Pure Athlete: Why Dads Cuss

26:12And I would venture to say that most people thought, there's a calm dad. He's got a good perspective. If they could have seen what was going on inside me and the churn and my career life before every tournament, please help me. Why is that guy in his car crying? It's like, just walk by. Give him time. It's just, it's just, it's just, it's just tough. I mean, it just, it just is. And that reveals a lot of stuff about, about us and where our priorities are. Yeah. And, um, and so on and so forth. And you mentioned your wife. Uh, I mean, you know, thank, thank God for my wife, but I didn't always like it.

27:02Cause she could always, she was always the one who was, she doesn't, she's not super into sports. and so she was always the one like hey buddy you you need to get it together you're being way too hard you're talking you're talking about this all the time yeah yeah yeah and uh it was a good good

27:22Jon McLaughlin:chat i want to ask like a a very sort of like back up 10 000 feet ask a very simplified question that i kind of feel like i almost skip over even asking i almost just answer it and assume that youth sports has changed. I have two daughters, 12 and 10, and they're definitely theater girls, but they're both big soccer players as well. So we're in this world. My youngest plays on a travel team now. But when I think back on my own experience growing up, and I was a swimmer, I swam year-round, I'm like if I look at the schedule that I had growing up at least on the calendar it doesn't seem like things have notched up it's you know and maybe I had a unique experience I don't know I didn't go on to like swim in college or anything like that so to me I felt like I had a pretty just you know mainstream sports upbringing but has what what are the differences that you guys have noticed between 2025 and maybe back 25 years ago or when you guys were growing up, have things actually changed in that they've notched up in intensity and expectation and pressure, et cetera, et cetera?

28:53100%. You think so? 100%.

28:56Jon McLaughlin:And what are the ways that they're different? Well, I'll throw a few in, Brad. You can throw a few in as well. You know, many of our guests are either pro athletes or have recently retired pro athletes like Jeff, who's 41 years old. So, John, we will not be getting that invite. Just I want to get that clear. Go ahead, Britt. That's your time. I do have some videos of us on the tennis court that I'm going to send in. Some swimming videos.

29:26Hey, we've had some swimmers. We've had three or four swimmers. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. on our, on our show. Um, you know, number one, uh, many of those athletes talk about, you know, when baseball season was over, I moved to football and when football was over, I moved to this. And then I went to, you know, we always played whatever sport was in season and we get, you know, we post a lot of these things cause we talk about specialization a lot. Yeah. The specialization is the biggest, is probably the biggest difference maker, versus where we were 20 years ago. And 20 years ago, there was specialization, you know, if you're a gymnast, and there was specialization at early ages in some individual sports, but not so much in mainstream sports.

30:11And today, specialization is, you know, eight years old. You know, you need to specialize in baseball, and also you need to play year-round. You need to play 12 months a year. And that just wasn't the case. you know certainly when brad and i were growing up yeah which is you know a lot way before when you guys were but but even probably when you were growing up that really wasn't the the pressure to do that uh was not there and high school coaches were not putting and you know the club the club environment has exploded and and there were some but not like it is today travel ball not anything close to what it is today.

30:53And it's easy to say it's just a money grab by everybody, and it is big business.

30:59Jon McLaughlin:Well, that's my question is, what started the change? Is it that there were just all these kind of club, specialized club leagues that started up who, you know, they only function if they've got dollars coming in? Or what was the sort of like impetus for this change. Brad, do you want to take that? Well, I think, I think the main difference that I see, and I think, you know, it's, it's supply and demand. I think what's changed and I'm sure it's a generational thing from, you know, the greatest generation to, you know, the next generation after that. And, but I think back in the day when you played rec sports or you played sports as a kid, it was just really, you were playing, you were still playing.

31:51I mean, there were, there were some kids that were better than others. The athletes that were the better athletes just kind of, you know, always were the better athletes. The teams didn't change a whole lot. And then you got to high school and some kids dropped out and the better athletes kept getting better. It seems somewhere along the way it became, there was an agenda that became part of this experience. And I'm not sure if it's driven. I think it was probably driven by parents, which generation it was. I'm not sure. But now it seems like when your kid starts playing sports, it's got to be part of a bigger plan and a goal.

32:22Now you're training. Yeah, you're training. You're looking at, you're watching your kid. Which team are they on? Which level are they playing at? How did they do in that game? Are they going to lose their spot on this travel team? Are they going to make the higher level travel team next year? Because what is the ultimate goal? It could be just to make your high school team. In some areas, it's really competitive to make your high school team. In other areas, it's like, we've got to play college. You've got to get a scholarship. And so every step along the way, starting at crazy young ages and certain sports like swimming and gymnastics is even younger.

32:54You know, everything that everything that kid is doing is part of this plan to get the ultimate goal. I think back in the day, it was just you really were playing, you know. Yeah. There may have been some internal stress that you put on yourself as a kid or just how you're wired. But the institution was not adding to that stress. And I think the money came along because I think at a certain point, certain parents felt like their kid was not getting enough competition at the rec level, and they wanted to go look for better competition. And it used to be that would happen in all-stars or that would happen in swimming.

33:31You'd go to maybe a state championship and kind of see where you were. And now it's just happening at every level. And so I think that was just a supply and demand situation where club sports and travel sports and all these organizations were, you know, reaction to parents wanting that thing that would help their kids achieve that goal. Yeah. You know, and whose goal was. Yeah. And specialization was a big part of that. But I mean, if you had if you were Jeff Francoeur, you could be a D1 athlete and still play every sport. It's tougher if your kid's not in that top five percent and wants to make their high school team and is just on the borderline.

34:06And I don't, you know, we talk about this all the time. At a certain point, they probably need to specialize to make that team if they're not just a superstar. Now, I wouldn't do it until high school, you know, or right before high school. Well, you guys have spoken to also how troubling it is that, and I thought this was really articulate. In fact, Brad, I think you said this in a clip I watched where you're saying. Don't tell Brad how articulate it is. It feels articulate. It feels articulate. It feels articulate. It feels articulate. I said it. I'm pretty sure. Jeff said this in Spanish, which was doubly impressive because it was wise and bilingual.

34:38He didn't speak enough English. French maybe. But you said how troubling it is when youth sports really tends to mirror collegiate and professional. And I thought that was really profound because to exactly what you guys are speaking of right now, it's just these are kids that are trying to play. I think the things that are so tricky about it that I've noticed, and I think every major market in America probably has this tension is the growing separation between rec and club. And so I think for kids, sorry, for parents who have kids that, you know, that's an easy choice when your kid just really wants to go have fun and they have no sports aspirations at all.

35:19Because it's like put them in rec and let them have a great time. And it's awesome. They practice once a week. They can go run around, be with some of their friends. But if you and then if you have a kid who really wants to specialize and really have a gift for that, well, then, you know, you can do the problem. I think with most and this is probably 90 percent of America, because, you know, like John and I were talking about what what percentage of kids actually become athletes has got to be in the single percentages, you know. So really that means that 90 % of America lives in the middle, which is like no matter their kids' ability, they're probably not going to play collegiate or especially pro, but they're better and they're more maybe aggressive than rec.

36:01And so then you're like, well, gosh, the jump over is immense because it's going from one practice a week with the team. You're kind of like, ugh, I don't want to do it, to like, oh, thousands of dollars a year to play, two to three practices a week. Every weekend you have a game. And so that was something that my wife and I have walked through with our boys. It's kind of like, look, I help teach a Sunday school. I kind of can't miss, which is great for me because it keeps me buckling in whether I like it or not. and so you know we we've and and we have a great i'm we're so thankful this this year but what we've had to do is just go to coaches and say hey look you tell us how you're going to do this this is where we are ben is a great player he made your team we're excited but like this is how and if that means we need to do something else we will do something else and by god's infinite grace this season the team he's on the coach was like no thank you for telling us we don't have a problem with that just let us know you know are you cool with this pattern of wednesday nights because Ben has really gravitated toward our church, thank God, that he loves youth groups.

37:02That's the other dilemma we have is he's really starting to go like, hey, church is fun. And we're like, oh my gosh, don't lose that. But again, we're so thankful. The coach was like, no, thank you for telling us. And hey, let's just, and we're going to miss every other Wednesday we're trying. And we were just so thankful that that was, but that's not every team. And some are like, hey, man, if you're going to do this.

37:24Jon McLaughlin:Do you think somewhere there's a sports podcast where they're talking about how the church is getting too intense or the church is getting in the way of sports too many church services wednesday night there's i don't there's a lot of church there's a lot of church podcasts out there maybe we'll know about but you know to y 'all's point i just think it's i just really grieve for the season that we're in not just that it looks so much like college sports but that kids don't there's just really not much of a choice anymore there's no either you're gonna middle ground yeah Do you think that there is a growing market there that like, you know, a couple of years in the future with supply and demand, there will be some sort of, you know, middle ground for that middle 90 % that'll come out that's some kind of hybrid of intensity?

38:14I mean, there's a lot of discussion right now in, you know, youth sports world about the issues. And one of the biggest issues is, you know, is losing the fun. And rec sports is a big piece of that. We just had a guy on our show who is an executive at ESPN, and they have a new initiative called Take Back Sports, which is a youth sports initiative. Wow, geez. Same guy heading that up, heads up the V Foundation and all they're doing there. And Steph Curry's organization is involved in this with them and others. And the resurgence of rec sports is a goal. Now, it's not an easy goal. You don't just go, boom, let's start back rec sports.

39:09because it, you know, in fairness, I mean, rec sports didn't get turned off overnight. And I know there's still rec sports in different areas, but, but as more and more kids started gravitating to club and to travel, then, then more and more kids leave rec sports because it's like, well, there's not good competition there. I mean, there's only two kids on the baseball team who can catch the baseball. So it's holding my kid back from being able to, you know, all those types of things. So rebuilding that is not an easy task.

39:46Jon McLaughlin:Yeah. But we also have 70 % of kids who play sports quit by the age of 13. Welcome to the Raising Boys and Girls podcast. I'm David Thomas. And I'm Sissy Goff. And we are therapists who've been practicing with kids and families for over 30 years. And in each episode of our podcast, we're going to share some of what we're learning in this work that we do with kids and families on a daily basis. Our goal is to help you care for the kids in your life with a little more understanding, a little more practical help, and a whole lot of hope. We are honored to invite you to join us on this journey of raising boys and girls.

40:27Britt, I'm so glad you brought this up. Because it dovetails so well with what you're saying. And that's, that's another thing I wanted to ask you guys about is, you know, to your point, the stats for this are crazy. I mean, you guys would know it more intimately than we do, but you know, we've had athletes on and they've talked about this where kids are burning out at like 15, 14, 13, which is crazy to think about at that age. Or, you know, that you see your kid, you know, uh, uh, get all the way to where they get the scholarship and they're like, yeah, I don't want to do this. And you're like, we spent all this time investing for you to do this.

41:01And so can y 'all speak to, cause I know this is something you guys really have as a platform on the show. Um, do just mental health with kids, like what is this culture, this youth, the intensity of youth sports. And I think especially knowing so many parents listen, this podcast, like what is the word you can give those parents as they're navigating this around mental health and what y 'all are seeing, uh, in that culture now? I think, I think we, there's some kids, you know, like all of us, some of us are just born wired to have, you know, some anxiety or have some stress. I mean, some of it's just, you know, you're in your God-given DNA.

41:35But I would tell parents, do not add to that. I think the key word, the cheat code, I think, for a parent and hopefully for a kid is awareness. If God can place in your relationship an awareness of where this journey really is going to kind of end, the earlier the better, then you can kind of reverse engineer it and kind of go, okay, like you talked about your daughters play soccer. If they say, look, we love soccer. We like to play in high school, but really, I don't think I'm going to play in college. I love theater. I think I want to major in this. Then you can kind of look at your journey with a perspective.

42:08You know, what I see in the high school space is typically the junior year, even the driven athletes or junior year, most of the time is when they make a decision. Like they kind of realize there's, there's, they love sports so much that they want to play in college or they, or they want the freedom that they would get for not being a college athlete. and a lot of times you're like you know if you could have come to that decision or help them come to that decision earlier or they are or listen to them maybe and parents don't listen to them that they really came to that decision but they're afraid to tell you that they came to that decision then i think your journey can be so much healthier and i mean there's standards that there's standards to play for your high school team there's standards to get a college scholarship it's it's one percent now i think brett you can correct me but i mean i think it's one percent are getting some sort of college scholarship.

42:54Jon McLaughlin:1 % of high school athletes are getting an athletic scholarship. That's crazy. Yeah, I mean, the scholarship scenario is changing. I'll say this. There's like a little less than 7 % of high school players play in college. Now, obviously, many of those don't get scholarships. That's D3. Yeah, that's JUTO, D3, NAIA, everywhere. It's like 1 % play D1, and that's shrinking. And way less than 1 % ever play pro or earn a penny from sports. So I do think, to Brad's point, if you're a parent and you think that your kid and they're 10 years old and you think that they could be a pro, you're probably wrong.

43:49Even at 10 years old, you're probably wrong. the statistics say you're wrong and well and what's funny is like you know i was thinking

43:56Jon McLaughlin:about this when we were talking about the tough sell of like bringing a rec league back mainstream is like i mean when i was 10 years old i i was destined for the nba i mean 99 of 10 year old boys in indiana are like no well it'll be i'll be on the pacers you know it'll take some time but I'll get there. You may be the sixth man. I'll ride the bench for a little bit. We don't want to squat. I love when your kids dream. Don't ever tell them. I would never tell them, you know, only 1 % make it. I would love them to have big dreams. Have big dreams. But as a parent, parent them with a reality that, hey, dude, your dad's 5 '10", and he's got a 10-inch vertical jump.

44:43You're probably not going to be in the NBA. Why did you look at me when you said that? I was talking about Britt on me.

44:50Jon McLaughlin:Or you could talk to my daughters and be like, sweetie, your dad would love to be 5 '10". I mean, I'm shrunken with age, so I'm probably more like 5 '9 now. No, but going back to the mental health question, it's a great question, and it's heartbreaking, though. I think it's, like Britt talked about, you want to pray for that relationship. And if you have that relationship, your kids are going to come to you when they struggle. And I'm very, very blessed that all my kids are great communicators. And I think my wife and I created a safe space to where they can come and say, hey, I'm really, really struggling with this, whether it's whatever space that's in.

45:29But where it gets heartbreaking is if that parent doesn't allow that space to exist. And that parent is so myopic about this journey and this goal and whatever their reasons are. and then that kid is struggling in that mental health space because their parents are not helping that situation. I feel like it's such an interesting thing to navigate because I think everybody in the world, in this sports world, especially in America, would understand the idea of like, man, it's just such a part of our American culture. It's like when you've said you're going to do it, we're going to do it. If you're going to be on the team, you finish the season.

46:05It doesn't matter if you lose every game. And some part of that is really beautiful. Like there's a commitment thing you're showing your kid. But I think we've just really worn that trope out where it's like, if your kid is coming to you and like, Hey, I'm failing in school cause I can't get my homework done. I'm stressed out of my mind and I don't think I'm enjoying this. Well, no son. It's like, Hey, it might be worth taking a TO and just going, you know, bud, maybe, maybe we just need to, to, to take a break this year from the rest of baseball and let's get school back on track and whatever.

46:34But I think, and I mean, I hate to say this, I would say it's just as bad in Christendom because then it's like, you're not using your talents the way or this is the word and our word is our bond and god tells us that when we say yes it has to be yes but i'm like i don't know that we're using these things in the right context and so your point brad and i love this again i think this is such a powerful part of y 'all's uh of y 'all's messaging is you know you want to be growing closer to your kid you'll be listening to your kid it's about the relationship with your kid it's not about is is my kid finishing the season out is he is he given everything he came to the team sure that's part of it.

47:08But I think like our part is as parents, as you guys are enunciating so well, it's like, man, if I'm picking up cues, our priority is our, is our kids health and mental health and spiritual health. And if he's, or she is getting fried, well, then it may be good to say, Hey, let's just, well, let's, I'll just, I'll talk to the coach. It may be a hard conversation, but I think this is better for you. And I think there's something about that that's in the water of not just being an American, but I think even in Christendom in America, which is like this thing of like, when we've said yes, we say yes.

47:37And I'm like, guys, I don't, I don't know that Jesus is sitting in the room. He's going, yeah, Brad, you tell her. She said she was going to do this. It doesn't matter that she's crying, you know, like just tell her. And you know, each of these things, again, as you guys said, it's something you have to deal with real time to your specific situation where the spirit's leading. But I do think, and it speaks to, and you guys have said this so well, again, I'm so appreciative for how y 'all think about these things. But so much of it is the end goal, you know, and it's like, what are we trying to do?

48:07Are we trying to play? Because I think what happens, and I'm guilty as to is, you just never stop to think about it. You know, you're just kind of going, and you're making all these decisions without a real thought of like, hold on. Hey, bud, what is it you want to do? Well, I don't even know. Oh, well, then we should probably talk about that. Or if he's like, hey, I really want to, I really want to make the high school team. It's like, great. Okay, that's a great, we know that trajectory let's do the best we can to get you there in a healthy and and happy way you know and we're all involved but if but if you aren't i just i know for me you just kind of you're doing it because you do it and your friends are doing it and the kids are where they were on the team we're going to do it again this year it's like well hold on we should probably pow well what we're trying to achieve here because i think the other thing that's so funny about this other thing is i have a really dear friend of mine who played collegiate football and he said something i thought was so profound we were in a bible study together and he said you know the craziest thing about youth sports is you you are playing something until you're not and then you're not anymore and it's gone there's not you don't there's no letters that come in the mail there's no commendations and he's like you know after I decided I don't want to play football anymore in college I woke up the next day and it was done like it's just done it is down the river and he's like did I have lessons absolutely and friendships absolutely but it's done you know you don't really have something you're sort of carrying, you know, you aren't, then you go work at Allstate.

49:25It's like, you know, there's not, it's, I think the thing that parents have to remember too, is like, you know, this thing does have an ending. And to your point for the 99 % of us, it really has an ending. And so I think there is some wisdom again, as you guys said, to have an eye on where are we going with this? Like what's our plan? Because at some point this is going to end and we want our kid to have more than just the money and stuff we spent on it, But, you know, but to have an agreement on what we're trying to do and then we can celebrate the journey and where it ended, you know. I mean, that's such a huge point because that's that really gets to the crux of what happens in many of our families is for our kids is that their identity becomes an athlete and everything is dominated by sports.

50:10And and then it ends. Yeah. And so as a parent, you know, you have to step back and say, what's our overarching parenting goal for our kids? And sports should fall up under that and should support that. It should not be that. And so I think, you know, we have five pillars of a pure athlete. And the first one is vision. And it is the whole idea about what's the why and, you know, and where, what's the destination you're trying to get toward and how do you goal set to achieve that? And the goal, the, the goal may just be having fun. Yeah, that's great. Getting back to mental health. I mean, sports should be a respite to everything else in life.

50:57Now, that doesn't mean that you don't work hard and that doesn't mean you don't deal with adversity in sports and run the second you see adversity and all those types of things. No, you know, it's a great it's a great teacher in a lot of those kinds of things. But at the end of the day, if sports is just one more burden that you're laying on top of, on the back of your kids and, you know, stresses them out and they're not performing the way they want to, and they're disappointing their parents and they're, you know, you know, you need to take that back. That's not healthy. and you don't want to wait until it's too late and your kid's really, really struggling and needs help.

51:42And that happens all the time. And just to clarify something, just so you guys know that, I mean, we love, I mean, kids are, I think kids are wired, even girls, you know, just as much as are wired to want to win. They're wired to want to compete. They're wired to want to play rough. And it's like, it's when the parents kind of get in the way that we screw things up. You know, like we're not trying to say like your kids should not go out there and try to win, you know, or give 110 percent or work hard. It's just I think when it becomes more institutionalized at whatever age that is. And maybe high school is that age it should be.

52:21But we kind of get in it. Oh, well, OK, you want to you think you want to do this? OK, let me get involved and let's let's organize this and this and this. And a lot of times, man, the concept we had an expert on talking about free play and just letting these kids, they're wired to want to go out there and compete. Watch at recess. Watch them on the playground. I mean, they'll organize themselves. And they'll fight to the death to win a touch football game on the playground or kickball, whatever you want to say. And God's wired them that way. So we're not trying to change that. we're just trying to let that that that phase in life last as long as possible and like brit said i mean the goal is like i mean what you know be praying for what god's plan is and for your life and if it's for your plan to be a great athlete and use that as a you know platform and testimony awesome but you know let's see what happens because it's a lot a lot of things change after puberty too that's a great a lot of it's so much in just how he how he wired you and not just athletically.

53:20Britt jokes about this all the time. We both read Tim Tebow's book and we're looking at our kids like, why aren't you out there doing a thousand pushups every day? This should motivate you. It motivated me. I got motivated reading this book. Not that I did a thousand pushups after reading it, but I got motivated for my kid to do a thousand pushups. God wired Tim Tebow that way. You're like, come on. You look at him. It wasn't even like that he's a physical freak he's got he's just wired you know he's obsessed with with working out and you can't make your kid become that they have to they have to make that decision for themselves you know something we had david pollock on and he he boy did he harp on that which was amazing well in two things to your point brad it's like he said one there's gonna be physical things that nobody controls he's like you know i grew over one summer and i went from basically nobody cared the coach was like, hey, well, son, can I talk to you in my office?

54:14And he's like, and then it really sparked this thing in me, and then I went on to play at the professional level. But I think the other thing that we talked about with him that I think is such an important thing, especially for the church, is that we, and I mean I do this in every aspect of my life, but I see it here too, is we just forget that God's going to accomplish his will. And I think as a parent, it's such a beautiful place we come from, this feeling, but it's also really detrimental is that it's up to us. for my kid, for my girl to get that volleyball scholarship. God has put it on meat.

54:47And I'm like, no, that's woo-woo. And something that so many athletes that we have had on this pod, and it makes me so happy when they say this, is they're like, hey, if you're good and it's what's supposed to happen, it's going to happen. Like, you know, you can, real talent tends to shine through. You know, those people land where they're supposed to be. And so this idea that if I don't have them and if they don't do the, and I got to get them in this kind of, and I'm like, guys, have we forgot that like, this is, God does crazy things. Like he can, if he wants your kid to play collegiate, they'll play collegiate.

55:21If he wants them to play professional, they will play professional. God has a way. And so I think just to encourage parents, it lifts that thing off of us to be like, well, you know, like, it's like you're saying, but like, why aren't y 'all doing a thousand? You got to get out and get reps. Cause you know, the kid he's down there getting, it's like, Hey, hey, your kid may grow a foot and a half over the summer, and all of a sudden, all that time that he was just having fun out in the backyard, now he's like, oh, it looks like I want to play football. You hadn't knew it was because of reps or your great mentoring of your child.

55:53When David was on our podcast, and my son was a junior, and I was really struggling with some things as a parent and his journey, and he said, and it literally was God speaking to my heart, he said it's their journey. they have it's their journey not your journey and it was like an epiphany to me of like you know what he's exactly right and i love my kid and i'm going to support him and encourage him but it's really his journey to take it from here and whatever and i'm going to love him no matter where that journey ends because he's a great kid but that was pollock was one of the most impact we've had so many great guests on but when i where i was in my in my point as a parent it that just that really was like a lightning bolt to my heart of just like okay that's exactly right and i was able to exhale really as a parent just so that's what's been great about our podcast is that you know we were we were going through britain i were going through a lot of this still and now we're past it but man it was he was great yeah going back to one thing you said in relating it to pollock saying it's their journey the sports journey ends it ends for everybody.

57:02For a very small amount of people, it doesn't end until they're 30-something years old and they've made a bunch of money. But for a lot of people, it ends at 12 years old. For others, it ends at 17 or 18 years old. But it does end. And as parents, if we're putting all our effort into the first 13 years of their life, as opposed to thinking about the entirety of our child's life And, you know, we need to be shepherding their hearts and shepherding their minds towards being the best people and humans and, you know, and pursuing their faith and all those types of things. And again, sports has a role and plays a part in all that, but it is not the end-all be-all that we so often get lost into, all of us, when they're young.

58:00Yeah, that's and that's kind of why. And Britt came up with the name, but that's kind of what pure. I think we wanted role models for our kids. And so we're looking for those role models to like, you know, that that that person that it's not their identity, but they've taken maybe some God given talents and abilities and glorified him by using it as a platform or propelling him into something else in life or overcoming, you know, tremendous obstacles in life. And that's kind of what really what Pure Athlete stands for in terms of us looking for these stories, you know, of people that can they can inspire our kids and they can look up to and say, wow, that that's a journey that I would like to pursue, as opposed to a lot of the role models that are being thrown at our kids.

58:43You don't want them to pursue those those those those those journeys that those people are. Well, it's like anything, isn't it? I mean, in all of our professions and in your life is is it's a it's a journey with the Lord. Right. It's not my journey. It's me and God doing this together. And I think that the earlier that we can really help our kids understand that, God, it's so beautiful. I love you so that. With my kids, hey, guys, this is you. I'm here to be a part of it and to help sort of 30 ,000-foot view. But where do you feel like this is going? How can I help you with that as opposed to pushing Jesus out of the car and me grabbing the steering wheel with my kid and going, hey, this is my vision for your life, whether you like it or not.

59:25it's such a beautiful thing guys thank y 'all so much for your time it's so funny because I was going to say do you have any last thoughts but you guys just nailed it and I especially appreciate y 'all articulating what y 'all are working on what y 'all are doing because I think it is a very important thing I really do feel like again my hot take is I think this is something as we move forward and especially in Christendom and that isn't everybody but but it's going to continue it's going to continue to matter and be something that we have to navigate I think more than probably a lot of us even really clock.

59:56And so I love that you guys are doing the work you're doing. I think it's really important. And I think it's wonderful. Y 'all created a venue for these conversations to happen because I think they're really necessary and it's really helpful. So, so appreciate y 'all's time and wisdom and what you guys are doing. Well, thank you. And I'll just say right back at you, you guys are doing a great job and, you know, talking to, talking to younger dads than we are. But as you're in the mix of it and talking about all types of subjects that are real life. And so thank you for that. Thanks for having us today.

1:00:32We really appreciate that. Yeah, it's been a blast. You guys have a great ministry. We appreciate what you do. Thanks, guys. Thanks so much.

1:00:48Jon McLaughlin:Welcome to the Raising Boys and Girls podcast. I'm David Thomas. And I'm Sissy Goff. And we are therapists who've been practicing with kids and families for over 30 years. And in each episode of our podcast, we're going to share some of what we're learning in this work that we do with kids and families on a daily basis. Our goal is to help you care for the kids in your life with a little more understanding, a little more practical help, and a whole lot of hope. We are honored to invite you to join us on this journey of raising boys and girls.