Dare to ask every question - Amelia Nash

0:11I think that I spent a large part of the things that I do in my upbringing and into my young adulthood, like being so concerned about other people and what other people think. And that's where a lot of that people pleasing comes from. Getting to a point now in my life where it's like life is just too short. There's bigger fish to fry. There's so many of the things that we obsess over and so many of the things that we're like, oh, like, what if? And yeah, I can apply for a thing and then sit in my living room ransacked with worry and never move forward until I hear back. Or I can just let it go.

0:50I'm going to apply for this thing. And now I have no control over it. So what's the point in worrying? What's the point in getting anxious over this? I'm just going to let it go and then I'm going to move on to the next thing.

1:05Amelia Nash:Welcome to the Daring Creativity Podcast, a show about daring to forever explore creativity that isn't about chasing shiny perfection. It's about showing up with all your doubts and imperfections and making them count. It's about becoming more of who you already are. My name is Raleigh Malinic. I'm a designer, author and eternally curious human being. I'm talking to a broad range of guests who share their stories of small actions that inspired lifetime discoveries, taking one step towards the thing that made them feel most alive. Let me begin this episode with a question. Are you ready to discover what happens when you dare to create?

1:51Amelia Nash:Today I'm talking with Amelia Nash, a Canadian-born New York City-based designer, brand strategist and creative director with experience of crafting bold, sustainable brands that inspire, educate and connect. She's driven by analytical insight. She runs in-depth data analysis to transform ideas into unforgettable visual narratives. In our conversation, we talk about her fearless approach to opportunity, consistently leaving a situation where she felt capped in growth and maintaining an attitude of confetti in the wind, throwing out applications and ideas to see what lands. She demonstrates how curiosity and courage can create unexpected opportunities.

2:32Amelia Nash:Now she's also working as a brand and marketing manager at the SVA's Masters in Branding program and as a senior staff writer for Print Magazine. She embodies the power of asking questions, embracing change and refusing to settle for work that doesn't challenge her to grow.

2:54hey amelia how you doing welcome to the show thank you thank you for having me i'm doing well

2:59Amelia Nash:how are you fantastic stuff wow excited to speak to you about a topic of daring creativity on topic of daring because i know you and i know that your journey into what you do how you do it and where you go involved this is non-linear like in a way that you put me to shame because my journey is non-linear, whereas yours is like, oh my God, how? What? So for those who may know ahead of you, tell us about yourself, what you do, who you are, and let's unpick it a bit. Yeah, my journey is totally non-linear. It's not even on the same line of the same page on the same book. It's truly confetti in the wind.

3:39But for those that don't know me, hello, I'm Amelia Nash, and I'm from a very small town in Canada in the Shishwaps called Salmon Arm. I'm currently living and working in New York City as a brand strategist and consultant as well as a design designer freelance on the side and my full-time gig is as the brand and marketing manager at the School of Visual Arts Mashes in Branding program and I am also a senior staff writer for Print Magazine.

4:12Amelia Nash:You mentioned something amazing that I liked as an expression. We said there's like a confetti in the wind. I always believe, and this is based on the conversation I have on this show, that people are like confetti in the wind. They flew out. They sometimes don't even know. Like when someone says, hey, you're going to fly out. Do you know where you're going? No idea. I'm not sure where I'm landing. We all land in a place where we should be because where you are today, did you ever want it to be in this place? Originally, no. I am endlessly curious and very quickly and easily bored. So growing up, I think what I wanted to be as a kid and thinking about my future changed probably a hundred times.

4:55I graduated high school and I think like many 18 year olds didn't have a clue what I wanted to do or where I wanted to be so I took a year off and went and lived in France and I didn't know it at the time but that was actually my first introduction into graphic design because a friend of the family was a graphic designer. And I remember seeing her giant iMac on her desk and she was explaining to me what she did. I remember thinking, oh, that's really cool. But I didn't connect any dots or anything like that. I just like, oh, this is neat. I came home and at that time we had moved and I was now living in Edmonton.

5:38And I started at the University of Alberta with a dual major in French translation and theater. So I thought, okay, well, I'll either be a drama teacher or I will be a translator for French. And it seems so ridiculous now saying it out loud and thinking about it because it was just so sporadic. It's so sporadic. I don't understand how I thought putting those two things together made any sense but I was just interested in them both and so I thought well I'll just pursue both. I want to ask you about France because 18 year old you thinking France

6:22Amelia Nash:for a year did you have any connections or did you go blind? It was through a rotary exchange program and because I'm Canadian we learn French in school like we have the dual languages French and English So I had studied French. I was in French immersion since grade eight. So I did know French, but it was not any level of fluency. I really became fluent and bilingual in French as I lived in France. and I have a really weird dialect because I learned Quebecoise, like Canadian French, but had more opportunity speaking France French. So, yes, so I knew a little bit, but I ended up going there through a rotary exchange program and I was supposed to do my first year of university there, but there was a mess up with the paperwork.

7:14So I ended up just traveling around.

7:17Amelia Nash:I don't know much about French sort of design scene. Try and make the numbers. Elite 2000s, was that like that? So I'm trying to work out like what was the influences because you looked at it, you thought that looks interesting and carried on. But did you have any sort of influences speaking different language, thinking differently? Like how did that inspire you? Yeah, the reason why I chose France was because I had learned French in school. And so for me, I was like, well, I want to continue leveling up in French. So France just made sense. And that was really the reason why I wanted to go to France was just to expand my knowledge in the language that I had learned.

7:56And it's funny because you would think that maybe, yes, Art Nouveau or architecture or anything like that would have been the reason. But again, at the time, I didn't have an understanding in design as career, in creativity as career. I just thought, oh, I'm going to go there and learn more of the language. and going there absolutely I think was a really formative year in who I became as an adult. How can you not go to France and learn everything you need to learn about architecture and design and museums and art galleries and some of the artistic periods of those times and again I don't think I really realized all of that at the time but I definitely brought a lot of that back with

8:48Amelia Nash:me so was it the French and then carrying on doing a degree to be a French translator makes sense but theater how do we get to theater what how yeah theater was because I was just a theater kid in school. I did drama again from grade eight through 12. So it was just, I just thought, okay, if French translation doesn't work out, like what's a career I could see myself doing? And again, I liked drama. I liked the theatrics and I liked teaching. So I just thought, oh, drama teacher. And it's funny because all of these things that I am involved in absolutely do have a sense of creativity within them.

9:33I was always a creative kid. My mom is very artistic and so she always had us doing kind of arts and crafts. And I was the kid who would design the binder covers and create my own stickers and do all that kind of stuff. So there's always been, I think, a glimmer of creativity in everything that I pursue, whether I know it at the time or not. But that was the reason why I wanted to do drama because like theater and the scenes and the set pieces and everything just seemed really cool.

10:01Amelia Nash:I like that you said if the French translation doesn't work out the theatre will work out. All right so there you can you can get into my brain as a disillusioned 18 year old thinking if working for the UN as a translator doesn't work out theatre that's the one. Yeah the UN might not work out but it definitely did the theatre that would be the safe choice but it sounds like there was not too much of a pushback from the family from the parents like you were kind of left to your own devices. I guess in that sense My parents were fortunately quite encouraging and liberal of what I wanted to be as long as I went to school because they're both teachers.

10:42And my dad is actually a city planner. So my stepfather and my mother are both teachers. And so they were both very strict with education. As long as I went to school and got an education, I don't know if they really cared all too much like what exactly. i ended up doing as long as i got an education they both wanted me to be a teacher of course so maybe that's why being a drama teacher was okay on their checklist of things that i could be was because teaching in any form they both aligned with wow okay that's interesting because like

11:15Amelia Nash:i know you said they were liberal but as long as you were in school that was okay sort of interesting juxtaposition so yeah so the theater didn't work out did it expect you're about to do some other stuff so well how do we get from now some from french and theater to you wanting to be a marine biologist gosh yes okay so while i was so while i was in france my mother my stepfather my siblings moved to edmonton alberta so that's the next province over. And so when I came home from France, I came back to Edmonton. And that's where I that's what I did my first year of university, the French, the drama that didn't work out.

12:00So I think I lasted like two semesters and was like, this is not for me. So I dropped out of school and was trying to float around, figure out what I wanted to do. And my stepdad recommended that I go check out the open house at NAIT, which is like a technical institution in Edmonton. So I went to that and I was wandering around and I came across graphic communications program and I fell in love with it. I fell in love with it because it was doing art on a computer and I just thought it was the coolest thing in the world. So I ended up doing that, got my certificate and then ended up out of graduation working at an architecture firm.

12:42And I was their only designer. I was an in-house designer. I did everything and it was such a good learning opportunity. And I think it really got me into, that was my first foray into branding because I had to do everything from business cards to their website. I ended up doing a rebrand for the company as well and updating their logo, how to do exterior signage. So that was really cool. So I liked the work that I was doing, but I did not like where I was working. And so it was about probably three or four years later that I wanted to move on to different things. And so I applied for every design job under the sun in Edmonton and got nowhere.

13:26Like nobody, no interviews, nobody was interested in hiring me, nothing. And what I came to realize, because Edmonton's a bit of a smaller City, too, is that my certificate kept being beat out by diplomas and degrees. And so it was at that point in my life, I was 24, I thought, OK, what am I going to do next? I can go back to school and get my design degree or I can do something different, do something else. And the only other thing that I was interested in doing at that time was marine biology. I was really good at biology as a kid into university. I love the ocean. It's a huge passion of mine is ocean conservation.

14:14So I was like, well, I can take this passion that I enjoy doing and go be a marine biologist. I literally applied for this design program and had submitted some applications to Dalhousie University, which is in Halifax, Canada, which is on the east coast of Canada. And I was like, okay, I'm going to just submit these things and I'm going to figure this out. And what I did is I had submitted these applications and I dropped off my portfolio at the University of Alberta for their bachelor of design program on my way to the airport because I was heading to Thailand for a month to backpack with a friend so I literally just was like again confetti to the wind I was like I'm going to throw these options out I'm going to see what lands I'm trying to think which part

15:03Amelia Nash:which sort of which dare to is yours in this episode because I think it's there to explore there to be curious there to not overthink it maybe or just basically don't overthink it I can't I'm not even there to keep it simple because I like that openness. Because you said you work for an architecture firm and you were the only designer and you did quite a lot of different things. And then you said a few years later, I was 24. I'm like, wait a minute. So you're 20 odd, 20 years, not 20 odd years. And you're working as the only designer. You don't really have that much prior experience. You've got pretty much open canvas or blank canvas.

15:42Amelia Nash:Do this, do that. I'm not sure we should talk about how good was the first website you designed for the company. Oh, it was trash. It was trash. I can confirm it was not good. Dare to give it a go. Dare to say fuck it. Yeah. I was kind of amazed that you said, I was doing this thing, but I didn't enjoy where I was working. Normally people don't quit because of the work. They quit because of the environment, because you can always find a way to make the work enjoyable. so how was that as an experience because you got your opportunity to try everything to be excited and it sounded like you burned those matches really quickly because that's the beginning of a career but a few years later you're like actually i really like the ocean a bit more so with the job what really happened yeah that's a really good question i think it was again that i'm because I'm so curious and I like to do a lot of things and I like to do a lot of things well and I really throw my entire self into everything that I do I don't like to I don't like to half-ass things and I don't like to just dip a toe in I'm like if I'm gonna do this thing I'm gonna do it and then we'll see what happens and I think it got to a point where working for the architecture firm I was really looking to grow.

17:03I was really looking to do more and see how I could like level up and learn more there. But I had met my cap of what was possible at that place. And there were some conversations where essentially I was told that I talked too much, that I asked too many questions, and I was really just there to produce what they needed. So that was really the point where I'm like, okay, well, I can stay here and continue to do this cyclical design work of annual trade shows and signage and doing the things that I've already been doing for four years or I can go down a different path. And I think the marine biology was by Hail Mary where I was really hurt and I was really upset that was the ending of that job experience and then i was also frustrated that i couldn't find any other design work so i was like well i just must be like the shittiest designer on the planet then because what else can i do so marine biology was something i enjoyed as a passion and was like

18:13Amelia Nash:well okay i'll go try this so you said quite a few important things you said before you were looking for space to grow and that space wasn't coming the space wasn't there and with you being taught you speak too much some people are just grumpy right but you said one important thing you said i asked too many questions that's the part of when you want to grow when you're willing to grow that curiosity comes in because asking question is gold it's free like you can never run out you can never have too many questions and too many answers there's always something more to find out and that to me goes naturally hand in hand with growth dare to ask a question dare to ask as many questions and in your case you don't have to regret asking those questions because you ask too many questions to the point you realize i've answered my own questions it's a way out yeah is that door i that's the one way i think i've at least since early high school i've lived my life where I don't want any regrets.

19:18I don't want to get to the end of my life and have any regrets about, oh, I wish I would have done that thing or, oh, I wish I would have tried that or, oh, I wish I would have just sent that email or whatever. And that's just the way that I work where, yeah, I'm going to send out an email. I'm going to send out an application. I'm going to try this thing. I'm going to do that. Probably won't work out. I think 80 % of the The things probably more that I've done in my life haven't worked out, but I can confidently say that at least I tried.

19:51Amelia Nash:That's a perfect segue because we can take us back to the airport when you go to Thailand. Because I wanted to ask you, how did you fill that time between taking the first step of the action and then waiting for the outcome? Because sometimes that's relying on somebody else, right? That there's the time and sometimes you have to wait. You got two options. You can either eat yourself alive waiting or you can forget about it and just carry on. And I believe that's exactly what you did when you applied for things. You went to Thailand with no signal. That's one way to actually not get worried about what might be.

20:28Amelia Nash:Avoidance. So take us to Thailand and what happened? Okay. So literally on the portfolio was the last step of this application to the University of Alberta Bachelor of Design program. So I was on my way to the airport. I dropped off my portfolio. And at the time, portfolios were still major, major like physical pieces. So I had a physical portfolio with physical works in it. and I remember that I walked up the stairs to this room where we had to drop off our portfolios and I opened the door and I signed in and I went to give my portfolio and I remember seeing hundreds of portfolios in this room and I remember thinking well okay then at least I tried so I honestly did not have high hopes that I was going to get into this program because again with my experience at this architecture firm, I thought that I was just a shit designer.

21:26I thought I was like the worst designer. So I was like, okay, well, I'm not going to get this. That's okay. I'm just not going to worry about it. There's nothing I can do. And then I went to Thailand and Thailand was just a holiday. It was a month of backpacking around the country with one of my really good friends from high school. And we didn't have service really at all. There was a good chunk of the trip where we were in some national park that didn't even have like electricity so it was just literally a month of I'm not going to worry about it and when I get back I'll deal with what I deal with because the timeline worked out as such that when I returned home is when I was supposed to hear about acceptance into this design program or not

22:12Amelia Nash:I think there was something about portfolios those fake leather bound cardboard pieces that on the outside they were quite neutral because you can have 50 designers with their cases unless they had some snazzy stickers on it everyone was equal like it was actually in a way quite anonymous like your creativity your genius was still bottled in like it was still hidden and behind the sleeves and then somebody else got to validate it so you didn't feel necessarily unless you told yourself that narrative that you are the worst designer because somebody who looked cool with their cool portfolio might have been totally rubbish but we didn't really we didn't call the news so i understand that from your experience from architecture firm before you were the worst designer in the room but that was just a narrative you invented right because that's how you felt and you didn't really you didn't really have a sort of external validation from anybody else did you i don't know because again i was the only designer at the firm and i had started working at that firm right out of graduating from the graphic communications program.

23:15So I did, I had a very limited experience. So this narrative for sure, I built in my own head just from my limited experience working for one firm and seeing my other designer friends getting jobs and then applying for the same jobs they were applying for, but not getting even interviewed for them. And so that I think is what led me to build up this narrative of my head where, oh, I just must be a trash designer because nobody wants to hire me. All I can do is get an in-house gig for an architecture firm that doesn't even want me to really design. They just want me to produce.

23:51We'll be back after a quick break.

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24:41Amelia Nash:two questions maybe more packaged in one so what did you put in your portfolio and what did you do for your portfolio to become better did you do self-initiated work did you work on your craft and did you try to improve or were you more sort of preoccupied getting a job and hoping to grow in a job yeah i didn't do any upgrading to my portfolio which now in hindsight i probably should have, but I included the work from my NAIT program. So the program, the graphic communications program that I did, I included work from that program. And I also included work that I had done at the U of A previously, because my first year of post-secondary was at the U of A doing French and theater.

25:31But just by chance, just by happenstance, I'd actually taken the fundamental art and design courses just for fun. And I did really well in design. I really liked it. But still, again, at that point, I didn't think that was a career, really. And so I included some of those projects as well. So I had projects from my previous design courses at the U of A and then the projects that I had completed at NAIT. That was my portfolio. I spent no time doing fashion projects. I spent no time upgrading my portfolio. I just put it together and submitted it.

26:08Amelia Nash:So you came back from Thailand, you submitted two applications, you had no signal, you arrived, and then what happened? And then I got a letter from the University of Alberta saying, congratulations, we've accepted you into the Bachelor of Design program, which was amazing and made me feel okay maybe I'm not as trash as I think I am and then an even bigger bonus was the program is technically five years the first year you have to do the fundamental courses before you can apply into a visual communication design stream or a industrial design stream but because I had already done all the fundamentals my first year I was able just to go straight into the visual communication design and start my first of the four years to get my degree oh fabo well at least you saved yourself a year so i saved myself a year just confetti in the wind so there you go confetti in the wind so the marine biology never happened you started doing graphic design then you as you would say confetti in the wind you did all sorts of different things graduated did work freelance work all the way to the point where you find yourself in the middle of the pandemic sat in Edmonton thinking is this it is this what life is you ask yourself the next set of questions for you to grow and that brought you to New York where you are now.

27:42So it's funny because that journey after the U of A to New York was actually identical to my journey from Nate to the U of A. So I graduated from the U of A and then same thing right after graduation I got into an in-house design job at an insurance company and I was part of their marketing team. So I was a graphic designer for the marketing department of this major insurance corporation. And same thing, a couple of years went by and again, I was told that I asked too many questions or I pushed back on things. And it's the same conversations, the same conversations were happening where, again, I was happy with the work that I was doing, but I was not happy with where I was working and not happy that I couldn't, I felt like I couldn't grow.