Greta Eskridge: Protecting Childhood in a Digital World

24:41But I still, to the best of my abilities, wanted, you know, to know, like, what is he doing? What is he thinking about? Where is he going? But I learned that that was actually not healthy for me.

24:51Jon McLaughlin:It was not healthy for him. It wasn't healthy for me. It wasn't healthy for marriage. Totally natural to want to do that. I had to step back from that. and I had to trust Aaron and I had to trust God and just, I can't control any of this. And, um, that was the most healthy move, but man, it is hard. It is hard. Well, and you know what? I mean, if, if, I mean, it's sort of like, if we believe what we say, we believe as Christians, I mean, that's kind of all of us to greater degrees. Well, that's not fair. All sin is sin, but in different ways are navigating those things every day. All of us like trying to really be who we are and not acting out of those things that cause us to make really bad decisions.

25:33And I think, and you know, so it's like, if we say what we believe, the crazy thing is, is, and I love what you said, Greta, cause it's so true. Knowing what prompts us to do these things is such a massive piece because if you can work on that, there's a really good chance you don't keep doing it. And I think that's, what's so hard to understand. I would say probably, especially with pornography, is this, I think it's easy to look at it and be like, man, if you have a penchant for that, good luck ever getting out of that. And when it's like, well, no, that's not really true, because I think if we can work on the things that drive us toward it, you can really not struggle as much.

26:09But then the onus is on us to manage those things, to keep those in front of ourselves and our community and the Lord. But it's proof that we're always, prayerfully, we're regenerating all the time. There's no sin prayerfully that, well, I know that will keep us forever tied to it if we're working through it with the Lord and our friends and our community and our spouses and all that. So it's, it's that, but that's, but again, that's such a tricky thing because you really have to trust again, that, that Aaron is working on that, that you, you got to work on that in your marriage or whatever, that those seeds don't grow again.

26:43And I think there's a, there's a, you know, that's where there's wisdom in keeping accountability and knowing that, I mean, that's kind of the other thing we have to balance too, is realizing that at any moment, any of us can do a very, very dumb thing. But I think, I don't know, I feel like the older I get, the more I realize the truth, which you said so well, is like these things never, like it doesn't, you don't walk out in your backyard and all of a sudden you have a 50 foot maple tree. You know, it's like years. And I mean, for that analogy, two years and years, but you know, it's just the sin grows really slowly and methodically.

27:15It has ways of, and you said it so well with, with what you're saying is like one thing that used to satiate that little scratch a week ago doesn't do it anymore. And so you upgrade and you keep up. And so it's, it's, you know, it's, it's realizing that. And I think that's the healthiest we can be is knowing that, you know, what is growing in me? Am I doing something that tomorrow is going to look a totally different, bigger version of that same thing, you know? So, uh, but at the same time, you can, you can move on from these things too. You know, it's like, as we manage our interior lives, you kind of go, man, I just noticed that if I don't think about that, I don't have a draw to do that anymore.

27:52Cause I don't, you know, um, and so what, so what does that look like with y 'all moving forward through that? Do y 'all have kind of things in place now, or is he at a place where he's like, you know, it's just not as much a struggle anymore. Or how do y 'all navigate that now? Um, he, uh, like the Lord blessed me with a lot of, um, trust in him in, in Aaron. And, um, I would, I would say I'm also by nature, not much of a worrier. And so, and I, and I'm not a overthinker, so I don't get lost in my head a lot, sometimes to my, not to my benefit because I probably should think about things more.

28:33So I would say after the first like two years, which were truly the hardest, there came a lot of freedom and not like I had I felt like I had to check everything or that we had to have all kinds of stuff implemented on the computer and the phone. um and and in the years since i would say it's been we've been much more there's much more openness and freedom ability to talk to one another um and that that takes time too because i want like for us to feel safe for me to feel safe like hey this happened and it's not really because you did something, but it opened up an old wound and it made me feel afraid.

29:24And, um, I, I'm trusting you that, you know, there's nothing going on, but I need to tell you how it made me feel. And then he can respond with, thank you for telling me and not be defensive and be like, oh, you never, you're never going to trust me again. I'm the worst person. We had to work through all of that stuff to get to the point where now I could say to him, like, Hey, this bothers me. I don't feel comfortable with it. And he can say, I totally hear what you're saying. I understand. I will, I will not do that anymore. Or like, I can remember there was a movie he was going to go see and with a, with a buddy and our, our oldest son who was like maybe 17 at the time or something wanted to see it as well.

30:04So I wanted to see like what the movie is all about. And apparently in this movie, um, it was about the atomic bomb being built, but for some reason there was a long and very like open nudity and sex scene in the movie. I would, when I think Adam bomb that weirdly enough, I go heavy nudity, but some people have that. And so I was like, oh, I don't want Aaron to see it. I don't want our son to see it. But I didn't feel comfortable telling Aaron cause I didn't want to be like, like I'm bossing and controlling. And then at this, and also I wanted him to be like, I don't want to see that. and so I'm having like this is a moment when I was thinking a lot in my head and um finally I was like honey I just I don't want you to go see the movie and he's like oh okay I won't and then he's like why can you tell me why and I was like well don't you know haven't and he's like no I don't you know I just I was gonna go see it with my buddy I trust him he's like I haven't researched it and so then I was like oh okay he he's not doing this and yeah choosing to watch something that he knows is not good for him or me or us.

31:16And just being able to say, I don't want you to, him saying, okay, I trust you. I honor you. But also, can you tell me why? And then me telling him and then watching him call and cancel plans at the last minute because I waited till the last minute. And then I was like, I can't do this anymore. And then he would do that for me. That is healing. That's great. It takes a long time to get there. but it was also such a great example to our son for him to say to our son, like, Hey, I'm not going to choose to watch this movie. And here's why I know we both really want to see it. We'll wait till it comes on video and we'll skip that whole scene.

31:53Yeah. What a great conversation to our son for him to see why dad is making this decision, how he can honor me, how he can honor like our son's future, you know, wife, that, that's the kind of healing that is not, doesn't have anything to do with, with, you know, software on Aaron's phone. That's like what I think is true. Deep healing of the heart and a changing of appetite, a desire to honor one another, to be open in our communication. That's taken a long time to get to, But man, that's where we're at. And it is amazing. It's been a gift. So how did how did you get to the book from there? Like what what what made you want to get to to talking about kids and their interaction with pornography from y 'all story?

32:49Well, I knew like within a short time after all of this happened, even before like we had reached the place of healing, like I would say even in like within months, I was like, Lord, I would love to write a book. book about this someday. Wow. And, um, which is weird, but I was just like, I just felt like God could do great things with, um, hard stories. Like I always think about the, the story of Joseph and, and in Genesis, it says, you meant this for evil, but God meant it for good. And I was like, I trust you, God, you want to use this for good. That was the only thing that kept me going for a long time.

33:29God use this for good. That was my prayer. And so what I found when I broached that idea to Aaron, he was like, practically going to fall over in a faint. Cause he's like, no, what do you mean? You want to write a book about this story? Like this is, I'm not ready for that. You're crazy. Um, so I like, was like, okay, well I, I will step back from that idea. We need more time. And then what I found was talking to girlfriends about just what is, how are they talking to their kids about pornography? How are they protecting their kids from pornography? None of them knew. They didn't even, nobody knew how to talk about it.

34:12Nobody knew anything. And so then I went back to Erin and I was like, Hey babe, what if I just talk to parents? I don't have to talk about our story. We're not ready for that. And we just, can I just talk to fellow moms about how to protect their kids with the things I've learned and we've learned so far. He was like, yes. And what I found was that actually opened up a door in a way that I think talking about pornography and how it impacts marriage and how it impacts adults who are using it. It could never happen if that was my lane because a lot of people are not ready to talk about it in their own lives, but they are ready to talk about how to protect their kids because we all know kids are at risk and we want to offer them something better than what the world is offering them so that became the avenue one for me to talk about it and two for me to help people trust me so that when we came to the point of sharing our story it was like oh okay we trust Greta we trust her message and we know she has our best interests at heart and she's not just sharing this story for shock and awe and to you know like um like draw people into this salacious story it's all coming from a place of help people heal and really to help kids so that they don't get to the point of addiction and the bad choices that come along with it if we can help kids from the time they're young have a much better understanding of God's purpose for sex and that pornography is antithesis of that, that is such a gift to offer to parents.

35:56Jon McLaughlin:So I mean, obviously there's so much in the book that we are going to be able to get to, but I think given that this is a subject that just people don't talk about, I think there are a lot of people who would be shocked to hear just some of the basic kind of stats that you kind of early on in the book, you sort of lay the foundation for sort of the reality of the world that we're living in now. Can you kind of tell us a little bit about some of those things for some listeners that maybe just aren't aware of how prevalent it is? Sure. I think it's important to know this because so many people push back when I say it's time to talk to kids about porn.

36:42They're just like, no, not my kid, right? But the average age for first exposure to pornography is between the ages of 12. It gets younger every year because kids are on screens all the time or they're with people who are on screen. Yeah. I think that's the first one. And that's one that's always hard for people to hear. have you know

37:08hey Greta sorry we're losing your volume for some reason you're like kind of is it better if I'm closer it is but I wonder if what is happening buckle up for a music guy walking you through okay it sounds like your microphone is set to pick up a certain volume which means that the quieter you get it's not coming on does that sound familiar at all no but i trust you and i believe you thank you so that means the world so what is there something i can do to fix it well what's happening is when you're loud it sounds great but the minute you start to get like soft you kind of disappear so i need to keep the same level i just don't know if you had a setting um in your i mean i would assume you wouldn't because that would mean you're

37:53Jon McLaughlin:much more audio in the last 30 seconds though it's it's fine it's not doing what it was doing yeah since you moved closer but I also don't want to be like hey set to stun credit go ahead and you're just like well yeah okay well I will try to stay closer and keep a constant sorry to interrupt but you were it was turning into a way of it where should I go back to do we remember I think we were talking about 8 to 12 is the average exposure Exposure. Yeah. Okay. So what I always tell parents is if eight to 12 is the average age of first time exposure, that is when parents need to be talking to their kids because the idea is you want to talk to them before that first exposure, not after.

38:48And we want to be proactive rather than reactive because if we don't, then all the other things about the world of pornography right now are going to impact our kids. For example, the world of pornography is far more violent and dangerous, especially when men towards women than it ever has been before. Like it is actually very common and normal for most pornography to portray violence towards women. And I think about like, I have one daughter and three sons and I think I don't ever want my daughter to grow up thinking that is what she should expect from a sexual relationship, a sexual encounter.

39:32I don't want my sons believing that's how they should treat women, and that's what women expect. And yet, with the world of pornography right now, that is what kids are being trained to believe. I also - You know what's great? I was just going to say really quickly, this was fascinating to me, and I thought there's such a beautiful example of what you just said. There's a music artist, and he was on a podcast and so I know it's okay, but I just feel like saying his name is probably, I don't know. But anyway, he was on a podcast recently and I saw a video of it in my Instagram timeline and he was saying, and I thought this was so vulnerable of him, but he was saying he had grown up watching pornography and when his wife, they had never had sex.

40:12And when they got married, that wedding night, he started to sort of approach her sexually in ways that he had seen and she had to go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, like what are you doing? and he was kind of like, what do you mean? She's like, this is not how I want to do this, basically. And he had to confess, like, everything I've ever seen, this is what it looks like. And it was just, you know, and he said, so we had to stop and all my expectations were so inappropriate. And so then she had to, and I just thought, what a beautiful example, and thankfully through his vulnerability, to show in a very tangible way how that, which you just said, how, because I think sometimes you're like, what's it going to, And not to ever make light of it, that's not what I mean, but I think people could be like, well, how does that iterate?

40:56Other than you see some weird things. But it really, I think especially the ages you're speaking of, which is exactly what this book is doing, that is a very real problem. And I've also heard people speak to like, it's sex, well, there's your 40 and slip. It sets expectations to what your body should look like. just all these things that if you're not that then you know when you're 12 or 13 seeing this you're like well I guess I can't have sex or if I don't last as long as whatever you know these things that just become unbelievably unhealthy expectations that get set at the age like you're saying so that when it is time for you to be with someone you have all of this stuff you're bringing in that yes it's just all

41:41Jon McLaughlin:Greta you say in the book you were talking about a really, really young age to tell your kids just what porn is. Even just define it for them. And that you get pushback from parents like they don't even know what sex is. And I had never thought about it through this specific lens, but you saying how great would it be for them to separate the two from the get-go that porn is not attached to sex. That's great. I think that's such a healthy... really good i mean to your point dave like if if our kids can grow up seeing porn as some other thing and it's not even attached to sex that they're all the better that's really really good yeah i i think that it's actually wonderful when we can tell our kids that pornography and just give it a real simple definition it's pictures or movies of people who have no clothes on or hardly any clothes on and that that's all that they need to know when they're six or seven years old.

42:44Oh, it's taking every part of my middle school or not to say six, seven at that. I'm so proud of you. Everybody write a book on that. Okay. When they're seven or eight years old to just have that simple explanation for them. And it, and, and we don't attach it to the story of what sex is and how babies are made. They don't, They shouldn't know that those two things are connected because we want to keep sex as the beautiful thing God created it to be. It is not shameful. It's not scary. It is not hurtful. It is something that God made that is great for moms and dads when they're married. and like that to give our kids that view from the time they're little in a world that's saturated of telling them all the bad things and the negative things um and portraying sex in those negative ways that's a gift we can give our kids so in what i really want parents to know is if we can give our kids that view of sex and that we can keep them um keep that view in mind throughout their whole childhood and work towards reminding them of the truth, then that's a gift we're giving our kids.

44:02And that will actually benefit for them, be a benefit for them when they get married. And that clip that you talked about, Dave, I know exactly the clip. I watched it. I showed it to my teenagers and young adults. I was like, this level of honesty and vulnerability can help so many people and that's why we have to talk about all this stuff even when our kids are young because somebody else is going to be their educator about sex and we might not agree with what somebody else is telling them whether it's google whether it's their friends it's an older cousin we should be

44:39Jon McLaughlin:the ones it's always the older cousin always the older cousin hey what you come out here let's uh come talk to me while i smoke yeah okay sure

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48:34Quince.com slash dadville. Um, so let me, and this is maybe a weird question, but have you found that there's anything for parents that are listening that, um, that helps. I don't want to, I don't even know how I'm asking this question, but is there something to how a husband and wife treat each other that helps that? I mean, that's a really weird question. I'm like, come here, son, watch us. But like, I don't mean that. But I mean, is there like, you know, being affectionate with your wife in appropriate ways in front of the kids? I mean, does that have any correlation or help at all or none at all?

49:13I think the thing that's so tricky, let me say this. I think the thing that's so tricky about pornography is it just feels like a country to itself. It's like, you can have the best intent. You can really not want to do it. But when you encounter it, it's just like, I remember a guy I knew that really struggled with it. And he had said a password to, you know, something to be like his daughter's name thinking in and we commiserate in a way, just like even that you would think at that moment, your brain goes, bro, like, remember, but you know, when you want something in that state, it doesn't matter.

49:44But I'm curious as parents, is there anything you can do in those ways to kind of help a kid as he's thinking about that or, or, or, you know, it's a weird, well, I think, um, like those are two different questions, but the first one about how parents can relate to one another. Yeah. I mean, I think there's always an important place for healthy, God honoring, loving affection between a husband and wife. That's, that's because that's the antithesis of pornography, right? And that's what we want to show them. We want to show them that is the opposite. That over there, pornography is not real intimacy.

50:28It's not real relationship. It's not kindness and love and safety. So in our actions and the way we treat each other as husband and wives, and even pursuing real relationship with our kids, like real connection, that's the antithesis of pornography so yes be together in loving kind god honoring ways show them you know you hold hands when you sit on the couch like i always tell our kids when they like roll their eyes that as kissing i'm like hey it's better to have parents who kiss than parents who don't and like that's something that's good i mean we're not gonna make out in front of them that's weird um but you know i'm gonna kiss him hello or he's gonna kiss me bye whatever and and it's not weird.

51:11We don't have to hide that. And then, then I think the other, the other thing that you mentioned about how, like, how do we help our kids? Like in that moment, like you said, like when this, um, the siren call of pornography is, you know, um, impacting them for whatever reason, they're bored, they're lonely, they're discouraged, they're anxious. They just heard about it. They accidentally stumbled on it, whatever. I think we need to be really honest with our kids, you will see this. You will hear about it. You might see it accidentally, and then you might be curious and go look at more. Or you might just stumble upon it, someone shows it to you, and you can't stop thinking about it.

52:00When that happens, tell me. I want to help you. Like you are not a bad person. It is a normal response. And I think even as they're old enough and mature enough to understand like biologically, that is a normal response to feel something like in our bodies when we see this kind of image or we even hear about it, that it's normal to have a response, that that doesn't make you a bad person. You don't have to hide in shame. instead talk to me about it tell me tell dad like tell somebody so that we can help you and you can not choose to look at it because it's not good for you in fact it's dangerous and harmful that level of honesty with our kids is really valuable because if we think our kids are never going to encounter pornography it's just not the truth yeah i do think that is that that is a that

52:58Jon McLaughlin:is step one, I think. And I totally understand anyone listening who, I understand not wanting to talk about it, for sure. That's totally normal. But for anyone who is just like, my kids aren't ready yet, or I can control this. I know there will come a day where we'll have to deal with it, but it's not today. I just feel like step one is like, you got to just let go with that. Like they're, they're probably going to come across this, unfortunately, before you want them to, I mean, you never want them to, but it's, it's going to take you by surprise. So get ahead of it. Yeah, it is scary to, to think about and to admit, especially if you have young kids, like you've got teenagers, you're like, okay, yeah, this is their world.

53:49But if our kids are young, it can be really frightening to admit that, that this is going to be part of their world at some point. But if we instead think about that, this is just like any other safety talk. Like we don't tell our kids don't cross the street without me, without holding my hand because we don't want them. Like, we don't want to think about they could get hit by a car. Like, so we're not going to tell them like, we don't do that. We, we know like the damage of getting hit by a car is so great. It is worth the risk of saying you have to wait and cross the street with me. We don't tell them, we don't say don't touch the stove because we don't want to think about them getting burnt.

54:33We don't tell them all the gory details of what it would be like if they got a really bad burn. We just say the stove is dangerous and it can hurt you. So you can't play with it. You can't turn it on. If you want to watch me cook on the stove, I'm there with you, there to help you but we don't say nothing we know the damage potentially is there so we have to say something this talking to our kids about pornography is that same kind of safety talk it is just protection it's when they're little not with lots of details but it's just a level of protection for them in a world that is dangerous and the irony is the odds of them

55:14Jon McLaughlin:getting hit by a car across the street versus the odds of them stumbling across pornography. It's just no contest there.

55:25I was just going to say, I think the thing that's so scary to me about pornography with kids is that there's something in me that's like, God, but the minute you talk about it, they suddenly know it's a thing. And then if they're like, huh, I wonder what that is. I think that's my fear. has been I mean we've talked to our kids about it but you know I know that's the thing that's so unique about that is I think you know you can tell your kids like don't cross the street and I don't think they'll go I wonder what it feels like to get hit by a car but I think in that moment they're like I'm just curious what that is and then you're like goo and I think too I can't think of many things that are more magnetic than it is you know what I mean it's like its pull is so powerful.

56:12And so then you're like, you're not just risking telling them that you're like, if they get within the radius of that thing, it is really intense. And so, you know, I think that's probably why some parents at least are kind of like, God, just don't even want to bring it up. Cause if I bring it up, then it's a real thing. But your point is right. I mean, obviously your point is right. It's, you know, the, the interaction with that is getting younger and younger. So, And I think what scares me the most, and I'm sure a lot of parents feel this way, is that it finds you now. It's something. And that's happened to me dozens of times in my adult life where I'm innocently clicking through something and something pops up.

56:52And, God, that pull is so intense. It's just so easy to think, well, shoot, it's like something got flared up in you. And it's like, ooh, I want more of that. And so I think that's where, for all of me that's like, don't bring it up, I'm like, look, that stuff is coming. And it's trying to find each of them even right now. That sounds foreboding. But you know what I mean? It's out and about in different ways than it was even when John and I were coming up or whatever.

57:21Jon McLaughlin:So what are some practical practices that you would advise parents to enact with their kids, whether they have phones or not? Well, in the pre-phone era, so before they have their own phones, are they on other screens? Because we think like, oh, if they're on a phone, then that's dangerous. But they're probably on a tablet or maybe they are playing video games or they're on your phone. So do they know what to do if they see inappropriate content? that's the first and most important question you need to ask and if they don't know what to do then they need a plan so they need to know if they see a picture or a movie um an ad if some if they're playing video games with strangers and somebody's like hey i want to show you something do they know what to do do they know how to respond in any of those situations if they don't it's your job to tell them in the book.

58:25I have a whole script for parents so they know exactly what to say and how to give their kids the plan of how to respond. And then in the, you know, as they get older and they are on devices on their own, less input from you and more ability to step into accidental discovery or purposeful searches? Do they know, again, do they know the plan? Do they know how to step away from that? If it's something that they have looked at, did they know that they could come to you, say, mom, dad, I've been looking at these. I'm having a hard time stopping. Have you cultivated a like connection, enough connection and closeness in your family that they could talk to you or somebody else like let them know hey i get it if you don't want to tell me i i want you to know you can talk to this person this person this person so making sure they know who they can talk to um and that you're there to help them not to you know get them in trouble yeah um and then i think too knowing things like okay if they have access to social media at 14 there's a great chance that they will stumble upon porn there you know so delay i'm a big fan of delaying delaying a smartphone um delaying social media as long as possible but then also training so knowing that you don't just say okay you're 17 now you're old enough for your own whatever account and never having talked to them about the dangers they might encounter they need to know about things like sextortion like yeah this is especially for young boys like teenage boys are the number one target some they think it's this cute girl who's you know 14 and is saying could you send me a picture and then i'll send you one and and their 14 year old brains are not developed and they're not thinking at all and they just respond and then they're caught in this scheme where someone's saying send me five hundred dollars or everyone's going to see what you If your kid doesn't know how to respond in that situation, why have you given them access to a phone and to social media?

1:00:43You're giving them those things.

1:00:46Jon McLaughlin:And it's just so dark. It's so dark. And so we just have to talk about all of these things with our kids. If we're giving them access to this world, which we are, whether through their phones or, like I said, video games, tablets, whatever it is, they need training. And that's what my book is all about. It's to help you think about all those things that you're like, I don't know how to talk to my kids about it, but somebody has to. So I gave you a guide because we want to help them. We don't want to police. We don't want to try to put them in this like force field that's going to keep everything out.

1:01:22We actually have to be honest about the world they're growing up in. It's different than any other generation so far, and they need training for that world. Yeah.

1:01:31Jon McLaughlin:Now, your oldest got a phone at 18. Is that right? Yes. So I'm curious, was that your decision or did they want to wait? Because I'm sure some listeners would be thinking like, well, I want to get my kid a phone a couple years before that or whenever so that I can kind of guide them through having a phone. What are your thoughts on that? Well, I'm really glad God didn't let me write this book when all my kids were like 12 and under, because I would have been like so secure in my knowledge of like, oh, you know, don't give them anything because they don't need it and you can do it. But then, of course, as your kids get older, you learn like it's not so cut and dried.

1:02:22So our oldest really didn't need his own smartphone till he didn't drive till he was 18. um he was not he didn't have uh he wasn't taking college classes or anything yet that he needed the the phone the smartphone for so he had like a safe phone or a dumb phone where he could still call and you know um text but it was not connected to the internet um and and that worked out for him and it was fine he also didn't get social media till he was 18 um but then our next kid was 17 when he got his smartphone because he needed it uh earlier um he doesn't have social media and that's his own uh choice not interested i think that's an important thing is to give your kids let them know they have a choice they don't have to be on social media um and then our next kid got a phone at 16 so the joke is that our youngest will get one when he's like 12 foot because again, there were reasons.

1:03:24So when my kids were younger, I was like, absolutely no phones till 18. And then as my kids have gotten older and situations have been different, we've said, okay, it's really not like we can't just make a cut and dried rule. I think it's delay as long as possible. And then when it becomes necessary, make sure you've put as many safety precautions in place on the phone itself. There are settings in the phone. There's other things that you can add, apps and things that you can put in place. But make sure that that doesn't become your failsafe where you're like, well, I put all the protections on the phone or on the tablet so they're safe.

1:04:06Make sure you're also still talking to them because there is always a workaround of whatever thing you have installed on the phone or like simply it could just be a text. I got a text last night driving home from church that said, hey, I'm just slipping off clothes. I'm on Tinder. Call me. Here's the number. And I'm like, what the heck? So it could be that they're not even on an app. And like you said, I think Dave, it was, or I can't remember which one of you said, but it's coming after them. So we have to talk to them and they need to know they can talk to us. that's the most important element.

1:04:45Yeah. Well, let me, let me say this. We thank you for hanging with us. And, and, and what I want to encourage you with is I'm so, um, thankful and inspired by your and your husband's ability to take something that was so hard and, uh, turned your life upside down and to, and to bring it to where it is now. I mean, I can't imagine the work and faith that takes. So, so just from a community that now benefits from that, thank you for doing that. I mean, I can't, that would be so hard. And I think this book is sort of a gift. It's the way that we get to enjoy y 'all's faithfulness. So thank you for the time, both of y 'all, for him being willing to be a part of that book too, and healing through that.

1:05:34So thank you for that. Before we let you go, anything else going on that people need to know about in the world of great Eskridge um you have an album coming out soon no albums sadly no actually good for all of you because singing is not my forte but um yeah just just share the book really like more people need to hear about it and the more people uh hear from a friend that then it's less scary because you're like oh I don't want anybody to see me reading that book Yeah. And in fact, when I proposed the book to my publisher, they were like, oh, that's called a brown bag book. Like you don't want anybody to know.

1:06:15And I huge kudos to my editor at my publisher who was like, no, we're going to call it what it is. Yeah. Have the word porn in the title. So I think it's a scary book, but the more people share it and talk about it, then we take away the stigma and the shame and we don't have to hide anymore. Because when we step into the light, that's where the healing is. Come on. That feels like a wonderful place to end this. Greta, thank you so much. You're the best. Thank you for your time. Thanks for the books. Thanks for having me on. It was great.

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