Matt Maher: Tacos, Topo Chicos, and "The Talk"

13:57Jon McLaughlin:person yeah did you did you have any sense that that was like a unique household to grow up in

14:04Dave Barnes:no he's like no it's canada yeah no i mean i think i think there's some i think i was uh fortunate that i had a lot of friends who were similar things i knew it was unique in the sense because my dad was also, he owned a restaurant for a while. Oh, wow. He was involved in politics. So he started the publishing company that edited the minutes of basically the state legislature, the provincial legislature. And my uncle was the leader of the opposition party for the provincial government in Newfoundland and Labrador for 20 plus years. Jeez. So it was a very...

14:41Matt Maher:So that's in the atmosphere. So that's all in the ether.

14:44Dave Barnes:So in the worldview was like the notion that part of being a contributing member of society is you have to serve people. Wow. Wow. That's amazing. And if you're going to have the audacity to include God in the conversation, then the onus is on you even more to find a way to be a servant. So that's kind of when I thought of faith, that's what I always thought of. Wow. And then musically, I wanted to make music for movies. I was obsessed with the idea of film scoring.

15:16Matt Maher:Oh, scoring. So not soundtrack, scoring. Yeah.

15:18Dave Barnes:Wow. Fully work. I wanted to be the guy banging coconuts.

15:23Matt Maher:Crunch, crunch, crunch, crunch. How are we making a lightsaber sound again?

15:26Dave Barnes:How do we do that? Exactly. No, I really wanted to. I love John Williams. I loved Howard Shore. I loved all these different composer names, and I would go to movies and just listen to the score.

15:42Matt Maher:That's so interesting. Even as a kid.

15:45Dave Barnes:It is because it's music that it serves a moment. Wow. Oh, yeah.

15:50Matt Maher:Look what you're doing. I see what you're doing.

15:51Dave Barnes:It underscores a moment. And so when I was studying music in college... Oh, I didn't know you did that. Yeah, I was a professional college student. I did like seven years of undergraduate study.

16:01Matt Maher:Holy cow.

16:02Dave Barnes:So I did three years in Canada, and then I moved to the States and started going back to church and finished my college degree in music. but I basically had to start over. Oh. Because the school in Newfoundland, the music school, was more of like a conservatory model. So there weren't a ton of general electives. So then I moved to Arizona and they were like, can you do math? And I was like, it's been a minute. You're like, so one is the tonic, two is your minor. So they were like, you need to do general studies. And so then...

16:35Matt Maher:Where in Arizona?

16:36Dave Barnes:Arizona State. Oh, wow. Yeah.

16:39Matt Maher:Jeez Louise. Which is a monstrous college. 50 ,000.

16:42Jon McLaughlin:You probably went from a very small conservatory school, I would imagine. To 50 ,000 college school ever.

16:48Matt Maher:Also, just the weather swing.

16:49Dave Barnes:Oh, the whole thing. It's like proof that God has a sense of humor. It was insane. Like, I moved there in July. Oh, gosh.

16:58Jon McLaughlin:For what reason? What took you there?

17:00Dave Barnes:Well, my parents got divorced. Oh, wow. And my mom was moving back to the States. Her parents are getting older. Sorry, geographically, Newfoundland. Most eastern part of North America. That's what I was going to say. You are way, way, way, way, way. So literally on the Atlantic Ocean, not much tree cover or stuff. Yeah, yeah. Like the wind is just.

17:21Jon McLaughlin:You just have like the ocean trying to kill you every winter.

17:24Matt Maher:All the time.

17:26Jon McLaughlin:Yeah.

17:26Matt Maher:Sorry, nerd question. What's the warmest y 'all get?

17:30Dave Barnes:I mean, no. Like high. I mean, probably low 90s. Okay. So you're getting summers. For about a week and a half. Yeah, you'll get a heat wave. Yeah. Summers there are gorgeous. Yes. Humidity? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's pretty humid because you're literally where the Gulf Stream and the Arctic Stream hit. That's what I was going to ask, the Gulf Stream and the Arctic Stream. Yeah, a lot of rain. That's a lot of fog because it's basically cold air and hot air colliding.

17:56Matt Maher:There it is. Okay. Okay. That was it. Okay. Yeah. Your karate is really showing, John. I know it. It really is. Those online courses. It's amazing. You know those moments right before you start something new, John? Just like your karate adventure. Yep. That voice in your head saying, is this really the right move? What if I fail? What if no one cares?

18:16Jon McLaughlin:I mean, those doubts can be pretty heavy. When I started out in my online karate classes, I wasn't even sure what I was doing. But looking back, choosing to take that leap was one of the best decisions I ever made. I mean, look at me now.

18:30Matt Maher:Wow, that's so fast. You should stand up and do it. It really helps having Shopify by my side, John. Their platform eases a lot of those worries. with smart tools, expert advice, and an easy-to-use setup that makes launching your business way less stressful.

18:46Jon McLaughlin:Yeah, Shopify is the e-commerce platform behind millions of businesses worldwide, from big names to entrepreneurs just getting started.

18:55Matt Maher:You get hundreds of beautiful, ready-to-use templates to build a store that truly matches your brand's style.

19:01Jon McLaughlin:Plus, Shopify has AI-powered tools that help you write product descriptions, create page headlines, and even boost your product photos. making it faster and easier to manage your store.

19:11Matt Maher:And when it's time to grow your audience, Shopify makes marketing simple with email and social campaigns that reach customers wherever they are.

19:19Jon McLaughlin:Shopify's got your back with expert support too, from inventory to shipping to returns. They're there whenever you need help. It's time to turn those what-ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your$1 per month. That's right, you heard me right. $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash dadville. That's Shopify.com slash Dadville.

20:08Jon McLaughlin:So you could have school like on top of a mountain, right? Or in the middle of the ocean, whatever. You can schedule a mix of subjects each day or focus on specific ones by the day. Time for Learning is incredible in the way that it has everything you need to teach pre-K through 12th grade at home with all the core and elective classes offered in a traditional brick and mortar school. Now, the cinema series, it might be my favorite. It's rich, story-driven courses for grades 6 through 12 that bring learning to life. Get started with a monthly plan to see if Time for Learning is right for you and your family.

20:46Jon McLaughlin:You got multiple students? You can save up to 30 % by opting for an annual plan. Time for Learning's templates for transcripts, grades, and diplomas make it easy to match homeschool requirements in all 50 states. and the templates can be used as a main curriculum, supplement, or even afterschool or summer learning series. Now, for me personally, I'm just thinking how Time for Learning could help us musicians while we're on tour. I mean, we could educate our little ones every day in any city right before soundcheck. I mean, that would be living the dream. And after 20 years of over 1 million students served, Time for Learning is the best way to nurture confident, future-forward kids and get them ready to thrive in college and career.

21:28Jon McLaughlin:If you're curious if Time for Learning is right for your family, visit timeforlearning.com. That's T-I-M-E, the number four, and learning.com to explore the curriculum and find the perfect plan for your student. You can even get started with just a monthly subscription to see how much your kids enjoy learning on their own terms. Timeforlearning.com.

21:55Dave Barnes:I've moved growing up in a very unique environment And I moved wanting to make music for movies But then I encountered God And I had to contend with that And then I got offered a scholarship In the jazz department at ASU

22:08Matt Maher:No way On piano

22:11Dave Barnes:Geez, look at you I was like, okay I wanted to drop out And a friend of mine said, don't you dare You wanted to drop out at ASU? Yeah, I wanted to drop out at college because by that point I was going to church and I was like, I love doing this. I don't need to get a degree. I can just keep practicing on my own.

22:29Matt Maher:Plus you've had three years of schooling.

22:31Dave Barnes:I already had three years. It was like a year and a half in. And you're Mixolydian chops.

22:38Jon McLaughlin:Mixolydian for days. Can I ask you real quick, kind of a nerdy in the weeds question? Musically, when you get to ASU, after being three years at a conservatory, are they constantly being like, all right, we're going to do this, and you're like, yeah, I've done that. And they're like, all right, we'll move on to this. Or is there new stuff that you're like, oh, I've never delved into this?

23:00Dave Barnes:Yeah, I mean, I think when you're a player, you're always – you're either a sicko, and this is anything in life, right? Like you either are a lunatic about what you do. So whether it's singing or playing. That's so good. I mean, J.J. Redick, who's the coach for the Lakers, He calls players like sickos all the time. And I've learned, oh, that's a compliment. Yeah. Because what he's saying is they have an obsessive quality. That's really well said. About perfecting what it is that they're doing. And so I would say I went from a school of like smaller amount of students to this massive school. And so I'm just so wide-eyed about the whole thing.

23:38Dave Barnes:And I was taking piano lessons. I had to spend the first year getting residency in the state. otherwise it was like oh yeah yeah 35 grand for one semester that's true yeah i'd spent a year i practiced every day the director of the jazz department was a was a piano player he saw how hard i was working and he goes hey if you can get through another spring next fall i'll give you a tuition scholarship oh that's great that's so cool it's just i just looked at it was like i get this this feels like provision in a unique way and i get to i get literally my schooling's taken care of and i can drive here every day and i can practice and i can keep learning and um can

24:20Matt Maher:ask you one more nerdy question yeah the conservatory did it did it have a a lean did it have like we're big on jazz we're big on composition no and it so it's called it was

24:29Dave Barnes:called memorial university school of music and at the time it's just it it felt like looking at it objectively now because of what they did with the general studies electives or the lack of like you still had to do humanities and you had to do a language but it just wasn't as intensive as like most larger schools but like did you get any specific chops like there were there were there were music vast majority of music education majors some performance some theory and composition at the time that's what those were kind of the three main outlets it's like you're either going to become a teacher you're going to become a classical classically trained artist cool or you're going to do theory and composition and that was sort of like brand new even at the time

25:12Matt Maher:and then is asu is it does it lean a certain way once you're in the piano are they more jazz they

25:19Dave Barnes:more classical are they no so as a as a as a well as a jazz student i had to take both so i took jazz piano studio which was my teacher at the time was a guy named chuck moronic and he trained basically with the same teacher as Bruce Hornsby. Holy cow. A guy named Vince Maggio. Wow. And so Chuck could play like any jazz musician, any jazz piano player throughout history. His level of competency was like, it's like master level. And so that, I would just mostly sit there and listen to him play and go, I suck. Yeah. And then classically, I got hooked up with a classical teacher. and I would also leave my lessons usually going, I suck.

26:02Dave Barnes:Yeah, yeah. But it was more about technique and learning to not let your hand get in the way of what your head and your heart are trying to do. And so there's just a mechanical aspect to playing, and the purpose of practicing is to try to get it to the point where this isn't affecting the interior decisions that you're making in the moment creatively. so I'm doing all this and then I'm going to church and I'm just falling in love with like I had to learn how to I was already learning how to play guitar from like the rock band days and so then it was like as I dove further into my face the more I loved making music in that context and it very much translated to film scoring because I just real and especially Especially because the fact of a service in a Catholic context is way more – there's a liturgy to it.

27:03Dave Barnes:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you can look at liturgy as almost like plot points of a film. Like there's this art happening every week. Yes. And I'm inserting music into it. Music isn't the script. Yeah. Music isn't – sometimes it's the environment. Sometimes it's like lighting. But it's not the primary driver. And so I love the fact that it took more of an accompanying role. And I'd paid my way partially through the first three years of college by accompanying musical theater students. And so learning all these Broadway musicals. What a tutorial. It is. Man. Like it's masterful.

27:46Matt Maher:Well, to me, I think, I mean, I've only dipped my toe in that world. but what I always feel at the age I am now with what I know about music, it is such a one, like Broadway meet three, two, I had a lot of coffee this morning. So already my squirrel brain is like turbocharged squirrel brain, but like, it is such a, you can do it.

28:06Jon McLaughlin:It's okay. It's okay. It feels like we do have a hard out at noon, but take your time. We got some time.

28:14Matt Maher:It feels like the convergence of so many things, classical, jazz, but woven into here's how the masses can metabolize it in a song. So it's like amazing key changes, phenomenal musicality, theory on display, but with a melody and a through line that just feels so digestible to every man.

28:40Dave Barnes:And that's the part about songwriting in specific that I started to fall in love with. Wow, that's cool. Was, oh, I can take harmony and melody and personal experience and lived experience and even theology and history. And it's like, as I get inspired by all these different things, I can find a way to put it together in a way that's relatable to someone else. and in particular because of growing up at the moment of history in which I did, I love the challenge of the parameters of like, can you do this in three and a half minutes, four minutes? Can you –

29:21Matt Maher:Which is so much like scoring.

29:22Dave Barnes:Can you put a hook to it?

29:24Matt Maher:Absolutely. You know what I mean?

29:26Dave Barnes:And so I think it was where I found myself flourishing as a person.

29:33Matt Maher:And so – Was it one of those things that when you started doing it, the effects of it were like profound, not in a way that's like all of a sudden people are like, you should fill stadiums. But in that season, as you do it, people were like really responding in ways. You're like, whoa, this is really connecting.

29:50Dave Barnes:Yeah, and at first it was literally just people coming up at the end of church. Yeah, yeah. Going, I don't know what you guys did today, but the music was really, really inspiring. Wow, that's so great.

29:59Jon McLaughlin:And at this time, are you writing? Like would you have been doing some of your original stuff at this point?

30:04Dave Barnes:Well, yes, some. But I was writing music songs and playing them at coffee houses. Someone once told me the first rule of songwriting is you write what you know. Yeah. And so all my first songs were bad songs about relationships. Oh, relationships, right. Because I knew nothing about it. I thought we were going to go with nautical stuff. Yeah, yeah.

30:27Matt Maher:Oh, the wind blows, and it's still blowing.

30:30Dave Barnes:I mean, I will say this. There are some Newfoundland folk writers that are bonkers ridiculous. I bet, yeah. There's a guy named Ron Hines who is an incredible songwriter. And he wrote a song that literally went around the world called Sonny's Dream. I guarantee you if both of you go listen to this song, the first thing you'll go is, how come I haven't heard this song before? Wow. and I think I want to cover this song wow what is it called again Sonny's Dream

31:04Jon McLaughlin:Sonny's Dream yeah okay wow yeah

31:07Dave Barnes:it's like the chorus is like Sonny don't go away I'm here all alone and your daddy's a sailor who never comes home oh man and the nights are so long and I'm not all that I'm not all that strong it's a beautiful melody Sonny don't go away I am here all alone And your daddy's a sailor Who never comes home It is hauntingly good. It's one of those things where like you grow up hearing a song like that and you think it's possible to write one because the guy in your hometown wrote it. Yeah, I love that. I love that. So I think for me, I've always especially still like if I go home like I just I love like there's so many incredible artists that have come out of Newfoundland or still live there who have had global impact but stayed there and I love the fact that I came from a culture that sort of wants to make much of the local artists

32:21Matt Maher:I mean not to be this guy but I think that's such a Canadian thing from what I understand like celebrating music, underwriting it governmentally. Yeah, yeah. That's phenomenal.

32:30Dave Barnes:Yeah, I mean, I think...

32:32Matt Maher:That kind of patronage, you know?

32:33Dave Barnes:Yeah, it makes a pretty massive difference. I mean, because that's where, you know, when you talk about culture, it's, you know, it becomes an etheric word. It's like, if you hear the songs, like there was a Scottish revivalist who said, show me the songs of a nation. I care not who writes its laws. Wow. Jeez. And I, you know, so to me, I think like food. food, music, art. What other stuff are you doing? It's like that's the stuff that, you know, and even as I've lived in the States now for 30 years and you travel around and you go to places where those things are high value and high emphasis and they're the places that people want to revisit.

33:17Dave Barnes:Yeah, what a cool thought. You know what I mean? Like New Orleans, people aren't going for the humidity. What a great thought. No one's like... You know, just the pores. It opens my pores. My face just looks... Yeah. I want to go to a place where the air itself is sweating. Right. It's like, no. But the culture is literally like off the charts. And it's something that you want to sort of embrace in a visceral sense. Yeah. It has to be experienced. You have to immerse yourself in it. Yeah, that's great. That's great. I think for me, when it came to writing songs, it came from a place of being immersed in a community that was like, hey, our faith's a big deal.

34:07Dave Barnes:It defines a lot of the choices that we're trying to make and a lot of the ways in which we're relating to people around us and loving one another. And not everybody. It's just a church. Not everyone who goes to church has that. That's just sort of my way of approaching. and then and so then I'm looking at it as like oh this music can serve it serves people and you get that too it's just like people start messaging you especially now like as a songwriter and you're like I listen to your songs when I'm out for a walk or when I'm going to the gym or or this song really helped me through this season and it's just like it just reminds you of that there's this intrinsic nature of something that you wrote from a completely different point of life that is now helping another person.

34:58Matt Maher:There's nothing. I never feel more clarity than when someone says that about a song. Yeah. Because it's one thing if people like it or they like to record, they like to show, that's great. But when somebody stops me to go, hey, that song got me through something, or, you know, it's the song we fell in love to, but serves. It is like those little moments and it doesn't last for long, but like those couple of minutes, I'm like, oh, that's right. That's what I'm doing.

35:26Jon McLaughlin:It's interesting because it's kind of the same effect of what you've been describing a lot. It's like, oh, I think maybe the reason why we like it so much is that it's not, it's in service to something else. Like the bigger thing was our relationship and that was our song. and we've been married for 75 years now. So it's like it's secondary to something else, which feels kind of – something feels right about that. It takes the weight off of it in a weird way.

35:57Matt Maher:Because to your point, it's one of the things you already said. It's part of a liturgy in that way. It's like a stop on the road. It's not the road.

36:04Dave Barnes:Yeah, and I think even for an artist, most artists get to a point where they're like, okay, music's important. But like, there's just a lot more to living. And I'm not, I mean, a lot of artists go through the whole, the thing of realizing like, they're like, I'm not the, I'm not a three minute song. I wish I was as clear as a three minute song. Yeah. But I'm not always that concise. I'm not always that clear. I'm not always that decisive. Like that, like that, you know, a great song is lightning in a bottle. but no one's living a life like a lightning bolt it's it's just it it um there's i mean there's there's something about the the the finite nature of of that like i mean the gosh i just saw a clip the story uh the new mumford song here that's on the new mumford's on his record if you i mean it's really great song it's just really great songwriting and um but the story of it was he's his son was asking about heaven and normally i saw that and normally he would direct them to his parents and he just put his hand on his kid's chest and he said heaven starts right here and it was just like good lord that's so great and it's like and the thing is i didn't need to know that story to know that it's a great song but yeah i already loved the song and it's like now i even love the song even more yeah yeah because it's like you took a you took a you took a real human moment and uh you encapsulated it in a way that people can enter into it with their own life and their own story and the and so the best songs that i feel like i've written are the songs that have helped people do that yeah and it's it's obviously yeah it's like we're i'm writing songs about to and for God when it's a congregational song.

38:03Dave Barnes:And so, but it's funny because people, I'm not sitting around going like, it's, every song gives voice. Yeah. Gives people a voice.

38:15Matt Maher:You know, one of the things, I'm going to soapbox for half a second. It'll be about 20 minutes, so buckle up. I think one of the things that I really lament, and I choose that word very specifically for this context, is that because music is such a young man's game, you know, you get so much representation musically around certain moments that are specific to that age. You know, like so many great songs are written about those things. And I was talking to a friend about this the other day and he actually brought this up. He was like, I just, it makes me sad because that Mumford is such a great example of, you know, you can only write that song as a dad.

38:56Matt Maher:you can only write from that perspective having your son say that and experience and i think it just bums me out because i'm like i love when we have sort of people that are older writing songs about things that only older people can write about and so i kind of lament that it's either by that time they're not doing music anymore or nobody's listening as much or they're not because it's just the industry has squeezed them out you know and it's kind of like no we we really and I'm like man to have you know like some of these later Paul Simon records have just had some of the most beautiful songs about being older and it just grieves me that like we don't we can't sit with those as well because you're just like yeah I'm not listening to him as much anymore but you're like gosh some of the stuff he's saying is really important to listen or even Tom Waits or whatever these artists that live into there and are still making music it's it's it's really important music to have, it's just not as sexy.

39:53Matt Maher:It's not as, it's a little more contemplative and it's a little more like you have to sit and really engage it in ways that you can't just listen at the pool. You got to sort of be like, okay, I need to like sit and be quiet and listen to this. You know, it's really important things, but it's just, there's not, we don't really have a place for that as much in our culture for sort of going like, you know, what is James Taylor singing about now? Or what is, you know, Stevie Wonder, whatever that artist that's a little into their older life, if they're even making records anymore because I'm not even sure they feel like it's important anymore.

40:25Matt Maher:Yeah. Yeah.

40:25Dave Barnes:And I would say if one of them is listening, it's so important. They all are.

40:32Dave Barnes:Frank Lloyd Wright is obviously one of the most celebrated architects in modern history. A lot of people don't realize that most of the significant work that he is still celebrated and known for, he made in the back half of his life.

40:55Jon McLaughlin:Oh, really?

40:56Dave Barnes:Yeah, so if you watch the Ken Burns documentary on Frank Lloyd Wright, I saw it on a flight. I was on a flight from Calgary to Vancouver, and I was with another artist who was older and was kind of questioning. We'd have a couple of side conversations, and you could tell they were trying to figure out, like, what am I doing? I'm starting to feel too old for this. I'm starting to feel like, I don't know. Like, I don't know my place. And so I'm watching this Ken Burns documentary. And Frank Lloyd Wright's a very, like, weird guy. This is not, like, not a bastion of humanity to hold up as a person.

41:34Dave Barnes:But like, but the point was, you know, Falling Water, which is the building outside of Pittsburgh, that's like, this house that's like, ridiculous, right? So, the story of that one, some guy who owns a, an auto dealership I think or a series of auto dealerships commissions Frank Lloyd Wright takes a bunch of interns goes to the place where the water the house is going to be in the waterfall and students are like taking a bunch of notes or whatever and then he leaves and goes back to to Wisconsin I think is where Taliesin was doesn't put pen to paper for months on end and the students are like what the heck is he doing he's like in the 70s I think at this point and he's just sitting there He's just kind of living life or whatever.

42:18Dave Barnes:And all of a sudden they get a telegram one day that says the guy's like, he's like driving up from Chicago and he'll be here in two hours. He's like, he reads it. He's like, okay. Walks over, picks up the pencil, starts drawing. Straight for two hours. Finishes the last shrub on the drawing as the car's pulling up the driveway. Drew the whole plan from start to finish with his hand. he had been drawing it in his brain for two years had his interns mapped the entire topography of the land he knew where every rock every tree every shrub was and the thing that he basically was internally processing was how do i make a house built on a cantilever which is the most ingenious thing about that house is it's built on this giant structure so one side of the weight bears the other side so it won't fall over but it hangs over the waterfall and the point is to your point is that I don't think a young man could do that.

43:18Dave Barnes:Yeah. Because that's just, it takes a lot of trial and error and lived, earned wisdom and experience. And it's like, and then he made the Guggenheim when he was 91 years old. And it's not, you know, I was thinking some of it's music, but some of it is just culture in general. Like all stuff is just keeps trending towards young people. And I do think that like we need, we need to find ways particularly in the arts and in things that make culture yeah to culture's best I think when it's multi-generational that's great I love that when we kind of we celebrate the wisdom and the perspective of the of the of the person who's been around a while you know man or woman who's lived through a lot of experiences and sort of the young fresh energy you know To even make a nerdier spiritual comparison, a lot of people don't know this, St.

44:17Dave Barnes:Peter's Cathedral has two arms. If you look at an overhead of the Cathedral of St. Peter in Rome, there's these two arms that sort of jut out. And the idea of that is that they were supposed to represent the arms of Mother Church. Wow. And one side is what they would call the charismatic side, and the other side was the institutional side. and so the institutional side is like what are the things that we've always kind of held on to and believed and how do we continue to consider those things and then the charismatic side was like here's where all the new fresh ideas come from and all the energy and all the vibrancy of youth and it's like you need both

44:56Matt Maher:that's good, that's really good

44:57Dave Barnes:you need both

44:58Matt Maher:so watch what I do here, speaking of vibrancy of youth there we go so how has, with what you've been doing you know vocationally what what does family look like with that like how have you navigated

45:13Dave Barnes:real quick what are the ages of your kids you have three kids three kids 14 12 and 10 yeah okay yeah

45:18Matt Maher:right around ours yeah so what does that look like how have you navigated that like how have

45:22Dave Barnes:y 'all both i mean so i would say i in my mind there's pre and post covet because covet was a real defining moment just in the sense that like you couldn't tour and so at the end of 2020 i I realized I'd spend more time in a row consecutively, more days with my family that year than in the previous 10. Like I looked back on my calendar and I was like, there was no moment in the previous 10 years when I was around my family this much. And I was like, this is insane. And what was the year like for you? It was hard. It was really, really hard. Some of it was incredibly beautiful, incredibly life-changing, um sweet uh you know had some yeah just some really really special moments i mean it was funny like my wife my wife turned 40 and we did we couldn't have our 40th birthday because it it was like it was may so i organized a drive-through birthday party and um my wife loves a good margarita so we literally had like a garbage bin full of ice and like drive-through margaritas so people would come by holding a sign so we organized like this whole caravan yeah and that's the last good birthday idea i've had and since you know i haven't had a good one in five years okay yeah one a decade is kind of what what what i seem to be a track in it you know i mean i think it's a lot of the similar things when you're married to someone who's in a vocational work it It could be music.

46:57Dave Barnes:It could be something else. Inevitably, you turn into a one-parent family for a certain period of time. It's just because of age and proximity. So kids that young, I just don't think they can really process the other parent who's on FaceTime or whatever. It's like you don't really – like you're still alive, but you're in another dimension. It's just like, oh, dad's over in the – he's in the upside down again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, you know, I think for 10 years, it's really that. It's like being married to someone who's willing to hold down the fort and keep the wheels moving. And then you're kind of trying to catch up as you go.

47:48Jon McLaughlin:Anyway, that was the last time that I ever drove backwards. But look, I'll admit, I didn't really think much about home security until we had kids. And then suddenly, like, bam, every little noise at night, I felt that significant. I didn't even say that. Well, there are a lot of raccoons. There are tons of raccoons. And if it's not a raccoon, you know, did we lock everything? Like, is the package still sitting on the porch? What about the bunnies, John? What about the bunnies? Are the bunnies getting loose? And that's why, Dave, we got Cove. and Cove has been a huge peace of mind shift for our family, especially the bunnies.

48:23Jon McLaughlin:Same here, John, without the bunnies.

48:24Matt Maher:They sleep like the bunnies. What I love most is just being able to check in any time. If I'm out, a package gets delivered, I get an alert. If there's motion at the door, I can pull up the live video right on my phone.

48:35Jon McLaughlin:A thousand percent. You know, we were out to dinner and we got a motion alert from the front door. Oh, gosh. Old me would have spiraled. No, not new, John. Instead, I just opened the app. I saw it was a neighbor dropping something off. Okay. You know? That was me. It was you. Saw you were shirtless. I wish you had at least had pants on. Stress was over in five seconds. I know. Thanks to Cove.

48:57Matt Maher:Did you stress in a new way, though? In a new way, yeah. You did. I've got to say, set up shockingly easy, John. I couldn't believe it. I thought I did it wrong. About 30 minutes to install, and I'm not exactly a renowned electrician. Not yet.

49:09Jon McLaughlin:Not yet. But you feel like you are with Cove. I am. Okay? And Cove is less than a dollar a day. For something that helps you sleep better at night, come on, that's worth it.

49:19Matt Maher:Make protecting your home a top priority. Check out Cove at covesmart.com slash dad or use code dad at checkout for up to 60. I almost said it wrong because I'm so surprised. It shocked me. Surely it's not 60 % off. Is this a for-profit? Exactly.

49:34Jon McLaughlin:60 % off your first order, John. And look, if you get a survey, please let them know you heard about Cove from Dadville Podcast.

49:51Matt Maher:hopefully built wardrobe comes down to pieces that mix well and last that's where quince shines premium fabrics considered design and everyday essentials that feel effortless to wear and dependable even as the seasons change you know why i love quince it has the everyday essentials i love with quality that lasts. Lightweight cashmere sweaters, linen shorts, tees, and 100 % Pima cotton. These are the versatile pieces that make a wardrobe actually work season to season. The reason the value is great is because Quince works directly with top factories and cuts out the middlemen. You're not paying for brand markup.

50:27Matt Maher:No, no, just quality clothing. Everything is built to hold up to regular wear and still look good. And they only partner with factories that meet rigorous standards for craftsmanship and ethical production. Those linen shorts I mentioned, they've become my go-to. I have four pairs. That's one more than three. They don't wrinkle like cheap linen does and they work with everything and they didn't cost a fortune either. Stop overcomplicating your wardrobe. You don't need a closet full options. You need a few pieces that actually work right now. Go to quince.com slash dadville for free shipping and 365 day returns.

51:01Matt Maher:That's a full year to build your wardrobe and love it. And you will. Now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last, you silly geese. Go to quince.com slash dadville for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash dadville.

51:25Jon McLaughlin:Did you have any sense of relief? relief like for me when the world shut down i felt like for the first time maybe the first time in my adult life i was like i'm allowed to just chill yeah it was the first time that i didn't feel

51:45Dave Barnes:that whatever that pull is i don't and i don't and i've i've sort of kind of discerned and met like been like okay where is this what is this is this my ego this sort of thing that needs me to Like venture out and keep going. And it's like, what's motivating me here? You know what I mean? Like what number on the Enneagram is this? And so it's just sort of like, what is it? And so for the first time, it felt like there was more of a dialogue where all of a sudden, oh, there's another voice in the room. And they're like, actually, I like being around. I like being weekends. I like weekends. I like making pancakes on Saturdays.

52:34Dave Barnes:I'd like to be considered more in the conversation. And so a lot of it's like giving yourself permission. Yes. Yeah. To welcome that voice into the room. Yeah. And actually weigh it and not squash it down for usually real, but usually very material concerns. Because it just usually ends up revolving around money. Right. for an artist yeah um because you're like i've got to go make money um it's like okay you do but um they're like some of this is also there's you know interesting thing is like you make money and then you spend money and so it's like you could also look at how you spend money while you're looking at how you make money right because you could change how you spend money too and and and that could also change how you make money so i think it's more built some of it's like going like oh i'm an adult i can have adult conversations like with myself with my spouse like we can work on this together and and so it's been a gradual process and so like for i would say 2020 to like 2023 uh touring was like almost non-existent um the only thing i think in 22 the only thing i did was I went to Europe for two weeks with Rent Collective.

53:57Dave Barnes:Oh, wow. Yeah.

53:59Matt Maher:I bet that was cool.

54:00Dave Barnes:It was a real blast, and it was also very weird. After being home for all of 2020 and 2021, I did probably, I don't know, 15 shows or events or something, and then all of a sudden, 2022, it was like some of us had new music coming out, and so we were like okay well it's and it's so hard uh i think some of it too is like when you're an artist who's touring a lot you usually have an infrastructure team a support team around you of like management and a tour manager or band members that normally play with you and uh and so then when you don't do anything for a year and then like you're trying to fire that back up and there's like black smoke coming out the rear right literally it won't turn give me a second just literally that's what it felt like phil i felt like that for a couple of years of just going and then and then saying okay am i even supposed to still be doing this so then i went through a whole period of going wow should i quit should i just quit touring um and just i don't know you know figure something else out um and you know i think my wife to her credit was a huge encouragement and supported me either way but i think she and my kids as they've gotten older like it's it's less of an individual conversation now it's more of a group conversation yeah yeah so it's more like hey uh dad has the opportunity to do this do we want to do this and sometimes they're like yes and other times they're like have fun right or other times they're like don't go and um wow and and we have to talk through it and it's you have to like i will say like it's a lot of trial and error yeah it's just a lot of trial and error and the one thing for me that I was able to weather early on,

56:08Dave Barnes:well, even in COVID, was because I had been very fortunate to sort of have a career as a songwriter. It gave me enough margin to say, okay, well, if I don't have to play a ton of shows right now because my band's all gone on and taken other gigs with other people, my tour manager. She got off the road altogether and like took a job working for a promoter so it was like i had i had a bit i had a bit of margin yeah um and i and i've had i've a manager i've had the same manager for 20 years and she's very supportive and it's been like kind of zero zero pressure no one's so it just feels like at a point now where it feels i would say it was a really tough 10 years of constantly feeling like you have to do the next thing because the next thing is somehow going to lead to the next thing that's going to change everything.

57:08Dave Barnes:And I don't know if I buy any of that anymore.

57:10Matt Maher:I don't know if there's a more articulate way to say what you just said. God, that's so built into every artist's experience. I really think you just nailed that.

57:21Dave Barnes:You know, it is. And it's a carrot. It's a golden carrot.

57:26Matt Maher:Listen, that 7.30 a.m. in Columbus. Local. That local TV thing. If we can get the video from that, we can use it for the pitch reel for Good Morning America. And if we can get you on Good Morning America, that's a Today Show. That's a Today Show. And then that. Today Show. Tonight Show. We'll get you to the Tonight Show. And now we're at a different time of the day, and that's a whole other kind of programming. It's just what a unbelievably baked into our experience for a job. Yeah, because it's,

57:56Dave Barnes:and the thing is, it's not related to the thing itself. Yeah. The thing's a mechanism. It's just, it's a, it's a, it's an avatar. It's a cantilever. It's a giant, it's a Frank Lloyd Wright cantilever. It's going to propel you into success.

58:13Jon McLaughlin:Into some other thing. So I have to ask, because you have a 14-year-old, do you have boy, girl, boy? Boy, girl, boy. So you got a 12-year-old girl? Mm-hmm. because Dave and I both, I have two daughters. Dave, same as you, boy, girl, boy, girl, boy. And we, I mean, we're in the throes of teenagehood. Wasteland. Wasteland, yeah. Which I was just telling Dave this morning before you got here, we were doing our prayer time. It is like, I mean, the lows are insane. And then the highs are insane. I mean, my wife and I were just looking at each other at dinner last night as we're having this great dinner with our girls after kind of a rough low time.

59:04Jon McLaughlin:And we're just like, I don't understand why it's so great right now, but let's just enjoy it right now. So what has it been like for you guys?

59:14Dave Barnes:Well, I mean, and I would say in relates to your previous question, because it's one of the things I've learned in my marriage is my wife will ask me something and I won't intentionally not answer it, but I'll end up not answering it. Yeah, yeah. So just to say, I think by the time we had three kids, it's like our oldest was what? Like 14 to 10. So it would have been like four, two, and zero. Or four, two, and newborn. And I feel like there are these almost thresholds in life. where as a family, you are in total chaos. And then you reach this point where it's like everyone can wash themselves relatively and they can pull up their own pants and they can use the bathroom or they can sleep on their own or they can go to...

1:00:11Dave Barnes:And so there's these thresholds and you have these moments where you look at each other and you're like, oh, wow, we just got a little bit more margin in life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then it's like six months... As soon as you say it. As soon as you say it, It's like, all right, time for the next challenge. That's so true. Yeah. I mean, I would say we are both kind of looking at the fact that, yeah, my oldest this week is on his first trip, first school trip. First time he ever left the house with a group of people gone until Friday night, left Monday, and stayed in a hotel room with like four guys.

1:00:53Dave Barnes:and uh and like we brought him to the airport and there was this moment where i'm walking with my oldest and he is terrified he doesn't want to go so i feel like you're like how's it going i'm like well the first thing i'm realizing is kids are just so anxious right now and it's some of it's just hard because like the reality is is that like i lived in a town of i lived in a city of 250 000 people but there was no internet there's no cell phones there's no social media so life is just so immediately shrunk and singular and most people's lives 40 years ago 35 years ago was very very immediate immediate yeah and for young people now they literally have more power than the u.s space program in their pocket and so and they can look up anything they can see anything unless obviously it's throttled.

1:01:49Dave Barnes:So that's the big thing for us. It's like the way two of our kids have phones that are both what's called Bark phones. Shameless plug for Bark. And it's basically a dumb phone. It's a phone with they can text and they can make calls and that's it. And there's no app store. There's no web browsing. There's no internet. when my son turned 12 we gave him this phone and he cried because he was terrified

1:02:22Jon McLaughlin:really?

1:02:23Dave Barnes:yeah because he had friends whose parents at school whose parents had given them phones that weren't throttled in any way and they were coming to school and telling stories and it was just terrified the daylights out of them geez so i would say like the first thing is the relationship with technology is a wild thing to navigate right now with kids my daughter is 12 going on 25 and she's like a method actor i feel like full-time everything she does she really wants to be an actress but like my wife and i

1:03:00Jon McLaughlin:are like she's total method school i think she's in the same theater program that my daughter is

1:03:05Dave Barnes:yeah yeah yeah loves it but like did uh cheerleading in the fall and it was like always like came home one day and like boom long hair like like highlights like the whole thing i was just like oh you're a cheerleader now she's like yes and like all her friends um it was this wild thing where it's like all of her friends have a nickname that ends with law so it's like uh is that no all their names are begin with a so it's like it's like abby ariel ashley like i mean it's just like this whole like list of nicknames and she did that all fall and then now in the spring now she's doing softball here in a ponytail and like she's just kind of like posturing herself like sort of like sideways like holding the glove.

1:04:02Dave Barnes:She's got a wicked arm on her too. She's chucking them. She's chucking them. But I would say you have two girls? Mm-hmm. It's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot. We have friends who have three teenage girls and they come to our house and they're like...

1:04:16Matt Maher:Quote, unquote, you have two girls? That's a lot. That's a lot.

1:04:17Dave Barnes:It's a lot of girls. It's just, I think it's, I would say, it is exponentially more complex and challenging for a young girl to be navigating the beginning throws of adolescence it is it is insanely complex the world that we've uh sort of constructed for them to navigate it's bad it's not great it's um it's really really hard and as a parent as a dad it's even harder because it's like every single thing i want to you want to intervene and then you're having a conversation like you can't call their parent like you can't do that you know so it's like someone will say something mean at school and your kid's like so-and-so said this and it's just like okay so what are we doing are we venting or are you wanting me to solve the problem right um and it's not it's not like bad like levels of bullying most of it's just like it's just relational kids like middle school kids be middle school kids right and so we're sort of at the beginning stages of that um i think the hardest thing to navigate for us is, yeah, like I said, it's anxiety.

1:05:27Dave Barnes:So kids are just more aware of the world. I mean, we started bombing our country and my kids are in the car in the minivan with my wife and I was out of town on Friday and I'm talking to her and the kids are like, hey, dad. I was like, yeah. And they're like, what did Iran do? I'm like, what do you mean? They're like, well, we're bombing it. So like, why? And I was like, oh, it's a much longer conversation.

1:05:48Jon McLaughlin:Isn't it crazy that the questions that they'll ask that you're like, that's such a great observation. That's the right question, but you're like, this is... And it's so simple. It's like, are we the good guys? I think my daughter asked that the other day about something. I'm like, I mean, I feel like I need to give you some kind of an answer right now, but I don't know. Sometimes I don't know. It's nuanced. It's very complex.

1:06:18Dave Barnes:Yeah, I think the thing is is that I don't want to give the answer sometimes that my parents gave me because sometimes I would walk into the kitchen and they would be talking about something and I'd be like, what's going on? And earlier on, it would be like, just be like, don't talk. Like you can sit here and listen, but don't talk. But as I got older, I mean, that was the one thing about growing up in the house that I did, like we talked about everything in my, but like I would say that I think my dad, like they didn't necessarily like talk about things to me as a kid in a way that I would understand.

1:06:53Dave Barnes:You know what I mean? So it's like, what's foreign policy? It's just sort of like trying to figure out a way to talk about things and a kid can actually process information. But it's also just kind of sad that it's like, oh man, it bums me out that you're having to grow up in this world.

1:07:13Matt Maher:Well, you know too, I think David and Sissy have said this, like learning what they're really asking.

1:07:19Jon McLaughlin:yeah you know i mean like having just learning how to only answer the question that they actually

1:07:26Dave Barnes:ask yes because often we give too much information and that's part of the problem is that i'm realizing like well my parent like there's a lot we never talked about you know what i mean like my youngest is 10 and so the way i do the talk as a dad is i do it in stages yeah yeah and so the first talks at 10 so i did it with my oldest and so it's like we're gonna go we're gonna go out to lunch and go eat lunch and i'm just gonna talk about you know how babies get made and then just let that hang out there and you know with my oldest it was literally i'll never forget this is the one time i have a video would help with the show is that like we're at hunter station and in east nashville and we're like eating tacos and he's got like a topo chico and and i'm just and I'm sort of telling him, okay, so this is, you know, baby's growing inside mom and then she has to push him out.

1:08:23Dave Barnes:And, you know, it's called labor. And he's just sitting there and all of a sudden he does the thing. His eyes went. And just took a giant swig of this Topo Chico. Like, this is a lot. He's like, I wish I had something a little harder. Yeah. but but to that point like beginning to talk about sexuality with a kid in a day and age when kids his age are being exposed to like like hyper exposed to like all forms of graphic entertainment whether it's violence or sexuality or language or whatever it is a wild thing to navigate and to do so much in a way that i love that i'm going to take that that you you answer

1:09:13Jon McLaughlin:the question that they're really asking well because i think like when you're you know

1:09:19Matt Maher:dad what's going on with iran you know that's probably as much as are we safe as it is i want i want to actually know what's happening do you know i mean and i think like i was that day i know somebody said that and one of our professionals we've had on kind of addressed like a lot of being a parent, especially in the kids' ages, because ours are around the same age, all three of ours, is knowing, oh, they're not really, they don't really care about that. They're really, what they're asking me is like, are we okay? Are we going to die? Or whatever, you know, whatever. And then knowing, oh yeah, you don't, I'm not going to regale you with what's happening.

1:09:55Matt Maher:Yeah.

1:09:55Dave Barnes:Let's talk about the Shaw in 1953. There you go. There we go.

1:09:59Jon McLaughlin:Well, and my daughter, one of the questions that she asked was, you know, would they ever bomb here? Would someone ever, you know, bomb here? Yeah. Which is a simple question. Yeah. But it's like, I mean, the answer is like technically, well, yeah, they could. I mean, yeah. Do I say that or do, or do I just say, do I play the odds and be like, no, that's not gonna happen.

1:10:22Matt Maher:Yeah.

1:10:22Jon McLaughlin:You know?

1:10:23Matt Maher:Yeah. Yeah. That, that was something that, um, after the shooting at Covenant that Sissy really doubled down on. She was like, Hey, cause you know, that day when we gathered at the church, we were waiting for the kids coming in. She was like, listen, this is where it's kind of okay to lie and not that it's lying, but man, you're probably, you know, when they say, is this going to happen again? Just say no. Like you're probably going to be right. I mean, look, this was, of course we just saw what happened this morning, but you have those moments in parenting where you're kind of like, you know, I'm just going to hedge my bets on, you know, no, they're not, honey.

1:11:01Matt Maher:They're not. That's never really happened in America. Probably won't happen right now, especially in Nashville. But it's weird as a parent because it feels so dishonest. It feels like, well, and then, you know, Lord knows if it happens, they're like, wait, you said. But again, it's just like.

1:11:17Jon McLaughlin:You know, it's funny. I mean, this takes it into a lighter area, but my oldest is 13. She'll be 14 this year. and she said to me yesterday, she was like, I cannot wait to drive. And I'm like, that's great. I mean, inside I'm like terrified. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I was like, I was the same. I remember, I can viscerally remember getting my license, dropping my mom off at home and just driving that 89 Pontiac Bonneville around. Yeah, baby. Just looking like. With the sub in the back. broken but that's where i'm like okay i'm gonna go the opposite way i'm going to tell you how dangerous driving is yeah and i was like it's funny because we worry about so many things that if we're just looking at the stats girl what we're doing right now is probably the most dangerous thing you're gonna do for a long time yeah you know you're worried about that flight you're getting on on friday this is more dangerous so i'm like leaning the other way i'm like i want her to be freaked out about driving.

1:12:26Jon McLaughlin:And don't get me started on processed foods.

1:12:30Matt Maher:Oh, you think that's bad? How's that Oreo, honey? She's like, well, I'll push through. I'll find a way.

1:12:36Dave Barnes:Yeah, so there was this moment when we dropped off our oldest at the airport and he wanted us to hang out until he went through security. But there was this moment where he was like, I'm just so nervous. And I was thinking to myself, I'm like, what are you nervous what's this really about and then he someone called his name and he looked up and he saw his friend and he just like all of a sudden this pace picked up and all of a sudden he was like just like eclipsing see ya yeah see ya and it literally triggered this memory that um uh during covid one of the things that happened was i taught my son how to ride a bike wow and so um he was old he was much older most kids learn a lot younger but for whatever reason like he never really it just never really happened and it was like i think it was it was either it was 2020 he uh and so we're down at the air park and we're running around and all of a sudden like there was this moment where you let go and you realize they're too far away from you that you won't be able to catch them i was like if he bails right now he is going to feel the full weight of it and i was like i never felt a more visceral time in my life where i realized what letting go feels like really as a parent wow where your kids are just like, okay, you really, like, this is life.

1:14:12Dave Barnes:Like, it felt like a real teaching moment where God was just sort of saying, like, this is a metaphor for life. Like, you're never really in control. They're always kind of just outside. A little too far. A little too far away from it. And it's more about, are you okay letting go? Are you okay kind of sitting with this? And it was literally like the same thing. Like, I felt like I was like, am I in a MasterCard commercial? Like, what is happening? Are we going to fast forward and he's going to be like, I'm going to be in the back of the church with them. And they, you know, I was wild. So, yeah, I mean, I would say, you know, we're navigating it, I think, as well as any pair of parents who love each other and love our kids

1:15:03Dave Barnes:and want our kids to grow up to be the people that God wants them to be. I'm continually blown away by all of them in terms of the people that I see them becoming.

1:15:22Dave Barnes:And love sort of encouraging their own curiosity and their own... So I can tell they all three have very distinctly different relationships with God. Like I can already tell. Isn't that interesting? And the youngest is the most, probably the most private about it, but probably the most sensitive, I think.

1:15:46Dave Barnes:But it's really beautiful to watch. But I think my oldest takes his faith very, that's the oldest child thing, I think. He bears the weight of the world on his shoulders. And so, yeah, because he goes to a Catholic school, so I went and talked to one of the Nashville Dominicans here in town and teach there. And it's like I went and talked to one of them saying, can you please talk to him about, there's a condition called scrupulosity where you essentially like you're spiritually nitpicking every single thing that you do so it's like you're never like you're never really forgiven like you're never there's never really a point where you're you've out sinned yeah like it's like you've somehow exhausted the mercy of God and it and it would like we I would sit down I was just like do you feel too much pressure from us He goes, no, it's not.

1:16:36Dave Barnes:And it's just, and so I went and talked to the sister. She goes, no, it's just some people are just like this. Yeah, yeah. And some of it actually comes from where, and the thing I've learned is that it's actually, he's really that good. He's so close to nailing it. He's so much more in tune with what it means to take this seriously that he can't tolerate the moments in himself when he does it.

1:17:03Matt Maher:yeah isn't it funny to your point that's another it's another exact example of they're just a little outside of your reach like when they start turning into who they really are and your grasp doesn't extend to now who they are they really are their own planet yeah and they're becoming that and they're outside of under your wings and you're like oh my gosh they're turning into this person totally outside of who my wife and I are. And it's so beautiful. But it's like, again, it's exactly the same. It's not that you ever had control over who they are, but man, you really realize in that moment, like, oh, the trajectory's set.

1:17:41Matt Maher:They're blasting off. And I really just get to sort of go, okay, I mean, I guess I'm sort of a part of who you're becoming, but now you're really becoming it.

1:17:50Dave Barnes:Yeah, and honestly, it's made me, I think, in a healthy way. relish the opportunities and moments I have now and sort of like kind of re-bolster the willingness to fight for it, to fight for it as a priority. Like I annoy the crap out of my team now because when we start talking about touring, I'm like, guys, four years. I got four years. I have four summers left. I have to, you know, they'll be like, oh, we're going to get a date. this office i'm like driver's ed's in the fall he's he's learning how to drive i gotta teach him how to drive stick starting august yeah and and so much of my life right now is like i'm realizing that when you start in music um you really end up finding people like even even my wife kristin a big part of the reason why we meshed was she loved what i did she didn't feel threatened by what i did and she was supportive of it and there is early on you're sort of like when you're really trying to go for it you're you're kind of organizing your life around your career yeah you're trying to fit everything you're fitting family you're fitting like you're changing birthdays you're doing and still to this day stuff like that happens yeah um but there was this real shift where all of a sudden i just kind of realized no i i need to restructure everything in my life around my family yeah yeah because because none of this will exist none of this will make any sense it it won't be real it'll it'll be something else yeah but it won't be what i want it to be yeah and so it that has required like my wife is this is a superhero she's superhuman she's just an incredible incredible woman i mean i i um and so much about like our kids i genuinely that's the thing like i love being with my kids i love hanging out with them um my youngest last night we like it was just him and i and we started watching there's a

1:20:02Matt Maher:show called gravity falls oh my gosh my kids love that yeah we just started watching it it's so funny

1:20:07Dave Barnes:and it um it's hysterical and so you know it there are these moments where i'm like my wife had a lot more of them she was just so much more early on really in tune with every aspect and i've been kind of playing a bit of catch up in some ways and there's stuff that i've always done like my old i played volleyball all through college and uh or all through high school for first couple years i played club and so my two boys are both playing club volleyball before release you anything you need to what you got going on

1:20:42Matt Maher:people need to know about I have

1:20:45Dave Barnes:I mean this yeah this is a whole I'm in a whole new season so after almost 18 years with the same record label I'm now independent wow

1:20:56Jon McLaughlin:come and join us watch that's new

1:20:58Dave Barnes:very new yeah yeah so I'm really excited like working on working on a bunch of new bunch of new stuff and really really excited yeah just really I mean I'm excited about this next season of creativity so I think by this point hopefully by this time I'll have a new song out if not because I don't know when this is going to air yeah we probably won't I have a new song out it just came out it's just brand new I finished it yesterday what's it called? it's called Gonna Be Alright I already like it yeah yeah Yeah, you know what's funny? I was at a writing camp, and you start writing a song, and you immediately, as an artist, there's this part of you that goes, ooh, ooh, right.

1:21:50Dave Barnes:Yeah, it's like, I don't know if I'm coveting this. I don't know if I'm coveting my own creativity. But it's like, yeah, I saw it was pleasing to the eye. So I kind of gravitated to it. It felt like a natural extension of something I would want to say. and um and so then uh kind of towards the end of the year i just reached out to um a producer named jeff pardo i love jeff who i've known for years and we'd never done anything together wow and we live like 10 minutes apart and so it's just like hey i got this song i i want to record it um i can't come by and play for you and i and so i came by and he was like you know he's doing the thing.

1:22:36Dave Barnes:I was like, so what are you doing? So what's going on? And I said, well, you know, I'm out of my deal and I think I'm just going to kind of pursue being independent right now. And so I played him a bunch of songs and that was like the second one to play. And I played him the first one which is this song that like the artist in me loves. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I like what it says but it's kind of slightly more earnest and this is just like a fun song. Yeah. And he goes, oh no, dude, that's the song. And I was like, I was like, I really like it. I was like, but do you think he goes, dude, he goes, that's what people need to hear right now.

1:23:10Dave Barnes:And it's this sort of this realization of like, how do you fight negativity and how do you fight? There's this automatic assumption that like you fight resistance with like equal resistance. And that, so some of it, it's like I'm realizing it's like being, so being a dad, if you're raised in a house where your dad yells at you, he's not just yelling at you. He's, he's, he's, he's giving you data on this is what you're supposed to do to assert your point. and so uh i one of the things i learned a lot in the past five years and reflecting with my kids is it's like whatever emotion they're coming at me with i actually don't need to meet it with the same emotion i need to if it's a negative one it's like i'm gonna i need to like judo chop this thing yeah yeah and come at it from a different way yeah that's great and um and that's the thing in parenting that you do a lot of tag teaming yeah like my heart goes out for single parents i don't know how they manage to do it because there's so many times where with my daughter you know my wife will be like i'm out and i will be too and then with one of our kids it's like i'll be like i he's i don't i didn't know there was a button there but he found it pushed it and i'm gonna walk away so um so i feel like in this age when it's like there's so much negativity and And there's something to me that feels almost like using joy as a bit of resistance.

1:24:44Dave Barnes:Yeah. Yeah. That's great. So it's out. I'm looking forward to it.

1:24:48Matt Maher:Everybody listen to it. Matt, thank you for spending your time this year. Thanks for coming by.

1:24:52Dave Barnes:Thanks for having me. I'll come back anytime. Talk more about fishing.

1:25:06Matt Maher:Thought Sweetgreen was just salads? Think again. There's a new way to do Sweetgreen. Wrapped and ready. These handheld wraps pack bold flavor and 40 plus grams of protein into something hearty, satisfying, and built for life on the go. From craveable sauces to satisfying textures, they're designed to keep you going without slowing you down. So put that fork down. Try the new wraps today in app or at order.sweetgreen.com. Available at participating locations only.

1:25:37Dave Barnes:It's time your hard-earned money works harder for you. With the Wealthfront Cash Account, your uninvested cash can earn up to 3.95 % APY. That's a 0.65 % boost over an already high rate for three months, just for being a new client. Plus, free instant withdrawals to eligible accounts. Start today at Wealthfront.com. 3.3 % base APY via Program Banks as of January 30th, 2026. It is representative variable, requires no minimum, and is earned on funds swept to Program Banks. boosted up to$150 ,000. Cash account offered by Wealthfront Brokerage LLC member FINRA SIPC, not a bank.