Marriage, Money, and the Mirror with Rachel Cruze

16:28Rachel Cruze:Oh my gosh. And from the math side, it's like the interest rates and all of it. It's like, I'm just making interest. I'm not even on my principal. Like, oh yeah, it can feel hopeless. So I think the people that really do believe, and that there's a level of personal responsibility with it too, that they're like, no one's coming to save me. Like I'm not waiting on, you know what I mean? Something to come down and like just wipe all that. like it is me that has to get up and do it so there's that hope element i'd say the personal responsibility um and and this we've coined the phrase at ramsey and i kind of hate it but it's fine it's like debt is normal be weird it's kind of this you have you have to go against the grain of what is normal yeah so what's been marketed to us our standard of living our expectation like all of that and when you live in that you can't you get normal results and so 78 of americans are living paycheck to paycheck.

17:19Jon McLaughlin:78 %?

17:21Rachel Cruze:This average family has, it's like 16 ,000 in credit card debt. Student loan debt has topped like trillions now. It's insane. Average car payment on a new car is close to$800. A used car is more like 500. So if you've got two of those, like you just start to add up what the normal person is living with their finances and their money. So, but those are the results you're going to get, right? So you can run down that lane and that's what you'll get though you'll get the like yeah i'm i barely have anything in my 401k i have to use social security at retirement like that's going to be the result or it's the going against the grain of like you know what um we're gonna buy crappy cars for a season yeah so they're paid off we're going to tell our kids you may have to go to a community college for the first year or two because we don't have money to send you to school yeah um we're not gonna go on vacation this year because we don't have that like we're cutting up credit cards we're just i mean like you know you go against every system that's been built, but you get a totally different result.

18:16Rachel Cruze:Well, and I can't imagine. I think it's really, it's really important. This episode is sponsored by a BetterHelp.

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19:07Jon McLaughlin:And BetterHelp's therapists have at least three years and 1 ,000 hours of hands-on experience, along with the education, training, and certifications required across a wide range of mental health specialties. See the reviews, see what stands out, and see if BetterHelp is right for you. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Dadville. That's BetterHelp.com slash Dadville. Every day, we're flooded with notifications, texts, emails, reminders, alerts. Some days, it feels like the whole world is trying to get our attention. But what if the voice you need the most is the one that's getting drowned out? I'm Rachel Grohl, host of the Hearing Jesus podcast, and for years, I longed to hear God's voice more clearly.

19:54Jon McLaughlin:I thought maybe I was doing something wrong because everyone else seemed to know exactly what God was saying. What I discovered was that God wasn't absent. He was speaking. I just needed to learn how to recognize his voice through the word. That's the heart behind my new book, Hearing Jesus, 365 Daily Devotions for Women. Each day gives you a simple way to slow down, open God's word, and grow in confidence as you listen for him. The world will keep sending notifications, but maybe it's time to make space for the voice that matters most, God's. Visit rachelgrohl.com forward slash book to get free resources, explore the book, and start learning how to recognize God's voice with greater confidence.

20:41Jon McLaughlin:That's Rachel with an A-E, rachelgrohl.com forward slash book. Maybe this is too big of a statement, but in a season in 2026 where I can't imagine there's ever been a harder time to not, because of social media, see what everybody else is doing. Oh my gosh. It's that lifestyle creep. Mykonos again. Or like, you know, oh my gosh, these new vets drive so well. Rome feels so different in 26. The ninth time. But like, you know, and I feel that, I just think with the people that are in our lives, wherever everybody is, everybody's doing these really amazing things. And so it's hard to, you know, it's been hard for me and my brain to downshift into like, hey, we may not do the thing this year or we may have to, and Annie is always on board with whatever, but I can feel my struggle of like, well, gosh, are we keeping our kids from some experience?

21:42Are we limiting something that they don't, are they gonna hang out with their friends and that friend is like, oh my gosh, Steph Curry's the nicest guy, staying in his back house and you're like, his voice sounds better in a private chat. Yeah, you should see them shoot left-hand threes. They're just, in person, it's miraculous. But you know, you're, gosh, that's good. Here, you're coming. But like, I think that, I can't imagine dealing with what y 'all are seeing, I know I feel, where you're not just going, hey, what does it look like to downshift? Cut up the credit cards. What does it look like to like, maybe you don't do the thing, you buy the used cars.

22:20When maybe as much as ever in the world is the draw to keep up with the Joneses. To be like, well, look what they're doing. And then we're going to be the one family that's like, I'm having to go pick up my kid on the side of the road because it's like 2002 Honda Accord.

22:38Rachel Cruze:100%. The oil's leaking. And you're like, meh. But against the grain is a tough thing. It's a really tough thing. Well, it is because what's been normalized, it's not reality. So I sit in my seat and I'm with you. you see all this stuff and I'm like, wait, either you have like a trust fund, you're deeply in debt or like, what is happening, right? And I know certain parts of the country like have definitely circles of wealth. Like I'm not saying everyone that does anything is using debt. I'm not saying that. But I think that the normalization and what is applauded has changed so much. And I'm like, I saw even a mom on Instagram the other day and she has like a brown kitchen.

23:17Rachel Cruze:She's like, can we just normalize brown kitchens for a second? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She's like, oh my gosh, How does everyone not have - That's such a great descriptor, Brown. Yes. And you're like, it's so true, though. Look at all this wood. It's so true. There's a lot. There's a lot of paneling. Yeah, yeah. That's great. So yeah, there's something about that. But I think that's even where, you know, and the ego loves it. The ego loves the applause. Yeah. It loves feeling like I'm succeeding. And there's something in us that I think forward motion, forward progress is wanted. I think that's a good thing.

23:48Rachel Cruze:Yeah. But it just has to be steered in the right direction of what you're really doing. And I think, too, at the end of the day, and I think we all know it, too, I'm like, you can take the trips, you can buy the stuff, and you're still just left with your kids at night. Yeah, that's true. And one of them is still screaming at you, and you're like, all right. That's what car we drive. We're living life. And so there's something humanizing about that. Behind all of it, it's like, I don't know, maybe the older we get, the older I get, it's like you actually value the things that money can't buy. Well, and I think the thing that I find myself thinking about so much with our kids is what are we teaching them without knowing we're teaching them?

24:27Yeah. How are we sort of discipling our kids? Yes. And I think one of the things that is so tricky that it's a great intent so many times is we want them to have experiences. We want them to be able to do things that make their world bigger. And those are great things. things. But I think one, there's a cost, there's a physical cost to them. But two, I'm like, man, you know, are my kids kind of going like, oh, to live like a happy life, we need to be doing this many vacations in these kinds of places, or we need to be doing living at this level of expenditure. And I'm like, boy, that's scary. And I think for me, that's maybe the sneaky, That's like the sneakiest little guy I don't clock that's moving around.

25:14That I'm like, oh, I need to be careful at an osmotic level that I'm not teaching my kids like, hey, just so y 'all know, me and mom, these are high values to us and they should be to y 'all too. So spend this much money doing it. And Lord knows it's not like we spend a ton of money. I'm just saying. No, no, no. I'm with you. Yeah, 100%.

25:30Rachel Cruze:And you know what? Winston and I had this conversation. This was probably two years ago. My parent, we go to Cabo. That's what I'm going to say. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Sorry. Let's start there. I know. So we do a family trip between Christmas and yours every year. And we've done it for like 15 years. But that is a place that we, yes, and mom and dad take us. So thank you. Thank you, Mimi and Papa. And we do it every single year. And this was probably two years ago. We're sitting by the pool and it's beautiful. Sunset. I mean, it's just like, you're just like, this is unbelievable. And our kids, they're like wanting to watch TV or whatever.

26:04Rachel Cruze:And you're just like, man, get out here and see this and all of it. And, and, but the, in that moment, I remember like this fear kind of came up in me where I just thought, oh my gosh, are we, are we normalizing this? Yeah. Yeah. Like this right here. Like, is this, is this, is this normal? Is this just regular? Yeah. Because for me, I didn't get any of this until I was like 19 or something. Right. And mom and dad again, still took it. But like, oh my gosh, I was not doing this in elementary school. And, and Winston said something, which I was like, and I've held onto it. I'm like, that's good.

26:35Rachel Cruze:He was like, you know, our baseline, Rachel, is really important. So to your point, our day-to-day and how we interact with and how we spend money, how we talk about it, what we talk about is what you're saying is exciting and important and all of this. Like, what is exciting and important? Is it vacations or is it other things? Like, oh my gosh, we get to have people over. Like, what is our baseline? And then we may have some ups, which is great. That's not a bad thing, right? Like we do. And those ups are awesome. But like, that's not our norm. Yeah. And so what is that normal level, that baseline for us?

27:07Rachel Cruze:So that's what we talk about a lot. Because sadly, y 'all, my baseline is like Amazon's showing up every day with like three packages. Yeah, I know. I'm like, there it is again. I know. So that's what scares me is what just my normal day-to-day, what am I showing my kids what's valuable, right? Well, and I think what gets so tricky in that conversation is I've thought about this so much in the last couple of weeks with my work. I'm like, you know, with your kids, that idea that like, hey, dad, this is the job I want to do that I really love. Right. I feel really called to it. A great example of this would be like ministry where, you know, okay, like that's not going to be, that's going to mean your life probably looks like this.

27:47And that's my dad grew up this way. I know this life intimately, but that's going to be kind of like this. That also means you can't do sort of these things unless, you know, the grandparents or somebody says, hey, we got you. which happened a lot with us, which I'm so thankful for. But the problem with that, with their kids being at an age where they can cognitively go, hey, I'm in college and I'm kind of looking, well, that's not going to give me the life I want. That schism has fascinated me, where you're potentially having to counsel your kid on them going, but yeah, I want to live like you and dad.

28:22Right, right. But I feel like I need to be a minister or I need to go do something that's service or non-profit, whatever. Yes. I'm like, I don't want to set my kids up in some way where they're going, well, I'll do a job I don't want to do because I want to live a life like this. As opposed to something I feel called to that may make me have to take in less money, but I feel called to it. And I'm like, that's what makes me nervous with lifestyle as a parent right now is like, to your point, I don't want to set something up where they're going, oh, okay, that's the mark. And so I just got to find a job that helps me hit the mark so I can do the things I want to do.

28:58That's right. That's right. Because like you, I mean, we grew up with negative money. Yes. I mean, so.

29:02Rachel Cruze:Oh, Percy Priest was on our vacation. Girl, yeah, it was. I mean, like that. Come on. Come on. Like camping there. And I feel like I love my life. So I'm not, I don't look back at that and feel, you know. And I definitely had moments where I was like, oh, I wish I could have this thing. And mom and dad were like, I just can't have that thing. Yep, yep. But I think there is something as our kids are getting older. I'm curious to watch because I think, will they have the freedom to do the thing they feel called to do? And I hope they do as opposed to feeling like, oh, we just got so used to doing our normal, like you said so well.

29:34Our baseline was this, so I got to find a job that has a baseline like this. But it's funny though with kids, you know, like you're describing what you were thinking in Cabo,

29:41Jon McLaughlin:but you're describing your childhood, Dave. It's similar to mine. like I didn't know there's so much that we're clocking as parents that our kids are like they're not thinking

29:52Rachel Cruze:about it at all no they're not

29:54Jon McLaughlin:so like you know I've had those moments where I'm like are they getting used to an infinity pool yes are they taking that for granted

30:01Rachel Cruze:yes yes

30:02Jon McLaughlin:but also they're like no they just want to like kick a soccer ball wherever

30:06Rachel Cruze:so true throw them in like the Marriott pool yeah the courtyard Marriott pool and what they're seeing like you know what I mean like they're great oh yeah they're great yes

30:14Jon McLaughlin:you know as long as it's a JW, but. As I say, courtyard. Sure. Courtyard, Marion.

30:19Rachel Cruze:Making sure we serve our own waffles in the morning. That's the level I'm talking about. Come on, let's start there.

30:24Jon McLaughlin:They're seeing you doing what you're passionate about. Yeah. I think that that's probably what they're taking home. That's what I'm praying that they're taking home more so than like, I mean, they don't know. Yeah. Whenever my kids mention how small our house is, I'm like, yes. I know, I know, I know. That's great. I know. win yeah go to go to that kid's house yeah yeah that's right you know see the four car garage yeah yeah come home get lost inside that house get scared there's so much that they're not

30:54Rachel Cruze:clocking that is true you know yes yeah we i feel like i do that as a parent i put my brain my adult brain in them yeah and to your point i'm like i do the same thing but it's like oh yeah they're not that's not what they're worried about what do you what do you guys do

31:08Jon McLaughlin:speaking of kids with like chores and allowance and what are some of the sort of like hard um

31:17Rachel Cruze:rules that you guys have around money with your kids so we have so they do things around the house we kind of have like two groups of chores one is that they get paid on so i do pay them on things um and we're so in i mean we are so inconsistent with like the chore chart thing y 'all i mean they're like months where we are on it and then it'll be like two months i'm like oh my gosh y 'all we haven't done that you know so hear me say there's a lot of grace a lot of grace your kids come and they're like um you owe us 1500 i know seriously i've been keeping a tally in my room um yeah so but i think you know and then and then the other grouping is there's things you just do because you're part of the family yeah you're not gonna get paid for every little that's good my dad always told us growing up he's like i'm not i'm not i'm not raising union workers you're not gonna pick up a stock and ask me for a dime and i'm like i'm like dad dad there you go there's There's a little something real.

32:06Rachel Cruze:You're not going to get paid for everything. That was the point. That is amazing. Do you know the line my mom and dad told me? No. That is like that one line for us. I had friends that got paid for good grades. I mean, it was like, I would see my dad's, it was like you would see the comment coming up through his body. He would stiffen and just be like, oh, he's been waiting for this moment. He was like, yes, I get to be. And he would say, people don't pay you for doing the right thing. And I was always like, gah. But I remember it. It's a lot classier on a Hallmark card than Dave's comment. So you can tattoo that one.

32:41Raising a bunch of union workers.

32:43Rachel Cruze:He's always like, pick up a sock. You're doing that because you're part of the family. But I think that is important. They need to know. To your point, you've got to just do things in life. It is what it is. But I'm also not in the camp. Some people take that to the 100 % degree. And they don't pay their kids on anything. And I do think you miss a teaching opportunity when you don't pay your kids. There is something about their little brains. I mean, even as young as like five, right? Wow. That when they do something and they work and they earn money, it's like, okay, that's the result of that.

33:14Rachel Cruze:And then when I take that money and I spend it, save it, give it, the three little envelopes, something in that is so different than handing them like a five, you know, going into a church or whatever. Creates like a little economy. There does. Yes. And there's something I think, and again, because the money is so emotional for them to like those emotions to become somewhat normalized like oh this is what feels good this this is that's good i never thought and they learn it so early so my oldest is a saver like yes same to the to the t i mean it's just like she i have to almost force her to like spend and because of that and i love her if she ever listens to this podcast i love you but she's also not not as generous like oh yeah she just wants to keep it like yeah okay yeah okay you know and I'm like, open your hand.

33:58Rachel Cruze:You're okay. You're okay. Now my middle is, I mean, this morning, I think she's like, can we go to Target? Can we just go to Target? And I'm like, she's like, I have$2. Can we just go to Target? And I'm like, oh my gosh, no, no. She is such a spender. Such a spender. And my youngest, I think, is going to be a saver. I'm like, I'm picking up on him, but he's still, I mean, he's little. But you start to see their little personalities come out. And even in those conversations, it's fun, right? That's great. And so there's something about, yeah. so the chores the work element I think is important and then for them to be giving and saving and spending and age appropriate I mean it's not like you know you have to be so intense or legalistic about it but yeah but my so my oldest is 11 she's about to start middle school and I just opened her up a high yield savings account because she's coming to work with me some days this summer oh and helping yes so I'm and so I'm just paying her out of our pocket

34:52Jon McLaughlin:yeah

34:53Rachel Cruze:and we're putting that in that high, because she's going to be paying for half of her car. So that's one thing our kids, they'll pay for half their cars. So Amelia's actually may have like a, she may have like a Range Rover and Caroline will be in the 2000. You better start saving for that car. You're your oldest. I know. Well, and I was like, Caroline's going to be in the 02 Honda Civic with the oil drain. And she's going to have like maybe$1 ,200. And she's like,

35:16Jon McLaughlin:that's such a good job. I feel like that's a bad example because Honda Civics, they just don't break down. That is true. That is true. They're a lifelong. They would go with like a Pontiac Sunfire or something like that. Yeah. There was a point when me and my siblings, we all had a Honda Accord. Every single one of us. This is in the late 90s.

35:33Rachel Cruze:Honda and Toyota. You came to our house. There were three. They just go forever. It was like an 85, an 87, and like an 89 Honda Accord. So good. So good. So to your point, Annie, that was one of the questions, Annie. I told her you were coming on. She's like, ask. She had a lot of questions. But one of the main ones, she was like, ask her about the car thing. So that's what y 'all do. Is they're going to pay for half the car? and they'll save for that. Yes. And then you guys will meet the other half. So at 11, I mean, Amelia, I mean, we're calling it her car fund. Like I'm talking about it already.

36:03Rachel Cruze:Yeah. And it may feel kind of early, but watching her like, and now everything's online. I mean, it's not an app, right? Yeah, that was going to be one of my questions.

36:12Jon McLaughlin:Do you guys use actual cash?

36:14Rachel Cruze:Well, with the little ones, we do. Yeah. Yeah, they do have actual cash.

36:18Jon McLaughlin:Because there's probably something to them, like it being tangible and them seeing it. 100%.

36:22Rachel Cruze:Yes. And there is something. they like yeah there's been studies done for them to actually see cash and feel cash that it's not this like floating imaginary idea of money but there's actual money like here it is and then but there's great um companies i think like green lights is one yeah so that's great yeah yeah so i think there's like great pairings and honestly it may get easier and like we'll probably end up doing more of that stuff uh sooner than later but just because of venmo or things where they go babysit they go walk you know neighbor's dog and the neighbor venmo's me yeah then i'm like what am i gonna do where am i gonna find eight dollars you know to pay them you know so there's there is a there's an ease about that that i think is totally fine to to transition into that's kind of where we're at but um but yeah so the car yeah we started talking yeah i mean she's 11

37:06Jon McLaughlin:yeah that's great that's great yeah that's i think that we're kind of coming up on that them paying half for something in general seems like a great thing to do yes like they're half invested in something that's right and you're gonna match whatever they do i think that in

37:22Rachel Cruze:general that's great yeah because they have a level of control right of what they choose to put in or not but then you kind of get a little like mom and dad will help a little bit here yeah it's a little bit of pairing but a little push a little nudge okay so so so okay so so we've only got a few more minutes but i wanted to get to a couple things because john and i were so excited we haven't this is so funny to our first point of the conversation yeah for all the episodes we've done we haven't had like a money personal which shows our hand doesn't it

37:54Jon McLaughlin:we've done like 260 some episodes I think this is the first time we've really talked specifically about money and budgeting

38:01Rachel Cruze:gentlemen hope it delivers this is it this is it okay so a couple of the main things I wanted to make sure we talked about I know who you're guessing me for Monday don't worry it's great thank you It's your dad just shaking his head. He's like, guys, this has been too long. I just drove up here to do it. Okay, it's been too long. Okay, so with money and marriage. Yes. Oh, yeah. Because I know you have thoughts about this. This is a question I want to ask. When you meet couples who fight about money, what are they actually fighting about? And I know that's a big question, but what do you find to be – because I know there are couples that are listening to this going like, man, if there's one thing we can't talk about, it's going to be money.

38:43Oh, yeah. So what is that about?

38:45Rachel Cruze:Oh my gosh. I think it's layered. I think when you talk about money and something like whooshes in you, I think that comes from probably a lot of places. Fear is a lot. We see that a lot. Whether it's I don't want to end up like my parents or this happened and I have to safeguard against that and what you're doing there. Fears or my kids are missing out because we're not spending, right? I mean, you could put it in any category, but there's like a, the fear motivation is big. How you grew up, we're saying more and more, has subconsciously entangled into who you are. If you went to Cabo, for example.

39:22Rachel Cruze:When I was in my 30s. How many infinity pools did you see? When I was in my 30s.

39:26Jon McLaughlin:Before the age of 10.

39:29Rachel Cruze:We camped, people. We camped. A lot of camp. There was a lot of camping. We were camping. No, but yeah. So the upbringing, I think is a big thing too. And what you value. Yeah. And people value different things. And it's not all right or wrong, but I think it's finding a common ground and a language within that. And so, yeah, money, it's a weird thing because it is a level of security for so many people, for all of us, right, to a degree. I mean, you have to have money to survive. But either the gripping on it or the lack thereof and the open-handedness may be too much for the other spouse, right?

40:07Rachel Cruze:And so all of that, I think, plays in. So I wish there was like one. Yeah, yeah. No, I think that's true. Yeah. Secret bullet, but there's not. Yeah. There's a lot. Yeah. There's a lot. And we find too that like, and it's really like any other, you could probably put other touchy conversations in this, but we find the couples who do it well, see themselves as one. So there's a lot of a individualistic way of money with couples today. Separate bank accounts. Yeah. This is my job. Yours. You pay this. Oh, wow. I pay this. and it's a lot of that we're finding more and more because cohabitation before marriage is like, I think there's more people cohabitating now that aren't married.

40:47Rachel Cruze:And so there's like this weird place we are with, with couples. Um, so it's, it's, it's different than it was even like five, six years ago. Um, but that individual spirit, um, is really hard and that can create a lot of avoidance that then comes up later in other things. And so when you form together, right and you're like okay we are going to be one with our money yeah then you have to set a set of values with the household and you're going to be different and those differences you obviously are going to embrace one of you is probably a spender one of you is probably a saver yeah um you know winston i always laugh i'm like he could live in a duck blind in arkansas for the rest of his life and i could be in manhattan and i'd be perfectly content there you know so you're going to be different people which is great but it's it's finding these shared goals has helped us at least Winston and I, how different we are with money, uh, it's been huge.

41:38Rachel Cruze:So I'd say find those shared goals within the household. And then, and then number two, which again, is any part of marriage, but I'm like learning to embrace and actually be curious and have empathy for your spouse and actually think maybe, maybe they can bring something to you that you actually probably need. Right. So how much of marriage is a mirror? I mean like that's, that's every part, but money's in that money's in that so the times i get frustrated or whatever it is i'm like it's usually not about the money it's usually about something deeper going on in me that's not getting what i want yeah or talk to the way you know it's all of that and when you can kind of touch on that level it's amazing how couples we see kind of ease up because they they've agreed on these other things that's great and then i'll throw in this just because i have to because i do think it's so helpful as a monthly budget like agreeing on your money before the month begins it eliminates so much when you both say yes we agree with these numbers these amounts these categories okay and if something changes we can talk about it throughout the month if we need to change something but but even though that's small you know when the money hits the account on the tactical level when you know where it's going and you both are in agreement yeah a lot of those fights kind of eliminate yeah they relief because it's pointing to something bigger which are those shared values and goals if that makes sense of the household well budgeting was something i

42:52Jon McLaughlin:wanted to ask about because if I'm being totally honest yeah my wife and I we've been married for 20 years yes we've really never been on a budget totally I mean I was gonna say that's not that's most people so yeah yes and I mean in our defense Dave and I we I mean we don't know like how much money am I gonna make next year I don't know no clue no idea so it's it is tough to budget but I will say that the couple times maybe even it was just one time that we sort of he's like we thought about it flirted with a budget i will say it i could feel the sort of the power of it like and it sounds so dumb to say out loud because it's so elementary but like like you're saying just knowing okay i can see what my next three months are going to be i can kind of see here are our regular recurring expenses and just kind of even looking at it yes gave me peace some peace and i'm the guy who i worry about money my wife is is amazing she never worries about money but she's not a crazy spender she's just like there is no attachment to money whatsoever i thank god that she is my wife yes this is great but i i worry about money so i was gonna say like what is for couples like us who we don't, we've never really budgeted.

44:17Jon McLaughlin:Yes. What's like a basic, basic sort of thing that we could do? Like a tangible sort of like set these things up. Yep. Or even just like research X, Y, and Z or whatever. Know these things going forward. Yes. To set up a budget.

44:31Rachel Cruze:So I'll do a little plug here because that's what we use. But we have EveryDollar, an app, budgeting app. Oh, cool. That's a Ramsey app? Yeah. That's awesome. So it's like our zero based budgeting app. Yeah. And so with the budget, what I would say to a couple, I mean, you could, I mean, I would download that just cause having it, having it with you all the time is so helpful versus like a sheet of paper. You could do it on a sheet of paper or Excel or something. It's sitting on your phone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you, you have the budget and you have the same login as your wife, you know, so you both have it.

45:00Rachel Cruze:And so you, it talks to each other, obviously. So, so with the budget, yeah. So I would say to a couple, which a lot of people are in y 'all's position. I kind of am too. Like there's so much commission based things in my life. That's right. That's right. And a lot of people that have, you know, they're, they're 1099 or they're, you know, there's a lot of like commission based. So, so what you have to do though, is kind of guesstimate. You look at the month ahead and you're like, okay, you know, August, like, okay, what do we think? Like if we had to guess, like, this is what we think over under, we have to have it.

45:30Rachel Cruze:We have to start with a number. And then you go through all the categories that you spend money on, which can be overwhelming. That's kind of why I like every dollar. because there's a lot of preset categories that you may have thought about. Oh, yeah, yeah. So it's already set. You can take some out or put some in. But I mean, you do. And it kind of can feel tedious on the first time. Like it's a lot because you have to get some numbers. But you go down every category and it's like mortgage, insurance, food, and even food. It's like, what are we gonna spend at the grocery this month? What do we spend going out to eat?

46:01Rachel Cruze:Shopping, kids stuff, right? Back to school is August. So like we gotta have probably a back to school line because they're going to need backpacks or whatever. Like you go down kind of every category of life and you put dollar amounts. And so we always say the goal is that your income minus all of these, that will include some giving and saving like in the budget, equals zero. So the goal is that every dollar coming into your paycheck. Now with you guys, with the inconsistent income, that's where you do have to say, okay, this paycheck hit. And so it was more, it was less. And so you do have to go through and adjust that income, which means you may save less this month or you may be like, oh, we were going to do this, but we'll lower this category.

46:39Rachel Cruze:But you kind of keep it in a program. And again, it feels like a lot, I know. But we always find within 90 days, after the third month of doing it, you kind of just get in this rhythm. Because you'll kind of realize not a lot of things change. But figuring out what you spend at restaurants every month, at least for us, it makes us sick. It is so... I will say,

47:04Jon McLaughlin:With regard to that.

47:05Rachel Cruze:Y 'all do good?

47:06Jon McLaughlin:Well, that was always the thing that stressed me out. Because in my mind, not knowing anything, I'd never kept track of anything. I would get stressed about going out to eat because I felt like that's what's killing us.

47:18Rachel Cruze:Is it wasteful? Is it? Yeah. Are we okay doing this?

47:20Jon McLaughlin:And we love to do it. Yes. Yes. And then when I did go through, I recently put every American Express thing, every bank statement, everything through AI. Oh, good. Yeah. And I was like, tell me. And it wasn't that bad. Good. So it was enlightening for me. It actually made it work.

47:37Rachel Cruze:It was magnified in your head.

47:39Jon McLaughlin:I'm stressed about this, and it's actually not that bad. Yes. Here's where I'm surprised at these expenses. Yes. All that kind of stuff. John, to improve your sleep, it's not complicated. No, it's simple. People just need better sheets on their bed. Exactly. You know what? That's why we upgraded to Bull and Branch. And it's amazing how quickly we notice a difference. Dave, literally overnight. Just to be clear, not me and you, us and our wives. Oh, I don't know. I was sleeping so deep, I didn't know who was in that bed. Listen, John, they make everything, too. Not just sheets. It's organic cotton sheets, pillows, blankets, comforters.

48:16It's all designed to be super soft, breathable, and actually work together. And the sheets actually get softer over time. I have more to say, John. Upgrade your sleep with Bowl & Branch. Get 15 % off your first order, plus free shipping. Where, John? Bowlingbranch.com slash dadville with code dadville.

48:34Jon McLaughlin:That's bowlingbranch.com. That's B-O-L-L-A-N-D branch.com slash dadville. Code dadville to unlock. 15 % off. Exclusions apply.

48:47Rachel Cruze:You know, and for me, I'm such, I'm a spender and a free spirit. So I'm like, everything's going to be fine. And let's go to Target, Caroline. So like, I am a little bit more, you know, free with it all.

48:58Jon McLaughlin:Yeah.

48:59Rachel Cruze:But for, so for me as a spender, the budget, I always said, gave me, gave me permission to spend. Yeah. Yeah. So when you said that, I felt that like, I'm like, can we go out to eat and get the appetizer and be okay? Like, it's not a big deal if we go get, you know what I mean? I love, we're okay. We're okay. I just want to say how much I relate to the appetizers. Like we're getting out of control. We are, we are drowning in blooming onions. Someone come over and add to my table and ask if I'm okay. keep me accountable because we have ordered an appetizer tell me you grew up middle income without telling you no we have yeah no and there's no dessert either no so if we go out and I and once tonight our date nights I'm always like three appetizers and he's always like babe there's two of us I'm like I don't care I'm living in the freedom of the party we can do it and then if you get a dessert with a decaf coffee girl you are I'm in Cabo basically I feel like there's an infinity pool somewhere that is Cabo Rachel and we love her she is just it's my favorite no but that's what honestly that that is what the budget did is i'm like okay i'm okay like i can't i can't spend that and it's fine like you know or there's times where it's like all right we are our costco line item yeah and i do and i'm kind of legalistic with it maybe because i teach it every day but i'm like we got it we gotta wait next week till we order costco again so everyone just eat what's you know i mean like i really am i'm like because if i'm not and i get loosey-goosey i'm like loosey-goosey all the time so i'm like i do kind of have a rhythm now and it's awesome yeah but i like it because of that well and i'll tell you to john's point i mean this is this is you know slightly embarrassing to say he's a 48 year old man but this year is probably the first year that i've been like because i do all our finances yes because annie early on i mean you talk about personality types marriage like she learned really early on she's like i could do these but it's gonna stress me out and she's like you i'd rather you do them she literally said this i'd rather you do them and we pay a couple of late fees because you missed something she's like i will take that for sanity and so our credit score is going to take a hit it's going to take a stress level is going to be as low as our credit score so high um so so this year was kind of one of the first years where i started to really because my thing has always been i'm like you i'm free spirit i love benevolence and but the minute i see numbers it turns me into a monster like I have I'm sort of two headed that way yes where if I don't know I'm fine and I'm free and whatever but handling the finances you can't do that because then all of a sudden I'll be like we spent what where yes you know so I've had to I've had to have this new discipline which is so funny because like John said you know so many other families in America have this but where I was scared to sort of sit down and really start going okay we need to start having a little bit more because Annie is frugal she will it actually drives me crazy she'll wait months for a three dollar sale because she's like no they're not going to get us we will get them and I'm like you've spent gas going to that store three times for what we would have saved but I love that about her so it's not so she's super frugal and she's always that's just another example of how it's not about the money it's not about there's always something deeper always but I think for me what I was going to say is what I've I've found some I'm going to hate this phrase victory and yeah yeah yeah for all of our christians who grew up in the 90s any christian who grew up in the 90s you're welcome for that but like um it is that it is squaring up with some of these things has actually given me peace because i'm like yes okay i know what that is now yes and now we adjust and it's been so much more fruitful because i think i was always just scared like man if i really really like i know where money is and what's happening but if i really start to go okay this is how we need to start to act around or whatever it was going to be like well the fun's gone everybody just you know like we're done you know it'll be like ramen noodles every night yes um chicken or beef yeah that's exactly right um but it's not it's been actually it's it's really calmed me down more well it is yeah and and i think there's there's something psychological that happens when there's a level and controls used in such a negative world today so it's not a it's not a negative control it's actually a it's a positive because you're a manager and if we want to put a a little spiritual in there.

53:14Rachel Cruze:Yeah. But really in scripture, when it talks about that, you're a steward, you're a manager. Yeah. You manage what he's given you. Yeah, that's right. And so like, would you fire you if you hired you to manage, you know, like, like how good of a manager are you? And I think there is something about that that is fruitful because in that too, you can plan for the future for your kids. And it says a good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children. Like there is something about that that's really beautiful. Yeah. And when you plan and you know where your money's going, you can do those, those kind of things you can do generosity i think even better yeah when it's planned like winston and i we change our giving goals like every single year um on what we do but like this was last year and we actually kind of just like rolled it over to this year as we just have a certain amount of money in the everdoller app in the giving section and we just call it random giving so we'll like do a big tip somewhere or we'll you know but we have money throughout the month that it's like we kind of just can freely and i'm like and that's my love language you know Winston's always like, let's look on their website to see if the 503 is performing properly.

54:14Rachel Cruze:I'm like, it's fine, babe. It's fine. Just give the homeless guy our 401k. It's going to be fine. Just give it all away. It's fine. But there's something in that that weirdly planning that out for me allows me to be free even in our generosity because we have to spend it. We've told each other. That's great. We have to spend this. So if you're a waiter on the 30th of this month, you're welcome. Because sometimes we're in a mindset. They see y 'all walk in, they're like, game time. We have some money to give. But even that is great. Because I'm like, okay, thank you for like, I'm glad we planned that, you know.

54:46Rachel Cruze:So yeah, but I would tell you that y 'all do the EveryDollar app. Yeah. And Annie, and I would tell Annie, I love Annie. And if she was sitting here, I'd tell her, she needs to sit with you. And you guys need to walk through it together. And it could just be 10 minutes. It doesn't have to be long. And it can't be long because she'll be, her spirit will leave. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But there is something about not being isolated in just one, just handling all of it. there's something about caring a level, right? And it's going to be uneven because like you said, some are just better than others, which is great.

55:15Rachel Cruze:But having some say, so one spouse is not the only one caring at all too. Well, you know, it's funny. I love that you just said that. And that has been some of the liberation for me. It's crazy you just said that. I forgot to even say this. Something that has helped me with Annie, I literally said this to her a couple months ago because I was looking at finances and I was like, hey, this is kind of causing me a little stress. It's going to be okay. But I just, I don't want to be alone in feeling this way. I'm going to say it out loud. And she said, that's great. Well, show me. Okay, great. Well, I'm with you.

55:47And it was just like the, my like stress levels went down so much by just saying, I'm not telling you this to stress you out because I'm not stressed. It's just, I can feel it from bubbling. And I said, so I just don't want to feel alone in this. And she was like, well, tell me about it. And it was, and just that for me was like, yeah, a hundred percent. Cause I do think there is something, whoever that financial person is in the family. It's a lot. I mean, it can definitely, and I think as a man when, you know, Annie, Annie's full-time mom, I'm bringing the money in. It can really stress me out because I'm like, it's on me.

56:22Don't mess this up. Like the, the wealth, the health and wealth of your family is on you, Dave. Right. And it's like, God, this is a lot to carry. Yep. And then just to know this year, and I mean, we share this stuff all the time, but I'd never known to share it like that. Like, hey, I'm feeling really alone in this.

56:37Rachel Cruze:Yes. And it's not your fault. Yes. But can I share this with you so I don't feel this way? Totally. And it was life-changing for me. Which is so good. Just that simple act. Yeah. You know what's funny, though, about that?

56:46Jon McLaughlin:In a light, funny way. She came over and talked to y 'all about it. Yeah. And was like, it's bad. It's really bad. And I don't, tell her she doesn't have to pay us back.

56:54Rachel Cruze:Tell her it's fine. That was a free gift. That 4 % insurance, tell her, don't worry. don't worry about that

57:00Jon McLaughlin:no but when that's amazing when I because I have times where I'm like I said I stress about money Amy does not and I'm like I would like to kind of share this with Amy but I know if I do Amy will be like great no problem let's tighten up yeah and then when I want to go to dinner I know she'll be like well no remember we're going to tighten up and I'm like well

57:24Rachel Cruze:why would we go to dinner though look we have this much left we're fine we're good that's where the budget would help I back it out so much. There's been times where I've come and been like, I don't know that we're going to make it. She's like, okay, now settle down. What's going on? I'm like, if we, oh my God, this check doesn't, okay, do the kids have to, how long can they go without eating that they'll probably be okay? And then two days later, I'm like, you know what would be fun? Have you thought about, what if we got a golf cart for the neighborhood? And she's like, okay, I just want to pause real quick.

57:52So two days ago, we were going to have to send our kids to sweatshops and now you want to get a golf cart. And I'm like, well, things have changed. Send them on health card.

57:59Rachel Cruze:Yeah, it's good. Make sure it's got Bluetooth on there. I feel like every time I come to any of that, I'm like, just know that whatever you say right now, she will be the adult. She will suddenly ascend. Okay, last thing I want to ask before we release you, because I think this is a big one. So if we have parents that are listening right now that are thinking through, because this is the big one to me, it's sort of like how do you think about the future when you think about retirement or you think about kids' college stuff and those kind of things. What would you say as we bring this to a close for parents who are listening and going, hey, we've got some money saved.

58:37It's maybe not as much as we want. Or how should we be thinking about college stuff with our kids, retirement stuff? What are the big ones that you'd say, hey, these are the priority ones? And then what would you say to people to kind of get, what does it look like to start moving money in that way?

58:52Rachel Cruze:Yes, okay. So I would say anyone listening, one of the first things is to pay off all consumer debt because a lot of people don't even have the margin to be thinking about yeah student or yeah saving for college and all of it so when you have

59:08Jon McLaughlin:no payments and that's like credit card debt credit card yes yeah your own student neighbors

59:13Rachel Cruze:who have borrowed money neighbor yeah family friends or family loans forget about you know uh yeah any personal loans medical debt um really anything but the mortgage okay yep so if you get all that paid off and when you map it out and you look on average people can do that in about 18 to 24 months like if they really buckle down and say like we're going to cut the vacations and the out like we're going to we're going to go literally to nothing throw everything get it paid off and what's wild is for the average person like when you add up all the payments that are happening you're like oh we could be saving this much like per month that could be going elsewhere right so so that's a big step and then i always say to have some cash liquid so you want three to six months of expenses saved like in a high yield savings accounts which is like you know a traditional savings accounts like you get you make less than one percent basically on your money and so a high yield will get like four percent but that money is just rainy day it's your like if if crap hits the fan yeah for six months we're gonna survive till i find another job or whatever the thing is right so you have that so once all that's done then you start thinking about retirement in kids college so you want to fund 15 of your income into retirement great so what that means is for for people working if you're if your company has a 401k has a match um for some people that work at non-profits or teachers or government it's like a 403b there's that some people have pensions um and then a roth ira is another great one so if anyone out there it's the best thing because it grows tax-free i think you're gonna have 7 500 limit every single year and if you make over a certain amount you don't qualify but there's something called a backdoor Roth IRA that you can which is great but it is the easiest way like if you just do your your Roth IRA from like 30 to 60 like it's just crazy so just even that is great but 15 percent of your income needs to go into something one of those buckets specifically for retirement okay so again most people it's 401k Roth IRA that's what's real good and then kids college comes next so you want to be funding retirement first that's your first priority before kids college because your kids may or may not go to college you don't know what that's going to look like you're going to you're going to one day not want to be working till you're ready right so that's happening so kids college 529s is probably the best plan if you want to go that route like if you want to go education specific there's um there's uh what i was gonna say esa's yeah esa educational savings accounts but those are sometimes tied to your state there's sometimes income limits and which yeah they're okay but 529s is kind of the bread and butter of education so with that those are invested and so index funds mutual funds is where that money goes so it's going to be growing with the market which is awesome like the last four years the market's made a hundred percent return like our the return to the market the last four has been insane it's like 18 when you're 25 i mean it's just crazy so if you have kids college in there it's making good money like it's you're making good money and it's tax-free so when you pull it out for educational purposes you're not paying any taxes now some people are like okay but college like where's like my kid you know my youngest is sick so i'm like where's college going to be in like 12 years so some people don't like the idea of savings just for college because they may or may not use that money which is fair because if you with 529 if you do pull it out for other than expense uh education it does get taxed yes you get taxed and a 10 penalty yeah um it can move within siblings and you can even pass it down a generation so you could keep yours if you never used it like if your parents did it right and you have some yeah you could send it to your kids and it is and they've gotten pretty flexible about what education means too.

1:02:41Yes.

1:02:41Rachel Cruze:I think there's some with like living expenses. Yes. So yeah, there's a lot. And there was something past, when was that? It was when Biden was president, which was, and there was a, I forgot all the numbers now, you guys, but I think it's up to$30 ,000 you can pull out and put into a Roth IRA. Yes. In your kid's name, which is great. Oh, wow. So that's all. So there's a little bit there. And if they get scholarships or grants, you can write it off that amount out. So if your kid gets a$20 ,000 scholarship, you can take that out of the essay without penalties or tax too.

1:03:10Jon McLaughlin:Oh, okay.

1:03:11Rachel Cruze:So yeah, so there's some basis around there. But I would say for most people, if you kind of know, yeah, my kids probably will do some level of a next step after 18. I would say just fund it. And again, if you don't use it, God forbid, and you cash it out, you'll get hit with some stuff. But like you can, yeah. So like, but I would say for most people, I think it's still a smart idea. I mean, we do it. Like Winston and I, like our kids all have one. So those will be the two. So the retirement kids college. Now, if you have kids that are a junior in high school or a senior in high school, I really do think the student loan debacle, which I feel like is what it's been.

1:03:46Rachel Cruze:It's so crazy because I feel like Congress and everyone's like, oh, my gosh, we need to forgive this. This is horrible. But we're going to keep giving loans. And I'm like, it's so bad that you want to forgive it all. Like, stop doing it because it it has strapped people down because it's like more than half of people don't graduate at all. So they have all this student loan debt. They're going out of state. They're going to private colleges. And when you hear numbers like 150 ,000, like that's become normalized of what people take out. And for like an undergrad in English or whatever, you know what I mean?

1:04:14Rachel Cruze:You're just like, man, like that's just going to be on you for a really long time. And so there's something about school selection for parents out there listening that have, your kid's not going to like it and it's probably going to go against their dream or whatever. But honestly, like a community college, you guys, for the first two years is awesome. Like get your credits and then transfer to a bigger university. Stay in state, especially like if you don't have the money, they don't need to step over a state line and pay three times as much. Yeah, it goes up so much. So much for basically the same education.

1:04:44And if you don't like the state schools, move to another state. There you go. Just move. Just pick up your whole life. It's all you have to do. Move to your second home.

1:04:54Rachel Cruze:What is the issue? What's your issue? I don't like, I want to go to Florida. It's like, I'm fine. No, that's a great word. but like stay stay in the places that are going to be yeah yes because again at the end of the day like it is a degree and that's it like but we've we've added so much kind of at the very beginning of this conversation of like what our expectations are and what we want and I get that and listen if you have the money and you're able to do it do it like it's not a bad thing but it's so God I've just seen it over and over and over it becomes a burden it's not a blessing where all this was supposed to be so great for them yeah that's right it's like it's not and they may have to go into the job that they hate and not go into ministry because they have two student loan bills.

1:05:33Rachel Cruze:I mean, it's just, it is what it is. And so it's one of those things that just the ROI, you have to be smart about it. It's just not, it is what it is. But so for parents out there, I really do. That's amazing. You're okay. You're okay. How articulate was that? That's great. No, no. That was incredible. Basically move to Florida and be a Gator. That's what we're talking about. So, okay. So last question, anything coming up you want to talk about? You got anything, books, any events, anything that people need to know about? we have an event in October I don't know when this is going out called Money in Marriage and so Dr.

1:06:05Rachel Cruze:John Deloney who's one of our residents so he's like our resident therapist who's awesome so him and I do a weekend we've done this is probably our fifth year doing it a full weekend with couples here in Nashville here in Nashville yep on our campus so there'll be about 600 couples that come and yeah so it's about 1200 people and it's like we get into it like it's great so half the whole thing is about money kind of like what we touched on and marriage and then he does tons of marriage stuff yeah um but it's great it's such a fun weekend so yeah if you're looking into that come to nashville because it's a fun it's a fun

1:06:37Jon McLaughlin:destination too it's such a fascinating topic it's so interesting yes the world of money oh my gosh you get to swim in all day i would i think i wouldn't sleep if i had your job i'd be so encouraged by the encouraging calls and the other half my eye would just twitch all the time like I think I would be constantly celebrating the victories of all these great stories and then thinking like well I could do that I should be doing that I'm not doing that what am I doing next thing you know it's 5am I haven't slept I know

1:07:10Dadville

1:07:14yeah

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