Rupture and Repair: Embracing the Messy Reality of Parent-Child Relationships

26:10I'm sorry. We're both excited. You go first. You like to learn things, right? You know what I always say?

26:18Jon McLaughlin:Always be learning. A-V-L. So have you heard of Time for Learning? Tell me more about this. Let me stop you right there and tell you what it is. It's an online curriculum that makes homeschooling flexible and engaging for families. Now, they cover everything from pre-K through 12th grade, core subjects, electives, and even classes you'd see in traditional schools. Yep. And their cinema series is super cool. Grades 6 through 12 get story-driven, cinematic lessons that actually make learning feel exciting and visual instead of just reading from a textbook. Oh, my gosh. You know, and what's great is how— This is 1989?

26:53Jon McLaughlin:Yeah, come on. Let's get into the 90s at least. We're in the 20s. And that's why they're so flexible. Families can schedule subjects however they want, focus on specific topics with an emphasis on the specific. Really want to hit it hard, John. And even make room for hobbies, travel, and other activities. Homeschooling on your own terms. And parents, if you're listening, which I assume you are, and for the couple of kids, listen to this too. It's easy to stay on track. Time for Learning provides templates for transcripts, grades, and diplomas so it meets all the homeschool requirements in every state.

27:27Jon McLaughlin:Now listen, I'm about to blow everybody's mind right here. Let's do it. It's used by over a million students and families. And families love it as a full curriculum or even as a supplement for after school or summer learning. Curious if Time for Learning is right for your family? Visit timeforlearning.com. That's time4learning.com to explore their curriculum and find the perfect plan for your student. You can get started with a monthly subscription and see how much kids enjoy learning on their own terms.

28:07Jon McLaughlin:Anyway, everyone was backstage. No way. The entire cast of Disney. Yeah. Wow. Anyway, speaking of production, Dave, I feel like improving your sleep has somehow become this whole production. Like new mattress, blackout curtains, supplements, tracking your REM cycles. It's exhausting just thinking about it. It makes me want to sleep, ironically. Yeah. Can I tell you what's interesting? Please. It turns into a full lifestyle change, John. Oh, right. You know, and funny thing is, I realized the issue for me wasn't any of that, Dave. It was just my bedding. Okay? My sheets were worn out. Yeah. Like I pound those things.

28:44Jon McLaughlin:Yeah. Yeah. Corners popping off. You know, pillows kind of flat. Yeah. And I didn't even notice how much it was affecting my sleep. You know, just like the Fantastic Four, that's the thing. Most people don't need a whole new system, John. They just need better stuff on their bed. On the bed, exactly. And that's why we upgraded to Bowl and Branch. I knew you knew that I was going to say. No, I want to be clear. Not you and I. No. Well, separately. Corporately. Yeah, we corporately. Yeah, yeah. But definitely not. Yeah. It's wild how big of a difference it made immediately. They make everything, too.

29:13Everything, John. Yeah. Not just sheets. They're signature organic cotton sheets, pillows, blankets, comforters. It's all designed to be super soft, breathable, and actually work together, just like us.

29:22Jon McLaughlin:Yeah. You know, we started with the signature sheets. Okay? And the first night I got into bed, I knew this is different. Different, yeah. This is soft. Yeah. This is cooler. Okay? Just more comfortable overall. Though they didn't come with a signature, and that I want to be clear. Right. No, no, no. It's their signature sheets. You're not going to get a Michael Johnson. We can't be more clear on that. Which one can help? And the sheets, they get, you know what? Just like me, John. which I don't like, they get softer over time. You know what? I'm trying to, but to quote Mercy Me, I can't imagine sleep without Bowlin Branch right now.

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30:02Jon McLaughlin:That's Bowlin Branch, B-O-L-L-A-N-D, branch.com slash dadville. Code dadville to unlock 15 % off. Exclusions apply.

30:15Well, and I think one of the things that makes it so hard now is I think even if you take a set of parents who are really navigating this well, let's say that they have a good equilibrium of engaging, listening, but also challenging, giving space, not over-parenting, whatever that is. even if they really are in agreement in their marriage, you know, that they're like in there. There's just so much other information to juxtapose it against. And so you can feel like, I feel like we're handling this pretty well. And the minute you bump into another couple or if you're scrolling on social media, whatever, and you see like, oh my gosh, they did a family intensive for a week where the five of them went and sat in the mountains with a guru.

31:00And you're like, well, I mean, I thought we were doing well, but maybe we need to do the mountain guru thing. And so I think it takes, I mean, and you know, I don't know what living through the depression was like or world war one or two or whatever, but it can definitely feel, I think to this generation, one of the real struggles is staying dedicated to something when it feels like everything in the world is pushing you to, to, to do the thing that, that they're doing or um or like society or tv or whatever's podcasts are saying like hey like you may be doing well but something i really think that could that could really help you and so you really have to have this unbelievable steadfastness and belief in the things you know to be true to keep you from swaying because you can feel amazing about it and then bump into a friend at a basketball game and like hey you know we just did this thing and you're like well dead gum it like do we need you You just have to really sort of calm yourself so it's about to go, hey, am I crazy here?

32:02Do you think this? And so I think it's not just that. It's also just knowing that there's just so many other, and a lot of them are well-meaning things. They're just coming into your orbit hourly if you're not careful. And so you're having to make these micro decisions every day of like, well, do I need to go grab them after school and do this whole thing with them? And that wasn't really my plan today. Or do we take the next weekend and fly to wherever to do a father-daughter thing? I don't know. maybe we shouldn't. It just feels, it's just like when, when that's kind of the, the arms race of today, to your point, John, is this kind of like, everybody's moving in these directions.

32:38You're like, you have to have this crazy. I mean, I think that's what the book, you know, helps with is really trying to develop this sense of steadfastness and anchoredness to ideals that you go, Hey, no matter what's happening at the end of the day, we believe in rupture and repair. We believe we're going to mess up. It's just about, we believe in intentionality, but not at the cost of our own lives as parents or, you know, getting out of a modality that we think is true to satiate this outside force that we don't actually agree with. But man, a lot of our friends are doing it. And then we're like, so I think it's, it's those factors too can be so intense, you know?

33:13So it's, yeah. I had my first mom of a 14 year old about a month ago say, so we were at this family gathering and my 14 year old daughter started being really disrespectful and I was humiliated and I got real teary and I didn't know what to do. So I went to the bathroom and I got on my favorite parenting app and got on the chat bot and said, what do you do with a disrespectful 14 year old? And I think to your point of that, all the noise coming in, I think that's part of the swing where we are now is this expert or other led movement. Parents, all of us, individually, kids. I mean, to your question about technology, I think perfectionism is so much worse because we're watching everyone else's life and perspective.

33:59And out of the things that you were naming that we value, I think God speaks to you about your kids. He doesn't speak to you about his kids. He does. That's what we're gonna talk about. He does.

34:11Jon McLaughlin:I've actually, yeah, I've got some papers. Here we go. But that intuition, I think as a therapist, my prayer every day is that the Holy Spirit really leads my intuition. And so I know where to go. And if I was watching different therapists on Instagram right before I walked into a session, I feel like they had to do all the things they were doing that day rather than God speaks to you the strongest and the loudest about what your kids need. And I'll tell you the other thing that I find myself feeling and I think can be a part of this capability piece too, which if you want to add this to the next round of books, it's totally fine by me.

34:50I've got a couple of quotes I can send you. Just text you now. No, but I think that I find myself struggling with is also not just like how do we make sure they're ready for the world. But I find this with me. I'm like, how am I setting my kids up in an ecosystem that's not a real ecosystem in the world? That to me is really daunting. Because you can over-serve them. You can create little scenarios that aren't real life. And then you're kind of like, well, that felt good because I told my friends we did this thing or whatever. But then they get out in life and are like, hey, my boss doesn't treat me like you treat me.

35:28And you're like, oh, shoot. Which is certainly happening. which my friends don't observe these things that I do and think are quality, you know, and now I don't, I just don't know how to move because when I go like, Hey, this is, and they're like, yeah, we don't care. And you're like, good. So I think there's another piece too that I get nervous about is you can create these incredible sort of like 18 years of life for your kid that, that really are beautiful in a lot of ways. And they're high experience and they're high intentionality and they're high listening in there. But then your kid gets out in the world and they're like, everyone is here to listen to me, to see that I have the best experience, to cater to my whims and whimsies.

36:05And they get out there and they get eaten alive. And so I think that's the other piece is capability is so powerful. It's not just going, you know, how can I set them up well, but also like, I need to have discipline as a parent to realize like they're going to get chucked into the grinding gears of life at some point. And what can be beautifully intended, intention things just doesn't set them up well because it gives them this false sense of life that, that feel great for a parent because you do all these trips and you, and it's all great. And it really is great. And it creates core memories, but there has to be a discipline too of going like, how do I do this?

36:43But also let my kid know like, Hey man, this is not real life. And I think that's such an interesting sort of like friction point, You know, as a parent, how do you do that? Like, how do you navigate those things, you know? You know, it's so important, I think, about what you're saying as I think back on the first question we talked about and the differences now is, you know, the assumption would be if we think about what we have access to at this point in time that our parents didn't have access to, our grandparents certainly didn't. You know, the assumption would be we have more information, there's more support, we know more about mental health in kids, that kids would be the sturdiest they've ever been at any point in history because they have more support.

37:26We have more access to resources and information. And not only is that not the case, like we're seeing some of the scariest statistics we've seen in 30 years of doing this work. So to the wisdom of your question, Dave, it's like if we give too much, we actually build fragility. That's a great word. That's a great way to say that. And is where I think that question is so important of, is there some context where they're experiencing discomfort and I'm working through it? And I remember having this really funny moment when you were talking about that of I took my daughter to New York for the first time when she was 16.

37:57And we had a little dad-daughter trip. And, you know, she'd grown up only in the South. And she has kind of a quiet voice. She's really polite and kind. And I remember we went into a bagel shop to order. And I started to order for her. 16 year old because i thought she talks soft it's loud in here they won't be able to hear she'll she'll order slowly and then i was like no no she might go to school in new york she might go to grad school like i've got to let her have the full weight of this experience yeah sure enough as you'd imagine this adorable little teenage girl i love everything bagel with a dot and he was like what i can't hear you louder you know he was like and everything you're not resilient enough for this bagel shop.

38:41There it is. There it is. And he's like, and your daughter either, sir.

38:49Everything in me wanted to step forward again. I mean, I wanted to grab him by the neck, and then I wanted to order for, I wanted all of it to stop, and that was my discomfort. It's like, no, she's going to go off to school at some point. She's going to encounter difficult people, whether it's a professor, whether it's somebody in admin, whether it's a guy taking her order in the restaurant, wherever it may be. And so I think where are we making decisions in the everyday that stand in the way of that opportunity that is part of, I think, playing the long game of knowing, to your wise question, like they're going to be out in the world.

39:22Have I prepared them for that or have I bubble wrapped the experience in ways where they're not?

39:35now you can't i'm pretty sure if in a tickle fight that's how the rules work so you can't

39:41Jon McLaughlin:change them yeah you know and that's how i thought it worked for most of my life and i had to rethink it and speaking of rethinking oh whoa okay this time of year always makes me rethink what's in my closet. You are so good. Okay. I'm trying to keep fewer things, but better things, you know, like pieces that are well-made, easy to wear. I don't want something that's difficult to wear. Uri-day. You need something for Uri-day wear. That's why I keep coming back to quince. The fabrics feel elevated. You know how I like elevation. You do. And the fits are thoughtful and the pricing actually makes sense.

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41:58Jon McLaughlin:That's a full calendar? Quince.com slash dadville. When I found out I was going to be a parent, I immediately felt a lot of anxiety and worry. So I went on to BetterHelp to try to look for a therapist to help me with that. My relationship with my family and with my boyfriend and with myself were suffering. I really needed help. I was ruminating a lot. Really getting those thoughts out to a therapist and getting feedback was just life-changing. Discover what BetterHelp Online Therapy can do for you. Visit BetterHelp.com today.

42:35Well, and I think, you know, if I start, you know, we've got our kids in private school, and that's a struggle. I mean, that's not something we thought we would do. And, you know, them going to Covenant was kind of like the cheapest version of that. So we thought like, oh, this is kind of private school junior. And then it was such a great experience. And then, you know, with CPA and the next, it just all felt like the natural moves. Also, the most stress that I have in my life, as John knows, is private school. And I'm choosing to have it. But I think if there's a huge concern about doing that, it's like, you know, this is not helping them in some ways.

43:10It really isn't. And so, you know, Annie and I both have to weigh this thing of like, you know, like how do we sort of justify these decisions we're making? And I think we obviously believe in it, but we also know like, man, there can be knock-on effects that are pretty substantial from this. And so I think there's just these decisions we often make where you go like, you know, how do we, as John said earlier, how do we, this generation, I think we've never been more probably attuned to our kids than any generation before, which is wonderful and intentional, which is beautiful. yes really really beautiful and i and i don't and i know y 'all don't but i don't want to sound like the dad who's kind of like we're ruining our kids not at all i think it's there's probably some connectivity that y 'all see more than anybody that's really amazing to see with parents that may be in some ways not unique to this generation but probably a little more widespread with this generation but i think as we do those things i would say private school you know like that could be tricky for my kids when they get into a scenario where they don't feel as the benefits of private schooled they get aren't aren't out there and they're going wait a second you know like i'm used to these rhythms uh that just aren't provided and and but even that in a weird way is just trusting they'll be capable to navigate that but it's funny because even the most well-intended things like i said earlier can be they have a part that you're like well that you know that

44:28Jon McLaughlin:could also be hard are there some like practical sort of daily things that you guys recommend parents start to implement to sort of have some baseline. Would there be like three C's or something that you guys have? There are three C's. Yes. Do you want to talk about the three C's? Say what you're about to say first. Well, we kind of go at it from two different perspectives. One is in the book, we have literally 100 capable building exercises for kids. Littles, middles, and olders. So things parents can do immediately that are fun and silly and can bring you together as a family and then some that are deeper and more reflective and thoughtful.

45:10But we also, you know, we definitely the first half of the book are trying to, I think, invite parents into this idea that we really do have to do something to create some urgency about it. And then the second half are the subtitle I didn't remember, Strengths, Skills, and Strategies. And there are five of each things that we feel like really are the building blocks of resilience that kids are missing. And I'll give you one practical example that is flexibility, that we are living in an age where kids do not want to have any flexibility, that control has become their primary coping strategy. And so we're hearing more parents of boys and girls talk about anger and rage when they're out of control, whether it's the schedule changed or they didn't get the birthday present they thought they were going to get.

45:58And so we really outline the importance of practicing flexibility as a family and how can you throw your kids some curveballs. And it's funny because when we do parenting seminars, we'll talk a little bit about this. And David will say, like, I want you to go home. And tonight at the dinner table, I want everyone to move one seat to the left. Oh, man. See? That is hysterical. And that's what, I mean, you should see how stricken people are in the audience when he says it. And to your point, I don't remember what my seat was at the dinner table. And I think if I had gotten upset because someone would have sat in it, my parents would have laughed.

46:35Oh my gosh. That was just not a thing. But now the rigidity is linked to anxiety. And because we're giving in to this lack of flexibility, we're only making anxiety worse.

46:47Jon McLaughlin:Yeah. Whereas it feels like helping them. Yeah, exactly. So flexibility is certainly one practically I think we've got to be leaning into and helping kids work through. Because how flexible did you have to be today before we walked into this room? Yeah. It is required of life. stretches so and i mean that he literally was doing stretches trying as hard as i can so let me ask you this wait do we get three c's oh yeah sorry go ahead all this is rooted in a definition that we came up with that is capable kids have practiced coping and learned competence for life's challenges so coping here they are and i was thinking even to to marry that bigger idea with the practical two.

47:31Sissy will often, when we teach, ask parents, okay, right now, at this moment, whatever age your kids are, think about two things that you are currently doing for them that they could be doing for themselves. Wow. And then think about two things they could almost do that you're doing. So if it's filling up their own water bottle, if it's ordering for themselves in a restaurant, if it is getting your driver's license, if whatever it may be.

47:56Jon McLaughlin:If you're getting an A in math consistently, have them take a crack at taxes. There you are. This is good stuff, John. This is good stuff. People didn't listen. Kill two birds with one stone. Absolutely. But if we're thinking in those ways in all seasons of development, like I have young adults and one of my sons which is home and he's got a couple of friends who are getting married and he's kind of late to book flights. And I was like, hey, you want to jump on Southwest together? And I'm like, no, you don't need to do that. Like, let him book his own flights. It's like that temptation is great, I think, in every season, even, Dave, to your wisdom earlier, because I do it quicker.

48:35We knock this out in the next five minutes, whatever it may be. If kids are pouring their own milk or juice, it's inevitably going to get messier. They're more likely to spill. If they're cooking, they're going to trash the kitchen. But all of that learning in the messy is so foundational to building capability. And then it leads us right back to the question of what am I going to do while the mess is being made? to deal with my discomfort when I'm tempted to want to get in the middle of all that and managing control.

49:02Jon McLaughlin:Golly. I think that's really good. What are you doing? What did you say? What are two things that you're doing for your kids that they could be doing themselves? Yeah, and what are two things you're doing they almost do for themselves? Yeah, that's good. Okay, so this is less of an issue now, but with one of my daughters for a long time, she would struggle when any sort of adult like if she were in the room right now and sissy you would be like hey what school do you go to she would do this she would almost kind of panic and she would immediately look at me or look at amy as kind of like help me walk me through you know and i and this is a low stakes uh example but for a long time you know we you would just immediately be like, you go to, you know, say the name of the school.

49:56Jon McLaughlin:As parents do with like babies and toddlers at the park, you have these conversations through your kids or with each other. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, oh, you have a shirt like that, you know. But at what point are we, then we started kind of letting her hang out there for a minute and we would just smile and kind of nod. And I can feel, again, this is a very innocuous, like, low-stakes example, but my little parent, dad, heart is like, am I seeing her getting scarred? Is she never going to speak with anyone ever again? Which obviously is too extreme, but how do parents know where the line is? Is it just like, you're just going to have to know?

50:44Jon McLaughlin:You're just going to have to fumble through it? or where do we know when we're like, okay, that's too much. We need to jump in and help. What are your thoughts on that? I think it's a hard question. And I would say just like you knew when to stop answering and give her a few seconds, I would think about what's kind of a notch from where you are now. And to trust, put down the phone, trust that you're going to be the one who knows exactly what she needs and even understanding which john and dave both of you are such intuitive dads um we taught we have a section in the book where we talk about kind of the challenges for boys and for girls specifically and i talk about um fears feelings and failings are the three biggest challenges for girls to capability and i think even to give her a minute if she doesn't step in to think about what is it in that moment?

51:43What is happening for her? Why is it happening for her? And what can we do to practice in real time? And so thinking through in that story, walking away and saying, okay, let's practice next time somebody asks you what school you go to. And even, you know, was it this sense of, I have to say something really funny in the moment? Or I have to say something really great because I think for so many girls that can block it. I went to both my nephews had soccer games Saturday back to back, 30 minutes within each other. And my little four-year-old nephew is a riot. And I think Phil's very capable in the world currently.

52:22Right before the game started, he was kissing his muscles. Oh, I love that. And then pawing like a bull before he ran out onto the field. Wow. I know. It says a lot about cute little wit. And then the woman next to me, her daughter, I was watching her hang back. and her mom said, honey, it's not mean to go for the ball. And I think that's with girls. That is such a significant thing that happens. And I love the intuition of that mom in that moment of, she knew exactly what was challenging her daughter's capability. And so thinking about what's underneath it and what can I do to shore them up before we go into the situation, if at all possible, and then sit in the discomfort for as long as you can.

53:07So for the last couple of minutes, I'd love, like, as we think about parents, because I think you guys have said this already, but just for a second to give a little more intent to that. As parents who are listening, you know, John and I included, it does feel like this is one of those classic, as you guys have said, that it's a parent's first thing. Like, hey, we got to work on this ourselves. We're really going to lead well in it. um how would you encourage parents um in that in that uh on that line of thought like you know parents are listening going you know what do they mean when they say like i need to work on these things or how you know what does that look like to y 'all so to take it out of the kids spirit to go like hey parents are listening me and john included how do we know like uh and you kind of inferred this earlier like in that moment what are you feeling but what does that look like for a parent to try to understand why they how they may be struggling with this piece too you know one thought i had as you were asking that dave i one of my favorite parts of the book and i was even thinking about it john when you asked that question about your daughter we break down the four primary relationships of dads and daughters mothers and sons fathers and sons mothers and daughters and some unique hurdles to capability that exist out of the uniqueness of those relationships and I think it's it's fascinating to me even as I was listening to you tell that story and I was thinking back on my story in New York how intuitively I would move into rescue with my daughter in ways that I wouldn't do with my sons that you know there's this kind of thing in me that rises up that you know as a man I feel this sense of I want my boys to be prepared to be men in this world and we know what that takes and how hard that is and so I would be harder out of that place again out of yeah a good desire in ways that we talk about how much harder moms often are on girls from the same place they know what it takes to be a woman in this world and so we're inviting parents into thinking about some unique hurdles that exist within those relationships that could get in the way that I think would be a starting point to your question that I think aren't always unique to that relationship, but we would argue in 30 years of doing this are often unique.

55:31We're fascinated by how often we will see moms be really hard on girls and oftentimes coddling boys. I had a mom who grew up with three brothers and she said, I was in high school when it hit me that I had been making my own lunch since elementary school and my mom was still making my brother's lunch. It just kind of occurred to me, what is wrong with this equation? And that's but one of a hundred examples we could give where I think if we're not paying attention to the uniqueness of that relationship, there could be some things that get in the way. Wow. That'd be a good starting point.

56:05Jon McLaughlin:I mean, I only have daughters, but I would imagine it's like if I had a son, it's your child, but it's also you. Like you see yourself there. When you have daughters, it's just your child. Yes. I was never a 13-year-old girl, so I can't empathize on that sort of like cellular level. That's interesting. Yeah. I feel that really acutely with my boys and with Zanna because it's like, you know, she's, yeah. And I see it with Zanna and her and Zanna with, sorry, Annie with Zanna and then Annie with the boys because you do feel she's like, hey, you need to be ready. I know how to get you ready. and then with me and the boys I'm kind of like alright I know this is going to make you mad but look this is how this works but then Xana can be just barely struggling I'm like get over here you know and so I think that's a good challenge to me I'm excited to see that part of the book because I can feel where I need to and sometimes I'll get in trouble because I'll Annie will be doing something right and I'll feel the need to kind of and she's like don't do that this is like you're trying to relieve something that doesn't need to be relieved yet Like she's got to learn this and then vice versa where you're being so hard on him.

57:20I'm like, no, it's not. Trust me. You know, and it was so cute the other night we had a ton of boys spend the night, all the covenant boys spent the night on the 27th at night, which is really sweet. But Annie makes me laugh. Cause when she, you know, she thinks about boys in this hysterical way where everything is like, well, let's get everything arranged. Like, so it was the cutest thing. We have a basement and you know, So we had the mat out, and she had it laid out. I mean, these are eighth-grade boys. It laid out, and then a couple can sleep on it. And the whole time she's doing this, I'm like, I'm just going to let you do this because this will be a good lesson for us all.

57:56So perfect little line. Sleeping bags are ready. Couch is ready. They've got that thing. And I went down the next one. The next one. I can't wait to hear this. I can't say this without laughing. and and because lolly one of the boys had gotten up kind of early and he was we were all hanging out in the kitchen watching sports or something and the door got left open so lolly ran downstairs and i was like oh no this is like 7 a.m and i'm like lolly is the family dog yeah yeah yeah um and uh that's y 'all's fault by the way i mean we'd love thank you for that by the way but um so i you know i careened down the stairs because i'm like oh she's gonna wake up my up and so first of all, they're not on the mats that she had so, and the sleeping bats are still there.

58:41So then I have this moment of like, they're down here, right? So I turn the corner to go and I thought there was a gas leak that had killed them because the way that they are laying, it looks like they had paused and fallen asleep in the middle of a twister game because it was like one boy's got his leg like under his head somehow and then another one's right on top of him. These are eight good ones. And I just grabbed her and I started laughing It was hard. I had to go upstairs because I was like, so like they, you know, she had just, and everything is, and then water if you need it. And you know, there, and I just thought to myself, that is, that is that little moment where I was like, babe, you don't understand.

59:19They're not, you know, and then the next day she's like, okay, let's get some food for and I was like, hey, we have a hundred boxes of Jets pizza leftover. That's all they need for lunch. So no, go by Chick-fil-A. And I was like, I love, I'm not doing this. They don't care. Just like, and of course, then later she cooked some because we had. something and she's like look at all the chicken nuggets here i was like okay whatever but you know there is that funny thing about your own gender that you just kind of know like no i kind of know how this works i don't need you know thank you dave for your outside input on xana i think i know you know yeah that you do have to be careful of which is so surprising to me you know um okay as we release you to the wild because there's thousands of families that are queued up outside of daystar waiting to just be helped and uh realize how capable they are what so you guys have stuff coming up.

1:00:04You've got, y 'all are doing live events. Obviously, the book is out the 21st of April. And then tell us like what's coming up that people need to know about. We are doing an eight city tour. So if we're coming in and we're here, Y 'all are on tour. You are officially on tour. We are. The last week of April and the first week of May. So we'd love for anybody to come join us. That is so fun. That's great. Can you name some of the, not all of them, but just like what areas we all be in? Nashville, Birmingham, Oklahoma City. Atlanta. Atlanta. Dallas, Houston, Austin. Charlotte. Charlotte. Well, you actually knew them.

1:00:36No, Raleigh-Durham. Raleigh-Durham. Do not get that wrong. They will revolt. Okay. We love Charlotte. And y 'all will be there. We do love Charlotte. Which is, I mean, the live, I mean, I've seen y 'all numerous times live. And it's not, you know, I think just to encourage y 'all, anyone that's listening that hasn't been, it's not your typical, you kind of go in, there's like a nice lecture, and you guys just do such a good job of making it engaging. Thank you, Dave. wonderfully lighthearted, but around things that are very substantial. And so it's, I mean, it's no, it's no wonder that, um, people love coming to these things because they're really great.

1:01:09You guys do. So anybody listening, if you're contemplating it, it is a hugely helpful, but warm, congenial night. It doesn't feel like, you know, listening to like four Ted talks in a row where you're kind of like, that's a lot of information.

1:01:20Jon McLaughlin:Where do people go to get tickets? Raising boys and girls.com. Johnmcl.com will be different tickets. I want to make sure. Just tickets. There will not be tickets. But while you're getting tickets, just go on a ticket spree in Good Arts. No, RaisingBoysAndGirls.com. Yes. Okay, great. Yes. And the book is out. And then I was going to say I wanted to give a small plug. The podcast, which everybody knows I've got a bajillion downloads, but the Enneagram thing, what a fun. It's funny. I don't know if y 'all like this. I've purposely not started it because I know that once I do, I'm just going to. So I've got it queued.

1:01:57Like they're all saved. but I was like, okay, once they're done, I'm just gonna do like the, you know, any, this is a selfish question, what was your favorite part of that? Or was there something y 'all, because y 'all know how much I love the internet. And this is, sorry, this is the last off-subject question. What was y 'all's favorite part of doing that? Or did y 'all learn something specific to that that was like really, wow. I would first say, it's one of my favorite series we've ever done. Really? We have never, I don't know that I remember getting as much feedback and how much fun it's been for families to have conversations together.

1:02:29That's been really fun feedback to hear that we've loved that surprised and encouraged us. What would you say? Well, you'll know that C.S. Lewis quote. I'm going to butcher it. But something about you two, I thought I was the only one, that that's when friendship is born. It was so fun to interview people of the same number. And they would always be sitting on our couch, John being one, and speaking to us. And at some point it was like we stopped being in the room and they were saying, really? Me too. I didn't know that other people felt that way. And I think that's what I love about the Enneagram so much.

1:03:04And our hope is that whole series is that kind of experience for everybody. Knowing, I'm going to say the obvious thing, but, and then we can end it here, but I think knowing what motivates your kids is such a phenomenal hack. Good gracious. Is that helpful to realize like, Oh man, You consistently bend this way in context. So then I know that about you is just so helpful. It's unbelievably helpful. You know? Well, you know how much we love y 'all. Y 'all are the best. Thank you so much. You know how much we love you guys. We always love having y 'all on. I'm excited y 'all have more content in the world to help people.

1:03:41Local government.

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