Dave and Jon: When to Push Your Kids

23:43Yeah. And I'm so obsessed with those that I'm not quite seeing the song as a whole. And I mean, I've had so many of those over the years where I go, like when I was doing records with Ed, I'd go play him a song and I'd be like, and he's like, same as Matt. Like, yeah, it's cool. It's not. And you're like, well, now I got to throw away the two best lines I've written. That one chord change I never thought I would land or, you know, that little melody and the bridge that's the cool. And you know, you just, so it's hard because I think without people's perspective, I can fight too hard for things that are moments as opposed to songs for me, I'm speaking.

24:17And I think it's helpful when you have people go like, Hey, I hear you, but I just

24:20Jon McLaughlin:don't think the whole thing is quite yeah and so often the that thing that you're so excited about it it's not even noticed by half the people especially if it's some kind of musical thing like the the song that i'm referring to had a the chorus was in like a different it wasn't a different meter but it slowed down the tempo slowed way down and i was just like live this will be so fun. Yes, that's what I mean. But, and I do think it would be fun. It would be a great live moment, but like you're saying, it's a moment. It's the song based on sort of the data that I'm getting back from people. No one's walking away humming this song after the concert.

25:08Jon McLaughlin:So, I really tried to trim those out. Don't get distracted by that. It's such a bummer. Yeah. but anyway so the album comes out again October 24th 24th it's called Scenarios Scenarios yeah and you can look you don't have to wait you can pre-order it right now as you're listening guys and I can feel I can like hear all the listeners being like look no thanks because I don't pre-order an album unless I can get a sweatshirt or a t-shirt or a piano book surely are you about to you can get all those things johnmcl.com j-o-n-m-c-l dot com and you can grab web you can get all those things i have a single bit of it every single bit um look enough about my album that's not even out yet dave let's talk about albums that are out okay let's talk about albums that are before they get away from us hey let's talk about songs that got away they did let's talk about i was down in florida last week actually at this time i think and i went on a little run and i was miserable because it was so humid and so hot you love a hot run john i know but a humid i'm in a florida human yeah that's a different level yeah man it was different and the only thing that buoyed me was i listened to your new album front to back oh wow and i mean i want to hear your thoughts on it But I just want to say, I said this to you the other day, the production on it is so, I think it's so cool because it's like each song feels like an album.

26:48Jon McLaughlin:Yeah. You know what I mean? Like each song is a different vibe. It felt, I wonder if you feel this way production wise, if you felt like I can do whatever I want. Oh yeah. This song could be, have kind of more of a hip hop groove and I don't need to worry about like, well, what's the through line here? That's right. That's exactly right. It made it really interesting and fun to listen to. And there's so many great songs. I mean, I told you this the other day. I don't know why. That song, Some People's Kids. Why didn't anyone? I want somebody to record it so bad. Well, it's such a great song. Some people's kids.

27:28Yeah, the whole thing. I mean, you nailed it. That really was what was so fun. So again, if you follow me, you know this. and we've talked about it a little bit on the pod, but it's an album full of songs that I wrote for other people that they didn't record. So I was like, well, I want people to hear them. So I recorded them. And so, you know, it's about half demos from the day of writing that like we're in the room. Whoever was the producer in the room at the moment, you know, worked it up. I either sang on it or, you know, somebody else in the room sang on it. And they just sort of lived in my Dropbox for forever.

27:59And I would listen to them with the kids. You know, it was like some people's kids literally was my kid. there's probably three or four songs on album that my kids were like you have to release that song that and that was the first one that they were like dad this song is so good we love this song why does nobody record it and so it was as simple as just like you know andrew roberts did that wrote that with he and parker welling and andrew i mean that what you hear is i didn't change anything about that song i just asked him to get the files so that we could mix it and then i had sean moffitt mix it and that was it so about half of the record is to your point these songs you just did that day you didn't think any more about it there's no thought to like whatever do a soundscape like this on a record whatever it's like no this is what we thought it sounded like and then the other half songs like symphony that i wrote with kelsey ballerini and forrest um you know it's like that all it was was her singing it and it's her singing it so it's a female song it's written so i had to tweak a couple of lines and then i just worked on that one myself so that's fine because it's like well this could go anywhere like if i was going to do it how would i do it and so it really it's been fun to put them out because there's there's so many songs i never would have probably recorded under my own artist thing except for having an asterisk like this record where you can go hey the reason it sounds like this is because these were never meant to be for me and then it's fun because then you can sort of let your freak flag fly of like oh yeah that's gonna sound like like you said really soulful and funky and this one's gonna be really heartfelt and this one's just like an acoustic and a couple other things and then that one sounds like whatever.

29:29And so it's been fun. And I've had a lot of friends that have, you know, that's such a win is when people are like, man, I didn't, you know, I just never heard you do something like that. And it's great and we love it. Or, you know, why are you still doing music? So, but yeah, it came out a couple weeks ago. Cheap Camaro, you know, the one bummer, and this has been, I've just had to like move on. So Cheap Camaro, which is the last single that came out when the whole record came out. You know, we did a song a month. I wrote with Andy Skib and Chris Allen. friend of the pod and uh andy's just such a monstrous writer and producer he is he's one of my favorite producers in nashville and we wrote that song you know andy and chris and i've just had kind of a standing right at once a month where we just and it's so fun because there's no thought to why we're doing whatever song we're doing there's not like hey is so-and-so wanting to record this who's who's needing songs right we just get in and have fun musically and that was one that like Chris saying, you know, such a monstrous singer.

30:27And so, and again, the kids loved it. I loved it. And I needed like one more song. And I was like, Oh man, what if I just did cheap Camaro? So I had Andy send me the track. I sang on top of it. And I was like, this actually sounds pretty good. Um, but it's such a bummer. And it was such a bummer the way it ended this way. There was a total slip up with our distribution company online. And so when we were entering the songs to get the album ready, it thought Cheap Camaro was supposed to be single. So like a month ago, it came out for like 10 hours. And so all these people were like, dude, love the new song.

31:01I was like, what? And I went, I was like, oh no. So we pulled it off. But the way that TuneCore works is that once it's been, and I should say not TuneCore, the DSP, so Spotify and Apple Music, I think, Tidal, and then also the bike, waiver, crush, vendor. but like once it sees that it has a way it marks songs and gives it a number for the algorithm you know just to put in the system you can't re-release it as a single anymore and so it stunk because the day of the album came out Cheap Camaro which is one of the songs I was probably the most excited about never got on Discovery Playlist or any of the Apple stuff because it had already been in the system and so it sort of felt like a little bit of a sad too but on the day of the release because it was like that album that song which i was which why we kept it as the last song you know to kind of announce the album was out yeah didn't get it sort of day in the sun yeah which is a bummer but you know it is what it is we tried everything we could we even changed like we thought you could kind of change so we had it shortened so when it got re-entered maybe it wouldn't get flagged but it did and it just sort of it's sort now is just on the album and not a single.

32:13But I'm really proud of it. I'm glad it came out. It was such a... And I think I'll probably do it again someday.

32:19Jon McLaughlin:I think... Well, you probably have... I mean, you've written so many songs. You could probably do an album every year of this kind of thing. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if they'd be good, but it'd be albums. The thing I think I want to do next in a couple years is the songs that got away, but my artist songs. Oh, yeah. Because I've been sort of spelunking that cave as of late, and there's more there that I like than I thought. and so I think I'll do it again but it's just a fun I think I really think every artist should do that I really do I think I think we all have songs that you know you just you know you take into fields or something and you know 10 years ago and go and he's like yeah we like these they just don't I don't know they don't fit the rest of the record and you're like you know they're great songs and to have sort of this way to sort of release them under this banner where you don't have to explain them but just go like here they are and you know there's songs that fans would remember because you played them live and they're like oh my gosh it's that one that i'm i love this song and i always went away never released it so um i think i think you know i think we all should do this it's a really fun sort of get out of jail free kind of project you know what i mean yeah it would be interesting to to go back like now i'm thinking of some songs that i used to play every show for a little while there that i never recorded there were a couple of those yeah but i would play them live anyway that's an interesting thing i gotta like go back you know and i think it would be fun it's like asking like listeners you know just to go like hey when y 'all when i say this are there songs that you think of and i bet you know we would all be surprised by the ones that they bring up you're like i didn't i mean i played that twice or you know like it was whatever but um but it was fun it was it's been fun to have it out it's fun to kind of have it But, you know, be out there is something that was just kind of a fun little thing, you know.

34:16And for it to serve the person, it is. So, you know, there it is. And I've played a couple live, which has been fun. Which ones have you played? I played Symphony. I was in Houston a couple weeks ago. Played Symphony. I'm trying to think. There's one other one I think I did. But it's fun because it's like, oh, these actually kind of work in this context.

34:35Jon McLaughlin:I feel like with some people's kids, I don't know if you would ever do this, but like if you had some kind of loop station. You could do that. Or something like that. Yeah. I feel like that could go well. Yeah. I've never done the loop station. Oh, me neither. It terrifies me. I did it one time. We talked about it on the pod. Remember when we had Show Baraka on? Oh, yes. Yes. And we, I did an After Dark. I feel like it was Georgia Tech. He was there too, right? Yeah. He, this is one of those things where it's like, it makes no sense why the show was laid out this way. But like, show played first.

35:20Jon McLaughlin:Oh, that's a nightmare. And it was a party. It was like in the arena. It was a party. and then they stop and then me and bob bobby lee stamper and i went out and you know we come out with my little keyboard and white guys and a keyboard and acoustic guitar guys and so we were in the green room and like the bass is is thumping and we're like we have to come up with a loop on like our iphone or something like that so we literally no we were on bobby's phone like on garage band trying to come up with i mean we were like what song could a beat go with it was terrible what song did you do i don't remember there there are a few i know we talked about this this show but as white guys with guitars and pianos in after dark is where i got caught a couple times i don't i think even maybe early lecrae i did something with him like early early days Lecrae but I know like I can't believe it was I remember if it was Andy Minio it was like kind of like Cadre like Lecrae's you know show all those guys who were doing that stuff early days and I remember like same I had to close a show and it was like there's not many worse things in our job than when you're like I came as an acoustic duo and either a band opened or even worse a hip-hop artist and the crowd is live the subs yeah you're just like in your life feel like i'm the principal coming in and like nothing fancy about the way i look up here guys look please look up here guys no no you can't hear the song when you're walking out

37:06you can't hear the song when you're walking out yeah it's it's it's funny like and it you know i don't know that it matters who it is like even if you put mayor up there after and it's him and a guitar he could play and you're still going to be like yeah it just doesn't sound wise it's not yeah it's tough to like it's like that look the cheese board is great yeah but if

37:31Jon McLaughlin:you start with like birthday cake yeah and then you go to the cheese board i don't know i'm not sure if that's no actually no that plays for me it's like allergies when you've had you had a little at a time okay when you have when pollen enters the nasal cavities it's like a a new single oh my god just tried to drop uh yeah i uh

37:59Jon McLaughlin:you know there was a time i don't need to remind you when the origins of dadville were just a dream We were so young. I know. But then that dream turned into a podcast. It's the one you're listening to right now. Starting a business. A business, John. Starting a business like this is a dream for many of us. I mean, all of us, if we're being honest. He doesn't want to start a podcast. 100%. But too many of us let it remain just a dream. So sad. Don't hold yourself back thinking, what if I don't have the skills? Stop it. What if I can't do it alone? Okay. What if I'm not as good as John and Dave?

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39:49Oh, man. Dave. Yeah. Hey. Yeah. Hey. Hey, just real quick. Okay. I'm not mad that when I wake up in my bedroom, you're here. But at some point, do you see an end to it?

40:03Jon McLaughlin:Can I not be excited about our friendship? Okay. No, that's fine. Jeez. When you say it that way, I feel like. I've been waiting for two hours to ask you this. You know that feeling when you wake up at 3 a.m. and your sheets are like a wetsuit? What? Look, I'm going to be honest with you, and she's not going to like this, but I've always blamed Danny. I've blamed my mattress. I've blamed global warming, John. All valid suspects. But you know what's funny? What? Turns out it was my bedding the whole time. Enter Bowling Branch. I knew it. God, we're such best friends. You know, their summer sheets are 100 % organic.

40:39Jon McLaughlin:100, John? Yeah, 100. Wow. Woven specifically for airflow. Okay, tell me more. Not that fake cooling technology that's just a marketing word on a polyester bag. Right. Bunch of liars. The cooling is structural, John. Structural. I don't even know if you know this. It's literally how the cotton is woven, which sounds like something a sleep scientist would say. And I'm not one. Right. But I respect that. I respect that. Yeah. You know, 94 % of customers say that the sheets actually get softer with every wash. Oh, it's even possible, yeah. Mine get crunchier, actually. Oh, okay. So this was a needed upgrade.

41:13Jon McLaughlin:Yeah, agreed. Crunchy sheets are not the best, John. Not the best. They're not the smartest guy. No. You don't want them. So listen, sleep cooler this summer with Bull and Branch during their annual summer event for a limited time. That means the time is limited. Yes. Get 20 % off site-wide at BullandBranch.com slash Dadville with the code Dadville. Hurry up, guys. That's BullandBranch, B-O-L-L-A-N-D-B-R-A-N-C-H.com slash Dadville. Code Dadville to take 20 % off. I'm going to say it again. Say it again. BullandBranch.com slash Dadville. Code Dadville. Exclusions do apply. No more wetsuit sheets.

41:50Never again.

42:18But, you know, I think I'd love to hear because, you know, the girls are playing now. Your girls are all up in some soccer and they're just rocking the casbah. I'm just curious your take. And I just sort of want to put this out for people to respond to when they hear this episode. Send us some DMs and emails or whatever because I really do want to hear how people think about this. But I think the thing that is tricky amongst other things with like club or recreational, but in this instance club, is, you know, these things are businesses. And so I think like what gets tricky to me about when you're paying, you know, whatever it is, a thousand bucks for your kid to play a club sport.

42:55I think a couple of things that you're paying for are a certain level of play. So if you have a child that is like good at something, you're kind of going, hey, recreational is great, but they actually want to be challenged. They want to have like playing with other people who are dedicated to kind of getting better to competing at a certain level.

43:16Jon McLaughlin:Yeah. you know whereas recreation which we've had kids do that with different our kids have different sports like that's more like you know they want to have a good time but this is not something we want to practice more like a week one of the moms or dads yeah that's exactly right um so it's not like a x like you know pro or whatever like a credentialed coach it's just you know a parent who might have played at some point or just really loves the sport um i think what's tricky about the the club thing is like you're, you're paying for a certain kind of experience, but then, you know, there are times where you're on a team where it's not giving you what you're paying for.

43:56And either it's just like, you know, the coaching isn't great. Um, the kids on the team probably shouldn't have made the team because they're not at the level that should be club. Um, you're getting shellacked every weekend.

44:12Jon McLaughlin:Yeah. and you're driving to get shellacked so this is like an hour you know to wherever or sometimes it's the weekend that's right hotels yes right you've gone to Birmingham at this for us Birmingham if it's Knoxville or whatever Cookville London London yes or if you're really aggressive London Kentucky and uh and so I think with me like I've I've I've just felt so much more sane because I've talked to a couple of my friends like this is not a thought I had natively I had friends tell me this who are older have older kids are like this is the thing about club sports though is it's a business you've paid them to give you a product and you have a right as a parent if they're not giving you that product at a certain point to not do it anymore yeah and i think it's just an interesting thing because i think there is something also in the culture of america where it's like when you've said yes you know you let your yes be yes and your no be no so like when they've committed to be on a team and it's every movie you've ever seen or every like motivational talk or something your parents told you growing up is like, Hey, we said yes to this.

45:14We're going to say yes to it. But I think, I think it's interesting to have a dialogue around, well, hold on now. You know, like they're not, they're not, if this was a restaurant to be closed, like this team would be closed. It's like, it's a business just like a restaurant is a business or a car wash or whatever if it's not doing its job it's not going to keep it's not going to keep going because it's not delivering what you're paying for it to give you you know and so i just think like i had a friend of mine i was kind of talking about this a couple years ago and he was like parents forget that like and that's from like hey we're not we're not gonna be on the team anymore like this it's not worth us giving all of this time and energy to something that is not giving us anything back and i have the right to say that because i paid for it and we either like want a prorated rate or we're just not gonna we're okay to forego the thing we just don't it's literally not worth what we're getting our child isn't developing he's not getting along with teammates she's not you know we're getting just again crushed every weekend and it's just not worth it and i think it's funny because you just so rarely hear that kind of thing and my friend when he said this i remember thinking like i've never thought about it he's like well so one it's that but it's too also with club sports is like when they come to you and go hey we want to go play this tournament you know as an exhibition in memphis like as parents you can go yeah we don't want to do that yeah and you can and he's like you know and he's got kids that are older he was like there were numerous times where the parents would call each other and be like yeah we don't hey bob we love you and you're great we just don't want to do that that's not worth our time because you really do you're the customer and i i would not have i would have been like you

46:58Jon McLaughlin:I wouldn't have even thought I mean like we signed up for this if we got to go to Birmingham we were supposed to go to Birmingham last weekend my birthday weekend which I actually I don't mind they can be really fun I've done that but you know it's not what I would have envisioned you know and we didn't do it like there was kind of a I think this is what happens there was like a consensus amongst the parents but led by you know So everyone has that one parent that's kind of like the liaison a little bit. Yeah, right, right, right, right. And ours was like, yeah, we don't want to do that. So we didn't do it.

47:37Jon McLaughlin:Yeah. But I would have, that would not have been me. I would have been like complaining as I'm driving down to Birmingham. Right. You know. Yeah. And I mean, I talked to another good friend. This was, gosh, three months ago. He's got a kid that's on a club soccer team. And the coach came to them and came to the parents. They did a Zoom or something. And he was like, hey, I think we're going to submit the team to play at this level. And we want to do – that would require this kind of travel and whatever. And the Zoom ended. My buddy got on a text thread with the other parents, and it was unanimous.

48:07They were like, we do not want to play at that level. It's too high, and we don't want to travel to those places. So he was elected, and he called the coach and said, hey, we're not going to do that. And the coach was like, no, no. And he's like, no, you're misunderstanding me. We're not going to do that. so if you want us to be a team we want to play at this level in these tournaments and the coach said i disagree but i will do that because and that's what they're doing and they're having a good season yeah and so i just think it's an interesting dynamic i've seen this a little bit here's of late with some friends and it just gives me a lot more like ease knowing you know i think again as we talked to pure athlete about like there's more of a dialogue around these things than we think And I think there's some leeway, there's some leeway.

48:48And again, it's a business. And I think, but it, it really crashes up against that ideology of like, when we say yes to a team, you're on a team, whatever. And I'm, and look, I agree with that. I really do. And I think it would need to be a pretty substantial circumstance for you to ever, you know, go like, Hey, I think we're done with this team for the season or, you know, we're not traveling that tournament. I mean, that's different because, you know, you have other things going on and whatever. Um, but I do think I just think it's an interesting thing in America because we do have such a, you never say quit.

49:22You never give up on your teammates, whatever. But I also think there's a point where it's like, it's okay to go, hey, this just isn't working for us this season. Yeah.

49:31Jon McLaughlin:It's interesting to think about the comparison to restaurants. Like a restaurant, that's a great comparison. Like if the restaurant's not good, it will go out of business. That's right. I mean, there are probably maybe some exceptions there that you can make if it's like a huge national chain or something like that. But there are so many other businesses that don't operate that way. The club sport thing would be one of them. Or like an airline or something like that. You know, an airline, there's some airlines out there that are terrible. But it's like this price, if we're the cheapest ticket to Dallas, you're going to buy this ticket.

50:14That's right. That's right. And you know what? To exactly that example, I remember a couple years ago with one of our three, they went and made a team, a club team. Again, and this is club. I mean, that's a big deal. You're paying for it because you want a certain experience. You want a certain level of coaching. You want kids on the team to be at a certain level. and I remember with one of ours, I watched the first practice and I was like, those three kids have never played soccer. I know it. I know. I watch a ton of soccer. I love the game. Those three kids, God bless them, they never played.

50:46Now, they're wonderful kids and that's awesome they're playing but I'm like, this is not, and it said to me, do you know what that means? Is that not enough kids tried out for this team to make the numbers they need and so they're letting these kids play. And so I think that is - Which is,

51:04Jon McLaughlin:it depends on how you look at it. That's right. Like you're saying, we want all the kids to play. Yeah, absolutely. But this is... You're paying. That smells to me like somebody at some point, and maybe this is a too, you know, a negative way to look at it, but I'm like, you know, like you're saying, this is a business. Yeah. And just like the NFL would love, all the owners would love to have a 19 game season. Yeah. This is like that type of thing where it's like, well, if we add two more teams, yeah, look what happens to the spreadsheet. Exactly right. So let's add those two more teams. I think we can make it, you know?

51:41Well, and I just think, I think again, and it's not, I'm not trying to poo poo on the whole experience because we've had some really great experiences with our kids with club teams. But at the same time, it is a business where you just nailed it. Like that is happening in Nashville currently. Like there are new clubs popping up in every county in Nashville, greater Nashville every year. And so kids are moving around like crazy because coaches in one club go to start another club. And that's all – everybody can do whatever they want. And sometimes that proves to be really good because whatever.

52:13But I think what happens is then those clubs where all those kids left or the coaches left, they have to get new players. And as much as Nashville is growing, there's not that much of a population of kids those ages playing soccer. And so what happens is –

52:29Jon McLaughlin:At that level. At that level. That's exactly right. And so then they take on those five kids where I'm sure they're sitting in the room going, look, I don't know if he's ever played, but we need people. And so then obviously the quality just goes down. And so then you have to as a parent sort of go like, well, gosh, what do we do with – like this isn't really what we paid. I mean if that's all you say, this is just not what we paid for. And I think, again, if it was a restaurant, like that thing goes out of business. yeah and so i think it's i don't know i just found myself thinking about that lately after talking to a couple other dads about that just kind of the dilemma of sort of youth sports sorry club sports and just going you know i think it's okay as a parent and that's really why i wanted to bring it up anybody listening it's in that dilemma i think just to not forget you're paying for a product you absolutely have the right to have expectations and i think if those expectations aren't being met and especially if they're putting a strain on your family or your kid is having some terrible experience that, that, and I would, I would say even more that's, that's going to affect how they feel about that sport.

53:31I think you have a right to go, Hey, look, we just, we're not going to do it for the rest of the season.

53:34Jon McLaughlin:What's, what makes it a little more complicated is the scenario where it's not quite as cut and dry. Like the product maybe is not great. Like you're describing, but the kids having a great time. That's the thing. You know what I mean? That's where it's a little tricky. Well, and you know what? We, we've, we've had one of those. we've had one of those with our boys where they were on a team and, and, and you, I'm so glad you brought that up because here's the thing. There's redemptive, if you can find like one redemptive thing, that's, it's, it's usually worth it, you know? And so for, for one of our boys, he was on team and the team wasn't great, but he loved the kids and they had, you know, they won probably 30 % of the time, 40 % of the time, but he just really liked it.

54:16And for me, I was like, this is great. I mean, I don't love losing, you know, he didn't love losing, but at the same time it was like no it's ticking a box that matters to us and so again i don't think i think it takes a lot for you to get to a point where you're like this is kind of a non-redemptive experience yeah but i think if you do get to that point you have a right to say yeah we're just not going to do it like

54:36Jon McLaughlin:there you you always though at some point have to square up to what is the best thing for your kid like in terms of you've got the kids who like clearly are never gonna this is not gonna be their future this is gonna be a social thing right at the right at most right that's easy right then you've got the kids who are like we need to get them down to nsc like today today yeah or arsenal we need to fly across the pond arsenal needs to take a look at this kid that that also is easy that's a little more cut and dry yeah the the middle ground where you're like this kid's got definitely some potential yeah what's the move here like do we kind of push oh anytime i hear of you know somebody some actor or some athlete or whatever where they're talking about their their upbringing and they're like so we you know we packed up and we moved yeah because there was this coach down you know and and that's probably always those you know those other categories of kids that were just clearly like the stars or whatever but there's always a part of you in in the back of your mind that's like should that be us should we be making a move here yeah do you know what i mean yeah that's where that's tricky well you know what i think it's tricky too it's so funny that you said that.

56:06Annie and I had a conversation about this last week. Like it, I think one of the trickiest things about parenting and Annie and I kind of sit on different sides of this, which I love. I'm so thankful that because I love checks and balances in a marriage, um, is more checks. Right. Yeah. Balances are, it's tricky. Um, and scales. And then you have like, you don't like, you went a little hard on Thanksgiving and that's okay. Sure. You can walk it off. Uh huh. Not at 47. As long as you can stay balanced. Touche. but like she never told my this like we have very different views on this but we land thankfully we hold a lot of space for each other and i think we'd land in a good place in the middle but this idea that like how do you when you have a kid and it can be like with your girls with musicals it can be sports whatever something they have a penchant for they have a leaning toward um how do you navigate how much you push them in that thing yeah and how much you let them naturally move toward it.

57:03Totally. Because I tend to be, and I think to potential detriment, no, let's follow their lead. Like there's nothing that sort of, I get more cringy about than like pushing a kid in a way that maybe they don't want to go, or they're just not showing a lenient toward. Now, where Annie would very articulately and wisely say, this kid is also 11 years old. You know, he or she doesn't, why would they know what they really want or need with some affinity they have for something? We may need to push them. And I think she's right. At the same time, you know, my argument is like, look, I just, I would just be really nervous that we would force them into something either halfway through the season they don't want to do anymore or they don't want to do anymore because we push too hard.

57:53And so again, I think that's a really great checks and outs. But I do think as a parent, it's such a tricky thing trying to have that crazy amount of wherewithal where you have a kid like your girls who are great at musicals. You know, they love soccer, whatever it is. And you're going, okay, you know, do we like get them a private singing instructor for the, you know, for, or like, you know, you were talking about our friend who coaches, you know, like tryouts, you know, that helps them understand how to try out better. like do you kind of bring her in or is that or the girls can be like whoa like yeah this got really intense really fast i know i think that i really think that is one of the hardest things about parenting with with kind of anything your kid is like performing or you know i'll call sports performative for now but you know anything where they're doing something like that it's like they could get better they could fine-tune whatever that is tricky and then and then laying over your experience about the whole thing makes it infinitely harder.

58:53Jon McLaughlin:Yeah. And I mean, my experience, both with sports and with music, is I wanted to, I mean, I grew up playing piano as long as I can remember and swimming almost as long as I can remember. And both of which I wanted to quit all the time. See, that's a great example. I mean, swimming is the worst sport. Yeah. There is hardly any redemptive qualities to it. Also, you could die at any moment. Yeah. It's the worst. And it's like, in general, at my high school, I'll just say, no one cared about swimming. No one came to the swim meets. Unless it's, if there's some girl in the stands, it's someone's girlfriend.

59:41Jon McLaughlin:And she doesn't want to be there. Yeah. She's been trying to break up with that guy forever. Yes. and he just can't read the note because it's soaking wet. She throws it at him. Anyway. So there's so much, like 99 % with swimming and it definitely was true with piano in terms of like classical piano. 99.999 % of it is unseen grind. Yeah. Unseen grind. And the grind is not celebrated. Like the performance that happens at the end of the year recital or, you know, you make it to state, that is 0.1 % of the experience. So for me, I definitely, I lean, I don't know if my, then my decisions maybe lean more toward Annie, but I definitely feel how Annie feels.

1:00:42Jon McLaughlin:just in that I kind of have it ingrained in me that like, if you're going to be good, if you want to do it, what comes with it is you're looking at 0.1%. You probably want to do this thing because of the thing you saw. That thing you saw is 0.0001 % of the experience. So you got to make friends with the fact that, hey, if you want to play this song, that's really well said yeah you gotta just sit there and play it painstakingly over and over and over and with my experience i i wanted to quit i wanted to quit i wanted to quit my parents somehow kept me in the mix and what i what i take away from you know the swimming it's like well i was never gonna be a professional swimmer i was not gonna even probably swim in college but what i take away from it is just the acceptance of a daily grind.

1:01:45Jon McLaughlin:Yeah, that's really good. Getting up every day and doing something that you actively don't want to do. Yeah. Well, you know what? To compliment you, I mean, I think of all of my friends, you're in like that top tier of my friends who have discipline and you have disciplines that you do every day. and there's no doubt that those things inform your ability to do that do you mean like my childhood yeah yeah just kind of like you said so eloquently like this is this is part of this is the shadow part of the great thing that i that i get from doing it it's just putting in the work and i do wonder be interesting to ask your mom and dad like if they saw some ability especially with with uh piano if they saw something early enough on they're like we're just gonna hedge our bets because he's got an ability to do this that yes he's probably not going to love this now but i just have this feeling he'll be glad that we made him do this because there is such a ability for this that we're just going to lean in and be like i know bud but just let's get in the car we got to drive down there to you know to lessons and you're like but there's enough of something they're going but goodness gracious like look at him play i mean how would you not you know stewarding something in your kid as a parent where you're like but look at how well they do that you know like they have an ability that not the kid most kids don't have and so stewarding it as a parent would be that we're just going to kind of lean in on this and goodness knows it paid off i mean there's no other example no other skills so thanks mom and dad but when you get in a pool you can see it you know i've seen you in a pool and it's really profound yeah Yeah.

1:03:30Jon McLaughlin:And thankfully that's been income generating for my family and I. But I think like, I think that's the part where Annie, I'm so glad she, she has that perspective. She was the same with sports. You know, she grew up incredibly disciplined about her sports and obviously she was really good at it. So that encourages that, you know what I mean? But she is absolutely like you. She's like, look, when you decide to do something, you put in the shift like that that is the job that's the job that's most of the job that's most of the job it's interesting i guess it makes sense that you would fall where you would fall in comparison with annie and all that because you know to oversimplify it you that was not your experience growing up right right like you came into music late i mean now i would say and i've said this on here before you have a a high level of work ethic in terms of getting back here to your studio again through the gardens and the guard and gorgeous all that kind of and the lake that you gotta but you've got the chopper that takes you um and just like working like you are you you have a high level of work ethic in your adult life so it's interesting because it wasn't like your upbringing right was this grind grind grind grind grind the grind happened after you already started doing it yeah kind of yeah you know what i mean so mine's kind of a cheat code too because i enjoy it so much i think it'd be it'd be different because you know every now and then that always means a lot i mean it's funny sitting with words yesterday for lunch he brought that up and he's always so kind to talk about that when we talk about writing and stuff he's like, man, I just think, he's like, I'm always so inspired by how much you write.

1:05:19But what I always want to say is like, but you don't understand how much I enjoy it. I mean, it gives me so much life. So I think where I struggle is with things that are grinded. You're not experiencing it the same. Yes, that's right. Where you're doing something you don't want to do. No, I'm not sitting down like having to learn guitar parts that I'm like, I know this is good for me. It gets my fingers and I learn the fretboard better. Like I don't have a great amount of resolution for those kind of things where Annie is like, I think like you, she's prodigiously good at that. It's one of the things that I value so much in our relationship and just knowing her and her being, you know, in our family is that she can really sit with our kids and be like, look, you just got to put your head down.

1:06:00This is what we do where I can be a little more like, well, are you enjoying it? Yeah. You know, and I think both are valuable. I do. But I think where she has value is, you know, being able, you know, I think as we, as we walk through that with our kids is kind of going, are, are, do they have little, are we seeing ability that's worth us then saying, Hey, you know, this is going to be tough, but it's worth doing. And I think, I think both are really valuable, but you're right. I mean, I didn't, you know, sports, I played recreationally growing up. I enjoyed it, but I enjoyed the communal part of it so much more that it did the actual yeah athletic piece um though i you know and i was decent enough that i would make the team and whatever but it was just to me it was like that's where my homies were and i just wanted to hang out in the dugout or whatever but um but which is weird because most football games didn't have a dugout but i was there anyway just waiting always waiting um just far enough away yeah but but you make a great point and i think you know i do think all that to say it is a it is an interesting thing navigating with kids when to push when you know when to kind of go this is worth us doing the extra work and then also going, you know, and I think, you know, it's what Andy and I have done.

1:07:09This is, this was kind of, this is sort of how we couched the conversation at sort of the end of it. We were talking about this with our kids was, you know, we each have these experience that so obviously color how we think about it, you know, and, and where mine, you know, I wasn't a kind of kid where it was like we had to get out in the backyard and let's get some throws in. Like with my brother, who's a phenomenal athlete. I mean, he's a scratch golfer. Brad put in the hard yards. But he also loved it. But like you, he didn't want to go to golf. He grew up playing baseball too. But he just knew this is what you had to do.

1:07:54But that was not my experience. And so I have such a different way of viewing it. And also what's tricky with me is that kind of like it all works out. I know. So it's hard.

1:08:04Jon McLaughlin:Are you the example that should be avoided?

1:08:13When I talk to Andy, I feel like that is always the cloud that hangs over our conversation. She can point to it at any moment. We're not going to use you as the example.

1:08:25Jon McLaughlin:archetype yeah the archetype but yeah i mean i i think in general i guess like you want your kids to to have an uh an appetite and that's not the right word no i like that an ability that like hey life a lot of life is going to be doing things that you don't necessarily want to do that's that's a key element of life if you're if you're going to move through the world avoiding that, I think it's going to be tough for you and the people around you probably. But I don't know. You could avoid pain and it could all work out.

1:09:08Jon McLaughlin:What a way to end it.

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