Dare to let go of who you used to be - Meera Lee Patel

0:11Learn to let go has been my journey over the last five years since becoming a mother. And honestly, being forced to let go of the person that I was, even though I was not ready to let that person go, I still wanted to be that person. I will say, especially in terms of creativity and creative work, letting go of the very large part of me in being critical under the guise of making myself better. I changed that person into somebody who is kinder and supportive. And this is the first time in my life that I've approached myself in that way.

0:59Welcome to the Daring Creativity Podcast, a show about daring to forever explore creativity that isn't about chasing shiny perfection. It's about showing up with all your doubts and imperfections and making them count, becoming more of who you already are. My name is Radim Malinich. I'm a designer, author, and eternally curious human being. I'm talking to a broad range of guests who share their stories of small actions that inspired lifetime discoveries, taking one step towards the thing that made them feel most alive. Let me begin this episode with a question. Are you ready to discover what happens when you dare to create?

1:48My guest today is an author and artist, Meera Lee Patel, who is known for her best-selling journal, Start Where You Are, a newsletter, Dear Somebody. Our conversation touches on every aspect of what it's like to be a creative human in search of artistic expression. Mira shared with me her journey from seeking external validation to discover an inner acceptance through journaling and creativity. How becoming a mother forced her to let go of old identities and embrace new versions of herself. This conversation explores themes of imposter syndrome, the entrepreneurial spirit inherited from immigrant parents and finding creative fulfillment in life's unexpected moments how to let go to find freedom and compassion it's my pleasure to share with you my conversation with Meera Lee Patel

2:53Hey, Mira, it's great to have you on the show. How are you doing today? I am great. It's wonderful to be here. Thank you for having me. I've been getting your newsletter called Dear Somebody for the last six years. And it's a wonderful body of work that seems to be evolving. It's growing. It's changing colors and shapes. And I'm excited for the release of your new book. So if somebody hasn't heard of Mira Khalipatel, how would you introduce yourself? I would say I am a self-taught author and artist. I am primarily concerned with writing an illustrating book. And all of my work, whether it's my journals, my illustrated essays, or what I'm just getting into, which is pictures book and children's literature, it is all concerned with discovering and holding on to your sense of self.

3:50I am very interested in helping other people and along the way myself become more connected to who I am and my place in the world. In your newsletters, you always say, a year from now, here are five things from this week I'd like to remember. what are the things that you've learned on a discovery of sense of self that have been a revelation for you so far oh wow what a first of all what a wonderful question and i can't believe that you've been reading dear somebody for six years because i think like you mentioned before we started recording it's been through so many iterations that has changed so many times i guess every time that i've changed and it's amazing to look back and see all the different versions But if I had to think about things that I've learned, I'd say that the one that keeps coming to the forefront of my mind right now is that you cannot escape yourself.

4:51So everything that you want to accomplish, all the people that you want to be, they all start with the person you are now. And that means having to look at yourself, having to listen to yourself and having to accept yourself and who you are in this moment, if you ever hope to grow and become more. I think that's the one that keeps coming back to me over and over again is this is who I am now. So where do I go from here? what was the discovery of your self that prompted even that realization that this is me i can't escape myself i'm trying to get the sense of myself was there a trigger was there something that started it i don't know if there was any one trigger rather it was a series of smaller reminders throughout my life.

5:46The fact that no matter what accomplishment I had achieved or where I was or who I met, there was always this tug that it wasn't enough. And I think that's because for most of my life, I have been seeking approval and validation outside of myself. And so no matter what I was able to do or who I was able to please, I wasn't able to feel satisfaction or true joy because I had not accepted or this might sound like too much, but I had not really learned how to love myself. And that was a realization that took a really long time to get to. And that's really where the real work began, right? Career, family, all of that stripped away.

6:39Like the real work was just me in a room on my own and having to deal with myself. Those sort of feelings of not being enough often are formed through our childhood, through influence of parenting. And we unknowingly sort of take it along with us into our adulthood and then find ourselves working in solitude, endless hours of the day and night, only to realize that I still need to add more. there's still a little bit element of having work this out maybe this should be better only to realize that no one really cares it's about the expression that no this is my work and whatever i'm putting out in the world it should be enough it should be good enough like i've spent time on this it's an idea that's been around for a while so it's an interesting story that makes me think was there any other way of self-discovery that helped you to sort of get to a place where now enough is defined?

7:36Well, you know, this kind of work is what I was invested in, which is actually in 2015, my first journal, Start Where You Are, came out. And for the last 10 years, people have asked me, what caused you to write this journal? What caused you to make this book? And it's because this is the work that I was doing and it's the work that I needed. And I've released several journals since then over the past decade, and they have all come from me needing that work in that moment in time. So the journey of self-exploration, of self-reflection, of getting to know myself is one that I have embarked on my own, but I've been very lucky to be able to kind of chronicle that work in book form and put it out into the world in the hopes that I might help somebody else.

8:26Your journaling has manifested itself in a publishing contract. and what I want to know is what was the experience of actually sharing what potentially could be quite personal with the world at large? Okay, so there is one thing, which is that I published my first book about two years before I left my job. So Start Where You Are came out in 2015, and I was able to leave my job in 2017 while I was working on my next two books. when I published Start Where You Are, it was incredibly vulnerable and also incredibly exciting. I think I felt validated that this type of internal work, that a publishing company could see it as valuable and as something that could be commercially successful.

9:21So there were a lot of different forms of validation, especially for me, because I am self-taught. And that self-taught label, I think, has always felt like a bit of a chip on my shoulder for me. So I felt an immense amount of gratitude. I also, a lot of imposter syndrome, a lot of, do I deserve this? Have I earned it? Did I get lucky? Is the work truly valuable or is it luck? There was a lot of that in it and the imposter syndrome followed me for quite a while. I would say for the next five, six, seven years. I'll even say until I had children because when I had children, I was just too tired to carry the imposter syndrome.

10:11I don't think it left. I was just too tired to hang on to it. And so I had to let it go. But that did follow me for a while. And I think a lot of creatives deal with the imposter syndrome and not quite being able to see themselves and their worth the way other people do. Do you remember the first time you walked in a bookstore and saw your book on sale? Was that a peak of buster syndrome or was that a bit of a relief going, this chapter is finally closed and I can move on. I do remember that. And I have to say, it didn't shed the imposter syndrome. But in those moments when I saw my books in bookstores, in real bookstores that I had always visited, it was just pure joy, excitement, pride.

10:58It was all the good things. Yeah. What is really interesting what you said about your book is that it was validating that there was an interest in the book. There was a commercial success for the book. and that people resonated with what you were ultimately sharing with the world. Were you prepared for what was coming next, like for the wave of feedback and stories and interactions? We'll be back after a quick break. This episode is brought to you by Lux Coffee Co., the first creative speciality coffee company building a platform to shine a light on emerging global talent with a mission to make a positive impact on a creative industry and beyond.

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12:12I was not. And I'll say one of the things that has been a, I don't know if you have this experience as well, but when you share a very honest and vulnerable part of yourself with, the world will open up to you. And so the part of this journey that I was really unprepared for were how many emails, messages, letters I would get from people sharing their personal journeys with me. And it was hugely humbling. It was really incredible that something I wrote in, in from my little bedroom in Brooklyn, New York could reach somebody in India, could reach somebody in Australia could reach somebody in London and that these people took the time and energy to write to me and share a little bit of their humanity with me.

13:08I was not prepared for that. And it was at times very overwhelming as well. And that is something that I had to learn how to respond to, how to set boundaries, and how to really just be bottom line grateful that somebody is choosing to open up to me did you find with the feedback that you've got and i'm assuming some of this could be quite heavy because obviously you're asking people to self-explore and i've not met anyone in the world who would be crystal clear diamond with no issues like we all have something some of us are in denial some of us are very much working on it so as you said you've got a process of like how potentially deal with this because you open basically i'm trying to find analogy of you open the door and there's a hurricane of information coming your way that feels partially unwanted because you're thinking i have pushed no this is a one-way traffic i push this out and it's coming to you so how did you create a system and how did you deal with it and did you even engage with some of the stuff that you try to help people or did you find yourself maybe there's a book form that just potentially does the work for me i cycled through a lot of different approaches i will say i felt very overwhelmed and very equipped to respond to some of the messages that i received and i think the important thing for me to remember first and foremost is that i'm not a licensed therapist and i did not want to do or say anything that could under any circumstances cause the recipient harm or pain.

14:53And so I had to come up with a system where I am acknowledging the person, where they are in their life, the emotions, whether it is pain, gratitude, whatever they're feeling. But I also had to learn to detect. I had to learn that I am not necessarily responsible for solving this person's predicament, that I am not the best person to tell them what to do. That is not my role. And that took quite a while to feel comfortable because I really wanted to express gratitude to all of my readers and for especially people who take the time to write to me. I didn't want them to feel forgotten. I didn't want them to feel that I did not read their message, I did not care.

15:44But at the same time, their safety and their well-being were more important than what they got of me. And so I had to make sure that in my response, that is what I was prioritizing, their well-being, not their image of me. It's beautifully said. I'm going to segue this from 2016, 2017, from that time, almost 10 years forward to today because you're getting ready to release your new book learn to let go and i feel like what you just said is a little bit of a sort of segue of learning to let go like how to do this and we're going to put some color and in between of the last sort of nine years but your new book learn to let go is again it's a journal for new beginning and what i want to know is where does the form of journaling and medium of books come into your life that has become such a important body of your work?

16:45I know this is two questions in one, but with the feeling of creating a new book, how this new book came about and how is it sort of connected to your love of books and making books? Yeah. Oh my gosh. I love this question because I love talking about my affinity for books? So I guess I'll answer that one first, which is that I did always want to be a writer. I was writing. It's a very cliche answer. I was always writing and drawing my own stories. I was always writing poetry. I was reading at an early age. I think that from a young age, I found an escape in books. I found an escape from my very tiny, very safe suburban life.

17:33I found an escape from being the only person of color in my school. I found an escape from being the only immigrant family that didn't belong in our town, from the bullying, from the feeling like an outcast. Books allowed me to travel without leaving my home. And they were a comfort. They were an escape. They were solace. They were friendship. And this affinity for books I've always carried. And I always knew whether it is my livelihood or not, I will be making books. The second part of your question, which is like, where do I get ideas for the things that I want to make? usually all of my books have come from a topic that i have been unable to let go of it's kind of like that that buddhist teaching which says the lesson will keep following you until you have learned it and for all of the adult books that i've made which they're all they all are on the themes of introspection and self-exploration these are all subjects that i have yet to master and they all crop up during different periods in my life and learn to let go has been my journey over the last five years since becoming a mother and honestly being forced to let go being forced to let go of the person that I was even though I was not ready to let that person go I still wanted to be that person.

19:09I still do. But she's gone. I cannot find her. Gets a little look. There's no room for her in this house. Learning to let go of not only the person I was, but the person I thought I would be, the parents I thought I would be, the artist I thought I would be. There's been a lot of that. And I will say, especially in terms of creativity and creative work, letting go of the very large part of me that finds pleasure in beating myself up, in being critical under the guise of making myself better, letting go of that person, learning how to change that person into somebody who is kinder and supportive and encouraging the way I want to parent my children into becoming better people.

20:01It's not through bullying. It's through encouragement and kindness and wisdom. And this is the first time in my life that I've approached myself in that way. So it's been a lot of letting go for me and a lot of growing and acceptance. I really love the answer because part of me wants to talk about the fact that you said i want to find that old person i'm looking for her i want but part of me thinks don't do that just let's go forward let's go forward because in one of your journals you talked about the fact that you've got commuting with your daughter and that commuting is taking a lot longer than you were originally anticipating and then you find yourself not stressed about the fact that it takes you longer but then you leaned into it and actually realized that you really reliving some of the really nice bits of your own childhood for your own view and i think when you said i'm looking for the old person you're finding somebody new all the time you're reliving of course you're reliving your childhood through the eyes of your children and you said oh i don't have a lot my day is shorter of course as any creative person would say i want my day to be as long as possible because you want to do it all the time but speaking from personal experience my day is totally different to two years three years ago five years ago it's totally changing it's changing all the time and the best thing that i've ever found was to actually lean into it lean into the change see what you can do with it and actually think about how long it takes to make something valuable but how beautiful it is to actually have the time to think about it in between so i just loved how you described that journey because you are someone who writes every day and the words that you put out there in just in the form of a newsletter and new books it just they just flourish they just paint stories so when you find yourself in that car driving your daughter back through the streets of St.

22:00Louis did you feel like there's a value in letting go did you feel like it's something that is actually nice to experience and cherish yes you hit the nail on the head, which is I say that I'm looking for the old me. And the truth of that is that I was not ready to let her go. I was forced to by the circumstances of my new life. And what I think what was so hard about letting her go was that I was not ready and I was not prepared for it. And also there was no time to mourn her or miss her or say goodbye, however trite that may sound. But you're right in that the only choice we have is to move forward.

22:47And so what I have learned about letting go is that it's not something you can just do. I can't, or at least I cannot just say, okay, I'm letting go of this. I'm just moving on. The first, letting go is a byproduct to acceptance. So that's what I've learned. My job is to accept where I am, who I am, what is happening right now. And the byproduct of that acceptance is that I will be able to let go. And so when I'm driving my daughter and grimacing that the commute to drive two kids off of school within five miles of my house is an hour and a half. and I'm mourning the loss of time on my shorter work day.

23:34I'm driving and I look at this kid in the back and she's falling asleep. She's got strawberry in her mouth. She didn't even finish chewing it and she's falling asleep now, so tired from school. We're gonna go pick up her sister and the sun's hitting her face and I just looked at her and I was like, man, this kid is so sweet and it's so quiet in this car. And I am, like you said, writing all this time. I'm writing in my head right now. I'm still doing my writing. It's just in a different form. And I felt such pride at being able to be in that moment that I wasn't missing the moment because I was too busy feeling frustrated and focusing on what I thought I had lost.

24:17And that was acceptance of where I am, being in the present, watching the sun through the windshield, looking forward to seeing my younger kid when I walked through the doors. And it brought me back to that feeling of being picked up by my dad from school, falling asleep in the back seat because you knew that someone who cared about you was behind the wheel and you were going to get home safely. And I thought, oh, My daughter's asleep because she feels safe. She feels calm. She feels relaxed because she knows mom's going to get her home. And I would not have had any of these thoughts or been able to write that story or even be in that moment.

25:01Even though I was in my life, I could have not been living my life because I was too focused on the past or what I was missing or what I thought I should have been able to do. And so that acceptance, it lets me be in the present. It ensures I'm not missing my own life. and what could what could i want more than that what you beautifully describe and is actually focusing on what you can control and let go of what you can't control because traffic's always going to happen the rain's going to always come there's always going to be elements we can't control but i think having that sort of internal piece and sort of processing it and go like right now i've got actually more time to think about the first draft of what i'm going to write and rewrite it in my head because the world of creativity especially when you're young and naive or i'm talking about the world at large you think that you should be making the stuff all the time you're thinking like hey i am i am creative therefore i should be creating only to realize that stepping away from the process and thinking about the process observing it prodding it like you know almost getting yourself ready for the creative process or for the moment of creativity can be more fulfilling because would you agree that with your daily journaling you are tuned into the world differently because you want to remember it you want to write it you analyze it differently rather than just a passing story that's happening fast i do think so when i think just like you're saying you have to live your life in order to make work and you need to live your life honestly in order to make honest work so the two go hand in hand you cannot just make work 24 7 you have to be in the world you have to let people in you have to take chances be uncomfortable all of that is part of the work of being an artist you can't leave that part out what is in the latest book that is the process of that self-discovery like what is the element that's been added that you wouldn't have thought of about 10 years ago?

27:08Oh, that's a really wonderful question. I don't know. I might have a disappointing answer because all of my work is propelled forward by the philosophy that the answers that we're looking for, the validation that we're seeking is already inside ourselves. So I don't know if there is any new principle that I am introducing in this latest release. I think what has changed is probably my expression, my use of language, my ability to create exercises and prompt that a wider audience can connect with and find useful. Probably also my curation of quote that, again, a wider audience will find to be encouraging and inspirational that will get them to actually pick up a pen and do the very cumbersome and often heavy work of sitting with themselves and talking to themselves.

28:15the principles behind the work are the same the philosophy is the same so i think perhaps just my execution as an artist and a writer is what's changed it wasn't disappointing answer at all you mentioned exercises and prompts are these exercises and prompt uh road tested do you do them within sort of group setting workshop setting or is it something that you actually work on yourself and then just you release it out there how are they validated how do you put them together? So they are all exercises and prompts that I use myself to unstick myself from situations that I don't know how to navigate to work through current dilemmas.

28:56So for this book about acceptance and new beginnings, I'm letting go. These are all the exercises that I used to move through this period in my life. And as for asking people to do the hard work of looking at themselves, I am always going to ask people to do that. And I think that might make me a difficult family member. It might make me a hard friend to have. But that is who I am. And that is who I will continue to be. but I have also learned to have boundaries and I have also learned to let people be responsible for themselves so if somebody is not interested in that work that's their choice that's not up to me and I feel no pressure or responsibility in forcing someone to do that so my job is to make the work that I believe can help somebody.

29:59I am very honest in that it might not be right for you, and that's okay with me because I don't think I'm right for everybody. So certainly everything I make is not going to be right for everybody. But I believe it can help. I believe my books will add an element of meaning to your life if you choose to let it. And then that's up to you. i make the work i gotta and then i have to let go of it right we work we learn that as artists over and over again it stops being yours after you release it absolutely especially when you say let go the fact is let go of the expectations because sometimes our expectations are way too high and our resilience isn't sometimes maybe often not much to those expectations and therefore we create this unhealthy equation where we think am i here to help someone because as you said when you release it and then somebody else's that's the best way of to get with the untethered and just go yeah it's out there it does its own thing and then we'll see what comes back because waiting on something to happen it will never happen whereas if you release it that's there so speaking of effects of books on people you mentioned that you read from a young age as a form of escapism an environment that you find yourself and i've been the only family that stood out being of different color having a suburban background what books do you remember reading and what's the feelings that you remember reading of those books i read a lot of lois lowry the giver, number the stars.

31:38And I think the feelings that I remember are of children holding a responsibility that was greater than themselves. And I think for me as a child, it made me feel that a child, someone as small as me, could make a difference, had value, and could oftentimes, times because our maybe ability as children is often underestimated, children can very often make a greater difference than grownups because they can get by with more, right? So I had that. Those books made a big impact on me. As a child, I read a lot of comics. I read a lot of Tintin. I read a lot of Asterix. I read a lot of Batman, RT comics, things like that, comic books my dad would bring me back from India.

32:37I loved simple stories with morals. I loved problem solving. I loved mysteries. And I also loved books like The Little Prince. I loved bigger stories, like worlds that you could escape into and stories that felt abstract and maybe you didn't know the meaning but something about it stuck with you i felt very drawn to i felt very drawn to stories like the little prince and i still am i admire that they grow with you and they change with you as you do i love that it was a proper eclectic mix there's a little prince and there's a bad man as a tintin but your access to books so you just mentioned your dad was bringing coming from india what did your parents do like what was their sort of relationship to creativity and how did that influence your world yeah i love this question because my parents are so funny so they both immigrated here in their late 20s my dad is a proper indian immigrant is an electrical engineer and my mom was a social worker and they were both creative in different ways.

33:48My dad's so handy. He can fix anything. He rewired our whole house like he always repaved the driveway. We would build things together and he was also creative in a way that he will dismiss which is in mathematics and physics and in a way that I have never been able to be creative. and my mom is my mom can sew she made my clothes she made my Halloween costume she knits she crochets she is very unbothered with crafting the right way she does it whatever way she likes she don't care necessarily what the end product looks like she just enjoys using her hands and And I think I've absorbed a lot of that from her, a lot of the DIY spirit and a lot of the let's just get started.

34:42And it doesn't matter about doing things the proper way or following the rules. What matters more is actually doing it. And I would definitely say that entrepreneurial spirit has come from my upbringing and of watching both parents just do stuff, not wait for the right time or the proper education or the right materials and certainly not waiting for enough money to get started on anything but just doing it and so I think that's really what lent me to starting my own business and making my own stuff and seeing if there was an audience out there and I'll never forget when I was still working my full-time job and I wanted to start working for myself as an artist.

35:29I have a little Etsy shop and I would write and illustrate these really odd books. I wish I had copies to send you. Maybe I will reprint and send them to you. But I made a book called The Rooster and Unicorn and it was a head to toe book. So on one side, you read it and you read the unicorn story and then you flip it upside down and you read it and sell them. And every time somebody was willing to buy one of these little$20 hamstone books, I was over the moon. And I will never get that amount of pride and joy. I've sold, Start Where You Are has sold over a million copies and that's incredible.

36:15But that feeling of sewing a book by myself and going somewhere in person and selling it, like it's unmatched. like that was really cool that was really cool yeah when you were talking about your mom you said she just did things in her own way and i think sounds like she never lost her child spirit when we are creative as children we've got no filter you can do whatever you want and then we start thinking am i fitting the right right mode am i doing something for the external validation and it must have been it's really great to hear that's what you got to see that's what influenced you and that's what ultimately made you start your own business and it does kind of feel like you did what she was doing just i'm making this and i don't care if it's right or wrong yeah thank you i feel like that's such a beautiful compliment that means a lot to me i want to be someone that just doesn't and i try to be and i want to model that for my girls you don't have to wait for the right moment you don't have to wait for the right person or the right tools you can just do it because the part that's going to make your art different from anybody else's is your brain and your heart and your hand and you already got those i think i read somewhere once that the best way to influence your children into doing something is to be actually the role model do it yourself show them how it's done and i've got a great story from this summer because my daughter has not only started her own shop she's nine she's launched her own shopify store she's got she's got ipad with over all she's taking card payments she's creating whole street because my wife's got equine therapy business as one of her businesses and you see this nine year old child and she's talking about branding she's designing merchandise and i'm like we live in a good breadcrumbs she's following them and in fact she's overtaking us she's like thinking about this stuff so i feel like we live in this juxtaposed world because i think our kids are picking up the real foundation of what could be and what is and put it together and then you open the front door the news and you go like how is this 2025 this feels like we are 1918 with 2025 to them jump together because it's just what's going on i totally agree i totally that's incredible about your daughter and i would love to know more about your wife's businesses too you guys seem like an incredibly hands-on creative family it's really amazing yeah i feel really proud of your daughter that's incredible yeah i mean she just runs with it and then we were kind of looking at sort of some sort of things that she does we're like that's our dna you can't you can't stop it and i think i just i was thinking like if she ever finds herself on a podcast in 20 years time talking about what she's doing if she ever says my parents didn't let me do whatever i wanted to do that'd be a big lie because she'd be just let her destroy the house do things all of the stuff i think we got good hindsight that we can do what some of our parents didn't do for us i think we can actually show that as there's other way there's potentially better way there's more empathetic way more compassionate way of like how we can be more emotionally intelligent and this is why I love that the books that you make and are so well received is actually it's showing to someone that potentially what they haven't found yet is actually available because sometimes it's that unfortunate ignorance that people don't know how to fix themselves people offset their sadness and unhappiness through anger and part of what seen in the world is obviously unresolved people keep more resolving themselves so would you ever say like with your books that there is hope that one day we can see a better world and i know i'm touching on some big topics here but like do you ever find yourself sort of creating a title and going maybe this is contributing to something that really should exist i think it's an interesting question.

40:22I'm not sure I have an answer. I do feel that I do believe I told you that I spent years feeling like an imposter. I don't I this I think the first time I've ever said this in my life. I don't feel like an imposter anymore. And that has been a hard one change. And I do believe that the work that I put out and the books that I make are making a difference. And in that way, I can say, yes, the world is becoming better because I have enough messages from enough people who are doing the work, who are interested in doing the work, and who are using the books to know themselves and become more open, more vulnerable, more active participants in their own life.

41:17They're not just letting the world happen to them. They are responding. They are taking action. They are apologizing. So I don't know how I could receive these messages and see people doing the work and say that the world is not getting better. It is getting better, but is it enough? I could just read the news and say, no, it's not enough. You know, it's not enough. I think in order for the world to truly become better, you have to work on yourself and you have to care about other people. You have to care about people who are not part of your life, who you will never meet, who will never directly infiltrate your life, who don't look like you, who don't act like you.

42:05You have to find it in you to care. And I think that is the only way maybe the world will get better if people care about other people. Beautifully said. So as a fellow of someone who writes books, makes books, does all sorts of of things himself i want to talk about a practical process if you allow me like how do you tackle the whole book project from planning sketches obviously i know you illustrate your books you create pretty much most of it yourself so how does a book project start and finish for you like how what is the process of making a book for you so it is different depending on the kind of book so i I make three kinds of books.