Andy Roddick: "Federer Ruined My Life for a Decade"

24:01Jon McLaughlin:When you're in that room, are you like, yeah, these are my people. We are cut from the same cloth. No, no, no, no. I, you know, no, there's no, there's no cut from the same cloth. Like there, there can be hall of famers, but then there's like the people who snuck in on like the sixth ballot and you're all hall of famers. Yeah. But like you're, you didn't get like, you're not like Rivera. You didn't get like a unanimous vote. You know what I'm saying? Like they're a level. So I'm appreciative. I'm proud. I'm full of gratitude. Like it's cool as hell. It's amazing. When you get intro'd, I'd never, I always want to hear it.

24:36It never gets old. And also like, it's not the same as some of the others. So to your point, like when you were playing for the first time, you're playing Rafa for the first time. You're playing, you know, any of those guys, obviously Roger. Yeah. That first game, I'm assuming there's probably some hype coming in. You know about them, obviously. But when you play those kind of guys, and I'm sure people felt this with you, do you go, oh, boy, this is something? Yeah, the difference is like, so Rafa and Roger, we probably played each other. I played Rafa when I was two in the world, and he was like 40.

25:11So he was like 17, right? He had just learned how to tie his shoes or something, right? He was young. So you didn't really know what he was going to be. at that point it was like second round of the open where it's like you point backwards and it looks pretty cool but like that moment for me was like Pete and Andre like Agassi and Sampras I played Andre for the first time it was the first time I'd ever won a match in a tour event and second round I play Andre and so we go out on center court of Miami which is a pretty big event I was like a local wild card I was still in high school no way Yeah.

25:48So I had like gone to class on like a Friday and was playing Andre, like a night session on like a Sunday. And then he runs me out of the building and then my mom made me go to school the next morning. So I went from playing 15 ,000 people against the number one player in the world to like algebra at like 10 a.m. the next day. So it just so happened because we were living in South Florida. She's like, well, I mean, I'm sorry. Like go to school.

26:14Jon McLaughlin:and what was what was the school when you go to school the next day does everyone know about the match there was anybody yeah there was like there was a moment in school because no one else in our school like the normal kids like oh what do you do i'm like oh i'm a tennis player but to them it was like no different than someone saying like i'm a basketball player right yeah oh you probably like put up like 18 last week in the intramural scrimmage you know right so it it changed everything changed my senior year of of high school like i signed a deal with reebok that was announced i played it has just so having a two like pro events i played were like in our backyard like one was in south florida the other one was in miami um yeah so it was it was different and so i had like a good three-month run where i was like actually like people knew i was like a pro pro well you know what i was thinking about is like there was there It was some sweet kid who was in your grade, who was like the number one for the high school team, who really thought like I've got something.

27:13And then it's like, oh, yeah, but Andy's.

27:16Jon McLaughlin:Yeah, he's playing back all the conversations where he's like, yeah, and I play basketball. Have you noticed in your back swing? We're just two athletes. No, there was. So my junior. So we had like this group. So we trained with this group. Basically, everyone that got cut by our national federation all started training together. But we would play at our coaches like apartment courts. No. Right. And so, yeah. And so we had like some good players. Like every guy we trained with was like top 10 in the country, right? Marty Fish came out of that. He was like six in the world. A couple of guys won some doubles titles.

27:46That's like the greatest games no one ever saw. Yeah. But true story, I played one high school match in my life. You ready? No. I was a junior in high school. So I was number one in the country in 16 and unders. And I played three on my high school team that day. How on earth are you playing three? I'll tell you, because I was the third best player in my junior year. Because we had these phenoms at our school. So there was basically this. You guys will like. So we play this team called Cardinal Gibbons, who had these two twins, the Boker twins. But their whole thing was like, we're like 15-time national champs in tennis.

28:25So we had never played a high school tennis match. And it was like we circled these guys. Because in tennis, you don't get defined by high school championships. championships yeah right you like go we were we didn't play high school because we were playing like the junior french open right right right right it just happened to work and we're like we're gonna beat these guys yeah and so we went down there and swept them it was like yeah cute titles which is great you should have that yeah you should have one day where you get to do that yeah and so i love that you got to do that but marty fish played one that day and he was ranked higher than me at the time this guy dave martin played two and i played three our number I think our line five guy that day was like four in the country in junior.

29:07Jon McLaughlin:That's insane. And then we beat Notre Dame, came down to play like a practice match. And our high school kids, we beat them, and they were two in the country at the time. That's amazing. And is it still that way? I mean, down in, was it Tampa, you said? A lot of guys trained at Saddlebrook, yeah. Yeah. That's just like. But we were in South Florida at the time, yeah. so speaking of marty fish you have and i apologize because i know you've told this story a million times but it's just so great like you you have your you're infamous for your serve and that it was a unique situation in that you had like this proprietary serve that your coach you told all your coaches like we don't talk about my serve you can coach me on anything else can you kind to tell the story of how that came to be yeah is so the the aforementioned apartment tennis courts at crystal palms apartment complex they've been now been gilded yeah they've just gilded no one there's no way anyone even knows like there's those loud kids who played their music too loud um marty was you know he was better in juniors before i was good at juniors like on a on a world level so he would he spent a year just beating the crap out of me in practice i was frustrated one day I used to have like, so for people that aren't tennis people, like I would not take my racket down.

30:29I would just take it straight up and jump off, basically jump off of two feet, which is not normal for tennis. So like basically like a half motion and then just try to like explode into it. But I was practicing with Marty and I used to have a more traditional, you know, serve where you would take the racket fully down and you see people bring their foot up and it like looks rhythmic and it looks like it makes sense. It's not this like jerky, you know half-baked thing that i ended up doing but against marty i basically had tapped out in practice i was angry i hit a serve as hard as i could off of two feet and it went in and so then i did it again the next point and it went in and that was my serve really and you know that this

31:10Jon McLaughlin:is like you're breaking all the rules this is not what a serve should be no no no it was i don't know i was like i don't know let's just get to the let's get to the hitting um yeah you know but But it was, yeah, it was completely out of, it was born out of, I had all the greatest coaches when I was a junior and it was born out of frustration. Yeah. Did it do anything weird to your body? Like, cause I know that some of these movements can like, you know, long-term jack something up or did you notice that it changed anything? I don't think it was worse, any worse than it would have been. Like my shoulder, I would have probably had to have an operation if I wanted to continue when I stopped.

31:43Wow. But when I was 17, 18, people would watch it. And to your point, they'd say like, you can't throw a curve ball when you're 12, right? You're not supposed to do that. Your arm's not supposed to do that. We got 13 years. I never had an operation. That's incredible. I didn't hit it as big at the end. There was obviously wear and tear. If you did a blind MRI on 70 % of tennis players right now, they would have some sort of tear in their rotator cuff of some sort. I don't think it was any worse, considering it was probably technically flawed. When you went home that night, Were you like, oh my gosh, I have just found a significant thing.

32:25No, you're high on hope. You hope that you go back in three days and it's the same. It's still there. Yeah.

32:33Jon McLaughlin:That's the difference between professional athletes and mere mortals as myself. If I had done some version of that, I would have been like, all right, so now I'm going to go to the ad court and I'm going to do the same thing. And I wouldn't have done the same thing. My body just, I don't have that fine tuning. you know it just made sense and then like you get a month you get a month because you've never done it before so like you can see that it's coming off hot but it's like adjusting something and gaining three miles on our fastball but you're still not confident in the strike zone right right and so then like you get a month or two and then three months down the road i'm like oh this is i start winning i won like world championships i'm like oh this is this is different i'm i'm good to go that's it and obviously players don't know what to do with that no i mean i went from like this is going to sound good i was like 30 in the world in juniors which doesn't mean you're going to make it on tour.

33:18It means that you're going to get a free ride somewhere. Okay. To one in the world and juniors in like, and then it got, then I probably 18 months after that, I was borderline top 10 in the world. And it happened like quick. And it was, it was, it was because it was because of that. Isn't that, those, those, that again, this were professional sports and especially maybe tennis or like golf where it's so execution is down to such small details or maybe pitching, whatever. but to think that that one thing well think about that like i think about it often i'm gonna go what if i would have been winning against marty that day yeah i know that's crazy yeah what if it was that afternoon no because i was i wasn't great from the baseline i was fine but like i was i wasn't a top i wasn't number one in the world based on my my ground game or anything else like it was because because i could throw it well and so here's here i get to ask one nerdy question um what did you see change in the time that you were playing from when you started yeah when you ended that you were like man okay tennis has taken these steps forward what did you see so there's a couple things um one the the movement was in like the 90s you would have guys that were like maybe hit huge serves but were kind of like didn't move great oh wow you could like expose it and it It was like, so when the surface is slowed down and then the strings, the new technology and the strings where you can kind of grab the ball a little bit more, like you don't see slow people that are really good at tennis now.

34:49There's just no space for it. Like the way that people move on court, like you watch Alcaraz and Sinner and it's like, holy. The way these guys are getting in and out of the corners, it's just crazy. They've become the best athletes in the world, in my opinion, because it's like non-negotiable. You have to have the motor skills to be able to square a ball up all the time while moving. You have to be an elite, like 12 out of 10 athlete. You have to have endurance. You have to be able to play five and a half hours. You're not allowed to talk to anyone. So you have to kind of mentally be strategic around all things.

35:21So you kind of have to check every box where it's like, I got to number one in the world and I had like my back end was trash. That would not happen ever again. Like you're not going to see someone with like an incomplete game make it to the top of the sport. And you're not even seeing people with incomplete games win majors now. yeah like it just there's there's no space for it like forehands are like backhands there's no weaknesses that you can go to and the guys just it's like a game of pong like they just can cover so much ground movement is is by far like no one's hitting serves harder but like people move so much they move so well which lends itself to them not missing as much right because they're never extended or out of position the movement is is by far number one do you think that you credit that

36:02Jon McLaughlin:more toward like maybe now you know these guys just have teams around them you have like part of the on staff whereas back in the you know maybe mackinrose day you just roll up by yourself or maybe you've got a coach or is it that tennis is attracting the alcaraz or like the rafa who could have gone and played soccer they're coming to play tennis now yeah it's probably some i mean when the money goes up yeah sports become a lot more attractive right yeah yeah right um so that's one but like i know for a fact like i my coach was jimmy connors for a couple years and he's like i never lifted a weight i just hit more tennis balls yeah you know and now you're seeing like the i mean even but even like in all sports you're getting the data feedback from like a wrist watch yeah right and you're knowing like they're like you're at injury risk right now today and you go okay well, I'm going to back off.

36:58I was like, that might've saved you three months. There's so many advantages with what you can do now. So I think it's a combination. I think now that we have the technology, ability, and knowledge, if you give that to a sinner, he is going to max out what he is. You give that to Alcaraz, they're going to max out what they are. And so therefore, someone that's incomplete like me isn't going to sneak in and steal some of their lunch, because they're so well-rounded so complete um but also just i think everyone's just bigger stronger faster the courts have slowed down so it puts more of more importance on movement so it's i think it's all i think it's all of those things what do you mean it means okay so you're if you watch tennis in the 90s a lot of it was big serves just walking back and forth right everyone it was kind of like people like it's boring because you have sam presace and even isovich and becker and they're just doing the same thing back to him so no one will ever admit this on record but it's like known like you put more sand in the mixture of courts, right?

37:56So like when I rub this tabletop on, it's smooth. So I know that a tennis ball on this surface would shoot through because there's nothing to kind of grip it and slow it down. Now, if you put a piece of sandpaper, it hits, it's gritty, and the ball checks up a little bit more. So whatever they did with the courts, balls, etc., now you're seeing like these monster rallies every time where guys are having to run more, therefore running becomes way more important whereas if you watch highlights from like wimbledon in the 90s that ball is shooting through the court like yeah yeah you know whatever that mixture of sand and ground you know it's it's it's uh it's kind of like a whole process like a golf course that's firm like overseas yeah right versus like one that's lush with grass plays slower the drives don't go as far like you can manipulate you know where the bounce is and in kind of so so with with knowing that yeah what would you so i'm a big soccer fan you know thing that is fascinates me about sports these days is that you know people are i think because of money eyeballs whatever like they added five subs now to professional game right so it used to be three that changes a game drastically and for a fan it's great because it means fresher legs the game stays more exciting um what is there something you would change tennis like if like knowing what you know now is there something you'd be like either go back to this or change this or like when you watch it you're like you know what i wish they would do do you do you have any yeah i wish i wish there was more contrast.

39:20Like, I'm never going to be the guy that's like, back in our day, that's when it was the best. Like, everyone's going to be better. Like, bigger, stronger, faster. The game's going to be better in 20 years than it is now. That's just the way it is. Like, you know, it doesn't take anything away from anyone who's done anything before because they were the best given everything they were given. Like, you give someone a wood racket, it's going to come out drastically different than these, like, spin machines that they have in their hands now. Spin machines. Yeah. So it's different. The thing that has to be fixed in tennis is the length of schedule.

39:49And I go off on it all the time. You can't play professional sport from January 1st to December 1st. Yeah. Right. And then there's like mandatory events and all this other stuff. Like we have to, and the problem is all the governing bodies are all fragmented, right? The slams operate as the slams. They're all independent. Then the tours fill in, you know, nine months in between. Then you have, you know, the Olympic slide. And then ITF has team competitions. And basically no one ever agrees because they all just kind of look out for their own thing. There's no union. But we have to find a way to at least minimum finish by November 1st.

40:25Give people a break. Let bodies heal. Like, we don't have a home team. We don't have a Yankee fan base that's going to come even if you're trash. Like, we need star players. We need to keep Sinner and Alcaraz in the game as long as possible. Serena's thinking about coming back. You think that's bad for anyone in tennis? No. We need to keep our stars in the game as long as we can. And we got to give some space to breathe. And we kind of have to give, the point that doesn't get talked about, we got to give fans a chance to miss it. That's right. Yes, that's true. Like when football season comes back around, you're tuning in at the end of July being like, oh, they signed a backup tight end.

41:02Like everyone's all pumped up. We don't have that. And you guys are flying. It's a global sport. Oh God.

41:07Jon McLaughlin:I mean, you're flying literally all over the world. It's insane. We don't get it. I'm going to preface this with, we don't get hit in the head. I understand everything I'm saying. And also when I hear people talk about like, oh, it's a West Coast trip, that time difference. I'm like, oh, there's no way. It's like, no, it's like Memphis on a Friday and Dubai on a Monday, get out of here. Which is a literal true reference. You were in Memphis. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's not an exaggeration. I'm prone to exaggeration. That's not one of them.

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43:16Jon McLaughlin:Okay, so speaking of developments in tennis, there are two that I want your thoughts on here. one for people who don't know it used to be that there would be linesmen that would be calling but their entire job is like you just see if this ball is out or and part of the they watch one line they watch one line yeah part of the fun of the game is when they get it wrong the players have certain amount of challenges yeah now that's that i don't know if there's still linesmen in some tournaments but that it seems like it's all completely gone now there's just a computer that doesn't make mistakes it kind of bums me out yeah what are your thoughts on that yeah i agree with you i is like if i was the commissioner of tennis i'd be like it's the game more popular when we throw stuff and complain like yeah right maybe like i knew i knew for it never affected because like frustration is frustration is frustration and you're trying to win so this isn't a thing but like 100 like to your point i would be in australia we're playing in the middle of the night in America, right?

44:17We'd be playing a slam, you'd make semis and you'd get 12 seconds on SportsCenter. If you threw a fit, broke something and yelled at an umpire, it was like full two and a half minutes. Yeah, 100%. That's crazy. There's no, yeah. So I don't know. There's, I kind of go back and forth. I understand the theater argument and I kind of largely agree with it. I like that. I don't think everyone who complains about it doesn't turn the channel when someone's having a meltdown. They just complain about it later. right um but also i've been on the side where people have you know umpires gotten it wrong in a big match and you feel like something was taken and so that that offset i think if i had to vote you vote on like getting it right yeah and we'll we'll always find something to complain

45:01Jon McLaughlin:about okay what a great other one is is the coaching rule which is a little bit more inconsequential maybe yeah but but there used to be a rule that you cannot the player cannot speak to their coach. Their coach is obviously right there. You can't, if the umpire feels like you're communicating in any way, you know, you get a warning and then you might get a point taken away or whatever. But now that you can talk to your coach as much as you want, right? Yeah. So that one's a little bit different because like, I'm just going to openly admit to cheating right now. There's like, that one is a little bit different because everyone had like, they had a system.

45:42Yeah. It's like your coach goes like this, like they can't get you for it. But if your coach is like, it's like, all right, my return position is going back. Or like, or like they, you know, you look up and they kind of go like this. It's like an out wide there's, there's like, we were, they're all like third base coaches, but it's, it's like every, every tennis coach turns into like Don Zimmer. Shout out Don Zimmer. Yeah. You know, so I still think it's like, I don't, and people are like, well, the thing that differentiates tennis is like the isolation. Yeah. Right. And like the fact that you have to be out there alone for so long, I don't think that's lost right now.

46:21Right. Cause like anything you say as a coach, it's not as if you can, you know, you don't see people sitting down for, you know, however, and also like players and coaches don't agree all the time either. Right. Wow. You know, so like coach tells you something, you can be like, that's not what I'm feeling. I know that's what you're seeing, but I'm just telling you, that's not, that's not what I'm feeling and I don't I don't know that I can actually make the adjustment based on you know how big the ball is coming at me how you know I don't feel good on this side so it's it's it's not it's more nuanced than that but to your point about the theater of tennis and like do we want that being able to have mics and hear what the coaches are saying is is great for for viewing yeah wow like I want to I want to hear what they're saying I want to hear if they're full I want to hear if they're adding value I also love it when the players make a face when they say something.

47:09Yeah. Right. Like, it's like, go do this. And like, you know, that's great. That's great television. Yeah. I do too. So I was kind of against it when they were talking about it. And now that I've seen it, I don't think it makes much of a difference very often.

47:21Jon McLaughlin:Yeah. I still feel like that isolation is, is there. Um, cause also like when you're in the heat of the moment, I wasn't great at listening to people like in a heightened emotional place. Like it wasn't as if I was like, you know what? You're right. You're right. Yeah. I'll give that a go. Yeah. I'll try Yeah, we should, let's talk more. That's not the way it works. But I think it's great for TV. I think it's something else to watch. I think the more you can kind of peel back the layers and kind of give the inside view, I think it's probably a net positive. Yeah. Okay, a couple more questions before we hit the speed round.

47:51So buckle up for that, by the way. I'm ready. Just going to do your mental stretches. Yep. One of the things I love about having professional athletes on is talking about kids and their kids, especially around sports. So knowing what you know from having done it when you did, and obviously, you know, these years later, you know, kids in sports is such a different thing. But how do you think about your kids playing sports? Like if they, let's say that your son or your daughter showed extreme prowess in a way, does that excite you? How do y 'all talk about that in the house? Especially knowing what you know and seeing what you've seen and what you're seeing now.

48:22And the resources that you have at your disposal. Yeah. I'm, so tennis parents are pretty bad. Wow. Right? Like it's, we went through the 90s. It was like even the phenoms, like their dads were, it was gross. It was, you know, verbally abusive. I grew up seeing kids that were like South Florida in the 90s. I saw like kids getting beaten after matches. I saw parents getting in fights. And so I have this, like you have to gamble. If you go so hardcore, it's not dissimilar to what we were talking about when we opened the show. So if Tiger Woods gets past being heckled by his own father, the upside is tremendous.

49:05And if it goes sideways, so I'm pretty hands off. I don't say anything during games beyond like, here you go, good job. I don't talk about it too much. If I have an opinion, I'll kind of say, I saw something, do you want to hear it? Most of the time they'll say, yeah, but there's no pressure. Like I remember going home and it was like the mood of the house was kind of dictated by whether I'd want to loss something, you know, and it, I don't, I have like this, um, I don't want that. I have this like aversion to, to that whole thing. I, but one of my favorite hobbies is being at like a, my son's baseball game and hearing that parents say that is so stupid that it's like, like you'll see, you'll see, like my favorite is like, you'll be at a game and like, you know, some kid's just given up like three runs and then he strikes someone out to end the inning.

50:00The parents are like, dominant. I'm like... It's like... I don't say...

50:08Jon McLaughlin:Perspective. I don't say anything. It's like, I mean, if a couple things break the right way, we'll be... We'll be playing on Sundays. I'm like, dude, he's like, he's like the third backup. Yeah. Yeah, so I have a... I like going for the entertainment value of other parents at sporting events. So let me ask you this. I know this is a heavy question, but what would you say? Like parents that are listening that have kids that are good at sports, what wisdom would you give? Or like you have a friend that calls you who's not an athlete, and he's like, man, our kid is great at basketball or maybe even tennis.

50:43What do you say to that? So there's two things. There's one, whenever you think your kid is really good at something, just travel a little further. Wow. right so like you see the kids in our leagues and there's like there's how many kids are in your league are they the best 10 in their league so therefore we think they're awesome yes yes are there 50 other leagues like that in the state that's really good so then it's like let's at least let's apply math to excellence a little bit and like let's then let's let's stress test um against that the worst question i get asked all the time is how many hours a day did you train Oh, wow.

51:22And I was like, I don't know. When I was nine, I could hold my attention for like an hour. And what I think is how many hours can you play before it becomes tedious and not fun? Wow. Some kids can go three hours and they love it the whole time. Wow. You're doing a disservice to the kids that have an hour and a half. They feel terrible about the last hour of practice. And you can say, let's try to build. Let's build five minutes. Wow. But because some guy you asked who used to play sports says four hours, you're going to go do four. Like there's different kids progress at different times. They're ready for things at different times.

51:57There's not like a stock answer. And the other thing that I'll say is like, if you're a parent and you're guiding your kids, control the controllables, right? If something happens and you get called out on strikes, the conversation can't be for the rest of the day. That ref sucks. Yeah. Right. It has to be, you're going to, you're going to get one. You're going to lose one. Like what did we do well that we can control right did you show up were you warm when you went in you know were you one of the first ones there were you ready to throw when the time started like if the conversation centers around the stuff that's in your control and you get 95 of those right you're gonna have a lot more

52:35Jon McLaughlin:days that feel like wins i think yeah that's so good man gosh that's good okay i'm gonna throw in just one more last question before we hit the speed round um you know you bring up agassi i loved agassi i read his his autobiography open which i i thought was amazing yep and he he talks about how much he hates tennis throughout the whole book and we've had a couple professional we had a professional uh mma fighter on here and i'm curious with anybody who does what you guys do on a professional level do you enjoy it and i know that they're you know the matches are just like with Dave and I playing concerts, it's like that's, or Drew, that's 3 % of your time is like on stage doing the thing.

53:22Jon McLaughlin:There's a lot of other aspects to it, but if we're just talking about the matches, like in 2009 Wimbledon final, you're in this epic battle with Roger Federer. Are you enjoying the match? I'm not thinking about that. That's not even part of the equation. But I'll tell you like every single match, I won 600 and something matches in my career, which is a lot for a shorter career. I was nervous before every single one. Wow. Like every, I could be playing someone 150 in the world and it's like my stomach in like 12 years of that where you're going through that maybe six times a week on a good week.

54:06Jeez. Right? It's like, or you're going into, like I remember, and it's like this kind of, this is an extreme example, but I tell the story in our podcast sometimes, like, did you enjoy it? I'm like, I love it. I love the hard parts of it, but I like them more after the fact. Yeah. Right. Like we, we played in Australia and it's one of those ones where on center court, you walk down five steps to walk up three steps. Right. But you wait at the bottom before you go up those three steps. So you're kind of eye level with the court and they used to play it on this service that was basically like a rubber mat on top of concrete.

54:40So it was called rebound ace. but if you've smelled tires when they're hot or burning, that's what it would smell like, right? So you would, it'd be 140 degrees on court in Australia and you would be about to walk out and you would get like a waft of like burnt rubber. Holy cow. And you know that there's potentially, every time you go out there, you could be out there for five hours. Yeah. Jeez. Right? And so then you get that first thing. So like, yeah, that's brutal. And also I was good at being uncomfortable. Like I was, I was, I was, you know, so there are these very hard things that you're like, you can make an excuse for.

55:19And it's like, this stinks. That's not fun. Like no part of that is fun. Right. It's fun when the guy wilts and it's, it's like, it's satisfactory when the guy like rolls over. So I, but then how's this for like champions and smart people saying smart things. So I was complaining. I was, I was complaining. That needs to be the name of your podcast, by the way. No, no, no. This is, I'm not the champion. I'm not the smart person. um so i mentioned something like that to andre it's like man it's hot up there to me it smells like he goes he goes will you shut up i'm like okay that's aggressive um it's not not what you want to hear from your like idol right um so you i wore all the bad spandex with you you can give me a break um so so he goes he goes you need to think about it differently and i was like I mean hot is hot like I don't know like he goes no he goes how many other people have to be better at their job than exactly one person every day every wow every other job you have you're playing against the field every day like your music like the way you play piano you're playing against either yourself or the field right can I create something that's better than a million people you can't see yeah yeah He goes, you know who you have to be better than.

56:35You just have to be better than one person a day. I'm like, man, that simplifies a lot of things. That's probably why you're great.

56:41Jon McLaughlin:Yeah. You know? Okay. But like, no, so like the parts of it aren't fun, but then you get to that part of it and it's like, it's satisfactory. But no, it takes away a lot of the fun, I think when there's consequence. I just want to say quickly, I mean, obviously I would never know this, but what a fascinating, I've never thought about that, that you know the court is that hot and you're like, I'm about to be unbelievably uncomfortable for hours. Horrible. Hopefully not hours, but yeah. Like what you eat, your fluid intake, it's all on the possibility of you playing the longest match you've ever played.

57:17Right? Like you kind of have to do that. These matches are so long.

57:20Jon McLaughlin:I mean, the majors, yeah, you're out there five, five and a half hours. Yeah, the French Open was 539 last year. Crazy. Is the Australian, is that always the hottest one? It, yeah, not the hottest tournament. It's like has the potential. So you'll get like 65 degree days, but then when it turns up, it literally feels like you're playing in a hairdryer. Oh my gosh. It's horrible. And then the encore, because now it's concrete or rubber. So like if the temps 104, by the time it gets down and you're in a metal stadium, right? So it's like attracting this. So you're just in like a, you're in like a crock pot.

57:58Oh, that's unbelievable. It's pretty gross.

58:01Jon McLaughlin:All right, here we go with our speed round. All right, ready. Number one. Okay, what player did you have to adjust your game the most for? Oh, Federer. And that's the reason. Matchups matter at a certain point, right? I could play well, and I knew I had to play well. Everything he did bother me and really nothing that I could hit a serve big. And he had the quickest eyes I've ever seen, right? The ability to adjust to speed so that instantly neutralized my biggest weapon. So him for sure. Wow. Okay, I've got a second one. I'm coming up with this right now. If there's any ability someone else had that you wish you had, what was that ability?

58:38Yeah, I would say the ability to kind of accept pace the way like Andre did or Roger did. So what does that mean? Yeah, I want me to do that. It means if someone hit a huge shot, like your shot tolerance, right? Like I couldn't lean in. My strokes were too – like my technique was too big. I needed time to be effective, and those guys didn't need time. That's incredible. Yeah. So cool.

59:01Jon McLaughlin:All right. If you could have dinner with four people living or dead, who would it be? Is that a real one? Present company included.

59:13God, I hate these because I want time with it.

59:16Jon McLaughlin:This is Dave's question. Sorry. I said don't ask. No, I'm...

59:30one is going to be Cal Ripken oh wow okay love Cal Ripken talk about showing up for work every day I mean no joke that's pretty cool I met him one time and I couldn't speak I think Mandela I think there's a lot of stuff going on where it's like, I think we look for a shortcut to a result. Man alive. And for someone who like, Ali is the same, probably the same, like no shortcuts to, whether you agree, disagree, whatever it is. Yeah. Yeah. But like the ability to like, we've, we've a lot of, I think culture now is allergic to playing the long game for something important. Yeah. It's like everything comes to us very quickly.

1:00:12So I'd want to nerd out on that a little bit.

1:00:18Can I, okay. I have a caveat. hopefully you just say yes to this. This is your game. My father passed before our son was born. Can I invite my, can I have my, can I have one more dinner with my father and then have my son say hello? We'll allow that. That's what I want. There we go. That would be it. And my dad would also be pumped that Cal Ripken was there. It's a double. Okay. Who's the most underrated player right now, women's and men's? Underrated player right now. Or it could even be too, maybe like who are the ones you watch? You're like, ooh. Yeah. I mean, in tennis there's this culture of like you win a major or like you stink like and i'm excited because like i'm going to commentary for the first time and i have one job as i view it with going into commentary for the first time and it's to make sure people understand why it's so hard yeah that's right that's and so my like off the top of my mind is is like alex verev who's three in the world.

1:01:16It's phenomenal. Has won 25 tournaments, Olympic gold, been in grand slam finals. And every, every conversation is like, yeah, but he's not Alcaraz or sinner. I'm like, you can't throw away accomplishment just because he's not like an all timer. Yeah. Right. And so I, it's like to the point where I went off on our show, like off on a total tangent where someone on another tennis podcast was like, I mean, he's just not that good. I'm like, what the are you talking about? Like, you guys, three, what do you, what is wrong with you so alex verov is probably the one where it's like he's like the definition for what's wrong with the narrative in our sport yeah yeah like let's explain why the matchups are harder you can you can talk about deficiencies yeah that he has and why it's harder but like let's actually

1:02:02Jon McLaughlin:like not be lazy about it yeah yeah all right last question if you wrote a book on being a dad what would the title be? In progress. Probably. I don't like, I mean, you guys talk about this all the time, but it's like, you think, you know, a lot and then you realize you don't know much. I think it's just, it's like the ultimate gift. Cause you feel like you're making a million maybe decisions. And if something good happens out of that, it's like, it just, just, it's like sunshine. It just is, is the best. And I don't care what you know, like parenting is just different. It's just harder. And I, how you parent, I mean, do you guys like, you guys parent, like we have a son where we have to parent a certain way.

1:02:47And then we have a daughter where, you know, we found out she has, you know, ADHD. And so like the way that I have to learn all over again, how to meet her, where she's at versus our son, who you can just like, dude, that's, stop being a douchebag. Like you're going to like, it's, it's, it's just this ever changing never finished process that's just like you hope you're just white knuckling it into like a good job have they you know one one let's not speak around but just one last question yeah have they like did they know about your career yet is that something where like what does that look like with them they do now i think but they didn't know much they knew tennis because they hear me talk about it and stuff but um when they went to kindergarten they actually kind of understood because other kids or their parents talked about it.

1:03:33Yeah. But before that, so like my son came home and he was like, you're a tennis pro? I was like, well, yeah, well, yeah. And he goes -

1:03:40Jon McLaughlin:That's amazing. And he said, he's like, well, what club do you teach at? I'm like, well, not that type of tennis pro. It's confusing. Yeah. But then he was like, but then they started asking questions and it goes the other way where it's like, dude, never talk about this again. Cause he comes, he's like, well, what was your highest rank? I was like, well, number one. He's like, and then he'd be like, my dad's the best ever. I'm like, if you don't say that to anyone ever. No, my dad told me he was the best. Yeah, exactly. I'm like, oh my God, I'd want to crawl underneath the couch and never come out.

1:04:07Don't ever say that to anyone. So, okay, maybe this is the last big round question. If you, like, what match or how would you, if your son came to you today and fully enlightened and said, dad, like, I want to see you play. Like, show me, show me like, you know, a couple of points or something. is there a match that you would play for and be like this this was me doing my thing we've never watched anything back really would you ever like would you want to do that with him like if he asked would you feel weird honestly i just don't care um yeah like it doesn't he knows like he knows now like he under he understands our daughter my daughter could not care less like there's no there's not even like a like i feel like my son has like a little bit of sense of pride about it but our daughter just doesn't care.

1:04:54I don't know. I would go between like a loss and if you handled it well as like something that I had to work really hard to do. Like that wasn't always, it's like a learnable thing. There probably weren't many examples but I'd try to find the needle in the haystack on that. Yeah, yeah, that's great. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you, thank you, thank you. This was great. Appreciate you guys. Thanks for having me on.

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