quite a while.

1:17:31Look at the classics. There's always Vollering, Niri Doma. They need something. I don't know how much money they've got. If they've had to get rid of Kashiach, I'm sure neither of them probably wanted that separation if they were just, you know, all happy and all good. But Van Anroy kind of needs some rejuvenation in her career. I feel like she had a tough year or so with injuries and getting out of a very crowded Little Trek team will be good. She was also robbed of the Gravel World Championships a couple of years ago. I'm still not over that. So hopefully she'll get back on the horse. I forgot about that.

1:18:00Yeah, justice for Sheeran. Another one who's been freed, Blanca Vass. She's managed to leave. She's taking Sheeran's place at Little Trek, but she's managed to leave Estiworks. If you look at how many races she's done this year, despite being one of the world's best riders, she's done maybe two races, and I think that's just an absolute travesty. So she will win races, classics, and grand tours for Little Trek. Speaking of another final... Is this a final freedom? This is a final freedom on the list, and it's Fyfer Georgie, who has managed to escape Picnic Pasta now, which, round of applause...

1:18:35Yeah. That is the transfer that everyone wants to make these days away from Picnic. She's gone to UAE and she'll be a really vital cog in their classics team. Teaming up with Laura. Exactly, Laura Gillespie. We've got some, that's just a really strong squad, even though they've lost Blassie. They can win a lot of races next year and I'm sure they will. I think they maybe managed to top the UCI team standings this year somehow. That could be incorrect information. I've got two more on the women's side, two more on the men's side. Let's do the men's first because they're going to the same team. Ineos have been very much talked about on the outgoings, like Ghana going.

1:19:15But I really like the signings of Javier Romo, again, leaving Movistar. Always a good sign. Yeah, he's very good. Underrated, in my opinion. The comment sections on the internet are divided, as you have told me. Yeah, we clearly occupy different sides of that. Because when I was, me and Will were talking about it when it was happening, will was saying oh it was a very positive reaction i was like i was seeing a lot of negativity so clearly i have somehow found myself in like a negative corner of the internet that's brilliant get me out of there yeah so i am hashtag team roma i think he's good i'm also team james shaw who has also gone to inios i think he's great sounding he's been underrated for a long time east midlands represent um not biased i think he's really good we have blasi my last one is Yolanda Neff randomly last minute has signed for Fenix Premier Tech didn't realise her getting back into road racing was on the cars but that is apparently happening she's going to be racing for Fenix next year I don't know how much she'll do but if she does well how many disciplines does she get with Titan is it just mountain bike maybe I don't have time to learn that right now anyway yeah former world champion mountain bike she's a very good bike rider hopefully she does get a chance to go on the road and Neff and Puck will be very strong.

1:20:40Multi-discipline team, maybe. Actually, I've just had a brainwave. So next year, aren't they bringing in this thing where UCI points can come from different disciplines? Yeah. I think they've brought Yolanda in to get some of those points. The more you know. The more you know. The more you know. I think that's it. And she will bring in points for a good rider. Have I missed anyone? No, I think you've got every avenue and every team covered. I think you did well. Will, you did well. I think I must have missed someone. I didn't mention any transfers to the Little Trek team, which there were a lot of.

1:21:16You've probably missed, you know, the other, yeah, the other 10 riders that have signed for Benorello. My last one, which I'm not necessarily like, this is a great signing, but I'm interested, I'm really interested to see if Theo Gagan Hart was just being shackled by Little Trek and if he can find some redemption at EF. Yeah, he's not had the best of times. There was a few... I think that hip injury was just so debilitating. Big time. I think he could have won that Giro as well. He was looking really good until that crash. I think we would all love it if Tao couldn't re-find that form. Big Tao.

1:21:52I said Big Toe. Big Toe, no, I didn't see that. That's ridiculous.

1:22:03Yeah, anyway, on that bombshell, on that picture of Ted Eganhard's big toe I hate that would it be Halloween when this goes out what day is Halloween? no it's the weekend happy Halloween everyone hope you've got your hope you've got your big toe costumes ready for this weekend and enjoy scaring children so wait one sec I watch the Brittany Brodsky podcast right and she's like every week she's been dressing up as like a scary quote unquote costume and she did dress up as a foot last week. Why? Because plantar fasciitis is scary. And I had that for a few years. That's a good point. So people are dressing up as feet and toe related objects.

1:22:48You heard it here a second. That is breaking news. And I'm sure all, maybe half a person listening to this who has heard of Brittany Broski will really appreciate that. I'm going to go watch Brittany Broski now. Bye. Yeah. you go and be Gen Z to all the normal people out there thank you very much for listening hope you enjoyed Robin's excellent and a few of them at Stevens you can check him out everywhere I think he is literally everywhere here there and everywhere ears, eyes, other senses yeah great man he's right behind you that was good Halloween thank you anyway thanks everyone for listening bye bye