The Gates of Teenage Thunderdome

9:09Dave Barnes:You can't make jokes about our mission unless you're a member. Oh, shoot. Okay, well. So sorry. Sorry. But yeah, and then meeting physical needs. That's part of the ministry of the church, too, is ministry of deed, whereas people needed lots of things, like trees on houses and power went out and can we help can we help meet some of those needs so it was beautiful to watch the church be the church that week and um yeah but that that's been going

9:34Elliott Cherry:on um well you know i was going to say really quickly i think two things one it's ice storms are so tricky because snow you can still kind of get around right ice is fun outside and you're seeing the ice is terrifying to drive on right especially when it was as cold as it was in the single digits and it's refreezing over and over and over. And then two, all of Nashville's trees were down. So even if you could potentially drive to them, you couldn't get there. And so I think it must've been a humbling thing too, to know as a pastor, you're like, I hear you and we don't really know. Like so-and-so tried to, we tried to get to you.

10:09Dave Barnes:I mean, that was, that was honestly, so I've said this a lot in different seasons and I mean this, this is not like pseudo humility, which I have a lot of but not this but I've said if I was in Nashville looking for a church I don't know if I would go to 12 South where I pastor and it's not like I don't trust the pastor there it's more like we're crammed it's not able to be super hospitable community's hard because there's four services I don't know that I would choose to go there but I love our church I love getting to shepherd it and pastor it but I don't know if it would be the church I would go to but then you get to sit back as a pastor on a week like that.

10:46Dave Barnes:And I got to do a lot that week to help people and meet with people and talk to people. But you just start hearing stories of the church being the church for the city. And you go, like the number of people that like open up their homes to strangers and come move in with us, the number of people who like fed their elderly neighbors, make sure they were, you know, it was like, oh, I want to go to a church where that happens. That's right. And I want to be a part of a place that does stuff like that. Like there was one couple at our church who like their elderly neighbors were like stuck in with no power and they like literally saved their life.

11:17Dave Barnes:Like the National Guard came in and they were like helping them break into the house to get in and it was like, it was, so it was like, oh, and they weren't asking the church to come help them do that. They were just doing what the church does. And it is in, sadly, in crisis, the church gets to shine sometimes. So I was proud of our church.

11:37Jon McLaughlin:I know, it makes me feel like there was an element of like everyone stops, everyone's broken out of your normal rhythm of life which is not there's nothing wrong with the rhythm a lot i love our our rhythm but um and then you start to just see other people right and there's this on a very you know basic level like you know taking firewood to right an elderly neighbor you don't really ever talk to right you're checking on them right now right it's like

12:08Dave Barnes:texting your pastor to make sure they have a place to stay. Sure, sure.

12:12Jon McLaughlin:And you're totally fine. You're down in Nolan's boat.

12:14Dave Barnes:Which means I'm not fine. If you're in, if I'm at my in-laws, that doesn't, yeah. But yeah, it's like, how do we come back to our normal life

12:27Jon McLaughlin:but maintain all the beautiful parts of that week?

12:32Elliott Cherry:Well, I think the thing that's so tricky about what we believe, John and I, at least Elliot, I know you're kind of working through some of this stuff still, but is, you know. Can I turn this into another acronym? Yeah. Whatever you want to say. It's need. Yeah. No, but I think it's really easy for me and people, God, I'm annoyed I'm about to say this, but people in the West, but like need is not a posture that we're familiar with, which is hysterical because it is absolutely crucial to what we believe. Like if we don't need Jesus, then what's the point of Christianity? Yeah, game over. And I think in those moments, your point, John, it's this really beautiful moment where need is real and you can't swallow it you can't sort of fake your way through it yeah and then it gives i told i told you know brad stayed with us with ali and in their son that week here in the back house and it was so fun they were with us for five or six nights yeah and um and i told brad i was like this is what you gotta understand like i want to thank you for letting us take care of you because i think something we forget about is that, yes, the person who is in need absolutely gets cared for.

13:35Elliott Cherry:Right. And the need is met. Right. But we so underestimate what hospitality does for your spirit. Man. Like, it is just as profound, I think, as the person that's getting the help is giving the help. Totally. And I think when we limit people's ability to care for us, we're not just hindering our growing. Right. We're hindering them being blessed too. And so I think those moments are so beautiful because, and I think it's just It's a pungent thing you feel because the spirit is just so strong in two ways. It's not just like, I think we forget, like, oh, well, he got help and that was great. But it's like, man, Annie and I were so fortunate to get to care for them.

14:14Dave Barnes:Yeah, everybody wants to be the good Samaritan. No one wants to be the God on the side of the road who needs the good Samaritan to come. And the truth is we are both and called to actually be both. Like, let people care for you. Let Jesus care for you. and then you can go care for others in the same way. But there is a like, in that story, I don't ever want to associate with the guy who's on the side of the road and left for dead. So it's true.

14:39Jon McLaughlin:I think if we all could collectively shift our lives to this sweet spot of like, we're not in complete desperation. We're not completely on the side of the road helpless. Because if everyone's on the side of the road helpless, that's a different story. But if we, you know, we are in need, but we still have things to offer, and then we can become as a community this sort of like collective, like Acts Church. To need and to need it. Yeah, that's right. But that would be going against really what is implicitly the motto of the world we live in. I mean, it's like you, you are like on the grind working, you know, saving the money.

15:28Dave Barnes:I'm building my life to eliminate need from my life. That's right. That's exactly right. I mean, I'm not, but I was going to say that doesn't resonate with me. But I've got our listeners. Yeah.

15:40Elliott Cherry:Oh man, John. Hey, what's going on? I'm just feeling especially secure today. You know? Yeah, I know. I don't know what it is. Well, can I tell you what some of it is? Yeah. Tell me. home security. And it's important to me because I want to know that my family and friends are as safe and secure as possible. Well, of course.

15:58Jon McLaughlin:I mean, that's so true, Dave. And having visibility into my home with Cove is a great anxiety relief. Ah, it chills you up. Remember that time that you got lost in the neighborhood? I don't want to talk about it. And like nobody could find you. I don't want to talk about it. But then I checked my Cove on my phone and I saw that you were just walking aimlessly, shirtless outside the front door. Listen, I heard there was chocolate

16:16Elliott Cherry:and like a moth to a flame. Yeah. It was a weird day. It was a good day eventually, but Andy settled me down with a little chocolate because she knew that's always what works. But Cove saved the day from that day for sure and the chocolate. Cove is the best home security system out there because it alerts you to the unexpected, gives you peace of mind when you need it most, and is an affordable system. That's right. Less than$1 a day.

16:38Jon McLaughlin:It's like they're not interested in making money. They're just interested in your security. Is it a non-profit, John? Right? And Dave, it only takes 30 minutes to set up your entire system. Now, I love how I can stream live video and audio right to my phone and my control panel. So even without a phone, my kids can see what's happening in real time.

16:57Elliott Cherry:If you're thinking about adding a home security system, affordability and simplicity should matter because you need it to work well and not break the bank. That's why Cove is the best.

17:06Jon McLaughlin:That's right. Make protecting your home a top priority. Check out Cove at covesmart.com slash dad and use the code dad at checkout for up to 70 % off your first order. They don't care about money, John. I know. That's not what they're in it for. And if you get a survey, please let them know that you heard about Cove from this podcast in this. Dadville. That's right. Get your security on.

17:40Jon McLaughlin:Hey, everybody, it's John here. It's just going to be me on this one because I'm that passionate about it. Now, listen, I want to tell you about Time for Learning. Time for Learning believes in harnessing the flexibility of homeschool to help families explore passions, travel, and hobbies without the constraints of traditional school hours. So you could have school like on top of a mountain, right? Or in the middle of the ocean, whatever. You can schedule a mix of subjects each day or focus on specific ones by the day. Time for Learning is incredible in the way that it has everything you need to teach pre-K through 12th grade at home with all the core and elective classes offered in a traditional brick and mortar school.

18:21Jon McLaughlin:Now, the cinema series, it might be my favorite. It's rich, story-driven courses for grades 6 through 12 that bring learning to life. Get started with a monthly plan to see if Time for Learning is right for you and your family. You got multiple students? you can save up to 30 % by opting for an annual plan. Time for Learning's templates for transcripts, grades, and diplomas make it easy to match homeschool requirements in all 50 states. And the templates can be used as a main curriculum, supplement, or even afterschool or summer learning series. Now, for me personally, I'm just thinking how Time for Learning could help us musicians while we're on tour.

19:02Jon McLaughlin:I mean, we could educate our little ones every day in any city right before sound check. I mean, that would be living the dream. And after 20 years of over 1 million students served, Time for Learning is the best way to nurture confident future forward kids and get them ready to thrive in college and career. If you're curious if Time for Learning is right for your family, visit timeforlearning.com. That's T-I-M-E, the number four, and learning.com to explore the curriculum and find the perfect plan for your student. You can even get started with just a monthly subscription to see how much your kids enjoy learning on their own terms.

19:42Jon McLaughlin:Timeforlearning.com

19:52Elliott Cherry:Hopefully built wardrobe comes down to pieces that mix well and last. That's where Quint shines. premium fabrics, considered design, and everyday essentials that feel effortless to wear and dependable even as the seasons change. You know why I love Quince? It has the everyday essentials I love with quality that lasts. Lightweight cashmere sweaters, linen shorts, tees, and 100 % Pima cotton. These are the versatile pieces that make a wardrobe actually work season to season. The reason the value is great is because Quince works directly with top factories and cuts out the middlemen. You're not paying for brand markup.

20:28Elliott Cherry:No, no, just quality clothing. Everything is built to hold up to regular wear and still look good. And they only partner with factories that meet rigorous standards for craftsmanship and ethical production. Those linen shorts I mentioned, they've become my go-to. I have four pairs. That's one more than three. They don't wrinkle like cheap linen does and they work with everything and they didn't cost a fortune either. Stop overcomplicating your wardrobe. You don't need a closet full options. You need a few pieces that actually work right now. Go to quince.com slash dadville for free shipping and 365 day returns.

21:03Elliott Cherry:That's a full year to build your wardrobe and love it. And you will now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last you silly geese. Go to quince.com slash dadville for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash dadville.

21:26Elliott Cherry:You know one thing I was going to say really quickly about the ice storm that I wonder if y 'all felt, that I was reminded of, being with Brad and Allie, and we had some people coming through. We didn't have y 'all, Elliot, but we had some people come through. You know the blessing you were talking about? It's actually, there's seven humans. That were members of our church, and that's what you get with Covenant, is you'll get open doors. And Covenant Church, where the doors are always open. Where Satan does Sabbath. Where Satan does not do Sabbath. Where Satan does do Sabbath. but but like it was just it is so a friend of mine said this so well and I forget who it was I'm gonna say John just for the credit so he can get a little bump and listens with that but we were talking about how being with people and you kind of inferred this John like being with people in what you said with your family when you don't have really anything to do after a few days because somebody said it well they were like it's so different than when like being with Brad and Allie and Teddy, their son, at the beach is very much still being with them.

22:27Elliott Cherry:But it's a little more transitory. You're kind of running where they're going. And then at night, you get these kind of good downloads. But by the third day of this, and I picked third day too because... Biblical. The band. No, the band. Shout out to Mac Powell. But you're kind of like, pretty caught up. And it's just such a different being. like how to be in that is really and it really does it really like sort of is like a little tap on the human soul for me at least I just found I was like wow I haven't and Brad even says when was the last time we just were like we're just together just being together

23:06Dave Barnes:all the things we would catch up on normally we've kind of run out of those things and so now can we actually just be with each other

23:14Elliott Cherry:yeah that's exactly right and that is such a weird thing to say that is a lot harder than you think it is to just be just to like sit there and quiet and you know whatever we're doing watching a game because it's 1 o 'clock and we're kind of bored whatever we're doing you just kind of realize am I okay with just like there's Brad and I we're just like sitting here that's really good that's a profound exercise

23:43Dave Barnes:that you don't ever get to do

23:45Elliott Cherry:COVID which you said we did that but I was reminded of how weird that feeling is

23:52Dave Barnes:yeah it's vulnerable it requires a lot if I've got nothing to prove or pretend right now can I just be here with you yeah makes you realize how often you

24:07Jon McLaughlin:triangulate all the time even when it's just you and one other person you can triangulate with a conversation a different thing

24:13Dave Barnes:I think we should do it the rest of this podcast Okay, here we go.

24:19Elliott Cherry:Okay, for those who aren't, we just did an edit. We were sitting like that for three hours.

24:24Jon McLaughlin:It felt like 10 minutes to me. I was just centered. Yeah, it's good. It reminds me, though, of today's Ash Wednesday.

24:35Dave Barnes:Today's Ash Wednesday that we're recording. When will this get released? Like in a couple of weeks? I doubt we will. Ash Wednesday, 2027, probably.

24:41Elliott Cherry:John and I do these as kind of warm-ups for the podcast. We have a guest coming in about an hour. What if that was true? it's like warming up before soccer

24:50Jon McLaughlin:this is just to get all the bad ideas out

24:55Elliott Cherry:and plus you're such a loose cannon Elliot we want to be quick on our feet conversation not going well where do we go with it John

25:02Dave Barnes:I love the like I mean in medium when will this be released oh I'm not recording at all actually

25:10Jon McLaughlin:that's a screensaver

25:12Dave Barnes:oh man I literally no I was actually thinking on pondering reading some on Ash Wednesday this morning and the beginning of Lent season and all its beauty. So sorry, I was going to say something about it, but I cut you off. I'm sorry.

25:27Jon McLaughlin:Well, I was just going to say, do you feel, for those who celebrate, you know, Lent, for me, a lot of times Lent comes around and it's like a New Year's resolution. It's like somehow I didn't know it was coming. And then it's like two hours before and I'm like, what can I give up? You know? But for you, do you feel pressure to give up TV and food every month? Insulin. I'm a diabetic.

25:51Elliott Cherry:Oh, my gosh. Really hoping. Every time it's like, another year in a row. Is your faith real?

25:57Dave Barnes:Do you need that insulin? Oh, we build ourselves that have no need, and now you think you. No, we are doing – we started this last year. John, I don't know if you came, and Dave definitely didn't, but we're starting the Lent season. I drove the other way. We're doing an event called Stations of the Cross. Oh, cool. Kind of clear out the downstairs of our building.

26:21Elliott Cherry:Kind of a haunted house thing.

26:23Dave Barnes:I mean, it kind of is where there's some Scott Erickson artwork of the 12 Stations of the Cross. How great is his stuff? And just some meditations in each room. It's really well done.

26:32Jon McLaughlin:Side note, I love it when we do that. Dude, it's great. Whenever you guys have like a short little, like you put some artwork up and then we just look at it and kind of meditate.

26:41Dave Barnes:I love that. Well, tonight is the second year and it's really beautiful to go ponder and meditate the beginning of the Lent season through Jesus' sufferings. We don't ask people, and I'm not against this in other traditions that do, to quote unquote give up something or fast from something for Lent. I think that our tradition has probably swung too far away from doing that as like we don't want to be legalistic because there really is, the heart of it is this is a season to meditate and remember the sufferings of Jesus and to share in the sufferings with him. So what's something you could give up that every time you want to participate or engage with that thing, it would create a little bit of pain for you.

27:19Dave Barnes:And that's actually not being masochistic. That's actually sharing in the sufferings of Jesus to go like, oh, and now I'm remembering his pain, which is astronomically more painful than me not eating sugar for the next 40, whatever. But this is putting a little physical experience in the way of me remembering what Jesus has suffered for me. That's a great practice. Which it is.

27:40Jon McLaughlin:It's tricky. I mean, there's nuance to it. Totally. Which only the person themselves would know what side of that they're following.

27:47Dave Barnes:And the goal is not necessarily like, well, I'm going to give up certain sins. It's like, well, that... You should try to do that anyway. Yeah, do that anyway. Counting down the days. Yeah, count all this so I can just go crazy again. but it is like there are things that basically is like what is the thing in your life that maybe has a hold on you that you do effortlessly without even thinking about doom scrolling drinking beer giving money away sorry you were going a different direction Venmoing Elliot but there is like a reality of like oh yeah we've all got something that has its grip on us that we don't even know has its grip on us and so it might even be the best if you without answering your question I'll answer it with a question to say, maybe ask someone close to you, what do you think I should give up for the next 40 days?

28:31Dave Barnes:Oh, I don't like that.

28:31Elliott Cherry:Let's edit that out, Jason. Terrible idea. God, that's good. That's really, that's tough. You know, sidebar, you know what a buddy of mine said, and I thought about this the other day, that feels like the same question, is if you want to know a man's reputation, ask his family. Oof. Yosh. Yeah. Somebody said that, and I was like, go.

28:52Dave Barnes:No, please, ask him in a couple months.

28:54Elliott Cherry:We're about to ask his coworkers or that one guy he knew in high school.

28:59Dave Barnes:Ask the guy he tweets with. Yeah.

29:01Elliott Cherry:Those kind of questions are really humbling. Yeah. And especially towards your family. Yeah.

29:08Dave Barnes:It wasn't Brother Lawrence. There's some church father. Joey Lawrence. Somewhere. Yes. I think it was Joey Lawrence. Whoa.

29:21Dave Barnes:someone said and there'll be and it was probably joey uh some reality of like who you are is truly is who you are in the private in private with the lord yeah like that yeah that is your truest self and so like do you know that person um which i don't you don't need it yeah that's i don't want to go there i'm not interested in those things yeah no thanks but yeah it's of Lent. And I don't know, this will probably come out after Easter, this episode. So people, this will be your guide for next year's Lent. We'll talk about that. We're going to just hold it. Save this. We'll hold it for a whole year.

29:52Dave Barnes:And the event I just announced at our church, you've definitely missed it. They've missed it.

29:56Elliott Cherry:But it was amazing. It was. Unbelievable. I love that y 'all do that, though. I think we can miss out, especially in sort of like our reform tradition on experiential things like that. Yeah, yeah. And I love that you did that.

30:08Dave Barnes:We actually, we'll put all the artwork in some, this is for real. We do it in the building tonight but then we'll move all the artwork with like the guides and qr codes at each station on the outside of our church oh that's cool so that the neighborhood as they're walking by and they're in like some weatherproof frames outside and so people that's so cool i want to go check that out it's really i i'm proud of the team this was not my doing again it's one of the things where it's like man i don't know if i'd go to this church i'll get i want to go to church that does that kind of stuff though and i had nothing to do with it so i just get to go participate which is great That's so cool.

30:39Dave Barnes:Yeah. Another update. Still got five kids. They're lovely. I have a teenage daughter.

30:45Jon McLaughlin:Do you remember the first time you came on Dadville? Do you remember? I'm trying to think of like four.

30:51Dave Barnes:You had four. My fourth just turned five. So it was probably four or five years ago because I think it was right after we had four. Yeah. I think that's right. I think that's right. So yeah, it's probably been four years-ish. My five-year-old just turned five last month. But got a teenage girl, 11-year-old boy, 9-year-old – sorry, no, that's not true. 7-year-old daughter, 5-year-old daughter, 3-year-old daughter.

31:16Elliott Cherry:Wait, do that one more time.

31:18Dave Barnes:13-year-old girl, 11-year-old boy, 7-year-old girl, 5-year-old girl, 3-year-old girl.

31:25Jon McLaughlin:Gosh. I feel like we should have a moment of silence. Do you want to take a nap? John and I can just kind of talk to each other.

31:32Dave Barnes:I don't want to take a nap. John and I talk often, because we talk outside of just Dadville episodes.

31:38Elliott Cherry:So John, he'll text you back. That actually is fair. I love that.

31:42Dave Barnes:Dave has texted me, and I owe him a couple of others. Are you good at texting back?

31:48Elliott Cherry:I mean, I'm probably better at it than most, but I'm not amazing. I'm getting worse. I feel like me too.

31:56Dave Barnes:Okay, here's a little life hack that has worked a little bit for me on it. Apple iMessage will let you pin conversations to the top of your I'll pin conversations that I know I need to respond to

32:10Elliott Cherry:and that helps I'll keep them unread but then it's like let's just get buried get what? buried they get married they get married to who I am and it becomes it abuses into me so deep so I want to ask you When you think about the last couple of years, how is where you are now different than a couple of years ago?

32:40Dave Barnes:Man, I would love to ask my family that question. I hope they would answer that the way I would want them to and would make them. I hope one of the ways I'm growing as a husband and a father is... So I'm reading this book right now, and this is putting language as something I feel. and when someone, it's what songwriters do, it's what y 'all do, is like when you can put language as something that someone is experiencing, it's, man, it just unlocks the treasure chest. But reading a book right now called Hints of Hope, Essays on Making Peace with the Proximate by a guy named Steve Garber. Have you read Steve Garber?

33:15Dave Barnes:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Golly. He's out of DC, but he's done a lot. And this is his new, it came out. He's a stud. Came out a month ago. And his whole idea is the proximate is the word he uses for like reality in our frame, like the way the world is. Yeah. And what Christians are able to do is to like mourn and grieve and groan for the way things are, but they make peace with it and are still full of hope and they can actually love the reality that they are in because they're not expecting the reality they're in to be beyond the frame that we're in. It's like hope is coming. Heaven is coming, but right now it's not.

33:57Dave Barnes:So I don't live my life demanding that right now be heaven. That's a good one. Because I'm making peace with the proximate. That's, I mean, living backwards, living life backwards. The Ecclesiastes book, yeah. Very much that's it. So it's like, and the work it takes to make peace with the proximate and the pain, like he says in the opening chapter, I'm sad all the time, but it hasn't stopped me from loving the world that God has put me in. Yeah, that's great. But that takes work to not... Honestly, that's some of the work you were talking about earlier about, can you just be with someone? That would require that I'm okay that this interaction and this conversation doesn't go the way that I demand it to go.

34:35Dave Barnes:Or I don't have to leave this interaction feeling a certain way. I can just be here because I've made peace with the proximate. And so I feel that with each stage of kid, each stage of marriage, each stage of life in the insanity of chaos and beauty that we're in is like both things are really true. he asked the question can you see the world for all that it is and still love it and it's like can you see your family for all that it is and still love it and not demand that it be heavenly right now he says heaven is not coming to earth right now are you okay with that

35:06Elliott Cherry:Stephen Curtis Chapman would push back with heaven and the real world but keep going it's his treatise he's been on

35:15Dave Barnes:has he?

35:17Elliott Cherry:no he's not a listener

35:18Dave Barnes:okay that's fair

35:20Elliott Cherry:he may have listened to that one

35:21Dave Barnes:Yeah, he listened to his. By the way, he posted, Robert Duvall just died.

35:26Elliott Cherry:Oh, yeah, his song.

35:27Dave Barnes:Yeah, he had a song in that movie. It's a great tune. The Apostle or whatever. Yeah, that's a great.

35:31Elliott Cherry:That was a great movie, by the way. I think I've seen it. It's worth a watch. It's great.

35:35Dave Barnes:Was Robert Duvall a believer?

35:36Elliott Cherry:I don't know, but he had a lot of, I feel like, faith-adjacent roles in his life.

35:41Dave Barnes:That's kind of how I feel about being a pastor. He's got kind of his faith-adjacent role.

35:44Elliott Cherry:It's like, do you know if Elliot actually is a Christian? You don't know, man. He's got a faith-adjacent role, though. Yeah, he is close to it. He's a seeker. We pray for him.

35:51Dave Barnes:He's a seeker friendly. So that whole making peace with the proximate, are you okay? Can you bear up in the joy and suffering of what your life is and hold both of them? I mean, it's like having a teenage daughter. That's full of both of those things. And we have a great teenage daughter, and she is a teenage daughter. Having a three-year-old is both of those things. And she is a great three-year-old, but it is both of those things. and being married for 16 years is both those things. And I don't want to be married to anybody else, but it is both those things. So I think what I've grown in is maybe what it has produced in me that I need more than certain people.

36:32Dave Barnes:Like we would all need to grow in certain ways in order to do what I just said. I think what I need is probably patience and contentment.

36:42Elliott Cherry:Well, do you feel like that's particular to our Enneagram number? Yes. man do i struggle with that good night do i struggle with that can you as sevens you need patience and what contentment contentment is about i mean patience of course yeah but yeah i think

36:57Dave Barnes:discontentment drives impatience yes so i'm like can i can i be patient in this thing this moment this interaction this season wanting it to be more not wanting it to to hurt like all the things can I'd be patient and content with what is. So yeah, I think I've grown. I think I'm a little bit more patient, but you shouldn't ask me. You should ask the people around me. Yeah. But it's true. That feels real to me. What would you, I mean, I'm looking at John who's not a seven and thinking, what would you go, this is what I need, I think. That's a good question. To be able to make peace with what is.

37:33Dave Barnes:You would need to grow in what area? Have more of. That's a great question.

37:38Elliott Cherry:You can say we ask the questions if you want to say that right now.

37:43Jon McLaughlin:If you want to get out. Jason, edit all this out. I would say, I mean, faith really, like, it's a combination of like, I need to be doing all that I can do. And it's kind of like the serenity prayer. kind of like, Lord grant me the strength to whatever it is.

38:11Elliott Cherry:I was so excited when you started that. I was like, I can't wait.

38:15Jon McLaughlin:Grant me the strength to change what I can change, be okay with what I can't change, and the wisdom to know the difference.

38:24Dave Barnes:Is that close? I feel like that's a Seinfeld quote.

38:26Elliott Cherry:Yeah, you're so serene.

38:29Jon McLaughlin:Yeah, you've heard the serenity prayer so much. Yeah, it's one of my tattoos somewhere. I think that that is it though like my I definitely what I struggle with this is what I was going to ask you actually is like what on a daily basis what brings me to a point where I'm even squaring up with my shortcomings is where my my daughters are not doing whatever X, Y, or Z exactly the way I would have expected them to do which which really is probably just what my upbringing was you know yeah yeah and so whenever we're off that grid which we're not we're not we're not even close to that it's not even the same yeah then like not panicking not just turning it into like i'm a failure as a dad but owning up to whatever part of that you know whatever my shortcomings is useful to own up to am I doing all that I can do and then beyond that just having faith that they're going to be okay this is just teenage years

39:45Dave Barnes:how many teenage years are there? six? we've lived through this for six years? I think it's the seven stages of Hades it's seven of them we've been in the teenage years for years way before they turned 13 we were in the teenage years yeah yeah you've got a teenager don't you dave ben is 14 yeah so the answer is yes yeah yeah i wanted you to do the math yeah because i wasn't sure but teenage boys different than teenage girl lots of hormones but still what's what's teenage boy life like for us it's been um yeah i mean i

40:17Elliott Cherry:think he's a um ben is like maybe one of the easiest kids in the world so it's kind of a cheat code um and that he's just not super dramatic now what we they're more flares though where that was never a thing with him right right where he'll kind of get loud and defensive which is kind of like whoa you know that was not sort of one of your right in the arsenal before you yeah this is new yeah it's new um but um yeah i mean it's it's been manageable at this point yeah zanna's 11 so we'll you know we're entering we're kind yeah we're like thunderdome the gates of thunderdome are open and we're slowly walking into the arena for me having four girls my oldest

41:00Dave Barnes:being a girl i grew up with all boys and so my gosh teenage thing like that's right with with girls and my wife has sisters so she but the first hints of those things when you're like gates of thunderdome and you're like what is this is this wait what my wife is like you need to buckle up buddy oh like put on the armor now right yeah because that is not that was what you just saw was nothing that was that's amazing yeah that was that was a brush yeah we're talking about like the the gates of of like mountain doom yeah yeah yeah yeah you don't know you know you know what

41:35Elliott Cherry:i think i think the thing that's felt trickiest i mean we're not even round one yet you know but with both i think zanna and ben have been that they're just much more verbose in how they feel about things they're much more defensive there's a lot more putting their feet down yeah which again you think about developmentally right anybody that has even half of a degree is like this this is where this is what's happening yeah but i think that's where annie and i can get a little like um like it's a little chin music like we can kind of reel a little i'm like wait we're not okay

42:07Dave Barnes:you know two things on that can i can i just talk a little more please do yeah because we're not recording we're not releasing this anyway yeah you can yeah um two thoughts on that one is i've heard sissy goff who's the what i'm the pastor dadville but her and david or she's the governor he's the governor yeah and david's the mayor yeah um i've heard her say i don't know if she said on this podcast or not because i don't listen but um i've heard her say at some seminars uh like if your kids are like being you know well well respected and behaved out in public but they act out at home yeah you're doing a like like that's a good thing because they feel safe at home to like push the boundary and that that's a good thing i'm like well then we are i'm about to make a trophy we are crushing this i mean it's true that really is so encouraging yes the tricky

43:00Jon McLaughlin:thing is at home there has to be some i mean like yes that's true they feel totally safe yeah they I also, and Lisa DeMoor has...

43:09Dave Barnes:I'd like you to feel a little less safe.

43:11Jon McLaughlin:Yeah. How can we make them feel a little less safe? Maybe I can scare you physically.

43:14Elliott Cherry:I would never do anything, but I don't know. Do you feel a little?

43:17Jon McLaughlin:Just a little. Yeah. How many bench presses do I need to do in your presence? Dr. Lisa DeMoor talks about how long their days are. They're at school for like... She's been really helpful for me to actually empathize with our teenage daughter. but you know they get home and yes all of that is true they they have a lot of emotions going on they're they're a hostage to their most emotions as we all are but maybe way more so in their

43:47Dave Barnes:right developmental stage we have tools that they don't have yeah yeah yeah but but then the tricky

43:52Jon McLaughlin:part is okay at what point right where do i put these guardrails right right right i mean i'm picking battles but when there's 960 battles yeah and it's all it's 530 like which ones do

44:06Elliott Cherry:do i pick well i feel like you can so true you can feel them i mean y 'all know this with with girls you know these ages you can feel them doing it like you can feel them going i've never actually done that before how did this go yeah so the workshopping of it is way out in the open totally but but then like you said it's that weird combination of this is how i was raised so i

44:29Jon McLaughlin:got that sort of totally back there um and am i a failure as a parent if my kid's upbringing doesn't

44:35Elliott Cherry:look doesn't look like that and i think too you know the respect piece for men right man when that gets attacked it is like boy there are parts of me i didn't know that could be animated quite like right now. John. Hey. Whoa. Gosh. Sorry. We're both so excited. Can I tell you why I'm excited? Please. John, life is full of what ifs. Yeah. What if I fail? What if I fail, yeah. What if no one likes me? Yep. What if no one listens? No one listens. Yep. And those questions sound even louder when you're starting something new, John. Oh my gosh. But there are some things you can do to really help yourself out.

45:07Elliott Cherry:Okay, tell me. Something that can make the difference in getting over the hump when you start a business. Tell me. Partnering with someone who knows how to help. Not just you, John, but someone else. That's right.

45:17Jon McLaughlin:I knew it, Dave. Shopify. That's right. You know why? Why? Shopify gives you everything you need to sell online and in person. Not just in person and not just online. Both. Millions of entrepreneurs have already made this leap from household names to first-time business owners just getting started. I love that. And I was assuming, are we part of the household names? Yeah. At this point. Yeah. Depending on the household. If my parents live there, yeah.

45:41Elliott Cherry:Okay. Well, can I tell you one more thing? Please. Get started with your own design studio, John. I've been telling you that for years. with hundreds of ready-to-use templates, Shopify helps you build a beautiful online story that matches your brand style. That's so true.

45:52Jon McLaughlin:And let me tell you something, Dave. Okay, sure. You can accelerate your efficiency whether you're uploading new products or trying to improve existing ones. Shopify is packed with helpful AI that stands for artificial intelligence. Oh, nice. Tools that write product descriptions, page headlines, and even enhance your product photography. Get the word out

46:10Elliott Cherry:like you have a marketing team behind you, John. Easily create email and social media campaigns wherever your customers are scrolling and strolling.

46:19Jon McLaughlin:Dave, it's time to turn those what-ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your$1 per month trial. You heard me. Yeah. $1 per month trial at shopify.com slash dadville. Go to shopify.com slash dadville.

46:35Elliott Cherry:That's shopify.com slash dadville. Good job.

46:49Elliott Cherry:John. Dave. Can I pick a subject that we talk about right now? Please. Bed sheets. Go. Okay. Here's the thing. Say whatever you're thinking.

46:55Jon McLaughlin:Because I feel so passionately about this. Okay. Okay. You know what I don't like? What? Tell me. Bad bed sheets. Hashtag. Okay. When the corners won't stay put, the fabric's super thin, you can practically see through it. When they're scratchy. Scratchy, yes. Oh, you wake up like in all hours of the night, you're too hot, You're uncomfortable. It's miserable.

47:13Elliott Cherry:John, if your sheets are thinning, slipping, or overheating, that's your sign. It's time to upgrade to Bowl & Branch. Bowl & Branch's signature sheets are made from 100 % organic cotton. Yes. And are designed to hold their shape, unlike me in college, stay breathable, and feel luxuriously soft every night.

47:31Jon McLaughlin:Dave, I'm not switching to Bowl & Branch unless you tell me that I'll fall asleep faster, stay comfortable all night, not just some of the night, and actually notice the difference the very moment I get into bed and that they won't wear out.

47:45Elliott Cherry:Oh, John, I've got some good news for you because all of the above is happening. They get softer with every watch. Yes. And wash, John. You can sit there. You can just watch them. They're so comfortable. You just fall asleep looking at them. Sleep sound with Bowling Branch. Get 15 % off, plus free shipping on your first set of sheets at bowlingbranch.com.

48:04Jon McLaughlin:That's bowlingbranch, B-O-L-L-A-N-D, Thebranch.com slash dadville to save 15 % and unlock free shipping. Exclusions apply.

48:17Elliott Cherry:It's a strange shift, isn't it? The parent who raised you needs some help. And you want to be there. With Care.com, you don't have to do it alone. Whether you're clear on the kind of care your aging loved one needs or still figuring it out, we've got support. Find background-checked in-home senior caregivers for anything from companionship to dementia care. Or browse senior living communities, read reviews, even schedule a tour. Plus, access to safety checks to help with your peace of mind. Still not sure what's best?

48:48Dave Barnes:Our senior care advisors, who are all master's-level social workers, can help you build a plan.

48:53Elliott Cherry:For a limited time, use the code PODCAST20 for 20 % off your initial Care.com subscription. That's PODCAST20, all one word, good for 20 % off. Start your senior care journey with confidence. And I think, too, like, you know, we had a really tough afternoon yesterday with the kids. And two of them. What did you do wrong? Honestly. No, no, I know. I had, like, a thing last night kind of going, like. Because the thing that I can tell, especially with Zanna, is that she is constantly reading me. For, what did I say that just hurt dad's feelings? But also, I'm a little bit of the barometer sometimes where I feel like she's got me going, mom is going to get mad about things because I'm a girl and I know how to make her mad.

49:40Elliott Cherry:But if I made you mad, something feels weird. And that's really rare for me to where I really, like last night, I kind of withdrew because I was like, I kind of don't know. I'm either going to go ape on this or I need to pull back. and I could feel her trying to pull me out, kind of like making a little conversation. And finally she's like, Dad, you're just so angry. I was like, I am. I'm mad. And I don't want to talk to you right now because I'm angry and I don't want to say something I'm going to regret. And you could see her kind of go, whoa. I didn't know I could do that. But there's points where I'm like, you need to know you can do that.

50:16Elliott Cherry:You can affect people. You know, like, look, I'm okay. I'm going to be okay. You're not like, the scaffolding is fine. But like... I just booked six counseling sessions, but I'm going to get there. That's a little bit of urine you're going to smell. That's normal for a dad. But I think that's the juggle I feel like sometimes with the kids is going, they need to be able to see. I need to be the sort of centurion that stays my place and they can orient themselves to me in some ways, family-wise. Lord knows I'm not trying to be God, but in some ways you're sort of – You can't do that. Yeah, like you can't, but hey, I'm assailable.

50:51Dave Barnes:Right, right. Like Proverbs says words, the tongue are like sword thrusts. and you're like, okay, use that metaphor to be like, like wounds can heal, but like that hurt.

51:02Elliott Cherry:Yeah. I have a song actually called Sticks and Stones. We're going to break into that really quick.

51:09Jon McLaughlin:But you're right.

51:10Elliott Cherry:But I think to y 'all's point about, you know, with y 'all's daughters, with my son and now with Xana too, I've never done this. Right. And so I think it's that weird thing, kind of like you just said, John, of trying to juggle that thing of like, what is appropriate? How can I also be true to who I am? So I'm not over-dadding. And that didn't hurt my feelings. What do you mean? I'm fine. But at the same time, not being immature. Not sort of like being pithy or keeping a record of wrongs or whatever. And yesterday was just a – I did not – I did okay. I was actually – by the end of the day, I was like, I could have really botched that and I didn't.

51:48Dave Barnes:But I could – Well, there's a humbling, and I think if we'll let it as dads in dadville, uh it this is this feels like the the death you know it's like if he who loses his wife will find it i'm like okay this is part of what it looks like to die to self in parenting for me and i think it's true for everybody is the moments where i see them acting out of acting a fool being disrespectful being harsh being me like we're trying to find the line which is all part the discernment of dadding, which is really hard. But then you start to go, on some levels, not entirely, but on some levels, I've taught you that.

52:31Dave Barnes:Oh, yeah. You learned that from me. Absolutely. So what I'm watching right now is your version of the sin that I gave you. Yeah. And I've modeled for you. So there's moments where they start arguing with me or with each other, and they're getting so defensive and so accusatory. I'm like, this is probably what they have witnessed mom and I do. or like how I'm even arguing back with them. I'm like, they're just doing what I do to them.

52:55Elliott Cherry:I know. And so now I'm like, if I will let it humble me, I can actually now then reconnect,

53:01Dave Barnes:re-engage with them through repentance and mean it. Like not only is this my first time, so I don't know what I'm doing, but two, what you just did, I do it too. So I'm really sorry that I've modeled that for you. And that, I would say that dying to self, it just kills the whole like now you have to honor me and respect me because I'm your dad but that doesn't mean I don't have flaws too and you're wounded by me like you impact me and that hurt but I've done that to you too so I can actually like lead with humility with them if I'll let their their things humble me but that that probably is to me is the pride that doesn't want to die the most which is no no no this is all you and I'm gonna I was like wait wait

53:45Elliott Cherry:well you know what I was thinking this yesterday and this is just a confession which is great this is a great place to have a confession um but i can get this thing where it's like i am the rock you will break on right so you push as much as you want totally some of that energy is great because i think as a dad you want to be that like hey you're safe i'll i will guard the edges of where you can't go right totally another part of that is just like you're not gonna beat you're not gonna win at this like i win i'm the dad yeah and i think i was really having to check that yesterday's that energy you know of going again sometimes this is great it gives them safety it gives them guardrails sometimes though it's just pure male machismo and like yeah ape chest beating yeah you know that's

54:30Jon McLaughlin:like you know well there last year there was a a date it was march 31st 2025 where i what had you've given up for Lent that year. Finally. Parenting wealth.

54:47Jon McLaughlin:Where I, what you're describing was like a moment for me. I was like, I have to, I have to shift this, I'm the rock that you will break. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think it's still, I think I'm still, we're still the rocks that they can break on if we're gonna. Or stand on. Or stand on. You don't have to break. Right. Stop hitting it so well. But it was like, how I was framing that was like the words that just came out of my mouth that's the rock now and I will what I just said will happen you will not and the thing is and I mean God bless my girls this is a good thing I don't want to you know parent this out of them I think they are diamonds like they will not break these girls will not break and it's going to serve them well in the future.

55:41Dave Barnes:What happened with that rock? Did it stay? Was your clarion moment on March 31st last year of like, I can't do that anymore? Or like, no, no, I know. How did that play out?

55:53Jon McLaughlin:It was just like, I felt like my role in the moments that are tense, where there's pushback from the girls and Amy is up there. and I'm like, I am the dumb machismo male rock that comes in and is like, it's over. Daddy's here. Daddy's here. To the point where I'm like, you know, it's 7.30. I don't care what the rest of my life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I will stay in this doorframe and I will keep you in your room till 7.30 a.m. Let's go. and my daughters are like let's go bro let's party i'll climb out this window yeah let's go and and so i'm like just that framing of it is not working right so the being the rock that they can break or stand on or whatever it just looks different yeah and just the other day there was a couple mornings ago there was some you know we were i was supposed to take one one of my daughters to Starbucks and I had told her that I would take her.

57:06Jon McLaughlin:And we, Amy was gone and she had my keys. And so I don't have keys to my car. I literally can't take you to Starbucks. We can't go. And this is not, you know, this is not a huge thing, but I'm like,

57:18Dave Barnes:you have the Uber app. Can't you?

57:19Jon McLaughlin:Yeah. Right. Once I realized that this is not happening, I'm like, okay, I got to tell her she's not going to be happy. I told her she was not happy, but I didn't, I wasn't like, hey, I wasn't like, this is not a big deal. This is, you know, you have, we've provided. Yeah, I didn't go all macro on her. And she like went into her room for about three minutes and she was upset. And then she came out and she was totally fine. Totally back. So part of me was like, maybe I am parenting these moments that my daughters could be emotionally processing whatever given situation. They're working it out. But I'm like trying to puppet them through all these situations because I want them to handle it the way that some actor in some movie would.

58:14Jon McLaughlin:She went upstairs and did a bunch of shrooms.

58:14Dave Barnes:But it was. She worked through it. It was shroom based. She microdosed for like three minutes. And then she was great. Pick your battles.

58:24Elliott Cherry:She was like, Dad, the ghost of Babe Ruth was so comforting to me. and I saw a son and a lot of care bears. The mermaid on the Starbucks cup came to visit me.

58:35Dave Barnes:So I'm good, yeah.

58:38Elliott Cherry:It's a tricky, it's definitely demanding different things this season. I mean, that's a dumb thing to admit, but I think I'm just so much more illuminated to my insufficiencies and it's really pulling things out of me that haven't. I mean, if we've had this said once on Dadville, it's probably been a hundred times, but the first whatever, eight, nine years is you're physically tired in the back half. You're emotionally tired. And I definitely feel the fatigue of constantly jockeying around some new engagement emotionally that I am not equipped for.

59:10Dave Barnes:I would say that, though, you asked how I'm doing, what's going on, because we're still in both phases. Yes. Our 11 and 13-year-old we have relationships with now that are way different. It's like we're watching late-night movies together and we're doing fun things with him and talking about deeper things with him. That's so great. But then we still have three, five, and seven where I'm like, we're so physically tired anyway. And then the emotional, I'm like, that's how we feel.

59:41Jon McLaughlin:The other day at a soccer game, our daughters, Elliot and my daughters, play in the same soccer team.

59:48Dave Barnes:This is a fantastic story, but I'm so embarrassed by it. so i'm on the bleachers sitting there with amy it's indoor soccer that context indoor soccer

1:00:00Jon McLaughlin:was this now where were you this is that boost yeah yeah and uh elliot comes in with his gang of children my gaggle i was solo solo dad that weekend so that's right i had three my son was

1:00:12Dave Barnes:at a basketball game but i had three little girls and my oldest daughter was playing in the game

1:00:15Jon McLaughlin:yeah so esther elliot's oldest daughter is right in front of us just on the other side of the net because she's playing goalie. She's a great goalie. We're chatting. The game's going on. We're chatting. All of a sudden, Esther, mid-game, turns and is like, Dad, they're on the treadmills over there. Oh, my gosh. I mean, mid-game. She's blocking shots. She's parenting. I love this so much. And Elliot is over here just laughing with the dads. and the great thing is the whole crowd of all the parents this is all happening within like 12 square feet

1:00:56Dave Barnes:it was she literally said dad you have to go get them off they can't play on the treadmills while she's in the game and ask Elliot if he knew that his little girls were on the treadmills zero clue

1:01:10Elliott Cherry:but you were crushing that conversation oh man I think I led someone to the Lord yes

1:01:14Dave Barnes:I think they I want you to know Are you mad that my girls want to work out and get in shape?

1:01:19Elliott Cherry:You are not alone. And if I was there, that exact same thing would have happened. And Ben would have been the one?

1:01:25Dave Barnes:Or who would have turned around?

1:01:26Elliott Cherry:No, it would have been, like, let's say that Ben is, you know, playing in a game. And I'm like, Andy's going for the weekend. You're hamming it up, right. Yeah, and I'm like, everybody's having a great time. We're laughing. And then meanwhile, some parent I don't know walks up because Sam is crying because he cut his hand trying to do bench press on him. And I'm like, gosh, I'm so sorry. I think your daughter's also stuck in the treadmill with her hair. And I'm like, what?

1:01:48Dave Barnes:But the parent that came up to you to tell you, was your daughter in the game? Yeah, that's where this one gets really.

1:01:55Elliott Cherry:That is so many levels to that. I mean, birth orders. It was such a perfect moment. You know what else, too? It would be hysterical to ask Esther, what are you thinking about your dad at that moment? Because it could be really gracious and sweet. He's having a great, you know, Dad loves talking to people. Well, it's just the kids got away. It could also be, well, I just knew this weekend was going to be.

1:02:20Dave Barnes:Like in therapy in 20 years, she's going, well, I knew no one was ever going to take care of me.

1:02:25Jon McLaughlin:Yeah.

1:02:26Dave Barnes:I knew that no one was actually looking after me. I mean, the fact that she is in the middle of the game. Yeah, yeah. I'm not allowed to have needs. I can't even. I have to take care of my team and the goal. That is unbelievable. I mean, it was. Yeah, she honestly, she said it with a smile, and we laughed about it in the van, And I told her, you know, don't ever disrespect me like that.

1:02:48Elliott Cherry:I'm the rock. You will break on, daughter. Do you understand?

1:02:52Dave Barnes:Like, don't you ever. Don't you dare. Don't you dare.

1:02:57Elliott Cherry:Who are the people? How did the people you were talking to?

1:03:00Dave Barnes:It was Barrett Ward. Oh, that's in a safe space. Yeah. It was hilarious. And it was very, very. It was great. I mean, yeah. Everyone was laughing. Except me.

1:03:11Elliott Cherry:There is something about me, and I would imagine you're like this, too. And I think Annie just now at 20 years is really starting to come.

1:03:18Dave Barnes:Also, just FYI, Britta was out of town. She does not know about that story.

1:03:22Elliott Cherry:Well, everyone that's here, please, if you know Britta. Jason, cut this.

1:03:27Dave Barnes:We'll keep it in the episode, but cut this.

1:03:28Elliott Cherry:Let's only put out that story. Let's ditch the rest of the podcast. Britta Cherry.

1:03:33Dave Barnes:Britta, the weekend went great. I can't believe she doesn't know.

1:03:37Elliott Cherry:Yeah, well. But I just know for me, and again, this is something that Annie has had to, she really doesn't understand. and she didn't have to she's very different human being than i am but when i am engaged in a conversation that i'm really enjoying with people that i enjoy to pull me out of it oh is like pulling neo out of the matrix it is like you have to jerk it out of the back of my head i enter into

1:04:02Dave Barnes:a reality it is so hard for me bro especially one that yeah you're you're really enjoying yes yeah Yeah, yeah. And this is a little bit of the, like, I'm dad of five. I'm more tired than all you. We're like, can I get a little bit of this? Yeah. Can I have a, like, give me, like, I have not had an adult conversation, you know. Yeah. And, again, my life is full of good conversations with people I meet with. So I'm not that, you know, devoid of it. But there is, like, haven't I earned this a little bit? Yeah. Don't I get a few minutes? Can I just yuck it up with the homies? Yeah, yeah. Can I have this?

1:04:37Dave Barnes:Like, I don't ever get to, you know. God, that is unbelievable. And the treadmills weren't even plugged in. Yeah, they're fine. They're fine. Esther, you don't even know.

1:04:47Jon McLaughlin:Esther, you think you're so observant? You didn't even see the plug wasn't plugged in.

1:04:52Elliott Cherry:Also, Esther, three goals. Do your job. Maybe we'd be winning if you weren't worried about your sisters. Jeez. I mean, just get it. Oh, eyes on your little sisters don't have eyes on the ball. As you're saying that, she's just looking at you waiting for you to start crying. And then you start crying. She's like, there it is. There we go. Come on.

1:05:12Dave Barnes:While she was telling me, she was saving goals with her other hand.

1:05:16Elliott Cherry:It was very impressive. I'm amazed she didn't tell Britta. That's actually pretty remarkable. I think Britta probably knows. Yeah. Britta knew physically. She was somewhere and just stood and was like, I'm sorry. Hold on one second.

1:05:28Jon McLaughlin:Yeah, Elliot. Britta unplugged the treadmill with her mind.

1:05:32Elliott Cherry:She called Boost at a time. hey the cherry film would you just do me a favor just ahead of time just unplug everything that's anything that's plugged in also if you have some extra extra insulin just around i gave it up for

1:05:45Dave Barnes:lint yeah ellie's trying to do this no insulin for lint thing um yeah that i yeah the the wife doesn't and that's true for me for her too like what does she need and what is like her what is her version of that like you asking me to do this is the equivalent of yeah and that but that's that's real and i'm actually preaching about that in our sermon series you know dave um love it what's

1:06:09Jon McLaughlin:you're in the middle of the longest sermon series that we've ever done what are you doing we just

1:06:14Dave Barnes:started two weeks ago we started john oh nice um we're gonna do john for nine months uh which i'm

1:06:19Elliott Cherry:excited about we're doing romans and i don't we may never get out you're gonna do it for eight years yeah it's like chad when he said romans i was like yes but also i could have grandchildren

1:06:28Dave Barnes:at the end of this but we're caught the thread we're pulling through john is the misunderstood Messiah, how like everywhere in John, people just don't get him and what he's doing. And, and, but it really is not only is it comforting to know no one's ever been more misunderstood than Jesus. So he gets you, but what does he do when he's misunderstood? And so even like that, like I can get mad at my wife when she's like, you just don't, I don't, you don't get what I need. It's like, that's actually not what Jesus does when he's misunderstood. and but with my kids too like you don't you have no clue what this is costing me and how much i actually want to pay the cost to love you and sacrifice for you you not getting it actually isn't going to stop me from continuing to do it for you so it actually has been comforting in that realm of pondering how does jesus do this for us and so yeah i can get i can get mad or i can get humbled and be okay not being understood.

1:07:28Jon McLaughlin:Do you ever think that like early in Jesus' ministry... Talking about his existence before time began? Like that early? I think it's in Matthew when he's in his hometown and he's starting to preach and everybody's excited. And then like eight verses later they're about to throw him off a cliff.

1:07:55Dave Barnes:That happens in John 6. That's actually right after the feeding of the 5 ,000. But it's early on in his public ministry.

1:08:02Jon McLaughlin:They want to make him king. Yeah. And then he basically touches on this is not going to be like... The kingdom you want. The kingdom you want. Like you're not going to be exalted. You're not better than everyone else. Right. Starts doing that. Do you ever think the, for lack of a better term, the success of Christianity comes at the cost of slightly watering it down? Oh, man.

1:08:39Dave Barnes:We're not recording, right? I stopped. Yeah, yeah, good. man I mean I would love to throw that stone at all the people who I think have done that and not really have to maybe look at that myself right

1:08:56Elliott Cherry:well you talk about the cost of being a pastor and a preacher that is one thing y 'all have to that you carry for sure

1:09:02Dave Barnes:I go to a couple different places on that it's a great question I think that Jesus said like the world hated me, they're going to hate you too. That's a real thing. And there's a sense of, if I actually believe that Jesus is the most beautiful human who's ever existed, he's the God-man, he is compelling. I actually really want to express him in a way that draws people in. And so how do you, like there's a famous parable that he tells, the parable of the wedding feast, where the king throws a wedding feast and no one comes, none of the guests come. And then he's like, well, go outside and invite other people to come.

1:09:44Dave Barnes:And no one comes. They're like, too busy. We have things going on. We don't wanna come. And then finally, the king says to his servants, like, go out to the highways and byways and find the homeless. And he says, and compel them to come in. And like, that's the heart of the king is like to compel people to come into this kingdom. Like, it's not, it is compelling. If you understood the real Jesus, it's so compelling. So I try to preach that way. and I know that Jesus said, but if they hated me, they're gonna hate you too. And so like, I don't know. I think what that means for me is, is I'm gonna try with all the faithfulness I've got to preach and explain the real Jesus and let Jesus do what he wants with the crowds or not.

1:10:32Dave Barnes:And because, you know, the Sermon on the Mount was preached to thousands and the feeding of the 5 ,000 was probably more like 20 ,000 with the women and children. And so he was not opposed to large crowds. But he also was like, but I'm not going to meet your expectation of what you have of me either. And that's going to make some of you want to kill me and some of you want to scatter. And so I don't know. There's both things in there. I think it's a great question. I wasn't prepared to talk about that today so that we can go there because I'm thinking a lot about that.

1:11:02Elliott Cherry:Okay, last question. And then we'll release you to the wolves unless John had anything else. To the world that hates me. Yeah.

1:11:08Jon McLaughlin:Your words. Jesus, actually. Touche. Well, I want to be clear. That is a macro thought. There's nothing specific to you. And we have talked about this before. I love it when you have such a gift of speaking. And our daughter even said to us one Sunday when you were preaching, she leaned over to Amy and was like, Why do I, I think she said, why can I can just pay attention more when he's preaching? Oh, what a gift. Jesus.

1:11:43Dave Barnes:So there's nothing specific to you. This is a macro question. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, that's great.

1:11:49Elliott Cherry:What a kind, that's unbelievable. That's unbelievable. That's such a gift. Yeah. So like when, here's the last question, just thinking about the series. What are the things that are messing with you the most as you're preparing it? Like, you know, like what are the things? you find yourself. I'm always curious with a pastor, you know, as you're thinking through a series, because, you know, even the little bit of teaching I do in like our Sunday school, Micah and I, I'm like a 20th into what y 'all have to do all the time. Yeah. You think you're that close? Okay. One 10. That's fair pushback, but you know what I mean?

1:12:28Elliott Cherry:Like I'm having to do that juggling of like, sure. I'm not just trying to tell you stuff. Right. How does, what do I think about what does God, you know, but like, What is, in John, as you're thinking about it,

1:12:36Dave Barnes:what are the things that are ringing your bell? So the Misunderstood Messiah thread came from a book I was reading on John by Michael Card, who's a former songwriter and kind of turned biblical scholar. He's got a commentary on each gospel. He calls John the gospel of wisdom, but in his intro, where I kind of stole the phrase and the thread of Misunderstood Messiah, but I started pulling on that thread. He just talks about it in like a paragraph, but I started pulling on the thread when thinking about this series. And I went back and reread John a couple of times through that lens. And Jesus is misunderstood in every, in every story, someone doesn't get it.

1:13:15Dave Barnes:And then the people who like you think should get it really don't get it. And so I found, I found that fascinating one. Like, isn't that interesting that everywhere Jesus turns in John, someone's confused and asking the wrong question. and then to think about a Jesus who came to a world where he knew that would be the response yeah and he still came how lonely that would be how lonely it is to be misunderstood that's why I talked about the intro sermon like it is such a lonely place to be misunderstood and it didn't stop Jesus from coming to be misunderstood so much so that he ended up all alone like hanging on naked on cross beams like no one has ever been more lonely than Jesus and no one has ever been more misunderstood than Jesus.

1:13:57Dave Barnes:And so pulling on that thread, there's places where then you watch from that lens things he chooses to do or not do that have kind of blown my mind in the rereading of it. That's great. One, I'll give two examples. One is, and we just preached on accident and preached the sermon, but this, I wish I was able to, just the preaching calendar didn't work out that way. But on the wedding at Cana, he turns water to wine. The amount of wine he brings, first of all, is if anyone brought the amount of wine that Jesus brought to that party, we would all think we'd be probably an alcoholic. Wow. He brought like 974 bottles of wine.

1:14:32Dave Barnes:Jesus. That's how much. So you're like, well, that's a little like, you know. And it's the best wine. He saves the best for last. It's a really well-known story. So much symbolism going on in it. Here's what struck me about that. It says in parentheses in that story, because they hand the wine, the best wine, to the master of ceremonies, and then the bridegroom is who actually gets all the credit for it, because it would have been his party that his family had paid for. Jeez. Jesus takes no credit for it and it says the party did not know that Jesus had done this but the servants who filled up the water tanks did like the water jars that were 40 gallons a piece and so you go wait wait he did this whole thing this big shebang and the only people who knew that he did it were these servants over on the side like that's him and he didn't even want to do it yeah and he's like telling his mom like it's not my hour yet and he still did it and she just ignores him yeah yeah

1:15:19Elliott Cherry:she's like do what he says I love that like honestly not trying to be funny That is a really interesting little peek into how human he really was. He's like, hey, mom. She's like, no, Jesus, get in there and do this. She's like, I guess we're speeding this up.

1:15:35Dave Barnes:Well, which most scholars would say, the clue on that is that it probably means that Joseph had died by then. Mary had grown to rely on Jesus as the firstborn. When I have a problem, which means it probably was one of Mary's relatives that was having the wedding, so she's feeling partially responsible. and like she would have gone to her husband, but she couldn't. She goes to Jesus. Jesus needs you to take care of something. I just found it fascinating. Like he would do something that magnificent and then give all, literally not even take the credit for it. But I love that those little like servants, his first public sign was for a group of like six or seven, nobody servants.

1:16:08Dave Barnes:And it's like, but they knew that to me was the trajectory of that,

1:16:12Elliott Cherry:right?

1:16:12Dave Barnes:That's all he really all in there. It's all in there. So that's one, another one that's fascinating, which we'll get into in, you know, a couple of years when we get to it in this series, but his dearest friends are Mary and Martha and Lazarus. He spends more time at their home and with that family than anybody across the Gospels. And you see it at the funeral of Lazarus, but it says that word came to him. He was across the Jordan, and word comes to him that his friend Lazarus is sick and is dying, and it says in there, and Jesus decided to wait three days. You go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on.

1:16:47Dave Barnes:One of your best friends is sick, And you're going to go, we're going to wait on this one. Now, he had a plan, and his glory would be manifested and all that. But you go, how painful was that for him to know what his decision of waiting was going to do to these sisters that he loved, Mary and Martha? And they show it when he gets there. If you had been here, my brother wouldn't have died. And he weeps with him. But I'm like, to make a decision in real time to go, I'm going to make this choice to stay here while Lazarus is dying. And I know what this is going to cost me, and actually know what people are going to think of.

1:17:20Dave Barnes:I know what narrative people are going to write about me when I do this, but this is actually what I know I need to do. I'm just like the internal life of Jesus who knows he was misunderstood everywhere and knows like, I'm going to have to go greet these sisters and they're not going to get it. They're not going to get it. I'm going to do this anyway. And I just find like those little, to get a little window into his psyche as much as possible through that thread has been really fascinating. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, I'm finding it interesting. which speaks to the book we were talking about before we started recording this guy, like he was so spirit led at every moment that was like, all right, what do I need?

1:17:56Dave Barnes:Like, what am I doing right now? And that's the, and you'll, if you do that, you will be remarkably misunderstood. Yeah. You know? So yeah, I'm excited for it and, um, love to have you, you know, we have four services every Sunday, Dave, um, plenty of opportunity. You can just pop in the back for a few minutes. So John does,

1:18:14Elliott Cherry:I may pretend that I'm looking at the paintings and then slip in. Is Dave out there? What's he doing? He's doing the QR codes.

1:18:21Dave Barnes:I really find it an honor to be annual Pastor Dadville. I just love – I haven't gotten a clergy check or anything yet.

1:18:30Elliott Cherry:It's up there. That's where you get it.

1:18:32Dave Barnes:Treasures in Heaven?

1:18:33Elliott Cherry:Yeah, no upstairs. We have a thing in the attic.

1:18:35Dave Barnes:It's more like a crawl space. It's where you hold our treas. Tell me what guests I should be excited about coming this season. Who we got coming? Oh, Jerry.

1:18:45Elliott Cherry:So many that are just coming down the pipeline.

1:18:48Jon McLaughlin:Look, this is going to be an unsatisfying answer, but we have a potential guest that is not nailed down, but it's close. John is going to explode.

1:18:58Dave Barnes:Give me a little hint. Give me a little hint. What sphere? Entertainer? Theologian? Athlete. Athlete? No. Is it an athlete that I would be?

1:19:11Elliott Cherry:Babe Ruth's guest. We are not sure we can do that.

1:19:16Jon McLaughlin:A lot of people are saying that he's passed. but you believe in a life to come. So I'm, I'm really excited. An athlete. Yeah. It's not me. It's not exactly you. It's very you adjacent. I mean, he's basically kind of like on your trajectory. Yeah.

1:19:30Elliott Cherry:He's a man with a face and arms and legs. So that you definitely have in common. So, um, we love having you on. Yeah.

1:19:39Dave Barnes:Thank you for coming on. Happy, happy dad billing.

1:19:48Jon McLaughlin:Redfield.

1:19:54Elliott Cherry:There's nothing like the American Express Platinum card. Find out your welcome offer after you apply, which could be as high as 175 ,000 points. Learn more and find out your offer at americanexpress.com slash explore dash platinum. Terms apply. If you're a podcast host, listen up, this one's for you. My name is Allie Jackson. I'm the host of Finding Mr. Height, a dating and relationship podcast that I've been doing for four years now, sharing my positive and practical approach to dating that's built on

1:20:20Dave Barnes:my own life experience. And I wanted to share another experience that I've had, my secret behind monetizing my show.

1:20:26Elliott Cherry:It's called Red Circle. And I was just telling my colleague about how much I love their platform. With Red Circle, not only am I getting a seamless

1:20:33Dave Barnes:hosting experience, but I also love the support I receive in ad sales. It's not just typical ad sales either. It's targeted opportunities based on my show and my life. And the platform is super simple.

1:20:43Elliott Cherry:You just set your preferences and Red Circle matches you with sponsors that align with your show. You can vet every opportunity and their platform gives you great analytics. More recently too, my Red Circle team has brought me opportunities outside of my podcast on social media to really augment the podcast partnerships, bring them full circle. I just can't recommend them enough. If you want to give it a try, go to redcircle.com to get your free trial. That's redcircle.com for a free trial.