Intentional Parents: Milkshakes in the Dark

24:21We just, that those become markers and anything under that as a fail. Can I say something? Because this is exactly, you're naming right now, which is so powerful, the exact thing we unintentionally do I mean, I know you guys don't do it unintentionally. Well done. Yeah, thank you. And I know that we are very much against, which is like we do not want to prop up, Oro Farm, this idea that we are better parents than we are. Because the fact is when you – sometimes people that have microphones and then have little spaces where people will listen, whether that's a podcast or a social media platform or even a church or wherever you get that music, wherever it is, sometimes people assume because of that, you guys know this, that there's something worth being heard.

25:02And they'll say statements and they'll say all the good things that happened, but they'll leave like how deep the struggle was. So you'll get these beautiful ideals and you'll be like, that's great. But I got to be honest, like on my journey, it's been so messy and so hard. And I see that you put the beautiful ideal there for me, but now I can't attain it. Yeah. And because I failed, does that mean I failed the whole way? And I can't tell you, especially with what we do, when we get to meet people or we do events and we get to connect, I mean, half the questions are not – it's not like, hey, can you give me advice about this?

25:41It's like, hey, I'm trying to do this thing, but I got to be honest, it's like really messy. And you're like, the fact that you are trying makes you 90 % better than most. And just kind of setting it straight that we are all failing. and those ideals are for us to just, you know, walk towards, even if that is a scavenger hunt in New York City, you know. I mean, cool, do your version of that. But sometimes I think when we can paint a really clear vision and not be clear about what the process of getting there looks like and how messy it is and how abusing and painful it is, we don't do people a service.

26:14Jon McLaughlin:Well, because don't you feel like the great ideas, the wins, I mean, sure, there are great ideas. Scripture-based scavenger hunt. Great. That's an idea on the table. you can take it if you want but like the the wins where when it went great those feel so specific to your situation or whatever but then you feel this pressure to to impose it onto my family the losses the the like failures those those are like wonderfully universal yeah yeah and it's so much i mean whatever vulnerability you guys share on your podcast whatever vulnerability and failures we share on our podcast those those are helpful yeah i could those help me so much what i think too that yes intent you know this is the problem with any with any of this kind of thing but i think like god made everybody so unique in in their ben's organ but like and so i think also a real struggle can be you know what i think would be really cool is this little niche thing I think is fun that would be fun to do with my oldest son but like man if I go talk to guys who did like you know we did the um what's the in Spain the um the long walk yes oh yeah uh you know I'm talking about yeah I know exactly what you're talking about yeah and it's like amazing you know and you've done it so many times how can I not remember I know think about it's gonna come to us all at the end yeah or like you know we did me and my son did like a you know a half marathon.

27:49These people. Yes. We just did an Ironman. I mean, just saying, John. Yeah.

27:53Jon McLaughlin:My kids weren't technically present, but they were in my heart. They were right here. Right here. But I think, you know, to go, there's also such power in realizing that, you know, the uniqueness of each of us and how we intend things is also such a reflection of God. Yeah. And that it doesn't have to be this sort of like rote. Hey, you know, and I think those things are great guides but I think that's what's so beautiful about what you guys are doing and I think it's so helpful as a dad is that it's not like hey come do our prescribed dude yes trails and John Tyson and get your brother like everybody does such a good job of saying like they'll tell you let me tell you what I did but it's called the Camino there you go the Camino there it is but like they do a good job of saying but you don't hear that yes because all you think is like oh my god oh they did this epic thing But what you're naming is, if you intentionally are really knowing who each of your kids are, who your spouse is, what your family culture is, then you are going to intuitively know what would be good for each of those kids.

29:05And for some kids, it might be some big, huge thing. And your family culture, your finances might allow for that. That's right. But they also might not. And that kid might not need something like that. Like those, all the spectacular things we get to experience in our lives are beautiful, but we live most of our life in the ordinary. That's right. And so when we can just take some of that intention to the ordinary moments. Oh, that's great. And especially the ordinary moments where we blow it. Yeah. Like I'm thinking of just last week, I was driving in the car with our son who's 16. I like this story.

29:37You're going to like this. You're going to like this story. In the car with his girlfriend. Oh, we're in that stage, by the way. And I'm driving, well, we're also in the stage where he can drive and has his license, but he can't drive with anybody else in the car yet. So I'm driving her home because he can't drive her home yet. So we're driving her home and I make a stupid comment. Joking, like I was joking, trying to be sarcastic. In the Comer family, we call it homeschool sarcasm because we were all homeschooled. And when we're sarcastic, we end up just being mean. You got to be kind of, you have a lot of trauma in your past to be good at this, which identifies why I think us three men in the room have some, I don't know your stories, but I can see.

30:13Too good of a childhood. Yeah. If you have a good childhood, you're not good. Anyway, keep going. So I meant to be funny, but as soon as it came out of my mouth, I was like, oh, he feels disrespected. He feels embarrassed. That was a total miss. Yeah. So I, I end that topic of conversation. We're driving, we dropped his girlfriend off. And as soon as I could just tell, I could like see it on his body. He's, he's mad. He's hurt. The minute he gets in the car, I just said, but I really missed it, didn't I? And he's absolutely you did. And he tells me all the reasons why he's really upset. And I just tried to own it over and over again.

30:48You are so right. I meant to be funny, but it came out hurtful. There's a hint of truth in every joke. And it's like a soft spot for you. But what transpired in that moment, I had to stay calm and listen to him, even though I was profusely apologizing and he just needed to tell me how mad he was. Well, then what came out? was him telling me, actually, mom, that's like a part of my character that like deeply bothers me. And I'm grieved over it. And I don't want to act like that. And I really am working on it. So when you tease me about it, it just feels hurtful. We end up having this beautiful conversation where I got to hear so much more of what was in his heart that I would have completely missed if I hadn't just taken a minute to recognize, okay, this is a moment right here.

31:32It feels like it might be a moment. and also that moment could have been him remaining angry and us not having a conversation about it. It could have been a moment like that but it ended up being this beautiful drive home where we had this really intentional conversation that happened very organically when I made a mistake. I can't think of many things we talk about this a lot but I can't think of many things that are more intentional as a parent than apology. 100%. They get to see

31:58Jon McLaughlin:that you messed up and they get to see a side of you where you know maybe you know they he sees you as like a human being who like is in the car with this person that is not part of the family so you try to be funny for a second and like yes he knows what that's like yeah i'm this a universal feeling as a human being trying to relate to you know yeah and showing him what to do with it and then i had to ask him if i could text his girlfriend and apologize to her he's like that's okay but just make sure you she doesn't think that I asked you to do it. Wow. It's a really weird thing when your kids are dating and you have to, yeah, like I don't have his girlfriend's number, but she does.

32:40But I mean, it's weird. You're like, you know, there's a relationship there, but I want to just say, yes, repair. I mean, that is the thing I do probably 80 % of the time. I don't know about you guys, but that is like my experience and I'm so often doing things the wrong way. So I don't want to derail the conversation but but i also am super curious about dadville and where this started for you guys because yeah you know we're sitting here talking and the thing that we're going to keep finding is all these these i think real truths that we all collaborate in even independently where we're just like yes we believe repair as an example right yeah so where did this start for you dudes like you guys are two incredibly accomplished musicians you have these lives careers you didn't need to do a podcast well maybe you did i don't know emotionally if you did but we are in debt to a lot of people we're not quite in the black yet yeah yeah we're getting close but you guys like obviously this started from a place most of the time when you're starting things like this it's not usually i mean some people but you know you don't it wasn't like you're you were needing this to like okay we got to get on the map right you were doing you were doing stuff like we're gonna need this to have a little bit of our ego you know connect no that's It's still there.

33:54Yeah. Thanks for the transparency.

33:57Jon McLaughlin:It felt like a very, very organic start to the podcast. Yeah, what was the start? What was the origin? Like, whose idea? Like, give us the, or like, how did it come together? It was Dave's idea. But we, you know, I live right across the street. Okay, I didn't know that detail. Oh, I love that. Oh, so you just walked right over there. I mean, but we've known each other for 20 plus years. I love that. And have played music together throughout the years. And then we find ourselves living across the street from each other. We have our kids who hang out all the time. We found ourselves spending a lot of time on each other's porches.

34:38Jon McLaughlin:Yes. Just like watching our kids play, talking about being dads. And then, which was beautiful. Yeah. And it was all I needed. And Dave wanted to monetize it.

34:56like so many things in my life i took the just beautiful moment okay and then put a price down we could we make some money out of this i love that would you not say that because i have an idea don't know keep that to yourself don't finish it don't finish it get the real reaction for me on a mic you know there's one day i was sitting right there where

35:14Jon McLaughlin:you're sitting and dave was like would you want to do a podcast called dadville together that's so good and i mean i was like absolutely yeah you guys already had the recording gear this is a great little studio right listen i was like i built this place for this well it was fun i don't know if you guys had this experience but like the the we were like oh we're both great at banter and conversation yeah yeah first episode let's have it just be the two of us oh john i forgot about this please i do feel like you were like oh you were a little more like well let's prep something And I was like, we don't need to prep.

35:51Jon McLaughlin:Let's just turn the mics on and just talk. Let's go hard. So we did. I forgot about this. We did. And we talked for probably an hour. And Dave stops and we're like, all right, that's good. How'd you feel? Yeah, I felt pretty good. You could immediately feel, right? Yeah. You think we should do it again? Yeah, we had a couple. I forgot about that. We had a couple early on. That it was kind of like, I mean, like after, you know, like after a first date with somebody, like I wanted that to go better and they wanted it to go better. And you're both like, what are you? No, you know, I won't call. No, I'll call.

36:31I should call. No, you call. You know, as you're leaning in to kiss and then walking off. Yeah. And then and then, yeah, from there. But same COVID was kind of when we started. And and it was it's funny. I think the thing that's been one of the things that's so fun is there's a lot of things. I mean, just getting to do this with John and spend time, you know, with him is so much fun. But it's just, you know, like anything, it's just morphed a lot. Because I think initially it really, it leaned fun. And it was like we had a lot of friends we had on. So there was a real familiarity. Yeah, that's beautiful.

37:04And, you know, it would always kind of land. We'd spend some time in sort of the paternal world of like, you know, what is parenting like for you? you know but it's kind of morphed into this thing where we we kind of think of it in quadrants it's kind of like we have you know friends we have like you know kind of like entertainers or whatever but we have experts we started having moms on a couple years ago which was amazing I don't know why we didn't do it I mean I think the name of the podcast made me feel like well and then we've done couples which has been really fun and so it's just it's fun it's fun to see it kind of morph it's fun to you know have sort of different shades because I think some are really funny yeah that don't go very deep some get really deep and then some are in the middle and then you know you have people talking about books where they'll yeah you learn something really specific that's really cool that they have expertise on and I think for me I didn't see any of that happening and so I think it's fun to kind of look back over these you know five or six years and go like man this thing has really turned into this pretty robust yeah i think if somebody went through all the episodes they could kind of find a little bit of whatever they were looking for you're to me what you're describing truly is like that is real life that is fatherhood that is parenting right like sometimes it needs to be just really funny because that's they got to deal with that moment sometimes you got to learn and i i think you guys have done i mean i from a distance i can't even remember when i first came across you guys somebody sent me so it's probably john mark he said he's like you'll love this you who are funny and not as intelligent you will no he's like I think he sent me his interview fodder for the masses

38:44Jon McLaughlin:this is one of their better ones you're gonna really like they surprised me this show's been brought to you by John Mark what is actually true about John Mark though which is funny it's funny to joke like this he doesn't tell anybody any of the stuff he does including his family we find out stuff from other people yeah like hey did you realize he did this epic thing that barely anyone does in the world you're like no because he has this real gift of uh no he has this practice of secrecy of secrecy which he believes in not sharing any cool things that he ever does with anyone including his family i think i have what is the opposite of that gift yeah that's what you have yeah the megaphone and i gotta go it's the gift of mega it's a it's a spiritual discipline you have a spiritual discipline yeah there you go no but like this is a story that he will i don't care if he knows don't tell him if you hear this don't tell him uh but he was so i was at his house i was i was in LA with Duke and I go to throw something away and when I go to throw something away there's like four magazines which he's on the cover of and they're in the garbage and I'm like what is this and I had no idea it was on any of these so I throw it away and so I was like Tammy what are Tammy's his wife I was like what are these she's like did he throw those away again people keep sending that people keep sending those to us he just keeps throwing away he doesn't want around this is so classic and this is all to say like i'm poking fun and at the very same time i want to say he is honestly exactly who he preaches to be and one of the best parts about him is that who he actually is is a person who lives in this every day and i mean it's it's both beautiful and uncomfortable not uncomfortable for him as much as like it forces it calls you up well it's right it calls you up so that that that is the other thing i was going to say about us doing the podcast which I know was again not something I've really thought about but I didn't have intention oh good job anyway was that I would learn so much because you know John Mark was kind of one of our first I feel like he and gosh even I mean we just had a few that kind of early on I was like whoa this can be that too and And I think, you know, John and I say this a lot, but it really has just been such a blessing to us.

40:59Yeah. And how much we've learned. I reference things that I've learned having people on at least every day. Yeah. And that's crazy to think about because I think it was just kind of God's sort of subterfuge, you know, just fooling me into like, why don't you do a podcast? He needs it. He needs it. He needs it. Yeah.

41:17Jon McLaughlin:I mean, it definitely, it surprised me. we just had Stephen James back on after, you know, five years or so. He was one of our first. Okay. And I remember that being one of the early episodes that I, Oh man. Stuff that I learned in that conversation, I have thought about every single day. Isn't that amazing? Wow. Since. I so hear that. So there's that. And then thankfully it's morphed into this thing where like, I can be reading this book by Dr. Lisa DeMoor. Yeah. Yes. and be like my wife is texting me like you need to get this person on the podcast and then she comes on the podcast and you know her that's an example of of like what she has put out into her books yeah talking about intentionality and and being intimidated by intentionality yes she can like simplify it down to like hey here's what it's like for your middle schooler right now when you're driving to school.

42:18Jon McLaughlin:Here's what they're experiencing. So maybe be intentional about say two words. I like. What are the two words? What are the two words? I didn't hear the episode yet. Tell me. It could be good morning. That could be it. I mean, it's like, don't try to have that talk on the way to school. They're anxious about their day. Middle school's the worst. Just simple things where you're like, oh my gosh of course or when they're really upset what was it that stinks is that what she said and just leave it at that oh yeah like those two words just don't give them advice just be with them and that can be being intentional yes as a parent in that moment yes I love the idea of having a podcast about the podcast that you guys had with her yeah we do that a lot we'll do a review we'll go okay we're gonna live we're gonna listen to ourselves but comment over ourselves there you go it's like the director's cut yes the director's cut Well, I will market it for you.

43:16That podcast episode was amazing. Yeah. I sent it to so many people, Brooke included. Oh, yeah. I just literally haven't had a chance to listen to you on this trip. But what I appreciated about you guys, because I've heard you on other episodes, too. You guys are hilarious. The banter back and forth. What? If you haven't been able to tell. You do not take yourself too seriously. Yeah, you know. You guys do a good job. Good little friend. Now I know why you guys never film. Yeah, by the way, all of our audio or video people are like, why aren't we watching this? That's because this is an audio setup and we're in Nashville at your place, which is epic.

43:48And you feel so free. I do. I'm not. I'm sure. I'm sure. The only woman here is my wife. And I was like, why would I be wearing a shirt with my brother? Ridiculous. Yeah. I was like, we had, and you won't know if we're telling the truth right now or not. Letting me sit on your lap the whole time. So kind. Really kind. I was trying to say something nice about that. Sorry. You weren't. We were the worst on that one. Go ahead. Sorry. No, I just loved that you guys were still 100 % yourself, could take your humor, but interview somebody like that and pull out all the best things about her. And what I love about what you guys are doing is you're bringing it all down to real life, which is where the majority of us actually live.

44:28And that's how we need to hear that content. Thank you. That's very kind. Which is a kind way of saying.

44:36Jon McLaughlin:You can't help but dumb it down, guys. That is not what I'm saying. I love dadville. It's not a place for, gosh, intellectual. If you have more than one degree, it's not for you. No, no, no, do that. Ivy League. Stay out, stay out there. All right, can we just. No, no, no, no, that's very kind. That's what we're trying to do. It really is. And you're accomplishing that. Like I, what I loved, I mean, not to harp specifically just on that episode, but what I loved about it was everything you guys pulled out of her, the questions that you asked her is all stuff that could help somebody tomorrow. Yes.

45:10My parents are not going to read her book, sadly. I wish that everybody would.

45:13Jon McLaughlin:Yeah, right.

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47:33John. Dave. Can I pick a subject that we talk about right now? Please. Bed sheets. Go. Okay. Just say whatever you're thinking. Say whatever you're thinking.

47:40Jon McLaughlin:Because I feel so passionately about this. Okay. Okay. You know what I don't like? What? Tell me. Bad bed sheets. Oh, hashtag. Okay. When the corners won't stay put, the fabric's super thin, you can practically see through it. When they're scratchy. Scratchy, yes. Oh, you wake up like in all hours of the night. You're too hot. You're uncomfortable. It's miserable. It is. John, if your sheets are thinning, slipping, or overheating, that's your sign it's time to upgrade to Bowl & Branch. Bowl & Branch's signature sheets are made from 100 % organic cotton and are designed to hold their shape, unlike me in college, stay breathable, and feel luxuriously soft every night.

48:16Jon McLaughlin:Dave, I'm not switching to Bowl & Branch unless you tell me that I'll fall asleep faster, stay comfortable all night, not just some of the night, and actually notice the difference the very moment I get into bed. and that they won't wear out. Oh, John, I've got some good news for you because all of the above is happening. They get softer with every watch. Yes. Yeah, and wash, John. You can sit there. You can just watch them. They're so comfortable. You can just fall asleep looking at them. Sleep sound with Bowling Branch. Get 15 % off, plus free shipping on your first set of sheets at bowlingbranch.com slash dadville.

48:48Jon McLaughlin:That's bowlingbranch, B-O-L-L-A-N-D, branch.com slash dadville to save 15 % and unlock free shipping. Exclusions apply. Well, the majority of you, yeah. Yeah. Well, I will say, doing a podcast with Dave Barnes is pretty easy. I mean, if you're, if I never have to worry about... Do you like coked up rabbits? You're like greyhounds who done a line in the bathroom. I'm like, you know. Wow. I don't know what the analogy is, but I never have to worry about... Yeah. Carrying the love. You know what I mean? That's not mine. You know what, though? I know John feels this way when you talk about it, but I think what you're hearing is a genuine need for help.

49:39I know. I mean, when you say she's answering things

49:44Jon McLaughlin:that are going to help somebody tomorrow, it's because she helped me this morning. 100%. I think I said that in the interview. I literally, when we interviewed her, I was still like midway through her book. And I'm like, I was at the grocery store with my oldest literally the night before. And something you said in your book that I had read that day changed my reaction to something that my daughter said in the grocery store in that moment. So it's like in real time, you know, it's helping us. There's two things I want to highlight too, that you're right. Unfortunately, the amount of people that actually go through books and read them is entirely so low and i that's one of the reasons i love the medium of podcast because i will say this uh i know you're you're you're dumb you're you're knocking yourself a little bit dave but i will say this to praise you you're the type of person that learns actively yeah like yes you'll read but dude how you apply what you read is by talking about it and having real life conversation yeah And I'm similar in that way.

50:48Like I love, I mean, I've learned to love reading, but I also like the way I get it into my bones and into my body and my soul and spirit is by talking it out, by thinking about it. So the podcast is actually for us even selfish. It's like, whoa. And it's accountability of like, yeah, I got to like process this out loud. And so I also think I learned that way and everyone learns differently. And also just on the note of people that just say really helpful things for the day. The other day, so my son, this example is he's almost well he is a man. He's 6 '1". I'm shorter than him. He calls me his short king.

51:21Wow. Yeah I don't like that. That feels like something people say to each other in prison. Yeah. It's that or Big Daddy. That's even worse. I don't like that. And then he says you can fit in my pocket. And I was like I hate everything that you're saying right now. He's got a great sense of humor. Yeah. I'm absolutely going to turn him to this episode for sure. But he specifically though he we were just having we were just missing each other. You know like Like just I'm trying to be the dad and hold the line. And like he's wanting to become a man. And he's, I mean, you guys remember your lives at 16, testosterone, life, freedom, jobs.

51:53Like, so he's just about to a year and a half from now emerge into technically being an adult. Although, you know, mentally, emotionally, we hope, but we, you know, he'll be legally in that space. And so he's just doing what most of all of us did as men. He's wanting to just have more freedom, more space, you know, more autonomy. me that's not bad but it comes in process not just because he wants it and so we've been missing each other because my dad was super absent during that stage of life so i don't have any models so i call one of our our dear friends and i think every podcast we've been on on this trip we've mentioned we've referenced sally but but i i called her and i just said sally i'm gonna hang out with my son tonight and i just need to know like i'm wanting to go into this meeting and i'm I'm wanting to tell him, A, B, you're missing out on this.

52:40We need to talk about that. Here's the goal on that. I'm doing what I would assume a dad needs to do in that moment. And just like this gal who you're talking about, who you interviewed, she just simply says, okay, okay, okay. She's listening so well. I'm like, yeah. I think her okays are like check marks. Like, yep. Okay, good, good. Yeah, I got this. These are approval. Yeah, she's a therapist who specializes in attachment and trauma. Oh, wow. So that's why he called her. She knows her stuff. She's amazing. and so I'm like oh yeah I know what's up and then she basically goes so leave all of that in the car don't bring any of that up your parts need to be you need to ask yourself a question what are you so fearful of if you don't mention that what are you so scared of and I was like that's going to take a while to unpack and then she said after I was thinking that she's like that's going to take a while to unpack I was like crap she knows what she's talking about put your shirt back on I can hear your shirt not on i could hear your shirt on your skin what does skin sound like anyway uh so she didn't in my first r &b album okay so anyway moving fast forward we end up doing this you know she's like leave all that in the car and just be with him be curious about his life just ask him questions don't try to parent him just try to be with him and i was like this can't be this simple like i am supposed to bring out the, you know, we got to go here.

54:05And so I just took her out of word. And we went to this spot. The first restaurant was closed. The second restaurant was closed, like bend in the middle of the week in the winter. People are like, what's happening? Nothing. And so we go to, we finally find this pizza shop and he just starts like, I'm like, so what's, how's work going? How is life going? And like immediately he just starts opening up and just telling me every part of his life. And honestly, like we go from pizza and then we go on a stogie walk, which we call it, and I won't say more, but you can imagine what that is. And we're walking.

54:35Yeah, no shirts. We're going on a walk. And we're just like having some of the deepest conversations, I think, to date we've had. Not because we haven't been close, but because like I just didn't get in the way. Yeah. And I couldn't believe how much that detail really impacted like my connection with him. We're driving home and he's like, we found this spot. He's like, you want to get milkshakes? So I was like, absolutely. I'm a grown man. And so we get milkshakes and we're sitting in the car. And that's when Moses, so John Mark's son, one of his sons, Moses, of course his name is Moses, literally, literally, he's so funny.

55:16One of the funniest humans in the whole world. He FaceTimes. This should get Moses on their podcast. Oh, you would love. Talking about aura farming, that guy would kill. Anyway, he literally just, we have a group text and he just pushes the FaceTime button to see if anyone will answer. On the family group chat. Oh, I love that. 20 people. So Jude, John Mark's other side, John Mark, myself, like almost the whole family just picks up FaceTime. Oh, I love that. It was just like random FaceTime for the family. And, you know, Duke and I are sitting there, and we're just talking, connecting with the family.

55:46And the funniest phrase, because we've talked about John Mark several times now, so we can say it one more time, is we're like there. This episode brought to you by John Mark Gomer. Practicing the way. Yeah, he won't be bummed. Ministries.org backslash. Donate now. Donate now. See, now he won't be bummed. But it was so funny because we're like sitting there and it just looks like we're just sitting there drinking milkshakes in the dark. And he's like, what are you guys doing? And we're like, I mean, we're just – we're hanging out. We did this, this, and now we're drinking milkshakes. And Moses goes, well, my – well, that sounds like a lot.

56:19My dad would not be fine with that. And they're sitting in the same room. They're sitting in the same room. Oh, both faiths. Oh, yeah, yeah. I love it. Well, you know, I think this is something I find a lot. And I don't, you know, my oldest is only 13, but I think this is true without the data to prove it, which is a dangerous sentence to start.

56:46But I've seen it in smaller ways, but I think one of the great sort of fleecing of parents in Christendom is this idea that things have to be... over complicated to be potent. And I think something that I'm already seeing with my son is that really the goal is to keep the channels open. It's not that you got to shove information into them. It's just that in those months, because I think this, this is what I really think I get wrong. And I assume probably other people do too. One of the great gifts God gives us that, that it is also really painful in the wrong context is that we always want to be in, communion with our parents.

57:31We are built, nobody gets to go, now it can break, but anybody wants to know their dad and mom love them and that they're respected and admired and cherished. That is the North Star God puts in everybody. And it is a nightmare for some people.

57:51Jon McLaughlin:It's a blessing for others and everybody in the middle. But I think as a parent, we forget that. And so we think that we're fighting against the current. Our kid is going one way and we're going the other. And that's not true. Now, they're going through seasons. I mean, Lisa helped us understand so well. They're going through seasons where chemically it does feel that way. Yes. And it feels like they're pushing it. In some ways, they are. But the bend for both of us is still the same way. Yeah. And I think I can overcomplicate that by going, okay, to compensate for what I'm feeling, I got to double down on, let's have these conversations and these conversations.

58:30And then I can go to bed that night feeling like, when I think what God is doing is like, hey man, like he loves you. It doesn't feel like that. He already implicitly wants your approval. He wants to know what you think about him. It may not present that way for this season of his life, but he does. So just, just, just know that. And then lean into it, be there when he wants to talk. and maybe every now and then you need to dig a little bit, whatever. But I just think, man, if Satan is fleecing parents, and I would say all I know is to be a dad, dads, it is like, hey, bro, you got to put in a shift.

59:07And you're like, oh, God. And he's like, yeah. And then you mess it up, and he's like, ha, ha, ha, gotcha. And you're like, oh, well, I'll need to just sit and have some milkshakes and be quiet. Every now and then he's going to go, you know what I was thinking about today? And you're like, oh, shoot, here we go. Tell me, son. I wasn't even thinking we'd talk about this. But I just think like that's so true. I know we talk about, John and I talk about that so much. It's like, I do think there's this thing we do. We can overcomplicate. Yes. Yes. Because we want so badly to have great relations and to be great parents.

59:39And I really believe God's like, hey, I sort of made this easier than you think it is. Yes. And if, and it's, and again, we, we've heard this so much, but you know, professionals come on and they'll say, listen, I mean, raising boys and girls says this all the time. you just wanting to be a good mother or a good dad is about 80 % of it because it means you're thinking about it and if you're thinking about it you're probably acting into it and so I think for me it just gives me so much relief when I think about and I love that story with your son because it's encouraging to me because I don't know a parent who is trying to be intentional and start going okay, oh I have 30 minutes dude, it's the backside weakness of intentionality so if there is a backside weakness to this I think that is it It's that we want it so bad that sometimes we actually choke it out by doing too much.

1:00:29That's right. So I couldn't agree more. And that is we're at this age and stage of life with the existence of the internet where we know so much. Yes. So now we can calculate and see how we're damaging our kids. And now we have language to the kinds of therapy they will need. Like you're going to need EMTR for that traumatic experience that you just had with me. And I think there's times when it's like, dude, knowledge is good, but without wisdom of where to apply it and how. I think so much of like raising boys and girls as an example and what you guys are doing with Dadville is you're saying hey just as a reminder like it's okay you can know all this stuff but here's the wisdom of how to apply it and that's where we need more help is guys like yourself who are sitting in the realness of life saying oh like here's all the noise but here's really at the end of the day here's the stuff that really happens I can't remember when we talked about this we had somebody on the pod and we talked about this recently um i really think at the end of the day all we're really trying to make sure is that our kids know we love them if you can consolidate really all we're trying to do if that's the wisdom we're giving them if it's the direction we're giving them it's yeah it's really just to know hey you know that i love you and i'm here for you yeah right like at the end of the day i think that is just so baked in like barring some colossal train wreck and even then if we apologize it that tends to be okay at some point yeah but i think like and so i don't know i just it doesn't sound like something god would ever do to go i'm gonna i'm gonna make you have offspring and then man good luck yeah like nothing about the way god created the universe screams you don't get it right yeah yeah everything is facing the same direction moving the same way and so i think i really think on my deathbed i really think that's something i'm gonna wish i had known younger is like it's really more about just not screwing it up that's it it's not you're not gonna do something if you have good intent for your kids it's gonna be so colossal and then

1:02:36Jon McLaughlin:for 30 years we never talked about it isn't it funny how like you say you're not gonna do something to like probably mess this up colossally and probably on the other side of the coin is like you're probably also not gonna do something that's gonna just shoot your kids straight to harvard you know like as if that's the goal yeah i i wish i could remember the actual stats on this but something like or the history of the actual word parenting it like wasn't in the lexicon until the 1950s or something like that interesting and and obviously we there are gains that we have experienced in the last you know however many years in parenting and being empathetic you know again dr lisa namore everything that she's doing it's like you know i'm not sure how many parents 75 years ago were thinking on this level no um but i think parenting in that moment that you were talking about with your son it's like you were ready to parent dude i was ready and your friend was like easy you're doing stretches parenting is going to get in the way of the night that you had with your son you know that's a great he's not all looks either right that's why i don't let him talk much yeah i see now i get why you don't do video i see it now i i mean i mean that is so well said that i mean even as you're saying that in real time i appreciate that because I think it's actually clicking in me in a deep wave is one of the beautiful side effects of what we all get to do is like I get to learn in real time from you connecting that dot and realizing like yeah my parenting was getting in the way yeah which is what we maybe more so dads than moms I don't know we default to doing you know we default to like okay what's my game plan to fix or whatever yeah dude I'm always trying to fix my kids and she's always trying to fix me it's a great it's a great it's a circle it's a circle she's like you don't want to be that man i was like but i am that man right now so i'm gonna need you give me space don't y 'all feel like the like one of the other struggles is if i think about like when i've really been with the lord and i feel that connection and the presence of god and the holy spirit and that you know all that freedom spirit that comes from that time yeah yeah how i parent after that is so different and so less about me yeah yes and it just looks so dramatically different and less agenda heavy and less like less fear because it's so less fear beautifully said because it's so often it's our fear that causes us to let our parenting get in the way of our parenting because we're afraid of all these future things and what they could become.

1:05:23I think I shared this on an episode we did recently, but I was just studying Matthew 18 when it talks about the disciples are asking who's the greatest in the kingdom of heaven and Jesus calls over a little child and said, unless you become like one of these children, you won't experience the kingdom of heaven, which to people at that time, they would have understood unless you become incredibly weak and needy and vulnerable, not really able to offer a lot, but just need a lot. Exactly. If you become like that, you'll experience the kingdom of heaven, which just means experiencing all of who God is in your everyday life.

1:05:57Like wherever the rule and reign of God is, that's where the kingdom of heaven is. And then it goes on to say, whoever welcomes one of these little children welcomes me. So just by like literally changing the whole way we think about parenting, right? Where we think is we are supposed to do all these things to unfold our kids, right? Which, yes, there's truth to that. But also we're supposed to learn from them. We're supposed to become more like them. So I think there's so much beauty and simplicity in that. How do we learn to be like them? By just being with them. Letting them be who they are.

1:06:31Not trying to make them somebody that they're not. Or make them older than they are. And again, our agendas. My agenda. Our kids. So much of my parenting is such a selfish task. and I think that's where I have to and it can seem really great because you can read a million books but if you really if Jesus sat with me and was like why are you reading that? It'd be like

1:07:00what's another question you can ask? Because it really is about again I want to know that either people see me as a great dad or my kids think I'm awesome or man I don't want my story to be theirs in some way but really that's still me there's a lot of benevolence the fear thing that our friend sally said i mean when she asked me that question what are you so fearful of like what what happens if which you're naming someone said uh someone said fear is at the root of almost all of our spiritual problems i'll give you one clue who it was this guy again john mark but i think that's really true fear is like a big root of a lot of our spiritual struggle and i could not agree more with that because when i actually peel back the layer and the layer and the layer it's a fear that i don't want to do it like my family did in certain ways and then it's a fear that uh i'm not giving them all that they need there's fear in both directions by the way like what we do to them and what we could never give them yeah and that's the thing that is like almost a debilitating loop of fear where it's like i don't have the the skills to even give them and then what i can is not enough and like you know it gets you know you know what i wonder sometimes i i've started doing this weird exercise in my brain where i'm like if if if somebody told me right now hey they're really gonna be okay oh dude wouldn't that be so nice i mean like how would it change how i parent right yeah oh if somebody said hey they're because here's the thing the percentages are they really are gonna be yeah they're gonna have problems they're gonna have yeah but they're they're probably going to be okay.

1:08:36If we believe what we say we believe, they're probably going to be okay. And so I think for me, it's become an interesting exercise to kind of go like, because Lord, you've actually told me that you're in control. And I say, I believe that. So how can I really freely care for my kids in a way that they're yours because they are, but I think it's going to be okay. And it really adjusts my vertebrae. I sort of feel oh man okay yeah why am I acting like this or yeah if it's gonna be all right I probably wouldn't be worried about that with him and then I probably wouldn't be pushing so hard on this thing with her yeah you know and going no I just what is a peaceful what is peaceful maybe that's what's a podcast before I just start yeah peaceful parenting peaceful parenting but what would that look like as opposed to sort of a constant there we go you know I think that is the thing that's so tricky You spoke to this earlier, Brooke, but it's like, you know, there's so much noise and so much is good noise.

1:09:37But I think what it does is I know for me, it makes my heart rate just kind of slowly because you just know so much. And somebody's like, you know what we know now? And you're like, oh boy, I got to know this. We know that kids see a TV in the room. Your anxiety increases by 0.2. And you're like, we got to get rid of TVs. Well, dude, someone came into me today and we're talking about like, so we travel, you guys travel. We end up traveling more for work. and so we have a coffee set up because we appreciate Dadville Coffee. Where is that? There it is. Dadville Coffee. Yeah, please go buy that on wherever you can buy it.

1:10:08But we love coffee, so we have a little coffee travel set up. She does. We just like coffee. It's way easier than going out in the morning. It's just consistent. You're speaking to this guy's love. I would love to hear about your travel. We could start another podcast. The Travel Coffee Pod. Peaceful coffee. Caffeinated parent. Yeah. You need all that. But someone told us today, someone on our team said, oh I don't use you were asking our coffee set I don't use coffee pots in hotels anymore because you don't know what's in them and they're infested with mold and all this I was like what is your algorithm like fear based algorithm is everything just like a problem and they're like I never sit in a bathtub and if there's a jacuzzi tub all those wires are full of mold and I was like I can't do anything now without being like is it going to kill me or whatever I agree I think it's just creating this really interesting interesting well you just you and again i think some of the intent is really great because you're like hey we just found in the study this happens but at the same time you're like gosh it's just so much data points so many data points to like try to live in proximity to that will just eventually drive you crazy yeah and again i think jesus again says hey my burden is easy and my yoke is light like this is not what i do i don't give you weight i take the weight from you but to do that like you said so beautifully elizabeth you need to be like a kid yeah and if you can be like a kid and your parent like what does that look like what does it look like to be a kid in parenting would be a really interesting thought you know like what what what does that look like you know well i think even back to the fear thing though of like unless a kid there are kids who really struggle with anxiety so maybe fear is a part of a lot of their moments throughout the day but kids move on from fear really quickly for the most part they might have a moment where they're afraid because the light's off in the room you turn the light on their fear's gone yeah and so i think back to that it's so easy to parent out of fear like really learning from them of like they're really especially when they're little they have no idea that they could fall off the thing they're walking on and get a concussion or break their leg like they just think it's really fun to be up on the coffee table walking right yeah no fear and i think there's so much we can learn from just that child likeness and the innocence because they trust their parents.

1:12:27Yeah. Again, back to like that God is actually in control. Do we actually believe that? And I think, yes, some, all the information that we now have, some of that's really good, right? Yeah. I also think it's another one of the enemy's tactics for parents to get us so stuck in fear and trying so hard to be intentional and do a good job that we absolutely miss presence and just being with them. And you know, too, the other thing that I've thought about lately is just intent. I mean, this, again, this is the water y 'all swim in with your podcast. But I think, like, I really, I think you and I just talked about this in a conversation the other day.

1:13:07But I think a new barometer for me with my kids is do they know the intent of what I'm doing, whether I'm doing it or not? like and I think that's really become an important thing to me is that my kids can go you know he doesn't always stick to landing but I know he loves me I know he's trying to do the right thing and yeah because I and that's been a really helpful thing for me because it's gotten me out of like the execution yes always having to be spot on but I think that my kids would see that's been a big connection point for me with each of them it's just trying to make sure that one thing I'm fostering in our, my relationship with each of them as we're tethered in the ways we are is to go, do you know my intent?

1:13:49And I think I, when I feel like, I feel like they do. That's like been a good barometer for me. It's like, okay, there's a connection. You know what I'm trying to do? You see my love for you when I'm trying. And that's been really helpful because it takes it out of the execution to like, you know where my heart is and who I am in relation to you as opposed to going like, you know is this working like yes i'm trying to do that awkward conversation you're driving home and you're like i am swinging and missing but i think if i stopped in that moment go hey bud do you do you see and you'd be like yeah i mean you know you're trying to talk to me and you're trying to get to know me more i just want to talk totally great yes well and knowing your kid's so important because i was thinking about back to the camino that's a callback guys that's what that's called yeah thank you uh the camino piece like if i took my son on the camino like son we're gonna end primal path with the Kamino yeah he'd probably try to kill me on that yeah yeah like his personality be like I this is more for you than me I like the push but like I'm dying he'd probably try to kill me you know and realizing like that's not a gift to him you know and that's the hard thing about models that are so strong sometimes is that like you think that because someone did it that way with their particular set of relational dynamic yeah that that means that's the gold standard of the best and i think that's the it's what we're saying is actually harder and better which is you got to learn your kid learn what's great the camino for your for that kid might not it might be disneyland for one or like hey like that an idea of a trip is just too much like so that's what i mean it's like it is trickier than that and it's isn't it funny too i don't know if you saw this growing up in the church like you did but john and i've laughed at we'd have a few i love when we have people and we get to talk about this with them but that was something kind of growing up in the 80s and 90s in Christendom and church culture was that there was parents like there was kind of like and I think everybody meant well like I don't think this was the intent was ever it was just what we knew at that time and that's what got propagated but like hey this is how you discipline your kids dude yeah all of them all of them this way and boy so in the problem was you'd have one kid you're like this is working like a charm with child two preach child one and three what's wrong with y 'all and i think like that's something we've seen having guests on dadville it's been really helpful for me is the smart ones go like hey you actually parenting is actually getting to know each of your kids and disciplining them loving them like paying attention different ways and man is that more work it's rewarding work but it is so much harder than yes hey we subscribe to this parenting style and it overlays all of you well what's hard about it is that you

1:16:22Jon McLaughlin:You can't then be like, you know, check the fear box of like, I'm doing this, I'm doing the plan. Yeah. So now that it assuages my fear. Yes, I can. You got to let go of that, you know, method, I guess. Yeah. Which is scarier. It's so much scarier. It was so much more engaged. Yeah, because you have to become a student of your kids. There you go. Like, I mean, in our world, most of our kids are neurodivergent in some way. Wow. one more severely than the rest. And all of our parenting has had to change with her, which then means her sister below her, who's the youngest, has to be parented very different than the older two were.

1:17:02Because for us, it's just has not sat well for discipline to look different for her than it does for older sister. They're two years apart. It's different, but it's not extremely different. Yeah. So it's like, if we had tried to apply what worked for our older two, and I would say some similar things worked for them. If we had tried to apply that to our younger two, we would have destroyed them.

1:17:25Jon McLaughlin:Yeah. Because it was absolutely not what Birdie needed. She needed, but to still be able to parent effectively and to still give her boundaries and all of that, we've had to massively become learners of subjects we never set out to be learners of. Yeah. And be in therapies we never planned to be. And we don't go on vacation. We do go to therapy though. Yep. Yep. Y 'all go to therapy in beautiful places. It's true. It's true. Not to derail, though, but the phrase, as far as this idea, the phrase that, I don't know if you heard growing up, but your kids will say, well, that's not fair. I don't know if you have this.

1:18:01And my parents had this really interesting thing where they were like, we have to do what's fair. So whatever we do for the oldest one, we do for all of them. And then they met that with discipline. And they equated fair to equality. But fair actually, and again, one of our therapists, very helpful, is what is good for that person's brain and body. So that might look for what's fair for Bertie is very different what's fair for Sloan. Because Bertie needs different things. And Sloan does. And now your kids are not going to, they're going to equate the natural human level, which is like, they got that.

1:18:33I didn't get this. This is not fair. Well, it's like, you're also lactose intolerant. So ice cream will destroy your stomach in our home. I was going to say. Everybody's up. it's the everybody suffers talk about derriere that's free that's a free one wow bringing that one back we should stop yeah well I just want to say this anyone listening to this podcast on the intentional platform please do yourself a giant favor and follow what that feels doing so that's what I wanted to land on the plane we've become pro lately and it's been a big step for us is that we finally started asking people at the end of podcasts do they have to promote anything four or five years we had like literally four years John and I were like we should probably ask do we ask when we interview do we ask people that I think we say where can people find you that's something this is fun so for all the dads listening Justin Whitmell Early his chest hair and his brain and his whole person and myself he's a great guy we're going to be together doing an intentional fatherhood conference we have some surprise guests coming which are going to be fun and this thing goes to Mesa in February on purpose because it's like, where's warm at that time of the year?

1:19:45Full invite for you boys. We'll chat about it offline. So that's happening. We have a motherhood retreat. We've been doing them on the West Coast, but we're doing our first Nashville-based Franklin in April. At the factory. At the factory, April 23 through 24. Oh, that's amazing. No, 23 through 25. And tickets are all on sale on our website, intentionalparents.org. You can check that out. But those are the two main ones. We are going to be announcing a marriage retreat soon, which will be fun. And then... Your book? Oh, Sowing a Hidden Seed. Yeah. So we just... Guys, I'm so pro that I did not bring them to you.

1:20:19So we're going to get addresses. I can't wait to send it to you. But yeah, it's a 31-day prayer devotional, Sowing a Hidden Seed. And it's simply like one minute. It's a verse. It's a quote. And it's a prayer written out. And each day what we decided to do is just to take a topic that you would most likely be scared of, fear-based, right? over your kids like mental health, anxiety, sexual purity. Do they get married? So each one is like a topic of the day. There's a verse, a quote, and a prayer over that topic. It takes one minute. The reason that we did it this way is because we know in culture in the moment like time is precious, raising kids, having a job, all that's hard.

1:20:54So yeah, if that's helpful, you can get that on our website. We did that on purpose because we wanted to be able to have control over design and Amazon does not play nice with design. So anyway, that's all on our website. you can put stuff in show notes but yes that's our world but how about you guys what can we promote in your space Dadville give us all the goodies

1:21:16Jon McLaughlin:Dave's got some new music that's yes actually I mean it'll be out by this time but in a matter of hours yeah new music coming out oh my goodness wait tomorrow is when tomorrow's Friday is everything okay are you in a safe place you need to use words we know you're okay safe words yeah tomorrow is Friday I don't know dude on the board right now. And then John has a new album that came out two weeks ago. I just put an album out three weeks ago? Two weeks ago. Two weeks ago. I didn't really. We've been listening to it all week in the car by the way. Have you? Great. You're wearing it out. Yeah, I just put an album out called Scenarios.

1:21:48Jon McLaughlin:It is really great. And then he's doing, I don't know when this will come out, but a bunch of Christmas shows. Bunch of Christmas shows. I'm doing a bunch of shows with my friend Ben Rector. Oh, this is a three shows. I think we're actually coming to Costa Mesa. Who? Are you really? It's pronounced Rector. Rick Dale yeah he's playing with a bunch of orchestras all around the states I'm gonna go with him okay so literally last night we're with Addison Brevere you guys know the Brevere crew yes we're with him and we're with Jeff Bethke at his place and he literally goes he goes you know obviously you know Ben Rector and then Addison did not know who Ben Rector was and what my favorite part wasn't that Addison didn't know it was how many hours it took Jeff to get over the fact that he didn't know and so he starts listing songs like just convinced that he just needs a photo and a song list and he'll know that's my favorite argument to watch and so this guy he's like no I don't think I've seen him and then he starts playing songs and he's like I don't know if I've heard that one and he's like where have you been he just he couldn't hold it where have you been Rector yeah look at that it's something I can't turn off it's like a camera yeah it's amazing it's always field how many shows do you have like during this next season John um Well, I have a bunch of Christmas shows coming up.

1:23:04Jon McLaughlin:13 Christmas shows coming up. And then Ben and I, I think, are doing 20 or 21. And when are those? When are those start? They start in February through June, like mid-June. Okay, so if we can, what we'll do is we'll put all that stuff in show notes. So come see these guys. Okay, this is on the pod, but who cares? Have you guys ever done a live Dad Phil podcast? it's funny can we at the White House in February and it's gonna be they don't know we're gonna be there once they're done with the construction on the lawn it'll be the first opening night could you imagine how much of a bummer that would be wait who for what dad film a podcast what is that that's like something that we're working on yeah I'd love to chat with you guys about that that is a that's a fun thing you guys I mean I'm just literally in real time processing this.

1:24:02You guys understand how much of an amazing evening that would be with the musical. That would be incredible. And then favorite. I mean, you're already doing this. You're already so smart. But I'm just telling you I'm coming. So just tell us when. I would sign up for that in a second. Yeah. White House, February. Yeah, White House. White House, February. Got it. I'll make sure to be there. White House, Tennessee. Also, any particular day in February or just come. You'll have to drive and find us. you'll feel the energy it will not be publicized thank you guys thank you for coming on thanks so fun a fun dual cast a pod yeah what did we call it co-pod I like dual cast dual cast yeah and if you can put your shirt back on

1:24:42Jon McLaughlin:yeah

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