Emerson Hart: The Last Generation of Rock

32:09And to this day, if I give somebody a hug and they're wearing a leather jacket and it has a little bit of smoke, I immediately get this sensory memory of being a kid hugging my dad. Now see, that's a real, that's like a beautiful thing. I mean, that's... But to your point, that's the height of it. That's it. Yeah, like it doesn't go... If I went and bought a pack of cigarettes and ate the whole pack to get more of that memory, it would just be awful. Isn't it amazing? I know it's kind of off topic, but how strong our olfactory recall for memory is. I mean, I can walk in a basement and get that smell, and I'm like, oh, I'm six years old at my grandparents' mansion in Ohio, and I can smell the coal dust in the ground.

33:00It's such a strong thing. or you'd be walking down the street and you'd be like, there goes my first girlfriend. I can smell her walking by and then your wife looks at you and you're like, I was thinking about something else. I don't know what you're talking about.

33:14Or you're in a relationship, like in your marriage, and you'd be like, do you like this perfume? You'd be like, no, don't buy that. Yeah, don't buy that one. No, no, no. It's not going to work for us. Shelly, what did I say, Shelly? What? No, I don't like it. Annie, sorry. Speaking of smoking on planes, I don't know if you're going someplace. Can we just talk about the 90s for a second? Yes, yes. I had this in my notes. I wanted to start with talking about the 90s a bit. When I signed my first record deal and was doing the whole radio tour, for those who don't know, you make a record, you pick a single, and then for the next 18 months, you live in radio stations.

33:54Oh, yeah. Going to radio stations, multiple radio stations a day, and everybody, every program director, every DJ, all they talked about was the glory days of the 90s. I mean, for them, it was like, if you could somehow have been in the music business in the 90s, that was when it was just a string of green lights for everyone. And then, I don't know, maybe Napster happened and then things started to fall apart in their eyes. And then here you are, you were like top. I mean, not only were you a part of the 90s, you were like, you know, defining a sound in the 90s. What was the... When you think of the 90s now, what are some of the immediate sort of things that come back to you, aside from smoking on planes?

34:47Yeah. Well, honestly, no cell phones. so there was you used to be able to and I'm not trying to tie cigarettes back in here but I would get out of sound check and I would go sit and just look at the river and smoke a cigarette and not have my face buried in my phone nobody was able to get in touch with me although cell phones were great in the way that everybody stopped getting the flu all the time from truck stop phones that we all had to use so when somebody would be like and then the next morning everybody's in bed like like you know charlie buckett's grandpa joe like shaking in your pajamas but uh so i miss i miss that distraction being taken away from the 90s yeah uh i miss the kind of gatekeepers that the 90s had to a certain extent radio programmers and people that were just, man, were just way cooler and just kind of were able to navigate loud, this is what it is, not to throw out the Lester Bangs of the world, but those guys.

35:59And I think that there were quite a few of those people coming up early in my career, having lunch with Ahmet Erdgen and listening to stories about Led Zeppelin and just guys like that. that was everybody in the 90s was it the same experience that i had were like were all of them talking about the 80s you know what i mean yeah no i don't think so because i think the 80s really got brushed because of hair bands because of stuff that just wasn't great at least in the 90s we were all talking about the 70s yeah yeah yeah and that you know scott wyland from scp man he wanted to be david bowie like that was his whole thing and man he's one of the greatest front man i've ever seen perform like still to this day like he was that was such a loss when he died one of my favorite la moments and this was so random remember when hodges would host those things at his house that in la right right this song and everything um david and i text that day I was in LA and he's like dude come to one and I was it's he's like it's tonight so I show up and uh Scott randomly got up and played a couple songs and it was just like one of my favorite moments of my life he did plush and then they did maybe like a newer tune but I was just like what a talent and to be you know it was David's house you know so it's in the living room I know 50 of us in there it was such a he had a great space out there really did have a great space I I mean, I'm glad I convinced him to come to Nashville, but yeah.

37:34But I mean, Scott, when Scott was on top of his game. Jeez Louise. He was like an engine that ran on lightning. I mean, it was insane to watch. He would be sick as a dog backstage in the shows that we did together over the years in the 90s. You know, he would just be like, have a hoodie on, be tired. and then he would come out on stage like he was on fire. I mean, just out like a snake, like sliding. And we would just sit there being like, wow, that's what a rock star is. That's what it is. And I knew I would never be that because I'm just not that guy. Yeah, right, right, right. But I had such enormous respect for it.

38:23So 90s, I think rock stars were able to be rock stars and I'm not excusing bad behavior in there like you know there was a lot of stuff that a lot of people did that was not good and it bit him in the ass appropriately later on down the road but um there just was a certain amount of uh hunter s thompson kind of wild west thing about it that we don't have anymore like who are our hunter s thompson's yeah you are our scott wylands you know what i think about with at that time. And I think it's like, to me, music for so long sort of had a cast of characters, right? And every genre sort of was like, here's who's on stick.

39:09Here's like, who's in the play. And we'll always kind of have the guy that's the lead. And that's going to shuffle through over the years. But that role will always be filled by somebody, the girl that lives next to it, whatever those characters were, you sort of knew like, Oh, that's the band. That's like this. Now that's the guy that's like this. here's the girl and so you kind of knew like that's what they are you know and like tonic was up there for a while you're like oh that's like the melodic but kind of zeppelin leaning great hits okay cool stp is gonna be like the kind of left-leaning what the hell is going on but it's cool and i'm into it and then you know buckley for a minute is up there you're like oh my god here's this but you know whatever they were it was like that's that's and so i know as i'm thinking about as a fan of music i'm like oh there here's all the people you know and i think i just miss I think that's what I miss sometimes the most is that feeling of like, man, it's just, there's so many people on the stage now.

40:03And even in our world, when John and I were coming up with the singer-songwriters, it was like, oh yeah, here's each of those guys and girls and this is what they're doing. And I think, and I'm all for everybody being able to create. That's not at all what I'm saying now. But I think I just, maybe this makes me a dinosaur, I just kind of miss knowing like, oh, I kind of know what's going on because I can kind of see. he's the new this and she's the new that and they're amazing at it and they're the new this band but now it's just so much of it that I'm like I don't even know how to parse out what's what anymore you know yeah and maybe people in the 90s felt the way about the 80s whatever you know I don't think there's anything new I don't think we did I think we just all were just trying to survive and do our thing and do it the best way we could do it and you know we had a blast doing it yeah i feel so fortunate that i was the last generation of rock bands that could sell records yeah yeah do that thing and yeah and you know how lucky are we but i will say this when you talk about the landscape and changing like the first time i saw you was at Soil Dove in Denver.

41:17I think we did a show. It was a radio show. I think it was. Yeah, I remember that. And I immediately loved how connected you were to your instrument, how you were connected to your voice. You could tell the story through the song. And at that point, I was like cigarettes and gasoline. I had released my first solo record. And that was inspirational to me, which was a landscape change for me coming from a band to doing that thing. And it was the same with you and i always viewed you guys you weren't uh in the world of like scrappy young just kind of like how we're going to do a house party man like you were so much and i was just like oh oh that's how do you make that work do we call my manager to make that work and you're just like no man just go do it you know it's like okay you know so you call your manager should i call your manager yeah well you know what i'm saying like that it's a different thing so yeah gorilla yeah So I was, even though, yeah, in the 90s, it was that thing.

42:11But then in the 2000s, it became something else, but was still cool. What was it like when you think about, I mean, y 'all's records. I mean, I forgot to intro this, but one of my favorite nights in Nashville, genuinely, was they let me put a round together for Tin Pan South. And I was like, okay, I just know, I don't know who the fourth is going to be, but it has to be Kevin and it has to be Emerson. because this is selfish Dave night, and I don't care. This is who's going to be in the round. And I just remember we did it at the old listening room, packed show, packed house, and Charles, remember, was the four of Kelly.

42:46I remember that. We had a vest off. We were both wearing vests. We were both wearing a vest! I can't believe you remember that. But there's a picture that I've forever cherished because somebody took it that night, and it's me playing, and it's just perfect because Kevin is leaning in, and you're leaning in, and I'm playing. and it's like two of my idols are in this round with me and i just remember that night being like if nothing comes of my career but that i get to be in a round with these guys who are playing songs that i grew up on who like who are a huge part of my infrastructure musically you know and so i think it's it's it's such a when i think about and i mean you're playing i've just loved I've loved your music for so long.

43:29When you have a song, so I like it all, but when you have a song, like If You Can Only See, what is it like riding the momentum of that? Because again, I think it's the most played song. Is it 97? 96 and 97. I mean, that is crazy. It's nuts. What is that like? You know, I don't remember some of it. I don't remember some of it. Just from sheer exhaustion, and we joke about that, that first record. I was only home for 20 days in two and a half years. Oh my gosh. Say that again. I was home for 20 days in two and a half years. That's crazy. Holy two and a half years? Yeah, and I remember being in...

44:12Emerson. We were shooting, this is a, I'll try to make it as short as possible, but it's connected to If You Can Only See because we were riding on the success of that. Yeah. So we're two and change in on touring. Went from Australia. We did two weeks in Australia. And then we flew to France. And we were going to do a week of shows in Paris. In a club called Chesterfields, which was a lovely place. That's the least French name I can possibly think of. And if you say it, Chesterfields. Chesterfields. Tonic. It's like, Los Estados Unidos. Y galut. Tonic. Coca-Cola. Y tonic. Y Toby Keith. Yeah. so we flew to Paris to do this week of shows we were still riding on if you can only see this is two years in jeez louise and I had gotten a really bad flu I was really sick and the next we had to shoot a video for Soldier's Daughter because that was going to be the next European single what a song thank you what a song and so we we go we do these shows in Paris I'm getting I keep getting sicker and more sick and more sick and more sick.

45:24Being sick on the road is the worst. And they just keep giving me shots, keep giving me shots, like trying to keep me going. No, like, you know, whatever kind of drug it was, they were giving me the, I called it the Pink Floyd moment, like at the end there. And I was just exhausted, but my body just was not able to catch up and recuperate. So we're going to go to London the next morning to shoot a video for Soldier's Daughter. and so we are walking back from the club i am so ill out of it there's like i remember this horrible car crash we weren't in it and like walking back to the hotel going to london on the channel the next morning we realized the car crash we had seen was princess diana's car crash no emerson yeah so we were walking over that bridge to get back to the hotel we had no idea it was four in the morning three in the morning we were you are kidding me no so we get off on the train in london what time had that crash happened it was three in the morning it was you mean y 'all literally did you see the car no we had just seen it have we smell the smoke we're it's over a bridge like you walk over the bridge that is one of the craziest things i've ever heard yeah so we get to london the next morning and it is just horrifying people crying in the streets flowers everywhere confusion kevin because of the show y 'all show well yeah i mean obviously yeah so kevin is a typical show for that's just another thursday night for time look morrissey has his fans we have ours and thinking of sad sex so yeah exactly uh so we get to the video shoot i'm like is this even happening like are we doing this is that big of a deal kevin codley uh from codley and cream was the director on the video and he was like of course you know he was a very anti-Diana person.

47:16And so we are just around all this sadness and we finished the video shoot. I went back to the hotel room and I looked in the mirror and I didn't know who I was. My body just went you're done. Wow. And I couldn't leave the room. I didn't want to put clothes on. I could not function and eventually they sent somebody up and did you have a show that night or was it just in London of only three shows I've ever cancelled in my career it was we were supposed to go to Sweden to do a show the next morning and I could not I was literally just couldn't function so I don't even remember what happened I remember being getting more medicine they put me on a plane and I woke up in Los Angeles in my bed in a house that I had bought that I had probably been in once.

48:17Jeez. Lily, you just got there. I just appeared there. I don't remember the flight. I don't remember anything. And I had been asleep for three days. That is crazy. No idea. I had no memory of it whatsoever. My girlfriend at the time was like, you got to take a break. Yeah. Or you're going to die. Yeah. So when you think back during that time, I mean, louise 90s oh my god that's kind of like you know it reminds me it's like it's sort of like a tale as old as time when someone has so much success you know you just like you drive it into the ground as much as you can until something like whatever version of that happens where you look at yourself in the mirror and your body's just like we're done well like when you think back at that time not not at all to like place blame or whatever but are you like was i the driver of that what was the label the driver of that you know what i mean like i think it was a bad marriage on both parts i mean i think the label had no concern about my mental health zero concerned about it and i was just became a machine of must win like looking sideways why is this happening why are we not getting this why is it me me me me me me listen everybody new years is around the corner and the new year is always a chance to start afresh it gives us that feeling of like hope and energy and like you're gonna you're gonna do that thing that you were planning on doing you're gonna start that business or whatever and then you're like what how do i even get started what's the first how do i set up a website how do i take payments all that kind of stuff there's it can be overwhelming but here's how you do it you go to shopify here's the thing shopify gives you everything you need to sell online and in person you get all the tools to easily build your dream store choose from hundreds of beautiful templates that you can customize to match your brand and hey if millions of entrepreneurs have already made this leap you can do it too Setup is so fast and easy with Shopify's built-in AI tools that write product descriptions and headlines, email, and social campaigns too.

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53:13And what was the motivation? Was it like because you felt like this is our lightning in a bottle, if we say no to any opportunity, it's going to go away? It's going to go away immediately. Yeah. This is your only chance, kid. Yeah. Wow. This is your only chance. And is that or is that not our programming? Yeah. Right. It's in us, especially as artists. It's like, nope, this is it. This is what you get. Yeah. And so if you're all of a sudden on this train, you can't say no. and that cost a lot of people their lives yeah i'm just i'm grateful that i didn't have a scorching drug addiction i would have died there's no way i would have survived how long did it take you so you have these three days where you sleep can do you remember kind of like was it like a month was it like two weeks five days like how long before you kind of feel like i think i'm maybe a little bit of myself again.

54:12No, I have no memory of that. That whole couple months of my life is a couple of months. It's a total dust show. Like I don't, I don't remember most of it. Uh, I just remember having to start working on after it was probably a couple months. And then the label was like, Hey, you kind of got to get back to work. Like, you know, I had already had sugar in the works. So I think it was probably halfway through writing that. What a song. Thank you. We could do a whole podcast on that song. But we, yeah, so, you know, we just, I got healthy as I could and pressed on. And, you know, and I made the good choice to go make a record in New Orleans.

54:53You know, there's no partying in New Orleans. So I went down there and. Wait, who did y 'all do that with? It's quiet. Was that Bob Rock y 'all did that with? No, that was self-produced, that one. Oh, y 'all did? I didn't know that. Yeah, Andy Wallace mixed it. Oh, who did Grace. Oh, geez, come on. So what was the re-approach like? Or what was the mentality when you kind of like got back on the train? Were you like, I'm just going to get back on this train? Or were you like, we got to rearrange our approach or what? I got back on the train with the very specific thought in my brain that I needed to just remain healthy.

55:29Wow. Eat better. Try to sleep when you can. I mean now I sleep like you know I get on a plane I wear a mask not because of germs I wear a mask because my mouth is open within five minutes I'm like you know I'm like these poor people sitting next to me you've converted your bedroom into what looks like a plane because you sleep better pretty much and it's like an old 747 which is weird because there's like you know they bring like a whole thing of meat down in the middle and she's wearing a mini skirt or cigarettes I've had this dream before yeah we were there we had cocktails well and you had like that that fear of like i cannot say no to anything which i still had you yeah what was it like now you wake up in la and your body has said no for you right and i also that was right about the time where i decided to move to nashville oh wow really i was like i have to get out of los angeles wow like that was part of the reason And like when I lived in New York City growing up where I grew up, I picked up some bad party habits.

56:35And I was like, I got to leave New York. Yeah. You know, and that was a defining moment in my life. So I went to L.A. I was in L.A. for 10 years. I had a nervous breakdown. Too much partying, whatever it was, but not like inappropriate partying. And then I was like, no, I have to change my life and, you know, and move to Nashville. And everything, I mean, you remember what Nashville was in 2000. It was like Mayberry. yeah yeah it was and it was awesome yeah do you think nashville still has that um you know some semblance of that reputation with comparison to la you think there are people still leaving la being like i need to go someplace quieter and simpler i think so i mean i think people leaving la right now just because it's just broken like la is so broken right now just the way that everything operates out there and like stores are boarded up.

57:29Like it makes, it hurts my heart cause I love Los Angeles. It was such a huge part of my, my youth. And when I drive there, I went out there to do a, a rehearsal for this ERH stuff. And like some of my favorite bars are just like the stores next to them are boarded up. And I'm like, what on Fairfax? Like, yeah, it's like, that's awful. But yeah, I think it still holds that. And Nashville still has its, my daughter got a flat tire the other day she called me on her way to school at six in the morning and she was leaving the house and she said dad i got a flat tire and it's raining and you're like can you come help me change it and i was like absolutely i'll get you there i'll make sure you get on your way and it was real close to the house but so i pull up and i put my hazards on and within five minutes like one old timer from this house and another guy from this house came out i was like y 'all okay do you need help that's where nashville still right yeah yeah yeah because there's just a certain amount of social um peanut butter that keeps that sandwich always together you know what i'm saying it's like of course those guys were like are you emerson you know i got a chorus i've been working on never been able to finish yeah i'm not much of a pitch guy but uh my brother used to work with ricky van shelton he did some of his lighting for two of his shows down in mississippi and so i don't know if you remember him uh i don't know if you got my tape or not but uh so this is so so now you know you've been here 25 years watch me do this transition and if you if you so now you have these you have 18 year old daughter you have these two five and unders.

59:13I mean, what is that like? Because here's what's crazy. I hadn't seen you in a minute. And the next thing I know, on social media, you have these kids. It's true. I feel like I missed something in there. The first thing I think of when I think of, you know, we have friends of ours that are around our age having kids now. I immediately just think, the listener can't see, but I'm standing up and like slightly bending over like this. Oh, yeah. You're going to be in this position for the next, like, three years. A lot of lumbar action. Yeah. That's the first thing I think of. A lot of lower back. A lot of lower back.

59:50And I think that's fair to think that way. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Look, I wouldn't change it. for anything like i love being a dad yeah it my dad was not great and so the fact that i've been given this chance in life to do it right is such a blessing and a gift. And, you know, if I had sold 12 million records, I'd have as many kids as I wanted. Like I love kids. I love all that is to say, yeah, I'm real tired, man. I mean, like I am, I'm tired. And that's just the nature of, that's just the nature of it. And it also is an interesting thing in the way that when I bring my son, you know, to either one of my sons, like one's just starting kindergarten to school.

1:00:39And like, you know, a lot of these moms and dads, they're younger folks. And I'm walking in and I'm like, no, I'm not Pawpaw. Yeah, yeah. These are my kids. You know, granted, I don't look like I'm 80, but. Yeah, yeah. But so I have to also navigate that social thing at parties. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, when you have somebody come out to a birthday party for your kids. And they're all like, da-da-da-da. They're like, oh, wait, what do you do for, oh, wait, are you? Oh, man, my mom. There it is. There it is. There it is. Put your finger on your nose. There it is. There it is. And that's fine, you know.

1:01:17And some of it's like that. That's a rare occurrence. But when it does happen, I always laugh at it. My wife and I chuckle about it. Yeah. But it really does, you know, people are like, it'll keep you young. And it kind of really does. For sure, yeah. I stay super active. And I just love watching the way their brains operate. And boys being different, because I had a whole 18-year run with my daughter, how I could sit her down and we'd be talking about whatever, and she'd color for two hours. Yeah. And my son's like, you know, walking into the room with two knives, being like, where did you find these?

1:01:59Like, what are you doing? You know, he has a tomato in his mouth and two sharp knives. I'm like, how did this happen? They were like locked away. But boys are just. I'm pretty sure that's how wars started in Italy in like the 1300s. It's the exact same scene. They're sold tomato based. No, I'm serious. My youngest, my three-year-old will literally eat a tomato like an apple. Wow. He'll grab it and just start eating it and just whatever he's wearing. It's messy. And I can leave the room to take the stuff from the washer and put it into the dryer. This is a 45 second to under. It's an under a minute.

1:02:34Yeah. task and I come back and the room is on fire. Yeah. Like, I mean, literally it can happen that fast. And you have two of them. Yeah. Two of them. And thankfully one is like a hockey player, my youngest one. And the other one is like David Bowie. So real kind of lithe and doesn't like, I'm not hungry. I'll just have some air. And then, and then my youngest one is like, I don't understand. I will eat your shoe if you do not give me, you know, it doesn't matter. that is such a good summation this person well how are you alive like I look and I'm like you're such a beautiful child and you're what are you running on how is this happening tell me this I mean this is such low hanging fruit questions but like what is the difference in Emerson you know 18 years ago and how he parented to now and how you think about parenting I think I really understand the importance of in the moment presence, which I don't think I was still, you know, in my late thirties being with career and stuff like that.

1:03:44And like going to Iraq during the war to play for the troops, like stuff I would have never done. I would never do that now. I just wouldn't do it. And I have a great relationship with my daughter. She's one of my best friends. I'm still her dad. Don't get me wrong. We don't always agree, but this is the thing that I love. I love being in the moment, and I get caught. I have to catch myself, and it's the damn phones again. It's like I'll pick it up, and I'll start reading something, and my son's talking to me, and I'm realizing, what are you doing? Put your phone down. This is going to be gone in three minutes.

1:04:22So that way I do appreciate that. I think Emerson, old dad Emerson to new old dad Emerson is understanding that I really have to just always be present in that moment. And that's great. And because my wife's work, like, you know, she'll work for on and then be off for a week. And, you know, so I'm doing a lot of dad stuff. Yeah. Man, it's great. It is great. It's exhausting, but it's so great that I get to do that. Do you find yourself worrying about the same things? That's a great question. That you did back on that first round? No, I don't. Because I think a lot of the things I used to worry about just didn't happen.

1:05:10Yeah. God, that's true. I give a little bit longer leash with my boys now about stuff. My wife would be like, hey, you shouldn't do that. I was like, no, he's not unsafe. Let him figure it out. Yeah. Because I was always a super helper. Like, let me help you. Let me help you. You know, let me help you. You know, and now I've really with them, I just don't worry about it. I just let things kind of come and fall as they may. Not unsafe. Don't get me wrong. I don't, you know, I'm not like, here, take these binoculars. Go find the man in the sun. Like, I'm not, I'm not that bad. But it's, you know, I'm just trying to be, I'm a little calmer.

1:05:54Things don't upset me as much anymore. The only thing that upsets me that I cannot seem to get past, and this is my Achilles heel, is the letting them do it themselves when it comes to car seats or stuff like that where it's raining. And I'm standing there and he's like, no, let me do it myself. And I'm like, okay. just getting drenched just sitting there letting figure it out deep breaths and that's what it is it's like okay well yeah that's all you can do this is but when I don't have my phone we're outside collecting sticks we're building a fire you know I've got like six acres and a nice old house and and we're not saying anything I just hear them laughing and they're just picking stuff up and you know just pushing each other down I think if we are lucky enough when we leave this planet to have these moments, I always think about those moments we have with our children.

1:06:55What are gonna be our top five things that we think about before we leave? Yeah. If that's what that is, like those peaceful moments, yeah, worth every bit of it. Amen. 100%. What does it look like now with the boys and your job? How do you, where are you now? how those things intersect and how you think about them. Well, I think Benjamin thinks I fly airplanes for a living. I'm not sure how. I think it's just sheerly because he's like, no, daddy's got to get on the airplane because on the weekends I go on the airplane. And he doesn't really understand that. So he'll see pictures of airplanes and be like, is that you?

1:07:33And I'm like, no, not me. If I keep eating, I will be that big, but that's not me. Liam is starting to grasp a little bit more about what I do for a living only from if a song comes on the radio and I'll you know Heather will be like oh that's daddy and he'll be like you do this for a living? He's like how do you do that and fly planes? Right you're a terrible pilot you only fly once a week you know so I think that that'll be interesting and they've been they've seen me on stage Ben like I got up with Kevin at Pilgrimage a couple weeks ago, whenever that was. And Ben kind of looked at me doing it, and I looked at his face.

1:08:16He was like, oh, wait, what is he singing? Because we love to sing in the car. It's all the greatest hits. And he just kind of looked at me like, oh, wait, maybe he isn't a pilot. Maybe this is something else that kind of – He's a song pilot. Yeah, he's a song navigating the song. 30 ,000 feet above any good ideas. so what you know it's it's cool it's cool i don't if they want to do that as a job you know we'll see the the proof is in the pudding we'll see what happens but uh i'm all about the thing i think the thing i got most excited about this past month it sounds terrible was like home depot is offering and i know this is not a home depot endorsing i'm already in i'm interested they uh they are endorsing um or uh you can come there on the weekends and get certified in hvac plumbing and electrical what what you can get a state certification it costs you no money and i was like wow heck i got some weekends free here and there yeah but like is that the future i think i always tell heather you know my wife is extremely educated you know and i like i draw great pictures in my house do you know how many ways you can shape a g chord yeah i mean really i changed and the i'm glad you saved that guy's life but let's really get to the meat of it um but like our children like if my sons want to be plumbers yeah i'm all in yeah they want to be electricians i'm all in that's right they want to play music that's fine i'll support it as long as they're happy you know i don't want those rules on them but it it uh i've gone off topic What was your relationship like?

1:10:05I guess this would more be with your daughter because your sons are so young and they're just starting. The older one's just getting into kindergarten. But I find for me, I mean for all three of us, we could have flunked every class growing up. It wouldn't have changed the trajectory probably of our careers. No one's checked my transcript ever. So with my daughters, they're in seventh and fifth now. I find it's an interesting sort of dynamic with grades and with school and academics because there's a part of me that sort of just snaps to like, well, you get through it and it doesn't really matter.

1:10:45And then we have, you know, friends of ours who, you know, have real jobs and real degrees that actually meant something, you know. and they're like they're on their kids and they maybe went to a different school for the academic track and there's part of me that's like i don't want to drop the ball on this just because i'm too myopically thinking about my own experience and then when my daughters you know get rejected from every community college they applied for and they're like why didn't you tell us to study more or whatever, you know what I mean? What was your angle on that? I mean, I think with Lucy, her mom was always real zoning.

1:11:30She did public. She went to Julia Green, and now she's going to graduate from Hume Fog this year, which is the number one school in the state of Tennessee. Incredible. It's public downtown. Great school. We've always been big fans of public school systems. I just feel like it is what we should be focused on putting our money into and supporting whatever the taxes. I don't care. It just, that's important. But I think that, you know, I think your child lets you know, right? I mean, like they let you know what, what they're going to do. And it becomes pretty obvious by 15, 16. But I will say this.

1:12:11most of my friends who are much wealthier than me are just like, dude, until freshman, sophomore year in high school, it does not matter. Don't spend$385 ,000 on an education. Yes. It won't. All you're doing is just setting them up to be, if, if it's your goal that they run in that friend group. Yeah. Then that's your goal. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I get that. Like that's your goal. I don't like that goal because I grew up around a lot of those kids who were just not good people. Just because they were loaded didn't make them good people, man. Yeah. It is funny you say that, John, because I definitely feel the same with our kids in education.

1:12:58I am so, I undervalue it so much because I think I'm like, one, I get a little too like, I can get a little too like God's will is going to happen no matter what. Really, because I look at my life and I'm like, I should not be doing this. There's nothing about my life that you would have read if my life is a movie and you're watching Dave Barnes up until 15. You're like, oh, he's going to be like a youth minister somewhere. And then all of a sudden God's like, mwahaha. Right. guitar you know and scene and so i just tend to be like man god has got this way of getting us where we need to be and it's really fun and crazy and so sure to school it mattered and being in the context of people in college was huge because that's where i kind of started getting into music and all that kind of stuff but again like i can't point to really any academic thing that got me to where i am right whereas annie thank god and i'm sure heather's like stupid like thank god that she is like no Dave you can't that's not no no no no right no that's the balance they need to do their homework yeah they should study and be good in school you don't end up being a trauma surgeon at Vanderbilt exactly just kind of or a pharmacist or anything so it's like I am so thankful because I I get mad at myself at how much like I figured out what's it matter like just it'll be fun now high school obviously that's a different thing but as you know with Lucy it's like you know that's where grades start to really matter because if they wanted to college the transcripts really matters.

1:14:24But I can really struggle with being the one who just wildly undervalues those things because I'm like, look at me, babe. She checked out my shack. I don't know what the capital of chili is. Chili fries. I don't, yeah. I'll try to do my best to make sure that my children can be good people. yeah right and uh first and foremost my my wife being a nurse practitioner educated uh and and a brainiac and loves it like really loves it yeah she is that balance that she is that balance i will be the other side of it which is like how does it make you feel yeah no yeah are you excited about it and i but isn't that i mean isn't that the balance of what how we're designed i mean i I think that's exactly right.

1:15:23And that's okay. And that's why we get married. That's why we have children. That's why we, you know, do these things is have that balance. And I hope that I can, my smarts in certain ways, I hope I can put that to my children. Yeah. Yeah. And my wife's smarts will definitely probably benefit them better. Like, you know, fast forward to one of your boys, like 20 years from now, somewhere. He's like, sorry, Do you know why they recorded the drum track that way? This is a trip. So they didn't have the mics they needed. And you're up in Evan smiling. Look, look. He listened. I did a good thing, right?

1:16:05That's great. Okay, Daddy. You can turn the channel for him if you'd want. Oh, my gosh. Okay. So before we release you to the Wild, we have a lightning round, by the way. You need to buckle up for that. Okay. Tell us, because you have shows coming up with Ezra Ahart. I do. You have 30 shows. 30 shows so this is the new is this kind of the new thing that's happening we want to push to make everybody know I mean sure yeah I mean I think it's it's just one more thing that is fun to do in my career and Mark McGrath from Sugar Ray Kevin Griffin from The Nasrug just legends but all of us friends for many years but never really like kind of we got to a point where it's like let's do some fun corporate stuff like where it's just 75 minutes of all of our hits and songs in the 90s that our bands would never let us play.

1:16:52Yeah. I mean, pretty much. And like, so we would just, we go out there and we do that. I mean, you'll hear tub thumping. Like we'll do it because it's fun. It's a lager drink. Yeah. Just to do it. Oh yeah. Because why not? And everybody has a good time. So we just thought, you know, look, it's the, if we're going to do this in the way that it's, I don't like to use it with like hard ticket, but like in that way, like go out and do it as the brand, as we slowly build this thing, the, you know, The year 2000s damn Yankees is kind of what it is in the way that if anybody remembers that reference, you can get your walker.

1:17:28All I can think of is, can you date me? I think we'll stick to the tone that sold 16 million records. Gosh, please. So we wanted to do something during the holidays because that's a downtime for everybody. Yeah. We're not out there doing crushing casino work. so we're just gonna do some of our favorite Christmas stuff in there we're gonna have some trees on stage it's gonna be telling stories but it's it's 75 to 90 minutes of of hits from the 90s that we have either written or that we love I love it which the three of y 'all that's a lot of those yeah that's a lot yeah I mean Mark alone just what I've learned in my friendship and brotherhood with Mark like he is he is such an amazingly intelligent caring guy and one hell of a dad as well yeah side note that's great you need to get him on because like his his being a parent and because he was kind of a parent later in life too and he's such a great dad and just focused on his people really loyal um loving fun but also you know king of the fishbowl like we can't go anywhere we walk in an airport and he's just like Like, here comes everybody coming over to see Mark McGrath.

1:18:48And in the 90s, like, you're my, you know, I was with my mom and you were like. It's always something. And Mark just gracefully just embraces. One of the funniest things, I have such a specific memory about this. He was on, I think, MTV or VH1 did a show where it was like a music trivia show. Rock and Roll Jeopardy. Rock and Roll Jeopardy. Is that what it was? It's like five years champs. Five-year champ, nothing he doesn't know. Edwin was on the show, and I will never forget this quote. Mark, I think, answered every question. And Edwin at one point turns to him and he says, how am I supposed to compete with him?

1:19:29He's got the GNP of Brazil up here. I mean, he had like some insane amount of money. And that was not, I don't think at that point that wasn't sober. That wasn't sober, Edwin, which was a totally different. I mean, but it's just like, I think that was one of the things that I love sort of learning about Mark is how smart he is. Because I think it's easy to see Sugar Ray in a video and think like, oh, I know how these guys are. It's a party band. It's a party band. But then you realize like, God, this guy's insanely articulate and very smart. It's an encyclopedia of music. Wicked smart. I mean, I can be like, I can call out a record and he'll be like, nope, you're wrong.

1:20:08That was not the producer. The producer on that record was blah, blah, blah. So I'm like, okay, Rain Man. He pulls it. He runs down to the basement, comes right back up, and he's like, here it is. He shows it to you, puts it right in your face. And he's right every time. I've never seen him be real. He would be great in those trivia nights at a pub or something. Oh, my God. Just crush. You'd make a fortune. Yeah. You'd make a fortune if you bet on that guy. I mean, he always does it. But all that is to say, we do it because it is an absolute joy. That's so fun. I love that. And like we were talking about earlier, at our age, man, if it doesn't give you joy.

1:20:48Amen. What are you doing? Amen. I mean, all of us have to make a living playing, you know, we all have to sing for our supper to a certain extent, and we know that. But really, if it's not bringing you joy, don't do it. Yeah. So we go out and we do it because it's fun. And it just helps people kind of reconnect to that fun thing. When you see a guy who's been working in HR for 28 years, and he's just out there in a corporate show, like, burning it, just burning it down, that makes my heart feel so good. Because I'm like, my man, let's do a shot and finish this thing out. This is your night. Let's do this.

1:21:33As you throw it over your shoulder, though. A lot of dead plants all over the country. I've killed so many plants. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Cheers, Anna. Okay, so lightning round. Emerson, buckle up. Dave, I actually don't have it. Do you want to send me the lightning round? I'm just going to do all of them. Okay, I'll start. This is a fan favorite, but it's just too good to not do. You can have dinner. You know it's coming with four people. Alive or dead. Who are they? I would love to have dinner with my father Who died when I was 10 I would love to have dinner with him And just kind of pick his brain Because I don't remember a lot of that So that being my number one choice Number two Everybody probably says it But Abraham Lincoln I would love to know Somebody said Abe The amount of dinners that that guy He's got a full calendar But to see how far he pushed the Constitution and got away with it.

1:22:38Yeah. And also just the amount of toll it took on him as a human being. I would really love to pick his brain. Third, I would love to see what an ass Henry VIII was. Wow. I mean, could you imagine having dinner with that guy? No. He's like, Why are y 'all leading too? Why aren't you bowing? Why aren't I seeing your face? Completely from a child, the way he grew up, being really the last of the tutors, and to watch how he pretty much went against the biggest and only church in the world at that point. I mean, like, just to get that side of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just to get that side of it, I would love to see the birth of the applicant church.

1:23:33I mean, I mean. That's not a five minute conversation. He really wanted to get divorced. I mean, dude, this is like. How bad do you not like your wife? That's like walking up to Putin and spitting in his face. At that point in history, like you couldn't, you'd be dead. You'd fall out of a window to do that as a king. So he'd be my third. And then probably my fourth would be dinner with like one of my ancestors from a long time ago. Like John Alden, who came over on the Mayflower. I would love to sit down with him and say. Wait, that's one of your relatives? Yeah, my family's been here since 1620.

1:24:07Wait, you know they came over on the Mayflower? Yeah, John and Priscilla Alden. You're just dropping that and the princes die. Like it's nothing. Well, I mean, it's not really something I talk about, you know. Hey guys, we're, tonic, quick FYI, just fun fact about me. Had an ancestry on the Mayflower. Here we go. You're like I'm a banjo, banjo. but I would love to see what they endured to raise 13 children all of them to survive which is why there are so many descendants of the Aldens Hemingway the Bush family like all everybody comes from the Aldens like they were the most prolific of that line and on my mother's side I'm also a Warren she was Richard Warren who was also in the Mayflower but geez Louise a lot of people are we just You're like walking America.

1:24:57No, you might be it, and you just don't know. You just got to do the... Pretty sure one of mine swam half of it and then found a piece of lumber, and then God was like, we just got to make the tides work, man. Let's just, here we go. How do you feel about the Bahamas? Good enough. Sounds great. I'm going to need some sunblock. A lot. But yeah, so I think I'd like to sit down and have dinner with them because... That's amazing. What a – there's a certain amount of that that is amazing, but also how their brains work. Like, you know, we weren't so great to witches in the late 1600s in my family.

1:25:35Sure, sure was that. All of that. So, like, being a pilgrim, what did that mean spiritually for you? I mean, we – I know. I mean, my people sat on those – In PA, yeah. Not great. Yeah. Not great. We did not make some good choices. Yeah. Yeah. You know? So, those are my four, probably. That's good. Those are great. Those are very, yeah. Those are the most thoughtful that we've ever had. I was going to say, most articulate, for sure. Well, who else would you dine with? We get a lot of Shaq. No. Mostly Shaq. Lincoln and Shaq. Yeah. Hey, there's a tall theme. Two tall ballers. Yeah, two tall ballers.

1:26:09That's all right. Yeah. Okay, if you could go back to the 90s, I think I remember this one, and be in any other band. you have to go back and be in a different band what was what's the band that you would choose stp 100 yeah wow yeah that was fast yeah 100 because i feel like and you would play what you'd be the front man you'd be the drummer i would be i would be scott yeah i would love to be scott just to play that part yeah um you know what you know what's great y 'all's music is like this too i i randomly did a deep dive on um probably like six months ago where i was like I'm going to just kind of go through that catalog again.

1:26:44And it is one of my favorite things to do as a late 40s artist musician because I just know a lot more about music now. My ear training is a lot better after just having done this for a long time. And there's nothing I love more than listening to music I grew up with and going, whoa, that's a lot more complex than I thought it was. And man, their catalog... One, I think... Here's my quick plug for STV. the individual talent of each of those band members is through the freaking roof their bass player i think beato sat with him and just hearing him be like well you know that song started as a boss bossa nova give me that guitar robert robert's talent level is it's insane it's insane and i and he's like one of my dear friends and you cannot you could hand that you could hand that guy a piece of wood and a string yeah he'd be like oh you know that's so funny you know if you look at Bach this way like he's just but they're two both of the brothers are talented really Robert is the end so I think one it's like you think of the band two the music is just unbelievably great and then obviously Scott and so it's it was fun doing a deep dive on them because I I knew the music but I don't know that I knew it as well as I thought I did what a band what a band and overlooked many ways overlooked during that time because pearl jam and you know that whole scene of of seattle was and it does i'm not taking away from it it's amazing i mean those pearl jam records those yeah sound garden records were good gracious so great you But there was a pop, rock, but heavy, smart sensibility about STP that everybody realizes now.

1:28:32Yes. It's happening now. My daughter is a huge STP fan. It's unbelievable. Which is insane to me. And I'm like, really? She's like, listen to how great this is. I was like, yeah, it's great. There's no meandering. It's right to the point. Oh, man, I could say anything about that. Okay. What's one song, any era, what's one song you wish you wrote? Wichita Lineman, hands down Wow You've answered that before, you knew you were ready Wow, it's one of my favorite songs as a child I remember hearing it so much when I was a kid Did you ever look at that lyric? Oh my gosh I mean, dude, it's insane Even though Glenn didn't write it The vocal, like, I don't Sure, I could say a Beatles song I could say all that, but there's something that is so inherently Americana About that song And it is a unique experience And you can't write that song and live in England.

1:29:23Yeah, that's well said. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter anywhere else in the world. That is a song that belongs to us. And it's not a bro country thing. It's not a market placement thing. It's just Jimmy Webb being awesome. Jeez. And Glen Campbell delivering an insane vocal. Yeah. sad but hopeful and don't sleep on Glenn's guitar playing what dude forget about I didn't really know that dude Roy Clark and Glenn Campbell like those two guys they were some of the greatest guitar players on the planet that nobody ever really talks about maybe they do in country I don't know I'm not really in that world but you know quick picking and fun strumming I mean Ain't no joke I mean that was my first Guitar book Was a Roy Clark sound Oh jeez Yeah Mel Bay Nope Roy Clark Yes Explained so much Yeah It really does Doesn't it Okay You can play Only one Of your songs For your kids Which one Hmm That's a That's a That's a Tough one Man, I don't Only one of my songs for my children It's a nightmare question It really is My feet are on fire

1:31:01There's a song I wrote called Don't Forget Yourself Which was on Beauty and Disrepair Aaron McCarley actually did the backgrounds on it Oh wow

1:31:18I would sing that for them Because the lyric is exactly what that is No matter what you do in this life Do not forget You are One being You don't have to follow anything else You always just have to follow that truth Keep going forward I don't want to play it like Kids don't want to hear hit songs Dave Let me tell you what the kids don't want these days. They don't want it. They want something deep. They want to feel something. They want to feel something. They want to feel something. Golly, who is that guy in my brain? I'm so scared of him. Dave, come here for a second. I want to tell you something.

1:32:00That's the guy with the leather jacket that smells like smoke. That's him. I'm just hugging him from behind while he's talking to you. You strangely smell like olives. Why do you smell like olives? Anyway, sit down. Tell me more about you. Let me tell you about me. Okay, last question. If you wrote a book on being a father, what would it be called? If I wrote a book about being a father, what would it be called?

1:32:26Always Be Present. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, probably. I mean, that sounds a little soft, but it really what it is. It's either Always Be Present or I'll Always Be There, but you can't always be there. so it's really just it's always be present when you're there be present when you're there be there let's call it that there we go that's what it is get out of here when you're there suck that chat GBT can't do that can you well dude we love you thank you so much for being on thank you for doing this thanks for hanging out dude thanks for having me

1:33:01dadville