When is it OK to Skip Church? with Elliott Cherry

7:33Elliott Cherry:Well, that's where God loves us American soccer fans because the timing of – Right. Well, that's not true. That was a dumb thing to say. It's Sunday mornings almost all year. Yeah, because you got it. Yeah. But if you make Champions League, it's Saturday mornings because you play those on Wednesdays. So they get you. So it actually, if you have a good year, you're like, I'm going to be a better Christian this year. Because now I. I'm not missing church.

7:57Dave Barnes:But the championship just happened this past weekend too. It was PSG. No, that was a whole other.

8:03Elliott Cherry:That was kind of a nobody cares about the tournament. Oh, hot take. Wow. Hot take. I mean, they do. If you won, you care. But it was whatever. It's a debacle. So I want to get back. So you clock again. But is there sort of a – there has to be a passport.

8:19Dave Barnes:Yeah. This is total like insider baseball that no one cares about. I mean, other than the Lord.

8:24Elliott Cherry:Oh, like summer stats.

8:25Dave Barnes:Well, stats in general. The Lord knows them. But the average American churchgoer goes to church 1.7 times per month. So less than twice per month, the average American churchgoer. and and that's true in church cities bible belt cities like that's that's just that is it's it's just the way things are so the the reality is that no one expects to see other people

8:50Elliott Cherry:every time yeah no okay so so so i want to i want to talk about this um you know god this could get deep real fast and very insider baseball but i'm so curious about this. I mean, you as a pastor, that's, that's what I'm asking from the, from the, from that position, from that role, from that, you know, gifting and, and all those things. You know, if you're looking at a congregant, you're saying you should be here every Sunday, right? We would want you to be here. I should as a shame, but you know, in other words, someone joins a church and they go, we plan on coming here. Your goal is that you're there, you're there every Sunday, you know i feel like i don't know if it's our culture if it's our time in the world if it's where we are as a christian church in america or whatever that's all that stuff whatever but like i just feel like that's not like if i asked amazing people who absolutely believe this what are your expectations for church attendance as a member so again this is not right i mean like these are people who've joined a church they knew exactly what they're doing right i just feel like they're like you know if i'm there 70 of the time that's it now now that's not counting travel that's not counting like right things that are you know happening in your life right but like you have the ability to get up on a Sunday and you don't know yeah you know it feels like you're saying it feels like people are going to church less well they're just i just feel like the expectations have changed now i have extremely myopic view of this my dad was a pastor yeah you know, so, but I mean, when I grew up, it was like, and granted he's, he's a pastor, but that was true of the church.

10:30Elliott Cherry:We went to like, everybody always came. It was not, I can't think of many, it's like, where are they this weekend? And if they didn't come, you knew that was the family who just kind of didn't come all the time. Sure. What were their names?

10:40Dave Barnes:Well, God knows. And, uh, but the Stevenson's if you're out there. I think so. There's a couple layers. There's a couple of like dynamics to answer the question or to like speak to it. One is, is that like in my best moments, uh, um, pastorally, when I write sermons and we plan services, I'm thinking about people, like actual people, not like theoretical situations where I'm like, oh, I so, I so want these people to hear these words that I feel like are, you know, mine to give them for them. That's right. So there is a sadness when I don't see them like, oh, this, like, I want this for you. I so like, the Lord has like grilled this amazing steak and I'm just the caterer that's like bringing it to you.

11:25Dave Barnes:I want you to, I want you to enjoy this food. That is real. And then there's a reality too of like, well, yeah, my selfishness, my ego, what does it mean when they don't come? Like all that's at play. And we could talk about that at length. I'm happy to. What I was going to get to is maybe like a, maybe the state we're in or like the cultural moment that i'm in too this is not just like members or congregants or attenders is you would like if the only time someone is feeding let's like just take like diet or health if the only time you eat a healthy meal is for like breakfast on sundays then you look at them and go like hey yeah you're probably not doing well yeah so my concern is not less like have you been at church on sunday but like how are you doing how like yeah what is the rest of your i don't think that like you're doing great if the only time you feed on something is one hour a week anyway so like the the idea like well if you're not at church then you must not be doing well it's like well no i don't my view of what it means to be a christian is actually way bigger than just a sunday morning so like if you weren't here who cares in some ways like that how are you doing how's how's your life how's your soul that's my that's my real care which is why we do small groups but even then it's like that's not even uh i want to know like how is your life doing and i hope this sunday feast feeds you but I don't actually think this is everything yeah so I'm not yeah right you know it's like absolutely this is not the best metric for how you're doing anyway right right right right but there is a like you know the Lord builds in weekly Sabbath and weekly rest because we need it every week so there is like I hope I hope this for you and then you can layer on the I'm sure y 'all feel it too where you're like man I I poured my soul into this record these songs this tour and that show in Cleveland or that show sorry Cleveland listeners or wherever was was less attended than I wanted it to be.

13:12Dave Barnes:There's an ego in that, but you're also like, man, I want people to hear these songs. Yeah, for sure. And so it's both things. Yeah, yeah. You know, I think that's real.

13:19Elliott Cherry:Yeah. I, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think sometimes I get sad because I even feel that, like this weekend. Yeah. I mean, granted, it was a really late night, Saturday night, but, you know, me teaching made me be there, which I'm glad it did. Right. But there's a very real world that I could have seen myself waking up and being like, I'm just, I'm toast. Yeah. rather not go and i get sad at that i'm like i wish and i we love where we go i mean it's right it is it is a huge blessing in our life and we're very connected there and um you know so it's not

13:52Dave Barnes:that john didn't say anything when you were just sharing about that let's start over at your ego

13:57Elliott Cherry:i let people talk i'm a listener not on sunday but you know what i mean so it's not it's we have a huge affinity for it so it's not even that we're like drudgery it's like sometimes hard force

14:08Jon McLaughlin:whatever you're saying that the thought that if you're honest with yourself you would not have gone at all on sunday oh i don't know but i just you're saying that makes you sad that you might

14:19Elliott Cherry:not have gone it just makes me sad that that's so much of an option now that there's not sort of a no this is just what we do we get up and we go and i mean but then you got to fight all the legalism and all that stuff god loves you no matter what that's not at all i'm trying to say i just think for me i'm like growing up the way we did i was like yeah we're just gonna get up and go to church all the time. Like, and granted, you know, I was there every time the doors are open. Cause you know what dad did, but, um, that's not like he went to jail, but, um, in some ways he did religion wise, um, in the service.

14:48Dave Barnes:But I also think it's important that like, you know, an early church is such a, like, I mean, it is the early church and we have a lot to learn from it. It's also, I think so many people today are trying to like, we finally recaptured the early church and we finally doing it the way that no one's done it for thousands of years. I'm not saying that, but if you go back to the early church and think about, how they would have thought about their weekly rhythm. You're like, they were gathering together in most cities in a home, like in Ephesus, and going like, we're sharing, these are our people. We're reading the apostles' letters.

15:18Dave Barnes:We're remembering Jesus' teaching. We're reading Old Testament Psalms. We're doing these things together because this is our, we're so hungry and thirsty in the world we're in. This is lifeblood to us. That's the only reason. I don't want someone for any other reason to come to church. You want to be here. And I don't think, so if you're there because you think you have to be, then we're doing something wrong. Would you look at John too when you say that? Not just at me. When you're there, instead of Wimbledon, it's right. For any other reason.

15:48Jon McLaughlin:I'm curious, what is the... To the extent that we know, what did the early church look like from an actual

16:01Dave Barnes:schedule standpoint? We could do a little church history. So in the Jewish tradition, they're in Babylon in captivity, away from their homeland. There is no temple. There are no yearly festivals. There are no like weekly sacrifices. There's none of that going on because they're away from their temple. So in Babylon is what begins, when the Babylonian captivity is over, not all the Jews return back to Israel. And that's what begins what's known as the diaspora. Jews are scattered all throughout. at the time was the beginnings of the early Greek empire, Alexander the Great and all that, and then what would become the Roman empire.

16:38Dave Barnes:But that's where synagogues come from, which is like, well, we don't have a temple. We're not even near the temple, so we can't go do sacrifices, but we can gather in a synagogue in Babylon or in Ephesus or in Syria or somewhere that is not our Mecca, our Jerusalem. And we can gather weekly on the Sabbath, which is Saturday for them, and they would gather with songs and readings and a local religious leader who would lead them through a weekly worship service. And so then literally when Paul, post-Jesus Paul conversion on the road to Damascus, he then when he goes and plants churches in all these cities, he goes to synagogues and in towns that don't have synagogues, he goes to people's homes.

17:22Dave Barnes:But synagogues become like, oh, well, we were worshiping like Yahweh. now we believe Yahweh is incarnate and there's this resurrection that has happened. We are now a people of Christ, a Christian, but we're built on Jewish roots. This is very like N.T. Wright. Like we are, the church is the new Israel. Like we are, we're going to continue these same traditions. Like let's gather in the synagogue weekly for readings and songs and hymns and prayer and fellowship, meals. and so that that's where our like weekly rhythm of church comes from is like this is what they were doing from day one which came from like jewish tradition which is like when we are in our town and we are the only people that we know that believe these same things let's gather weekly on our sabbath day to worship and for regular reading of the word

18:12Elliott Cherry:listen john yeah i just i have to get this off my chest do it yes it's august now but it's going to get chilly and this feels like a time august feels like the time yeah hit reset before autumn rush bottom rush and honestly i can't think of a better place to start than my closet dave

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20:38Elliott Cherry:That to me, by the way that was amazing that was really amazing you did that um not all of it is true but it's it was close um no i think the thing that i've felt so compelled by as i've gotten older and you said so well there you know i i think the gathering what a fascinating thing not that this is a religion where we all go to our homes and we do our religion at home and at your work and you just kind of stay in these little individual lives, spiritual lives that don't touch. It is very much the opposite. We are part of a thing. That is us at our best is part of the thing, not alone. It is very much clear biblically that God is like, hey, to do this is to do it together.

21:24Elliott Cherry:You are a church. You're not like a person. You're a church. And I think that's where, if I was talking to John before, I was like, I was so excited you're coming on, which felt different for me. And, um, no, but just, I was thinking about like, you know, one of the things I did want to just pick your brain on is for anybody that was listening that would call themselves a Christian, especially a pastor's take on this, but like doesn't go or struggles going to church. I think my, what I'm so blessed by and what I would encourage those people is the, the kind of one of the whole points of what we believe is to be together.

22:04Elliott Cherry:And I understand the hurt that the church has caused a lot of people, and that's a whole other conversation. But I think for it not to be this is what you have to do, and this is like you're a good Christian or you're doing your job, you're clocking in and clocking out. But one of the points of it is to be together. And what a crazy thing when you actually, hearing you explain it, it was one of the first times in my 47 years of living. I was like, that's actually a pretty crazy thought that, that you would believe something that says, Hey, we all got to get together and believe it. And not, it's like, Hey, go and do your thing.

22:40Elliott Cherry:Now you believe it. That's great. Like go live your life and do whatever. But it's like, no, the whole and then we'll see in a few days and then we'll see again in a few days. Just to be into the point, the breaking bread of it is maybe the most compelling point to me because it's not just to get together, say some, say, say some things and leave. It's like, no, let's just be together. Let's commune and tell jokes and have fun. Let the kids run around the background. But just to share this together is a really beautiful, powerful thought.

23:04Dave Barnes:Yeah. I just, I don't know. We talk about this often in liturgy, in corporate worship. And this is true for the pastor. But this is true for Johnny and Sally, a tender and member and congregate too. There's so many weeks where like a corporate confession, where like we're all confessing the same thing or singing the same thing or listening to the same thing. There's so many weeks where it's like, I don't even know if I believe this, but hearing a room sing this with me, I like, Joseph Patton, I think our worship directors who has said it this way, if not, I stole it from someone else. This isn't for me, is sometimes I have to sing from my heart and sometimes I need the room to sing to my heart.

23:48Dave Barnes:Wow, that's beautiful. Because I don't, off on my own, it's been said before that your own your own thought life is like a bad neighborhood don't go there alone where it's like that that's what like Monday through Saturday I'm living with all of my insanity of the narratives I believe what I believe about myself my identity who God is what all this is for I believe insane things so actually corporate worship is like a realignment with reality like this is who God is this is who I am and I if I don't have this every week I will go insane yeah well and

24:22Elliott Cherry:And the fact that Satan and sin's whole point is to always pull us apart. Totally. But get you off to yourself. Yeah, totally. And then I can just hammer you. A hundred percent. Because you have no way to get out of your own head. You can't. There's nobody that you turn left and they're like, man, I had a hard week too. Right. I still believe this. Right. Yes. Yes.

24:38Dave Barnes:And something that one of our elders has said before is like, when we do corporate confession of sin, like this is what I, you know, I've done these things and Lord, we repent for these things. he's like it actually it makes it makes me it takes such a like it's such a gift because it makes me realize like my sin is not that special like everybody's wrestling with the same thing I'm not that unique like yeah I I believed lies this week too that you did too like oh I'm not it's so ego deflating to be like oh like we all we all we're all wrestling with the same stuff we're all just doing the best we can and if I don't have that's what I want for people to come every week we don't really have the room for them every week So we need some of y 'all to stay 1.7 members per week.

25:21Dave Barnes:Sorry about all this. A little braggy. Getting a little braggy. Well, we have a small building working on that. And a huge preacher.

25:27Elliott Cherry:One small building, a huge preacher. Problems were going to happen.

25:36Elliott Cherry:Jerry Maguire, two, the preaching years. Show me the tithing money. Show me the tithing money.

25:49Dave Barnes:can you do that in Joel Osteen's voice? No. Okay. God won't let me. But like, that's actually like, I know you because you're a human. You have believed in saying things this week. You have lived in, in narratives and in places between your own ears that are killing you. Yeah. Right. And like, I want you like to, here's some oxygen, like come back for this. So that, that actually is the, like, in my best moments when it's not about me, which is rare, but there are, there is, there is a, that's why I still do this is because I actually do care about that.

26:25Elliott Cherry:You know, my dad always said, which I think is really beautiful idea. He's like, you know, the church is the hospital. It's where we come to get bandaged and taken care of and, you know, like healthy. And then we go back into our world and do the things, but you come back in, you get bandaged up, you get totally cared for, you get fed, then you get, you know, and when you think of it that way, it's much more compelling and i want to be clear like for this to state i mean you know we had a i don't know it's probably like a couple of months ago we just had a morning where annie and i were like let's just stay home this morning on sunday and it was like one of the most it was my favorite sunday a long time because it was just like it was intentional and i'm not even saying it was super spiritual but it was just like it was a wonderful morning of like having a slow morning being with the kids no screens on we just spent time together and i was like so don't don't hear me saying that's a bad idea but but i think like i do grieve that i wish my heart was more dedicated to that and it wasn't such a struggle some sundays to be like yeah here we go in in a funny way it's actually kids actually helps us which i know sounds crazy but i'm like i just i i it's hard looking at your kids when they're like because they get that glint like what time is it and you're like yeah oh it's like 8 25 like we're not going to church and you're like well we're and they're like oh my god please say we don't have to go to church or whatever you know you could just walk down and well walking for us it's a sabbath thing and so we only drive for work

27:47Jon McLaughlin:that's so much work i mean parking is well you just said you can't fit any more people that's why we don't come there as much as much so let's talk about the monday through saturday of look at you look at you john that's so good i gave you a moment to jump on that you didn't that's good Because the reason why we wanted to have you on specifically was we wanted to talk about being a dad and a husband at this point in our lives. Because the three of us are in... Dave is about to hit his 20-year anniversary. I'm about to hit mine next April. This is my 15th anniversary this year.

28:24Dave Barnes:Okay.

28:25Jon McLaughlin:So we're about in the same area of life. Yep. What would you say are your... Do you have any sort of daily kind of mantra thoughts that keep you? Let's just start off with being a husband. Oh, man. Like maritally. Yeah. Like the two of you have unknown amounts of kids. What's the number we're up to now? Do you even know the number at this point?

28:58Dave Barnes:I don't. Yeah. Okay. Somewhere around five. We have five kids that are great, ages 2 to 12. And one that you really struggle with. That'd be a great way to intro that. Yeah, that would be. What if that was how I was, yeah.

29:14Jon McLaughlin:You and Britta have a great marriage. You guys are one of those couples that, from the outside looking at it, it's obvious. Like, you guys really love each other. We do. 15 years in with five kids. Yeah. I mean, it can be tough, I'm sure, to even have the margin for the marriage to be a priority. Totally.

29:35Dave Barnes:What does that look like? That's a great question. And, you know, fresh, we're going on a little staycation next week. And part of it was driven by like, it's so easy and natural and understandable to like, with five kids, 15 years in, ages of our kids to just like, not like function as roommates where we don't ever talk. necessarily but like end of the day into the night it's so easy like let's just get in bed and fall asleep to a show without ever connecting or like that's just it's just that's normal and at any

30:07Jon McLaughlin:given moment the number of things that need to happen logistically in your life just to make you to get so and so someplace or even at the end of the night where you're saying like everybody's all the kids are asleep or whatever there's probably some email that needs to be responded to to make

30:24Elliott Cherry:sure that can I just for clarity say like Oklahoma Phantom of the Opera show or is that I just want for clarity what are we talking about like a tv show oh that's what we watch like what is it you know are you doing musicals we only watch Passion of the Christ oh every that's how we end our day

30:42Dave Barnes:keep it fresh yeah it's only chosen chosen is not intense enough oh okay respect um no uh Actually, we just finished a show, our kind of most recent binge show that we've been hooked on a show recently until the show. It's Paradise on Hulu. Have you all seen that? With Sterling Brown. Is that his name? We just started watching that. Oh, my gosh. It is so good. It's so good. Have you finished it? No. I can't say anything. We're like five episodes. The first episode, you're like, whoa. This is amazing. Anyway, it's great. um i think that something that is actually i was watching something recently where a guy was saying no one tells you when you get married start having kids how much you're gonna like miss your partner because it's just like yeah that's just something about parenthood they don't tell you you know it's like parenthood's hard enough raising kids are enough no one tells you how easy it is just to

31:35Elliott Cherry:become like oh i miss you it's crazy to think about crazy you live in the same house right you

31:39Dave Barnes:sleep in the same bed and you're like yeah yeah I would say we're in a season right now where um like realities that have been right now we still for the most part have like little people little problems our oldest is 12 there's some you know adolescent things that are coming up that are not easy but it's it's not comparatively we've got great kids in a in a mostly really joyful and peaceful house with our kids in our marriage and Britt and I still really love each other I think that that thing though of like how do we carve out and make time and space for each other is always a challenge. It's partially why we're doing like the little staycation and going to Coldplay and doing some nights out.

32:20Dave Barnes:I think that something that like – Is that a new Christian man? Yeah, yeah. They're small. They're out. Yeah, yeah. They're – Oh, is it the five spot? Acoustic tour. Five spot. Yeah, I love that. No, I think that something that like if you're dating out there, like you're newlyweds, like there's little things that like you see in your partner right now that are like i guess we're dealing 15 years in with like things we've always been dealing with but now we're like like oh those don't those don't just go away things that now like oh that's really hurtful when i do that to you and they're not new things it's like oh we're 15 years in now and we're still dealing with that that takes a lot of work and i think the the you said what's the mantra what we both have to do and I do this with all my premarital couples too.

33:04Dave Barnes:And I try to do it at every wedding I do is talk about this reality. The amount of forgiveness you're going to have to practice for the other. For things that you think like, well, like that'll just, we'll grow into that. Or that'll like, we'll get better at that. It's like, I'm still hurting Britta in ways that I've hurt her our entire relationship. And now it hurts worse because I'm still doing it. And like, but there's a new intimacy on the other side of fresh forgiveness. that you just can't know six months in or even five years in, where you're like, oh, there is, I'm going to choose to forgive you.

33:37Dave Barnes:You're going to choose to forgive me. And here's what forgiveness is. I'm going to treat you like you owe me nothing and I will pay the cost of it. When both parties are doing that 15 years in, 20 years in, there is a like, you can't, you can't microwave that. That's a, that's a reality of like, oh, this may be something that you, you and I don't ever get better at. these dynamics, these ways I hurt you and I really don't want to hurt you. Like the whole framework of intent versus impact, I was actually talking about this earlier today. I didn't mean to do that to you, but the other person's still hurt by you, intent versus impact.

34:13Dave Barnes:That's a great framework and you have to even own your impact. That's a hard thing to do too. Even though the intent was good. Even though the intent was good. Here's what is the dark side of that, the underbelly of that. That's a great mantra. It's really true. I use that defense all the time with Britta and here's what I'm having to come to terms with. what happens if my intentions aren't great either like yeah i would love to defend and justify i'm so sorry that hurt you and i really don't want to hurt you but i really was trying to help what if i was actually just being selfish and like now i've got to repent for my not just my impact but my intentions yeah like that is a that's hard that feels like dying to self that feels like oh this is this is not necessarily where i thought we'd be but i thought i'd be better at this by now sort of thing but like we're we're in it yeah we still really love each other but it is like 15 years you you start to go like oh this is what it means to like love someone for the long haul is like we're practicing forgiveness in ways and nothing macro or major it's like these little

35:11Elliott Cherry:little little you know that i feel like what what i have learned in droves in the last like couple years of my marriage that annie does much more naturally than i do is forgiving without having to say you forgave them totally like in other words like minor infractions right that happen where you know every day uh uh 50 to 100 times with both of us right where where i think i used to have this really strong feeling of like we need each of those we need to put an ebenezer down of forgiveness and hey babe just a little earlier i don't know if you meant to god really hit me weird or you know or hey like you know you kind of snapped me whatever and it was like I finally a couple of years ago was like, why do I do that?

35:54Elliott Cherry:It sort of became this sort of moment for me with the Lord of like, I think I don't need to do that. And I think he was like, I don't think you do either. You just forgive him and you move on. And it made my life infinitely better. Because Annie does that naturally. She just doesn't take on water weight like I do with that kind of stuff.

36:13Dave Barnes:And I'm not going to bring this up later and tell you about. Yeah.

36:16Elliott Cherry:And really having to get better. it is a discipline I have had to have so much discipline. I've got a new book coming out.

36:26Dave Barnes:Book of Proverbs says it's the glory of man to overlook an offense. There you go. That's it. That's a great. You should write that down. Well, early on in Amy and my relationship, and I mean, up until maybe just a few years ago,

36:41Jon McLaughlin:I would say I did the same thing or a similar thing where like we would have some kind of a, there'd be some kind of infraction 99.9 % of the time it was like amy saying you did something that i didn't like and then as soon as the words left her mouth she's fine and i would go all like existential and the motivation behind it was always us in in 20 years 40 years i'm like I had such a fear of the couples that you would look at who just, whatever they used to have is gone.

37:20Elliott Cherry:Sitting at Shoney's, dead quiet, eating there, just staring out the window together. And you're like, yes.

37:27Jon McLaughlin:I mean, you laugh at that example, but that was actually like in our dating life, we would be out to dinner and there would be like maybe a 30 second lull. and I'm like, is it crumbling already? And Amy's like, well, we're just eating. I was taking a drink, John. I was in the bathroom. I know, but you didn't text me? I was so, I had such a razor focus on like, if we steer, if like the ship ticks to the right two degrees, yeah, it still looks like the same course. in 10 years we're miles off where we wanted to be so i i think there's it's like it's there's this weird sort of balance of i don't think that's the worst mindset to have to some degree absolutely yes but at the same time my wife had all the security in the world right every time was like babe we don't need to yeah like go back to like page one and like read our story and make sure that we're good like we're fine yeah you know yeah it's it's really good i would just know

38:37Elliott Cherry:you said it really well ellie i would notice that it was like i was kind of i had to i felt exactly like you did jodd i was so worried that like we need to be clear clear keep it clear keep it clean and clear like there's nobody's taking on things which is funny because annie doesn't do that anyway i mean like she's almost incapable of it she's kind of like probably do her like she she will harbor without knowing she is right and then she'll kind of be like hey and she'll later clock I guess that couple days ago I did get mad about that where I'm like every little ding, oh my god, ding and it barely touches the hull of the boat and I'm like, we're sinking!

39:10Elliott Cherry:But what I think, so it was both that intent, which is a good intent, like hey let's keep it clean and clear, but I just really learned so much from watching her navigate through our marriage without ever feeling like I did which was this like, hey, sorry can we just sit down for a second? She's like, good night man like and i think what i underestimated was being doing life with someone in that proximity there's tons of shrapnel every day all the time right and so so for years i'd be like this is not supposed to be like this right and i think finally a couple years ago it was like no i think it is and i just need to get better at going like hey this is just the way this goes you'll know when it's time to stop and go hey that was either i'm sorry right that was i was way too mean or whatever or look too good which happens sometimes without sure you want to be careful struggle and i'm like i shouldn't set you out in the spirit of lust uh end of the world with these lulu lemon shorts i have trader joe's with that i just want popcorn guys just let me buy the bag of popcorn get out

40:15Dave Barnes:there but um you out in the spirit of lust you know what i mean yeah i shouldn't do that to you To you.

40:21Elliott Cherry:To you. It's a burden for her. All our wives are like, we're fine. No, no. I've never thought of you that way ever. We're good. I think of River Runs Through It. No. Any character, honestly, Dave. Any character at that point. But you know what I'm saying. I think for me, it changed our marriage because I have a new discipline now where if something, because I'm more sensitive than she is by a lot, that she'll go, hey, and I'm like, oh, that, don't love that. but the great thing about being married this long, as y 'all know, is I know she loves me. Yeah. And that really matters. Really matters.

40:57Elliott Cherry:Because I can, I can gauge, weigh that against, why would she say something that feels mean? Well, maybe because she's mad and she's had a hard day and you're a safe place for her to let that rip for a second. So true.

41:09Dave Barnes:You know, and that was really tough. So I didn't, a sermon at our church recently that I did not preach a guest preacher, a friend of mine from my pastor group that I'm in, he's got a Scottish accent. so it sounded a lot better when he said it. He was preaching about patience. We're preaching the fruit of the spirit this summer, John, in case you didn't know. He was preaching about patience. Were you all there that Sunday when my Scottish buddy preached? Were you there? Yeah. It was the Wimbledon qualifiers. It was pre-Wimbledon. It was a warm-up matches. He preached about patience. Literally, the Greek word in the New Testament is a word that means a short fuse.

41:50Dave Barnes:And so actually having a long fuse, like the opposite is having a short fuse, long fuse. And so he said, here are the two paths of patience that we typically fall into that when we practice inpatients, we either blow up or we give up. And both of them are the antithesis, like biblical patients. So either the fuse is too short and you erupt on somebody or like, I'm tired of doing this. I'm just going to give up on this. Who cares? Yeah. So the challenge kind of for everybody listening was like, where do you fall? like where is practicing patience like long suffering with someone hard do you tend to blow up or give up wow and Britt and I were talking about it and it was like we both probably default into the blow up but what's amazing is that like what you just said about Annie like my wife literally does not have it in her DNA to give up on me like she she is she's in it like she's displayed it with friends and family like that i'm not worried about i i do not like she is all in with me and you kind of believe that a little bit more after 15 years where you're like you're not going anywhere so like we yeah like we can make every molehill a mountain or we can just go like hey i love you i'm really sorry i did that or i'm gonna treat you like you don't even owe me that anymore and that's actually where intimacy is that's not neglectful or apathetic that's actually strength and health that like, yeah, there's shrapnel everywhere.

43:11Dave Barnes:And I'm not going to make us have to deal with every little thing. It's glory of man to overlook an offense. Like I'm, yeah, our love is stronger than this thing. And, but you don't, you can't do that. Lackadaisically that still takes choice after 15 years. And that, I think that's where we are. And, you know, we're entering y 'all are past it right now. Not just 20 years in almost for y 'all, but like with the age of your kids, Like we are entering the phase where our youngest is two and a half where it's like, oh, like being out of diapers, all the kids being in school five days a week. Like those days are coming.

43:45Dave Barnes:Oh, man. Coming out of like the fog of like we've been in diapers for 12 years. Yeah, that's a long time. Where you're just like, oh, that is a real thing. Just the wear and tear of daily life. Not just diapers, but what comes with that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The maintenance. And so the maintenance, it's like, oh, I like Britta, we even like have entertained the like conversation. Not yet of like she got offered a job last year. She was like, I think I might be ready to like go back to work full time. And I'm like, I can't. She decided it wasn't the right season. But like, oh, that day is coming. We're like our whole life isn't just in this war zone at home all the time.

44:24Elliott Cherry:Listen, John.

44:25Jon McLaughlin:Yeah.

44:26Elliott Cherry:I just I have to get this off my chest. Do it. Yes, it's August now, but it's going to get chilly. And this feels like a time. August feels like the time to hit reset before the autumn rush begins. And honestly, I can't think of a better place to start than my closet. Dave, same page.

44:41Jon McLaughlin:That's why I love shopping at Quince. You always do that. Yeah, and here's why. They're all about fewer, better pieces. Made with premium materials, built to last, and designed to become the things that you reach for every day.

44:55Elliott Cherry:Like the ultra soft organic cotton tea. I was hoping you would see them. I wear them all the time. Almost early day. They have the fit and quality you'd expect from a luxury designer brand, John.

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45:58Jon McLaughlin:Exactly. You know what? That's why we upgraded to Bowling Branch. And it's amazing how quickly we notice a difference. Dave, literally overnight. Just to be clear, not me and you, us and our wives. Oh, I don't know. I was sleeping so deep, I didn't know who was in that bed.

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46:37Jon McLaughlin:That's BowlinBranch.com. That's B-O-L-L-A-N-D branch.com slash dadville. Code dadville to unlock. 15 % off. Exclusions apply.

46:50Elliott Cherry:and isn't that wisdom i think for all of us to realize and man if there's a discipline i need to have more of it is realizing that it sees so much of life is seasons seasons and i have to be so careful to make these judgment calls on a season especially those that just are what they are it has nothing to do with you yeah they just you've chose to have babies and babies take this work, you know, or teenagers or this kind of work or, you know, college kids, high school kids, whatever season you're in and not, and I think, man, the wisest and the most admirable couples I know put a really strong hedge around that in their marriage where they're like, look, these seasons and what they bring are not going to affect the truth of what we have and how we are committed to each other.

47:37Elliott Cherry:Totally. As opposed to like, you know, if I'm not careful, I can think like, why is all this great and

47:42Dave Barnes:hard? Yeah, I've got a mentor that says, you're playing the long game one hour at a time.

47:47Jon McLaughlin:Always. I remember telling you that.

47:50Elliott Cherry:Yeah, it's true. That's true.

47:52Jon McLaughlin:I feel like with kids, like that saying, I totally feel that now. Like I feel like such a 50-50 balance right now of like, yeah, we still have, I mean, Liv is about to turn 10. You know, we still have eight more years until she's out of the house. Luca's got, you know, like five and a half more years. so it's like we do have years at the same time i can feel the hours ticking by like crazy i mean it's almost like my interpretation of what that saying is is like the opposite of what it's actually saying because i'm on the other side of it sure sure sure yeah but i'm like it it i can feel both things both things like it's it we have a long time but it is going by so fast you know I feel like you guys are about to get into that phase where then you're in this rhythm where the kids are at school.

48:46Jon McLaughlin:Next thing you know, like.

48:47Dave Barnes:Looking at colleges. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know anyone that's kind of one stage ahead of us where our kids, like y 'all's kids and my kids are. Kind of like preschool, elementary, middle school days that we're all in. I don't know anyone that's graduating kids from high school that doesn't say. Everyone says it went by so fast. Oh, my gosh. Like everyone is saying, and then what it's a gift to me to have elders at our church and people at our church from a generation who are all empty nesters and grandparents where you go, they would say not just like they miss these days. And like when the house is chaotic, like, man, I miss those days.

49:23Dave Barnes:It's good for me to hear that. But also like parenting adult children is the hardest thing they've ever done. Yeah. So I'm like, I also want to hear that. I know. I can't even, I can't even onboard that right now. I don't want to hear that at all. I know it's true but I do I hear storylines where I'm like oh that is so complicated you're you're

49:42Elliott Cherry:like can I just say this out loud something that terrifies me that I have seen a hundred thousand times is people people's kids marry somebody that is wonderful but it just changes the whole dynamic man yeah and i think what scares me so much we've actually never talked about this john something that scares me so much as a dad is that i've just seen and it's not they marry bad people or the wrong people at all right it just introduces a dynamic or a family system from over there right that then just it's like then your kid because and they should and they're gonna go mighty different and they and then it's like and then sometimes they don't like you meet couples like Like, man, we see them all the time.

50:35Elliott Cherry:And they come over every Sunday to swim with all their families. And you're like, oh.

50:39Jon McLaughlin:Or even in that situation, they've married someone amazing. But that person they married is the complete opposite of you. That's right. Which adds like a dad and your daughter marries some guy who's the complete opposite of you.

50:52Dave Barnes:You're like, what is the statement that we just made right now? But this is the indictment on that that I see. We've all seen it. but I think the core of some of that when you see adult family systems that are playing out with kids and grandkids adult children, kids and grandkids and all that the thing that makes or breaks that system being able to like hold it together with all of its beauty or just be kind of miserable for everybody is are the people at the top of that like the matriarch, patriarch, grandparents are they healthy? do they know their security and their identity are they here's a phrase i heard recently the ability do they have the ability to differentiate while staying connected that's it oh my gosh man like and and like the healthiest people that i want to emulate that are in that season that are you know two seasons ahead of us like not just graduating our kids like those kids getting married the ones where i go man you've got it like and you don't even you're not like obsessed with all your in-laws and you don't think they're all the greatest, but it's healthy and it's working is because of the, they are healthy.

52:01Elliott Cherry:Cause let me tell you what you don't want. And this is, this is what's so funny about that is you don't want to run such a tight ship for a cult of personality or cult that your family comes back to you and you have a tight family because of all the wrong reasons. A hundred percent. You know, either you're all agreeing to the same dogma or they're scared of the parental units or like you want it to be a free flowing right i we choose to be together right and i think you're exactly right i mean i feel like that god i mean and what i don't know if y 'all are like this i mean john and amy you're too sweet but i feel like with annie and i what i get so scared of is we got two first children who are extremely opinionated and very strong-willed and i'm just like terrified that our kids are going to bring somebody home and we are just both like, come here, young lady.

52:54Elliott Cherry:If he sits, you know. And already, Annie, and it's thank God for wisdom because we know this. And so we're just like, I mean, Annie, I'll laugh. Probably once every two months, something will happen. And she'll be like, Dave, we have to remember that when our children, you know, like we can't be like this, you know. Because I think giving, being, you said it so well, differentiating, but also staying connected in being who you are, but accommodating and open.

53:21Dave Barnes:We're not going to lose ourself in the midst of all this, but we're also not going to lose you. We have both. I watch it happen, and I'm not emulating it yet. I'm not able to live it out in that way yet, but it's what Britt and I, we so want the future. We've got kids and grandkids that are coming home for Christmas, and they want to move back to the town where we are because they all want to be around us, and we want all those things, but it's like the demand for it, the like it Bonhoeffer talks about it in Christian community in in his book on community where he basically says the moment you bring an expectation of what Christian community should be you kill it that's right so it's like it's same for a little family system too it's like the moment this has to be the way that you demand it to be it will never be the thing yeah and so like I can Ecclesiastes it can be seasons and I'm not my ultimate security and identity is not resting on this I am I am I'm well differentiated enough to know who I am, who the Lord is, who my kids are.

54:16Dave Barnes:They need to leave and cleave, like all this stuff. And now look at us. We can enjoy Thanksgiving. It's great.

54:21Elliott Cherry:No matter who's at the table. But you said it well. And again, John and I talk about this so many times on this podcast, but Stephen James idea of you can only take your kids as far as you've been yourself. And it is a, it is a tenant of my life. And I think that's why when I think of the work I want to do as a dad is knowing and hopefully so. I know this sounds crazy to say now because I'm going to regret it later, but I still believe it. They're going to sit down with me, each of them at numerous points, and say, hey, Dad, can we have a conversation? I'm 20 now. Or I'm dating this guy now, and I've noticed this thing.

54:56Elliott Cherry:Why do you do that? And if I go, how dare you talk to me like that? Or I don't know that about myself, that is a really hard conversation. Whereas if I go, oh, honey, I'm so sorry. yeah that's something i'm really bad at but i know it and thank you for bringing that up and don't ever come in this house again and pay me back or it's gonna be the thing that i thought

55:20Jon McLaughlin:that i did well i know john always that's always my next thought she's like we talk about this piano in the house and you're like what i mean it will be i really do have to like prep myself and and do this as a sort of hypothetical exercise to get me hopefully in the right mindset for this day, this conversation, or these conversations, is like it will be the thing that I thought was safe. I can tell you all the ways that I'm failing. I can tell you those. They know those. It will be the thing that I thought I did well.

55:56Dave Barnes:Yeah, and that's actually maritally too. The arguments that are the most frustrating and painful is when the pain, the impact that I've caused is from something that I actually thought I was doing really well. I'm like, but no, no, no, but I, you can have all the other stuff. Like, yeah, I didn't do that. But I really tried on this one and you're still saying it wasn't enough? Like that cut goes way deeper. So for a kid to come back and go like, yeah, if they tell me, dad, you didn't do these and these and these things, I'm like, well, yeah, yeah, I could have told you that. But they come back and they go, but dad, the thing that you, your entire fatherhood journey swore you would never do.

56:36Dave Barnes:You did. That's the thing that I'm telling you really wounded me. I'm like, well, then.

56:40Elliott Cherry:You know what? I hate, I'm not even your dad anymore.

56:44Dave Barnes:No, but okay. So let me, let me pastor for a minute. Does, does the sufficiency of Jesus cover even that inadequacy? If it doesn't, then none of it is real. Yeah. But if it does, I can stand even in that place and go, tell me more.

57:00Elliott Cherry:Well, and I think that that's, I think what scares me to John's point in that exact thought is, they are going to misremember things. So it may be that you and Amy can sit and go, we have like little iPhone footage of us doing those things. But for whatever reason, she just didn't clock that.

57:19Jon McLaughlin:Or the thing that I think about is like, there was a short season where this was true. But those were like core memories. And then even though that was just this tiny little season of life, that's one of their memories of childhood right you know what and to your point elliot i've thought

57:38Elliott Cherry:about this so much over the last year so much is intent is i think about my kids and i'm like you know what my prayer is more than maybe anything when they think about their childhood is how much money we made no is how what a great thing to say also what job do i have they're like dad we went to all your condominiums that you were building that's the thing you want them to think about um yeah is is that that my spirit with them was i meant the right things whether i achieved those or not and i think that's so much with them i'm like i just pray that when they think of me 20 years from now they go you know he swung and he missed and he was on his phone too much some of the time but i but i know how he feels like yeah and to me i'm like man if i can achieve that if if they can at least just see through all the stuff right that i really mean

58:35Dave Barnes:well that i'm trying to do the right thing i think that speaks so much well and i do a lot of weddings when i hear a daughter or a son at a rehearsal dinner say that about their parents yeah where they go like dad always know i could count on you dad always yeah i'm like you just go So, you know, I'm like, oh, it is possible. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And here's, I'll go like insider baseball, pastor inadequacy, pastor fear. So I'm in a little pastor group from guys all over the country. One of them is, you know, one, he's 10 or 11 years older than me, but he's got adult kids that one of them is a member of our church.

59:15Dave Barnes:One of his daughters is a member of our church. And he tells the story, and this has happened with both of his girls. One went to New York and one came here. And he tells the story of both of them calling home with the churches that they had found, talking about things that their new pastor, I being one of them now, were teaching and sharing and explaining. He's like, Dad, you're never going to believe what Elliot said. He said this thing. Look what he said about Jesus. He's like, I have taught you that your whole life. But for him, the humility for him to go, I'm just glad you're hearing it. And that doesn't mean I was a failure as a dad or a pastor that you're just now hearing it.

59:49Dave Barnes:So I think about that in parenthood things, like not just dad, you never preached on these things, which I'm like, I preach on that every Sunday. You were there 1.7 times a month anyway. You didn't write it. But the idea of like, oh, I so wanted you to know that I tried. I so wanted you to understand this reality of my relationship with you and you, and I thought I was doing it and I, and I didn't quote unquote in your mind. If there's a security in me that would go, but I'm so proud of you for telling me like Like, I'm so, we're so secure. You can even tell me that I'm not going anywhere. Like, I don't, it doesn't, I could even make their pain about me.

1:00:29Dave Barnes:Or I could go, or, hey, I love you. Tell me more about that. Like, it requires a security in me that is beyond myself to have it. That like, humility. A humility, yeah.

1:00:41Jon McLaughlin:It's maybe the one relationship or two relationships for my two daughters where I could do that most easily. Totally. Any other friendship, relationship that I have, I think I'm struggling with the ego and the insecurities and stuff like that. With my relationship with my girls, and I have said on the podcast before, the most impactful thing on my faith has been becoming a dad. because, and I don't, you know, I'd like to get your thoughts as a pastor on this. Maybe I'm making too much of this, but I'm like, this is the biggest gift that God can give human beings is to become a parent. And I mean, I want to be sensitive to those out there who are not parents, don't want to be parents, can't be parents, whatever.

1:01:32Jon McLaughlin:But I'm just saying for my faith, if I look at God through the lens of how I feel about my daughters, it it it takes it takes all the it gives me all the freedom in the world in my in my faith that's

1:01:50Elliott Cherry:how i want to view it you know the thing that really good quickly your point because i just want to say this really quickly the thing that i get scared of though and i've seen this with a lot of friends that that feel that way but then they get an adult kid that sits down and they hit that little spot that you go i didn't even know i had that little spot and i am irate right now because you were accusing me of something the thing that i the thing that it's your point about the blind side that's what i'm like i just i know i can't be ready for that but i think because part of me is like what's your kid how could you like but it's also the human that may be able other than your spouse to make you the most angry because they said yeah my kids make me yeah more angry than any other human on the planet ever.

1:02:38Elliott Cherry:Amy's not even close to what my children have. So I think for me, I'm like, because I've seen that with friends where I'm like, and we've talked about it, where I'm like, isn't it amazing that this little human, that you would literally die for, you would die for them. Without even thinking about it.

1:02:56Jon McLaughlin:We've said this on the podcast, I would choose to die for my wife. With my kids, it's not even a choice.

1:03:03Elliott Cherry:That's right, well said. That's really well said. but but I've just seen so many of my friends and and candidly I mean I think a lot of my friends parents where they sit down like guys our age will go home and go like hey can we just talk and they're like man they got so mad so mad like so offended by something and not and it's not always said well and that has to be said I mean those are nervous hard conversations but I'm just like Lord I'm I know it's going to come and it should come they need to be able to tell me from but just give me humility and give me grace. Okay, here it is though.

1:03:36Dave Barnes:This is mantra. You're asking for mantras. I heard this years ago and I don't like how true it still is for me. This is true with anything but let's just bring it into parenting what we just talked about. The level of irritation reveals the depth of idolatry. Oh, geez Louise. So the angrier you get in response to something, the emotion of rage is bumping up against something that you have made into an ultimate thing. So this is the thing.

1:04:09Elliott Cherry:I think that's the thing that I've seen with friends' parents. Totally. Is they thought, we stuck it. Totally. We nailed the parenting thing. This is who you are. Totally. I am someone who is a great parent.

1:04:22Dave Barnes:My identity is being a great parent to you and I crushed it and now you're coming and telling me I wasn't. So now you're not just telling me I did something wrong, you're telling me I am something wrong. That's right. That's right.

1:04:30Elliott Cherry:I can't handle that. You'll get my rage. And that's such a, it's exactly right. And that's the thing that I have found to be the most consistent is that doesn't seem to ruffle a feather, the feathers of parents who are like, yeah, no, I kind of miss. It's the ones who were kind of like, I feel like we did it. We really did it. We read the books. We did the things. And then those parents, man, they go sideways because it's like.

1:04:55Jon McLaughlin:When this is like, hopefully, you know, my version of this will be gentle and nice, you know, whatever. But I'm on this side of it. But I can see how that could be triggering down there when this happens. Because like on this side of it, my girls are almost 10 and 12. If I could somehow just know that they are going to be fine in life. that they're going to be able to live fulfilling good lives out in the world, it would take away so much of the sting of the day-to-day frustrations and things like that. So imagining that happened. They're out there. They're good. The level of relief that you would feel as a parent, and then however long that lasts, and then for it then to come back and be like, no we're out we're you know it would feel like being pulled back into that anxiety of like wait i thought we were good i thought we did the thing right you know i thought yeah and i think that is

1:06:04Dave Barnes:the thing in the people i get to serve that are older and i meet with a lot of empty nester folks that the parenting adult children that's that's the thing wow they're like wow wait wait wait like in totally different context and with different forms, the early anxiety comes back. Where you're like, we raised, we disciplined, we vacationed, we educated, and then we sent you off. And now you're 35 and I'm still feeling the like, wait, wait, wait. Is this not, are we not settled? Are you not okay? Are we not okay? That thing is real.

1:06:41Elliott Cherry:I wonder if it's anything like, well, this is going to be a weird thing to say, but Stavien, like marriage in that, like something I really struggled with for a few, few years with Annie was differentiation. Like I had a season where I'm not a very codependent guy, but man, I had a season where I was and, um, it was unbelievably helpful. And thankfully it's been like this for a while now where I like, I can do that pretty well. And I do wonder if that's some of what the work will be with our kids as we get older is really having to go, Hey, I have, I have pushed you out and I love when you come back, but we're not attached anymore.

1:07:17Elliott Cherry:So you're going to make decisions that I holistically don't agree with. But that's okay because you can do that. You should be doing that. You should be doing that. And I think instead of that then becoming like, what does it say about me and us and what have our church friends find out? But just going like, hey, this is how this goes. They're just people. And I think for me, that's going to be tricky.

1:07:40Dave Barnes:You would say on paper about anybody else, that's healthy. You would go, yeah. If someone came to you with the same scenario, you should not let that affect you the way that that's affecting you. It's not about you. Britta brought in a phrase to our whole family system with kids and each other recently. I don't know where she got it. And it gets thrown out now where it's like, oh, yep. She says Q-tip, which is quit taking it personally. and it's like you're q-tipping like you just q-tip it like you you're making this thing about you it's not about you yeah and the way that the child's responding the way that i'm responding the way that i like the way that we're trying to make this decision the way that we interacted about that thought is like you're making this thing about you it doesn't need to be about you and that is the like when you watch people in their 60s and 70s where you go you're still unable to not let this be an identity assault you go that so that's where like right now like i i want to be right now practicing those things so that when you're 35 that's right that's right that and again i all of us and i've i've shared less with you dave because you don't you know worship with us john doesn't really i've differentiated but john and i had lunch a few months ago and we're talking about it i mean we have teenage pre-teen girls and there's there's realities about you know that's that's new challenges for us and i've got i've got the greatest 12 year old girl on the planet and i mean that she is unbelievable and they're pre-teen hormonal things that we're dealing with for the first time but i'm like i also have to step back it's so good to step back and go as intense as these moments can feel right now that i then extrapolate out in 20 years like this is how it's always going to be or what about this yeah that to go we've got great kids yeah like and i know that may always be true and there will be things that rip our heart out and there will be new layers and new developments of things that are bigger threats to my identity but like like last week you guys i'm just gonna brag on her she's going on a on a trip with our youth group that's going to serve a special needs camp in missouri called camp barnabas and they go and serve the week and they got it they're supposed to like raise some money and pay for their own way to go so to like raise them up money you can write support letters well she decided to host a like camp for little girls like four five and six year olds called camp little lambs that she did with her cousin and they had 10 little five and six year old girls come they memorized psalm 23 they did all these like they did all these like lamb activities they made laminade like they were just doing they did all this stuff that was all her and she it was like 120 bucks a kid or something all day last week every day last week and she raised all the money to pay for her camp and made like$400.

1:10:28Dave Barnes:Wow. So she was like, she wanted to like love on little girls and teach them Psalm 23 to raise money to go serve at a special needs camp. I'm like, yeah, we, we've got great kids. Like, let's just pause for a second and go, you know, so I can get really wrapped around axles of interactions and moments and it's all coming out. Like, no, no, like we're, we're good. Yeah. We're just faithful. He, we're playing the long game one hour at a time.

1:10:52Elliott Cherry:Yeah. She's doing great. Well, again, I feel like so much of that for me gets wrapped up in what it says about me, not actually how the kids are doing. Totally. Because if I really gauge it, they're right where they should be. They're right where they should be. But if I gauge it with what that says about me and my parenting or my expectations as a father or how they're, that's a whole other. So what do you think it says about me that that's what she did last week? What do you think that says? I would say despite the parents.

1:11:17Jon McLaughlin:I would say it's amazing that kids, like a dandelion through the sidewalk.

1:11:23Dave Barnes:you know, they still find the light. Well, it was funny because the day before the camp, she was really anxious about something. And I'm like, I tried to sit her down the night before and was talking to her about Psalm 23. And then the Lord is my shepherd. Like you have everything you need. You don't like, sweetie, you're going to go teach these kids about how calming it is to be with Jesus. Like it's what you want. And you are having an anxious moment right now. And I was trying to give it to her. And she was like, dad, don't give me the Jesus stuff right now. Like, don't like, don't like, I was like, sweetie, I literally, it was a sweet moment because I was like, sweetie, do you know how every Saturday I have to re-believe when I'm about to go teach people like it is for you that you would go yeah she was like don't do the Jesus thing I'm like yeah yeah okay yeah

1:12:03Elliott Cherry:I'm sorry I played I was like when I grabbed my guitar and the kids were like please not now please don't I'm begging you it's like dad not the Jesus stuff I got real problems I gotta camp I'm running tomorrow you're like nailing it yeah well dude once again you are a legend for hanging thank you for talk about time flying did we just get started the time

1:12:23Dave Barnes:Quick question. If we were just right now, because I know it always, I'm always surprised. What are you going to call the episode? Who decides that?

1:12:31Jon McLaughlin:Jason, producer Jason. He will go through and give us, he'll email us like three options. Do I get a say? And then we'll pick. No, no. Okay. That's, that's a power you leave at the door here.

1:12:42Dave Barnes:We wield it. Well, do you have, do you have an idea? No, no, no. I just, I didn't know like what you felt like stuck out. Wimbledon and centers. Wimbledon and centers. Yeah.

1:12:50Elliott Cherry:centers because of Wimbledon or at Wimbledon. Centers at Wimbledon.

1:12:55Dave Barnes:Yeah. I also like I'll just plan on kind of this time next year coming back. That's great. Yeah. That's great. This is typically when the law kind of hits. Do we have dadville like swag? Oh brother. Do we? Yeah. Yeah. I got a hat but that was a while ago. Do we have something new? You got the shirt right? Yeah. No. I never got a shirt. You never got the shirt. We have men's underwear.

1:13:16Elliott Cherry:We have what's the. How do you feel about fur? Thank you for clarifying those men's, not like women's or children. Because that would be, can you imagine? Yeah, thank you for, yeah. Because one word's on the front, one's on the back. We just didn't want to. Dadville. Bill on the back.

1:13:35Jon McLaughlin:Dadville.

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