Stephen Kellogg: Meeting Your Kids Where They Are At

13:58Dave Barnes:And it's kind of not always like that. You do lose some people along the way. But it's nice to hear you say and point out and remind me that there are a lot of people who still are in here.

14:13Stephen Kellogg:You said that so well. I think one of the things that, um, that has been probably the hardest doing what we do for me has been, um, those seasons where that person that tours with you or that you make music with on the road is like, Hey man, I just like, I can't do this anymore. I got to do this. And what we see in that, I'll speak for myself. What I see in Nashville a lot is, you know, they're like, I want to be writing. I want to be playing in the studio more. I want to be producing. And all of that makes sense, especially as they're getting married and having kids and stuff. But it's just such a bummer, man.

14:50Stephen Kellogg:It's like, cause you know, I think for me and I would imagine most of us feel this way, but you know, I'm like so much of what makes the road fun is who you're with, you know, yes. And I think people like, of course they see the shows and that part of it, but you know, the other, whatever, 14 hours of the day, 12 hours of the day, it's you in a car or backstage stage or going to a movie or whatever it's like it's so much hang time and i think when you find those people you really gel with musically and um connection wise it's just magic and then it's so heartbreaking and understandable when they're like hey man i just can't do it because then you're like this isn't just getting another guitar player or bass player drummer keyboard player

15:32Jon McLaughlin:this is like finding another family member yeah you know sure yeah it is tough 100 you know

15:39Dave Barnes:And you crave that. What we get to do, it kind of keeps you – you get to stay young. You're still having sleepover parties because of that camaraderie. You're still getting to goof around. And when you start bringing in people who you don't have that history with and stuff, and it does start to feel a little like a more traditional job might, I guess, feel. You're like, cool, we're doing the job, but it's not the same. And that's – yeah, I'm with you.

16:10Stephen Kellogg:This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.

16:13Jon McLaughlin:Dave, you know, the month of March includes International Women's Day. It's a day to celebrate women's strength, progress, and how much they care for others and manage so many responsibilities. It, of course, makes me think about Amy, my wife, of course, and all the ways that she's there for me and the girls and how she makes the world a better place with her actions and her wisdom. And I could go on and on and on. She does.

16:35Stephen Kellogg:She absolutely does. We recognize all women. Not just on that day, but every day. And a big part of that is reflecting on the roles women play, the expectations placed upon them, and the pressures they feel. Sometimes that can feel very overwhelming.

16:48Jon McLaughlin:When that overwhelming feeling is present, a great way to help create balance, set healthy boundaries, and support overall well-being is through therapy.

16:57Stephen Kellogg:And BetterHelp is a great place to start. BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the U.S.

17:04Jon McLaughlin:With over 30 ,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences, and our 12-plus years of experience means we typically get it right the first time.

17:22Stephen Kellogg:But if you aren't happy with your match, you can switch to a different therapist anytime. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise.

17:34Jon McLaughlin:Your emotional well-being matters.

17:36Stephen Kellogg:Find support and feel lighter in therapy. Sign up and get 10 % off at BetterHelp.com slash Dadville. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Dadville.

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20:02Stephen Kellogg:We get the other the other piece, too, that's funny is I've noticed this with me. They get younger. So then it gets even more interesting because you're still getting older. And then the people you're hiring get young because those are the people are like, no, I do want to hit the road and go play. and then it becomes like i had a really interesting season it's kind of still like this now where it's like you know these guys are 20 years younger than me and it's it's that is not that is not your friend i mean you're friends but that's not your friend and so then you have this sort of like elder statesman job where you're like i'm like the boss and then we kind of hang and have fun but it's it's even as as much as i try to be chummy and sort of like hey right guys are kind I'm like, okay, it's going to – hey, Dad, please stop, Dad.

20:46Dave Barnes:You're like different generations, man. Yes. So the fellow who was my tour manager for last year, he was working at the Bluebird and running sound. And he said, hey, do you ever do like any kind of master class on just like the business or building a career? And I was like, well, you know, tell me about your story. And he did. And he's a songwriter. He's just getting going. He's in his 20s. And then he was like, yeah, I've been sleeping in my car to do shows. and my brain was like, this is a guy I could work with. You know? A guy that's willing to do that is a guy that could probably handle what I have to throw at him.

21:22Dave Barnes:And I mean, this is terrible. You know, and we did, and I worked him blind. But it is different. It's not the same as all being in that wavelength.

21:33Stephen Kellogg:So have you found that with being, because isn't this current band

21:35Dave Barnes:a lot of the originals? It is. It's about half and half. And the people who weren't in the band are people I've played with and known. And here's the thing. We're on a bus. We've got crew. We're traveling with our own soundboard. We've got our ears. I mean, there are a lot of things clicking and working, right? And it is very hard, and I say this lovingly, to keep everybody happy. Oh, my. I mean, it's like we're pulling out all the stops here. but it's just harder the youngest person on the tour is 38 and the oldest person is 56 the young me would have been like you've got it all at what point could we do we could have huge crowds that's the only thing we don't have and that is a big thing but we have crowds we have critical mass so it should be okay

22:32Jon McLaughlin:that is something that you have to square up with and deal with you know that like sort of how much am i responsible for everyone's mood and you know with me back definitely back in the day it was for whatever reason if i noticed oh so-and-so's a little unhappy seems bummed out i'm always i'm like well it's something that i've done it has to be yeah because it probably was a young like you know there's probably some narcissism there where i'm like well this is my tour these are my shows so all the problems have to be mine as well you know it can it can be so stressful if there's a way to

23:15Dave Barnes:not feel that i don't know what it is it's not i mean the nights that i get sleep are just i'm like okay everything seems okay which ties in nicely to dadville because this is what it's also like being a parent where like right you know you've got these kids whose lives are you have their own complexities and you're suddenly responsible for everybody's happiness like no this is the worst you know so to go from my house where that's where i feel that way and that's because you know being an empathetic person you feel things like but whoa it's it's a lot you know um yeah and yet for the first time in many years the camaraderie's just killing you know we're playing cornhole in the dressing room there's jokes there's laughs we watch spinal tap on the bus we're we're really you know musically what's happening it's so special and it's also so unsustainable there's no way you know this is i'm just i'm just enjoying it as best i can yeah yeah well i think i think

24:18Stephen Kellogg:something that i've noticed that i think is good is it definitely doesn't feel like to me there's as much on the hook. You know? It's like where I think when you're in your 20s every show is like this is where we could level up. It's defining you. Like if the right person's out there or we have enough people at this club and we do that show this could be the moment that okay we're going to put you all in the and I think now at the age we all collectively are you know it's just there's just not as much at stake. I mean you want to do a great job and you're probably doing the best job you ever had because you've got whatever 20 ,000 hours 30 ,000 hours.

24:53Stephen Kellogg:so that's not as much at risk anymore so then it really is about enjoying it making sure the crowd enjoys it you know doing doing what you love to do and for me at least there's just not quite as much of that like oh god okay make sure this you know this this this this you know yeah i mean how

25:09Dave Barnes:many times did you guys kill a show just knock it out of the park and think well now we've done it when i come back to this city everybody will be here and they will recognize my imminent great I mean, right? You did that so many times and then you're like, or if you had a bad show, you think, uh-oh, like ruin everything. You didn't really affect anything. It's like, yeah.

25:33Jon McLaughlin:Yeah. I know. So I got to ask you this. You are someone, I've known you for, I don't know how, 20 years plus. You are someone, for anyone listening who's not familiar, Stephen Kellogg is a workhorse. like you are not only on the on the touring front you know you're about to play your 3000th show but you you've written a book you did that ted talk that dave mentioned you just put out like a stand-up special i mean you're constantly going and whenever i meet somebody who you know is just like humming along at that kind of clip in any area of life whether it's like there's somebody who just like they're working 80 hour weeks or there's somebody who they're up at 3 45 a.m and they're doing yoga every day whatever there's like i'm always curious what is the thing what is the narrative in your brain that gets you to do that for this long

26:42Dave Barnes:yeah that's a great that's a great question and i'm and i'm thinking about it a lot right now because i'm also like is i don't i don't you know i i'm not choosing it it's just the way that the wiring exists you know right um and i you know i think i i think for all the love that i experience and you know me well enough to know this about me what i'm about to say for all the love and empathy and the thing that lets all the songs in also lets in everything else you know anger melancholy like i'm not a depressed person but i i got the blues you know and i always have and you kind of like it i kind of like it yeah i kind of like it i like being i feel like i can the world is sad it's beautiful but it's sad and i like being tapped into that in a way um but it has also given me a real sense of mortality since i was really young i mean they told my my parents like he's very serious you know in kindergarten like is he's you know because i was hello when you're in kindergarten i was i mean i just i i was like i'm gonna die someday this was this travels with me everywhere so so a lot of it drives me and makes me go is like you know Every day, nothing's guaranteed.

28:02Dave Barnes:And so what do I have to do? And I feel that there's a lot to do. And I want to do it. I have a hard time relaxing people erroneously because of the way I look or the way that I seem talking, think I'm this laid back guy. You, John, know as well as anybody. I'm not remotely that guy. I'm intense and all these things. But I'm grateful because so much of what I'm proud of having done in my life came from really hard work. I don't feel like I'm particular. I think I have the baseline of talents that one needs to have a life in the arts. I don't know that I have much beyond that. But through hard work and focus and things, I've been able to build a life that I wanted to build.

28:47Dave Barnes:And so that makes – that drives me. You know, it's like, OK, I am sort of playing with this idea that do I what what would happen? Am I still do I still have value as a person if I don't work quite as hard all the time, if I just live? And the main thing that's driving me to think that that's possible is that I want for my kids, maybe I want them to be hard workers, But I maybe don't want them to be quite so brutal as I've been on myself with just like – and I've burnt – the people who've left my life in less graceful ways, usually it has something to do – they burn out around me. And I get it because I go hard and I always have and maybe I always will.

29:34Dave Barnes:But as I'm coming up on my 50th birthday and I want my kids to be a bit kinder to themselves spiritually and to their souls, I'm hoping I can learn to be a little easier with myself.

29:49Stephen Kellogg:How do you navigate that with them, with your four kids? What does it look like to navigate your drive and touring with this really robust family? How do you do that?

30:03Dave Barnes:Well, it's clunky, Dave. It's clunky. On the one hand, I want them to be hard workers. I don't want to raise soft kids. I feel like we got a generation of kids who can get A's on tests and do jujitsu and a million activities. But these kids, I come home and they're like, I'm hungry. And I'm like, well, you're in a house full of food. Why didn't you make something? Where's your life skills, guys? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we have these conversations. So I want them to be motivated. And also, I am not always the dad I want to be because I'm burning so hot all the time. And for me, having a beer and just cooking and chilling at home kind of lowers the temperature and I can be more the guy that I like that version of myself.

31:02Dave Barnes:I think that that actually brings out a good side of the more – playing the game of cornhole too does the same thing. Just like, hey, it's okay to not go all the time. And I can see myself passing on some of those neuroses. And, you know, so now I'm just very straight with them. Hey, this is how your dad is. And these are the good aspects of that. And these are the things you probably want to watch out for, you know. I mean, how do you guys do it? Give me some tips because I feel like you're great dads. I love the way that both of you show up in the world, you know.

31:39Stephen Kellogg:Well, that's kind of you to say. This isn't how this podcast goes. No, come on. Give me something.

31:45Dave Barnes:I didn't get up and not shower for nothing. I need some information here.

31:51Jon McLaughlin:I don't know. I mean, it's like that frustratingly unknowable question to know what is nature and what is nurture. I mean, I think it's very valuable, as you're describing, to have an eye on our disposition as people, as dads. And to know, because I'm a firm believer in my kids are paying much more attention to how I'm living my life than what I just told them. they're not really they're not paying attention to whatever life lesson i just told them with words they're paying attention to what i do day in and day out and and that's where i'm saying to them here's what's valuable look at what i'm doing you you're clocking everything that i'm doing for your entire life and so i think it's really valuable what you're saying to to have an eye on that and to be like you know i don't necessarily want my daughters to you know for just speaking for me personally like i have that uh you know that that narrative in my mind that's like if you don't you know this morning if you don't wake up it's 5 a.m and get to the pool and swim laps.

33:21Jon McLaughlin:If you don't, you're going to feel like a slightly, you know, lazy all day or whatever. I don't want my daughters to have, I want my daughters to get up and go swim in the pool because they love swimming in the pool. If that's what they want to do. I don't want them to be living out of this sort of like negative, but whatever, for whatever reason. And this is,

33:39Dave Barnes:you get up and swim at 5am. Is that something you do?

33:43Jon McLaughlin:Yeah. I did that this morning, John. and it's a you know it's my it's that's my prison that i'm i'm living in sk

33:53Stephen Kellogg:which creed tried to warn us of and that i know infamous record of theirs i know i didn't listen

33:58Dave Barnes:to that song enough i guess oh my goodness good for you man but you know whatever that is i want

34:03Jon McLaughlin:them to you know i i want them to have the the fewest amount of chains on them as possible and god forbid i would be putting any of the chains myself on my daughter so yeah i think just being aware of it is you know 90 of all that you can do yeah and we will be a lightning rod for some of

34:23Dave Barnes:i mean my parents are great but you know they're gonna get they get they get blamed for things you know just try really hard and show up and i'm like well i got this from you and that right

34:36Jon McLaughlin:Right, right. Yeah, it is. So Sophia is 20-something now? She's studying abroad in Spain, is this correct?

34:47Dave Barnes:She's in Madrid. So how is that? Man, it's great. You know, she is, Dave, when she wanted to quit piano years ago, I used to, John very graciously would send these little videos like, Hey, Sophia, I hear you're thinking of quitting. and you can if you want, but I'm sure glad I stayed with it. And then Soph would be like, I'm not going to quit after all. I'm like, oh, that's nice. Like Jedi mind tricking her into staying with piano via John, which I greatly appreciated. And now she's a wonderful piano player. Came on tour with me in December. Played and sang. She has her first EP out. Her band's called Silkworm.

35:29Dave Barnes:She's having a great time and would be on this tour with me, I think if schedules had permitted. And then her younger sister, Adeline, is getting ready to go to college. But both of them are on my new record with me. I cut a song with Counting Crows, and Addie and Soph sing the background vocals, and then Counting Crows are the band. Amazing. That's really special stuff. And then my younger two are wonderful too, and learning how to be the dad that they need me to be. That's the other thing about different kids. They need a different version of you. I didn't realize that. The first two, I thought this tough love approach is going to be good and you did something wrong, we're going to go chop wood.

36:16Dave Barnes:Actually, it is something we do in New England. All these things, but that doesn't work. Different kids need different stuff. That was a revelation. You know, yeah. Sometimes I go to Will Hogue's wife is a wonderful family therapist and I don't talk to her regularly. But when I need to tune up, I will call Julia Hogue and be like, here's what's going on in the house. Help me be the dad they need me to be. Tell me what tell me what's good that I'm doing, what I could do better.

36:46Stephen Kellogg:Hit me, you know, that that is that I can't tell you how helpful that was for me, too. I think like, you know, I think our parents' generation and definitely the ones before, there was definitely this idea that like if you're going to be intentional about discipline, and some people weren't, but I think the ones that were, it was like here's how you discipline. Like this, this one thing. Right. Now just lay it over all your kids. Right. And, you know, they'd have some that it worked really well with, and then some wouldn't work at all, but there was no nuance. It was just kind of like that was kind of the methodology.

37:17Stephen Kellogg:And I really only think in the last probably, you know, 20 years, 15 years, if people really realize that are in that space going, oh, yeah, that's a terrible idea. Like, kids are so different. And where some respond really well to sort of challenge, they kind of go, okay, you're right. All right. You know, some need kindness and sort of vulnerability and softness and, you know, where the others don't, you know. And I think it's been really helpful with Annie and I and our kids to realize, like, man, each of them are just wildly different. and sort of trying to overlay some general methodology is just a complete waste of time.

37:54Stephen Kellogg:But it's, man, does it take so much more work, you know, like knowing them enough and then tailoring each experience to each kid and how to do that well. And it is, but it is funny. I do think it's a really humorous part of it too, where it's like you can really see how each kid has such a different relationship with the parent, you know. And some kids are like, why are you always so scared of mom and dad? Just tell them how you feel. And that kid's like, no way, dude. Yeah. No way. And then another one's like, but I think forever it was like, that's weird. Now I'm like, it actually makes a lot of sense.

38:30Stephen Kellogg:Because not only to your point, Stephen, you have a 20-year-old, 20 whatever the adult or two are, and you were a different person then, like a very different person than with your youngest and who you are now, you know, walking through life with them. And so, of course, they're going to have a different experience with you because you were different to them, not just how you treated them and who you actually were, you know?

38:57Dave Barnes:Yeah. I mean, and they grew up around the band, too, which was interesting because I think it gave them the perception of me being younger and more relatable. And the younger girls saw the band. It's not that they've never seen me play with a band, but they've never seen me play with like where we're as crazy as it is. We are a band for this moment. And we hit the stage like the heartbreakers. We're just ready to go get it. And my younger ones seeing that they have been different with me since this tour started. They're a little more like, where are you tonight, Dad? You guys play Maybelline last night?

39:34Dave Barnes:Like they're just like interested in a way that that that I've never seen. maybe they view that as more youthful and relatable i'm grateful to this tour for nothing else than that just like hey yes you know um that's so interesting like noel and greta are like our dad's an author and he speaks oh wait he's in a band now yeah that's cool yeah totally our dad tells bad jokes that are about us is kind of their perception of like Greta's constantly telling me, she's like, you're not that funny. I'm like, thank you. I appreciate this, Greta. Thank you. What kind of you.

40:13Jon McLaughlin:I am curious with, because Adeline is your second oldest. She's getting ready to graduate. Yes. I'm curious because Sophia graduated. You went through that a few years ago. And this is top of mind for me, even though I have a few years to go. but Luca's 13. I mean, it's going to be here before I know it. How is it coming up on your second girl graduating? Like, how do you feel about it versus the first go-round?

40:47Dave Barnes:It's incredibly hard. It's so correct, and it's exactly what has to happen. But, you know, they'll never be in your – you can't wind back that clock, you know? I know it's a cliche, but I mean, gosh, it's just you don't get it back. And you also it's like getting full at a buffet. It's not like you can eat more. You know, you're still going to have to. So it's not like if we they don't want to hang out every day now, you know, and it's not like I could. Oh, I've got it. We've got to do more things. You can't. We're doing as much as we can do. But you will never get back that moment in time of movie nights on Fridays and the whole family gathered in one spot.

41:32Dave Barnes:You get glimpses, you get moments, you get reprieves. But it's going to be very hard. And my daughter Adeline is kind of, in some ways, she has aspects of my personality. I've been told if you make a that that I can be difficult, if you make a mistake while you're on stage with me, I can sort of look at you and you know that you've made a mistake. And it's I'm not proud of this, but there is a lightning bolt that I'm capable of throwing. And I believe it to be true, because when I'm on stage with Adeline and I do something wrong, she looks at me just she doesn't even have to look at me. She just kind of glances my way.

42:15Dave Barnes:She's so good and nails her stuff so much that I'm like, oh, my God, is this how I've terrorized my bands for years with like just a glimpse my way that lets me know, like, you do that again. I'm not going to sing with you. I'm like, oh, my God. But it makes her great. You know, she's great. She's amazing. And I'm going to miss her good company and good humor and all the things, you know.

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44:21Jon McLaughlin:It is true, like, younger dads need to know this if they don't already know this. It's one of those things where, like, it's kind of obvious, but you don't really think about it. but like like you're saying like okay i've got four more years with my daughter i gotta really get those movie nights in but it's like no no they they're not gonna they have like uh plans with friends like you're gonna get some movie nights but it's not gonna be like

44:49Dave Barnes:the four years you just had with them well and the oldest two completely embrace this kind of like hey our family we do it's us against the world that's how the kellogg's are you know yeah and the third one was like nah i like my friends you know and noelle i i pushed against that and now i'm and through you know through julia ho getting some therapy and some help you're like oh wait a minute this is just how this is what lights her up she's very social in a way she's not introverted like yeah like the rest of us in that way she really thrives on being out in the world so rather than go against that, we've got to embrace that.

45:30But it's not my natural go-to.

45:34Dave Barnes:John, what is going on in your city here?

45:37Jon McLaughlin:I told the hotel to get the water going, not the fire alarm. They're trying to heat up the water with the fire.

45:44Dave Barnes:Let's see if it goes away. And also, I'll walk and see. I mean... This is hysterical. Sorry, guys. Hang on. I'll mute.

45:52Stephen Kellogg:This is kind of an exciting... It is. This is new for Deadpool.

45:55Dave Barnes:It's gone now. oh good see that's i mean you got that text went this is the oh this is like this this hotel's from like the 1940s i don't even know we're in fountain square it's like walking distance to the venue but we are uh i feel like i'm in an episode of pre-mad men or something yeah i guess we're good again maybe that means the water's back on the hoosier state

46:17Jon McLaughlin:i apologize we're trying so hard we're not ohio okay we're sorry we're trying oh my gosh

46:26Stephen Kellogg:one more question about the girls like have you is it's all girls four girls yeah four girls yeah okay have you found like um have you been amused at how you relate to them differently like have you found that you know as they're growing you really are like man she and i click so well this

46:43Dave Barnes:way she and i click this way you know yeah yeah it's so it's so different you know and so i'm a very super emotional and i'm a i'm a cuddler and like that worked with with uh the first couple and i had to learn you know greta greta doesn't want that she's kind of like she thrives on me going hey i came home with cookies but not for you i point at greta and that makes that she likes that she wants to bust with you know she wants to your ugly dad that makes her happy to kind of disparage me. That's one of her go-tos. Yeah, and I'm kind of like, who's this little animal that's not being nice to me?

47:24Dave Barnes:In the beginning, now I've learned to be like, oh, she's actually showing, this is affection. Meeting people where they're at in life. That's actually kids, everything. I mean, I don't know why it took as long as it did to get there, but I try to do that now. Just like, let's see where people are at and try to be okay with that. not need everybody to fit into what you were saying, Dave, that one size fits all. This is how you parent. People say you did a great job. If I had two kids, I'd be like, yeah, we kind of nailed it because they just kind of fell in really easily with our natural parenting instincts.

48:03Dave Barnes:And Noelle and Greta have had to adjust a lot more with. But they're amazing, and it's taught me so much to be in there. Yeah.

48:13Stephen Kellogg:Yeah, it's, I didn't, our youngest is kind of, it sounds like you're a third. And he is obviously such a delight, but he is just really different than our other two. He's, and so it's been interesting for me to kind of have to be okay with that in some ways. Because especially when there's momentum, you know, like your first two are a certain way and you're like, here we go. It's happening just like I want it. Everybody relates like I want them to, to me, you know. and then you sort of get the that that next one and it's like oh man okay i've got a he is just not falling in line that is not his vibe with but but man he loves these things and so if i learn that but it is i think a lot of um parents dreams have been dashed on the rocks of expectations of children that aren't like they that are just a different way yes and having to really go i'm going to realign my expectations and learn how to care for this kid.

49:10Stephen Kellogg:Cause man, like you said so well, then when it works, it's so sweet. It's just as sweet. It's just maybe not your natural for me. It's not my natural disposition. Like we don't connect quite in the ways that I do with my other two, but we have unbelievable connection on other things that I learned.

49:26Dave Barnes:And you got, and you talk about that on the podcast. do you ever feel like does your son is i i worry about this like are they internalizing like oh i'm the hard one for dad to get with like how does that go well i think the the biggest one with him

49:45Stephen Kellogg:is he's just not he is affectionate he's just not near as affectionate as the other two and i'm huge on physical touch and so you know i think he knows but he still will like we watched a movie friday night and he came and sat with me and we sat and kind of his version of snuggling which is just sitting by me which meant the world to me like because that's he doesn't always do that um so i think i've learned to enjoy that in ways and not make it a big deal because i think that's the hard thing it's like oh my god look sam's sitting he's like i'm out you ruin it if you

50:14Dave Barnes:if you let on that it means too much to you you have to play it cool i definitely though i do

50:20Jon McLaughlin:think about that a lot more now like when we started this podcast my girls were so young so I kind of felt like I could talk I could say whatever I wanted and at that point you know like Livvy was maybe talking a little bit at that they were just so young and I felt like I kind of had carte blanche to to say whatever and it was and it came off as like vulnerable and like meaningful now it's like yeah i gotta be i definitely have to be careful about what i say because yeah i'm i may think it's completely fine and in this context it's great but you know luca and livy may be like i cannot believe you said that they're listening to so much you know

51:08Dave Barnes:and i i have this joke that i do in the special where i'm like who here has kids and people raise their hand and then I'm like it's not that fun laugh laugh laugh you know you know as I was tuning this up and then it goes from there but then one night Greta goes yeah yeah yeah dad I know it's not that fun having us and I'm like oh god we actually called a family meeting before we shot the Amazon special the stand up special I just said look you guys if I'm telling the joke correctly I'm the butt of every joke It's not about you. Yeah. I am also, this is my story. You're going to have your story.

51:49Dave Barnes:I'm living life. These jokes are sort of intended for other people who are, you know, it's challenging running a household and making it all work. But so, you know, I love it. The jokes are never meant to hurt you guys. If you're uncomfortable with anything I'm saying, please feel free to bring it up to me. I'm trying to make a living here. And people seem to get some solidarity and humor out of this. I know that you may not think it's funny, but I'm not. And look, it's kind of like going on tour. I've addressed it. I've said I think the right things that allow me to go out. I can feel the laughs happening and the fact that the special came out.

52:30Dave Barnes:It's obviously hitting a chord with some people. But there is a risk that they're going to grow up. and there's lots of evidence that would indicate that I didn't love being a dad, which is not.

52:42Jon McLaughlin:But, you know, what's tricky is that, you know, they're not the parents. So, like, you ask who all has kids, people raise their hand. I mean, you know, I feel like I can say this with there's a.001 % of parents out there who are just the worst. But there's immediately this shared, unspoken, like, okay, we are now speaking about our children, which we would all jump into a burning building for without even thinking about it. So there's this unspoken, like, okay, we all, this is the greatest thing on earth. Now we can joke about it. And the jokes are funny because it's like there is some truth to it.

53:25Jon McLaughlin:But also we're talking about these kids who we would do anything for, you know. Which is not necessarily, from your kid's perspective, they're not starting from that place because they're the kid. They're not the parent.

53:36Dave Barnes:Yeah, they're not supposed to. And yet, inevitably, they see and hear these things because they're observing so much more than we think that they are, just like we did with our parents. And so it's a slippery slope. And we're also kind of in a moment in artistic history where subtext and context are not like, you know, the upshot is I love these kids so much I would do anything. It's evident in the special. also if you just pull sound bites which is kind of the world we're living in it sounds like you're saying things that are mean which really isn't the case you know it's I mean I don't think so and we're just there's so little room right now in the world for any kind of context or just benefit of the doubt anything you know

54:30Stephen Kellogg:yeah just the clip is like and that's why I hate my kids thank you guys for coming out to the stand-up special yeah I know

54:39Jon McLaughlin:I mean but not to get into the weeds of like the the building blocks of comedy but it's like if a if i see a guy up on stage who is like and that's why i hate being a dad and i'm like and i know him and i'm like yeah he does hate being a dad there's nothing funny about that no i mean only thing that's funny is if you know this guy would do anything for his kids he loves his kids and he loves being a dad then it's then it's like lets the air out of the room because you're like yeah i'm a dad too and it is the hardest thing I've ever done in my freaking life. Thank you for acknowledging that it sucks sometimes, you know?

55:13Jon McLaughlin:Yeah.

55:14Dave Barnes:I mean, imagine taking a test that you cannot possibly ace. It's impossible, no matter how much. And you talked earlier about my pro, you know, my predilection to working all the time. Like we work on this war room strategy sessions every night. My wife Kirsten and I are just sitting there. Should we do this? Should we do that? And sometimes I'm like, can we have our life back? Can we just, you know, for two seconds, just not have to worry about the happiness of others and that their life is going to go off the rails if we make one mistake or say one thing wrong, which it feels like most of the time.

55:55Jon McLaughlin:It's the best, though. If you're thinking about becoming a parent, just do it.

56:00Dave Barnes:okay i i think it's you gotta you gotta want to do it because it is gonna put everything to the test so i i never push it on anybody else i think what makes it the best is that you get instant unconditional love you don't have to work at it at all yeah yeah it's like the way alcohol just bam there goes your inhibitions you know like you don't you don't have to get that runner's high and work for like why do i feel so good it's just this instant thing that happens for you It sounds like I'm pushing alcohol. It's the second comment I made.

56:32Jon McLaughlin:What I'm taking from that is, Stephen Kellogg says, if you're thinking about running, don't. Drink alcohol. Just drink.

56:38Dave Barnes:Why waste your time? It's much easier to know. But you get instant, unconditional love with parenting, and that is cool. Absolutely. It's a special thing. Okay.

56:54Jon McLaughlin:There's so much stuff that we didn't get to. And we didn't even talk about your lovely wife, Kirsten, and how awesome she is, how long you guys have been married.

57:02Dave Barnes:Yeah, I got a pointer to this part in the podcast.

57:05Jon McLaughlin:Yeah, just have her start here. We end with a speed round. Okay. So this is a lightning round. Yeah, buckle up. Buckle. I'm going to kick it off. Okay. Stephen Kellogg can have dinner with four people, anyone alive or dead. Who are those people? present company excluded

57:27Dave Barnes:yeah okay yeah because that would have been obviously the first two I would like that dinner next time we're together I would go my grandfather was my hero wish I could hang out with him again probably my grandmother his wife my great those they're kind of my one and two I would tack Charles Dickens on there and I think the fourth one might just be Michelle Obama. Because I don't want to get around her. I respect that.

58:04Stephen Kellogg:Yeah. I respect that. Okay, second question. Listen, I'm going to phrase this. Best worst stage moment. Okay. Listen, you're coming up on 3K. There's got to be some doozies here. We could probably do a whole episode on just best

58:23Jon McLaughlin:Worst stage moments.

58:25Dave Barnes:Oh, God. You guys, the worst. There are quite a few, you know. But I did do a show at a woman's college in Virginia one time where the crowd was getting rowdy. And I said, I thought off mic, this is the worst crowd. and it it wasn't apparently off mic and that crowd got it got they started screaming at me and at us and we had to pack up they actually put me in the van they're like you stay in here and a woman yelled to me wow i was many years ago she yelled you'll never make it in new york okay you'll never make it in new york and that was one of those moments where you're like i think i just ruined everything like i'm not a nice person i'm the you know we were frustrated it was but i felt like they in my mind they they chased the van out of town that was that would be that would be a worse you know one of the best moments i ever had on stage was a show that we did together john that show at 9 30 club um and we kept getting encore yes i remember that it was incredible The dressing room, we had done three encores.

59:47Dave Barnes:I went up to the dressing room, and I was just hanging out, and like, wow, that was a good show. And at some point, the engineer came, and he's like, you're not going to go back out? And I was like, what? He's like, they're still clapping. They wouldn't leave. And I went out, and there's a picture of it, which is why it stays with me. But I remember being so overcome in that moment of just to be appreciated in that scale that people wanted four encores was very special.

1:00:18Jon McLaughlin:Yeah, I mean, that was your moment, and I remember that moment this many years later. I mean, it was incredible to see. They just wanted more to the point where it was like, I think you just went back out on stage, kind of tears in your eyes, and just kind of put your hands up, said thank you. I mean, what an incredible moment. You actually stole the next question. Where are you now?

1:00:44Dave Barnes:Come out now. Bring some of that energy to the current.

1:00:50Jon McLaughlin:Okay. If you're going to do, you could get the entire world's attention for five minutes. You can play them one song of yours. What song would you play?

1:01:03Dave Barnes:It's got to fit in five minutes. That rules some of the ones that I might consider. Well, let's say you've got seven and a half.

1:01:09Stephen Kellogg:We're doing extended flute solos. Yeah.

1:01:11Dave Barnes:Wow.

1:01:14Dave Barnes:I guess I'll play I'm Satisfied Man that's probably been my friend the most

1:01:21Stephen Kellogg:okay in conclusion here we go if you wrote a book about being a dad what would it be called

1:01:27Dave Barnes:take heart and show up that's a good title speed route you know I don't know that's good my comedy special is called maybe this will work so I mean that's That's good. There's also... That's good too. That could also be epitaph worthy.

1:01:49Jon McLaughlin:Well, Stephen Kellogg, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. This was a long time coming. You guys... It was great chatting with you, man. Congrats on 3 ,000 shows. That's amazing.

1:02:00Stephen Kellogg:Amazing.

1:02:01Dave Barnes:It's awesome. I'm so, so honored to be in both of your company and to be part of this podcast. then really I appreciate the conversation guys yeah well hey here's to a hot shower that you find today somewhere I know hopefully that loud alarming jarring beeping that was going on in this very old hotel was something to do with the water that would be cool that's too I mean I grew up in Indiana that typically means hot water's ready okay thank you I'm glad I had you to decode

1:02:30Jon McLaughlin:some of the experiences I'm having here no no no oh you thought it was a fire alarm no no that's Yeah, that's the water alarm.

1:02:37Stephen Kellogg:It's an old tradition. Steve, you're the best, man. Have a great show tonight. See you guys.

1:02:42Jon McLaughlin:rumm rumm rumm rumm rumm rumm rumm rumm dadville

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