Tyler Staton: The Dad Tax and Other Holy Subtractions

0:05Hi, I'm Dave Barnes and I'm Jon McLaughlin and welcome to Dadville. Dadville is a podcast where we talk about life, love and the pursuit of awesome dadding. It's funny thoughts and deep talks. So please enjoy your time here in Dadville and enjoy this episode with Tyler Staton.

0:28Good energy in. Good energy out.

0:37Storm. Zero sugar, 200 milligrams of caffeine, and immunity support. Storm. Energy for life. I feel like this is too good. I just want everyone to know, as Tyler logged on, he was in the very corner of the room hiding behind what looked like a fiddle leaf fig. Which made John and I immediately wonder if he was either one hiding, if he was trying to escape the camera, or he could make a dramatic entrance. He coaxed him out. Which would have been just as good. And here he is. And we're going to take this one step at a time. Yeah. Don't, you know. And if you want to go back behind the fiddle fig for a little bit, you can.

1:11Yeah. Listen, you guys can throw as much shade as you want, but the reality is John is in a ghost story-like setting, shining a flashlight on his face in the dark. can i can i tell you that i told john i was struggling because john is already really handsome like he's a good-looking guy but he just got a new camera and when he lost i'm not used to this new camera so when he logged on i was like jeez man it's like doing a photo i have been shamed by dave and our jason our producer i feel strong i've been camera shamed that's dave has a Fancy new camera. Mine is ancient from 2021. They keep telling me I got to buy a new camera.

1:532021 is a long time in the world of technology. Where are you guys in the world? Spiritually or physically? Oh, right. Yeah, Nashville. Either way, the answer is Nashville. No, I assumed you were physically in Nashville because we're Christians. Thank you. Hey. You're out in the trenches. We're on the home base. that's right yeah you guys you're on the front lines are you in portland right now nashville i just want you to know that i know internally that you mean franklin no no no no no no i guess we should say yeah we're not at the home base we're not we're slightly in the trenches we're like we're at the the welcome center of the trenches i guess yeah that's cool that uh that's exactly where do you guys live in nashville we're like 12 south so so kind of by belmont and all that stuff do you know do you know nashville very well have you been here much i'm from there are you really what yeah i was born there i was born in antioch and then i lived in smyrna and then my family moved to brentwood i attended brentwood middle school and then i went to high school in tampa florida my family moved to florida But my folks now live in Charleston, South Carolina.

3:09I did not know that. Yeah, my in-laws live in Franklin, which is why I'm joking around about it. Holy cow. Yes. So we're like... I have an aunt and grandma who are in Nashville. Golly, Moses, you're just one of us. You're here quite often. Every Christmas, baby. I'm probably going to show up there at some point. Gosh. Yeah. And you guys, y 'all are in Portland, right? You're still there. And you're physically there right now. I am. I'm in my office right now in Portland. When you guys moved to Florida, was it a total dream come true? Because I grew up in Indiana, and I always wanted to move to Florida.

3:54You know, I mean, it was a bummer in that, like, no one's hoping to change schools in high school. but it was I mean we suddenly had a swimming pool because every house in South Florida does and I went swimming every single day for three years You're the only person you knew that did that because everybody else was so used to pools Yeah We had a little pool basketball goal and me and my older brother both injured each other playing one on one pool basketball every single day after school. The best. I love that. Did you move, you said three years, did you move after your freshman year? Yeah. So I went to Brentwood High School.

4:43Jeez, I did not know any of this. The Nashville area for a year and then moved. So the well-worn path of Nashville, Tampa, New York, Portland that we've just seen so many people do before. Oh, yeah. Exactly. The Amaze Walk. Yeah. Did you say the Amaze Walk? The Amaze Walk. The American Amaze Walk. Are we going to talk about fatherhood? No. This is kind of a geolocational podcast. It's a bait and switch. I love that. We get people in who want parenting advice, and we just talk about fatherhood. I love the bands. Do you know what's funny that's unbelievably consistent with the geo? I think when we had John Markle, and the first time he asked that same question, do you remember that, John?

5:23He was like, do we talk about being a dad at some point? And we were like, oh, shoot, that's our bad. I was just going to say, like, your timing is incredibly appropriate. It was Father's Day yesterday. here we go here we go here we go okay so let's do tyler let's do your intro which i've got prepped here cool um this is where it starts to get really professional so buckle up okay so today on dadville we've got tyler staten with us and tyler is the lead pastor of bridgetown church in portland origan before that he helped start a church in brooklyn which means he spent a good chunk of his life helping people navigate faith in two places that probably don't make most people's list of easy places to pastor he's also the author of several books including praying like monks living like fools after amen and a number of others explore prayer longing and what it looks like to follow god in a world that's constantly pulling our attention somewhere else what we appreciate about tyler's and he talks about spiritual formation in a way that really feels honest and practical he's not just writing about prayer he's someone who's built a life around it whether that's quiet contemplative prayer in the morning journaling running or finding ways to pay attention to god in the middle of normal life he's also a husband a dad to three boys that right three boys Well, that's full tilt.

6:30A self-described New Yorker living in the Pacific Northwest, and apparently a guy who can talk equally passionately about prayer and Mediterranean food. Tyler, we're glad you're here. You guys really did some research. Don't listen. See, we lure you in thinking we don't know what we're doing, and then we're about to wow you with these questions. So the thing I wanted to ask, speaking of your 15-year-old swimming self in Tampa, what would you say, like, if you could travel back in time to 15-year-old Tyler and you told him everything you're doing, would he be like, yeah, that feels like, that's kind of, yeah, that makes sense.

7:02Would he be like, I'm sorry, what? Like, was this the goal? I think when I was in middle school, and I wrote about this in my book, Praying Like Monks, Living Like Fools, but I had a profound encounter with God through prayer. And it was at Brentwood Middle School in Nashville. I prayed around. So I write this story in my book, but it's actually a guy you probably know of named John Tyson. He was my youth pastor in middle school. Now we're only 10 years apart, but if you're 13 or 23. Yeah, yeah, that's a big jump. And now it's like friendship. But so he said to me at the beginning of the summer between seventh and eighth grade, What do you think God would do in your life if you walked a circle around your middle school every day this summer and prayed for everyone by name in your uncle?

8:01Good night. And I said, I have no idea. And he just said, why don't you find that out? And then it was like an in-passing interaction in the hallway at the church. And it really stuck in my mind. And I will spare the full story because I've written a lot about what happened and why I was intrigued to do it and everything. But I encountered Jesus that summer primarily just through the love of God. Like I discovered, number one, I actually believe God enjoys my company. And I really enjoy his, both of which were surprising to me. Two, I feel most myself when I'm with him alone. And then over the course of the next year, what unfolded is probably best just summarized as like a revival in a public middle school.

9:04I started a Christian outreach ministry in that middle school. By the end of the year, it was the largest extracurricular club in the school. started a math classroom and in the school's theater got to see approximately 10 percent of my eighth grade class come to faith in jesus 6 38 meetings i was teaching the bible and i had no idea what i was doing looking back like no idea there was definitely heresy involved god was at work and it was it was just a work of of prayer so that that profoundly changed my life I did not think, nor did I ever want to be a preacher. I didn't. I think if you had talked to me at 15 and said, what are you doing?

9:51It would have been like, I think I'm probably living in a village in sub-Saharan Africa, trying to love and serve the poor. Wow. That was sort of my dream for my life. all the way up to, I went to Bible college because I was just fascinated by the person of Jesus. And I discovered that you could actually get a degree in that. And so I was like, well, I want a degree in Jesus. And so I went to Bible college and literally at Bible college discovered like, whoa, a lot of people have different views on this ancient collection of scrolls. and there's a you know this is and some of these ideas are pretty wild because my whole interaction had just been i go to a church and my family believes in jesus that's a sincere thing with each member of my family and i have fallen in love with jesus by just piecing through the gospels myself.

10:54And so I had no ambitions to lead a church to teach the Bible or anything like that. But I did want to radically follow Jesus for the rest of my life. Because that was the other important thing I didn't mention is when I was in that summer going into eighth grade, I came to the firm, experienced belief that the most wild and fun adventures I could possibly have in my life all have Jesus at the center of them. And so I think a lot of people are compelled by Jesus in this sacrificial way for me. It was just like, I'm a glutton for joy, and I think he has it. And so I just want to go on adventures with Jesus.

11:44So, yeah. So, no, I didn't think, I think if you told me I was doing that, I'd be like, what? books sermons so when did that start I mean you say when you were a teenager you would have expected that you would be in sub-Saharan Africa was that modeled for you or one of your parents missionaries my dad had a really profound I remember a time I was in elementary school I don't know what grade my dad went on a short term mission trip to a nation called Kyrgyzstan with our church in Southeast Asia, and it changed him. And I remember him being different. And he ended up going back to that place ten times, and we would host many nationals from that country.

12:38The guy who ended up leading the church in the entire country, my dad led to Christ on that first trip. Wow. That guy, I talked with him and his wife on Zoom a week ago. And so I just, I saw, I think, and my dad took me along on one of those trips. I think my perspective on the world broadened. And I think I discovered and believe today, like if just any person came up to me and said, I want to encounter the life of God. Where should I go and what should I do? I would say, I would read the Gospels and get close to the poor. And I think those are places that God has promised we can find them. Yeah, that's a great one.

13:37Anyway, that was my experience. So, you know, it's interesting that you say that. And here we are, Dadville. Watch us tie this in. Watch me do this. You having that experience. Thank you. The dramatic. It reminds me of this Pepsi I'm drinking. It's so refreshing and bubbly. So you having that experience as a teenager, there's a guy named Jamie Winship that we really love who's been on. I don't know if you know Jamie, but he talks a lot about this. If you listen to him talk or podcast, he's been on. But just this idea that, you know, how young we are when God can really give us, like, identities.

14:21You know, and we see that with David, obviously, in the Old Testament. But he makes this really compelling case that I think we forget sort of as Christian culture that, you know, really, at a really young age, God can do these dramatic things in us. Because I think it's easy for me to think, like, oh, you know, you kind of get to college. You start really having those interactions, and then you sort of feel this calling for whatever it is. But hearing him talk about that has really challenged me with my kids. But I think with you and how you parented, what is it like with your kids knowing that was your experience with God?

14:52Has that sort of affected how you think about them and their walk and their ages? Definitely. I think also a unique difference is that I feel very conscious of. I'm the pastor of a church and my dad worked at a car dealership so I feel like I had freedom Are you saying you both sell stuff? Hey! I had freedom to explore and discover Jesus and it not be like my dad's thing yeah yeah right and so i think this is what i think about right now like my my boys are nine eight and four and i started doing we call it discipleship but i take in second grade so i do this with two of them now uh one friday a month we go to the same coffee shop and I get a coffee and they get whatever kind of pastry they want, which I dad tax to 10%.

16:04It's appropriate. And then I am trying to build secure attachment to both me and Jesus at a pace that is healthy and suitable for who they are and their unique development. and so that has led me to explore lots of different hands-on type of prayer practices with them like right now me and my seven or my eight-year-old are each night we pray together and he has one prayer where he tells God how he feels right then. You know, like, how are you? I'm just trying to get him to be able to emotionally dial in, like, I feel embarrassed about something that happened today, or I feel really sad that I struck out in the baseball game, or I feel, like, so excited because we're going on vacation next week or whatever.

17:06So tell God how you feel because he cares. And once and he already knows, but it's helpful. You and him can talk about it if you're able to know also. And then two, one thing you want for someone else, because I'm just trying to get him to see like there's other people around me all the time who also are feeling things. And each time he prays one of those, I drop one jelly bean in this mason jar. and when the mason jar gets entirely full, he and I are watching a movie together and eating all of the jelly beans. So there's stuff like that. It's not... That's so great. I'm just trying to meet him where he is.

17:49And so I think I do have a belief that my kids

17:59can know and follow hard after Jesus at a young age. I give him my my nine-year-old he's he decided to kind of he had like a formal conversion experience that he came to entirely on his own. And he was baptized. And what we always talk about my my book The Familiar Stranger about the Holy Spirit is dedicated to him. And it says for Hank, carry the fire. if you've ever read uh the road by cormac mccarthy that's what he says to the son all the time the son will ask him like dad does he carry the fire and it means like is that person safe because you and i carry the fire but i use that to remind hank of the holy spirit and so i just say like hey man you carry the fire so you're you're the dangerous one so if your friends are all making fun of someone and you love them instead.

18:56Like you are the one who is dangerously carrying something that can't be put out, not the one who's embarrassed. And so he and I talk about that a lot and I've seen him grow a lot in confidence and what it means to live the kingdom of God. And so I guess those are just examples to say, yeah, I have an expectation that they can have formative faith experiences in elementary school. Yeah, that's great. I love the prayer and them in that and them always be okay you know i want to give permission for them to be people who are they're they're both gonna have some crazy experiences they're gonna rebel in different ways and i want them to have freedom to do that and figure out who they are right i mean that's what i told him i was like that's not how hide and seek works oh my gosh and your spanish is getting so good so much better wow you know john the devil podcast doesn't just happen.

19:55People think it does. There's so many things going on behind the Saints. Oh my gosh. It's like, there's lots of rigmarole back there. Oh yes. You know, and it's stuff I never would have thought of like logos, ads, uploads, scheduling, clips, et cetera. It can feel overwhelming, especially if you're just on your own. Yep. You know, and thank goodness we're not alone because we have Shopify. That's right. Shopify is basically your built-in business partner, Dave. I tell you that all the time. It powers millions of businesses from huge brands like Dadville to people just getting started. And it puts everything in one place.

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21:46This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.

21:54Why do you think that is so hard for us to do? Like, just have conversational prayer? Like, what is it about? And I don't know if this is like a Western thing or if it's an American thing, whatever. But like, why is that? I had a pretty revolutionary thing happen in my prayer life probably five, six, seven years ago where my dad was a pastor. I grew up in the church. I've always been a believer. But I just didn't pray like that. I mean, I did not pray like that. And I had years of praying. But it was so radical to me to be like, oh, I can just talk to God like he's my therapist was mind-blowing to me.

22:30Why do you think that's so hard for us to do? That you would have to teach a kid to be like, just tell them how you feel. or for a 40-year-old at the time to do that? I think it is mostly a combination of formality and boredom. So I would say on the formality side, most people learn to pray, dear God, and that is not how you talk to anyone else. If you asked me a question, I was like, dear Dave, and then began to respond. I'm like, why is this guy writing a verbal letter each time he speaks to me? And so, I don't know, like the jelly bean guy, Simon, the way I teach him to pray is he starts all his prayers.

23:19Hey, Jesus, this is me, Simon. And I'm just trying to get him to not talk different to God than he talks to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's so great that he can, at the end of the day, like kind of metabolize all that's going on. I mean, in my experience with my daughters, it all comes to the surface at the end of the day. There's for whatever reason. And I think some people would say this is a form of like separation anxiety kind of transitioning into the nighttime. but they they everything comes to the surface at the end of the day so to put that in a prayer and to even be able to hear himself say out loud how he feels about something it's got to it's got to be so kind of cathartic you know i hope so yeah i hope so i mean i'm look i'm definitely messing some of this up and i guess i'll find out in about a decade which portion.

24:24But I think that there's this formality thing. I think the vast majority of people to varying degrees are telling God what they think God wants to hear. Not what is true. Or maybe even how they wish that they felt about something. But not truly how they feel. Yeah, I think most people you know Adam and Eve hide parts of themselves from God in the brush or they put on fig leaves for one another. I think most people are dressing up in fig leaves when they talk to God to some degree and are putting on a best self. And then I think there's just boredom. I think to be entirely honest, most people relate to prayer very similar to how someone would relate to painting if you only had one color.

25:22Most people get locked into one type of prayer or practice prayer or expression of prayer. And they think this is the whole color palette of prayer. And so if the only way I know to pray is seated with my hands clasped, listing off things that I think God should probably be giving more attention to, then my creativity in prayer is going to be greatly limited. if the only way I know to pray is the reciting of biblical psalms or the prayers of the saints. So I think we have this robust, diverse range of prayer practices forged in different traditions, passed out through 2 ,000 years of church history.

26:08And I think that the creative aspect of prayer is very underutilized in the modern Western church. So what is contemplative prayer? I think contemplative prayer is the, you know, I would say that is the terminology from one tradition for what others might call beholding prayer or silent prayer. but it involves sitting naked and unashamed in the presence of God, delighting in his love, and allowing him to attune the wants and desires of my inner life. So what is, some people think silence in the presence of God is entirely about revelation. like is God going to speak and I'm going to be like whoa I'm supposed to do X or I'm going to say no to this or I should start uh praying at night with my daughter this way or whatever you know and I would say that can happen but that's the exception not the rule the the primary practice is doing it's the antithesis of what I was saying a minute ago but is coming naked and unashamed in the presence of God.

27:39So let's just use me, for example. To be very, very crass, the commodity that I trade in is words. The thing people want from me the most, they think, is words. Words to inspire, words to instruct, words to whatever. And I spend a lot of time coming up with words. And that is my vocation, but everyone does that. Everyone socially brings something to someone else. So when I sit with my hands open, silent in the presence of God, with no words, I am practicing bringing nothing to God and being enough in His presence. I'm practicing being in the garden with him in the beginning. Here at this part of the serpent's deception.

28:46And then also, I was talking about wants and desires. That's my terminology. You call it something different. But like Psalm 23, so many people know by heart, the Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want. So throughout church history, there's been this idea of abandonment or holy indifference passed down. Most of us aren't entirely free agents for the Spirit of God to direct us. We have attachments that we're unaware of. God, you can do whatever you want with my life so long as my salary stays the same and I keep living in this home. Or you can direct me however you want today, although I do have a set agenda that is totally immovable.

29:32So can you work within that? and then we also all have wants like i wake up every day thinking about what i want for lunch today or whatever you know just these surface level desires we have cravings in our flesh they're getting vying for our attention all the time and if i'm preoccupied by like it's friday should we go to the movies tonight should we do it you know then i'm spending a lot of time ruminating on pleasuring my flesh, which isn't a negative. I love going to the movies, but I'm spending a lot of time ruminating on myself and to get to a place of self-forgetfulness or holy and death before God, where suddenly I can realize, you know what I'm really longing for is I feel disconnected from my wife.

30:23and I really, I want to be able to connect with her and feel loved by her. And just to come to that awareness, that's like a desire within me. And deeper than that desire even is, you know what I really want? Is I want to know the love of God through my wife. Like we vowed to one another at first. And what should I do with that then? Should I go and immediately tell her? No, probably not. What I should probably do is be aware like, oh, I have all this raging sea of desire within me and all of it points to God. But I satiate that desire all the time with wants, like basic surface level cravings.

31:11How can the good shepherd lead me by still waters, green pastures? how can I go through the valley of the shadow of death and not be ruined by it, but know his rod and staff guiding me through suffering and pain in my life? Only when I get still before God long enough to quiet the voices of my wants, to get in touch with the desire that is being brought to the surface of the spirit of God. And then it's as if like the snow globe that is my inner life comes to settle. and now I'm ready to open the scripture and read because I'm a still pond and so the rock that's dropped in is going to ripple everywhere but if I'm a river moving in a direction then you're barely going to see ripples if you drop the same rock does this make sense?